Help for a clericish build!

[Cyrus_Deluc]

::Disclaimer! I am a relatively inexperienced gamer who's only real experience with D&D has been with playing a Paladin::

Alright, so I'm playing in a campaign where I get to star as myself hurled into a D&D world. My stats were determined by my fellow players (some via some pretty silly tests, like marching around carrying a 300 lb gamer on my shoulders) and I was given 12 free skill points to account for random real-life abilities I have.

I was forced to take monk first level, because I'm an relatively (for an amateur) accomplished mixed martial artist and a mixed martial arts instructor - but I was allowed to take the 3.0 version, which gives me evasion at first level and removes the need for additional levels in monk.
At level 1 we were required to take feats that accurately reflect our real-life abilities, so I took the feats power attack and combat reflexes. I've also managed to get my hands on a chain shirt, a glaive, and a masterwork longsword so far in the game... Anyway, on to the stats!

My line is as follows:
STR: 15
DEX: 18
CON: 16
INT: 15
WIS: 12
CHA: 15

Now, here's where it gets to where I need some help: My party pretty desperately needs a cleric and I'm honestly the most ideal candidate for the job. I was initially going to go Paladin, because if I was thrust into a D&D world, I'd probably stick with what I know, however, Paladins never get the ability to raise dead, an ability our party would particularly like to get considering in-character, it's our necks on the line. Now, the thing is, my stat line doesn't seem optimal for a cleric at all, but I figure if I dump all my stat gains directly into wisdom, it won't make THAT big of a deal.

I was wondering if you guys had any recommendations for feats, and or other classes or prestige classes to multiclass to - I personally was thinking about taking a level or two of Paladin (3.0 if my DM allows it) as I believe it grants divine grace, an ability which will help make my evasion ability significantly more useful, along with a multitude of other nifty abilities.

Also, I was wondering if anyone might be able to recommend what two domains I should pick - as a cleric of Jesus Christ :smallbiggrin: I was given the option of picking any two domains I wanted - the only ones that really stand out to me as domains that would NOT fit are evil, trickery, and chaos. All the others are pretty much fair game.

Sorry if my thoughts seemed jumbled, I'm rather tired and just kinda slapped this post together. Thanks in advance, guys!

[Iku Rex]

Heh - sounds like a whacky campaign. :smallbiggrin:

Your character doesn't really work right now because he's not proficient with his weapons or armor (unless you got a pass because of some sort of real-world weapons training?). You also lose some monk abilities when wearing armor.

Feats: I'm surprised you didn't get Improved Grapple from the start. You should also look for Combat Expertise/Improved Trip.


Which books (game supplements) can be used to make characters?

Instead of cleric you could go with archivist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3) if you really want healing spells and raise dead. No domains, but it's based on Int, so you won't need a magic item to keep your Wisdom score high enough to cast higher level spells.

[Cyrus_Deluc]

I should've taken improved grapple! While I personally am more of a sprawl and brawler, I have enough jiujitsu and wrestling background having it. I'll probably look over the feats you mentioned and petition to get the things that actually best suit me - I don't think combat expertise is particularly my specialty... If you know a decent amount of the sport, I fit the Kid Yamamoto build pretty well. I'm only 5'6 and my standing weight is 143, but I fight at 155, where most of my opponents are cutting weight down to 170... I've found much success with the fight with *calculated* reckless abandon approach, hence, Power Attack. In any case, I'll definitely take your recommendations into consideration. :)

I in fact did get a pass in regards to my equipment - I've enough exposure with the glaive to use it confidently, I've been trained in traditional krabi krabong, AND I used to be very good friends with someone who worked at Medieval Times, and subsequently had logged many hours with some traditional European weaponry. I do not, however, have chain shirt proficiency... I guess that leaves me without armor until level 2.

In regards to the archivist, it seems perfect from a mechanics standpoint, but fluff-wise, I'm honestly more of a cleric. I, Mike, player of the character Mike, am planning on going to seminary school or missions after I finish college, so personally, it seems logical to pursue cleric/paladin.

I know for a fact that complete arcane and complete mage are banned, but other than that I think most things are free game. We do NOT have the PHBII, but I think someone might pick up a copy, we have most of the Complete Series (Divine, Adventurer, Warrior, and I'm sure some others). Psionics is also banned... Most of the PrCs are on a "let me see it and I'll decide whether or not I'll approve of it basis" - Mystic Theurge, Arcane Trickster, Shadowbane Inquisitor (or stalker, I can't remember), and several other PrCs have already been banned, so I'll have to approach my GM on a case-by-case basis.

[Chronos]

I was forced to take monk first level, because I'm an relatively (for an amateur) accomplished mixed martial artist and a mixed martial arts instructor - but I was allowed to take the 3.0 version, which gives me evasion at first level and removes the need for additional levels in monk.This should say something about just how badly the monk class sucks: Someone who is effectively a monk in real life still talks about being "forced" into the monk class, and about multiclassing out as soon as possible.

Back on topic, you might also check out the Favored Soul class. I don't know all of the details on it, but it's a Charisma-based divine class that casts spells spontaneously like a sorcerer.

Another note: If the mechanics of a class fits, don't worry about the flavor. You can always change your flavor to suit you. So you could say that your archivist character, for instance, is dedicated to careful study of the Word of God, and thus gains power from knowledge of holy writings instead of from quiet contemplation, but otherwise play him like a cleric. Mechanically, though, I just can't recommend cleric, with that wisdom. You said that Raise Dead is a priority: Well, even with putting all of your stat increases into Wis, you won't be able to cast it (or even use scrolls of it) until level 12. Given that you're starting at 1st, that sounds like a long ways away.

[Riffington]

:My stats were determined by my fellow players ...
My line is as follows:
STR: 15
DEX: 18
CON: 16
INT: 15
WIS: 12
CHA: 15
...I, Mike, player of the character Mike, am planning on going to seminary school or missions after I finish college


Given those attributes, you should probably take a few years first to do a Rhodes scholarship or play ball for the Mets - it'll help you get your message out later down the road.

[Riffington]

>Also, I was wondering if anyone might be able to recommend what two domains I should pick - as a cleric of Jesus Christ

You're going to run into a campaign issue with this, by the way. Your DM will basically have to agree to one of the following:
*That there is only one real deity in game, and that all clerics of other deities (good or evil) are actually pawns of Satan and derive their power from him.
*That in-game Christian doctrines are different than Earth Christian doctrines, and acknowledge the existence of multiple deities.
*That the in-game Christian doctrines are false.

[Cyrus_Deluc]

*That there is only one real deity in game, and that all clerics of other deities (good or evil) are actually pawns of Satan and derive their power from him.

I don't have a qualm with this one at all, so I don't see why my character wouldn't. There are plenty of people that are doing good things in the name of their God - legitimately noble things - but if it isn't for God, who is it for? For some reason I think theological debate isn't allowed, so I'll stop it right there, if you'd really like to hear MY personal analysis of the situation, feel free to drop me a PM.

As for the Rhodes/Mets comment... It's funny you should say that, I actually got a full ride to play baseball at Seton Hall University - one of my good friends growing up was Eric Duncan, a current Yankee prospect. Regardless, an injury that required two years of rehab and two school transfers later will take baseball out of the picture, quick. Beyond that, it's not like I would've ever made it out of the minors - I was pretty good, but when was the last time you heard of a 5'6 Chinese shortstop tearing up the league?

[Iku Rex]

If you really want to be a "proper" Christian holy man in the game, you need some "Vow feats" from Book of Exalted Deeds. (Which doesn't seem to be available.) Vow of Poverty gives you supernatural powers and bonus feats in return for giving up material riches, and Vow of Peace gives you bonuses when fighting to subdue rather than kill.

(Beating infidels to death and gathering vast amounts of wealth may make you a good Christian cleric historically speaking, but I doubt if that's what you have in mind. :smallwink: )

If Vows are an option I would suggest trying to convince the DM to let you get Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty as your first level feats, replacing those you have. Perhaps your character has a vision and is granted special powers (feats) by Yahweh - powers that make his current skills/feats seem unimportant and distant (no longer usable).

Chronos is right about the favored soul (Complete Divine). Now that I look at it, it works very well if you want faith-based divine spells without formal church ties and training. Best of all, the maximum spell level you can cast is based on Charisma.

[Cyrus_Deluc]

Curious, what does Sacred Vow do?

[Iku Rex]

It's a +2 perfection bonus to Diplomacy. It's a low-powered prerequisite feat. (So you can't get the other Vow feats too easily.)

[Nebo_]

I'd look at Favoured Soul, too. It is based on Wisdom and Charisma (For DCs and bonus spells, respectively), but if you keep your Wis equal to the highest level spell you can cast, there shouldn't be a problem.

[Iku Rex]

I'd look at Favoured Soul, too. It is based on Wisdom and Charisma (For DCs and bonus spells, respectively), but if you keep your Wis equal to the highest level spell you can cast, there shouldn't be a problem.Wis is only used for save DCs. The highest spell level you can cast depends on Charisma.

[CASTLEMIKE]

Consider using the retraining rules to lower other ability scores of choice to bump up Wisdom your primary casting attribute.

All other things being equial I prefer domains that provide the PC with more options. The Spell domain is a personal favorite because of the utility the Anyspells can provide. The Magic and Travel domains are nice but plenty of others that synergize with your style of play. Bonus domain Knowledge via the Clericist variant is also nice.

[Cyrus_Deluc]

Retraining rules?

[Wordmiser]

Don't go Cleric. Really.

You can roleplay the religion all you like, but to take those levels would be a poor choice--once you hit level 5, you'll have nowhere to go. And you aren't going to be raising the dead as a Cleric with that Wisdom, either.

Maybe you could do something like Monk 4/Paladin 4/Divine Crusader (Renewal Domain) X. This would give you Charisma-based Spellcasting (from a weak list, but it gives you access to the "Raise the Dead" idea).

Or, maybe, go Monk 2/Ranger 1/Egoist 3/Slayer X. See if you can use Kung-Fu Genius (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Kung_Fu_Genius,DC1) (or Carmendine Monk (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Carmendine_Monk,CV)) at first level. Take Practiced Manifester with your Bonus feat. This would get you access to Psionic Revivify at level 11 and some limited healing abilities a bit earlier.

[CASTLEMIKE]

Retraining rules?


PHBII page 196