The Grappling Wizard?

[BlackMage2549]

A while back, someone posted a link to a post where another had detailed how to make a wizard grappler more potent than a monk. I can't find this, and this makes me sad! Can someone help me out with a link, or the concept?

[AmberVael]

Is this what you're looking for? (http://bb.bbboy.net/thegamingden-viewthread?forum=1&thread=651)

All in all, I'm wholly surprised he didn't suggest the spell Fist of Stone (From Spell Compendium, page 94) with his build. Sure, it doesn't add to damage quite like Babau Slime does, but +6 to strength with a first level spell is pretty handy. That is something this build should pick up pretty quick.

[BlackMage2549]

Indeed it is! My thanks! I'd give you a cybercookie, but I appear to be out!

[Nebo_]

A while back, someone posted a link to a post where another had detailed how to make a wizard grappler more potent than a monk. I can't find this, and this makes me sad! Can someone help me out with a link, or the concept?

That really isn't difficult to do. Why do people always assume that monks are good at grappling?

[AmberVael]

That really isn't difficult to do. Why do people always assume that monks are good at grappling?

Flavor? I mean, grappling is sort of a form of unarmed combat- you don't think of people wrestling each other with swords in their hands, and monks are supposedly the best at beating people in melee without a weapon. It kind of fits together. Honestly, they probably should be the best at grappling, but at the same time, I could also argue that the monk should be a comparable class to all the others.
There's something up with WotC thinking that inborn weapons make you far more powerful...

[vrellum]

Flavor? I mean, grappling is sort of a form of unarmed combat- you don't think of people wrestling each other with swords in their hands, and monks are supposedly the best at beating people in melee without a weapon. It kind of fits together. Honestly, they probably should be the best at grappling, but at the same time, I could also argue that the monk should be a comparable class to all the others.
There's something up with WotC thinking that inborn weapons make you far more powerful...

Nah, the fighter should be the best at grappling (at least if that's what they decide to do). Armored men often did a lot of grappling and Europeans did a lot of grapple-training.

WOTC probably designed the game so that using a manufactured weapon is an advatange because people can only suspend disbelief so far.

To the OP, why would you want to make a grapple wizard? Grappling tends to be a slow and tedious process and it takes forever to end combats that way.

[Seffbasilisk]

Nah, the fighter should be the best at grappling (at least if that's what they decide to do). Armored men often did a lot of grappling and Europeans did a lot of grapple-training.

WOTC probably designed the game so that using a manufactured weapon is an advatange because people can only suspend disbelief so far.

To the OP, why would you want to make a grapple wizard? Grappling tends to be a slow and tedious process and it takes forever to end combats that way.

Additionally, you can only grapple some things (including things one size larger then you or smaller), and some things it's just not good to grapple.

IE: Oozes and spikey things.

[BlackMage2549]

To the OP, why would you want to make a grapple wizard? Grappling tends to be a slow and tedious process and it takes forever to end combats that way.

To show my DM with the sole purpose of making him laugh. I, personally, find the idea quite humorous that a d4 hit die would grapple ANYTHING. But, I know he'd get a kick out of it ;)

[Sir Giacomo]

A while back, someone posted a link to a post where another had detailed how to make a wizard grappler more potent than a monk....

Hi BlackMage,

sorry to spoil your fun :smallbiggrin:
Frank Trollman is awesome at maxing, but I daresay his build was meant ironically...
- octupus familiar is highly campaign-specific (as in: not possible in non-underwater campaigns, or 99.99% of all campaigns)
- you need time to buff up, time you do not have when you want to go grappling (and note the low DEX of said wizard meaning no won initiative)
- you need to succeed at a touch attack first before grappling, also quite bad for the lowly BAB wizard (in particular vs a monk with high touch AC)
- and even if somehow the wizard got together all the grappling bonuses (and note: all the magic boosts, the monk can get as well), the monk would still outgrapple him due to 1) more attacks 2) more damage 3) more spc attacks (stunning fist). Ah, and in case the wizard DOES win his grappling attempts (note: he only gets one/round until level 11, so no pinning), his hps melt like butter vs a monk or other non-caster using a light weapon in full attack in the grapple.

But otherwise, it is a fun thread!

- Giacomo

[F.L.]

Really, it probably wouldn't be too bad put into a gestalt, or on a gish build. However, it only works until your enemies have freedom of movement, then you're sunk, as you'll need a dispel magic to shut down the freedom of movement or ring for long enough to kill them. Alternately, just swap out your spells for something more sensible by that point.

[Sir Giacomo]

...yeah, but from lvl 11 or so, AMF is available...bye-bye freedom of movement addicts...not for the buffed wizard, though....:smallcool:

- Giacomo

[Lochar]

Ah, but that's when you take Archmage and get Mastery of Shaping. :P

[vrellum]

Blackmage2549

To show my DM with the sole purpose of making him laugh. I, personally, find the idea quite humorous that a d4 hit die would grapple ANYTHING. But, I know he'd get a kick out of it

fair enough


Ah, but that's when you take Archmage and get Mastery of Shaping. :P


I don't think that would work. After you are grappling, both combatants are in the same square.

[Sir Giacomo]

Well said, vrellum. The problem becomes quite substantial the moment the archmage encounters/grapples someone who also has an AMF up...:smallamused:

- Giacomo

[Ganurath]

Ah, but that's when you take Archmage and get Mastery of Shaping. :PNo, you go for Elemental Savant so you can get the Earth Elemental's burrow speed. Why bother maintaining the grapple when you can bury foes alive?