Civilization IV

[Eita]

Just got it, have yet to play it. Thoughts?

[kpenguin]

Its a good game.

[factotum]

Well, if you've already got it, why not play it and tell us YOUR thoughts? It's not like we can influence your purchase decision, and even if we tell you the game is crap (which it isn't) I would assume it's not going to stop you playing it!

Conversely, if what you're after is strategy advice on how to play the game, you should make that more clear...

[Eita]

Played it, and wow. That thing is addictive. Now then... Strategy tips would be nice.

[Wolfprint]

Click here (http://www.civfanatics.com).

Check out the War Academy and the Strategy Forums. Learn from the games played online. I know I did.

[Rutee]

Get Fall From Heaven 2 and forget about the main game?

...Orite, not the advice you're looking for... <.<

Also, don't touch Rhye's Mod of Unwinnability. The concept is awesome, but the execution..

[Flying Elephant]

Get Fall From Heaven 2 and forget about the main game?

Here's (http://kael.civfanatics.net/) a link, if you don't want to have to look for it.

[Om]

Speaking about CivIV (which is incidentally not as good as CivII) does anyone have any advise on unit promotions? In particular, just how powerful/useful is the "First Strike" given by the Drill series?

[Eita]

What I want to know is I how I start the space race. I built every component...

[Rutee]

Speaking about CivIV (which is incidentally not as good as CivII) does anyone have any advise on unit promotions? In particular, just how powerful/useful is the "First Strike" given by the Drill series?
It's both awesome and useless in the main game. First Strikes' best use is to let an already powerful unit win with few/no HP Losses(Say, a Riflemen that has City Raider III, Combat 2 against an entrenched Riflemen in a city) That aside, First Strikes are simply not that powerful. They won't affect a narrow combat as much as Combat training will, and it takes so many promotions to really, really make a high level unit that can reliably beat enemies of its own tech level that it's very difficult to do so. Drill has very limitted use in the main game.

One of the best places to use them, though? Longbowmen. Longbowmen are godlike city defenders (On a hill, they compare favorably to Riflemen, in terms of cost effectiveness) for multiple eras, very difficult to dislodge without massive numbers advantage until the introduction of Riflemen. So adding Drill will both reduce Collateral Damage (The bane of a defensive stack) and increase the number of enemies they can kill reliably (An entrenched Longbowmen, without City Garrison 1, will kill just about any in-period attacker without an enormous exp bonus on it).

In Fall From Heaven 2, where exp matters much more.. Drill is a very good thing to train in after the combat line (And March, which is <3). Seriously people, try it out! It's an interesting fantasy mod.


What I want to know is I how I start the space race. I built every component...
Check the Victory Conditions screen. It should show an option to View Spaceship, which you can assemble (You will have to. IT's a free action, don't worry XD) and launch from there.

[Eita]

How the hell do I assemble and launch the damned thing?

[Rutee]

...Nn. I don't have a Space Race game available at the moment. Let me see if I can job one with Advanced Start.

Aw, hell, can't start with World Projects, so I can't even begin with an Apollo Program, and i'ts getting late. I'll check tommorrow after work, if I have to make something. Do you have webspace you can upload the save file to?

[factotum]

How the hell do I assemble and launch the damned thing?

I thought that happened automatically when you built all the individual pieces. Are you sure you've done that? You don't even get to build some of them until you've researched the associated techs, so it's possible you've missed one.

[Om]

Cheers Rutee, I was never quite quite sure as to the usefulness of Drill... although the supremacy of Longbowmen has not passed unnoticed (:smallmad: ). I'll be sure to give Fall From Heaven a try soon. In my experience CivIV gets boring after a few games so it'll be nice to try something new

As an additional question, what's the danger point for nuclear warfare? Or is there still a global warming mechanism at all?


How the hell do I assemble and launch the damned thing?Each component is automatically added to the craft after completion. Once you've completed all the components you should be able to launch it from the Spaceship screen. I'm currently playing a BtS game and this spaceship screen automatically comes up whenever you build a component

[Timarvay]

I think there is still global warming. I've gotten messages about it, but never actually seen it. Additionally, if you use a sick number of nukes (as in, I don't think you can get that many without cheating) you can crack the earth like an egg and make everyone lose. I found this out when I was trying to see how the penalties for nukes work.

[Jinura]

Actully this game gets alot funner if you play as some civilization you like. Me for example is hooked up by the Holy Roman Empire. Or the Vikings ( being danish)

[Wolfprint]

First strikes work wonders with Chu-Ko-Nus. Those Chinese crossbowmen with collateral damage are so godly it's insane. An Oracle-Metal Casting gambit, then a quick Forge, pops you a Great Engineer early enough to research Machinery in a hurry.

On the Victory Screen (the one with the fist) you get a screen telling you what components you built. In Beyond the Sword you actually can modify your spaceship according to your time constraints (e.g. more thrusters for a quicker journey). You win a Space Victory when you get to Alpha Centauri, so speed matters i guess. You can launch the spaceship with a button at the bottom.

I'm also very impressed by the different units they use for the different Civs. The Teutonic and South American knights are really cool-looking.

[factotum]

I think there is still global warming. I've gotten messages about it, but never actually seen it.

Global warming turns previously fertile terrain into worse...so, for example, a nice Grassland might become a Plains or even a Desert. It usually only hits one square at a time, though, so it's quite easy to miss it; you usually only get the hint that something's wrong when you notice that one of your cities which has been stable population for 200 turns is suddenly starving!

[Eita]

Alright, I haven't installed BtS or Warlords yet, so... Yeah. There's no button to launch the thing.

[Rutee]

...Oh. Yeah, I can't help you there unfortunately. I've never played Vanilla Civ.

[Eita]

Installed BtS, played a game, loaded the Final Frontier mod, played another game, and realized that a 40K mod for Civ 4 would be epic.

[factotum]

Really not sure how such a mod could work, considering that technological advancement is not a big factor in the WH40K universe.

[Tom_Violence]

Speaking of Civ IV, does anyone know any good mods for it, besides the aforementioned Fall From Heaven? I'm interested in mods that actually do something new with the game (like fantasy/sci fi/etc.), rather than the ones that just seem to add in about 150 new kinds of tank. :smalltongue:

[Felizginato12]

Need tips?

DON'T PISS OFF THE GERMANS OR THEY WILL KICK YOUR ASS WITH PANSERZZZZZZ

oh wait this is Civ IV not Civ III...

In all seriousness it's a great game. I had some mods I used for it but I can't remember them (wiped my computer a while ago and I haven't played Civ IV in forever).

If I can find them I will link em' or something.

[Wolfprint]

The Germans can still kick your ass with Panzers. Panzers are the most imba units in the game IMO. You'll be undefeatable with a tech lead that nabs you Panzers early. Even if you come up late, your Panzer's 50% against armoured units means that you eat other tanks for breakfast. Nothing can take them down except for Gunships.

[Felizginato12]

No I meant that they are way too agressive in Civ III.

I remember playing a game on easy (when I first started playing civ) and the Germs demanded furs from me early on in the game. I decline and they start a war with me and three other civs.

I think they dumbed them down a bit in IV...

Another great addition is now you wont see a spearman having even a slight chance of taking down a tank somehow. xD

[Rutee]

The Germans can still kick your ass with Panzers. Panzers are the most imba units in the game IMO. You'll be undefeatable with a tech lead that nabs you Panzers early. Even if you come up late, your Panzer's 50% against armoured units means that you eat other tanks for breakfast. Nothing can take them down except for Gunships.

Um, the most imba is easily the Praetorian. The bonus between Praetorians/Swordsmen and Panzers/Tanks is almost identical objectively, but that minor bonus is so much better early in the game. Praetorians can reliably take down Axemen ( 5 vs. 6), whom are their counter, even. (Horse Archers with Shock, however..)

[Winthur]

Hey guys,

I'd like to invite anyone experienced enough to win on Monarch. I have started a CivFanatics succession game for Beyond the Sword. The link is over there: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=284887 (Note again: You need to have the Beyond the Sword expansion pack and be a winner on Prince or Monarch difficulty!)

Other than that... I think that Civilization IV deserves a good discussion. It's vastly improved and more comfortable to play now.

And I think that the unit that is really overpowered is a Roman Praetorian. It's a cheap yet very strong unit. If you are able to steamroll over some civs, gain their territory, the game is just almost won.

[Prophaniti]

I had a longbowman kill my tank once... a longbowman. My tank. Both at full health. He killed it with arrows. How the..?! :smallfurious: Yeah, it was a few days before I could play again.

Aside from that, though, love the game. I do agree that it's not as good as CivII, I mean, the council in CivII alone makes it the best game of the series. I miss those guys.

I had similar trouble with the spaceship, but it's been so long I don't recall how I figured it out, and I don't have the game anymore. I do remember that you have to build a LOT of some of the modules, not just one of each. Or am I remembering CivII again? Ugh, I need to play it again.

[SolkaTruesilver]

I had a longbowman kill my tank once... a longbowman. My tank. Both at full health. He killed it with arrows. How the..?! :smallfurious: Yeah, it was a few days before I could play again.

Aside from that, though, love the game. I do agree that it's not as good as CivII, I mean, the council in CivII alone makes it the best game of the series. I miss those guys.

I had similar trouble with the spaceship, but it's been so long I don't recall how I figured it out, and I don't have the game anymore. I do remember that you have to build a LOT of some of the modules, not just one of each. Or am I remembering CivII again? Ugh, I need to play it again.

if I remember CivII, you needed many engines, many fuel emplacement, etc... So I think you only need 1 of each in Civ4.

I am sorry to say, but the Council in Civ2 was.. useless. Annoying. they never sat well with me, and I am glad they were left out in the following games.

Okay, maybe not 100% glad. They could have tried to do something else interesting with it, but I'd rather not have them than the other way around ;)

[Wizzardman]

I had a longbowman kill my tank once... a longbowman. My tank. Both at full health. He killed it with arrows. How the..?! :smallfurious: Yeah, it was a few days before I could play again.

Aside from that, though, love the game. I do agree that it's not as good as CivII, I mean, the council in CivII alone makes it the best game of the series. I miss those guys.

I had similar trouble with the spaceship, but it's been so long I don't recall how I figured it out, and I don't have the game anymore. I do remember that you have to build a LOT of some of the modules, not just one of each. Or am I remembering CivII again? Ugh, I need to play it again.

Gotta agree with you on CivII. CivII was an amazing game. The only one of the series that ever even comes close to beating it is Alpha Centauri--and Alpha Centauri was an amazing game.

And, yeah, you do have to build a lot of modules, rather than just one of each. Fortunately, you don't have to build as many modules in Civ IV as you did in Civ II, but Civ IV also happens to have a bunch of new modules you need to build.

I dunno. As much as I love the Civilization series, I could never really get into Civ IV the way I got into Civ II. Maybe I need to play it more, or get the expansions, or maybe I just haven't figured out a good new city production pattern yet that'll keep me expanding properly (Defender-Settler-Stuff-Wonder doesn't work as well as it used to), or maybe its the reliance on doggone annoying to find resources (admittedly, Civ IV handles this better than Civ III did), but I just haven't gotten into it as much.

[Prophaniti]

Well, yeah they were useless, in a practical sense. They were also amusing as hell and I miss them. It was fun to try to get myself into specific situations to see if they had anything different to say, with some interesting results. I thought it was a fun and unique feature, and was put out when they didn't have the live council (or at least fully animated and voiced... or at least voiced, I mean, c'mon) in Civ III or IV.

[Threeshades]

I played it throguh once, then dismissed it. Was a great game though. Just one warning: If you should load custom playlists for the game's background music. DON'T - I repeat - DON'T use just one album of a single band. You will hate it after a while. you cant listen to it anymore, no matter how much you loved it before. I made the mistake. I had Korn - See You on the Other Side playing all the time. I couldnt listen to any song of it anymore for months.

On Civ 2 i most liked the scenario mods. And the easy way of customizing your own. Even though i never finished a good one. But there are still lots of awesome scenarios on the web. Bot the most attractive looking ones always required Civ2 gold. I only had the basic game + scenarios and fantastic worlds

[Wardog]

I had a longbowman kill my tank once... a longbowman. My tank. Both at full health. He killed it with arrows. How the..?! :smallfurious: Yeah, it was a few days before I could play again..

Must have been Rambo...

[Tom_Violence]

I played it throguh once, then dismissed it. Was a great game though. Just one warning: If you should load custom playlists for the game's background music. DON'T - I repeat - DON'T use just one album of a single band. You will hate it after a while. you cant listen to it anymore, no matter how much you loved it before. I made the mistake. I had Korn - See You on the Other Side playing all the time. I couldnt listen to any song of it anymore for months.

Sounds like you did yourself a favour. Arf arf. :smalltongue:

CivIV nearly cost me a small part of my degree, the damn addicting game that it is. I distinctly remember having an essay due the next day, and me being up til about 4 in the morning insisting to myself that I finish my game before starting the essay.

The thing I enjoy more than the game itself though are the mods for it, specifically the Fall From Heaven one. And I'm sure that if they ever get around to finishing off the Star Wars mod I'll once again not been seen for months. :smallsmile:

[Om]

I am sorry to say, but the Council in Civ2 was.. useless. Annoying. they never sat well with me, and I am glad they were left out in the following games.

Okay, maybe not 100% glad. They could have tried to do something else interesting with it, but I'd rather not have them than the other way around ;)Its nothing short of a disgrace that in almost a decade Firaxis has come nowhere close to creating a Council system even half as good as that of SMAC :smallmad:

[Prophaniti]

SMAC? Sorry, I'm at work and tired. What's that?

[Tom_Violence]

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, aka best game ever girlfriend.

[Prophaniti]

Oh, yeah. I haven't had the chance to play that one yet. What makes the council so great in that one?

[SolkaTruesilver]

... I... don't remember there being a council in SMAC... I remember there was a PLANETARY council, where you could funnnily trade insults with your ennemies, and hear your vassals sucking up to you, but outside of that...

[Cyclone231]

Play the 1000 AD scenario.

Good civilizations are China, India, Mongolia, Japan, and Britain; they're all pretty easy to figure out. I hate the other european nations (so ****ing cramped), and Saladin starts off at war with like everyone. I've tried to figure out how to make the Aztecs work, but they just get so ****ing outpaced and even a quick-build strategy can't keep europeans and asians for stealing the continent you rightfully own.

Hey, is it possible to play Fall from Heaven on a Mac?

[Om]

... I... don't remember there being a council in SMAC... I remember there was a PLANETARY councilThere's a contradiction there :smallwink:


Oh, yeah. I haven't had the chance to play that one yet. What makes the council so great in that one?In SMAC the council functioned as a sort of UN and I for one found it a hugely enjoyable mechanism. To quote from Wikipedia:

"...factions can periodically convene the council (at most once every 20 years (turns) for each faction; the Planetary Governor only has to wait 10 years) to make proposals such as electing a new governor, salvaging the Unity fusion reactor core to gain a large amount of energy credits for each faction, lower sea levels via satellite shades or raise them by melting the polar ice caps, eliminate the ban on atrocities like weapons of mass destruction, killing civilians with gas or punishing rioters by nerve-stapling, or creating or repealing a global trade pact"

[Tom_Violence]

Hey, is it possible to play Fall from Heaven on a Mac?

Dunno, but its worth a try. I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work, but then I know bugger all about Macs. Do any other mods work?

[Cyclone231]

Dunno, but its worth a try. I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work, but then I know bugger all about Macs. Do any other mods work?

The file for FfH on the website is an executable, so that's one reason; is there some way of making it install on a mac?

[Ethdred]

In SMAC the council functioned as a sort of UN and I for one found it a hugely enjoyable mechanism. To quote from Wikipedia:

"...factions can periodically convene the council (at most once every 20 years (turns) for each faction; the Planetary Governor only has to wait 10 years) to make proposals such as electing a new governor, salvaging the Unity fusion reactor core to gain a large amount of energy credits for each faction, lower sea levels via satellite shades or raise them by melting the polar ice caps, eliminate the ban on atrocities like weapons of mass destruction, killing civilians with gas or punishing rioters by nerve-stapling, or creating or repealing a global trade pact"

That wasn't a council in the Civ 2 sense. In Civ 2 you had a bunch of (really %^&%^*&%^&ing annoying and unfunny, not to mention completely stupid and repetitive) advisors who you could convene every X turns to give you advice that only a retarded turnip would actually take. As I recall, that was the most system-heavy part of the game as well.

[potatocubed]

Oh, yeah. I haven't had the chance to play that one yet. What makes the council so great in that one?

The way the diplomacy works in SMAC is just... stunning. You can actually play politics with the other factions, especially if you're the skeevy UN. For my money, it's never been beaten, which makes me wonder why Firaxis didn't just steal the damn thing wholesale for Civ4. :smallconfused:

[factotum]

Well, they did to some extent--the civics you have in Civ4 are very reminiscent of the various governmental and political choices you could make in SMAC, and the system of each civ having an area of influence comes straight from that game too.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I never bothered with anything other than University for SMAC. The tech advantage was just massively more powerful than anything else. Heck, the Spartan's advantage didn't even exist until after, what, Talent difficulty?

University + Scientific + Cyborg (after you get the Wonder to fix it) + the wonder to become immune to Probe = massive tech output! Even at 50%/50%/0%, you were putting out an insane amount of tech. One of my favorite tactics was 'air domination', which boils down to 'Choppers with the best weapons and no armor, Clean, to beat down opponents bases until they are empty, then Paratrooper in to take it over. At higher difficulties, you have to really Zerg it with massive numbers, since they get much better at building antiair defenses and in general better odds at defending.

In Civ III, Germans haven't been much of a problem for me. I like playing as Egypt, which is Religious and Industrious. That means I build roads and other improvements fast, and i can switch government types without dealing with anarchy. If they get uppidy, they get smack down. Another one I tried out was the Aztecs. Military and Religious, and their warrior unit has a move of 2. It's about the best I've ever found for an early-game exploration. MUCH better than any so-called 'expansionist' civ, which is just a waste. Babylon is just too easy to win with, being both Scientific and Religious. It's a challenge to get something OTHER than a Culture victory. I tried Greeks, and it was kind of fun, but a PITA to switch government types from Democratic to Communism in the middle of a war (with the Germans, ironically enough) when war weariness got too bad to deal with. There was so many Anarchy turns, that it just wasn't worth it. Although their unit is a very good early-game defensive unit (best until you get Saltpeter).

Ironically, the best thing to get for your civ, if you want military victory, is religious and something else. Militant doesn't really do much for you, other than slightly increase the odds of a Hero showing up. Sun Tzu's War Academy + Leonardo's Workshop = instant cheap upgrades for all your defending units.

As far as Civ IV, I've played it a bit, and find the religion founding aspect to be interesting, as well as the units which can convert opponent cities to your religion so you can end up stealing their cities for free. Other than that, I never played it much.

[factotum]

I never bothered with anything other than University for SMAC. The tech advantage was just massively more powerful than anything else. Heck, the Spartan's advantage didn't even exist until after, what, Talent difficulty?


Well, before the expansion came out Gaea's Children (I think that was the name) were pretty good, too--they had that automatic chance of converting a mindworm boil to their cause rather than killing it, and none of the other factions had any defence against mindworm psionics, so you could do some pretty nasty stuff to them. Of course, then they went and added Resonance armour in the expansion, which made that tactic much less effective!

[SolkaTruesilver]

Sorry folks, the The Hive pretty much won my heart years ago, with an occasionnal tendency to go fool around with Spartians one in a while. Chairman Yang FTW!!

[Tirian]

Heh, we should make a SMAC thread instead of derailing the Civ, even though it kind of is Civ 2.1. But this did make me pop the disk back in the drive after nine(!) years, which is greatly appreciated. Wheeee!

I agree that Gaia's Children is insta-win, but I suppose that probably everyone is.

[Om]

Well, before the expansion came out Gaea's Children (I think that was the name) were pretty good, tooUnless of course you happened to run into the Hive, Spartans, or Believers in the early game. Then you'd need an army of mindworms to make up for the uselessness of your green units

[Ethdred]

Unless of course you happened to run into the Hive, Spartans, or Believers in the early game. Then you'd need an army of mindworms to make up for the uselessness of your green units

No way! Believers are toast in the early game. You don't need an army of mindworms - only about 2 and a couple of speeders. The believers never seem to properly defend their cities in the early game, so they are pretty easy to wipe out. They also tend to be quite friendly when you first meet them and willing to trade their maps with you, so you can find all their cities!

It's the treehuggers or the Spartans for me. I love the flavour of the Gaians but the Spartan prototype advantage is, contrary to what StheL says, huge at some stages of the game, and they are generally much better in the combat stakes.

I've never had a problem keeping a tech advantage even at the highest level of difficulty, except for one game when the Uni started isolated on a huge island, so were able to expand like heck. But they were still toast once I found them :)

[Om]

No way! Believers are toast in the early game. You don't need an army of mindworms - only about 2 and a couple of speeders. The believers never seem to properly defend their cities in the early game, so they are pretty easy to wipe out. They also tend to be quite friendly when you first meet them and willing to trade their maps with you, so you can find all their cities!I find that its the opposite. The Believers tend to be an aggressive faction (perhaps that's why they leave themselves open to counterattack) and their infantry bonus is a big advantage. They also expand quickly and build up sizeable armies. Until you're able to open up a signficant tech lead they are very dangerous.

In comparison the Gaians only really become dangerous in the mid-game (about the same time the Believers start to fade). Oddly enough the Spartans have never worried me - unless I'm playing a weakling faction like the Gaians - as they're another faction whose advantages favour the early game

I'm going to have to reinstall this great game and treat myself to some nostalgia. I wonder if anyone here would be up for multiplayer?

[Ethdred]

I find that its the opposite. The Believers tend to be an aggressive faction (perhaps that's why they leave themselves open to counterattack) and their infantry bonus is a big advantage. They also expand quickly and build up sizeable armies. Until you're able to open up a signficant tech lead they are very dangerous.

In comparison the Gaians only really become dangerous in the mid-game (about the same time the Believers start to fade). Oddly enough the Spartans have never worried me - unless I'm playing a weakling faction like the Gaians - as they're another faction whose advantages favour the early game

I'm going to have to reinstall this great game and treat myself to some nostalgia. I wonder if anyone here would be up for multiplayer?

See the new thread!

[Wardog]

I never bothered with anything other than University for SMAC. The tech advantage was just massively more powerful than anything else. Heck, the Spartan's advantage didn't even exist until after, what, Talent difficulty?

I presume you mean the "no extra cost for prototype units" ability?

I can't remember at what difficulty level that ceases to be standard, but I always played at a high enough level for it to be relevant. That said, I never found it that significant, as you could cheaply prototype new technologies by building a simplest unit with the new tech (e.g. an unarmoured plane armed with hand-guns :smallamused: ).

The real benefit to the Spartans, though, was their large (+2) moral bonus, which meant they had the best troops in the game (other than Believers on the attack). Particularly because (without the aid of barracks, social engineering, or unit special abilities) everyone else's newly-built units had negative experiencec levels, and so were easy fodder for mind-worms.

Their +police rating was also nice, although not something that would critically alter gameplay.


But I agree that the University was overpowered.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Hey I tried playing Civ 4 again, but I got a problem. My CD has a huge scratch on it and the game doesn't recognize it. It still tells me to insert the CD even though its in the tray.

Can anyone help me here?