The Caves (Possible Spoilers)

[Surfing HalfOrc]

OK, the Resistance is hiding under the city, but somewhere, someone said that the caves were in the mountains. Do the caves link up?

And does the Cloister spell extend around the entire city in a sphere?

The cave openings kind of remind me of "Keep on the Borderlands," where the caves and tunnels all opened out into a box canyon. I wonder if all the caves have been thoroughly explored as yet, and maybe there is a way out of the city.

Any thoughts?

[Vargtass]

I can't find the reference to the caves being in the mountains. The only reference I find is in this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0452.html); one of the guard says he knows of some caves where they can hide. No mention of mountains, here. Have I missed something somwhere else?

[Tempest Fennac]

Normally, don't caves lead into mountains? I can't think of anywhere else where there would be caves in the AC area.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

I can't find the reference to the caves being in the mountains. The only reference I find is in this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0452.html); one of the guard says he knows of some caves where they can hide. No mention of mountains, here. Have I missed something somwhere else?

I think Redcloak said it, after the hobgoblins took the city. But I can't find it either... I'll keep looking.

EDIT: Still can't find anything definitive, but one of the nameless soldiers mentions caves here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0452.html), and Haley says the hobgoblins are dealing with the people running for the mountains here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0474.html).

Maybe I read more into that than there really was. I'm used to caves having entrances in the sides of mountains, and not just straight down.

Still, the caves/catacombs the Resistance is hiding in might lead to the outside. Or maybe not. Getting Redcloak and Xkyon to move on might be the only way to escape from under the city.

[Roderick_BR]

Maybe the tunnels move around under the city, and the Cloister caught some of the mountain area too.
If they could actually sneak out to keep their HQ protected, while invading to rescure prisoners, Haley would have been contacted by V by now.

[tenguro]

Maybe, but then that would be Helms deep in some way.

[VetMichael]

Hey, I just thought of something: Is the reason that we can't find the direct reference to caves + mountains + AC due to the Cloister spell?? It *IS* a powerful spell afterall.


But on a serious(ish) note, can scrying of the resistant redoubt be blocked (ironically) by the Cloister spell? or is it more like a dome cast over the city?

[VetMichael]

Hey, I just thought of something: Is the reason that we can't find the direct reference to caves + mountains + AC due to the Cloister spell?? It *IS* a powerful spell afterall.


But on a serious(ish) note, can scrying of the resistant redoubt be blocked (ironically) by the Cloister spell? or is it more like a dome cast over the city?

[chibibar]

It could be underground cavern :) we have those in Texas.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Hey, I just thought of something: Is the reason that we can't find the direct reference to caves + mountains + AC due to the Cloister spell?? It *IS* a powerful spell afterall.


But on a serious(ish) note, can scrying of the resistant redoubt be blocked (ironically) by the Cloister spell? or is it more like a dome cast over the city?

At first, I thought Cloister acted as a dome, but now I think it might be a full sphere. Scry should be able to penetrate rock, so V's inability to reach Haley and Belkar might show that the Cloister spell penetrates the earth.

The question is, does Cloister only block magic, or does it block any and all movement? Are the hobgoblins able to leave the city for patrols, or is everyone stuck inside for the duration.

One other thing... If the caves are under the city, and the city is a port/coastal city, what keeps the sea from flooding the caves? I know, catgirls are calling out in terror, but the city seems only a few feet above the ocean, not on cliffs overlooking the sea. It would seem the water table should flood out any caverns.

[North]

Id think that the caves were simply underneath the city.

[Callista]

Normally, don't caves lead into mountains? I can't think of anywhere else where there would be caves in the AC area.No, they don't. For example, Missouri and its limestone caverns... Huge numbers of caves; but no mountains. All you need is sufficiently dissolvable rock and enough water to do the job.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

No, they don't. For example, Missouri and its limestone caverns... Huge numbers of caves; but no mountains. All you need is sufficiently dissolvable rock and enough water to do the job.

Well, they have the water. Big, ocean looking thing near the docks? :smallwink:

But other than "plot," how do you keep the water out of it? I've explored caves before, but generally if the cave is below sea level near the coast, you notice a certian dampness.

But mountains near oceans can and do have perfectly dry caves, as long as they are above sea level. That's why I though the caves might be in the mountains surrounding Azure City.

Maybe Azure City does slope down to the sea like San Francisco, and the caves are under the hills.

[Chronos]

Well, the Cloister spell is presumably spherical, and the city itself presumably isn't, so it's quite possible that the Cloister caught some of the adjacent mountains in its area. So the caves could still be in the mountains.

[Twisted Otaku]

OK, the Resistance is hiding under the city, but somewhere, someone said that the caves were in the mountains. Do the caves link up?

And does the Cloister spell extend around the entire city in a sphere?

The cave openings kind of remind me of "Keep on the Borderlands," where the caves and tunnels all opened out into a box canyon. I wonder if all the caves have been thoroughly explored as yet, and maybe there is a way out of the city.

Any thoughts?

Either way, I hope they don't disturb something more ancient, and more evil than what they're already facing

[David Argall]

But other than "plot," how do you keep the water out of it?
Recall the good old days of D&D1, where we had underground lakes, with dry rooms right below them, suitable for flooding when the party pressed the button saying "press me".
The laws of D&D physics do seem to have rules keeping water out of caves that could hold monsters instead. Since it is convenient to have the caves in the city, these caves are dry, end of story.


Maybe Azure City does slope down to the sea like San Francisco, and the caves are under the hills.
The pictures suggest some slope, but not much. 483 gives us a mixed message here. From the ship, we see an almost flat city, where even the castle top is not above 100' above sea level. But from the shore, Haley and Belkar seem to be at least 100' up some hill in the city and they are on the street. The difference is presumably the artistic needs of the story.

In a more real world, the city should be on very low ground, with only a gradual slope inland. That rules out caves, except where they are plot convenient.

Cloister is still an open question. But the evidence suggests it means nothing is coming in or out, and that would mean above or below ground.

[factotum]

But other than "plot," how do you keep the water out of it? I've explored caves before, but generally if the cave is below sea level near the coast, you notice a certian dampness.


In theory it shouldn't be impossible for a cave under sea level to be perfectly dry, so long as it's in the middle of some nice non-porous rock. It does seem a little unlikely such a large cave so close to the ocean would be dry, though...

[Raging_Pacifist]

What your all forgetting is this a comic based on a fantasy game and small read world rules such as caves always being slightly damp dont nesscascarilly(terrible spelling) have to apply.
Also in comic 255 one of the fleeing soldiers yells, "I know some caves we can hide in!" look for him.

[Jimblee]

I know if I started an underground rebellion, I'd want my secret hideout to have multiple exits, as well as an escape route far outside of the city.

[factotum]

I know if I started an underground rebellion, I'd want my secret hideout to have multiple exits, as well as an escape route far outside of the city.

There's two ways of looking at that. Having multiple exits makes guerrilla warfare easier (because you can exit into the city closer to your intended target) and also makes it easier to escape if your base is found. Conversely, having multiple exits makes it more likely they'll find your base, which is obviously a bad thing.

[Tempest Fennac]

I mever knew about those kinds of caves, Callista. I thought the terrain around AC looked to be harder them limestone considering where the ocean is (also, if the caves lead into the mountains, it would explain the slope to a degree).

[Tass]

In theory it shouldn't be impossible for a cave under sea level to be perfectly dry, so long as it's in the middle of some nice non-porous rock. It does seem a little unlikely such a large cave so close to the ocean would be dry, though...

No.

Where would the water go? Even if the water can't get in from the ocean, rain would seep down, and unless we have a very well ventilated cave evaporation will be virtually nill under ground.

Now if only this was Cliffport. If those where limestone cliffs we should actually expect huge systems of costal caves under the city, some under water, some above, some even dry. Maybe azure city does slope enough? Well the picture in 484 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0484.html) does seem very flat, but if the city is several miles from end to end, the slope does not need to be that great for the inland side to be 100 meters above sea level, and in 483 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0483.html) we definately get the impression of some height.

[BisectedBrioche]

Well its not as if the water could some how have been removed in the past so the caves could carry out the very function the resistance is using them for...

I mean they would need magic or something for that, right?

[hajo]

Maybe Azure City does slope down to the sea like San Francisco, and the caves are under the hills.

#422 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0422.html) shows a great panorama from the land side, and the citywall goes right to the mountains.

[Khanderas]

If caves only existed in mountains... the Underdark mountain must be real big, housing all the Drow, Duegar and dozens more.
A mountain is just a bump in the planet. Caves can exist anywhere.

The cloister spell must be an enemation field, or Redcloak would have scried the heck outta the resistence.

[zillion ninjas]

The cloister spell must be an enemation field, or Redcloak would have scried the heck outta the resistence.

"Enemation field"? That sounds... uncomfortable. :smalleek: Somehow, I don't think Redcloak would have been willing to endure that for 3-4 months. Now Tsukiko, on the other hand, might be into that sort of thing, too.

Maybe you meant "emanation (http://www.hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=emanation)"? As in, radiating out from a source point (the headband) and filling up the space to its limits? That would make sense, as opposed to a barrier that just prevents communication/movement between inside and outside the area. Or else Xykon could be watching the Resistance with his Teevo all this time.