Necrons vs Starcraft

[Zenos]

If we took:

5000 necron warriors, immortals and other assorted necron infantry
250 pariahs
500 necron skimmers (destroyers and tomb spiders)
25 necron monoliths
3 necron lords
1 souped up necron lord (about thrice as effective as a normal one)
Several necron pylons
a necron fleet consisting of a cairn class tombship, a pair of scythes, a pair of shrouds, three jackals and three dirges.

vs

The terran, the protoss and the Zerg, all of them. Note that they're not allies.

They SC units may not have any special characters.

Would the necrons be able to rout the Starcraft forces and take overharvest at least ten planets?

Backstory: A small mining outpost on an otherwise uninteresting world has stopped communicating with the other Terrans. Lately, some very strange spacecraft have been sighted making way for the nearest terran outpost. The Protoss and the Zerg have also been made aware of this, and are preparing for war...

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Dude, ten planets? The SC verse is royally screwed :smallwink: :smallamused:

[lipe44]

It depends, if its 10 terran planets then Necrons will win so fast...

[warty goblin]

Terrans collapse and die inside a week, Protoss last slightly longer, leaving Necrons vs. Zerg. Somehow I'm going to have to go with the undead robots on this one...

[lipe44]

The moment Necrons start gaining ground Terran, Protoss and Zerg will ally then my friend, there is no way you can kill something like that...

[Meshakhad]

Given the victory conditions you've stated, the Necrons will probably win. However, down the road, the Terrans, Zerg, & Protoss will join forces, and at that point the Necrons are going to get raped. Starcraft teams are balanced individually - united, they are nigh-unstoppable.

[TK-Squared]

The Necrons summon Nightbringer. Nightbringer takes the Pariahs. Everyone dies.

[Zenos]

The moment Necrons start gaining ground Terran, Protoss and Zerg will ally then my friend, there is no way you can kill something like that...

Against 5000 undead, regenerating robots, not counting nigh-invulnerable hovering buildings that shoot you. And then there's the pylons (which defends their tomb world)...
...Who come back later after you've defeated them.
And then come again. And again. And yet again. Etcetera, rinse and repeat until all life in the galaxy is devoured.

[lipe44]

Against 5000 undead, regenerating robots, not counting nigh-invulnerable hovering buildings that shoot you. And then there's the pylons (which defends their tomb world)...
...Who come back later after you've defeated them.
And then come again. And again. And yet again. Etcetera, rinse and repeat until all life in the galaxy is devoured.

Pylons? In starcraft they are just powering structures...

Also zerg are purely numbers, protoss is power and terran fills the rest. Each race is good at one thing, together they are good at everything, they are perfect, no matter if they come back because when they do they will be the only thing left and also cerebrates also come back but a dark templar can perma kill it.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Well in 40k Pylons are giant structures that limit psychic energies and shoot out death. And the Necrons are an unrelenting tide of skeletal death, they do not stop, they do not rest, they just keep killing and killing and killing and killing until theres nothing to kill, then they go to sleep and wait until there are things to kill again, rinse and repeat.

[Ganurath]

Does the Xel'Naga Temple count as a special character?

If so, I'll still side with SC. Terrans lose ground fast before the Protoss show up, carpet bombing everything Necron to force a retreat. Then the Zerg show up through their wormhole thing and start landing planetside to pick up the scraps. All they need is one Pariah planetside, and it's infested.

Necron Warriors? Their weapons strip layers off their opponents, and the Zealots have enough extra layers to close into melee and shake things up. Even a Necron mind on chronometric junk would have a hard time keeping track of all the Zerglings before they run up to the Necrons and start glomping them to death. The Marines... Well, like I said, Terrans lose ground early.

Pariahs have flesh. Zerg infest flesh. Broodlings, anyone? No? Fine, let's settle for Spider Mines (since they're melee) and Psychic Storms.

Destroyers and Tomb Spyders? Bah! Let me introduce you to Siege Tanks in Siege mode, supported by Reavers/Scarabs. Any that survive that assault can get bisected by an ultralisk. Bow to the Kaiser!

Monoliths... Wow, there's a toughy. Terrans have nukes, but they'll need a costly distraction with cover fire. I guess that would be where the Hydralisks and Dragoons get to do their duty. The swarm won't miss them when they're gone with the blastwave, and the Goons already died once.

Necron Lords, even the super version, are going to get it from Dark Templar. Why? Dark Templar cloak themselves by psionically bonding with the void of space, connecting their existence to the void. Translate to 40K, they're using the Warp like a blanket. Necrons cannot detect the Warp, they have absolutely nothing to detect the Dark Templar until they start killing, at which point it's firing in the general area where the last Necron died.

The Necron Fleet... I'm not familiar with the vessels in question. After Google and Wiki, and looking at Starcraft cinematics, I've determined a Cairn is on scale with a Terran Battlecruiser, a Scythe on scale with a Protoss Carrier, while rest are on the scale between heavy ships like the Battlecruiser and lighter ships like the Arbiter.

Here's how it goes: Observers and Shrouds counterattack one another in terms of intel gathering. Starcraft universe has a huge edge from the Wraiths, Mutas, Scouts, and Corsairs because, as detailed in the Wraiths fluff, bigger ships have a hard time targetting smaller ships. Squadrons of fighters will gradually pick the Jackal and Dirges apart, or at least keep them busy long enough for the superior numbers of Battlecruisers, Carriers, Arbiters, Valkyries, and Devourers to take out the Cairn ship. For sense of scale: those pixel-wide black slits on the back of the Battlecruiser's hammerhead are Wraith hangars. Looking at cutscenes zoomed on Wraith's you'll see they're the size of modern aircraft with a third wing beneath. Conclusion: the hammerhead of a Battlecruiser is the size of a football stadium. I doubt a Cairn ship can stand multiple Yamato blasts, especially with Zerg and Protoss support.

Oh, and if the Necrons bring the Nightbringer to bear? Dark Archon turns a being's energy on itself, and the C'Tan are pure energy. Dark Archon commits freakin' deicide.

In conclusion, the Starcraft universe wins with heavy losses that would have been avoided if their only combatants were Dark Templars and Dark Archons.

[Zenos]

Pylons? In starcraft they are just powering structures...

Also zerg are purely numbers, protoss is power and terran fills the rest. Each race is good at one thing, together they are good at everything, they are perfect, no matter if they come back because when they do they will be the only thing left and also cerebrates also come back but a dark templar can perma kill it.

That's because they're not NECRON pylons. Necron pylons are gigantic turret weapons that rise out of the earth...

Also, whilst Zerg+Protoss+Terrans might have all the good stuff, I think they might have the problem that:

1. How would the leadership be? I see it would be difficult to coordinate strategy and tactics.
2. The necrons come back, if they are defeated they teleport out, all of 'em. Then they repair themselves and come back with a vengeance.
3. A necron fleet is very strong, since they are made from living metal, they have advanced targeting systems, and of course their crews are tough enough to withstand impact very well compared to living beings. The necrons could isolate one planet at a time, harvest it and then go away. They are mobile (on a space travel scale anyways) and on the offensive whilst the SC are on the defense.

[lipe44]

That's because they're not NECRON pylons. Necron pylons are gigantic turret weapons that rise out of the earth...

Also, whilst Zerg+Protoss+Terrans might have all the good stuff, I think they might have the problem that:

1. How would the leadership be? I see it would be difficult to coordinate strategy and tactics.
2. The necrons come back, if they are defeated they teleport out, all of 'em. Then they repair themselves and come back with a vengeance.
3. A necron fleet is very strong, since they are made from living metal, they have advanced targeting systems, and of course their crews are tough enough to withstand impact very well compared to living beings. The necrons could isolate one planet at a time, harvest it and then go away. They are mobile (on a space travel scale anyways) and on the offensive whilst the SC are on the defense.

Well, its obvious they are not necron pylons... :smallwink:

1- Not that hard, a full assault can be made by a combined force while units like dark templar and ghost get in position.
2- If they are defeated how they teleport out? They died, end of story. If they come back they cant just go to a random place, they come back at the same place or another necrons must revive then, in this case they lost.
3- Well, power can be usefull but SC would have power AND numbers, also defense? Necrons will stay on defense as the zerg can keep attacking and attacking and attacking while protoss and terran can give suport or just prevent Necrons from doing anything else but fighting them.

[Ganurath]

1. How would the leadership be? I see it would be difficult to coordinate strategy and tactics.Kerrigan, Terran General, and Protoss Templar coordinate planetside inside a Terran Command Center. Kerrigan can stealth out if things go bad, Protoss can Recall, and Terrans have both surrounded if things go bad for them. Between that and the Necrons, mutually assured destruction ensures cooperation.
2. The necrons come back, if they are defeated they teleport out, all of 'em. Then they repair themselves and come back with a vengeance.Actually, they teleport back, and the infested Pariahs bust loose and bring the fight to the Necrons, signalling across the psychic network to Kerrigan where the Necron homeworld is. They won't know to do this until the second wave, but rest assured there won't be a third.
3. A necron fleet is very strong, since they are made from living metal, they have advanced targeting systems, and of course their crews are tough enough to withstand impact very well compared to living beings. The necrons could isolate one planet at a time, harvest it and then go away. They are mobile (on a space travel scale anyways) and on the offensive whilst the SC are on the defense.Correction: When working against a stationary foe, the SC forces are defensive. If you go on the offensive, everybody returns the gesture. With the three races coordinating, it'll be a bloodbath that ends with scraps of 'living' metal floating in space.

[puppyavenger]

signalling across the psychic network to Kerrigan where the Necron homeworld is.

THe necron homeworld was oblieterated in a galaxy wide war when the Eldar thought hitting to rocks together was a novel idea. And there tomb world have C'tan in them.

[TK-Squared]

Does the Xel'Naga Temple count as a special character?

If so, I'll still side with SC. Terrans lose ground fast before the Protoss show up, carpet bombing everything Necron to force a retreat. Then the Zerg show up through their wormhole thing and start landing planetside to pick up the scraps. All they need is one Pariah planetside, and it's infested.

Necron Warriors? Their weapons strip layers off their opponents, and the Zealots have enough extra layers to close into melee and shake things up. Even a Necron mind on chronometric junk would have a hard time keeping track of all the Zerglings before they run up to the Necrons and start glomping them to death. The Marines... Well, like I said, Terrans lose ground early.

Gauss Weapons flay things within a matter of seconds, they completely rip molecules apart and are capable of destroying even Titan-Class armour. These guys could rip apart a rushing horde of Zealots easily.
Wraiths and Flayed Ones vs. that Zergling Rush? Wraiths are capable of blinking in and out of existance and have specially made claws that cut through Zergs like it was mere air. Flayed Ones also have these claws, but there are more of them!

Let's not forget, of course, if they do eventually beat down some Necrons, they can just get back up again. ESPECIALLY with a Necron Lord or a Tomb Spyder around.

Pariahs have flesh. Zerg infest flesh. Broodlings, anyone? No? Fine, let's settle for Spider Mines (since they're melee) and Psychic Storms.

Pariahs also have Warscythes (Think of it as a Lightsaberscythe). Get close to them, get torn apart immediatly. Pariahs also emit an uneerie presence that makes Psykers or Psychics flee IN TERROR.

Destroyers and Tomb Spyders? Bah! Let me introduce you to Siege Tanks in Siege mode, supported by Reavers/Scarabs. Any that survive that assault can get bisected by an ultralisk. Bow to the Kaiser!

Let me introduce you to Deep Striking a Monolith on your Siege Tanks and pouring units from it. Or the fact Destroyers move at exceptional speed and fire at the same time. Oh, and they can get back up again.

Monoliths... Wow, there's a toughy. Terrans have nukes, but they'll need a costly distraction with cover fire. I guess that would be where the Hydralisks and Dragoons get to do their duty. The swarm won't miss them when they're gone with the blastwave, and the Goons already died once.

The Monolith uses it Particle Whip on the Dragoons and Hydralisks. They are promptly rended from existance. Then they drop another one on you. Then, they start spewing troops.

Necron Lords, even the super version, are going to get it from Dark Templar. Why? Dark Templar cloak themselves by psionically bonding with the void of space, connecting their existence to the void. Translate to 40K, they're using the Warp like a blanket. Necrons cannot detect the Warp, they have absolutely nothing to detect the Dark Templar until they start killing, at which point it's firing in the general area where the last Necron died.

Necron lord with Veil of Darkness, War Scythe, Phylactery and Ressurection Orb is hangin' out with his Immortals and some dead troops. They get attacked by Dark Templar. Dark Templar have just shown where they are. Necron Lord kills them. He is one of the best, after all. Failing that, he just uses the Ressurection Orb and eventually one of his legion will hit them. It's a win/win situation.

The Necron Fleet... I'm not familiar with the vessels in question. After Google and Wiki, and looking at Starcraft cinematics, I've determined a Cairn is on scale with a Terran Battlecruiser, a Scythe on scale with a Protoss Carrier, while rest are on the scale between heavy ships like the Battlecruiser and lighter ships like the Arbiter.

You've determined quite badly. A Cairn can take out an Imperial Battlecruiser. I doubt that a Terran Battlecruiser is really equipped to deal with them. Seeing as a Cairn has the ability to wear down the enemy crews mind with its attacks... Really, they don't stand much of a chance. Then, a Scythe is the same as a Cairn, but faster. Yeah.

Here's how it goes: Observers and Shrouds counterattack one another in terms of intel gathering. Starcraft universe has a huge edge from the Wraiths, Mutas, Scouts, and Corsairs because, as detailed in the Wraiths fluff, bigger ships have a hard time targetting smaller ships. Squadrons of fighters will gradually pick the Jackal and Dirges apart, or at least keep them busy long enough for the superior numbers of Battlecruisers, Carriers, Arbiters, Valkyries, and Devourers to take out the Cairn ship. For sense of scale: those pixel-wide black slits on the back of the Battlecruiser's hammerhead are Wraith hangars. Looking at cutscenes zoomed on Wraith's you'll see they're the size of modern aircraft with a third wing beneath. Conclusion: the hammerhead of a Battlecruiser is the size of a football stadium. I doubt a Cairn ship can stand multiple Yamato blasts, especially with Zerg and Protoss support.

Shroud Class ships were the ones that broke through the Mars defenses. Frankly, that should put it in perspective to anyone who knows anything about the Mars Defenses of 40k.

Oh, and if the Necrons bring the Nightbringer to bear? Dark Archon turns a being's energy on itself, and the C'Tan are pure energy. Dark Archon commits freakin' deicide.

The Nightbringer is death incarnate. The Dark Archons see him and decide to commit suicide rather than attempt to even begin using that much energy against His power. The Nightbringer then promptly Lightning Arcs everything and stares it to death.

In conclusion, the Starcraft universe wins with heavy losses that would have been avoided if their only combatants were Dark Templars and Dark Archons.

My take on it.

[TK-Squared]

2- If they are defeated how they teleport out? They died, end of story. If they come back they cant just go to a random place, they come back at the same place or another necrons must revive then, in this case they lost.


Whenever a Necron Army faces defeat, they phase out. Everything of the Necrons phase out. Even the dead. Then they reconstruct and come back.

[lipe44]

"The Nightbringer is death incarnate. The Dark Archons see him and decide to commit suicide rather than attempt to even begin using that much energy against His power. The Nightbringer then promptly Lightning Arcs everything and stares it to death."

That energy is his power, if used against him what he will do? Use his power against itself?


Whenever a Necron Army faces defeat, they phase out. Everything of the Necrons phase out. Even the dead. Then they reconstruct and come back.

They were defeated once, the SC army is still intact. They saw an enemy dissapear, they know its alive. What the hell do you think they will do? Look for him while prepare all the armies again.

[TK-Squared]

"The Nightbringer is death incarnate. The Dark Archons see him and decide to commit suicide rather than attempt to even begin using that much energy against His power. The Nightbringer then promptly Lightning Arcs everything and stares it to death."

That energy is his power, if used against him what he will do? Use his power against itself?

Absorb it. That's basically what the C'Tan do. They absorb mass amounts of energy and essences. Like, y'know, from Stars, life forms and other C'Tan?

[lipe44]

Absorb it. That's basically what the C'Tan do. They absorb mass amounts of energy and essences. Like, y'know, from Stars, life forms and other C'Tan?

I see, they absorb energies that arent being used against him while he has no power, your point? No matter if you absorb energy, if all energy you got is used against you there is nothing you can do, you will be powerless and facing more energy together than you ever faced.

[Oslecamo]

From all we know, in the current times of Warhammer 40k there was never sighted such an huge necron army. If the necrons launched such an assault against the eldar/tyrannids/emperium of men then it would be a major carnage.

Anyway, I agree with the guy overhead that the starcraft races united are much stronger than the sum of the parts.

The leader? Kerrigan. She already managed to unite the 3 races one time.

All the SC stupid comanders are dead after broodwar. Once they see the necrons they'll understand that they need to fight togheter.

Oh, and can't resist.

Dark archon mind controls necronlord. Unleash lord poer on his own army.
Mind control monoliths. Repeat. Profit.

Doesn't matter if the lord has a actual mind or not, mind control worked just fine to dominate purely mechanical units like the protoss reaver.

And the necrons don't have uber pshychic powers to hide behind now.

In the end the protoss will be in control of the biggest nastiest robotic undead army story has ever seen.

[puppyavenger]

From all we know, in the current times of Warhammer 40k there was never sighted such an huge necron army. If the necrons launched such an assault against the eldar/tyrannids/emperium of men then it would be a major carnage.

Anyway, I agree with the guy overhead that the starcraft races united are much stronger than the sum of the parts.

The leader? Kerrigan. She already managed to unite the 3 races one time.

All the SC stupid comanders are dead after broodwar. Once they see the necrons they'll understand that they need to fight togheter.

Oh, and can't resist.

Dark archon mind controls necronlord. Unleash lord poer on his own army.
Mind control monoliths. Repeat. Profit.

Doesn't matter if the lord has a actual mind or not, mind control worked just fine to dominate purely mechanical units like the protoss reaver.

And the necrons don't have uber pshychic powers to hide behind now.

In the end the protoss will be in control of the biggest nastiest robotic undead army story has ever seen.

umm, yah the C'tan already own there minds, good luck getting them.

[TK-Squared]

I see, they absorb energies that arent being used against him while he has no power, your point? No matter if you absorb energy, if all energy you got is used against you there is nothing you can do, you will be powerless and facing more energy together than you ever faced.

So, these Dark Archons are so powerful they are capable of channeling all the C'Tan's energy, a living GOD of unremarkable poewr, to make it powerless.

Yeah.

No.

[lipe44]

So, these Dark Archons are so powerful they are capable of channeling all the C'Tan's energy, a living GOD of unremarkable poewr, to make it powerless.

Yeah.

No.

He channel his energy, you said his energy is his power so yes. Also Gods doesnt exist, no matter how strong a being is, its not a God, it might be a "God", you may not see but there is a BIG difference.

[Zenos]

The C'Tan's only weakness is warp attacks. They are gods of the material. Therefore the abstract nature of the warp is opposed to them. That is why they made the Pariah's, who hunt psykers (or people with psychic powers, they make psychic people's heads hurt when they come close).

Also, what is this nonsense about infesting pariahs? They might be mroe alive than the necron warriors, but still, they're slightly too... Metallic?

[puppyavenger]

He channel his energy, you said his energy is his power so yes. Also Gods doesnt exist, no matter how strong a being is, its not a God, it might be a "God", you may not see but there is a BIG difference.

coughChaoscough

[Ganurath]

Alright, we need to explain how C'Tan versus Dark Archon works. The Feedback power, as I understand, takes the psionic/magical/whatever you want to call it energy of the target and directs it to attack its physical body. If the Nightbringer's body is more powerful than the Nightbringer's energy state, the vessel survives but has no pilot at the C'Tan was dispersed by the Feedback's attempted kill. If the Nightbringer is more powerful, the C'Tan itself is wounded, something I doubt it experienced even when fighting Khaine, and the body destroyed. Tell me, will the Necrons be able to summon another Nightbringer if the Nightbringer doesn't want to come?

Also, regardless of how well the troops are going to work against one another, the Necrons as a whole are going to be forced out betweened the combined influences of the infinite Zerg swarm, Protoss automation/stealth, and Terran explosives (spider mines, nukes, and siege tanks.) Naturally, a few planets are going to be lost in the process, but so long as the Zerg can eat and the Protoss can teleport, those races can reclaim dead worlds after the Necrons teleport away.

Finally, after repelling the second wave with a more intelligent, more prepared force, most like with Zerg evolved to counteract Gauss weapons and endure the claws and eat the living metal, there will be Pariahs that get infested. The infestation will naturally be dealt with, but not before Kerrigan gets that wicked grin of hers and points to the map on the Terran screen, telling the Protoss which planet to glass. Orbital purge FTW!

[Zenos]

He channel his energy, you said his energy is his power so yes. Also Gods doesnt exist, no matter how strong a being is, its not a God, it might be a "God", you may not see but there is a BIG difference.

Then they're insanely powerful deamons who live in the material universe. Same concept. Or maybe they're the material counterpart to the chaos gods+God Emperor of Man? Ah well.


Alright, we need to explain how C'Tan versus Dark Archon works. The Feedback power, as I understand, takes the psionic/magical/whatever you want to call it energy of the target and directs it to attack its physical body. If the Nightbringer's body is more powerful than the Nightbringer's energy state, the vessel survives but has no pilot at the C'Tan was dispersed by the Feedback's attempted kill. If the Nightbringer is more powerful, the C'Tan itself is wounded, something I doubt it experienced even when fighting Khaine, and the body destroyed. Tell me, will the Necrons be able to summon another Nightbringer if the Nightbringer doesn't want to come?

Also, regardless of how well the troops are going to work against one another, the Necrons as a whole are going to be forced out betweened the combined influences of the infinite Zerg swarm, Protoss automation/stealth, and Terran explosives (spider mines, nukes, and siege tanks.) Naturally, a few planets are going to be lost in the process, but so long as the Zerg can eat and the Protoss can teleport, those races can reclaim dead worlds after the Necrons teleport away.

Finally, after repelling the second wave with a more intelligent, more prepared force, most like with Zerg evolved to counteract Gauss weapons and endure the claws and eat the living metal, there will be Pariahs that get infested. The infestation will naturally be dealt with, but not before Kerrigan gets that wicked grin of hers and points to the map on the Terran screen, telling the Protoss which planet to glass. Orbital purge FTW!

Firstly, I want to say that when we say living metal, we mean regenerating metal. It's not very much like flesh, it simply regenerates.

Second, the necron's don't take worlds, they harvest them, then move on.

Third, the orbital purge willbe stopped by the necron fleet, which is superior to an equivalent force of the ships used by the living.

About the C'Tan, I don't realy know how the Archon's stuff works, so I don't have the expertise to debate on it. By the way, how fast can the SC forces send reinforcements to their worlds?

[lipe44]

The C'Tan's only weakness is warp attacks. They are gods of the material. Therefore the abstract nature of the warp is opposed to them. That is why they made the Pariah's, who hunt psykers (or people with psychic powers, they make psychic people's heads hurt when they come close).

Also, what is this nonsense about infesting pariahs? They might be mroe alive than the necron warriors, but still, they're slightly too... Metallic?

Not sure what you mean exactly but all protoss ave psychic powers. Zerg and terran also posses several so you just made them weaker.

They infest tanks so why not a pariahs?


Then they're insanely powerful deamons who live in the material universe. Same concept. Or maybe they're the material counterpart to the chaos gods+God Emperor of Man? Ah well.

Only if its chaos demons and Emperor of Man... Also whats exactly is Warhammer, it doesnt seem to be a game, movie or book for what i read in this forum about it...

[TK-Squared]

He channel his energy, you said his energy is his power so yes. Also Gods doesnt exist, no matter how strong a being is, its not a God, it might be a "God", you may not see but there is a BIG difference.



material effigy that is worshipped




deity: any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force


The Nightbringer, and subsequently most other C'Tan, was revered by the Necrontyr as a God, worshipped due to its immense power and abilities far surpassing the norm of any being; perhaps rivalling even The God Emperor (check it out, he's got a God in his name too. BIG DIFFERENCE, dudes. BIG.).

But, don't worry, everytime I refer to the C'Tan as a diety-like figure (C'Tan means God in Necrontyr-ish), I will use quotation marks to display the OBVIOUS difference.

Right, so these Dark Archons, who are now powerful enough to channel near infinite energy from "Gods", then use this "God"-energy against the C'Tan, who lay waste to entire armies at once with their "God"-like powers. That sounds remarkably incorrect to me.


Also, on the note of Warp Attacks; even against the Eldar's Warp attacks, the C'Tan, being "Gods", are capable of recontructing themselves after it. The C'Tan's bodies metal, Necrodermis, is one of the most highly prized blade material in the whole Imperium.

Seriously, C'Tan are "Gods" and I really doubt a Dark Archon, or even a lot of them could channel a C'Tan's power. Especially the Nightbringers, whom I believe is the second strongest of the remaining four.

[lipe44]

Energy is energy, it doesnt matter how strong the thing is, the Dark Archon can use a being's energy against itself.


Firstly, I want to say that when we say living metal, we mean regenerating metal. It's not very much like flesh, it simply regenerates.

Second, the necron's don't take worlds, they harvest them, then move on.

Third, the orbital purge willbe stopped by the necron fleet, which is superior to an equivalent force of the ships used by the living.

About the C'Tan, I don't realy know how the Archon's stuff works, so I don't have the expertise to debate on it. By the way, how fast can the SC forces send reinforcements to their worlds?

It regenerates means it is in a sense of the world "alive" so still can work...

When, then dont harvest then in 1 second, do they?

Good luck taking down limitless number of zerg while getting attacked by heavy protoss and terran ships.

There is gates in some of the protoss worlds that allow insta travel. The arbiters can also recall troops from very long distances. They have some kind of warp/hyper or whatever, zerg units can also travel like that.

[Zenos]

Not sure what you mean exactly but all protoss ave psychic powers. Zerg and terran also posses several so you just made them weaker.

They infest tanks so why not a pariahs?

They presumably infest the crew

Only if its chaos demons and Emperor of Man... Also whats exactly is Warhammer, it doesnt seem to be a game, movie or book for what i read in this forum about it...

If you don't know anything about Warhammer you should do some more research before trying to debate about it.

Comments in bold.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Dude for one you people are trying to game mechanic us to death, you can't MIND CONTROL A MONOLITH, IT HAS NO MIND! and the feedback thing? If it even TRIES to channel the power of the Nightbringer it would probably explode... yes EXPLODE. The reason tanks could be infected was because they had PEOPLE INSIDE, Pariahs are just as metal as any of their allies (and their fear thing works on anyone, not just psychics, its just a more pronounced effect on psychics.

Warhammer 40k is a universe unto its own, its a tabletop game that also has computer games, books, and other stuffs to it.

[BRC]

First of all, I say we keep the C'tan out of this.
Secondly, here is the way I see it likely happening.
All the necrons show up on a planet and harvest it utterly, no chance of survivival at all. However, the SC forces take down the necron ships, necron ships sound preety darn tough, but they can only do so much against swarms of scourges backed up by the terrans and protoss. Also, an arbiter could throw a few of the necron ships into statis fields, isolating them until the Tombship gets blasted.
Necrons now have no ships, necrons now cannot get off the recently harvested planet.
Protoss glass said planet, then the terrans make a performance of Korhal 2: Overkill just to be safe.Unstoppable necron army is useless because it can't go anywhere and just got toasted.
SC Wins.

[lipe44]

"They presumably infest the crew"

A tank is sealed, how they would get in like that?

"If you don't know anything about Warhammer you should do some more research before trying to debate about it."

I remenber over 50 threads that contained a Warhammer race so i pretty much know a lot about it, i also read some about in wiki but as i wasnt looking for what it was only how the races were i dont remenber.

[Ganurath]

They infest tanks so why not a pariahs?Come to think of it, Necrons are made of living metal... How living is living enough to be infested? Odds are the skin on the Flayed Ones could house some Broodling spores too...

Oh, and those claws thw Wraiths and Flayed Ones use? I thought they only pass through nonliving material effortlessly. So, wouldn't chitin help?

[Lord_Asmodeus]

The queen uses acid which can bore through tank hulls, and it infests the crew. a queen could presumably use the acid on the pariahs, but they wouldn't get infected as they aren't actually made of biological parts anymore, plus Queens are supposed to be rather rare.

[Zenos]

"They presumably infest the crew"

A tank is sealed, how they would get in like that?

"If you don't know anything about Warhammer you should do some more research before trying to debate about it."

I remenber over 50 threads that contained a Warhammer race so i pretty much know a lot about it, i also read some about in wiki but as i wasnt looking for what it was only how the races were i dont remenber.

For the first one, they presumably eat their way through the weak points in the tank.

For the second one, ok, but I think you should look on the games workshop website and/or find some other source of necron fluff than trusting wiki and gamers.

[Zenos]

Come to think of it, Necrons are made of living metal... How living is living enough to be infested? Odds are the skin on the Flayed Ones could house some Broodling spores too...

Oh, and those claws thw Wraiths and Flayed Ones use? I thought they only pass through nonliving material effortlessly. So, wouldn't chitin help?

It seems to work against any armour. It is just that in game power weapons only affects armour. When we talk about phase blades, they have to go material so they can hurt someone. I don't know how it coordinates it, but it works.

[Ganurath]

The queen uses acid which can bore through tank hulls, and it infests the crew. a queen could presumably use the acid on the pariahs, but they wouldn't get infected as they aren't actually made of biological parts anymore, plus Queens are supposed to be rather rare.Actually, Pariahs do have biobits on them still, enough to plant a tracer egg for when they teleport back to wherever their (until the teleport) safe haven is.

Wave 1: Goes like Bloddy tells it: Necrons claim the planet, the combined force of Scourge, Yamato, and Arbiter powers takes the Necron fleet, glass the planet. Zerg go planetside to take the vacancy the others races can't adapt to, preperations are made for the next attack because they saw the ships teleport away.

Wave 2: The only reason they make it planetside is because Kerrigan insists they let them. Queens get broodling eggs with a newly evolved delayed hatch that triggers when the host is teleported to nuzzle up to Pariah organs and Flayed One skins. After destroying the Necron fleet again, orbital bombardment takes out the Monoliths so that the Zerg can use attrition to beat back the Necrons, forcing them to teleport out.

Wave 3: Broodlings hatch inside the Necron repair place, hold out long enough for Kerrigan to figure out what planet to glass. She points at the map, and between the power of Korhal and the Protoss fleet's experience at glassing planets, all it takes is another fleet victory to take the Necrons out for good.

[lipe44]

For the first one, they presumably eat their way through the weak points in the tank.

For the second one, ok, but I think you should look on the games workshop website and/or find some other source of necron fluff than trusting wiki and gamers.

Well... You know if it works in a reaver?

Maybe but the only reason i am here is that every warhammer topic people seem to think warhammer wins easily and it annoys me.

[Zenos]

Kerrigan isn't involved, she is a special character, therefore, no. Likewise with the c'tan.

[Ganurath]

Kerrigan isn't involved, she is a special character, therefore, no. Likewise with the c'tan.Kerrigan isn't on the battlefield, but she is directly controlling the Zerg, and their physical representative. Refusing her (in this role) would be like refusing the Tau their Ethereal.

[Oslecamo]

Kerrigan isn't on the battlefield, but she is directly controlling the Zerg, and their physical representative. Refusing her (in this role) would be like refusing the Tau their Ethereal.

Unfortenetaly, like any good leader, Kerrigan seeks to stay far away from any kind of fighting.

[Ganurath]

Unfortenetaly, like any good leader, Kerrigan seeks to stay far away from any kind of fighting.Exactly. She isn't present at the fighting itself, she's just there with the other race's tactical leaders to coordinate because she's the only Zerg capable of verbal communication that the others don't need to worry about exploding.

[Zenos]

The point is that the necrons wiped next to all life from a whole galaxy whilst waging a war with a bitter enemy, the Old Ones. Have any of the SC races ever done anything to match that? Five thousand is a huge force by necron standards (as far as I understand).

[Pronounceable]

Maybe but the only reason i am here is that every warhammer topic people seem to think warhammer wins easily and it annoys me.

That's mainly because 40k is designed to be as ridiculously strong as DBZ. And SC is an "inspiration" of it, but on pitifully smaller in scale (really, Blizzard was going to make a 40k game but that didn't work out. still Terran=IoM, Zerg=Tyranid, Protoss=Eldar. maybe you heard at early design stages of SC there were orcs?). As it is, any army from 40k is far superior to anything SC universe has to offer. Maybe except for Tau.

[Ganurath]

The point is that the necrons wiped next to all life from a whole galaxy whilst waging a war with a bitter enemy, the Old Ones. Have any of the SC races ever done anything to match that? Five thousand is a huge force by necron standards (as far as I understand).Umm... Actually, it was the rise of the Chaos gods turning the creations of the Old Ones against them that ended that war, the only credit the Necrons get is throwing the first stone.

[sikyon]

5000 warriors and 11 ships won't be enough to take on all 3 races in a flat out war, but they could easily harvest 10 planets. They could do that before anyone could respond in force. Besides, in order to defeat a necron fleet with superior numbers you'd have to force a decisive engagement with them, something virtually impossible to do thanks to their ability to not only simply dissapear, but also thanks to their incredibly fast starship drives, ship stealth abilities and auto-repair.

Feedback wouldn't work on a C'tan, a C'tan is flat out too powerful. If a Dark Archon could Feedback a C'tan then it would have to be capable of causing a star to go nova. That's the energy level you're talking about with C'tan.

Edit: Oh by the dark gods of chaos you people are woefully misinformed about c'tan.


Umm... Actually, it was the rise of the Chaos gods turning the creations of the Old Ones against them that ended that war, the only credit the Necrons get is throwing the first stone.

The Old Ones were already defeated, but the eldar and their rampant use of chaos started to turn the war against the necrons because the C'tan had killed themselves until there were only 4 left. Then the enslavers came and started ripping all the psionic races into shreds.

Chaos gods were not even born at that point.

[Lostintransit]

Having just wiki'd the Starcraft races (Never played the games but have heard of them), and reading what people have written about them I have to hand this to the necrons for one simple reason, psionic blocking.

The Necrons have access to technology which negates pyschic/magic/psionic powers and calms the warp to a simple plane of existance. Now reading about how both the protoss and zerg rely on psionic power it renders them effectively useless.

Also when people say 'living metal' they mean it regenerates stupidly fast (like the T-1000). Also the necron ships would wipe out almost any fleet sent to destroy them. For a start they can render whatever sensors on your ship useless, and travel fast than light without needing to enter a 'warp/hyper drive' etc type of speed, the just simply accelerate.

Side note, have any of the Starcraft races built a Dyson Sphere? The necrons have, they use it for the C'tan to feed of its energy.

I'm pretty sure the Starcraft races are good, but when its against necrons, they ain't got a chance.

[Ganurath]

Having just wiki'd the Starcraft races (Never played the games but have heard of them), and reading what people have written about them I have to hand this to the necrons for one simple reason, psionic blocking.I'll be sure to issue the neccesary corrections.
The Necrons have access to technology which negates pyschic/magic/psionic powers and calms the warp to a simple plane of existance. Now reading about how both the protoss and zerg rely on psionic power it renders them effectively useless.If you pay careful attention to Warhammer world psionics, you know that the Warp stuff came into play from an overuse of psionics. The Protoss and Zerg, with exceptions for the Templar caste, use it at a very minimal level for communication. The only ones who would be influenced by the Warp leveling would be the Dark Templar, who would be (gasp!) visible.
Also when people say 'living metal' they mean it regenerates stupidly fast (like the T-1000). Also the necron ships would wipe out almost any fleet sent to destroy them. For a start they can render whatever sensors on your ship useless, and travel fast than light without needing to enter a 'warp/hyper drive' etc type of speed, the just simply accelerate.Reality check: The Yamato Cannon packs the power of 12.5 nukes. A nuke packs 500 megatons, and the IG's big ships throw around megatons of firepower. Tell me, can the Necron fleet stand up to 6,250 IG capital ships focusing all their firepower at each Necron vessel individually? And that's without smaller ships providing support fire, or the Protoss and Zerg allies.
Side note, have any of the Starcraft races built a Dyson Sphere? The necrons have, they use it for the C'tan to feed of its energy.I got money on the Xel'Naga, Old Ones of the Star Craft universe. (Come to think of it, the Xel'Naga were from another galaxy...)
I'm pretty sure the Starcraft races are good, but when its against necrons, they ain't got a chance.Ah, but the Necrons are up against something they're only faced (and failed against) in the Order campaign of Winter Assault: Enemies willing to put their differences aside to kill a common threat.

[TK-Squared]

Umm... Actually, it was the rise of the Chaos gods turning the creations of the Old Ones against them that ended that war, the only credit the Necrons get is throwing the first stone.

The war ended because of the Enslaver Plague. It wasn't defeating the Necrons, but it was killing everything else. So, the Necrons retreated until there was life in the universe again for them to devour.

Points about superior Necron might have already been made.

[sikyon]

Side note, have any of the Starcraft races built a Dyson Sphere? The necrons have, they use it for the C'tan to feed of its energy.


This is blatant conjecture, unless you can provide a source. Unless new fluff was published, this is total theory, not fact.


Reality check: The Yamato Cannon packs the power of 12.5 nukes. A nuke packs 500 megatons, and the IG's big ships throw around megatons of firepower. Tell me, can the Necron fleet stand up to 6,250 IG capital ships focusing all their firepower at each Necron vessel individually?

A nuke packs 500 megatons? Where do you get that idea from? The most powerful nuclear weapon ever tested on earth was 50 megatons. The most powerful nuclear weapon ever designed was 100 megatons. The standard MIRV warhead in active service packs less than a EDIT:megaton of power (I think). Also where did you get this reference to yamato power. If Terran Nukes pack 500 megatons, they are grossly inefficient as well.

Anyhow, Yes, a Necron ship can stand up to that kind of firepower. Imperial navy ships throw nuclear level bombs around like candy. Also, for the record, Imperial Guard Possess no spaceships whatsoever.

Finally, Yes, a Necron ship could stand up to 6000 Ships, by virtue of its ability to just phase out.

[Lostintransit]

I'll be sure to issue the neccesary corrections.If you pay careful attention to Warhammer world psionics, you know that the Warp stuff came into play from an overuse of psionics. The Protoss and Zerg, with exceptions for the Templar caste, use it at a very minimal level for communication. The only ones who would be influenced by the Warp leveling would be the Dark Templar, who would be (gasp!) visible.

Um, well why were people arguing that the protoss use psionic blades and such? The necrons anti psionic/warp stuff renders it mute. (Seeing how psionics/magic/pyskers all come from the same source in 40k and that the necron negate it all) So the protoss lose all their fancy psi stuff, not just communication.


Reality check: The Yamato Cannon packs the power of 12.5 nukes. A nuke packs 500 megatons, and the IG's big ships throw around megatons of firepower. Tell me, can the Necron fleet stand up to 6,250 IG capital ships focusing all their firepower at each Necron vessel individually? And that's without smaller ships providing support fire, or the Protoss and Zerg allies.

If the Terrans could even hit the Necrons, all their targeting systems wouldn't work, or better yet, how about necrons phased directly onto the bridge of your ships? All your command crew dead in minutes. And yes the necrons can survive stupid abouts of firepower, for example the IOM has a shell that has the explosive capabilities of a super nova. Necron ships can survive with almost no ill effects from repeated hits from such shells!


I got money on the Xel'Naga, Old Ones of the Star Craft universe. (Come to think of it, the Xel'Naga were from another galaxy...)

So none of the races the necrons are fighting then! And the Xel'Naga, from what wiki says, created the protoss and zerg and used loads of psionics? The Necrons fought a galaxly spanning war which almost wiped out the Old Ones (the guys who made the orks, eldar, etc) who were unmatched in their mastered of psionics/magic etc. Sounds like the necrons already fought this war and effectively won!


Ah, but the Necrons are up against something they're only faced (and failed against) in the Order campaign of Winter Assault: Enemies willing to put their differences aside to kill a common threat.

Lol, this is so funny, RTS computer games are made for balance so that each side has an even chance of winning (In theory at least!) but if they did necrons for real the other races would lose almost instantly! If you beat necron raids the just come back with more forces + all the ones from the first battle. All you can do against necrons is stall like mad! Or prey you find they homeworld before you die. An example the IOM sacrifies and entire world+ at least 1 regiment of Guard so that a squad of Deathwatch can track to a necron world then destroy a single fixer chamber, which then promtley wakes up the world making it an even bigger threat than before!!!

EDIT: sikyon - Its in the necron codex, their is an object in space which the IOM cannot get even close to, but long range magnification reveals it to be a necron dyson sphere! :smallbiggrin:

[Zenos]

This is blatant conjecture, unless you can provide a source. Unless new fluff was published, this is total theory, not fact.



A nuke packs 500 megatons? Where do you get that idea from? The most powerful nuclear weapon ever tested on earth was 50 megatons. The most powerful nuclear weapon ever designed was 100 megatons. The standard MIRV warhead in active service packs less than a EDIT:megaton of power (I think). Also where did you get this reference to yamato power. If Terran Nukes pack 500 megatons, they are grossly inefficient as well.

Anyhow, Yes, a Necron ship can stand up to that kind of firepower. Imperial navy ships throw nuclear level bombs around like candy. Also, for the record, Imperial Guard Possess no spaceships whatsoever.

Finally, Yes, a Necron ship could stand up to 6000 Ships, by virtue of its ability to just phase out.

So yes, a necron craft can stand against 6000 IG ship's firepower. 6000 x 0 = 0.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

I'll be sure to issue the neccesary corrections.If you pay careful attention to Warhammer world psionics, you know that the Warp stuff came into play from an overuse of psionics. The Protoss and Zerg, with exceptions for the Templar caste, use it at a very minimal level for communication. The only ones who would be influenced by the Warp leveling would be the Dark Templar, who would be (gasp!) visible.

No... the warp has ALWAYS BEEN THERE, Pylons and other warp blocking things are designed to seal off the power of psykers as the Necrons are weak to this. Pylons limit ALL SUCH ACTIVITY in its vicinity, and its existence blocks some of the overall power (I.E. everywhere its more limited with the existence of the pylon, and around it there is NONE) so all pschic communication would be negated, all psychic control of zerg would end, the ghosts psychic abilities would be useless, and Dark Templar would be (gasp!) VISIBLE, thus largely negating their advantage.

[Zenos]

Hmmm, i wonder if we added a regiment of IG (with a pair of baneblades and a warhound) and a small splinter fleet (like, just a few thousand) tyranids into the mix, how badly would the odds be for the SC crew? I know it doesn't make sense for Tyranids, Necrons and IG to cooperate but still...

[Lostintransit]

Hmmm, i wonder if we added a regiment of IG (with a pair of baneblades and a warhound) and a small splinter fleet (like, just a few thousand) tyranids into the mix, how badly would the odds be for the SC crew? I know it doesn't make sense for Tyranids, Necrons and IG to cooperate but still...

How great would living metal baneblades be? :smallbiggrin:

The Sc stand a very small chance as it is, with the other stuff it just makes it worse!

[WalkingTarget]

Lol, this is so funny, RTS computer games are made for balance so that each side has an even chance of winning (In theory at least!) but if they did necrons for real the other races would lose almost instantly!

Ok, so I have no investment in either WH franchise, but if that's the Necron's status, then there's no point in putting them in a thread with RTS factions, of any kind, ever.

You're basically saying that Star Craft loses because it is a fun/well designed game that doesn't include a faction similar to the Necrons.

Edit - the more I read this thread, the more the Necrons sound like the WH40K version of "Rocks fall, everyone dies", they win because they're written to be unbeatable.

[Lostintransit]

Ok, so I have no investment in either WH franchise, but if that's the Necron's status, then there's no point in putting them in a thread with RTS factions, of any kind, ever.

You're basically saying that Star Craft loses because it is a fun/well designed game that doesn't include a faction similar to the Necrons.

No what I was trying to say was that the necrons in DOW are not a true representation of the necron 'race' as they are designed to be balanced against the other races without them being an insta win. But done as they are described then the necrons would win, maybe not every battle, but almost certainly the war.

[WalkingTarget]

No what I was trying to say was that the necrons in DOW are not a true representation of the necron 'race' as they are designed to be balanced against the other races without them being an insta win. But done as they are described then the necrons would win, maybe not every battle, but almost certainly the war.

That's the point I tried to make when I went back and added in my edit section below what you quoted here. My understanding of WH (and correct me if I'm wrong here) is that it grew out of the Tabletop/Roleplaying/Computer games (which are therefore supposed to be "balanced") but then people started writing fiction within the setting (or, heck, maybe even the fluff within the rulebooks) that essentially makes them unbeatable.

Edit - damn it, I hate when I think of alternate readings on the 4th reading (generally post after going over 2 or 3 times). Did you mean that the "true representation" is the balanced one? If so, this post can pretty much be disregarded.

[Zenos]

That's the point I tried to make when I went back and added in my edit section below what you quoted here. My understanding of WH (and correct me if I'm wrong here) is that it grew out of the Tabletop/Roleplaying/Computer games (which are therefore supposed to be "balanced") but then people started writing fiction within the setting (or, heck, maybe even the fluff within the rulebooks) that essentially makes them unbeatable.

Or, of course, someone starts by making some cool fluff, then starts saying v"O my god, those would never make a good army in-game, well, guess I'll nerf them a little mechanichs-wise then.

[WalkingTarget]

Or, of course, someone starts by making some cool fluff, then starts saying v"O my god, those would never make a good army in-game, well, guess I'll nerf them a little mechanichs-wise then.

Yeah, but then that goes back to my first point. If they had to be nerfed to make sense in a strategy game, why bother setting them up against opponents that operate under those restrictions as a matter of course?

[Lostintransit]

That's the point I tried to make when I went back and added in my edit section below what you quoted here. My understanding of WH (and correct me if I'm wrong here) is that it grew out of the Tabletop/Roleplaying/Computer games (which are therefore supposed to be "balanced") but then people started writing fiction within the setting (or, heck, maybe even the fluff within the rulebooks) that essentially makes them unbeatable.

Edit - damn it, I hate when I think of alternate readings on the 4th reading (generally post after going over 2 or 3 times). Did you mean that the "true representation" is the balanced one? If so, this post can pretty much be disregarded.

Well what probaly happened was their was the first edition rules which were hazy at best with some cool stories, then as the mechanics became more refined the fluff got cooler and cooler resulting in a difference of fluff and mechancis. It is widely known that the table top game tones down a number of races to make them a viable race for the game. (It also allows them to sell more, but hey!) A good example is Space Marines, if done as per fluff for an army all you would need is 5 men! (doesn't make money that way!) hence the balancing factor.

[Zenos]

Yeah, but then that goes back to my first point. If they had to be nerfed to make sense in a strategy game, why bother setting them up against opponents that operate under those restrictions as a matter of course?

Because fluff came first, and someone wanted to use it even though it meant they weren't as powerful as they are hinted to be in fluff.

EDIT: The person above me made a much better argument than me.

[Lostintransit]

Because fluff came first, and someone wanted to use it even though it meant they weren't as powerful as they are hinted to be in fluff.

EDIT: The person above me made a much better argument than me.

Wow thats a first! :smallsmile:

Walking Target - The OP picked this Vs fight not me so I cannot say why he thought it was fair, I suppose it was due to all the X Vs Starcraft threads around.

[WalkingTarget]

Ok, that's cool and it all makes sense and I see that my initial post was in response to a slightly mis-read comment (I missed that the "other races losing instantly" applied to 40k as well as SC).

So which version of 40k is StarCraft expected to fight, the "balanced" game version or the "unbalanced" fluff version? Because having awesome fluff is one thing, but any fight between fluff of that nature and something as rigidly balanced as RTS factions is going to be a one-sided vs. thread almost by definition (again, as Lostin actually seems to have meant, which means we're in agreement here).

Edit @Lostintransit - sorry, I was mostly addressing the thread in general anyway. Your post just had the line that catalyzed the thought (even if I misread it :smallredface: ).

[Era]

Near the end, when the Necrons are about to win, the Imperial guard shows up and kills the Necrons, and then kills the protoss and Zerg, and gets drunk with the Terrans. And the Necrons aren't really dead, they just wait for the party and kill survivors. :)

[Lostintransit]

Ok, that's cool and it all makes sense and I see that my initial post was in response to a slightly mis-read comment (I missed that the "other races losing instantly" applied to 40k as well as SC).

So which version of 40k is StarCraft expected to fight, the "balanced" game version or the "unbalanced" fluff version? Because having awesome fluff is one thing, but any fight between fluff of that nature and something as rigidly balanced as RTS factions is going to be a one-sided vs. thread almost by definition (again, as Lostin actually seems to have meant, which means we're in agreement here).

Edit @Lostintranslation - sorry, I was mostly addressing the thread in general anyway. Your post just had the line that catalyzed the thought (even if I misread it :smallredface: ).

Yeah we agree! Its great when people don't misunderstand internet posts! Yeah! do the happy dance! :smallsmile:

In answer to your question, i believe the OP wanted the necrons to fight with fluff versions as he has included ships and they only show up in fluff or a pure ship v ship game, any game of 40k involving a necron ship as an actual model goes, turn 1, we remove all the boards making up the table, all thats on them is dead, oh apart from the necrons which phased back on board their own ships! :smallsmile:

Edit - D**m fast! you edited my name before i could even post! neato! :smallbiggrin:

EDIT - Super Neato power up! I'm now a halfling!

[Zenos]

Yeah we agree! Its great when people don't misunderstand internet posts! Yeah! do the happy dance! :smallsmile:

In answer to your question, i believe the OP wanted the necrons to fight with fluff versions as he has included ships and they only show up in fluff or a pure ship v ship game, any game of 40k involving a necron ship as an actual model goes, turn 1, we remove all the boards making up the table, all thats on them is dead, oh apart from the necrons which phased back on board their own ships! :smallsmile:

Edit - D**m fast! you edited my name before i could even post! neato! :smallbiggrin:

EDIT - Super Neato power up! I'm now a halfling!

I actually based the necron fleet forces on a BFG battle report in a White Dwarf.

[sikyon]

Edit - the more I read this thread, the more the Necrons sound like the WH40K version of "Rocks fall, everyone dies", they win because they're written to be unbeatable.

No, in space they are driven off (but rarely do they actually lose ships) by superior numbers of ridiculously powerful spaceships.

On the ground, it's really really hard to beat them. If you do, they still phase out and come back later.

Strategy in space is to board necron ships, plant charges and get out. Strategy on the ground is to infiltrate necron tombs, plant bombs, and get out.

Yeah, necrons are to space marines what space marines are to imperial guard.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Yeah, necrons are to space marines what space marines are to imperial guard.

Yeah, that seems like a pretty good description. From what I understand of Necrons (and thats fairly hazy since I know much more about Tyranids) they fit the slot of 'uber-powerful so they can field less units' niche in table-top and RTS type of games. You know the ones I'm talkin' about. They only have six guys but the effort to bring down those six guys is absolutely phenomenal.

Hence the accepted way to beat Necrons is to outnumber them (not hard but we're talking like 4/1) with units of better then average combat ability. Same in space. Except in space the Necron's main advantage (they have amazingly advanced technology, even for WH) becomes even more apparent and more disheartening to their attacks. Any given Necron ship can take down any other ship of equivilant size or even larger. Smaller ones would...well lets just not talk about that, m'kay? To quote, They can take an absolutely morale murderin' amount of fire and dish it out in greater quantities then their taking.

[Oslecamo]

A nuke packs 500 megatons? Where do you get that idea from? The most powerful nuclear weapon ever tested on earth was 50 megatons. The most powerful nuclear weapon ever designed was 100 megatons. The standard MIRV warhead in active service packs less than a EDIT:megaton of power (I think). Also where did you get this reference to yamato power. If Terran Nukes pack 500 megatons, they are grossly inefficient as well.


From wikipedia, nuclear bomb:

A major challenge in all nuclear weapon designs is to ensure that a significant fraction of the fuel is consumed before the weapon destroys itself. The amount of energy released by fission bombs can range between the equivalent of less than a ton of TNT upwards to around 500,000 tons

You can question wikipedia. But I might remember you that wikipedia is as reliable as any WH40k fluff. And then, it would only ne natural for the terran to have improved normal nuclear bombs.

But wait! Acording to the starcraft 2 site:
The Yamato cannon is a terrifying weapon that uses an intense magnetic field to focus a nuclear detonation into a cohesive beam of energy.

So, since the explosion is focused in a beam and not wasted in a spherical explosion, the potency is risen to the cube. So we have 12.5 exp 14 megatons worth of energy. This is a LOT of energy. I don't care what the necrons are made off, this is enough to melt the rock around them and simply trap them inside the planet. Then they can only retreat. And when they return they are trapped again. Repeat and profit.

Also, you may remember that necrons ALWAYS retreat when only 25% of their original necron numbers, so the SC guys just need to focus fire on the warriors, wich are the weakest of the bunch. Yeah, they're tough, but they'll die with focused fire. All those skimmers and obelisks will disapear once you manage to rout the basic warriors.

[puppyavenger]

Seriously, C'Tan are "Gods" and I really doubt a Dark Archon, or even a lot of them could channel a C'Tan's power. Especially the Nightbringers, whom I believe is the second strongest of the remaining four.

Four? I thought there was just the Void Dragon, NightBringer, Deciever and a unstated number of unmentioned ones

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Four? I thought there was just the Void Dragon, NightBringer, Deciever and a unstated number of unmentioned ones

Theres the Void Dragon, the Night Dragon, the Deceiver, and the Outsider, all the other were devoured by the four mentioned, the Outsider is an insane C'tan (He's insane because the Laughing God tricked him into eating other C'tan in a way that drove him mad, I believe he currently resides in the Dyson Sphere)

[Eita]

Have Battlecruisers destroyed entire mountains in a single shot? I don't believe so.

[sikyon]

From wikipedia, nuclear bomb:

A major challenge in all nuclear weapon designs is to ensure that a significant fraction of the fuel is consumed before the weapon destroys itself. The amount of energy released by fission bombs can range between the equivalent of less than a ton of TNT upwards to around 500,000 tons

You can question wikipedia. But I might remember you that wikipedia is as reliable as any WH40k fluff. And then, it would only ne natural for the terran to have improved normal nuclear bombs.

But wait! Acording to the starcraft 2 site:
The Yamato cannon is a terrifying weapon that uses an intense magnetic field to focus a nuclear detonation into a cohesive beam of energy.

So, since the explosion is focused in a beam and not wasted in a spherical explosion, the potency is risen to the cube. So we have 12.5 exp 14 megatons worth of energy. This is a LOT of energy. I don't care what the necrons are made off, this is enough to melt the rock around them and simply trap them inside the planet. Then they can only retreat. And when they return they are trapped again. Repeat and profit.

Also, you may remember that necrons ALWAYS retreat when only 25% of their original necron numbers, so the SC guys just need to focus fire on the warriors, wich are the weakest of the bunch. Yeah, they're tough, but they'll die with focused fire. All those skimmers and obelisks will disapear once you manage to rout the basic warriors.

Dude 500 000 tons is 500 kilotons. That's Less than 1 megaton.

Edit: Also, I have no idea where the number 12.5^14 came from.

[Eita]

Shh.... Let him figure it out by himself.

Also, I find it offensive that he says that fluff is as questionable as Wikipedia.

[Callos_DeTerran]

So, since the explosion is focused in a beam and not wasted in a spherical explosion, the potency is risen to the cube. So we have 12.5 exp 14 megatons worth of energy. This is a LOT of energy. I don't care what the necrons are made off, this is enough to melt the rock around them and simply trap them inside the planet. Then they can only retreat. And when they return they are trapped again. Repeat and profit.

Also, you may remember that necrons ALWAYS retreat when only 25% of their original necron numbers, so the SC guys just need to focus fire on the warriors, wich are the weakest of the bunch. Yeah, they're tough, but they'll die with focused fire. All those skimmers and obelisks will disapear once you manage to rout the basic warriors.

Or you know..just teleport out. Also Yamato cannon may FOCUS the energy but it's still explosive from what I remember so it'd just make a big hole anyway.


As for the Necrons retreating, you do know that their vehicles repair or bring in new Necrons right?

Also fluff, actual GW fluff, is not questionable. It's fact. (To a degree when novels are thrown in since different Authors have different prefrences). Wikipedia is not only mutable but is usually changed often. Fluff is not nearly as questionable as Wiki.
In an unrelated note I find it fairly interesting that I've never seen you FOR WH 40K Oslecamo. Especially when it's against Starcraft.

[Ubiq]

Theres the Void Dragon, the Night Dragon, the Deceiver, and the Outsider, all the other were devoured by the four mentioned,


Those four are the only ones known and may not be all of them; going by some of the fluff, there might be at least one more out there. At a guess though, the four named ones are far more dangerous than any of their brethern that might have also managed to survive.



the Outsider is an insane C'tan (He's insane because the Laughing God tricked him into eating other C'tan in a way that drove him mad, I believe he currently resides in the Dyson Sphere)

Don't some sources suggest that it was actually the Deceiver in a disguise who tricked him into doing that?

Anyway, it's suspected that he's in the Dyson Sphere though he might be on that rogue planet that Hive Fleet Leviathan side-stepped. At any rate, he's in that region of space.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Well the Deciever got the 3 other crons (himself the NightBringer, and the Void Dragon) to eat other C'tan, but they did it right, it was the Laughing God that actually TRICKED the Outsider into doing it the other way so he would go insane.

[WalkingTarget]

Dude 500 000 tons is 500 kilotons. That's Less than 1 megaton.

Edit: Also, I have no idea where the number 12.5^14 came from.

Right, but Oles also said fission bomb. This is totally ignoring thermonuclear devices. I am unaware of an upper-limit (though I'm sure there is one) on those. Largest detonated = 50 megatons, largest designed = 100 megatons (at least, that is public knowledge).

[Ganurath]

Have Battlecruisers destroyed entire mountains in a single shot? I don't believe so.Only a daft manling would attack a m- Wait, no dwarves. Point stands though: Why would a Battlecruiser be shooting a mountain?

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Only a daft manling would attack a m- Wait, no dwarves. Point stands though: Why would a Battlecruiser be shooting a mountain?

I dunno, maybe someone made a base in a mountain, thats how we know that 40k battleships can destroy mountains (fairly easily, it was a single lance cannon blast, but to be fair the lance cannons are some of the more powerful guns on a ship) :smalltongue:

[puppyavenger]

No what I was trying to say was that the necrons in DOW are not a true representation of the necron 'race' as they are designed to be balanced against the other races without them being an insta win. But done as they are described then the necrons would win, maybe not every battle, but almost certainly the war.

To put it in perspective, The Tyranids ignore tomb planets, The Tyranids first, and smallest, and dumbest, and weakest fleet almost destroyed the yltramarines and it took an emporer class ships self destruction to kill it.
also

Hmmm, i wonder if we added a regiment of IG (with a pair of baneblades and a warhound) and a small splinter fleet (like, just a few thousand) tyranids into the mix, how badly would the odds be for the SC crew? I know it doesn't make sense for Tyranids, Necrons and IG to cooperate but still...

The shadow drives Phykers insane, so just count out the Protoss then

[Callos_DeTerran]

To put it in perspective, The Tyranids ignore tomb planets, The Tyranids first, and smallest, and dumbest, and weakest fleet almost destroyed the yltramarines and it took an emporer class ships self destruction to kill it.
also

Tyranids ignore tomb planets for a very simple reason...theres nothing to gain. They can't break down necrodermis and it takes a metric ton of effort to bring down tomb worlds, effort they can't just re-absorb back and respawn.

>.> And the first Hive Fleet was definitely not the smallest or weakest. It was simply the most straightforward and blunt. Granted, such an approach was ill-advised but all of the Hive Fleets have been equally deadly for different reasons.

[Zenos]

Tyranids ignore tomb planets for a very simple reason...theres nothing to gain. They can't break down necrodermis and it takes a metric ton of effort to bring down tomb worlds, effort they can't just re-absorb back and respawn.

>.> And the first Hive Fleet was definitely not the smallest or weakest. It was simply the most straightforward and blunt. Granted, such an approach was ill-advised but all of the Hive Fleets have been equally deadly for different reasons.

And the necrons avoid the tyranid hive fleets because the Tyranids don't have "souls" or maybe the soul is hidden away in another galaxy.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Well thats the odd thing, Necron don't take "souls" per-se they take peoples life energy, a "soul" is purely a warp presence, and the Crons have nothing to do with the warp :smallwink:

[Zenos]

Well thats the odd thing, Necron don't take "souls" per-se they take peoples life energy, a "soul" is purely a warp presence, and the Crons have nothing to do with the warp :smallwink:

Anyways, whatever it is, the 'Crons can't harvest it.

[turkishproverb]

So yes, a necron craft can stand against 6000 IG ship's firepower. 6000 x 0 = 0.

Wrong, he said IMperierial NAVY ships, which is the space combat branch of the Imperial armed forces. Kind've like the guard is the ground branch, transported by the navy.

[sikyon]

Right, but Oles also said fission bomb. This is totally ignoring thermonuclear devices. I am unaware of an upper-limit (though I'm sure there is one) on those. Largest detonated = 50 megatons, largest designed = 100 megatons (at least, that is public knowledge).

No this is incorrect. This is a fission - fusion - fission reaction to create these types of weapons. Just fusion doesn't get that high currently.


Well the Deciever got the 3 other crons (himself the NightBringer, and the Void Dragon) to eat other C'tan, but they did it right, it was the Laughing God that actually TRICKED the Outsider into doing it the other way so he would go insane.

Deciever convinced nightbringer to do it, then other c'tan followed suit. Continue until only 4 left.

Outsider was tricked though, we don't know why he wasn't able to stomach eating other c'tan.



Anyways, whatever it is, the 'Crons can't harvest it.

The electrical energy made by sentiant beings in their brains is what C'tan find deliecious. Doesn't give them energy at all (the main course are stars) but they find sentiant brain energy delicious. They also like to be worshipped.



Those four are the only ones known and may not be all of them; going by some of the fluff, there might be at least one more out there. At a guess though, the four named ones are far more dangerous than any of their brethern that might have also managed to survive.


Officially according to codex only 4, but in Books there was one more that was discovered (but this is obviously not perhaps cannon).


And the necrons avoid the tyranid hive fleets because the Tyranids don't have "souls" or maybe the soul is hidden away in another galaxy.


Neither nids or crons have anything to gain from fighting each other. nids are not sentiant, crons are not organic. But they may fight if they want to target the same world.


Wrong, he said IMperierial NAVY ships, which is the space combat branch of the Imperial armed forces. Kind've like the guard is the ground branch, transported by the navy.

Wrong, he was referencing this:


Tell me, can the Necron fleet stand up to 6,250 IG capital ships focusing all their firepower at each Necron vessel individually?

[Eita]

All Black Library novels are canon. Unless of course a new piece of fluff contradicts it. Then the new piece supersedes it.

[sikyon]

All Black Library novels are canon. Unless of course a new piece of fluff contradicts it. Then the new piece supersedes it.

Codex should supercede novels, though.

[Eita]

Oh, it does.

Now then, did it explicitly state that only four C'tan were still alive?

[Callos_DeTerran]

Oh, it does.

Now then, did it explicitly state that only four C'tan were still alive?

Considering I just read through it out of interest, it mentions until only 4 were left on a couple of occasions. Whither thats all that were seen afterwards or what is unsaid.

[sikyon]

Oh, it does.

Now then, did it explicitly state that only four C'tan were still alive?

Yeah, quite a few times. Though it's possible that there are ones, perhaps even unwoken ones. It's a tad hazy, and there is room for interpretation, but yes, generally it flat out says there are only 4 left. At least out of "normal" c'tan.

[Destro_Yersul]

There's the Nightbringer and the Deceiver, of course. Then the Dragon, which people speculate is on Mars... Who's the fourth?

[Lord_Asmodeus]

The Outsider, the insane one who (supposedly) lives in the Dyson Sphere, though he might live somewhere else.

[Illiterate Scribe]

Necron Lords, even the super version, are going to get it from Dark Templar. Why? Dark Templar cloak themselves by psionically bonding with the void of space, connecting their existence to the void. Translate to 40K, they're using the Warp like a blanket. Necrons cannot detect the Warp, they have absolutely nothing to detect the Dark Templar until they start killing, at which point it's firing in the general area where the last Necron died.


Wasn't exactly the converse argued on the Protoss vs. Eldar thread, that Farseers couldn't anticipate Archons because they were so 'other' from the Warp?

[Lord_Asmodeus]

That doesn't make much sense, the Warp gives them the power to see the future, but thats not what they use (from what I can remember tell me if I'm wrong) I mean once someone draws psyker power from the warp well, they already got the power, what they do after that doesn't have to be directly tied to the warp (like shooting lightning from your fingers)

[turkishproverb]

Wrong, he was referencing this:

I stand corrected

[Eita]

Unless of course you open a portal to the warp (best and worse Librarian ability ever).

[Zenos]

Unless of course you open a portal to the warp (best and worse Librarian ability ever).

And of course, the vortex grenade, which rips a hole in reality and makes a big portal into it, and anything nearby gets killed (was it because of the gravitational forces or actualy falling into the warp? I ccan't remember).

[Eita]

They fall into the Warp.

[Zenos]

They fall into the Warp.

Ah, thank you. Was it the Wraithcannons of the Eldar which tore them to shreds with gravitational forces?

[Eita]

I think so. Anyone here have an Eldar Codex?

[Illiterate Scribe]

Wraithcannons create very small warp holes, which have a small chance of sucking their target in whole, but are more likely to simply shred their targets - like the psychic power, Vortex of Chaos, they have a very strong attractive effect - not gravity, though, since they're massless. The net effect it that you have two part of the target, on each side of the rip, pulled with impossible forces in opposite directions.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Ah, thank you. Was it the Wraithcannons of the Eldar which tore them to shreds with gravitational forces?

Yeah, your thinking of the Necron Gauss Rifles that use a magnetic field to rip apart their target on the atomic/molecular level and 'pull' them towards the gun for a net effect of 'flensing' the target.

[WalkingTarget]

No this is incorrect. This is a fission - fusion - fission reaction to create these types of weapons. Just fusion doesn't get that high currently.

I'm wondering where I ever said "fusion" in that post. I said "thermonuclear weapons", which is exactly what they are. According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba#Design) (I know, frowned upon, but I'm being lazy this morning), the 50Megaton detonation had 97% of its energy derived from the fusion reaction (and that was using lead in the sheathing instead of DU)

[sikyon]

I'm wondering where I ever said "fusion" in that post. I said "thermonuclear weapons", which is exactly what they are. According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba#Design) (I know, frowned upon, but I'm being lazy this morning), the 50Megaton detonation had 97% of its energy derived from the fusion reaction (and that was using lead in the sheathing instead of DU)

My bad, I thought that you said fusion.

I don't mind wikipedia, I find it's reasonably good on science.

You also said:


Right, but Oles also said fission bomb. This is totally ignoring thermonuclear devices. I am unaware of an upper-limit (though I'm sure there is one) on those. Largest detonated = 50 megatons, largest designed = 100 megatons (at least, that is public knowledge).

The part I bolded is the three stage bomb.

Anyhow, a quotation of 12.5 nukes into a yamato blast should be repersentative of 12.5 nukes of Terran tech level. I sincerely doubt that these are 50 megaton explosions for the same reason that Modern Day MIRV warheads were designed. That is, if you are using a bomb that big, it's much more efficient to take that bomb and turn it into 5 bombs and you'll cover much more area that way.

Anyhow, even in the 50 megaton range it's going to pack a punch but that's only 600 or so megatons in a yamato cannon blast. Assuming that we were to increase this figure 2x for the beam effect, that's like 1.2 gigatons. Very nice, but still pales in comparison to the firepower 40k is generally depicted as throwing around. While it will do alot of damage, Necron ships are intensely resliliant and difficult to target. Somthing like that, assumign for a moment that it hits, is still not going to cause critical damage to a tombship.

[Eita]

You're also forgetting the fact that the Battlecruiser would actually have to generate that much power, contain it long enough for it to- dammit. That one word, you know, where it forms and stuff. Coleus or something like that. Anyways, it would have to generate it, contain it, and fire it somehow. Even assuming that a BC can generate that much power, once it's fired it's going to lose energy.

[puppyavenger]

You're also forgetting the fact that the Battlecruiser would actually have to generate that much power, contain it long enough for it to- dammit. That one word, you know, where it forms and stuff. Coleus or something like that. Anyways, it would have to generate it, contain it, and fire it somehow. Even assuming that a BC can generate that much power, once it's fired it's going to lose energy.

Actualy, yah how the hell does a Battleccruiser draw the forukes frorce of 12.5 nukes without blowing themselves up? and doesn't a Yamatoe(sp) do LESS damage then a nuke?

[warty goblin]

Also come to think of it, if the Battlecruiser can come up with enough energy to actually direct a nuke over distance, which is very hard to do, why the hell don't they just build a really huge gauss cannon instead?

But then, as far as I can tell, the entire Terran military was designed by morons. Tanks with no close combat anti-infantry guns, soldiers without grenades, no squad based heavy weapons, a distinct lack of surface to surface missiles... the list goes on.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Also come to think of it, if the Battlecruiser can come up with enough energy to actually direct a nuke over distance, which is very hard to do, why the hell don't they just build a really huge gauss cannon instead?

But then, as far as I can tell, the entire Terran military was designed by morons. Tanks with no close combat anti-infantry guns, soldiers without grenades, no squad based heavy weapons, a distinct lack of surface to surface missiles... the list goes on.

Yea well, it WAS a game first so balance and playability were probably higher on their list than "realistic military" plus "fun" was pretty far up there.

[konfeta]

Marines actually had grenades in the Starcraft Beta. It was silly overpowered, and was removed. Just because it isn't in the game of Starcraft, doesn't mean it's not in Starcraft lore (same goes for vast majority of games out there).

I mean, take a look at almost any WW2 FPS or RTS. They remove a CRAPLOAD of stuff because of redundancy, potential imbaness, engine limitations, space limitations, time limitations, and a whole bunch of other limitations.

Hell, according to Medal of Honor there were like 2 rifles in WW2, and everyone in WW2 was a moron. According to Company of Heroes, WW2 had practically no navy. According to Counter-Strike, there are like 30 guns used tops around the planet, and everyone is a god damned moron because they use a grand total of 3 grenades.

[Oslecamo]

I remember now that at intro of broodwar some random marine in the trenches has a nifty rocket launcher wich one hit kills zerglings and seem to have homing capacities.

Never apeared in the gameplay tough.

Indeed, starcraft simply hasn't the capacity to hold a varied arsenal of weapons ingame.

WH40k has those huge books and custom chooses so the players will have to spend more money buying more minis so they can be ready for any enemy.

Plasma gun troops against heavy armor at range, flamer troops against hordes at close, melta gun troops against vehicles at close, heavy bolter troops against hordes at range, ufff, the list goes on.

Since you can't change the weapons on the miniatures you actually need to buy and paint twice the number of miniatures you actually play with just so yoy are minimally prepared.

Also WH40k players have hours to decide want they want tobring to the field of battle.

SC players have seconds.

If in SC you had to choose between 50 diferent weapon types of marines you would be randomly screwed as your oponent picked a kind of zergling that screwed your choice.

The current way we have the handy dandy marine wich can attack pretty much anything for decent damage and all players are happy.

[warty goblin]

Three words about the ability to have customizable/ability using units work in an RTS: Dawn of War.

Three more: Company of Heroes

I rest my case.

Anyways, my point was that since the majority of what we have to go on is Starcraft gameplay, the Starcraft military ends up looking really bad. If, as people are doing, there are other sources that say that units are in fact more capable than presented, I am more than happy to accept such evidence. Until such is come up with however, Starcraft gameplay is the only thing I can go from.

I'm not trying to be rude, merely to construct an argument based on the evidence available.

[LordVader]

Given the victory conditions you've stated, the Necrons will probably win. However, down the road, the Terrans, Zerg, & Protoss will join forces, and at that point the Necrons are going to get raped. Starcraft teams are balanced individually - united, they are nigh-unstoppable.

I hate to disagree, but I really don't see even the Protoss having a reliable counter for gauss technology. Zerg won't even matter, as a Necron can shrug off Zergling or Hydralisk attacks with ease.

The only SC units that can be reliably compared to each other for realism purposes are the basic, T1 units. Zergling-Marine-Zealot matchups are pretty accurate to the background.

[Selrahc]

Since you can't change the weapons on the miniatures you actually need to buy and paint twice the number of miniatures you actually play with just so yoy are minimally prepared.


Uh.. no? I never did that. For a few reasons:

1. That would require you know what army you're going to face. Which is very often not the case. Especially in tourneys where that sort of optimization might be needed.

2. Like you said, it costs a lot. And really its not wirth it because...

3. Its just not gonna make a huge difference. So one of your squads is marginally less effective than they could have been. That doesn't really matter unless you're superoptimizing a list.

4. The entire idea is flawed, since even if you did that, you'd only be getting 2 men in a ten man squad with replacement weapons.

5. Generally you can model rep. Where I play WYSIWYG isn't rigidly followed. Quite often you can just say that the guy with a flamer counts as a plasma gun.

6. Quite a few armies just don't work that way anyway.Tau have no special weapons. Neither do nids. And any player that was willing to buy a different carnifex or hive tyrant for each possible combination of weapons is pretty odd. And the Necrons have only one unit that can be customized at all!

7. Quite a few lists I've played aren't based around specific opponents at all.


Do you actually know someone who does that? I'm just not seeing it.

[Oslecamo]

Ok, I may have exagerated a bit in the buy double, but still, GW are alwasy tempting players to buy that new shiny weapon.


Three words about the ability to have customizable/ability using units work in an RTS: Dawn of War.

Three more: Company of Heroes


Nevermind that both those games came almost a decade after Starcraft.

Simply the technology wasn't available.

Also, altough DoW allows for weapon customization, it's still a lote more limited than in the tabletop game.

for example the imperial guard. Can only be equiped with plasma guns and grenade launchers, when it has a lot more possibilites in the tabletop game.

The best ones are the space marines, with 4 weapon choices.

But let's look at what the starcraft can do:
Regular SM-regular marine.
SM with flamer-firebat.
SM with heavy bolter-marine with stim pack on.
SM with plasma gun-ghost canister rifle.
SM with rocket launcher-ghost with disable
Apothecary-medic

So, really, there isn't that much of a diference between both games weapon variety.

The main diference is that in DoW weapons are raining from the sky and in Starcraft units fight with what they get out of their training base.

However, in starcraft, I can choose to have a "squad" full of firebats, or a squad of only ghosts, or have a third of my infantry be medics, or just have a lot of marines on stim packs for some crazy fast shooting.

Can the SM do this? No, they have a very limited number of squads and a limited number of heavy weapons by squad.

Also, in starcraft, I can choose to make my firebat attack the zerglings while the marines shoot at the mutas flying overhead.

In DoW your squad with rocket launchers will have their unequiped soldiers waste their bolter ammo shooting against that Killa Kan when they could be shooting against the orks for some effective damage.

You could keep your squads at 4 mens each and fully equip them, but this will end up being a waste of requisition as several small squads are much easier killed than large squads, and a weapon costs as most as a SM, yet offers no defense bonus.

So your regular starcraft army isn't as moron as it may seem at first glance.