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View Full Version : What Exactly is CoDzilla?



SithLackey
2008-01-25, 06:25 PM
Forgive the ignorance, but I've never actually seen a description or build for it. Most people just say "CoDzilla=Win Button". So, exactly what spells and/or feats are needed here?

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-01-25, 06:28 PM
Druid. Boost wis and con. Take natural spell and a fleshraker animal. Pick good forms. Win. I could stat it out, but you could take toughness for your other 6 feats and still be god.

Mad Wizard
2008-01-25, 06:30 PM
CoDzilla stands for Cleric or Druid zilla. Effectively, it's a build that's more effective than the fighter in melee while still having many more features on top of that. Druids do it with wild shape, natural spell, and their animal companion, Clerics use buff spells and heavy armor.

AslanCross
2008-01-25, 06:38 PM
I believe it also involved using miracle to copy the 7th Level Wu Jen spell giant size, practically turning your cleric into Godzilla. (A 20th level caster could go to colossal size with it).

Newtkeeper
2008-01-25, 06:51 PM
Note that CoDzilla is not a single build. It is more a philosophy of how to play a cleric.

This philosophy involves buffing oneself, however you see fit. The end result is, as stated, something that can outfight a fighter, call down divine lightning, and still have a few spells left to heal friends!

Jack_Simth
2008-01-25, 07:05 PM
Forgive the ignorance, but I've never actually seen a description or build for it. Most people just say "CoDzilla=Win Button". So, exactly what spells and/or feats are needed here?
Basic, Core buffs; basic, Core feats are all that's really needed, but there's no real specific build.

The Druid uses Wild Shape, Natural Spell (possibly Multiattack), and long-duration buffs; dump Strength and Dex, pump Wis and Con. If you take, say, a 10th level Druid with Natural Spell (Core Feat), turning into, say, a Dire Lion (Core animal), then buff up with Barkskin (PHB) and Greater Magic Fang (PHB - repeatedly - one for each natural weapon), then, with no equipment, the Druid has an AC of 19, with a full attack routine of 2 Claws +15 for 1d6+9, Bite +10 for 1d8+5 ... and he can do a full attack on a charge. Add in Multiattack (Monster Manual I is Core, and the feat is in it) and that's 2 Claws +15 for 1d6+9, Bite +13 for 1d8+5. If said Druid also grabs Quicken Spell, he can cast Cure Light Wounds in the middle of a fight without worrying about the action cost. At 10th level, he's outdoing the fighter... and he's still got spells. One level later, with Quicken Spell, he can also cast Bull's Strength for more attack and damage (+2 attack all around, +2 damage per claw, +1 damage on the bite), Cat's Grace for more AC, or Bear's Endurance for more HP ... without spending much in the way of actions. Oh yeah - and as a Large critter, he's got Reach. The Fighter can't keep up in a slugfest with him, Core, without exceptionally generous stat or equipment rolls. And the Druid can wildshape considerably more than once per day at this point, so turning into a bat to fly and scout about, or a badger to go underground, is a perfectly feasible method of getting around obstacles.
Oh, yeah - and that's before the Druid spends any money on equipment, like some nice +X Wild Leather Armor.

The Cleric is similar, but he's a bit more stat dependent, and most the buffs aren't as long-running.

Wordmiser
2008-01-25, 07:23 PM
[QUOTE=SithLackey ]Forgive the ignorance, but I've never actually seen a description or build for it. Most people just say "CoDzilla=Win Button". So, exactly what spells and/or feats are needed here?QUOTE]I suppose somebody has to post the obligatory links:

Divine Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divinePower.htm)
Righteous Might (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/righteousMight.htm)
Miracle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/miracle.htm)
Divine Favor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divineFavor.htm)
...and pretty much any other Cleric buff spell ever printed.

The first two are the big ones, Miracle emulates most self-buffs from other lists (including Bite of the Werebear (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20020608a), Giant Size and their ilk) and Divine Favor is just gravy.

Often, Divine Metamagic (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Divine_Metamagic,CD) and Persistant Spell (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Persistent_Spell,CAr) are used in conjunction with Nightsticks (cheap rods from Libris Mortis which give bonus Turning attempts) to keep the buffs up for 24-hour periods (meaning that a prepared Cleric who goes through this routine the night before still has access to all of his spells).

Crow
2008-01-25, 07:37 PM
Don't forget the druid could make some Wild Breastplate out of Ironwood to wear as well.

Would that slow down his animal form's land speed?

Jack_Simth
2008-01-25, 08:01 PM
Don't forget the druid could make some Wild Breastplate out of Ironwood to wear as well.

Would that slow down his animal form's land speed?
That's iffy - the Ironwood spell wears off in less time than it takes to make even +1 Wild armor. You need some non-core source, or some homebrew effect to make it work that way.

Crow
2008-01-25, 08:04 PM
That's iffy - the Ironwood spell wears off in less time than it takes to make even +1 Wild armor. You need some non-core source, or some homebrew effect to make it work that way.

Whoops! Thanks for pointing that out!

Chronos
2008-01-25, 09:24 PM
How does Miracle simulate Bite of the Werebear? Miracle only gives access to spells of level 7 or lower, if they're not on the cleric list, and Bite of the Werebear is Dru 8/ Wiz 9.

Kraggi
2008-01-25, 09:28 PM
Tis naught but a very large fish with the third letter capitalized.

Gardakan
2008-01-25, 09:35 PM
You need to take feats : Augment WildShaping, Fast WildShaping, Natural Bond, Natural Spell. A human druid at level 6 can beat anyone of level 6...

YOu have a animal companion tiger(just to strong...)

Douglas
2008-01-25, 09:48 PM
How does Miracle simulate Bite of the Werebear? Miracle only gives access to spells of level 7 or lower, if they're not on the cleric list, and Bite of the Werebear is Dru 8/ Wiz 9.
It was reprinted in the Spell Compendium as a Druid 6, Sor/wiz 7 spell.

Wordmiser
2008-01-25, 10:17 PM
You need to take feats : Augment WildShaping, Fast WildShaping, Natural Bond, Natural Spell. A human druid at level 6 can beat anyone of level 6...What are you talking about? Do you mean Augment Summoning, Natural Bond, Natural Spell and Quicken Spell? If that's the case, Quicken Spell won't be in the picture until level 9.


It was reprinted in the Spell Compendium as a Druid 6, Sor/wiz 7 spell.It also doesn't have that 25% spell failure thing. I probably should have mentioned that earlier.

Icewalker
2008-01-25, 10:26 PM
So...CoDzilla is more or less a term for 'clerics and druids are overpowered' not an actual build?

Voyager_I
2008-01-25, 10:28 PM
Yes, because gods forbid the Druid ever be impeded in his spellcasting while getting ridiculous physical bonuses (unless they took the Shapechange variant).

EvilElitest
2008-01-25, 10:31 PM
It is a far scarier thing than Godzillia i assure you
from
EE

SithLackey
2008-01-25, 10:36 PM
Well, that clarifies things. Thanks all. unfortunately my DM houseruled out Natural Spell (he smelled the cheese as soon as he saw the thing), and prefers his campaigns at levels where the really awesome buffs aren't available. Darn. I guess I'll just have to stick with my Batman :smalltongue: (who, by the way, is not nearly as effective at level 8 as discussion on this board would seem to indicate).

Fuzzy_Juan
2008-01-25, 10:38 PM
So...CoDzilla is more or less a term for 'clerics and druids are overpowered' not an actual build?

It is a term for a cleric or druid that takes advantage of the full cheese potential turning them into a one man army. The 'godzilla' term is mainly because the typical tactics include the increase in size to at least large to take advantage of the reach rules in addition to the 'typical' cheese.

A cleric or druid alone is not 'CoDzilla'...they must take the initiative and become the gouda to qualify for the moniker.

Icewalker
2008-01-25, 10:47 PM
Ah, so it is a Cleric or Druid taking advantage of ample opportunities for optimization?

Fuzzy_Juan
2008-01-25, 10:47 PM
Well, that clarifies things. Thanks all. unfortunately my DM houseruled out Natural Spell (he smelled the cheese as soon as he saw the thing), and prefers his campaigns at levels where the really awesome buffs aren't available. Darn. I guess I'll just have to stick with my Batman :smalltongue: (who, by the way, is not nearly as effective at level 8 as discussion on this board would seem to indicate).

do note that the 'batman' builds rely on many things that sometimes go unsaid. Chief among them...always be prepared! If you are forced to prepare blindly, you wil not be as effective as you can be. Have a plan on how to work with your buddies...and, of course...have some backup casting ability. Scrolls, wands, anything...the Batman builds always seem to rely on blowing their load in 1 or 2 encounters as far as prepared spells go...throwing out save or suck, or similar spells...but rarely do you get the classic 3-4 encounters per day then rest...in a 'normal' game, you could have 7-10 encounters without rest...or, you could be facing enemies beyond your level with beefed up saves so that they won't be instantly gimped and provide a hard challenge to the party. Remember, the DM prepares encounters based on what they know you can do...if they know you will be able to walk all over enemies of a certian level, they will be prepared as well.

Batman, as generally notated, mainly shines against modules and living RPG where you face stuff at your CR, or maybe 1 higher...when you face BBEG or a series of strong encounters cause yur party is a bunch of twinks...be prepared for the 'normal' rules ot not apply and try to adjust.

Also...a few unlucky rolls and Batman is next to useless...a missed ray, an problematic save...all can spell disaster...know which spells don't rely on such things and use them if you can.

LibraryOgre
2008-01-25, 11:01 PM
Ah, so it is a Cleric or Druid taking advantage of ample opportunities for optimization?

Essentially, yes. In the Core, Clerics and Druids (Druids much moreso) have enough to render fighters nearly irrelevant.

SithLackey
2008-01-25, 11:16 PM
{SNIP}

Yeah, that's more or less it. Despite being a deviner, there aren't too many means of "detect encounter" that my DM will let me get away with more than once or twice. And I'm below WBL with little to spend. And the DM's being stingy because the rest of the group just had a touch of windfall. And I'm a level below the rest of the party. And most of our foes recently have been casters of level>party (read: good will saves). Honestly, there aren't too many worse places for batman. It has sunk to the sad day where my fighter (far from optimal at that) was able to contribute more.

kemmotar
2008-01-25, 11:37 PM
Actually, i'd say that an integral part of the codzilla's cleric part is the DMM persistent spell...ofc it's not core, DMM is for divine metamagic and then take extend spell and then persistent spell and then all the other feats go into extra turning...with DMM you spend turn attempts equal to the cost of the metamagic feat...thus you have all the buffs you needed for 24 hours...no need to prepare for separate encounters as long as hitting them over the head with a really large chunk of metal and enormous strength works...
Another buff to contemplate is the one that made you BAB equal to your CL, useful for making more attacks and hit more often..

If your DM smelled the cheese in natural spell he'll probably know this too so he probably won't let you play it...still a cleric colossal sized with somewhere between +16 and +24 to str...with a colossal weapon too damage goes pretty far...

Also my suggestion on weapon would be goliath greathammer, i think it has the largest damage die around, although it's critical is only at 20...

You won't even need to try to beat the BBEG...just reach his hideout and destroy it along with the BBEG...:smallcool:

Crow
2008-01-25, 11:44 PM
dump Strength and Dex, pump Wis and Con.

Forgive my Druidzilla ignorance, but why pump CON? Wouldn't you get a big fat CON when you wildshape?

Also, worn items that grant enhancement bonuses to attributes don't effect the Druid's animal form, but do inherant bonuses?

excrtd
2008-01-25, 11:54 PM
Con is needed since your HP does not change when you wildshape. Well except for the regaining lost HP as if you had slept for a night.

kemmotar
2008-01-25, 11:56 PM
Forgive my Druidzilla ignorance, but why pump CON? Wouldn't you get a big fat CON when you wildshape?

Also, worn items that grant enhancement bonuses to attributes don't effect the Druid's animal form, but do inherant bonuses?

If i remember correctly, you don't get the con bonus with wild shape. Also, all your equipment blends in with the form, necklaces and such stat bonus items i think still count but your armor is inactive, unless it has the wild ability so you can wear it along with your wildshape....effectively boosting your AC to the heavens...how nice...you are a practically unhittable murder machine...probably with pounce too...

Crow
2008-01-26, 12:25 AM
If i remember correctly, you don't get the con bonus with wild shape. Also, all your equipment blends in with the form, necklaces and such stat bonus items i think still count but your armor is inactive, unless it has the wild ability so you can wear it along with your wildshape....effectively boosting your AC to the heavens...how nice...you are a practically unhittable murder machine...probably with pounce too...

Is there an official ruling on what happens to all that stuff when you Wildshape? Because I've heard it both ways (still in effect/not in effect).

Woot Spitum
2008-01-26, 12:45 AM
So...CoDzilla is more or less a term for 'clerics and druids are overpowered' not an actual build?The polite method of describing it is "clerics and druids who take on the role of party tank.::smallwink:

Tokiko Mima
2008-01-26, 12:53 AM
Is there an official ruling on what happens to all that stuff when you Wildshape? Because I've heard it both ways (still in effect/not in effect).


Druid::Wildshape (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm#wildShape)

...This ability functions like the alternate form special ability (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#alternateForm), except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level, or until she changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. Each time you use wild shape, you regain lost hit points as if you had rested for a night.

Any gear worn or carried by the druid melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When the druid reverts to her true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on her body that they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items worn in the assumed form fall off and land at the druid's feet....


Alternate Form (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#alternateForm)

....Any gear worn or carried by the creature that can’t be worn or carried in its new form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and vice versa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped....

So really, the two sections kinda conflict with each other on this point. The Druid section should win out, though, since it states 'except as mentioned here.'

Crow
2008-01-26, 01:11 AM
Thanks for the references Tokiko :smallwink:

So inherant bonuses are still in then, but nothing else unless it's granted by a spell.

Tokiko Mima
2008-01-26, 05:12 AM
Right, or it has text that supercedes the limitations on Wildshape, like the Beastskin armor enhancement that lets you keep your armor in wildshape form in exchange for a second daily use of Wildshape.

No problem! :smallsmile:

Fenix_of_Doom
2008-01-26, 05:43 AM
If i remember correctly, you don't get the con bonus with wild shape. Also, all your equipment blends in with the form, necklaces and such stat bonus items i think still count but your armor is inactive, unless it has the wild ability so you can wear it along with your wildshape....effectively boosting your AC to the heavens...how nice...you are a practically unhittable murder machine...probably with pounce too...

Not entirely true, you do get a better fort save and a better concentration if you wildshape into a creature with a better con score then you, you just keep your own HP.

shaggz076
2008-01-26, 06:01 AM
That's iffy - the Ironwood spell wears off in less time than it takes to make even +1 Wild armor. You need some non-core source, or some homebrew effect to make it work that way.

Use Blue wood from Unapproachable east.

Meloku
2008-01-26, 07:11 AM
I present to you the original quote, found here (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-465177)



It bears saying: if up against a logic-impervious DM who thinks Core is balanced and Psionics (or Warlocks, or Fochlucan Lyrists, or anything balanced that's come out of splatbooks that aren't munchfests like Complete Divine) isn't, then the most powerful way to disprove that is to play a C.o.D. (Cleric or Druid). Noncore material will not be necessary unless you are going for pure overkill (Draconic Wildshape? Divine Metamagic?). So by all means, if you must win that argument, take you C.o.D. to town. Annihilate the opposition. Make the NPCs and other players scream "Oh no, it's C.o.D.zilla!!!!!" in badly dubbed English. Breathe radioactive fire. Knock down buildings. Then stomp out of the burning Tokyo that is the ruins of the game and swim off into the ocean, seeking a DM with some basic cognitive functions.

Chronos
2008-01-26, 11:44 AM
It was reprinted in the Spell Compendium as a Druid 6, Sor/wiz 7 spell.OK, this is absolute proof that the folks at Wizards of the Coast are insane. Who the heck decided that it would be a good idea to let an 11th level druid (who's already a dire bear, or something in that vicinity) get an additional +16 Str for the cost of a single spell? I can maybe accept that they overlooked the possibility of a cleric Miracleing it, but what's a druid supposed to do with that spell, other than becoming (even more) insanely overpowered with it?