Dune VS Tau (Wait, they aren't killing each other?)

[Ganurath]

Alright, a lot of these versus threads have been "who would win if it's this WH 40K faction against this counterpart from another fiction world in a deathmatch?" I'm one for a bit more higher thinking than that, but I also like the Tau, so I figure: "What's a universe with a lot of political manuevering, diplomacy, doublecrossing, and industrialization that would be a more appropriate setting for the Tau than the 40Kverse?"

Dune.

So, let's say a Tau expedition fleet, complete with a Kroot and Vespid entourage, gets launched into the the space of the Dune universe's empire. Keep in mind, both factions are willing to be diplomatic.

What would happen?

[Seraph]

Depends. in certain time periods, the Dune society has a military with psychotic fanatacism that rivals the imperium of man, but where everyone has precognition.

[Zenos]

Hmm, would the shields used by the people from the Duneverse be able to stop the Tau guns attacks? I guess it would stop the railguns right in their tracks. Would the pulse rifles/plasma cannons make a nuclear explosion like the dune las technology when coming in contact with each other?
I guess the Sardaukar would slice through most Tau armour with their lasguns...

I'm not sure what would happen if they werre being dimplomatic with each other.

[Efil]

Once the kroot learned to fight against shielded knife-fighters i think they would do well in combat. The tau wouldnt be much use on the battlefield, the ammo would either be stopped by shields or dodgeable, but they would probably go for a diplomatic solution anyways.

[Zenos]

Once the kroot learned to fight against shielded knife-fighters i think they would do well in combat. The tau wouldnt be much use on the battlefield, the ammo would either be stopped by shields or dodgeable, but they would probably go for a diplomatic solution anyways.

But of course, you play Tau and is biased for Tau.

[Shas aia Toriia]

Of course there's bias.

There is in any vs. thread. Let's take the SM vs. Protoss one, for example. . .

We've got arguments like this:
"The protoss are invisible and wreck the mind inside out and have better armour and can take a tank shot and survive!!1!one!!1!"

On the flip side, we've got the

"ZOMG but SM have teh bolters that will kill them in one shot and pskers will blow up planets and you're forgetting Exterminatius!!1!!!111!"

Just ignore the people who are biased, and have a decent argument. Tis that simple.

[Ossian]

The tau look a lot like one of the parties that might act on the Dune setting stage. Like the Tleilax or the C.H.O.A.M. guild. They are a fairly evolved civilization which (albeit a bit extreme, it's wh40k after all) can strike a diplomatic deal with th Gesserit or the Imperial house or the ruling house of the Atreides (by the time of the Emperor-God of Dune they rank the fedaykin fremen in the billions). Tau sem a lot interested ina mean of improving their interstellar travel abilities (no warp, IIRC), a gap whioch could neatly be filled by the space distortion of a guild Navigator with some spice. So I see them going more the diplomat's way.

In a skirmish, their war machinery seems au pair with the Dune ones. It could well be a bloody prolonged struggle, one where politicians and alliance makers and unmakers would dive like a shark in a pool of blood.
An their gene pool would ne a tasty addtion to the Bene Gesserit sorority's archive, right?

[Efil]

But of course, you play Tau and is biased for Tau.

I cant see how the post is biased. I said that the kroot would fit in well, being melee units and not shooty, while the tau would be ineffective in combat and go for the diplomatic route.

[Zenos]

I would say that if the Tau didn't manage to broker a peace treaty, they would be quickly taken down by the shield-using close combat troops used by most Duneverse people. The kroot are good at close combat, and fairly strong, but they're as fragile as humans. About how many kroot is there? I'm pretty sure that the fremen (or sardaukar) "supersoldiers" would outnumber them.

Oh, and lasguns. In Dune, those are described as being able to cut through practicaly anything (short of a giant sandworm)...

...Do the Dune people get sandworms? :smallbiggrin:

[Thangorodrim]

Hmm, would the shields used by the people from the Duneverse be able to stop the Tau guns attacks? I guess it would stop the railguns right in their tracks.

Dune shields don't magically remove momentum, hence why you can bash someone around with a shield equipped. The shield is anchored to the projector, which is in turn attached to the wearer.

Its going to be a little...unpleasant, getting hit by a hypervelocity solid round.


Would the pulse rifles/plasma cannons make a nuclear explosion like the dune las technology when coming in contact with each other?

I doubt it, they might pass straight through, might be interdicted etc.


I would say that if the Tau didn't manage to broker a peace treaty, they would be quickly taken down by the shield-using close combat troops used by most Duneverse people.

Flamers would spoiled shielded troops day quite nicely, or maybe nerve gas.


.Do the Dune people get sandworms?

Only on Dune I imagine :smallwink:

[Zenos]

Dune shields don't magically remove momentum, hence why you can bash someone around with a shield equipped. The shield is anchored to the projector, which is in turn attached to the wearer.

I think the shields offer protectiong proportional to the speed of the weapon attacking it. Therefore only low-velocity attacks like knives would be effective. It's the whole reason there are swordfights in the Duneverse.

[Ossian]

Dune shields don't magically remove momentum, hence why you can bash someone around with a shield equipped. The shield is anchored to the projector, which is in turn attached to the wearer.

Its going to be a little...unpleasant, getting hit by a hypervelocity solid round.

This one said it all. The railgun bullet would bounce off, but it would toos you across the battlefield. he oher scenario is that the momentum removed will overload the shield projector, shortcircuiting. Even if it can be rebooted, railgun bullets would be still raining.

I woul be more for those "scatter-lasers" that you could set to a range of effects, from the focused cuting beam to a cloud of energy that insta-kills lightly armored infantrymen at point blank. Duneverse is grittuy, and people die in nasty ways, almost as nasty as in WH40K.

The nuke generation caused by certain interactions could be the key point. Some weapons were banned from the duneverse (and in turn emphasized the role of close combat) just because they were too lethal for both sides. This could give an edge to the duneverse, where there seem to be more (and better) melee typos. From the lethal fremen, trained by the Muad'Dib, to the savage Sardaukars, to guys like Duncan Idaho, you don't want to enter melee in Dune ;) (Jeeez, Duncan took down 19 sardaukars armored and heavyly armed, all with a simple knife thanks to his shield...)

EDIT: forgot to add: The Messiah knows what you will do tomorrow, in a week, in a year, in a century..and he can bend space to travel without moving ;)

[Efil]

Has anyone thought about gun drones fitted with Dune lasguns and used as suicide units against shielded enemies?

[Elliot Kane]

I don't think they'd fight. Of all the people in the 40K universe, only the Tau are really all that inclined to listen to other people, and (Certainly with the Atreides in charge) the Dune empire is not really that militaristic.

I think they'd reach an accommodation.

[Ganurath]

Ah, but here's the kicker that makes things interesting:

As Ossian pointed out, the Tau want alternatives to Warp travel, which means going after spice / Navigator technology. Now, naturally, the Tau are going to want to have the upper hand in negociations. The planet Dune has always been a volatile location, and ultimately whatever house holds the planet is the one favored by the natives. No doubt an Ethereal who studies the region's history would notice this.

1. What would happen if the Tau, making similiar promises to those they made to humans in the 40K universe on first contact, made a power play for Dune?

2. If that power play were successful, how would the Empire react to the Tau controlling the Spice?

3. How would the Guild react if the Kroot started eating Navigators?

[Zenos]

Ah, but here's the kicker that makes things interesting:

As Ossian pointed out, the Tau want alternatives to Warp travel, which means going after spice / Navigator technology. Now, naturally, the Tau are going to want to have the upper hand in negociations. The planet Dune has always been a volatile location, and ultimately whatever house holds the planet is the one favored by the natives. No doubt an Ethereal who studies the region's history would notice this.

1. What would happen if the Tau, making similiar promises to those they made to humans in the 40K universe on first contact, made a power play for Dune?

2. If that power play were successful, how would the Empire react to the Tau controlling the Spice?

3. How would the Guild react if the Kroot started eating Navigators?

1. I dunno, they could take over Dune and control the spice flow.

2. Counterattack like the Emperor did when Muad'Dib took control fo the planet, or fall down on their knees and admit defeat, then being assimilated into the Tau empire.

3. The kroot would become a superpower in the galaxy.

[Thangorodrim]

I think the shields offer protectiong proportional to the speed of the weapon attacking it. Therefore only low-velocity attacks like knives would be effective. It's the whole reason there are swordfights in the Duneverse.


Certain types of energy shield in 40k have a similar mechanic, it doesn't mean I can argue that only a close combat attack can hurt them.

Since Dune shields don't automagically ignore conservation of momentum, and as a side point allow ingress of oxygen etc, the Tau have plenty of weaponry capable of dealing with shielded troops.

Hell, getting hit by sustained pulse rifle shots is likely to cause significant burns if their bolts are even interdicted by Holtzmann shields.