Why i don't like Soul Caliber anymore...

[Lu Yan]

Soul Caliber 4 is going to have Yoda, and Darth Vader. what's next? Neo and Agent Smith? Aragorn and Sauron? Spy and Spy? or maybe even Steve Jobs, and Bill Gates? well... I'd play it for that one

"Play as Steve Jobs or Bill Gates! Fight your way through hordes of monsters, pirates, martial artists, and scantly clad women!" :smalltongue:

[EvilElitest]

Shouldn't this be in gaming? But generally yeah
from
EE

[Callos_DeTerran]

Does it really bother you that much that those two are going to be included? They've had multi-dimensional or time-traveling characters before (Take your pick really) so as long as they come up with a half-decent reason why a Sith Lord and short green Jedi Master are searching for the Soul blades then I'll be content to Force Choke the living hell out of Kilik.

[Rutee]

Soul Caliber 4 is going to have Yoda, and Darth Vader. what's next? Neo and Agent Smith? Aragorn and Sauron? Spy and Spy? or maybe even Steve Jobs, and Bill Gates? well... I'd play it for that one

"Play as Steve Jobs or Bill Gates! Fight your way through hordes of monsters, pirates, martial artists, and scantly clad women!" :smalltongue:

You don't have a fighting game without scantily clad women, duh.

...Honestly, I wish I was kidding.

[Tengu]

You don't have a fighting game without scantily clad women, duh.

...Honestly, I wish I was kidding.

You do!

Because in some of them there simply aren't any women.

[Callos_DeTerran]

You do!

Because in some of them there simply aren't any women.

You serious? I don't think I've even seen a fighting game without women in it (and of course they've always been scantily clad as Rutee mentioned.)

[Lord_Asmodeus]

You don't have a fighting game without scantily clad women, duh.

...Honestly, I wish I was kidding.
Wait what? wouldn't that imply there aren't scantily clad women in fighting games? cause there are, I could post pictures if you want :smalltongue:

Are they going to do another "well in the xbox version you get BLAH in the PlayStation version you get BLAH and in the NINTENDO version you get BLAH" I wish they would just add all the characters in all the versions, cause I don't want to have to buy a PS3 just to get to play Heihachi and his various spawn.

[EvilElitest]

You don't have a fighting game without scantily clad women, duh.

...Honestly, I wish I was kidding.

I really have to say Rutee, you are a 100% right here, to my eternal sorrow

Really why would ivy even wear that?
from
EE

[Lord_Asmodeus]

I really have to say Rutee, you are a 100% right here, to my eternal sorrow

Really why would ivy even wear that?
from
EE

You better be sarcastic, gay, or really a girl, because otherwise I'm very disappointed in you :smallbiggrin::smalltongue::smallwink:

[Gaelbert]

You don't have a fighting game without scantily clad women, duh.

...Honestly, I wish I was kidding.

SSBM? I don't think that has any scantily clad women.

[Callos_DeTerran]

SSBM? I don't think that has any scantily clad women.

Zero-suit Samus.


Also why do I keep hearing things about how skimpy Ivy's clothes are in SC 4? Are they really that bad? (Hasn't seen them yet.)

[stcfg]

It really wouldn't be so bad if they didn't get a boob job after every game.

[Mr. Scaly]

SSBM? I don't think that has any scantily clad women.

Depends. Apparently if you use the camera angle right you can get a shot of Samus before she puts on her power suit.

[Metal Head]

Have you considered the fact that other characters like Link are already in Soul Caliber? Spawn is also in it. The only difference now is that the new characters don't come from the fantasy or anime genre. So what? You're judging way too early, and need to calm down. When I first saw a preview for Gears of War and saw a chain-saw gun I thought it was the most absurd idea in the world. Seriously, who the hell would put a chainsaw on a gun? Turns out it was actually pretty good, and I learned NOT TO JUDGE A GAME BEFORE I PLAY THE DAMN THING.

[Tengu]

You serious? I don't think I've even seen a fighting game without women in it (and of course they've always been scantily clad as Rutee mentioned.)

Battle Beast (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Beast), a game I played myself.


You better be sarcastic, gay, or really a girl, because otherwise I'm very disappointed in you :smallbiggrin::smalltongue::smallwink:

You know, some people think that putting all girls in the game in stripperific clothes is sexist and objectifying, or think that women wearing clothes that actually cover something can be sexy too. I belong to both categories.

[Brickwall]

SSBM? I don't think that has any scantily clad women.

Jigglypuff is, I think, female, and naked. Mewtwo is genderless, and naked. I believe Pichu is also female. Though in all fairness, they're not scantly clad, for they're not clad at all.

[Metal Head]

I don't think Halo had any scantily clad women. Except maybe for Cortana, but she's just a projection made by a computer. Come to think of hit, how the hell does a computer have a gender?

[Tengu]

I don't think Halo had any scantily clad women.

Neither does Minesweeper. And neither is a fighting game.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

You know, some people think that putting all girls in the game in stripperific clothes is sexist and objectifying, or think that women wearing clothes that actually cover something can be sexy too. I belong to both categories.

well for one I was being rather sarcastic (I do so hope you took note of the fact) and two while SOME of the women are scantily clad, not all are and alot of games will have some scantily clad and others not.

[Icewalker]

Are they going to do another "well in the xbox version you get BLAH in the PlayStation version you get BLAH and in the NINTENDO version you get BLAH" I wish they would just add all the characters in all the versions, cause I don't want to have to buy a PS3 just to get to play Heihachi and his various spawn.

I don't care at all for Soul Caliber, but I glanced at this article at one point, and apparently yeah. Yoda is on 360, Vader on PS3.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

oh Goddamnit, I DON'T WANNA HAVE TO BUY A PS3 TO PLAY VADER, frickin soulcalibur screwed me over again.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I don't think Halo had any scantily clad women. Except maybe for Cortana, but she's just a projection made by a computer. Come to think of hit, how the hell does a computer have a gender?

...How the holy hell is Halo a fighting game? :smallconfused:

Also, Tengu that is a valid point of view there. Not one everyone shares, though I certainly fit into the second category too, but very valid.

[Tengu]

well for one I was being rather sarcastic (I do so hope you took note of the fact) and two while SOME of the women are scantily clad, not all are and alot of games will have some scantily clad and others not.

I noticed the first fact and am aware of the second, don't worry. Your post just gave me the opportunity to state my opinion.

[warty goblin]

I can't say I'd mind the scantily clad women so much if they actually bore more than a hormone crazed resemblance to actual human females. Apparently all of the Soul Calibur women are refugees from planet Bustaramma.

[Rutee]

You know, some people think that putting all girls in the game in stripperific clothes is sexist and objectifying, or think that women wearing clothes that actually cover something can be sexy too. I belong to both categories.
There would be less to complain about if there were male sex objects to boot, at least. As at least one of my friends has mentioned, "Can't complain about fanservice if there's also manservice".

In seriousness, I'm mixed on the subject. If they actually look cool despite being stripperific, it's forgivable, and this is not always neglected. On the other, my favorite character design is probably Lenneth Valkyrie; Also, it's so rare to see cool, skimpy characters. It's on a case by case basis, I guess, with a strong tilt against XD

[EvilElitest]

I can't say I'd mind the scantily clad women so much if they actually bore more than a hormone crazed resemblance to actual human females. Apparently all of the Soul Calibur women are refugees from planet Bustaramma.

Ah Bustaramma, i remember that place well, the land of dead and alive volley ball
from
EE

[Bandededed]

I can't say I'd mind the scantily clad women so much if they actually bore more than a hormone crazed resemblance to actual human females. Apparently all of the Soul Calibur women are refugees from planet Bustaramma.


Well, I suppose if you don't count Talim, you could very well say that all of the character's are "well-endowed," though, without breaking out the game to be sure, Ivy was the only one who was really beyond belief

[warty goblin]

Ah Bustaramma, i remember that place well, the land of dead and alive volley ball
from
EE

Apparently the laws of inertia are somewhat different there as well. Either that or the inhabitants are gelatin based life forms...

[Callos_DeTerran]

Well, I suppose if you don't count Talim, you could very well say that all of the character's are "well-endowed," though, without breaking out the game to be sure, Ivy was the only one who was really beyond belief

And er....what the heck is the Chinese girl's name? I can never get it right when I want too....Well she isn't and neither is Cassandra to a huge degree.

[Tengu]

There would be less to complain about if there were male sex objects to boot, at least. As at least one of my friends has mentioned, "Can't complain about fanservice if there's also manservice".


Well, Guilty Gear (the best fighting game ever in my book) has at least three males fighting with barren torsos. One of them is even gay, which probably scores additional points for yaoi fangirls.

[Rutee]

Well, Guilty Gear (the best fighting game ever in my book) has at least three males fighting with barren torsos. One of them is even gay, which probably scores additional points for yaoi fangirls.

Anji's not gay, I'm pretty sure. That's Sol and Ky.

...I CAN HAVE MY SHIPS. THEY ARE PRETY BOTES :E

In seriousness, GG is something of an exception, yeah. Manservice, as my friend referred to it, is just really rare in general. Also, I don't consider Johnny Manservice. Bare torso, but.. too wrapped up in himself to be sexy. Bridget is pretty good about it though. He's adorable!


And er....what the heck is the Chinese girl's name? I can never get it right when I want too....Well she isn't and neither is Cassandra to a huge degree.
Xiang Hua. It figures that two of the three not-whoamg girls are asian.. though there' still Seung Mina and Taki =/

[Talkkno]

And er....what the heck is the Chinese girl's name? I can never get it right when I want too....Well she isn't and neither is Cassandra to a huge degree.

XiangHua I believe.
Edit:Ninja'd

[Tengu]

That's Sol and Ky.

...I CAN HAVE MY SHIPS. THEY ARE PRETY BOTES :E



*shudders* Too much information.

I actually meant Venom.

[Rutee]

*shudders* Too much information.

I actually meant Venom.

Oh hay, I forgot about him. Yeah, he was pretty cool.

[Callos_DeTerran]

*shudders* Too much information.

I actually meant Venom.

Venom is gay? I thought he only had a man-crush on Eddie....Sort disciplish sort of man-crush at that. But GG does have fan-service and man-service at once, plus being an awesome game so it's all good. ('cept for Bridget. x.x I never had a shock quite as big as finding out that Bridget was a guy but then again color me oblivious for not noticing in the first place.)

Also, Seung Mina isn't so bad! Leave the poor spear girl alone! *is a Seung-Mina fan...obviously*

[Tengu]

It's hard to find characters that aren't cool in Guilty Gear, in my book. The only ones I don't really like are I-No and Zato/Eddie - because I don't like purely evil character so much that they're uncool for me even if they have huge attributes or neat shadow powers (and really cheap combat tactics).


Venom is gay? I thought he only had a man-crush on Eddie....Sort disciplish sort of man-crush at that.

From wikipedia:


Venom is the only character officially stated as being homosexual (care of the latest Guilty Gear drama CD "Knight of Knives" released at the end of 2004), although this was heavily implied throughout his story sequences in the games and in the Guilty Gear novel "The Butterfly and Its Gale".

[Callos_DeTerran]

Eh, I like Eddie actually. He's up there in my faves mostly cause I view him as less evil and more 'kill by necessity to live'. Was there ever a GG anime? I know they had some good movie/anime quality work done for the one movie in the game...

[Rutee]

Also, Seung Mina isn't so bad! Leave the poor spear girl alone! *is a Seung-Mina fan...obviously*

She's not, she just has enormous boobs. Especially for a Korean. And, I hate I-No. Fiery Passion of a thousand burning suns. There is no pain, for someone who sucks at fighting games, like Dizzy A.

And that reminds me of another rant; Breasts are never realistic. I don't even mean size. I mean their look. They almost universally lack gravity. It's like the artists have no idea what real people look like. If you have a stripperific outfit like that, the breasts will droop, unless it's made out of magic materials that provide infinitely more support then any extant clothing. Breasts are NOT immune to the laws of physics, people! And anyone who wants to draw or animate people needs to learn this.

BOOBS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY. Huge, huge pet peeve of mine.

[Tengu]

Was there ever a GG anime? I know they had some good movie/anime quality work done for the one movie in the game...

There wasn't. If they made it, it'd be either the most awesome fighting anime ever, or a boring sequence of untied battles.

Though the trailer to GGX was made in an anime style. Let's see if I can find it on youtube...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uSNDsUElxoo - here it is. It'd be concentrated awesome but the dub is hilariously bad:
"The doctor is in!"
"Ride the lightning!"



And that reminds me of another rant; Breasts are never realistic. I don't even mean size. I mean their look. They almost universally lack gravity. It's like the artists have no idea what real people look like. If you have a stripperific outfit like that, the breasts will droop, unless it's made out of magic materials that provide infinitely more support then any extant clothing. Breasts are NOT immune to the laws of physics, people! And anyone who wants to draw or animate people needs to learn this.

Oh, give the animators a break. They've never seen a boob in real life so they don't know how does physics work on one.

[EvilElitest]

Apparently the laws of inertia are somewhat different there as well. Either that or the inhabitants are gelatin based life forms...

well the elements of female antomy in question are the size of my freaking torso half the time and in full view. I mean dear god, they are less human shaped than Barbie

On the subject of man fan service, does Rock count? Please say no



And that reminds me of another rant; Breasts are never realistic. I don't even mean size. I mean their look. They almost universally lack gravity. It's like the artists have no idea what real people look like. If you have a stripperific outfit like that, the breasts will droop, unless it's made out of magic materials that provide infinitely more support then any extant clothing. Breasts are NOT immune to the laws of physics, people! And anyone who wants to draw or animate people needs to learn this.

BOOBS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY. Huge, huge pet peeve of mine.
I think rutee pretty much covered up my annoyance, but for the people who drool at these characters and think they are realistic, girls don't look like that. I'm looking at your Shreaded Mouse, in all your sexist glory


from
EE

[Callos_DeTerran]

She's not, she just has enormous boobs. Especially for a Korean. And, I hate I-No. Fiery Passion of a thousand burning suns. There is no pain, for someone who sucks at fighting games, like Dizzy A.

Maybe for a Korean but they didn't seem that enormous to me...or maybe I just have no concept of size either. I despise I-No too. Hated having to fight her at certain points. Who's Dizzy A though?


And that reminds me of another rant; Breasts are never realistic. I don't even mean size. I mean their look. They almost universally lack gravity. It's like the artists have no idea what real people look like. If you have a stripperific outfit like that, the breasts will droop, unless it's made out of magic materials that provide infinitely more support then any extant clothing. Breasts are NOT immune to the laws of physics, people! And anyone who wants to draw or animate people needs to learn this.

BOOBS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY. Huge, huge pet peeve of mine.

Thats uh...wow. Will need to remind people of that if I'm ever in contact with animators...



Oh yeah, the dubbing was absolutely horrible as were some of the voice actors but it was still made of pure win and would become my next anime addiction like...as soon as I knew it was out. That trailer made me more of a GG fan then I was after 20+ hours of play and having never seen it.

[Rutee]

Maybe for a Korean but they didn't seem that enormous to me...or maybe I just have no concept of size either. I despise I-No too. Hated having to fight her certain points. Who's Dizzy A though?

Dizzy's A Ending in GGXX requires you to fight Super Gold I-No with regular Dizzy. Usually, you can continue when you lose, but if you lose /that/ fight, it progresses down a different branch. And it's fragging hard. The reward, if you win, is Super Gold Dizzy vs. normal I-No (And you /will/ want to beat the tar out of I-No, I promise you).

[EvilElitest]

Oh, give the animators a break. They've never seen a boob in real life so they don't know how does physics work on one.
i wish you were joking, i really do
from
EE

[Callos_DeTerran]

Dizzy's A Ending in GGXX requires you to fight Super Gold I-No with regular Dizzy. Usually, you can continue when you lose, but if you lose /that/ fight, it progresses down a different branch. And it's fragging hard. The reward, if you win, is Super Gold Dizzy vs. normal I-No (And you /will/ want to beat the tar out of I-No, I promise you).

Ah. One of those kinds of endings. I think that was one of the only endings I didn't get actually because of the absurd difficulty in getting it. Never used any of the Super Gold, Black, etcetra versions of the characters though. Not knowingly anyway. I just used the normal ones.

[Tengu]

i wish you were joking, i really do
from
EE

I wish I was joking too.

Wow, this thread is 1.5 hours old, and it's already two pages long and pretty offtopic. But who cares!

[SilentNight]

And er....what the heck is the Chinese girl's name? I can never get it right when I want too....Well she isn't and neither is Cassandra to a huge degree.

Xianghua. Coolest girl in that game was Seong-Mina.
A)She is a beast
B)looks cool( alt. costume in Socal III) THe first one was a little stripperiffic, seriuosly pants do exist.
C)Not apparently from Bustaramma while still pulling off points A and B
Also a Seong Mina fan, Kilik is still better.

[EvilElitest]

I wish I was joking too.

Wow, this thread is 1.5 hours old, and it's already two pages long and pretty offtopic. But who cares!

Some day, a female animators will arrive who will flash the current designers, and everything will change. And not in a CAD mind control way, the animaters will realize what horrible mistakes they have been making
from
EE

[Shraik]

Battle Beast (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Beast), a game I played myself.

I thought it said "Battle Breast" when I clicked the link, I swear. At first, when I read animals in the article, I got very, very concerned. A game titled "Battle Breast" should never involve assorted animals.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Some day, a female animators will arrive who will flash the current designers, and everything will change. And not in a CAD mind control way, the animaters will realize what horrible mistakes they have been making
from
EE

Or their brain's will suffer from chronic blood loss and male animators will pass into legend.

[Rutee]

I wish I was joking too.

Wow, this thread is 1.5 hours old, and it's already two pages long and pretty offtopic. But who cares!

Actually, given what you have to go through to be allowed to do computer animation, you're less accurate then you might think. For computer animators, I'm pretty sure you need pieces of paper that prove you know how to do this (EG Diplomas). Meaning college, and probably aesthetics classes. I imagine it's difficult to find models who /haven't/ had boob jobs, which do in fact negate the laws of physics, I s'pose.

That said, it's still brutally true for mangaka and animators :P

[warty goblin]

well the elements of female antomy in question are the size of my freaking torso half the time and in full view. I mean dear god, they are less human shaped than Barbie

On the subject of man fan service, does Rock count? Please say no



I think rutee pretty much covered up my annoyance, but for the people who drool at these characters and think they are realistic, girls don't look like that. I'm looking at your Shreaded Mouse, in all your sexist glory


from
EE

You know, a month or so ago I actually read the entire Shredded Mouse archive, just to take in the badness. It was sort of like a car crash, I needed to really see it to believe that something could suck that much...

Also remember: Just say no to fanservice. *shudders*

[EvilElitest]

Or their brain's will suffer from chronic blood loss and male animators will pass into legend.

Suddenly female taking over the world seems a lot more likely. Meh, we all knew it would happen eventually,


And rutee, even if means going to collage, most likely these guys were horrible picked on for drawing pictures of women with such absurd chests
I don't think the computer animators will have close contact with the absurdly re morphed models



You know, a month or so ago I actually read the entire Shredded Mouse archive, just to take in the badness. It was sort of like a car crash, I needed to really see it to believe that something could suck that much...

Also remember: Just say no to fanservice. *shudders*
I hate John solomon with a fiery passion i reserve for hypocrites and cowards and even i enjoyed his blogs article on that comic. true he didn't write it so it explains the better quality, but still, that comic is possible one of the most offensive things i've seen on the web, and that is some tough compitetion

from
EE

[Callos_DeTerran]

Suddenly female taking over the world seems a lot more likely. Meh, we all knew it would happen eventually,

I for one welcome our female overlords. (Might as well get the sucking up out of the way now so I can continue my own agenda later..)



I hate John solomon with a fiery passion i reserve for hypocrites and cowards and even i enjoyed his blogs article on that comic. true he didn't write it so it explains the better quality, but still, that comic is possible one of the most offensive things i've seen on the web, and that is some tough compitetion

from
EE

Is Shredded Mouse worth Googling or would I waste my time doing it? What is it?

[Cubey]

Is Shredded Mouse worth Googling or would I waste my time doing it? What is it?

Just read the article:
http://badwebcomics.blogspot.com/2007/09/shredded-moose.html
It gives a good, albeit curse word-filled, indication on how the webcomic is like.

On-topic... that is, off-topic: should I feel bad that my favourite female character in GG is Dizzy? It's not because of her fanservice-ish costume, honest!

[EvilElitest]

I for one welcome our female overlords. (Might as well get the sucking up out of the way now so I can continue my own agenda later..)

Well after 5,000 years of men making stupid descions, i really want to see the women do the exact same thing. So it won't be one gender, but both that are totally stupid.


Is Shredded Mouse worth Googling or would I waste my time doing it? What is it?

I'll be honest with you, it is crap. It is possible the worst comic in existance. It is like the Uwe Boll of webcomics, no freaking joke. So you should read it for the sole purpose of knowing that it doesn't get any worst than this

Imagine the polar opposite of every good comic in existence, and the most disturbing sexism i've ever seen. Read once, just to lavish in its horror. Then become a cynical man like me


Just read the article:
http://badwebcomics.blogspot.com/200...ded-moose.html
It gives a good, albeit curse word-filled, indication on how the webcomic is like.
Ironically, in a way far greater than John could pull off
from
EE

[Callos_DeTerran]

Just read the article:
On-topic... that is, off-topic: should I feel bad that my favourite female character in GG is Dizzy? It's not because of her fanservice-ish costume, honest!

I wouldn't. Dizzy IS my favorite but only cause she's got the TRIPLE LASERS OF DEATH ATTACK thats sorta difficult to pull of but immensely satisfying when you do. That and I think the gimmick of her wings taking shape for various attacks is really cool and original. The fan-service doesn't hurt either but the school-girl thing might have been better then the whole leather thing.

[Rutee]

On-topic... that is, off-topic: should I feel bad that my favourite female character in GG is Dizzy? It's not because of her fanservice-ish costume, honest!

If it helps, I adore Dizzy. Though that's more the theme then the character design, I think. Still, she looks pretty nifty.

[Cubey]

Schoolgirl? Her "civilian" clothing is supposed to be a Jellyfish Pirate outfit - kinda revealing because she looks far older than, say, May. I say looks because technically she's ~3 years old. Gears mature fast.
Although she'd look nice in a seifuku.

Gah! I'm not helping my case here, am I?

And I know that attack, Gamma Ray. It's powerful but easy to block - I prefer Imperial Rays myself. And it isn't that hard to perform - try Necro's Wrath. That's HARD. It is much easier to perform in the newest GG game though.

[Rutee]

Gah! I'm not helping my case here, am I?

Sometimes, it's better to quit when you're ahead. Or not say "Double Or Nothing"... :P

[Cubey]

In that case, I shall misdirect the topic by pointing out another game with plenty of manservice: MGS series.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Schoolgirl? Her "civilian" clothing is supposed to be a Jellyfish Pirate outfit - kinda revealing because she looks far older than, say, May. I say looks because technically she's ~3 years old. Gears mature fast.
Although she'd look nice in a seifuku.

'cuse me but I wasn't looking that closely to distinguish between 'school-girl' or Jellyfish Pirate (especially since I never play May or Johnny much so don't really see that costume)...but the question is why are YOU looking so closely? :smalltongue:


And I know that attack, Gamma Ray. It's powerful but easy to block - I prefer Imperial Rays myself. And it isn't that hard to perform - try Necro's Wrath. That's HARD. It is much easier to perform in the newest GG game though.

Still does some good damage on a block though. Wait...is Necro's Wrath the ray of fire thing or 'Suck enemy into coffin, turn into grim reaper and shoot arrow through'? ...apparently it's been far too long since I've played GG. Cause I use one of those frequently but the other not at all.

[Tengu]

In that case, I shall misdirect the topic by pointing out another game with plenty of manservice: MGS series.

SNAKE AND OTACON ARE JUST GOOD FRIENDS AND WAR BUDDIES, AND NOTHING MORE!

[Rutee]

SNAKE AND OTACON ARE JUST GOOD FRIENDS AND WAR BUDDIES, AND NOTHING MORE!

....
........
You know, that thought hadn't occurred to me til just now :smallbiggrin:

I think he meant Fortune and Sniper Wolf (Oh my flipping God! WHY DOES SHE HAVE AN OPEN SHIRT!? She's in the fragging cold!)

Edit: Oh, /man/service.

I figured Raiden would be more evident..

[Cubey]

'cuse me but I wasn't looking that closely to distinguish between 'school-girl' or Jellyfish Pirate (especially since I never play May or Johnny much so don't really see that costume)...but the question is why are YOU looking so closely? :smalltongue:
That's because I'm a nitpick.

Seriously though, I do not harbor any Perverse Sexual Lust (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PerverseSexualLust), and the reason I like Dizzy is because, even though I'm not normally into moe (and she IS kinda moe, you have to admit), she kicks so much arse herself and with the help of Undine and Necro that it simply has to be awesome.
Plus, she's cute.



Still does some good damage on a block though. Wait...is Necro's Wrath the ray of fire thing or 'Suck enemy into coffin, turn into grim reaper and shoot arrow through'? ...apparently it's been far too long since I've played GG. Cause I use one of those frequently but the other not at all.

Ray of fire - Imperial Ray
Coffin, Necro shoots with bow - Necro's wrath. Possibly the most difficult move to perform in the whole series.

[Lu Yan]

wow, to think that a thread about my dislike for the up-coming installment of Soul Caliber would turn into an argument over the realism of animated breasts is beyond me :smalleek:

[Tengu]

....
........
You know, that thought hadn't occurred to me til just now :smallbiggrin:

I think he meant Fortune and Sniper Wolf (Oh my flipping God! WHY DOES SHE HAVE AN OPEN SHIRT!? She's in the fragging cold!)

Edit: Oh, /man/service.

I figured Raiden would be more evident..

So you are a girl gamer who played MGS1&2 and didn't have any HoYay thoughts about Snake and Otacon until now?

I am afraid I must question your gender. Ah, wait, now I remember that part about Sol and Ky. I take the questioning back.

Raiden has a girlfriend. He's just a bishonen (at least for now, I haven't finished MGS2 yet).

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Just read the article:
http://badwebcomics.blogspot.com/2007/09/shredded-moose.html
It gives a good, albeit curse word-filled, indication on how the webcomic is like.

On-topic... that is, off-topic: should I feel bad that my favourite female character in GG is Dizzy? It's not because of her fanservice-ish costume, honest!

That guy needs to have his ass beat, alot, alot alot, like you know lines of people waiting to hit him in the face with pipe or whack him in the head with a baseball bat till he stops twitching, I'd like to see him do a webcomic so people could hate on him.

[Cubey]

That guy needs to have his ass beat, alot, alot alot, like you know lines of people waiting to hit him in the face with pipe or whack him in the head with a baseball bat till he stops twitching, I'd like to see him do a webcomic so people could hate on him.

While John Solomon is an awful guy who probably didn't get hit in real life enough, I still stand with this point: Shredded Moose is awful. Beyond awful, actually.

Plus, the article wasn't written by Solomon himself.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

While John Solomon is an awful guy who probably didn't get hit in real life enough, I still stand with this point: Shredded Moose is awful. Beyond awful, actually.

Plus, the article wasn't written by Solomon himself.

Well the terribleness of that particular comic aside, he and his lackeys need to be shot for crimes of jack-assery.

[Callos_DeTerran]

That's because I'm a nitpick.

Seriously though, I do not harbor any Perverse Sexual Lust (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PerverseSexualLust), and the reason I like Dizzy is because, even though I'm not normally into moe (and she IS kinda moe, you have to admit), she kicks so much arse herself and with the help of Undine and Necro that it simply has to be awesome.
Plus, she's cute.

Moe? You mean emo right? Yeah, a little but your right. She kicks so much arse it makes up for it.


Ray of fire - Imperial Ray
Coffin, Necro shoots with bow - Necro's wrath. Possibly the most difficult move to perform in the whole series.

Damn right it's hard! And it never seems worth the effort to me..

[Rutee]

That's because I'm a nitpick.

Seriously though, I do not harbor any Perverse Sexual Lust (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PerverseSexualLust), and the reason I like Dizzy is because, even though I'm not normally into moe (and she IS kinda moe, you have to admit), she kicks so much arse herself and with the help of Undine and Necro that it simply has to be awesome.
Plus, she's cute.

The funny thing is, I never considerred it perverse. I'd actually consider it stranger if it yielded no result whatsoever. Granted, I've hung around nerds and nerd men for.. a long time, but.. it seems normal to take an animated representation as realistically as probable.

Wait, dictionary-time. Yeah, Perverse, in this case, would apply, since it's counter to /society's/ expectations. So technically, what I mean is "Odd" or "Out of place"...


Moe? You mean emo right? Yeah, a little but your right. She kicks so much arse it makes up for it.
No, he means Moe-Moe (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MoeMoe), which is all the adorable tropes that, when in women, men love to protect.

Frankly, I'm not averse to that concept. Cute is mostly asexual. Mostly.

[Cubey]

@Rutee: Perverse or not, that's how it's titled in TVTropes, the geek's Bible. Changing the title would be a disgrace for me!


Moe? You mean emo right? Yeah, a little but your right. She kicks so much arse it makes up for it.

Damn right it's hard! And it never seems worth the effort to me..

No, not emo. She's been, quite accurately, described in-game as a girl who looks more herself when she's smiling than crying. Moe is when a character is cute in a fashion that evokes a feeling of helplessness (on the character's part) and protectiveness (on the viewer's). She's definitely a Dojikko - that is, clumsy girl. She mentions she breaks stuff often after defeating Chipp in Arcade Mode. Dojikko may or may not be moe, depends on whom you ask.

Necro's Wrath deals huge damage, is fast and unblockable. Its biggest side effect is that the moves you have to perform leave huge openings, as you can't block when you press Forward. If defending with Dizzy wasn't difficult enough... the girl's got a huge hit frame. Must be the wings.

[Hallavast]

BOOBS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY.

Was skimming through this thread. Saw this. Laughed for about 5 minutes.


Also, I believe early Virtua Fighter has no scantily clad women... unless you include a skin tight jumpsuit...

Also, in defense of gamer nerd/men everywhere, I'd like to point out an exess of male partial nudity in Streetfighter and MK as well.

[Haruki-kun]

I'm gonna state my opinion in this Thread:

I HATE the sole idea of Yoda and Vader in Soul Calibur. It makes no sense! At least Link sorta fit into the universe, but Yoda and Vader have no place there.

In my opinion, this is only one level below product placement. Next thing we know, Taki's gonna have "Coca-Cola" written all over her clothes. :smallmad:

[Jerthanis]

Man, I like the Soul Calibur series, but they seriously need to get a handle on the costumes and boobs. I like playing as Taki and Ivy, but I always use their least revealing costumes if available.

Yoda and Vader shouldn't be in it for one simple reason: in the game, Lightsabers will bounce off when hitting a guarding person. This will look stupid. Also I predict Yoda will be ridiculously unbalanced.

[Innis Cabal]

Venom rocks.....he uses a pool cue....thats a win right there

Also Guilty gear females..save for Dizzy....arnt that badly dressed. Look at Baikin.
(and i agree 100% with Tengu)

[Lu Yan]

I'm gonna state my opinion in this Thread:

I HATE the sole idea of Yoda and Vader in Soul Calibur. It makes no sense! At least Link sorta fit into the universe, but Yoda and Vader have no place there.

In my opinion, this is only one level below product placement. Next thing we know, Taki's gonna have "Coca-Cola" written all over her clothes. :smallmad:

thank you!

[Jibar]

I'm gonna state my opinion in this Thread:

I HATE the sole idea of Yoda and Vader in Soul Calibur. It makes no sense! At least Link sorta fit into the universe, but Yoda and Vader have no place there.

In my opinion, this is only one level below product placement. Next thing we know, Taki's gonna have "Coca-Cola" written all over her clothes. :smallmad:

Oh dear poop...

Seriously guys, you've got an elf from a whole different world, a servent of Hell thrown back in time, and the leader of an evil corporation from the future in Soul Calibur II.
Nobody complained about this.

Suddenly when even more popular characters arrive, everybody has a big tiff.
At least in this case, they won't need time travel to explain why they're playable.
The only silly thing is lightsabers should cut through their swords, unless we accidentally had cortosis weave all this year.

And on the subject of boobs, Ivy and Taki are the only offenders in Soul Calibur. Ivy for just being plain ridiculous, and Taki because they move after her. Every other character is completely believable.

[Drascin]

Yeah, Ivy and Taki are just... creepy, and I fail to see the point of such disbelief-breaking... endowment.

But then, I have been asking myself for ages how in the Nine Hells does someone find Ivy fitting in the least for the adjective "attractive". I assume someone has to, since her bust grows every game and she always features in every trailer, and I believe Namco's PR to know their customer base, but... seriously, why?

[SnowballMan]

You don't have a fighting game without scantily clad women, duh.

...Honestly, I wish I was kidding.

Well there is always this. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karate_Champ)

Reading this thread has made me sad though. Even though I don't do console games anymore, it's somewhat depressing to see what has become of one of the best games I have ever played (the original Soul Blade).

[Closet_Skeleton]

Darth Vadar might actually make people buy a PS3, but the idea that you put in two lightsaber characters and can't make them fight is stupid.


She's not, she just has enormous boobs. Especially for a Korean. And, I hate I-No. Fiery Passion of a thousand burning suns. There is no pain, for someone who sucks at fighting games, like Dizzy A.

You're meant to hate I-No, that's why she's a villain. She dresses skimpily because she's completely self obsessed.


They almost universally lack gravity.

Maybe they're all telekinetic and have force field bras.


Xiang Hua. It figures that two of the three not-whoamg girls are asian.. though there' still Seung Mina and Taki =/

In a Japanese game the bustiest woman will always be Japanese. Against all logic but true. It's true in both Guilty Gear (Baiken) and Soul Caliber (Taki and her missiles) at least.


Also, I don't consider Johnny Manservice. Bare torso, but.. too wrapped up in himself to be sexy.

Everyone in Guilty Gear is too "wrapped up" in themself. Except for Dizzy, Faust and Kliff.


Dizzy's A Ending in GGXX requires you to fight Super Gold I-No with regular Dizzy. Usually, you can continue when you lose, but if you lose /that/ fight, it progresses down a different branch. And it's fragging hard.

Oh god, don't remind me.


The reward, if you win, is Super Gold Dizzy vs. normal I-No (And you /will/ want to beat the tar out of I-No, I promise you).

I think it's actually Gold I-No vs Gold Dizzy for the second fight but I may be wrong.


That said, it's still brutally true for mangaka and animators :P

Female Mangaka also draw unrealistic boobs. Kawa****a Mizuki draws fanservice manga full of busty high school girls despite being female.

I think it's more of a case that they don't care than that they don't know how.


On-topic... that is, off-topic: should I feel bad that my favourite female character in GG is Dizzy? It's not because of her fanservice-ish costume, honest!

Dizzy's outfit allways disturbed me because SHE'S THREE YEARS OLD! Does she even realise what guys looking at her will be thinking?

I'd almost say the outfit detracts from an otherwise good character, but it can look cool at times.


Well after 5,000 years of men making stupid descions, i really want to see the women do the exact same thing. So it won't be one gender, but both that are totally stupid.

QFT


In that case, I shall misdirect the topic by pointing out another game with plenty of manservice: MGS series.

Ah yes. That game series is really gay and I don't mean that as a generic insult.


The only silly thing is lightsabers should cut through their swords, unless we accidentally had cortosis weave all this year.

If there's one thing that KotOR has taught us it's that everything and your grandmother is made from Cortosis weave.


And on the subject of boobs, Ivy and Taki are the only offenders in Soul Calibur. Ivy for just being plain ridiculous, and Taki because they move after her. Every other character is completely believable.

Have you seen Sophitia's character art?


Bridget is pretty good about it though. He's adorable!

Shotacon :smalltongue:

[EvilElitest]

wow, to think that a thread about my dislike for the up-coming installment of Soul Caliber would turn into an argument over the realism of animated breasts is beyond me :smalleek:

The irony is that this is i media discussions not gaming


And people, what are you talking about? Ivy and Taki's costumes are not revealing in the least, not at all
from
EE

[Tengu]

Venom rocks.....he uses a pool cue....thats a win right there

Also Guilty gear females..save for Dizzy....arnt that badly dressed. Look at Baikin.
(and i agree 100% with Tengu)

Baiken seems to always be one step away from a wardrobe malfunction - it's a miracle that her kimono always manages to cover her private parts. She's probably my favorite GG female character, though - and I find her relations with Anji very amusing.

My favorite male character is probably Faust - a tragic redeemed villain and a hilarious complete loon in one package!

As for SC, I only played the first game, Soul Blade, ages ago - and my memory is pretty spotty on it. From girls I only remember Taki and Sophitia, and from guys Rock (whom I used to play mostly), Siegfried, Voldo, that pirate (Cervantes?) and two generic samurai guys. They probably didn't have Ivy yet.

[Rutee]

Baiken, interestingly, dresses appropriately for someone who's taken on the samurai philosophy and lives about 600 years into her past. A note, if I'm not very much mistaken, at the time people had relatively little shame, as we know it. And really, it's only because she's an Expy of Kenshin that she does it in the first place :P

As to the above person who mostly quoted me.. avoiding the gender war. As I have been.

[Callos_DeTerran]

And people, what are you talking about? Ivy and Taki's costumes are not revealing in the least, not at all
from
EE

Well...technically speaking Taki's costume isn't all that revealing. I doubt theres more then five square inches not covered by red spandex-like material below her neck...but you can't ignore the fact said spandex manages not to hide anything.

[Tengu]

Baiken, interestingly, dresses appropriately for someone who's taken on the samurai philosophy and lives about 600 years into her past. A note, if I'm not very much mistaken, at the time people had relatively little shame, as we know it. And really, it's only because she's an Expy of Kenshin that she does it in the first place :P


Hmm, interesting, I didn't really know that. Even if she has a reason, OOCly it's fon fanservice anyway though. And yeah, she is a female version of Kenshin. Without the reverse katana and with different scars, one eye, one arm and a lot of weapons stuffed up her sleeve (how does she keep all that stuff there? Hammerspace, probably).

[Rutee]

Oh, it is still OOCly fanservice. But Baiken's pretty awesome, and thus, it's forgiven. It's like humor; People can't complain if they laughed.

Edit: Oh, right, by "Dresses appropriately" I was automatically forgiving the gender barrier.

[Cubey]

I'm taking this as a challenge to describe the fanservice factor of Guilty Gear female characters.

Dizzy - was discussed already. Probably the most fanservice-ish costume from all of them. (Side note: she's 3 years old, but has the physical, obviously, as well as mental and emotional maturity of ~16-17 years of age, or however old she looks like. She's mostly very naive when it gets to life experience.)
Baiken - discussed already. Clothes that fit her character, but mostly due to her, ahem, generous endowment it also is a lot of fanservice. Don't stare at her too closely though, she'll cut you up.
I-no - ahem. Her clothing borders on fetishistic. Don't forget one of her ending poses, too.
May - she's a kid. Any fanservice would be wrong, unless you're into loli:smalleek: . Fortunately there isn't any. Also, anyone noticed how she wears the same white protector things as Kliff Undersen?
Millia Rage - a good example of how a costume can be tasteful, unrevealing (except the legs - but it's not Middle Ages anymore, women show legs all the time), and still looking very sexy.
Jam - as above, although you can get a panty shot in one of her ending poses. Yoink!

EDIT: I forgot ABA. But she's too creepy for fanservice material.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

On the note of scantily clad women, I always figured it was a brilliant strategy to distract the guys they were fighting.

[Jibar]

If there's one thing that KotOR has taught us it's that everything and your grandmother is made from Cortosis weave.

Too true to be believable.


Have you seen Sophitia's character art?

I went and had a look. Okay, she's gone a little slutty, but she's always been that busty and I find it hard to imagine that women in Greece at the times would be wearing much anyway, what with the sun that we lack in Britain.

[EvilElitest]

Well...technically speaking Taki's costume isn't all that revealing. I doubt theres more then five square inches not covered by red spandex-like material below her neck...but you can't ignore the fact said spandex manages not to hide anything.

Oh come on, its not like that costume leaves nothing to the imagination right? Right.....oh

As for the distraction thing

Man fighter-Alright lets do this
Female-OK
Male- Wait WFT
Female- Eh?
Male- Why on earth are you wearing that, its a freaking kimono
Girl- So? Its light and lets me move faster
Male- No, the entire chest area is left totally exposed. I'm wearing freaking armor and your wearing a kimono that shows off practically every inch of your gravity defining boobs exposed. WFT? I mean come on, if i swing my sword at you, your screwed and won't you catch cold with that
Girl- In the time you took to check me out, i've already shanked you
Male- oh snap



from
EE

[Closet_Skeleton]

(how does she keep all that stuff there? Hammerspace, probably)

Did you miss the part of Guilty Gear where everyone has magic powers?


On the note of scantily clad women, I always figured it was a brilliant strategy to distract the guys they were fighting.

That's a common excuse, one I may have used myself before, but it's still an excuse. It's also dishonourable and disrespectful to your opponent, but some characters won't care about it. That's the thing, I have nothing against fanservice, as long as it's in character and the character actually has enough depth to support the otherwise flimsy excuse.


I went and had a look. Okay, she's gone a little slutty, but she's always been that busty and I find it hard to imagine that women in Greece at the times would be wearing much anyway, what with the sun that we lack in Britain.

Sadly my knowledge of Greece is all classical, where men walked around in miniskirts and women had to wear veils when they went outside. Women had to dress very conservitively in classical Greece. When is Soul Caliber supposed to be set anyway, 16th century? It doesn't really go for historical accuracy so I suppose it isn't important. Sophitia is clearly going for a classical Greek appearance and worships the classical gods at a time where Greece was populated by Christians and Muslims. If you assume that Sophitia is some kind of screwed up Japanese perception of Greece based on classical Athens then she's definately under dressed.

[Jibar]

Sadly my knowledge of Greece is all classical, where men walked around in miniskirts and women had to wear veils when they went outside. Women had to dress very conservitively in classical Greece. When is Soul Caliber supposed to be set anyway, 16th century? It doesn't really go for historical accuracy so I suppose it isn't important. Sophitia is clearly going for a classical Greek appearance and worships the classical gods at a time where Greece was populated by Christians and Muslims. If you assume that Sophitia is some kind of screwed up Japanese perception of Greece based on classical Athens then she's definately under dressed.

I see your point, and raise you Soul Edge.
One of her costumes was a swimsuit.
She's got better, if anything.

[Steven the Lich]

What I like about SC throughout the series...
Cool fighting styles
Interesting storyline
unique setting
Alternate endings in Soul Edge and SC3
Neat sayings
Sweet music (Liking the destined battle one)
Nice stages overtime (The Lost Cathedral)
Chronicles of the Sword, Edgemaster, and other gamemodes throughout the series.
Guest Characters (Link, how I tossed out thousands of foes with your cheap grab and won)
Interesting characters (Nightmare, Zasalamel (may he R.I.P, unless he reappears in the 4th))

What I don't like about it
Scantidly clad women with impractical outfits (Seong Mina, Ivy, Tira, Sophitia, and more)
Some unrealistic stuff (Yoshimitsu has a wooden robotic hand, robotics hasn't been invented yet)
Custom Soul (colliding outfits)
More still

SC is a cool game, there are some things in it I could live without. I don't mind Darth Vadar or Yoda being in it, I can understand why. Besides, temporal disturbences, a number of things could be responsible for their arrival, but I don't hate them. Heck, I think it would be interesting to pit jedi and sith against ancient warriors. Though they should've been given different weapons, I mean lightsabers make no sense considering they cut through everything.
As for modern day animation... I can only pray that the more sensitive females take to it, and make better games. I actually clap for the newest member of the SC commitee, since she is in full armor, a first for the game I'd say. I'll play SC4, since it ranks a cool game from what I see, with a new fighting system too.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

That's a common excuse, one I may have used myself before, but it's still an excuse. It's also dishonourable and disrespectful to your opponent.

I don't think there's any form of attire that makes being the living hell out of some poor guy with what is obviously a very blunt sword "respectful."

[Cubey]

Did you miss the part of Guilty Gear where everyone has magic powers?

I think it has less to do with real magic (as in Exalted's charm/"spell" that summons and unsummons your weapon) and more with conventional Anime and Manga stuff, that is Hammerspace.
I think of Baiken as a type of Badass Normal, if there are any Normals left in the world of Guilty Gear. While everyone around uses powers of lightning and fire, summons or binds demons to help in combat and twists their bodies using occult magic, all she brings to a fight is her katana - that is, katana and a bucketload of other weapons. She does use magic seals as a Dust attack and one of her Tension Moves, but that's all. The second Badass Normal character is Bridget - he doesn't use magic at all as far as I can see, only his yo-yo is REALLY high-tech and his mastery over it reaches ridiculously over-the-top levels. Bridget's Instant Kill move, anyone?

EDIT:

I don't think there's any form of attire that makes being the living hell out of some poor guy with what is obviously a very blunt sword "respectful."

I think the difference is as follows:
Using blunt weapons - you give out an impression that you're so good that you don't need real weapons to beat the crap out of the opponent
Revealing attire worn on purpose to distract the opponent - you give out an impression that you don't have the power to beat the enemy the normal way and have to resort to dirty tricks like that

It's less about disrespecting the opponent and more about disrespecting your own skill as a warrior. In my book, at least.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Dirty tricks are what stupid people call it when an opponent is smarter than them.

[EvilElitest]

Dirty tricks are what stupid people call it when an opponent is smarter than them.

That defense is used by cowardly people who can't admit they are afraid
from
EE

[Tengu]

I think it has less to do with real magic (as in Exalted's charm/"spell" that summons and unsummons your weapon) and more with conventional Anime and Manga stuff, that is Hammerspace.
I think of Baiken as a type of Badass Normal, if there are any Normals left in the world of Guilty Gear. While everyone around uses powers of lightning and fire, summons or binds demons to help in combat and twists their bodies using occult magic, all she brings to a fight is her katana - that is, katana and a bucketload of other weapons. She does use magic seals as a Dust attack and one of her Tension Moves, but that's all. The second Badass Normal character is Bridget - he doesn't use magic at all as far as I can see, only his yo-yo is REALLY high-tech and his mastery over it reaches ridiculously over-the-top levels. Bridget's Instant Kill move, anyone?


May doesn't seem to have any magical powers either. She just can talk with sea animals and wield an anchor bigger than herself as a weapon.

[Rutee]

You know, I'm curious, has anyone here had fanservice (Not just mammary glands swinging about, but all forms of it; It doesn't /just/ mean near-naked women) spoil a series or anything for ya? The OP has, with Soul Calibur 4 (As much as I <3 the idea of Yoda in a fighting game, it's certainly fanservice), obviously, but other examples? Personally.. I'm going to say Ikki Tousen, which was a crazy awesome idea spoiled by far, far too much Gainaxing and panty shots.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

That defense is used by cowardly people who can't admit they are afraid
from
EE

And this defense is used by people who can't stand being outsmarted, i should know I've used it before:smallmad: :smallamused:

[Tengu]

You know, I'm curious, has anyone here had fanservice (Not just mammary glands swinging about, but all forms of it; It doesn't /just/ mean near-naked women) spoil a series or anything for ya?

Hmm, I think that Elfen Lied would be a much more interesting anime if they focused less on fanservice and gore, and more on the actual story and fleshing out the characters in a likable way.

[EvilElitest]

And this defense is used by people who can't stand being outsmarted, i should know I've used it before:smallmad: :smallamused:

Me? Screw the sword, i'd bring a gun, Europeon conquest style
from
EE

[SurlySeraph]

Oh come on, its not like that costume leaves nothing to the imagination right? Right.....oh

As for the distraction thing

Man fighter-Alright lets do this
Female-OK
Male- Wait WFT
Female- Eh?
Male- Why on earth are you wearing that, its a freaking kimono
Girl- So? Its light and lets me move faster
Male- No, the entire chest area is left totally exposed. I'm wearing freaking armor and your wearing a kimono that shows off practically every inch of your gravity defining boobs exposed. WFT? I mean come on, if i swing my sword at you, your screwed and won't you catch cold with that
Girl- In the time you took to check me out, i've already shanked you
Male- oh snap

There is something you forgot to take into account. (http://www.cad-comic.com/comic.php?d=20070922)

[thorgrim29]

Someone was asking how constucts get a gender in halo, it has to do with their choice and the brain they are made from (yes, in halo, UNSC AI's, or at least the smartones, like Cortana, are made from human brains, and have a lifespan of a few years, wich means halo 3's ending makes no sense but I disgress).

As for fanservice games, you cant realy beat the DOA franchise. But I have to say, if you look past (no, focus man, look past the boob) the ridiculously over the top boobs, it's a very good game. There's even a SPARTAN in DOA4.... And the girls even get a bit of manservice, the bruce lee clone guy, the drunken master, and the russian assasin I think.... And, to prove wrong another poster, the biggest boobs do not belong to a japanese, I'd say its a tossup between Tina, La Mariposa and Christie.

[EvilElitest]

There is something you forgot to take into account. (http://www.cad-comic.com/comic.php?d=20070922)

Yeah, that would happen a lot too, girl who resort to the boob tatic have to be wary
from
EE

[SurlySeraph]

As for fanservice games, you cant realy beat the DOA franchise. But I have to say, if you look past (no, focus man, look past the boob) the ridiculously over the top boobs, it's a very good game. There's even a SPARTAN in DOA4.... And the girls even get a bit of manservice, the bruce lee clone guy, the drunken master, and the russian assasin I think.... And, to prove wrong another poster, the biggest boobs do not belong to a japanese, I'd say its a tossup between Tina, La Mariposa and Christie.

Kasumi's breasts are easily bigger than Christie's. By, like, a foot in diameter. La Mariposa might have larger ones, but I haven't played DOA4 quite enough to be sure.

[Mr.Moron]

Funny to see a discussion about female character design in video games. It's something that's annoyed me for as long as I can remember. Just as much for what it says the industry thinks about me as a consumer, as it does for the designs being downright stupid.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned: it doesn't matter what you're doing, high-heels are always acceptable footwear. I don't get it! Heck even if you're some kind of hideous female alien queen that doesn't even have clothing in the conventional sense: You'll have high-heels built into your bony carapace. It's actually kind of comical in certain way.


Who was it that mentioned Lenneth Valkrie? I have to agree, it's one of the female character designs I've liked more. I suppose that's one thing you could consider a positive side. There are so many horrible female character designs, good ones stand out a fair bit.

[The Extinguisher]

Really, the only problem is that female fighters would have bound their breasts, because everything else is just getting in the way.

Anyway, I see no problem with the Star Wars. They're keeping them out of the main canon like Link and Spawn and the other dude, if I remember correctly. And really, who doesn't want to force choke Rapheal every once and a while.

Also, Soul Caliber has plenty of manservice. Kilik always seems to find himself lacking a shirt. I mean, damn.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I'm taking this as a challenge to describe the fanservice factor of Guilty Gear female characters.

Dizzy - was discussed already. Probably the most fanservice-ish costume from all of them. (Side note: she's 3 years old, but has the physical, obviously, as well as mental and emotional maturity of ~16-17 years of age, or however old she looks like. She's mostly very naive when it gets to life experience.)
Baiken - discussed already. Clothes that fit her character, but mostly due to her, ahem, generous endowment it also is a lot of fanservice. Don't stare at her too closely though, she'll cut you up.
I-no - ahem. Her clothing borders on fetishistic. Don't forget one of her ending poses, too.
May - she's a kid. Any fanservice would be wrong, unless you're into loli:smalleek: . Fortunately there isn't any. Also, anyone noticed how she wears the same white protector things as Kliff Undersen?
Millia Rage - a good example of how a costume can be tasteful, unrevealing (except the legs - but it's not Middle Ages anymore, women show legs all the time), and still looking very sexy.
Jam - as above, although you can get a panty shot in one of her ending poses. Yoink!

EDIT: I forgot ABA. But she's too creepy for fanservice material.

I keep hearing about this ABA, who the hell is she? I could have sworn I un-locked every single person in the game and yet this...ABA taunts me by not being there.

You also forgot Justice but that may have been intentional.

SurlySeraph is right though, Kasumi do be bigger but I'm actually a big fan of DOA. It's another 'pick up and play' kind of fighting game that I like.

Personally, I couldn't give a rat's furry behind about fanservice. If the game plays well, is interesting, and the character design models are fun to look at (for whatever reason) then I'll play it. I'm just a big fan of fighting games.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Personally.. I'm going to say Ikki Tousen, which was a crazy awesome idea spoiled by far, far too much Gainaxing and panty shots.

I tend to think that when an okay idea is ruined by fanservice, it's because the author didn't have the ability to execute it properly anyway. You can say that "if you take away the fanservice there's a decent idea here" but the truth then remains that the end product isn't very good.

I'd personally find that if fanservice ruins something, it's when it's used as filler or padding and that tends to ruin things even when it isn't fanservice.


As much as I <3 the idea of Yoda in a fighting game, it's certainly fanservice

If you're bringing non-titalation fanservice into things, then the very idea of cross-overs is nothing but fanservice. Final Fantasy Advent Children is also entirely fanservice. As is the Startrek and Gundam technical manuals.


Hmm, I think that Elfen Lied would be a much more interesting anime if they focused less on fanservice and gore, and more on the actual story and fleshing out the characters in a likable way.

Funny, I think that they did focus on characters and it was an interesting series but a psychologist did once tell me that I have a bad habit of reading too far into things. The nudity in Elfen Lied is hardly sexualised and there are gore free episodes (at least 1).


I keep hearing about this ABA, who the hell is she? I could have sworn I un-locked every single person in the game and yet this...ABA taunts me by not being there.

She's only in the very latest version. She's a golem who has a giant key and wears bandages.



And the girls even get a bit of manservice, the bruce lee clone guy, the drunken master, and the russian assasin I think...

Also the guy in the karate gi that hangs a lot lower than Ryu from Streetfighter's outfit does. He also has a pimp outfit for some reason. But the female characters always get more alternate costumes.


And, to prove wrong another poster, the biggest boobs do not belong to a japanese, I'd say its a tossup between Tina, La Mariposa and Christie.

I'd swear Kasumi had bigger breasts and someone agrees with me:


Kasumi's breasts are easily bigger than Christie's. By, like, a foot in diameter.


SurlySeraph is right though, Kasumi do be bigger but I'm actually a big fan of DOA.

[Rutee]

I tend to think that when an okay idea is ruined by fanservice, it's because the author didn't have the ability to execute it properly anyway. You can say that "if you take away the fanservice there's a decent idea here" but the truth then remains that the end product isn't very good.
Actually, I have no idea what'd be there without the fan service. I couldn't stomach watching past episode 3, in that case.


If you're bringing non-titalation fanservice into things, then the very idea of cross-overs is nothing but fanservice. Final Fantasy Advent Children is also entirely fanservice. As is the Startrek and Gundam technical manuals.
Yes. Yes, the concept of cross overs is nothing but fanservice. But somehow this central point got transferred to something completely unrelated. FFAC, the Star Trek, and the Gundam Technical Manuals aren't fanservice in that sense, because they're not crossovers.

And really, non-titillation fanservice isn't nearly as irksome. After all, it's fanservice I can in fact appreciate.


One thing I haven't seen mentioned: it doesn't matter what you're doing, high-heels are always acceptable footwear. I don't get it! Heck even if you're some kind of hideous female alien queen that doesn't even have clothing in the conventional sense: You'll have high-heels built into your bony carapace. It's actually kind of comical in certain way.

I'd forgotten entirely. Yeah, seriously, I don't even know why people would wear heels that high. The ludicrousness factor is pretty laughable, I agree XD

[ZeroNumerous]

You don't have a fighting game without scantily clad women, duh.

...Honestly, I wish I was kidding.

Just to note, Last Blade 2 did not have scantily clad women in it.

On-topic: I stopped caring about Soul Caliber when they included Link and Spawn.

[Foeofthelance]

I'm curious though. Is it just because the characters are female that their costumes come into question? I clearly Mitsuragi having a shirtless costume, and Raphael is running around in puffy white shirts. Then of course there's the guy in the fetish costume. (>< Can't remember his name for the life of me...) Are we honestly trying to say the only reason their costumes aren't equally outlandish is because they don't have breasts?

Honestly, I could understand if the guys wore nothing but full plate while the girls had nothing but bikinis, but that isn't the case. Each of the fighters has multiple costumes, and some are outlandish and some aren't. So what?

[Rutee]

I'm curious though. Is it just because the characters are female that their costumes come into question? I clearly Mitsuragi having a shirtless costume, and Raphael is running around in puffy white shirts. Then of course there's the guy in the fetish costume. (>< Can't remember his name for the life of me...) Are we honestly trying to say the only reason their costumes aren't equally outlandish is because they don't have breasts?

Honestly, I could understand if the guys wore nothing but full plate while the girls had nothing but bikinis, but that isn't the case. Each of the fighters has multiple costumes, and some are outlandish and some aren't. So what?

Raphael is outlandishly dressed? Either way, on some level, I think it isn't an issue 'cause you're not offended by it, in part, and they're less obviously designed as manservice (Frankly, I don't find any Soul Calibur male attractive, though I /have/ known some to gush over Killik, so fair enough). Part of the problem, if there's a problem, is obtrusiveness, after all. Hence why I mentioned earlier that I don't mind stripperific outfits if they manage to look cool regardless. One example I had open in Firefox of a cool costume more then forgiving having no top but a corset. (http://dresdencodak.com/cartoons/dc_031.htm) Granted, that's not stripperific either, but I can't find evidence to make /that/ point with when it's this close to work :P

[Foeofthelance]

Raphael's shirts, while not as revealing, aren't much better in terms of armor than anyone elses. In fact, out of everyone, the only characters I can recall having a decent preventive set of armor (I have SC2) were Nightmare, Mitsuragi, and the golem. And each of them had a shirtless variant to go with it.

It comes down to sex sells. No matter what happens, unless we find someway to sterilize and chemically alter the entire world, that will always be true. Personally, I don't understand how that leads to the whole "these costumes are offensive/sexist" arguments. I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I'm fairly sure its a steady one when I say that its more likely that the majority of fighter game players are guys. The makers of said games know this, and use their art to sell to that demographic. But that's no more sexist than, say, romance novel covers, which nine times out of ten show overly muscled and tanned hunks in desperate need of a haircut. Why? Because just like fighter games, romance novels tend to be highly derivative of each other. The cover art is a good way to sell it instead. They differ only in their target audience.

I don't see guys wanting hot women as sexist, I see it as genetics, just as women prefer good looking men. Sexism, to me, is telling someone they can't do something based solely on their gender. Knowing your audience, and giving the majority of them what they want, doesn't qualify in my book.

[AslanCross]

I can't say I'd mind the scantily clad women so much if they actually bore more than a hormone crazed resemblance to actual human females. Apparently all of the Soul Calibur women are refugees from planet Bustaramma.

Err, Talim is definitely not. Only Taki, Sophitia and Ivy really qualify, actually. (And the three bonus maid girls from SC3 who ran the shop)

Anyway, I don't really see what the big deal is. The bonus characters are bonus characters. You don't have to play them.

[Tengu]

One example I had open in Firefox of a cool costume more then forgiving having no top but a corset. (http://dresdencodak.com/cartoons/dc_031.htm)

Hey, an RPG where you use philosophy to fight your enemies! Now that's my kind of game!

[EvilElitest]

Raphael is outlandishly dressed?

He has a normal cloaked costume, and a freaky clown costume. but as he is a fencer, I can understand not wearing armor (no comment on hte clown thing)
from
EE

[Jibar]

I'd swear Kasumi had bigger breasts and someone agrees with me:

Actually (I like DOA for the fighting okay. And Zack. Ooohhh Zack...)

Where was I?
Oh yeah, actually, some very very sad people have done checks using models, and Tina is generally the largest.
Now, if you read their measurements in DOA 4, Kasumi isn't actually the biggest. They only look that way because that outfit was never made for support.

Seriously, I only play for the combat.

[Arakune]

To be fair, this game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4eLMweKMzk) have only one woman, only one scene that are revealing (it appeared in the manga, and it's the only scene in the entire series) and the most mainly man characters and the best line for a badass:

Omae wa mou shindeiru -> You are already dead.

And he only missed once (to be fair, that guy have his heart in the wrong place)

Edit: What I really wanted is a Kenshiro cameo in the Guilty Gear series...

[Blue Paladin]

I'd swear Kasumi had bigger breasts and someone agrees with me [to wit: SurlySeraph & Callos_DeTerran]
*sigh*

From wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dead_or_Alive_characters):

B89 W54 H85 cm - Kasumi

B93 W54 H84 cm - Ayane
B90 W58 H85 cm - Hitomi
B93 W59 H88 cm - Christie
B90 W55 H87 cm - Kokoro
B87 W55 H86 cm - Lei Fang (Kasumi's finally bigger than someone!)
B89 W56 H89 cm - Tina (DOA1&2) (wow... who knew Kasumi was once as big as Tina? I certainly didn't remember...)
B95 W60 H89 cm - Tina (DOA3+) (...and apparently Tina went all Nip/Tuck)
B92 W56 H86 cm - Lisa/La Mariposa
B125 W77 H105 cm - SPARTAN-458 <---winner is Nicole! She probably has different measurements when out of armor :smallamused:

[Callos_DeTerran]

*sigh*

From wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dead_or_Alive_characters):

B89 W54 H85 cm - Kasumi

B93 W54 H84 cm - Ayane
B90 W58 H85 cm - Hitomi
B93 W59 H88 cm - Christie
B90 W55 H87 cm - Kokoro
B87 W55 H86 cm - Lei Fang (Kasumi's finally bigger than someone!)
B89 W56 H89 cm - Tina (DOA1&2) (wow... who knew Kasumi was once as big as Tina? I certainly didn't remember...)
B95 W60 H89 cm - Tina (DOA3+) (...and apparently Tina went all Nip/Tuck)
B92 W56 H86 cm - Lisa/La Mariposa
B125 W77 H105 cm - SPARTAN-458 <---winner is Nicole! She probably has different measurements when out of armor :smallamused:

What the hell is this heresy? What on earth is a goddamn SPARTAN doing in DOA?! (If this IS a SPARTAN as I remember them from Halo.)

[Argent]

*sigh*

From wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dead_or_Alive_characters):

B89 W54 H85 cm - Kasumi

B93 W54 H84 cm - Ayane
B90 W58 H85 cm - Hitomi
B93 W59 H88 cm - Christie
B90 W55 H87 cm - Kokoro
B87 W55 H86 cm - Lei Fang (Kasumi's finally bigger than someone!)
B89 W56 H89 cm - Tina (DOA1&2) (wow... who knew Kasumi was once as big as Tina? I certainly didn't remember...)
B95 W60 H89 cm - Tina (DOA3+) (...and apparently Tina went all Nip/Tuck)
B92 W56 H86 cm - Lisa/La Mariposa
B125 W77 H105 cm - SPARTAN-458 <---winner is Nicole! She probably has different measurements when out of armor :smallamused:

Sigh. It's too bad that otherwise good fighting games have to have such a fixation on hot animated women wearing next to no clothes. Now, don't get me wrong. Hot women wearing next to no clothes IN REAL LIFE are more than acceptable; they make the world a happier place to live. But in an animated setting like DoA, it creeps me out how much attention gets paid to making the women hot and... well, jiggly.

I love fighting games. I always have. Ever since I dropped my first quarter into Street Fighter II and got my butt solidly kicked by Blanka, I was hooked. And when I first saw DoA 2, my first reaction: "What a pretty game. What's up with the naked chicks?" I found out that DoA was actually a solid fighting game underneath it all, but I'm embarrassed to play it in front of other people due to the degree of jigglitude.

[Jibar]

but I'm embarrassed to play it in front of other people due to the degree of jigglitude.

Try with my friends. Whenever we play, I'm sitting there trying to remember combos and thinking about what kind of attack they're using so i can use the right hold, while every five minutes one of my friends just shouts "Jiggle!"
I win a lot.

[EvilElitest]

Actually (I like DOA for the fighting okay. And Zack. Ooohhh Zack...)

Where was I?
Oh yeah, actually, some very very sad people have done checks using models, and Tina is generally the largest.
Now, if you read their measurements in DOA 4, Kasumi isn't actually the biggest. They only look that way because that outfit was never made for support.

Seriously, I only play for the combat.

Of course, we won't judge you
from
EE

[Lord_Asmodeus]

I don't see what the big deal is, I mean sure I s'pose it could be perceived as disrespectful to women (I never really CARED that much so I never thought about it) But I think people make a bigger deal out of it than it really is :smallconfused:

[Tengu]

Funny, I think that they did focus on characters and it was an interesting series but a psychologist did once tell me that I have a bad habit of reading too far into things. The nudity in Elfen Lied is hardly sexualised and there are gore free episodes (at least 1).


I missed this post before.

It's not that there's not enough focus on the characters, it's just that they are, at least in my eyes, rather unsympathetic - as I mentioned before when we talked about Elfen Lied, the only characters I really liked were Nana and Mayu. For the rest it's at most anxiety when they are in an extremely dangerous situation, but I feel that way even with barely introduced characters.

The nudity is still fanservice, and was probably devised as such - it's even in the intro and outro. Yup, there are episodes without gore, but there are episodes of Bleachigo without fighting, and don't tell me that fighting is not one of Bleachigo's focuses.

I didn't dislike Elfen Lied, but it had potential to be much better.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

The nudity is still fanservice, and was probably devised as such - it's even in the intro and outro. Yup, there are episodes without gore, but there are episodes of Bleachigo without fighting, and don't tell me that fighting is not one of Bleachigo's focuses.

I didn't dislike Elfen Lied, but it had potential to be much better.

Do you perceive EVERYTHING with nudity as fanservice? There is such a thing as artistic nudity for the sake of art (thats why they put it in the intro at the very least, it was meant to be somewhat of a greek/latin art thing, and the art of that time focused a lot on the beauty of the human form) no offense but it kind of seems going overboard to call something that was supposed to be artsy fanservice just cause it had naked wimminz :smallconfused:

[Drascin]

Try with my friends. Whenever we play, I'm sitting there trying to remember combos and thinking about what kind of attack they're using so i can use the right hold, while every five minutes one of my friends just shouts "Jiggle!"
I win a lot.

Heh. Yep, that happens. I have been accused of liking the whole fanservicey stuff because I tend to play more girls in these games, especially Soul Calibur. I generally smile, pick Cassandra (Valkyrie costume, of course) or Seung Mina, and destroy all of them in a team match :smalltongue: . Then explain that since these games have a fixation with making the girls the fast, agile fighters, and my style being generally making circles around people and strike them while they don't know where to block, it's only logical.

[Tengu]

Do you perceive EVERYTHING with nudity as fanservice?

Yes.


There is such a thing as artistic nudity for the sake of art

An excuse for the artists to drool over their own work, and for people who watch it to say "no no, that's not naked women, that's art!"

Take this post with a pinch of salt. But a very small one.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Yes.



An excuse for the artists to drool over their own work, and for people who watch it to say "no no, that's not naked women, that's art!"

Take this post with a pinch of salt. But a very small one.

I take this post with a scowl and an exasperated rolling of the eyes :smallyuk:

[Closet_Skeleton]

It's not that there's not enough focus on the characters, it's just that they are, at least in my eyes, rather unsympathetic - as I mentioned before when we talked about Elfen Lied, the only characters I really liked were Nana and Mayu.

For a sociopathic murderess, Lucy was very sympathetic. She was still a sociopath and not as likable as Mayu.


Do you perceive EVERYTHING with nudity as fanservice?

Depends on the attractiveness of the naked bodies on display.:smallwink:


Heh. Yep, that happens. I have been accused of liking the whole fanservicey stuff because I tend to play more girls in these games, especially Soul Calibur.

I tend to play female characters in games because the men are always heavily built muscleheads I can't identify with.


Then explain that since these games have a fixation with making the girls the fast, agile fighters,

Blame Street Fighter.

[Drascin]

Yes.



An excuse for the artists to drool over their own work, and for people who watch it to say "no no, that's not naked women, that's art!"

Take this post with a pinch of salt. But a very small one.

Personally, I have to disagree. Naked people is a fact of life, be it women or men. Neither of them bother me in the slightest. They're nothing but humans, after all. The only thing that bothers me is, generally speaking, obvious objectifying. And excessive focus on something that should raise no eyebrows, of course.

But then, I'm known for not really valuing society rules or anything of the sort, which where most of this stems from.


I tend to play female characters in games because the men are always heavily built muscleheads I can't identify with.


Yes, there's that too. When I watch most anime, I always, always, always end up liking the females more than the males. It's just a fact of life, I tend to identify with them more. I don't know whether it is that I'm not masculine or that male characters in general are less likeable. Or probably both :smalltongue:


Blame Street Fighter.

Yah, probably.

[Rutee]

Raphael's shirts, while not as revealing, aren't much better in terms of armor than anyone elses. In fact, out of everyone, the only characters I can recall having a decent preventive set of armor (I have SC2) were Nightmare, Mitsuragi, and the golem. And each of them had a shirtless variant to go with it.
Oh. I wasn't complaining about realistic armor. I don't expect that in a fighting game. I was talking about alienatingly bad costumes.


It comes down to sex sells. No matter what happens, unless we find someway to sterilize and chemically alter the entire world, that will always be true. Personally, I don't understand how that leads to the whole "these costumes are offensive/sexist" arguments. I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I'm fairly sure its a steady one when I say that its more likely that the majority of fighter game players are guys. The makers of said games know this, and use their art to sell to that demographic. But that's no more sexist than, say, romance novel covers, which nine times out of ten show overly muscled and tanned hunks in desperate need of a haircut. Why? Because just like fighter games, romance novels tend to be highly derivative of each other. The cover art is a good way to sell it instead. They differ only in their target audience.
Romance novels were a bad way to try to sympathize fighting games; The majority of them, insofar as I've botherred checking, are garbage. Regardless, none of this makes any of it any less alienating. You're explaining the business sense, but none of that makes me give a damn. Also, "There are a lot of guys that play this, therefore, it's a good idea to have alienatingly bad costumes that are sexy" is a great way to keep other women out of your hobby. Now, granted, this isn't a concern that needs to go to fighting game makers (Aside from how it hurts or doesn't hurt their profits. Likely the latter), but it's another bad way to defend the argument there.


I don't see guys wanting hot women as sexist, I see it as genetics, just as women prefer good looking men. Sexism, to me, is telling someone they can't do something based solely on their gender. Knowing your audience, and giving the majority of them what they want, doesn't qualify in my book.
I don't /think/ anyone said sexist. Just annoying.


Hey, an RPG where you use philosophy to fight your enemies! Now that's my kind of game!
Supposedly, the artist of that comic created and ran Dungeons and Discourse at some point, but he refuses to post his mechanics ;.;

[Innis Cabal]

i've gotta agree with Lord Asmodeus on the skin issue....if i wanted to play a game where all the women were nun's id play La Pucelle Tactics

[EvilElitest]

i've gotta agree with Lord Asmodeus on the skin issue....if i wanted to play a game where all the women were nun's id play La Pucelle Tactics

and if i wanted to see girls running around with animated giant boobs on full display, i'd go find some hentai

Oh and give me a PM innis, i havn't seen you for a while
from
EE

[Mr.Moron]

I don't /think/ anyone said sexist. Just annoying.


Somebody did. Post #15 reads strongly to that effect.




i've gotta agree with Lord Asmodeus on the skin issue....if i wanted to play a game where all the women were nun's id play La Pucelle Tactics

What's with the extremes? Suddenly Nuns and Strippers are the only two options here? I don't know about anyone else, but all I'm asking for is visually appealing designs that don't rely on hyper-sexualitization (Yes I made that term up just now). This doesn't mean throwing burkas on everyone, or reducing secondary sex characteristics to the point of androgyny. It just means seeing things emphasized other well... "boing".

[Jerthanis]

Heh. Yep, that happens. I have been accused of liking the whole fanservicey stuff because I tend to play more girls in these games, especially Soul Calibur. I generally smile, pick Cassandra (Valkyrie costume, of course) or Seung Mina, and destroy all of them in a team match :smalltongue: . Then explain that since these games have a fixation with making the girls the fast, agile fighters, and my style being generally making circles around people and strike them while they don't know where to block, it's only logical.

Same here, I play Taki because she's so fast, not because of her breasts. If she were male, I'd still play him. Chipp is my main guy in Guilty Gear, and Lei is my main in Tekken (though not for his speed, which is only so-so.)

I'd say I mostly go for characters with weird, offbeat and not-straightforward move lists. In Soul Calibur, these tend to be the female characters. In Guilty Gear, this is EVERY character besides maybe Ky.

[Rutee]

What's with the extremes? Suddenly Nuns and Strippers are the only two options here? I don't know about anyone else, but all I'm asking for is visually appealing designs that don't rely on hyper-sexualitization (Yes I made that term up just now). This doesn't mean throwing burkas on everyone, or reducing secondary sex characteristics to the point of androgyny. It just means seeing things emphasized other well... "boing".

Seconded. Just make 'em cool, really. It's not like I flip out just because a woman's sexy. I object to women being used entirely for sex appeal with no meaningful use otherwise.

[EvilElitest]

Seconded. Just make 'em cool, really. It's not like I flip out just because a woman's sexy. I object to women being used entirely for sex appeal with no meaningful use otherwise.

as long as it isn't bloody stupid
from
EE

[Tengu]

Lord_Asmodeus, Drascin - most people like to look at naked (or partially naked) bodies of attractive people of the opposite (or the same in some cases) gender. It's a fact. There's nothing shameful in that. Giving images of attractive naked bodies is a way of pleasing the audience, especially in cases where the nudity is not necessary and it would make as much artistic sense if the people were fully clothed (and I have a hard time thinking up an example where an accent on the subject's nakedness would increase the artistic value of something). Once again, there's nothing bad in liking this or that form of fanservice, because everyone does it to some extent. Except from H. P. Lovecraft.

Also, I agree with all the posts from Mr. Moron's last one up to this one.


For a sociopathic murderess, Lucy was very sympathetic. She was still a sociopath and not as likable as Mayu.


There is a saying in Poland: "for a hunchback, he is quite straight".

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Lord_Asmodeus, Drascin - most people like to look at naked (or partially naked) bodies of attractive people of the opposite (or the same in some cases) gender. It's a fact. There's nothing shameful in that. Giving images of attractive naked bodies is a way of pleasing the audience, especially in cases where the nudity is not necessary and it would make as much artistic sense if the people were fully clothed (and I have a hard time thinking up an example where an accent on the subject's nakedness would increase the artistic value of something). Once again, there's nothing bad in liking this or that form of fanservice, because everyone does it to some extent. Except from H. P. Lovecraft.

Again http://forum.spacebattles.com/forumimg/smilies//rolleyes.gif
*exasperated sigh*

[Archangel Yuki]

Foamy the squirrile, episode 115.

"It's like you have cheat codes for real life, but instead of cheat codes, there boobs!"

[Tengu]

Again http://forum.spacebattles.com/forumimg/smilies//rolleyes.gif
*exasperated sigh*

That's not a counter-argument. That's just a snotty way of saying "I disagree with you".

[SilentNight]

*sigh*

From wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dead_or_Alive_characters):

B89 W54 H85 cm - Kasumi

B93 W54 H84 cm - Ayane
B90 W58 H85 cm - Hitomi
B93 W59 H88 cm - Christie
B90 W55 H87 cm - Kokoro
B87 W55 H86 cm - Lei Fang (Kasumi's finally bigger than someone!)
B89 W56 H89 cm - Tina (DOA1&2) (wow... who knew Kasumi was once as big as Tina? I certainly didn't remember...)
B95 W60 H89 cm - Tina (DOA3+) (...and apparently Tina went all Nip/Tuck)
B92 W56 H86 cm - Lisa/La Mariposa
B125 W77 H105 cm - SPARTAN-458 <---winner is Nicole! She probably has different measurements when out of armor :smallamused:

Who the heck has this kind of time on their hands? Also I nominate this thread for most off topic in the history of the boards.

[warty goblin]

Lord_Asmodeus, Drascin - most people like to look at naked (or partially naked) bodies of attractive people of the opposite (or the same in some cases) gender. It's a fact. There's nothing shameful in that. Giving images of attractive naked bodies is a way of pleasing the audience, especially in cases where the nudity is not necessary and it would make as much artistic sense if the people were fully clothed (and I have a hard time thinking up an example where an accent on the subject's nakedness would increase the artistic value of something). Once again, there's nothing bad in liking this or that form of fanservice, because everyone does it to some extent. Except from H. P. Lovecraft.


I dunno, LOTR is pretty light on the fanservice as well. I mean, I guess Sam has kids at the end, and Aragorn gets married, but that's about it...

Although I suppose there's more LOTR slash fiction. At least I assume there's more LOTR slash fiction. If there's Lovecraft slash fiction I really don't want to think about it. [loses SAN]

[Tengu]

I dunno, LOTR is pretty light on the fanservice as well. I mean, I guess Sam has kids at the end, and Aragorn gets married, but that's about it...

Although I suppose there's more LOTR slash fiction. At least I assume there's more LOTR slash fiction. If there's Lovecraft slash fiction I really don't want to think about it. [loses SAN]

Ah, I see! I didn't state myself clearly, sorry everyone. I didn't mean that everyone puts fanservice in their works, I meant that everyone likes fanservice in one way or another. Apart from H. P. Lovecraft because, as a popular theory goes, he was completely asexual.

[warty goblin]

Ah, I see! I didn't state myself clearly, sorry everyone. I didn't mean that everyone puts fanservice in their works, I meant that everyone likes fanservice in one way or another. Apart from H. P. Lovecraft because, as a popular theory goes, he was completely asexual.


Ah good, for a minute there I was imagining...no! AARRGG!

[Rutee]

Ah good, for a minute there I was imagining...no! AARRGG!

Everyone keeps telling me those Integrity dots/That "Block Disturbing Mental Image" feat were total wastes of character optimization, but I showed them!

Specifically, I showed them disturbing mental images. Like Sol x Ky :smallbiggrin:

[Innis Cabal]

Sol and Ky are good friends! Nothing more! if you want service, they've written it, look at Venom

[Rutee]

Sol and Ky are good friends! Nothing more! if you want service, they've written it, look at Venom

GGXX, one of them has an ending that is basically explicitly slash fic. *That's* Manservice :P

...I'm actually genuinely surprised there isn't a similar yuri one.

[Innis Cabal]

And thats why Guilty gear is greater then all fighting games that have come before and will come after frankly. It dosnt do what other fighting games does, while beating them all where it does

[Tengu]

...I'm actually genuinely surprised there isn't a similar yuri one.

Well, the girls of GG don't really meet each other a lot. Though I-No says some rather naughty stuff to Dizzy once...

At least Phoenix Wright, apart from a lot HoYay shiptease, has some LesYay shiptease too. More or less.

Lana: So that's why I was attracted to Mia.
Phoenix: Attracted?
Ema: Intellectually, Nick, intellectually!
Me: Curses!

[Cubey]

Well, the girls of GG don't really meet each other a lot. Though I-No says some rather naughty stuff to Dizzy once...


Naughty stuff doesn't count. Time for a simulation! Here's a list of Guilty Gear females and their corresponding possible romantic partners:

May - enamored in Johnny
Jam - enamored in Ky Kiske
Millia Rage - no one, as far as I know
I-no - possibly feels something towards That Man, also a past love/hate relationship with Sol Badguy
Baiken - hate/less hate relationship with Anji Mito. Hey, that counts!
Dizzy - Johnny hits on her, but Johnny hits on every girl (including Bridget - hah hah, that was a surprise when he found out!) so it doesn't count
ABA - has Paracelsus

So, the obvious solution is Millia/Dizzy yuri. To quote Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya:
"Somehow, I think I wouldn't mind seeing that."

[Rutee]

If you can defrost Millia a bit, I'd support it. There's even a thematic link with them being 'meant' to be weapons!

The thought occurs to me that I'd be looking at this entirely on the axes of "Cute" (And anything with Dizzy is) and "Story appropriate". I'm quite glad I'm not looking at this through the same lens that others might be :P

[Lord_Asmodeus]

That's not a counter-argument. That's just a snotty way of saying "I disagree with you".

No its an agreeably jackassy way of saying I don't think its worth trying to counter, as it probably won't sway you and in the end, I really don't care about your opinion, because you seem rather short sighted and narrow minded to me, about this atleast. sorry.

[Cubey]

As far as Justice goes - the reason why I didn't put her on any of my list is very simple, I forgot about her. I have to admit though, she has her good reasons to be absent from both lists. Her relationships are too much of a spoiler, as for fanservice factor of her attire - well, a creature that looks like a cross between a white/blue dragon thing and Samus Aran (the power-armored version, not Zero Suit) evokes feelings of fanservice, but definitely not the tittilation-oriented kind.

[North]

Back to Vader and Yoda......

My biggest gripe is if you can only have one per system how the hell can they fight each other? :smallfrown:

[Closet_Skeleton]

Millia Rage - no one, as far as I know

So, the obvious solution is Millia/Dizzy yuri. To quote Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya:
"Somehow, I think I wouldn't mind seeing that."

Sorry, but Millia likes Zato-1 just like Venom does.

[Rutee]

Sorry, but Millia likes Zato-1 just like Venom does.

You just don't understand what it means to ship, do you?

[Closet_Skeleton]

You just don't understand what it means to ship, do you?

Yes, regretfully I do. I'm pretty sure it tends to involve a lot of ignoring authorial intent, so the fact that the game hints that Millia liked Zato-1 but killed him anyway.

My comment was directed at the person who couldn't remember Millia liking anyone. I wasn't interfering with any shiping.

[Khanderas]

Yeah, Ivy and Taki are just... creepy, and I fail to see the point of such disbelief-breaking... endowment.

But then, I have been asking myself for ages how in the Nine Hells does someone find Ivy fitting in the least for the adjective "attractive". I assume someone has to, since her bust grows every game and she always features in every trailer, and I believe Namco's PR to know their customer base, but... seriously, why?
Im not up to date on the lore on SoulCalibur but Ivy is insane and dabbles in sorcery and darker stuff still, as i recall. Then the boobs wont be the only unnatural with her.
Taki though. well . I don have a good reply, or even a bad explanation.

[Tengu]

No its an agreeably jackassy way of saying I don't think its worth trying to counter, as it probably won't sway you and in the end, I really don't care about your opinion, because you seem rather short sighted and narrow minded to me, about this atleast. sorry.

Well, neither do I really care about an opinion from someone who thinks that objectification of women in computer games (which is what scares many girl gamers away) is not that much of an issue, either. So let's drop the discussion.

---------------------

Back to the offtopic - I think that shipping is pure evil, and most fanfics are pure evil too. Fanart is okay, as long as it doesn't depict sexually-oriented material or stuff that could classify as shipping or fanfics in an image, not written form. Of course, the artistic value is a completely different matter altogether.

Anything to support my claim? Just one word: Zutaang. Way to spoil the innocent, family-friendly cartoon the inner child in me loves to watch.

[Jerthanis]

Anything to support my claim? Just one word: Zutaang. Way to spoil the innocent, family-friendly cartoon the inner child in me loves to watch.

First of all, there's maybe 5% of fanfiction that isn't about relationships at all, and perhaps 10% that depicts the canon pairing getting together. You'll understand that TV shows love to avoid getting the canon pairing together to preserve the interests of the audience. Sometimes watchers who watch primarily to see romantic subplots resolve get screwed by Last Minute Hookups (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LastMinuteHookup), where the two are jammed together in the very last episode. Exceptions exist, like The Office (American) where the will they or won't they (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WillTheyOrWontThey) couple gets together before the end of the show, which is still ongoing. However, for every The Office, there are ten... (tries to think of an example that doesn't show how girly my tastes are... gives up) Gilmore Girls, where the writers only succeed at pairing up two great tastes that taste great together at the very last second.

Then there's the other 85% of fanfiction to which you're entirely correct. On a related note, Zutaang? Is that Zuko/Katara/Aang, like, all at once, or did you just typo Zukaang?

[Foeofthelance]

...that objectification of women in computer games (which is what scares many girl gamers away)...

You think that's what scares female gamers away? I could swear it had more to do with the fact that the only games that seem to consider so-called 'feminine' concerns were RPGs, which generally take hours to slog through, or boring sections of level grinding to beat. Which is why you generally find the majority of them to be involved in games such as D&D and MMORPGs, which at least have the benefit of social activity mixed in with the mindless adventuring*. Seriously, almost every game tends to dress the girls up in ridiculous costumes. Mialee, for example, is probably the only wizard I've ever seen with an exposed navel. Ember, the monk, is wearing capris and a wrap around support that does nothing to hide her body. Almost every decently high leveled BBEG has at least one succubus running around as a concubine, at least when it's humanoid. And do I even need to mention the words 'chainmail bikini'?

Yet none of this things seem to hinder female gamers from joining up, as this forum is clear to express. I think its much more likely that the majority of female gamers simply don't like mindless button mashing fighters than that they don't play because of the costumes.





*This is based on my own experiences with girls and gaming. Sit them down for D&D, an MMORPG, or heck, even Mario Party and its derivatives, and they take to it like a fish to water. Take 'em to a Halo LAN party, and they're just as happy to watch the action as partake in it, with, of course, tastes varying along the curve.

[Rutee]

You think that's what scares female gamers away? I could swear it had more to do with the fact that the only games that seem to consider so-called 'feminine' concerns were RPGs, which generally take hours to slog through, or boring sections of level grinding to beat. Which is why you generally find the majority of them to be involved in games such as D&D and MMORPGs, which at least have the benefit of social activity mixed in with the mindless adventuring*. Seriously, almost every game tends to dress the girls up in ridiculous costumes. Mialee, for example, is probably the only wizard I've ever seen with an exposed navel. Ember, the monk, is wearing capris and a wrap around support that does nothing to hide her body. Almost every decently high leveled BBEG has at least one succubus running around as a concubine, at least when it's humanoid. And do I even need to mention the words 'chainmail bikini'?
Tengu over-exagerrated, but if you really think titilation based fanservice doesn't make women gag, well. How many women really liked Baywatch? It's an alienating factor, period. Not the only one, but one of them.


Yet none of this things seem to hinder female gamers from joining up, as this forum is clear to express. I think its much more likely that the majority of female gamers simply don't like mindless button mashing fighters than that they don't play because of the costumes.
I imagine that the reality of the situation is that women gamers are just as diverse as male ones, though I really don't have a good sample size to speak on the subject because kindred spirits are rare as hell. One of my best friends greatly enjoys action games though, such as Shadow of the Colossus (Well that's also puzzle-ish..), and I happen to greatly enjoy fighting games (I /suck/ at them, but that's not the same thing as not enjoying them) and shmups. As well as the ones you mentioned, such as RPGs and whatnot.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I think games designers need to start considering that maybe women don't play their games because their games are bad.

Gender targeted marketing is also important, few videogames being marketed towards women. Yet I'm a guy and I don't find the overly masculine soldiers on the cover of games like Gears of War appealing. The feminist arguements about whether or not the 'genders' being targeted are social constructs would bog down this thread with even more off topic insanity (even if talking about what puts people off games is a quarter relevent to the topic).

I'm not a woman that plays videogames, so I tend to assume that women that don't play videogames don't play them because they weren't brought up in the environment that I was brought up in (which led me to play videogames). My female cousin seems to view the video games her little brother plays as stupid and pointless, but that may just be because she associates them with her little brother.

Pity Teiresias isn't around to pose questions like this to.


Tengu over-exagerrated, but if you really think titilation based fanservice doesn't make women gag, well. How many women really liked Baywatch? It's an alienating factor, period. Not the only one, but one of them.

This is a heterosexual centric arguement, useful but limited.


I imagine that the reality of the situation is that women gamers are just as diverse as male ones

The idea that women aren't one big hivemind "sisterhood" is regretably lost on people like me. I have to consiously force myself not to think that way and I'm sure a lot of lonely geeks don't bother.


(I /suck/ at them, but that's not the same thing as not enjoying them)

*nods*

[Tengu]

Yup, I'm exaggerating - it's obvious there's more that makes computer games much less popular among female population than among males. However, it's safe to assume that too much male-oriented fanservice is one of those things.

It all boils down to one thing - make characters in your game, both male and female, people, not just walking excuses for fanservice. Both Tifa and Baiken, for example, have huge bosoms, but despite that are cool and deep characters - because the size of their racks wasn't the main thing that the authors were thinking when designing them.

I think this thread is becoming too serious again, and the topics a bit too touchy. Let's maneuver it into a silly direction again, shall we?



Then there's the other 85% of fanfiction to which you're entirely correct. On a related note, Zutaang? Is that Zuko/Katara/Aang, like, all at once, or did you just typo Zukaang?

I meant Zukaang. Fortunately. I managed not to think too much about the alternative.

[Mr.Moron]

I think this thread is becoming too serious again, and the topics a bit too touchy. Let's maneuver it into a silly direction again, shall we?


Really? I thought things were getting pretty interesting, fair bit to comment on in even just last couple of posts... Oh well. I will strongly disagree with your assertion of Tifa being a cool character however. I actually disliked the cast of FF7 in general though, so I'm a bit biased. Which isn't to say I didn't like the game, i just didn't find it to be the most interesting set of characters in the series.

[Tengu]

I on the other hand liked the cast of FF7 in general. Replace Tifa with another big-busted girl you like then.

Just not Lara Croft. She is exactly the bad type of female computer game character - personality-less walking fanservice. Not to mention that most of her fans consider her the first important female character in computer games, completely ignoring Samus Aran and a whole legion of RPG heroines.

[Foeofthelance]

Tengu over-exagerrated, but if you really think titilation based fanservice doesn't make women gag, well. How many women really liked Baywatch? It's an alienating factor, period. Not the only one, but one of them.

Really? My mom and sisters loved Baywatch, what with all those bronzed hunks running around topless. Granted, Baywatch also had plot to it, above and beyond bouncing Pamela Anderson around the screen. They had the same reaction to Relic Hunter, which was basically Tomb Raider on television, and the male lead wasn't even that good looking their opinion. Again, it had good stories that made it fun.

I think that's what it comes down to in the end. Fighter games just don't seem to have a broad enough appeal to female gamers. If they did, the costumes (probably, we are talking about products from a country that pretty much invented the concept of fanservice) wouldn't be as bad, for fear of isolating customers. But instead they've given up tying to sell to females, who weren't buying, and simply cater to those who are. That's just semi-sound marketing.

Someone above mentioned Tifa from FF. While just as ludicrous as the fighter girls, she got a pass. Why? Because she had characterization. And she's not even the worse of the RPG lasses! How about Shion and KOS-MOS from Xenosaga? Penelo, Ashe, and the entire Viera race from FFXII? How about FFX-2? The entire point of the game was dressing up the three main leads in skimpy outfits! But if these girls are ever criticized, it is done rarely. Why? Because they all exist in worlds with plots, and have in game characterizations that extend beyond two minutes of badly voice taunts.

[Cubey]

My comment was directed at the person who couldn't remember Millia liking anyone. I wasn't interfering with any shiping.

Hey, it's me! I guess I am not recognized because I have no avatar, and thus I mend into the avatar-less crowd. Sniffle.

Anyway, you're right. Millia is kinda... taken, involved in Zato-1 (although Zato-1 hated women, don't forget). That leaves out Dizzy, but if you consider the epileptic tree that is supposed to be Guilty Gear 2's story...

Here it is. It's all based on a wikipedia article - I have no idea where they got the info from, and how accurate is it. All I know if that it's true and not a real life or in-game deception of some kind then they better try REALLY hard to pull it off. It will be tricky.
It takes place 5 years after the last Guilty Gear, that's GG XX, and Sol is traveling around the world with a sidekick who is Ky Kiske's SON. At the same time, Ky Kiske is a KING of some obscure nation, and his wife, and the kid's mother, is a GEAR who is strongly hinted to be DIZZY. That means the son, who is already somewhat of a fighter, is at best five years old, and that Dizzy (if that's her) despite all her intellectual/physical maturity, is a mother at the age of EIGHT. Squick aside, it strikes me really out of character for both Ky Kiske and Dizzy, so I suspect either weird alternate dimensions or time travel are at work here - both exist in Guilty Gear after all. If not, then as I said - they will have to try really hard not to make it a wallbanger. Plus, Jam will be angry as hell.

[Mr.Moron]

Really? My mom and sisters loved Baywatch, what with all those bronzed hunks running around topless. Granted, Baywatch also had plot to it, above and beyond bouncing Pamela Anderson around the screen. They had the same reaction to Relic Hunter, which was basically Tomb Raider on television, and the male lead wasn't even that good looking their opinion. Again, it had good stories that made it fun.

I think that's what it comes down to in the end. Fighter games just don't seem to have a broad enough appeal to female gamers. If they did, the costumes (probably, we are talking about products from a country that pretty much invented the concept of fanservice) wouldn't be as bad, for fear of isolating customers. But instead they've given up tying to sell to females, who weren't buying, and simply cater to those who are. That's just semi-sound marketing.

Someone above mentioned Tifa from FF. While just as ludicrous as the fighter girls, she got a pass. Why? Because she had characterization. And she's not even the worse of the RPG lasses! How about Shion and KOS-MOS from Xenosaga? Penelo, Ashe, and the entire Viera race from FFXII? How about FFX-2? The entire point of the game was dressing up the three main leads in skimpy outfits! But if these girls are ever criticized, it is done rarely. Why? Because they all exist in worlds with plots, and have in game characterizations that extend beyond two minutes of badly voice taunts.

I'd be willing to express some pretty big issues with RPG females. Heck, I'm not even that big a fighter-player, most of my feelings on the issue largely stem from designs in RPGs, actually. The problem is present in nearly all genres of gaming. However, as some folks seem to be tiring of the topic, I won't push that particular point.

[EvilElitest]

No its an agreeably jackassy way of saying I don't think its worth trying to counter, as it probably won't sway you and in the end, I really don't care about your opinion, because you seem rather short sighted and narrow minded to me, about this atleast. sorry.

Isn't this a double standard in its most perfect form
from
EE

[Tengu]

Hmm, I reached the fourth case in Phoenix Wright: Justice For All, and the amount of LesYay subtext increased dramatically. Though the reappearance of a certain character probably had the fangirls screaming, too.

[Rutee]

Hmm, I reached the fourth case in Phoenix Wright: Justice For All, and the amount of LesYay subtext increased dramatically. Though the reappearance of a certain character probably had the fangirls screaming, too.

Yay for everyone winning? If you wanna talk lesyay.. maybe I'm just inured to it because of the HUGE amounts of adorable fanart, but.. Touhou series.

[Tengu]

Yay for everyone winning?

I'd guess. Though, not to give a false image of the Phoenix Wright series, it's actually very light on fanservice, which mostly consists of lots of attractive women. The subtexts are very rare and subtle.



If you wanna talk lesyay.. maybe I'm just inured to it because of the HUGE amounts of adorable fanart, but.. Touhou series.

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with them. I'll probably have to ask TV Tropes and maybe Wikipedia.

[Rutee]

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with them. I'll probably have to ask TV Tropes and maybe Wikipedia.

It's a bullet hell shooter series. Every single Playable Character is an adorable little girl, and there just seems to be a lot of subtext between them. Which ends up not botherring me because everyone's cute as hell :P