The Order Of The Stick: March [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

evileeyore

2005-03-01, 06:35 PM

Elan was in the lead with Haley, thus the Bandits presumed either he or Haleys was the leader.

As difficult as the crew would be to defeat they decided to take a hostage.

Looking at the two (Haley and Elan), Elan is the more "Noble" in appearance. He dresses well, deports himself with style, and just shouts "Hey 18 Charisma here".

Thus Elanis the probably the most "Noble" person the Bandits have ever seen. Ergo, Elan is the leader of this band. If he can afford to hire the muscle that was following him, then either he or his family has money.

Bandits love money even more than brigandry.

Andorax

2005-03-01, 07:26 PM

There's that...and the fact that he was more accessable. When Haley walked our young rogue back into the middle of OoTS' melee fighters, she rather foolishly left Elan in exactly the same position (assuming melee-rogues with ropes hiding in the bushes on either side).

Edalmri

2005-03-01, 07:55 PM

I wouldn't really say leaving him was foolish of Haley since Elan chose to stand there.

Adghar

2005-03-02, 12:32 AM

I have no opinion either way, but the first time I saw panel two, I thought the bush lines were deformed legs and I was like "What the whisker?!" And then after 4 minutes of studying it I'm like "Oh those are bushes."

Gorbash Kazdar

2005-03-02, 01:15 AM

The bandits have been hired by the Linear Guild, Elan is being carried to them now, Nale has a vendetta against Elan, or some sort of Evil MasterMind thing going, and wants to either convert Elan to the dark side, or do really, really bad things to him.
Actually, I really doubt Nale has anything to do with this group of bandits. Just check this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=142). Nale doesn't know much about the forest, he just wants the heroes out of his hair while he recruits more Linear Guild members. If anyone in the Order dies, that's just frosting on the cake as far as Nale is concerned.

Much more likely is the simple explanation - the bandits figured the Order was too tough to take on head to head. I mean, they got the drop on them, blocked the sun out with arrows, and then moved to melee - and still weren't winning. Taking Elan hostage gives them an edge - after all, they just want to take the Order's stuff, not neccessarily kill them.

I am looking forward to what happens next - bet they come to regret picking Elan as a hostage. I agree with evil-e's reasoning, and also Andorax's point about accessability.

Frojoe21

2005-03-02, 05:49 AM

Duskrider_Moogle

2005-03-02, 08:53 AM

Notice how roy referred to Elan as "Nothing too valuable". That may have just been good timing, but i have a freind who is like a violent elan, and he ain't anything too valuable.

Sorry Mitch, your still cool in a gum stealing sort of way

Giving the Order's record, it's safe to say no one even noticed Elan was gone.

Although when they do notice, it's pretty likely that won't change anything.

Edalmri

2005-03-02, 08:56 AM

Of course not. They'll probably just sit around talking until Elan walks back, just like what happened with Durkon.

Gorbash Kazdar

2005-03-02, 10:49 AM

This is a recurring theme with them... they lost Elan in the fight with the ogres way back in comic #5, then Durkon, then Haley, and now Elan again. Always takes them a while to realize somebody isn't there.

Edalmri

2005-03-02, 10:55 AM

Well, the first time Elan got lost he made it back on his own before anyone even noticed his absence, maybe it'll happen again?

Grey Watcher

2005-03-02, 11:13 AM

I didn't think he'd gotten lost. I only just now noticed he's only depicted in the last panel, but I had always assumed he'd been with the group the entire time.

Edalmri

2005-03-02, 11:15 AM

I always figured he'd just kept running when everyone else was running into each other.

GeekDaddy

2005-03-02, 11:17 AM

Simple. Nale has hired the bandits to kidnap Elan. Nale is going to shave his goatee, cut off his pony tail and infiltrate the OOTS party by pretending to be his estranged twin. Meanwhile, back at the castle, Sabine is left babysitting Elan and Thog who's combined intellect reduce her to a quivvering mass of Jello, bringing new meaning to the phrase "Dumbing down."

Andorax

2005-03-02, 12:19 PM

Techonce

2005-03-02, 03:16 PM

Everyone forgets how important Elan is.

1. He provides comic relief. OotS will notice that they have less to be amused by (or in Roy's case, less to be annoyed by)

2. Belkar will want XP and look for Elan to hurt. With his favorite target gone (although he has gotten ROy a few times), he will have to try and get someone else.

3. Haley will miss him quickly. WHat a wierd romance that is.

After looking at the last few comics. They were trying to get Elan. The kids told them they were there to take their most valuable possession. Not possessions. or I'm seeing too much into it. I do agree that the Bard is the most valuable possession. Of course I like to play bards...

My favorite was the one who played a set of field pipes. None of that inspiring the party with song. Fight harder or I won't stop playing.... And he was a morning person. Bagpipes... better than a bugle.

Techonce

2005-03-02, 03:29 PM

After reading an older comic... Elan still has that Girdle of Feminity/Masculinity he picked up.... Wonder if that will ever come back into play. I always imagined V putting it on and having nothing happen.

Lilly

2005-03-02, 04:53 PM

Since when does Nale have a pony tail? ??? ???

I can see how Nale could be involved in this. He's baseing his plan off of rumors and other adventurers taking care of the goal ahead of time. If he suddenly found out that either the goal hadn't been taken care of or the forest was easier than he thought he might drop a bit of gold to get it taken care of quicker.

GeekDaddy

2005-03-02, 05:22 PM

OK, I thought he had a pony tail in the last frame of #142, but now that I go back and look at it, it is probably just a strategically placed doorknob (and now I feel like a doorknob). Oddly, that means Nale and Elan have hair the color of polished brass...

Master_of_Dragons

2005-03-02, 06:04 PM

Oddly, that means Nale and Elan have hair the color of polished brass...
Look closer! There's a slight difference between the two colors :P.

Master of Dragons

GeekDaddy

2005-03-02, 06:46 PM

Not to one with my variation of color blindness. :)

Gorbash Kazdar

2005-03-02, 06:49 PM

I still think you guys are reading too much into this, though that particular wording is interesting.

More likely, the three bandits-in-training were just assigned that particular task and also didn't want to carry too much stuff while they got away.

Also, why would the bandits send out three newbs to handle the job? The head bandit's statements indicate they weren't meant as a distraction. Plus, Nale may be evil, but I doubt that he would misrepresent the abilities of the party to the bandits if he wanted them to capture Elan, and the bandits would have to be pretty dumb to think a trio of level 2s could take on the Order.

[Hey, 1000th post ;D]

Frojoe21

2005-03-02, 07:52 PM

Congrats.

I still think Elan will break the bandits brains

SuperRed

2005-03-02, 09:40 PM

I think the bandits will end up begging the party to take Elan back,and paying the party for it!

garand

2005-03-02, 09:54 PM

Come on people!

The bandits are wearing armor.
Hobgoblins wear armor too.
So the bandits must be in league with the hobgoblins.
The hobgoblins and therefore the bandits work for Xykon.
Xykon is a lich who has been defeated and so needs a new body.
Elan has a body.
So the bandits are stealing Elan to use in a ceremony to restore Xykon to a physical form.
Elan would be the perfect subject because his mind is an "empty vessal".

OR ... maybe ... instead of wild tangent guessing and reading into clever dialogue we can just wait until tommorow and see the perfectly normal, hopefully funny, results. 8)

Edalmri

2005-03-02, 09:57 PM

But guessing's so much fun. And speaking for Xykon, having a body that Roy would enjoy, immensely, beating up definitely counts as a minus. If he remembers who Roy is of course.

Frojoe21

2005-03-02, 10:06 PM

The other thing being that Xyklons pylacetary will create a new body for him. he doesnt need a new one. And besides, the bandits are just common bandits. And nothing more...

Grey Watcher

2005-03-02, 10:08 PM

Grey Watcher...go back one more comic. When Haley led "the kid" back to the middle of the OoTS, Elan was left out in front right next to the other two youthful bandits.

I have another theory, but I'm going to shut up about it, as I think I may have it right this time.

I was talking about the discussions of Elan's apparently going missing back in #5. (Someone menteiond this would be the second time Elan's gone missing.)

Gorbash Kazdar

2005-03-02, 10:38 PM

I may have overstated the comic #5 incident, but it does fit into the pattern of the Order failing to notice someone not being with them for an extended time. Don't forget, they were already done with the fight and healing up before Elan wandered back, and only then did they notice he had been gone.

bournie

2005-03-03, 02:25 AM

Hehe, Operation send the meatshield in first!

Loved the latin e'tu Belkar that always gives me a smile. (I don't know why Julius Ceasar moves me so)

Lilly

2005-03-03, 02:32 AM

"Operation wait for Roy to come up with a better plan"

Hehehe. It makes me giggle. And Roy seems to be speaking from experience at the begining of the strip.

mimicgogo

2005-03-03, 02:45 AM

Excellent. Unexpected loyalty on all sides, a crazy turn of events. That's the OoTS we all know and love.

"Roy has boobies!"...Still priceless.

RBPRX1204

2005-03-03, 02:55 AM

Holy crap, it's 2am, and there's a new comic on-board. Meat shield, hehe! Since I'm playing a wizard in my adventure, I like that plan, just about every time! "Ok, there are the kobolds, everybody in front of me please, thank you very much."

Shatteredtower

2005-03-03, 02:55 AM

I rather liked the allegorical penicillin reference -- a creative anachronism, if ever I saw one.

And I was aware of the fact that this wasn't a random encounter. That was pretty much my point. It's science, you know. ;)

DNiemoeller

2005-03-03, 03:07 AM

Heads up to Rich

In panel nine of #153, I suspect, "... should find where we've taken..." should probably read, "...should find where they've taken..."

White Blade

2005-03-03, 03:25 AM

young grasshopper, if he reads this thread he won't do that....

Kish

2005-03-03, 03:31 AM

young grasshopper, if he reads this thread he won't do that....
...huh?

I'm pretty sure he never said he wouldn't correct typos if someone pointed them out.

Nikolai_II

2005-03-03, 03:57 AM

young grasshopper, if he reads this thread he won't do that....

He already has (fixed the typo, that is) ;)

metaofantioch

2005-03-03, 04:29 AM

Just checked for the typo, and it seems it's already been fixed. Rich moves quickly like the wind and stealthy like the Ninja.

Sebastian

2005-03-03, 05:06 AM

Its March now.
I think Elan will find out the bandits aren't playing around and than he will single-handedly defeat every bandit. But he will get lost on way back...

He is a bard with an obviously high charisma. he could befreind them all or even became their new leader... well, befriend them all, it is.
Or he could use his secret weapons "let me go or I start crying". :D

DNiemoeller

2005-03-03, 05:41 AM

Just checked for the typo, and it seems it's already been fixed. Rich moves quickly like the wind and stealthy like the Ninja.

Yes, it is now fixed. The man is fast indeed. ;D

Aidan305

2005-03-03, 08:32 AM

I wonder id this means that Roy is violating his allignment?

Edalmri

2005-03-03, 08:37 AM

It depends on what kind of lawful good he is. If he wants to make the world a better place by defeating villains then leaving Elan behind makes sense because he needs a new sword, which would be useful, and Elan didn't do much against Xykon. Or...anything at all if I remember right.

ObadiahtheSlim

2005-03-03, 09:40 AM

**snicker** Roy has boobies (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=102)
Nice reference to that previous comic.

Kaerou

2005-03-03, 10:28 AM

One of the best rescent comics.. made me giggle... alot!

You see... Traveling with Elan.. is kind of like, say.. adventuring with Syphilis. It can be done for a while, but its not easy and its not pretty.

Roy has Boobies.

ShadowDragon8685

2005-03-03, 10:34 AM

Okay, it's official. Time to pick up a rock, bash 'roy' over the head, and slay him. When slain, he will revert to his true Doppleganger form, of course.

Because the Roy Greenhilt I know would not abandon Elan so carelessly, and definately not to bandits. He's a good and kind man, with a heart of gold and loyalty to his friends. Even if Elan is a useless git at times, he still makes people laugh, he can use bardic magic to cure people, he can inspire confidence and all the rest.

So yeah. This guy's not Roy. You can take that to the Bank.

Shatteredtower

2005-03-03, 10:35 AM

... Elan didn't do much against Xykon. Or...anything at all if I remember right.

What? Elan was all over that action!

First he is given the task of investigating the portal, a great responsibility.

Then he is convinced not to touch it, showing great trust in his allies (or at least Haley).

Then he is subjected to the effects of a symbol of pain. This is sometimes referred to as "Taking one for the team."

After this, he goes on to blow up the villain's fortress, showing great personal initiative with truly spectacular results.

And after all that, he is enough of an artist to make sure we get our proper dramatic conclusion.

The great artists are never appreciated in their own time... :(

GeekDaddy

2005-03-03, 10:49 AM

Ooooooh! Roy seems to be slipping towards the dark side!

Of course, Roy will now need to ride in and save Haley, Durkon, Belkar and V and end up saving Elan (much to Roy's chagrin) who will then swear his undying loyalty, devotion and fealty to Roy...

Or maybe Roy just gets lost in the woods by himself and a now freed-by-the-party Elan comes to HIS rescue in a moment of poetic irony...

Or... or...

GypsyThorn

2005-03-03, 10:51 AM

Actually, I really doubt Nale has anything to do with this group of bandits. Just check this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=142). Nale doesn't know much about the forest, he just wants the heroes out of his hair while he recruits more Linear Guild members. If anyone in the Order dies, that's just frosting on the cake as far as Nale is concerned.

Much more likely is the simple explanation - the bandits figured the Order was too tough to take on head to head. I mean, they got the drop on them, blocked the sun out with arrows, and then moved to melee - and still weren't winning. Taking Elan hostage gives them an edge - after all, they just want to take the Order's stuff, not neccessarily kill them.

So, you say meeting the bandits is a random encounter, and I say it has something to do with the Linear Guild. Sounds like a challenge.

(Actually, it doesn't sound anything like a challenge, it's more of a polite disagreement. But if it wasn't a challenge, then I can't proceed with my acceptance and the choice of weapons. So, for the sake of arguement, may we call it a challenge?)

My terms are this: The loser of the challenge has to write a limerick praising the winner. And not just any limerick. A nice, bi-level limerick, right next to the path, maybe with a little gate. The limerick has to actually rhyme, have good meter, and show the evidence of some thought.

Finally, if we're both wrong - if it's not just a random encounter, and it's not anything to do with the Linear Guild - then we both write a limerick praising, I don't know, something like the moon in June and a spoon. Something that's easy to rhyme with.

So, Gorbash Kazdar, doth thou accept my terms?

Janitor

2005-03-03, 11:32 AM

Numerous times Elan has gotten on Roy's nerves starting from "Bluff, Bluff, Bluff...", to running around naked, to Banjo, etc.

Roy has yet to view Elan as an asset.

It did surprise me though that Belkar would be in favor of rescuing him. Durkon's loyalty and Haley underlying relationship did not surprise me. I do like how V is beginning to come around towards Elan. V tended to be more self-centered and, like Roy, saw Elan as a nuisance, i.e. "Concentrate, Concentrate, Concentrate..." and "Elanicalicus".

Overall, great comic!

Edalmri

2005-03-03, 11:56 AM

What? Elan was all over that action!

First he is given the task of investigating the portal, a great responsibility.

Then he is convinced not to touch it, showing great trust in his allies (or at least Haley).

Then he is subjected to the effects of a symbol of pain. This is sometimes referred to as "Taking one for the team."

After this, he goes on to blow up the villain's fortress, showing great personal initiative with truly spectacular results.

And after all that, he is enough of an artist to make sure we get our proper dramatic conclusion.

The great artists are never appreciated in their own time... :(

But did he actually do anything to Xykon directly? Beyond almost bring his plan to fruition I mean. Blowing up the mountain isn't a big deal because there's always another mountain to make your lair under.

Starla

2005-03-03, 12:02 PM

Because the Roy Greenhilt I know would not abandon Elan so carelessly, and definately not to bandits. He's a good and kind man, with a heart of gold and loyalty to his friends. Even if Elan is a useless git at times, he still makes people laugh, he can use bardic magic to cure people, he can inspire confidence and all the rest.

So yeah. This guy's not Roy. You can take that to the Bank.

I agree with ShadowDragon8685 that Roy doesn't seem to be acting in character.

rowe

2005-03-03, 12:46 PM

I agree, Roy seems way out of character here. Is he jealous because Elan was able to show the others how to ride a horse? :) I hope we learn why Roy would suddenly abandon him like this...

Peldor

2005-03-03, 12:47 PM

Ah but you forget, Roy hates sidequests. Rescuing Elan is a side-sidequest. The horrors!

Ronfar

2005-03-03, 12:48 PM

Actually, I think this is Roy's unusually high INT kicking in again. He figures that the bandits will get really sick of Elan very soon, and they'll be more than happy to let him go after a while. See http://eserver.org/fiction/the-ransom-of-red-chief.html for a precedent.

Or am I simply reading too much into this?

Andorax

2005-03-03, 12:56 PM

Kaerou

2005-03-03, 12:59 PM

Roy is jelous, in my eyes ^_^

he couldnt take it that Elan is more skilled at one of his class skills than he is.

Drizzt_Fanboy_74

2005-03-03, 01:18 PM

However, Bard is an easier class than fighter. I'm sure that the Giant has a good reason for having Roy not care. Perhaps a run-in with the Linear Guild...

Grey Watcher

2005-03-03, 01:29 PM

Where was it established that Roy is Lawful Good? As far as I know, the only explicitly stated feature of Roy's alignment is that it's non-Evil. (ie he can be affected by Unholy Blight).

ObadiahtheSlim

2005-03-03, 01:57 PM

Well with the lawfull stupid comment, we know he is most likely lawfull. Although that could have been because neutral stupid isn't as funny.

The_Shadow

2005-03-03, 02:30 PM

Okay, it's official. Time to pick up a rock, bash 'roy' over the head, and slay him. When slain, he will revert to his true Doppleganger form, of course.

I couldn't agree more.

Because the Roy Greenhilt I know would not abandon Elan so carelessly, and definately not to bandits. He's a good and kind man, with a heart of gold and loyalty to his friends. Even if Elan is a useless git at times, he still makes people laugh, he can use bardic magic to cure people, he can inspire confidence and all the rest.

So yeah. This guy's not Roy. You can take that to the Bank.

Amen. Roy has been acting "off" for a little while now, actually. I still am amazed that he didn't get SOME kind of weapon until now, and that he acted so useless against the ogres.

Throwing the badger on Belkar, though amusing, also did not seem like him.

And now... Of course we all know that Roy finds Elan intensely annoying and useless. But to leave the guy with bandits is just NOT his style. And the "adventuring with syphilis" remark, while again amusing, also just does not sound like him at all.

Roy's always been my favorite OotSer. He's a good (if long-suffering) leader and a good man. This ain't him. Or if it is, he's under some sort of spell.

The question is, though, when did it happen?

...HOLY CRAP!!! I just figured it out! But I don't dare say a word, dangit! Just... trust me. Rich is a GENIUS!

ShneekeyTheLost

2005-03-03, 02:37 PM

Party splitting up makes the GM smile ;D

Yea, Roy may be off his feed, but I can see his point. Yea, he is basically nothing more than a big pain in the arse. Okay, so his annoyance factor is even greater than mine (no, I'm not envious... really). And let's not forget all the jokes he played (like when Roy was at strength 0, or 'roy has boobies').

I am not going to make any predictions because if I do, then the Giant is sure to not use them. So I am going to abstain from posting any predictions. Also, that way I can say 'You see? I knew that was going to happen but I didn't want to say it because then the Giant wouldn't have done it', even if it was NOTHING like what I was going to predict in the first place. What... why are you staring at me like that? No... I don't think duct tape should go *MHRUPHFL*

Grey Watcher

2005-03-03, 02:42 PM

Now, you see, I don't see Roy's recent behavior as out of character. Abandoning Elan to his fateis, admittedly, the coldest thing he's ever done, and I did figure, that, once everyone else got on his case, he'd go along with it, but I don't see the rest of it as being out of character. WHile they were in the dungeon, they were in nearly constant danger. Roy was trying to remain cool and in control as party leader despite constant threats, both in the form of monsters and in the incompetence of his team. Frankly, I don't see it as at all unreasonable that Roy has simply finally snapped from the strain. These people have nearly gotten him killed more often then they've saved him. He's simply a man who's been driven beyond his breaking point and held there for weeks on end. I don't know about you, but I think it's pretty amazing he hasn't KILLED Elan by now, much less is abandoning him to bandits.

The_Shadow

2005-03-03, 02:55 PM

You're talking about a guy who has devoted his life to taking out the lich that killed his *father's master*, simply because it's a matter of principle. (How can anyone question that Roy is Lawful Good? It's plain as a pikestaff to me.)

And you ask me to believe that he'd leave a friend and ally in the hands of bandits, no matter how annoying that friend and ally was? No. If he'd snapped that badly, he'd be a drooling maniac.

If you think about it, you will see that there is a clear and blindingly obvious reason for his behavior to have changed...

Nikolai_II

2005-03-03, 04:14 PM

(How can anyone question that Roy is Lawful Good? It's plain as a pikestaff to me.)

I'll happily claim that he is Lawful Neutral ;)

Freeman333

2005-03-03, 04:58 PM

Backing it up a little bit, I have to say that I agree with Techonce. Reading too much into it or not, they did say "posession". Now, this doesn't mean that the bandits are working for either Xykon or Nale, though I wouldn't rule either of those out as possibilities. What I DO think it means is that kidnapping Elan was the bandits' plan all along, and for some reason they honestly believe Elan to be a valuable thing to have on hand.

Why? Maybe they thought he was the leader, being out in front of the party as he was. Maybe they noticed his exemplary riding skills and need some training to raise their own skill ranks (some DMs are like that). Maybe they just like syphillis.

Time will tell.

Janitor

2005-03-03, 05:10 PM

I'm going to agree with Nikolai, I think Roy is Lawful Neutral.

Yes, I know, it's not nearly as cool Lawful Good. And they are a team of "good" adventurers, but I think the facts say otherwise.

I cannot recall a time when Roy went out of his way to help anyone. Roy's only reason for being on their original quest was to settle an old vendetta, not for the good of mankind. This recent comic shows that he won't go out of his way to help Elan since he feels his presence would only hinder their current quest. Leaving Elan to possibly die is an evil act but Roy is certain that they would meet their deaths if they did try to rescue him. This would be a rational example of the lesser of two evils, since Roy's mind acts rather logically, it only makes sense.

Lastly, this is probably the least influential piece of information, but I think it does add to my point. When Roy was poisoned and Elan and Belkar wrote all over him, they wrote Lawful Stupid. Because neutral and stupid are both 2 syllable words, I think it would sound better as a pun. Of course, this is subject to interpretation and this is how it appeared to me.

Edalmri

2005-03-03, 05:18 PM

I always thought Lawful Stupid referred to the stereotypical paladin-help-every-annoying-person-with-a-minor-problem type of chracter.

Elethiomel

2005-03-03, 05:41 PM

Ah, but Roy was disabled when Redcloak cast that spell (that didn't affect Belkar) so that would point to a Good alignment.

Edalmri

2005-03-03, 05:44 PM

I'm pretty sure that wasn't Redcloak, seeing as how Belkar immediately killed him. And his cloak was white not red...

evileeyore

2005-03-03, 05:44 PM

Okay Shadow I see where your going.

Spoiler: Rich No Go! Thank You.
My view on your direction: http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1109876475 ;start=0#3

For the record I say your wrong.

I say Roy has just never liked Elan. Elan is almost as useless as a screendoor on a submarine. Roy needs him around like a fish needs a bicycle.

LG doesn't mean save everyone. It means do your best, but sometimes people are out of your hands.

However in this instance I would have to rule he is getting a few ticks on the Nuetral line. And warn his player about potential slippage.

Blue_Beetle

2005-03-03, 07:18 PM

I have to agree with evileeyore

As he is not a Paladin, Roy's LG alignment (assuming) doesn't have the the same restriction that we associate with a Paladin's Code of Conduct.

Roy has been under an increasing number of annoying pressures, No weapon, side quest, Bag of Tricks, etc etc and hes finally snapped. EWveryone is entitled to in now and then, only the long term will show his true colours

Tarlonniel

2005-03-03, 07:59 PM

I also think that Roy went a bit too far. Whatever else adventuring with Elan may be, it is pretty! ;)

SumGuy

2005-03-03, 08:01 PM

The idea of Roy's motive for being in the original Kill Xyclon quest is intrigueing, because Elan states here:

http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=13

that the OOtS mission is killing the Litch in order to make the countryside safe again.

Then again, this is from the perspective of a dim wittend CG Bard with a tendency for dramatizing a situation. Who knows what actually brought them all together?

Well, except Belkar. He was probably just looking for an excuse to kill things.

Grey Watcher

2005-03-03, 09:18 PM

Since Elan is the one casting Summon Plot Exposition, I would guess that the sequence reflects Elan's understanding of the reasons they're adventuring. I firmly stand with the idea that Roy is Lawful Neutral (indeed, I almost put it in my previous post). His quest is about avenging a wrong against his father, and the town sequence suggests Elan and the others weren't his friends, but merely hired help. I don't think I ever would have described Roy as particularly selfless or kind. Intelligent, pragmatic, determined, and driven, sure, but I never really saw any clear evidence to label him as Good.

As far as his being affected by Unholy Blight, here's the SRD's opinion on the subject.

You call up unholy power to smite your enemies. The power takes the form of a cold, cloying miasma of greasy darkness.
Only good and neutral (not evil) creatures are harmed by the spell.
The spell deals 1d8 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 5d8) to a good creature (or 1d6 per caster level, maximum 10d6, to a good outsider) and causes it to be sickened for 1d4 rounds. A successful Will save reduces damage to half and negates the sickened effect. The effects cannot be negated by remove disease or heal, but remove curse is effective.
The spell deals only half damage to creatures who are neither evil nor good, and they are not sickened. Such a creature can reduce the damage in half again (down to one-quarter) with a successful Will save.

So, while Roy should still be able to move (as a Neutral, he'd only take damage, and not get sickened), I guessing that this might be a houseruled variant on the spell, as none of them look sick, only paralyzed.

Kaerou

2005-03-03, 09:35 PM

Roy did risk his life trying to get Elan away from the exoploding fortress... something fishy does seem to be going on.

The_Shadow

2005-03-03, 09:48 PM

Since Elan is the one casting Summon Plot Exposition, I would guess that the sequence reflects Elan's understanding of the reasons they're adventuring.

I agree with this part. That's about it, though. Sorry.

I firmly stand with the idea that Roy is Lawful Neutral (indeed, I almost put it in my previous post).

I still stand by the idea he's Lawful Good. (Not counting any current possible alignment problems.) There's no hard evidence either way, so it comes down to feel - and the read I get on Roy is that he's loyal to the end and conceals a bleeding heart under a gruff exterior.

His quest is about avenging a wrong against his father,

True, but look at the way he talks about it. "I am the personification of all your evil deeds come back to haunt you!" "You killed him and his son in cold blood!"

Plus, his dad plays canasta with archons.

and the town sequence suggests Elan and the others weren't his friends, but merely hired help.

Now I just hugely disagree with this. You can't tell me that Roy doesn't genuinely like and care about Durkon and Vaarsuvius - that his attitude toward them is merely pragmatic. He's too friendly to them.

It's true that he views Belkar as little more than a tool. "I work with the tools I've been given. Sue me." And knows that Haley needs financial incentive.

But you can't tell me that there isn't real friendship going on between him and V, and him and Durkon. (Durkon and V in that same sequence give off a huge vibe, to me anyway, of making plausible excuses to come without admitting they're doing it because Roy is their friend.)

I know LN types have friends too. This doesn't have a direct bearing on the alignment debate. But it does have a direct bearing on Roy's character.

And do note that although Elan is a nuisance, he still keeps letting him come along. Does that jibe with what he said in the most recent strip?

Starbuck_II

2005-03-03, 10:00 PM

I'm going to have to go with the "Roy thinks Elan is useless" theory.

Sure, he theoretically *could* heal people...ever seen him do so?

Ever seen him cast anything other than the minor image?

On the other hand he has been terminally annoying (Banjo), has foiled more of their plans than he's helped (I GOT A 4), blew up the lair of Xykon (I can't imagine how Hailey's forgiven him for that...all that loot that still could have been found and looted).

Besides...as any fighter with an MBA knows, Bard is a useless class anyways.

You have Bard envy don't you? :P
Elan has cast a couple spells Summon Plot Exposition
Link: http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=13

He has cast Minor image. With the Barbarian orc.
Elan never chose a healing spell, remember bards have limited spells known and must choose.

He casted Prestigidation. The Giant told me when I asked what spell he cast to create Banjo one comic topic month.
So that is at least 3 that we know of.

If Elan had a wand of Cure Light wound, he could heal, but he doesn't.

Banjo is cool, yo!

I think he is in a bit of a tiff about how things have gone wrong repeatedly on this mission, and I think he also genuinely believes that the bandit's lair is going to be a death trap for them. Still, I don't think he's really acting out of character.

Belkar and V's reactions don't really surprise me, though. Belkar enjoys the amusing antics, as long as they're aimed at somebody else (and besides, when Roy's not watching, he may just be enough XP for that next level if telling another RP sob story doesn't cut it).

As far as V is concerned...it's a case of a short temper. V blows up at Elan when Elan's being annoying, but really does think he's a decent fellow when he's not *currently* being annoying. I can't remember a time V has had a bad thing to say about Elan that hasn't been within about 4 panels of him being a nuisence.

Yep, and also Roy is probably Lawful Neutral, but leaning toward good. (well maybe not anymore)

Belkar is evil. Totally unaffected by that Unholy aura.

Grey Watcher

2005-03-03, 10:13 PM

I still stand by the idea he's Lawful Good. (Not counting any current possible alignment problems.) There's no hard evidence either way, so it comes down to feel - and the read I get on Roy is that he's loyal to the end and conceals a bleeding heart under a gruff exterior.

Absolutely. Until we see something more concrete, I'm still regarding this as an open question.

True, but look at the way he talks about it. "I am the personification of all your evil deeds come back to haunt you!" "You killed him and his son in cold blood!"

Well, this gets into the idea of what your character sheet says and what you believe you are. But saving that argument for another thread, I think just because he mentioned that evil deeds were invovled in why he's there doesn't make him Good. If someone shoots my boyfriend in cold blood to get his wallet, that was Evil, no question, but it hardly makes my desire for revenge into any kind of crusade.

Plus, his dad plays canasta with archons.

That would make Roy's Dad Good. ;D

Now I just hugely disagree with this. You can't tell me that Roy doesn't genuinely like and care about Durkon and Vaarsuvius - that his attitude toward them is merely pragmatic. He's too friendly to them.

It's true that he views Belkar as little more than a tool. "I work with the tools I've been given. Sue me." And knows that Haley needs financial incentive.

But you can't tell me that there isn't real friendship going on between him and V, and him and Durkon. (Durkon and V in that same sequence give off a huge vibe, to me anyway, of making plausible excuses to come without admitting they're doing it because Roy is their friend.)

I know LN types have friends too. This doesn't have a direct bearing on the alignment debate. But it does have a direct bearing on Roy's character.

And do note that although Elan is a nuisance, he still keeps letting him come along. Does that jibe with what he said in the most recent strip?

I may have phrased it badly. The Order of the Stick does appear to have started as a buisness venture. That's not to say that Roy hasn't formed some close connections with some of his coworkers (Varsuuvius and Durkon), but I still don't see Elan as being counted as a friend. Yes, he did hang back to try to pull him from the explosion, but he is the one responsible for the safety of the group.

Now, all that said, I do think abandoning Elan is an out of character in the sense that it's unusually callous and harsh a decision for him. I DON'T hold with the idea that it must be the result of anything more than weeks of pent up frustration, exhaustion, and anger. Heck, when he walks away from Haley and comes back, it seems to me that he's almost having second thoughts, but then gets frustrated again at Elan's apparent popularity.

bournie

2005-03-04, 12:58 AM

It may just be Rich screwing with our heads, I know I would if I had such a devoted fan base!

Nikolai_II

2005-03-04, 03:11 AM

That would make Roy's Dad Good. ;D

Actually it only makes Roy's Dad's friends good. ;)

(Or even: 'extremely likely to be good')

edit: Since we switched pages on my display I'll mention that this is about the 'playing canasta with archons'-thingy

Shatteredtower

2005-03-04, 05:19 AM

But did he actually do anything to Xykon directly?

Irrelevant. Sometimes the plucky underling must be content with a more modest role, such as serving as a diversion for the sadistic villain while the hero makes his way to the final confrontation!

Beyond almost bring his plan to fruition I mean.

See? He rises above the limits placed upon him by both his role and his comrades! Sheer genius!

Blowing up the mountain isn't a big deal because there's always another mountain to make your lair under.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Up until now, I've been content to continue what should obviously have been very tongue in cheek commentary, but please tell me you're joking about this point. Rome didn't just build itself you know. Magic or no magic, lairs the size of that last one aren't just some weekend barn-raising.

Sure, you can always move into a new place, but that's a time consuming effort as well, even with Xykon's style of negotiation. Even that's got to rely on him waiting for his new body to get out of the shop. Besides, we don't know how many of his resources got buried under that rubble. Libraries? Laboratories? Collectable Elvis memorabilia?

On a more serious note, has anyone else given thought to the fact that destroying the mountain would have likely have killed most, if not all, of the rebelling goblin teens?

Edalmri

2005-03-04, 08:36 AM

It's a fantasy setting, there's always a spare dungeon beneath some mountain somewhere. Well maybe not entirely spare but mostly abandoned at any rate. That takes care of the whole construction thing. His books might be harder to replace, but maybe he didn't have any just treasure.

Shatteredtower

2005-03-04, 09:16 AM

It's a fantasy setting, there's always a spare dungeon beneath some mountain somewhere.

Yeah, but they don't usually have "Vacancy" signs up. ;)

Edalmri

2005-03-04, 09:28 AM

Xykon's new hobgoblin minions can kick out the current occupants. Or he'll make them into zombies and recruit 'em.

Darasen

2005-03-04, 10:03 AM

Weighing in on the Roy alignment issue.
I contend that he is good. Being good does not mean that people do not annoy you. Heck even the apostles did not always get along.

As far as the motivation behind the first adventure and the Orders formation: when we get our books we will know the answers :)

More than 15 all-new bonus strips, including the "lost" original strip #85 and a 8-strip introduction that shows how the party made their way to the Dungeon of Dorukan.

AtomicKitKat

2005-03-04, 10:19 AM

His books might be harder to replace, but maybe he didn't have any just treasure.

This strip begs to differ:
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=71

Besides, do you know how hard DVDs are to acqurie in that setting? ::)

Janitor

2005-03-04, 10:28 AM

I wanna believe that Roy is Lawful Good, but it just doesn't add up.

Perhaps someone could enlighten me. When has Roy ever done a good action?

Also, when Roy was hit with Unholy Blight he was not sickened as most good characters would. (Durkon was sickened, indicated by the swirl above his head.) (And, no, I doubt Roy would have made his will save if he were good, after all he's a fighter.)

Grey Watcher

2005-03-04, 10:44 AM

Actually it only makes Roy's Dad's friends good. ;)

(Or even: 'extremely likely to be good')

edit: Since we switched pages on my display I'll mention that this is about the 'playing canasta with archons'-thingy

True, true. But I was assuming the archons wouldn't want to play with a Neutral.

Edalmri

2005-03-04, 10:57 AM

This strip begs to differ:
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=71

Besides, do you know how hard DVDs are to acqurie in that setting? ::)

Oops, I forgot about that strip. Guess I don't remember as much as I think I do.

The_Shadow

2005-03-04, 04:33 PM

Notice how Roy acted in response to the goblin teens. (When he first thought they were children.) If he's as pragmatic and hard-headed as all that, would he refuse to use children for his ends out of principle?

And there isn't a swirl over Elan's head either - will you argue this proves that HE isn't good? Anybody can make a Will save.

Blackdog

2005-03-04, 04:34 PM

Also, when Roy was hit with Unholy Blight he was not sickened as most good characters would. (Durkon was sickened, indicated by the swirl above his head.) (And, no, I doubt Roy would have made his will save if he were good, after all he's a fighter.)

That's a very good point. Note also that just prior to that, Roy was enthusiastically butchering the helpless, sleeping goblins and failing to be aware of Whitecloak. (Whom Durkon was the first to notice.)

The_Shadow

2005-03-04, 04:37 PM

That's a very good point. Note also that just prior to that, Roy was enthusiastically butchering the helpless, sleeping goblins and failing to be aware of Whitecloak. (Whom Durkon was the first to notice.)

You mean the helpless, sleeping goblins who would have done their level best to kill him and his friends?

As has been said many, many times over the years: Good Does Not Mean Stupid!

Grey Watcher

2005-03-04, 04:56 PM

Basically, I think what we're dancing around here is: "Is Roy Good with Neutral tendencies or Neutral with Good tendencies?" We're splitting the hair mighty thin either way. Hey Rich, give us a new comic to spare our collective sanity!

Rafaik

2005-03-04, 11:35 PM

I just think Roy and Xykon are changing personalities because of Xykon's crown.... just think about all the teamwork that Xykon is showing lately.....

Edalmri

2005-03-04, 11:40 PM

Xykon's sense of teamwork is inversely related to the number if limbs he has at the time, it's got nothin' to do with Roy. Or so Redcloak thinks (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=147),and I agree with him.

Blackdog

2005-03-05, 12:13 AM

You mean the helpless, sleeping goblins who would have done their level best to kill him and his friends?

As has been said many, many times over the years: Good Does Not Mean Stupid!

No one said it did. What was stupid was killing the helpless, sleeping goblins while ignoring the very non-helpless cleric goblin.

Edalmri

2005-03-05, 12:18 AM

C'mon, he's in the Order of the Stick so he can't put any skill points into spot or sense motive. Cut him some slack.

AtomicKitKat

2005-03-05, 05:57 AM

I just think Roy and Xykon are changing personalities because of Xykon's crown.... just think about all the teamwork that Xykon is showing lately.....

Dang it, don't post any plausible theories in this thread! I purposely started one for them so that Rich wouldn't see them here and think "Brilliant idea! I won't use it!" :-/

Drizzt_Fanboy_74

2005-03-05, 12:45 PM

Ahh....but if you read the F.A.Q.'s pagem he specifically states that if an idea you post is used, its coincidence, because the Giant probably didnt even read it!

Janitor

2005-03-05, 02:33 PM

And there isn't a swirl over Elan's head either - will you argue this proves that HE isn't good? Anybody can make a Will save.

Elan probably made his will save, he's a bard and bards have a high will save. I think V would have made the save as well if he is good. And I'm not quite sure whether Haley is good or not. I'm leaning more towards chaotic neutral or true neutral for Haley. To me Haley is not a "steal from the rich give to the poor" kind of rogue. Although she is using the money she has now to bail out her father, I'm sure once he is freed she will continue to be just as greedy.

And you are correct, anyone can make a will save. But I'm assuming stereotypes as Rich often does, or at least makes fun of. Being a cleric, Durkon was affected because stereotypically he's the most goodly of the group, as Belkar was unaffected for his consistent evil tendencies. I'm saying Roy is neutral because it is unlikely, though possible, for a fighter (remember, fighters have a low will save) to make his will save. This is not direct proof that he is neutral, it just increases the odds of him being neutral.

It makes for a good story if all of the characters are good, just warriors fighting to put an end to evil for the good of mankind. However, it makes a better story if a ragtag group of adventurers with different motives and goals are united under a common cause despite their inherent character flaws.

AtomicKitKat

2005-03-05, 03:49 PM

Consulting the NWN manual(since my PHB is in the bedroom and I don't feel like sleeping just yet), a fighter of levels 8 to 10 would have a Will save of about 3. Assuming Roy has 12 Wisdom(he's not exactly as "dumb" as most fighters, plus in light of the mind-flaytentacle-beastie incident, I'd probably place him at 14-16 each in Int/Wis), that puts his Will save at about 4, give or take. If we assume that the goblin is lowish(minimum level to cast Unholy Blight is 7 I think, I'm assuming it's level 4 or so), that gives us a DC of(breaks down and gets the PHB anyway)10+spell level+relevant stat's modifier(Int for Wizards, Wis for Clerics, etc.) Since this is an unusual goblin, we presume it uses better than average stats. The final result is about 10+4+2(assume Wisdom 14), for a DC of 16. Subtracting 4 for Roy's Will Save value, he has to roll a 12 or higher to beat the sickness. That's a 45% chance, or about even odds. It would be even odds, if his Wisdom is 16(see one of the previous threads, I think "Overanalysis") He was still good back then, or at least, possible to be good.

Janitor

2005-03-05, 07:03 PM

Yes, you are right Atomic the odds would be nearly even, assuming Roy's wisdom is high for a fighter and Whitecloak's wisdom is low for a cleric. But, going back to my original statement, it would be still less likely that Roy would have made his will save.

However, I feel that the Goblin cleric would be higher than 7th level. This can be proven by looking at the following comic where Haley states that the Goblin Cleric was worth 1000 xp. If I recall somewhat correctly, this would mean that the cleric was at least 2-3 levels higher than the average of the party. This being said, I think the cleric would have a wisdom score above the bare minimum required for 4th level spells. (Assuming it was an eltie monster with a wisdom of at least 15, plus stat increases and anything the amulet would have given, I think it would have been a Periapt of Wisdom, but that's stretching it :) .)

Also, I will agree that Roy's intelligence is high, but I'm not so sure about his wisdom. After all, he did forget Durkon (memory being a trait of wisdom), a valuable asset to their party. As to the Mind Flayer thing, I always assumed that Roy beat out V because physically his brain is bigger than V's, not on stats alone. Plus there's no hair to get in the way, but that's another debate.

This does not guarantee that Roy is Neutral, but if he is Good, it would be somewhat of a stretch. I would also like to reiterate that whether Roy is Good or Neutral is disputable, but it has always been clearly shown that he does see Elan as anything other than an obstacle. Therefore, if Xylon's crown is indeed affecting him, he would still care just as little about the loss of Elan otherwise.

In conclusion, I feel Roy's actions were entirely in line with his character.

Edit: I just realized that I disobeyed the new spam rules, hopefully this post will not be considered spam.

The_Shadow

2005-03-05, 07:18 PM

I always thought memory was a trait of Int. Most GM's make you roll and Int check to remember something.

Anyway, forgetting Durkon had nothing to do with rolls, and everything to do with humor and setting up the Saddest Comic Ever. It doesn't take a high Int to remember your cleric!

P.S. New spam rules? Did I miss something?

Edalmri

2005-03-05, 07:47 PM

Why does it matter which one's memory? It'd be a spot check to notice something wrong anyway.

Arian

2005-03-05, 08:32 PM

Edit: I just realized that I disobeyed the new spam rules, hopefully this post will not be considered spam.

The new spam rules (which are here (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=banter;action=display;num=1109833079 ;start=)) refer to posts in a message-board-game thread. I don't think responding to someone else's reply to you in a discussion counts as spam. :)

Master_of_Dragons

2005-03-05, 08:36 PM

Edit: I just realized that I disobeyed the new spam rules, hopefully this post will not be considered spam.
No, you didn't. That passage explicitly refers to board-games, and since this thread isn't a game-thread, you didn't disobey anything :).

P.S. New spam rules? Did I miss something?
These spam-rules (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=banter;action=display;num=1109833079 ).

Master of Dragons

Janitor

2005-03-06, 01:20 AM

The_Shadow wrote
I always thought memory was a trait of Int. Most GM's make you roll and Int check to remember something.
This may very well be true. However, I have always associated Wisdom with memory because a certain example is repeated through out the Player's Handbook. This example being the "absentminded professor," a character with a high Intelligence and a low Wisdom score.

It states
A smart character (one with high Intelligence) is curious, knowledgeable, and prone to using big words.
...
A character with high Wisdom may be sensible, serene, "in tune," alert, or centered."
Perhaps it's just the way I'm interpretting it, but to me it always meant that Wisdom was memory. And if that doesn't convince you than how about this.

From the 3.0 PH page 62:
Example Ability Checks... Remembering to lock a door - Wisdom
From the 3.5 PH page 66:
Example Ability Checks... Recognizing a stranger you've seen before - Wisdom

Edalmri wrote
Why does it matter which one's memory? It'd be a spot check to notice something wrong anyway.
And a spot check is based on what ability....

I rest my case, your honor.

Grey Watcher

2005-03-06, 12:51 PM

The_Shadow wrote
This may very well be true. However, I have always associated Wisdom with memory because a certain example is repeated through out the Player's Handbook. This example being the "absentminded professor," a character with a high Intelligence and a low Wisdom score.

I think it actually depends. Long term memory, such as "What is the atomic weight of Uranium?" is probably tied to Intelligence (as is the Knowledge skill). Short toerm memory, like "Where did I put my keys?", is probably tied to Wisdom.

Edalmri

2005-03-06, 01:55 PM

My point was that it doesn't matter which one was memory because enough ranks in spot and there'd be no problem anyway. Not such a good point for this particular party of adventurers, but it still works.

Grey Watcher

2005-03-06, 07:25 PM

Theragar

2005-03-07, 03:37 AM

Can anyone explain what "Pinata" means (last panel of strip #154)?

slomoot

2005-03-07, 03:41 AM

A Pinata is a paper-mache object that is filled with candy. People hit the Pinata until it breaks spilling the candy, and allowing everyone to scramble for it. This is done usually at kids parties.

Funny comic BTW I love that raven...

Knight13

2005-03-07, 04:00 AM

doesn't V take some damage because his/her/its familiar died?

Sebastian

2005-03-07, 05:20 AM

doesn't V take some damage because his/her/its familiar died?
No, he/she/it lose XPs in 3.x. (200 per level, IIRC.)

And I totally agree with Haley, lousy GM >:(

(how much would be the penalty to hit Pin.. ehm Blackwing, anyway?)

Gez

2005-03-07, 06:04 AM

doesn't V take some damage because his/her/its familiar died?

Who said the raven died? Blackwing cawed, not croaked. Seriously, V. hasn't made any reference to him losing XP. As familiars have improved natural armor, and given that the raven is Tiny, flying high, directly overhead, his AC is probably high enough for most of the shots to be misses. And then, with half the hp of his master, he can soak up the damage from the arrows that didn't miss and fly back to safety.

Nikolai_II

2005-03-07, 06:26 AM

No, he/she/it lose XPs in 3.x. (200 per level, IIRC.)

And I totally agree with Haley, lousy GM >:(

(how much would be the penalty to hit Pin.. ehm Blackwing, anyway?)

You get a fortitide save vs 15 to halve XP loss too.

But I agree with Gez - Piñata is probably not dead (unless Rich redraws the strip so that the second to last panel says 'croak' instead of 'caw' :P) - it is more likely that the GM forgat about the familiar too and has planned out some encounters that they would bypass if they got too much information, thusly Blackwingñata must be instructed to stay so far away as to be a lousy scout.

Nikolai_II

2005-03-07, 06:34 AM

I say Roy has just never liked Elan. Elan is almost as useless as a screendoor on a submarine. Roy needs him around like a fish needs a bicycle.

http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=14

I was looking for the 'nude bard' strips to show a workmate (didn't find 'em in the time allotted) when I found this reminder about Roy's wievs about Elan, which might be needed to bring fullness to the comment about Elan being like a VD.

Wanderer

2005-03-07, 08:49 AM

*blinks* I see... It's the old "The DM's being unreasonable" trick. This is what happens when you do something he doesn't want. Sort of like "The blacksmith turns into a black dragon and eats you."

Sundog

2005-03-07, 08:55 AM

Yes, I agree. Roy hasn't ever either liked, agreed with or seen a use for Elan, save for teaching horse riding.

The scary thing is, I kind of agree with Roy. Elan is really the most useless Bard I have ever seen. However, I doubt I would ever just leave a party member in extremis.

Nikolai_II

2005-03-07, 09:54 AM

The scary thing is, I kind of agree with Roy. Elan is really the most useless Bard I have ever seen. However, I doubt I would ever just leave a party member in extremis.

And neither did he at the exploding mountain.. even when Elan had prevented them from earning phat loot and xp.

Hmm..

On the other hand it might be simply psychological - Elan used to be useless, so he was no threat to Roy about the position as leader (which a well-liked 18 Cha Bard could easily usurp) but now he is able to ride and has just made himself even _more_ liked (Making up with V, possibly getting Banjo a godhood etc).
So Roy might be jealous. ::)

Edalmri

2005-03-07, 10:08 AM

Why would Roy be jealous, he has Great Cleave. ::)

GeeVee

2005-03-07, 11:14 AM

*blinks* I see... It's the old "The DM's being unreasonable" trick. This is what happens when you do something he doesn't want. Sort of like "The blacksmith turns into a black dragon and eats you."

Yeah, I agree. It's the single most unrealistic trick in the DM book, with Deus ex Machina on its heels.
That and the joke about the familiar being there the whole time. Seriously, does anyone actually bother to keep track of the familiar?

Edalmri

2005-03-07, 11:37 AM

I only bother during combat when flanking bonuses are to be had. It's just too easy to forget about them anytime else since they're not doing anything helpful.

RBPRX1204

2005-03-07, 12:24 PM

See, this is why I was so torn about getting a familiar. You can't let them go scout without them getting into all kinds of trouble, at least that's what my DM keeps telling me when I suggest letting Fungo the Ferret/weasel go scout. Sure, he does give me a dex bonus, which helps my pitiful AC, but I can hardly wait to get an advanced familiar, maybe an elemental or psuedodragon. Peace... 8)

BarqueCat

2005-03-07, 12:36 PM

My animal friends become part of every day role-playing. I learned early that they are not useful as scouts -- the DM must do what he has to to keep things rolling according to the grand plan. (which we manage to trash anyway). Probably the best use I had for a befriended rat named Squiggy was to give her a pebble that I had cast silence upon, she then stayed within 10' of a spellcaster -- limiting them to somatic only spells <evil chuckle>.

We usually try to keep the horses and any other familiars/companions out of trouble. It has NEVER been an issue that they are "forgotten" about until we need them.

Kaerou

2005-03-07, 12:52 PM

hehehe.. ive had a stupid DM do that before. Even after explaining the 'sounds of bird song, and the numerous birds flying about' while our party was tracking some kidnappers who had captured the local lords son for ransom, all the bandits they were with descided to shoot at the druid (me) flying overhead as a normal local type bird.. (and no, none of them were spellcasters, they had no way to know the bird was a druid)

Funny stuff.. because its so true.. sometimes i'd love to smack some DM's with a clue stick on some descisions. ^-^

Knight13

2005-03-07, 01:00 PM

The scary thing is, I kind of agree with Roy. Elan is really the most useless Bard I have ever seen.
Elan is even more useless than Deekin the kobold bard from Neverwinter Nights. The caster AI in NWN sucks so bad that the only reason to pick Deekin over the other henchman available is that he's funny, worships you, and lavishes you with comments. I've heard that high level bards rule in PnP D&D, but they sure suck in NWN. In my game, Deekin is currently a lvl 17 bard/lvl 10 dragon disciple and he STILL can't kill anything.

ShadowDragon8685

2005-03-07, 02:12 PM

Grey Watcher

2005-03-07, 02:16 PM

Personally, I enjoyed "I haven't named any of my other class features." ;D

Janitor

2005-03-07, 02:32 PM

Elan is even more useless than Deekin the kobold bard from Neverwinter Nights.
Blasphemy!

Granted Deekin's combat prowess is normally not up to par with yours, but his buffs, bard song, high lore skill, and comic relief make him a valuable companion. Just give him a Crossbow of Murder or something and keep him in the back.

Anyways, back on topic. Poor Blackwing. But hopefully the Druids Local 303 will have something to say about that.

Great comic, it cheered me up after being sick all weekend.

Karma

2005-03-07, 02:46 PM

I think the bandits are just metagaming.

"Hey, I just spotted a bird up there!"

"So? We're in a forest, you must see birds every ten seconds."

"Yeah, but this is the first time I've spotted one. Usually they just go by with no in-game description."

"So, what kind of bird is it?"

"Um..." <roll> "...raven."

"Aha. You thinking what I'm thinking?"

"Wizard's familiar?"

"Gotta be."

<twang>
<twang>
<twang>
<twang>
<twang>

Techonce

2005-03-07, 03:02 PM

Personally I think Ray's alignment is Lawful Okay. He's not really good, but not Neutral. Personally I like a new scale of alignments. Good - Okay - Neutral - Naughty - Evil.

ON the other axis you get Lawful - Regular - Neutral - Untidy - Chaotic...

As for familiars... I don't really like using them. PC's get grumpy when you wack them and short of using raise dead, they never get a familiar again. I think it was in a Dragon Magazine that had alternatives to familiars taht were pretty good. I'm okay with letting the wizard have another feat at 1st instead and making Familiar be a feat (requiring the ablity to cast arcane spells.)

Techonce -

Kish

2005-03-07, 03:36 PM

I've never had a problem with Deekan being unable to kill anything.

I've always had problems with him, and the other friendly spellcasters, ALWAYS using AoE spells around friendlies, like, I dunno, ME, or importent NPCs...

Yeah.
You were warned that you're expected to play the basic campaigns on Normal difficulty. :P Don't blame Deekin for expecting his area effect spells to only affect hostile targets.

Nikolai_II

2005-03-07, 03:43 PM

I only bother during combat when flanking bonuses are to be had. It's just too easy to forget about them anytime else since they're not doing anything helpful.

Just too risky unless you have a special familiar.. to give flanking a normal familiar (non-enlarged) must enter the enemys space - provoking AoE.. (although with phat hp it can work out anyway)

@Karma
LOL!! ;D
You speaketh the truth :D

Knight13

2005-03-07, 04:18 PM

Granted Deekin's combat prowess is normally not up to par with yours, but his buffs, bard song, high lore skill, and comic relief make him a valuable companion. Just give him a Crossbow of Murder or something and keep him in the back.
I'm not saying that I don't like Deekin, I do. He's a lot of fun to talk to. I'm just saying that he's almost helpless in combat. All of the attack spells he has suck, yet he insists on casting them at every opportunity. I gave him a Crossbow of Lightning that's practically a minor artifact all by itself and he doesn' even use it until he runs out of spells. :P

eldersphinx

2005-03-07, 05:17 PM

Personally, I enjoyed "I haven't named any of my other class features." ;D
And V has just discovered why this particular class feature is alternately known as "Summon Easily Killable Bundle of Your XP". ;D

Wanderer

2005-03-07, 05:22 PM

I'm not saying that I don't like Deekin, I do. He's a lot of fun to talk to. I'm just saying that he's almost helpless in combat. All of the attack spells he has suck, yet he insists on casting them at every opportunity. I gave him a Crossbow of Lightning that's practically a minor artifact all by itself and he doesn' even use it until he runs out of spells.

I think there may be ways to adjust stuff like that, but I've never tried it. I have noticed that NPC companions who have magic will stand there and cast EVERY spell they have before fighting. This tends to be a problem, since I'll either have killed the enemies long before then, or have BEEN KILLED myself...

yrro

2005-03-07, 06:36 PM

Ravenloft has a neat thing for familiar role-playing opportunities, in that every familiar is inherently chaotic evil, and represents the character's id.

It will do everything in its little power to get you whatever you want without you knowing about it.

Unfortunately, this works a lot better for players who haven't read the DMG. Knowing that he'd be causing trouble behind my back, I'm never want to put up with a familiar now.

Caledonian

2005-03-07, 09:50 PM

Tharivol

2005-03-07, 10:11 PM

Hold on... I do believe this is the first time Our Heroes have explicitly acknowledged that they're in a comic.

Clearly, they understand the game mechanics underlying their world, so they're meta-aware in that sense, but I don't think they've ever broken the fourth wall before.

I'm not at all sure I like the implications.

Nope, look here, (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=22) here, (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=52) here, (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=119) and here. (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=120) Then, of course, there are the mail call comics, and there could very well be some that I've missed.

Grey Watcher

2005-03-07, 10:25 PM

Tharivol

2005-03-07, 10:32 PM

Actually I was/am in the drama club. You're right about the third one I guess as Elan could be talking to himself, but Durkon is clearly addressing the audience in the second one.

Wanderer

2005-03-07, 10:37 PM

*sighs* There have been plenty of examples that they know they're in a comic. Even without the "answering mail" strips, here's one where one of the characters explicitly SAYS it... http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=60

Haley, in the *counts* ninth panel.

Grey Watcher

2005-03-07, 10:41 PM

Actually I was/am in the drama club. You're right about the third one I guess as Elan could be talking to himself, but Durkon is clearly addressing the audience in the second one.

I stand corrected. ;D

Videospirit

2005-03-07, 11:12 PM

Belkar's complaint begs the question, what is a strip club like in a world populated by so many different races?

AtomicKitKat

2005-03-07, 11:52 PM

Actually I was/am in the drama club. You're right about the third one I guess as Elan could be talking to himself, but Durkon is clearly addressing the audience in the second one.

Actually, he could be talking to Elan too. It's a little ambiguous there. The point still stands that they've broken the fourth wall a lot though.

pumpkinetics

2005-03-08, 03:37 AM

Belkar's complaint begs the question, what is a strip club like in a world populated by so many different races?

I can't pg-ratedly answer that one except for:

No naked female dwarves. Please.

AtomicKitKat

2005-03-08, 06:34 AM

I don't mind Deekin that much, but he had this horrible tendency to cast Belakar's Iron Horn EVERY SINGLE ENCOUNTER. This served to piss off most of the party to the point that we eventually just left him dead in Shadows of Undrendtide. The AI is slightly better in Hordes, although he still chooses to sing as soon as the encounter starts...

Meagen

2005-03-08, 08:31 AM

I think the bandits are just metagaming.

I'll go with that.

Nikolai_II

2005-03-08, 10:03 AM

Actually, only the first and last of those examples involve them being aware that they're in a comic. The second only shows them being aware of game mechanics. And as for the third, you obviously didn't hang around with the theatre majors at college, did you? (If you haven't gone to college, then the kids in the drama club.)

The first doesn't necessarily mean comic - he might as well believe he is in a movie ;)

I like Xykons 'cutaway scene' comment here though ;D
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=23

Adghar

2005-03-08, 08:11 PM

About Deekin and other annoying spellcasting tactics: I believe you can change them by clicking on your hench and telling it to change its tactics.

Knight13

2005-03-08, 11:13 PM

the only thing you can really do to stop him from screwing around is to tell him not to cast spells and then he won't cast any helpful buffs.

Dragon_Rider

2005-03-08, 11:32 PM

So ANYWAY isn't it hilarious how V's familiar was shot. That kinda raises the question...Is V's FAMILIAR male or female?

Wanderer

2005-03-08, 11:36 PM

Male. Being a class feature, it is whatever V chooses it to be, and since he said it was male, it's male.

Adghar

2005-03-09, 12:46 AM

the only thing you can really do to stop him from screwing around is to tell him not to cast spells and then he won't cast any helpful buffs.

Helpful buffs? Don't they last long? Why don't you rest, let him cast his buffs, then snuff magic and then walk into battle with him shootin' things up with that crossbow. Voice in head: Because you can't get him to cast buffs before battle, genius. Oh well. Thus the Deekin conundrum is left unsolved.. Wait I know! Rest, fight something weak so he buffs you, then after the battle turn off his magic! Then he'll stop casting annoying spells and you get your buffs!

In a semi-related note, to both OotS and NWN, in NWN I got a Panther familiar that's really good at combat. I'd think of a Raven as silly. Ravens are actually pretty cool, but yeah. Poor blackwing?

Nikolai_II

2005-03-09, 03:06 AM

Male. Being a class feature, it is whatever V chooses it to be, and since he said it was male, it's male.

Undecided - it is a class feature, why should V care to decide it's sex when it didn't even get a name?

V referred to it as male because that is the default level in most languages - "when in doubt, refer to as male".

Arian

2005-03-09, 03:33 AM

Also known as "The masculine embraces the feminine." ;D

mephassovar

2005-03-09, 07:01 AM

Does anyone else think that Haley's enthusiasm for naming V's familiar could be something to do with her goth past?

I mean, 'blackwing', honestly... ;D

Edalmri

2005-03-09, 08:24 AM

Or she could have called it blackwing because it has *gasp* black wings!

Yuki Akuma

2005-03-09, 08:35 AM

Why not Orangebeak? The beak stands out more than the wings, after all...

Edalmri

2005-03-09, 08:38 AM

Hey, what did they nickname Blackbeard after? His nose or his plumage? Haley's following an ancient and revered naming tradition. Kinda like Redcloak or Greenhilt except less equipment oriented.

Knight13

2005-03-09, 09:13 AM

In a semi-related note, to both OotS and NWN, in NWN I got a Panther familiar that's really good at combat. I'd think of a Raven as silly. Ravens are actually pretty cool, but yeah. Poor blackwing?
Yeah, the panther is definitely the best for combat, even gets a sneak attack. If you have a really good combat henchman though, you might want to consider changing your familiar to a pixie so it can disarms traps and open locks.

Aidan305

2005-03-09, 09:25 AM

I've just realised that Blackwing is not, in fact, a raven. Ravens, like most other members of the crow family, have black beaks.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/ravens/images/top_pic1.jpg

So V must have been duped when s/he was getting his/her familiar. Blackbeak, I believe, is a blackbird. Like this one.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/wildfacts/factfiles/picpops/images/blackb08.jpg

Nikolai_II

2005-03-09, 10:12 AM

So V must have been duped when s/he was getting his/her familiar. Blackbeak, I believe, is a blackbird. Like this one.
[/img]

And some people claim that V should have 100% certainty when referring to Blackwiñata as a male, when we here see proof that V doesn't even know with 1% certainty what species of bird she has.. ;D

Edalmri

2005-03-09, 10:30 AM

We're talking about the familiar of an elven wizard, the bird's beak not being a realistic colour isn't a big deal.

Aidan305

2005-03-09, 10:37 AM

Not my fault if V doesn't know what kind of familiar s/he has.

Question: What kind of bonus would a blackbird familiar give I wonder? +4 on perform (Singing) checks maybe?

RawBearNYC

2005-03-09, 11:38 AM

Not my fault if V doesn't know what kind of familiar s/he has.

Question: What kind of bonus would a blackbird familiar give I wonder? +4 on perform (Singing) checks maybe?

+4 and +20 to pie baking.

Edalmri

2005-03-09, 11:48 AM

Wouldn't that be craft (cooking)?

RawBearNYC

2005-03-09, 12:01 PM

Wouldn't that be craft (cooking)?
Nope, just pies.

Baron

2005-03-09, 12:08 PM

I wonder if there would be a corresponding -4 penalty for any Smell checks performed by nearby laundry maids...

Adghar

2005-03-09, 02:22 PM

Yeah, the panther is definitely the best for combat, even gets a sneak attack. If you have a really good combat henchman though, you might want to consider changing your familiar to a pixie so it can disarms traps and open locks.

I don't get henchs (at least I haven't yet)... They steal my valuable EXP! The Panther is the best combat hench and I don't think you share EXP with it.

I restart NWN too frequently.

AtomicKitKat

2005-03-09, 03:38 PM

I don't get henchs (at least I haven't yet)... They steal my valuable EXP! The Panther is the best combat hench and I don't think you share EXP with it.

I restart NWN too frequently.

I love having a double panther myself(Ranger/Wizard or Druid/Wizard, in which case, I sometimes turn into a panther as well, just for the heck of it), but frankly speaking, it's highly unsuitable as a familiar. Familiars aren't really supposed to be combat assistants(especially not with class levels) However, because a CRPG tends to be a lot more combat oriented, it helps to balance it out a little(I'm munching with an Imp in one of my current online campaigns. That poison comes in really handy sometimes) The eyeball is useful for breaking locked chests too.

I wonder if there would be a corresponding -4 penalty for any Smell checks performed by nearby laundry maids...

I think you still need a pocketful of rye before any of the above can occur.

And I think it's "Craft: Baking" or "Profression: Pieman"(Speaking of which, the rhyme "Simple Simon" always sounded dirty to me, I'm not gonna explain why)

Jaqrabbit

2005-03-09, 04:21 PM

Sooo... Anyone else find the commentary on V's disappearing/reappearing familiar ironic in light of the fact that the horses/etc. have disappeared? ::)

Nikolai_II

2005-03-09, 04:30 PM

Sooo... Anyone else find the commentary on V's disappearing/reappearing familiar ironic in light of the fact that the horses/etc. have disappeared? ::)

Hobble their front legs together with short ropes, prevents them from running but allows them to walk around and grace, meaning that they stay reasonably put, and don't give you away when you are sneaking up upon a dangerous bandit camp?

praguepride

2005-03-09, 04:30 PM

Nice on Jaqrabbit, but i'm pretty sure that this is an overarcing sense of irony. As with most D&D games without anal retentive GM's, many misc equipment (carts, horses, familiars) just kinda dissapear when they're not in use. On that note, I'm glad my characters use weapons so much, that would be embarassing... :D It still is funny to see that detail blown into a full fledged joke.

RBPRX1204

2005-03-09, 05:50 PM

Tehe, the book should be arriving at Rich's office today!!! Yeah!

Dragon_Rider

2005-03-09, 10:31 PM

hmmm, Did Rich break the fourth wall on Monday...does the characters referring to a specific strip number break the wall, or not? I think it does...or maybe its just considered metagaming, like failing spot checks...opinions?

AtomicKitKat

2005-03-10, 08:32 AM

Lol.

http://www.giantitp.com/ootsimg404.html

mephassovar

2005-03-10, 08:40 AM

Cool, where did you find that, kitkat?

Enaloindir

2005-03-10, 08:54 AM

Just try to access a future comic by changing the number in the URL.

http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=155 is the url of the current comic...just chage the 155 to 156 :)

Enaloindir

Shatteredtower

2005-03-10, 09:00 AM

Haley knows too much. I'm afraid the time has come to deal with her... instantaneously.

What? If I'd said "permanently," someone would just try to dispel the results.

Edalmri

2005-03-10, 09:04 AM

I'm sure they'd find some kindly old high level cleric who'd give them a quest so s/he could ressurect Haley. Happens all the time, or so I'm told.

ObadiahtheSlim

2005-03-10, 09:16 AM

Haley doesn't know any more than most characters in comics that break the 4th wall. I've read a few where the chararters use those little pharses (Later, Soon afterwards, ect.) to speed up traveling and stuff.

AtomicKitKat

2005-03-10, 09:25 AM

I like how Rich took the little nitpick about familiars speaking/understanding Common and turned it into a brief joke in today's strip. ;D

Invariel

2005-03-10, 09:50 AM

I try to not comment on the names of the individual strips, but I think I have to break my rule for today. Today's comic (155) deserves a fan Naming. And the Name I have chosen (which we can vote on and there'll be cookies) is...

The Speed of Plot.

(You can commence flaming me now.)

Wanderer

2005-03-10, 09:56 AM

Bah. My groups wouldn't DARE do this. Our DM would be rolling for random encounters each passing hour. And, of course, with his random encounters, our group would end up three-quarters dead, out of heals, and almost no spells. Thus, attacking the bandits would be out...

Unless of course they heard the fight and decided to join in and help whatever was trying to slaughter us...

Karma

2005-03-10, 10:26 AM

Vaarsuvius' familiar is at least less irritating than my last raven familiar, Edgar. He was almost as annoying as Belkar - constantly insulting and baiting the dwarf, piping up with really bad advice whenever we tried planning things, and developing a crush on the Firbolg Cleric's (male) giant eagle. Plus, since the Sorcerer was already the least tough character in the party, area-effect spells intended to give the rest of us a moderate roasting tended to fry Edgar into single figures in a single hit. He was slightly less annoying to me than the rest of the party, since I was ropleplaying him, but still... must try and get that campaign going again sometime. :D

Aidan305

2005-03-10, 11:15 AM

I'm not sure which was the funnier line in today's comic: "Later that evening" or "Pop".

RawBearNYC

2005-03-10, 11:38 AM

I'm not sure which was the funnier line in today's comic: "Later that evening" or "Pop".

Um, "Later that evening"...next question?

Paragon_Kobold

2005-03-10, 12:04 PM

I'm not sure which was the funnier line in today's comic: "Later that evening" or "Pop".

"...in case something goes wrong." was also a funny line.

But then, it always is.

Kaerou

2005-03-10, 12:16 PM

I love the "later that evening.."

hehe.. awesome line ^_^

metaofantioch

2005-03-10, 01:32 PM

I like Belkar's comment better. "Who knows what I'll be trying to kill if I have to wait around for hours in one place!"

And by the way, Raw's comment about pies a few pages back made me burst into laughter and then a coughing fit (damn chest cold...). Lol.

RawBearNYC

2005-03-10, 02:37 PM

by the way, Raw's comment about pies a few pages back made me burst into laughter and then a coughing fit (damn chest cold...). Lol.
*bow*

praguepride

2005-03-10, 03:13 PM

I dunno, I like the *pop*. I also like the little trivial event of Durkon healing the familiar, so that V wont' lose anything cuz his familiar died. I've seen characters die cuz their familiar got hit with a fireball... not cool, not cool at all (stupid spirit link)

Techonce

2005-03-10, 04:30 PM

Losing a familiar can't kill you...

Janitor

2005-03-10, 04:42 PM

Back in 3.0 it could kill you.

Anyways, Great comic. "Later that evening" was funny but personally, I like "pop" better.

Edit: In NWN, not 3.0, you could die from the loss of a familiar. Also, a level 1 character with 100xp or less would definately die.

Yuki Akuma

2005-03-10, 04:46 PM

Back in 3.0 it could kill you.

*checks his 3.0 PHB*

...No. No it could not.

Nikolai_II

2005-03-10, 04:48 PM

Back in 3.0 it could kill you.

Anyways, Great comic. "Later that evening" was funny but personally, I like "pop" better.

http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=1

But they are not playing in 3.0 are they ;)

My favorite is actually "I believe he is asking for morphine"

(But why he would want music is beyond me :P http://www.dirtywater.com/a2z/m/morphine/ )

Karma

2005-03-10, 05:48 PM

Losing a familiar can't kill you...
Unless it's a toad, and you're down to -7 hitpoints.

Techonce

2005-03-10, 06:00 PM

Unless it's a toad, and you're down to -7 hitpoints.

True.... And that's kind of like rubbing salt in the wounds. Of course the DM in me sees the combat going like this:

DM: The glowing marble flashes into a large cloud of flame and you feel the heat burn your skin. Your familiar (which was sitting on your shoulder) sends an empathic scream. <Roll for reflex>

PC: Missed, and darn. Kermit missed too.

DM: You both take 45 points of fire damage.

PC: My familiar is now an appitizer for the halfling and I'm bleeding out at -7. Three rounds for the cleric to get to me.

DM: Didn't your toad give you a con bonus?

PC: D'oh! <Thud>

Andorax

2005-03-10, 06:17 PM

Am I the only one who remembers that Familiars get Improved Evasion?

Assuming you're both at full health, your familiar should never get deader than you do as the result of an area-effect spell...and given identical saves or fails, should always be about as well or poorly off as you are.

Sorry...nitpick. I was just wondering about how many AoE Familiar deaths might have been prevented by remembering this little detail.

Janitor

2005-03-10, 07:26 PM

Back in 3.0 it could kill you.

*checks his 3.0 PHB*

...No. No it could not.

Yes, you are correct, I am confusing my 3.0 rules with my NWN rules.

Jaqrabbit

2005-03-10, 09:40 PM

The whole page was good, and "later that evening" was classic, but the morphine line was definitely my favorite.

Knight13

2005-03-10, 11:10 PM

hmmm, Did Rich break the fourth wall on Monday...does the characters referring to a specific strip number break the wall, or not?
You can't really break the wall in a comic strip. At least, not without severe consequences.

http://www.qwantz.com/20040323.html
(link is work safe)

roguebfl

2005-03-11, 05:41 AM

Nikolai_II

2005-03-11, 05:52 AM

Am I the only one who remembers that Familiars get Improved Evasion?

Assuming you're both at full health, your familiar should never get deader than you do as the result of an area-effect spell...and given identical saves or fails, should always be about as well or poorly off as you are.

On the other hand the familiar can fail and the wiz/sorc succeed on the save - that would put a serious crimp in the familiars style..

But about the Familiar Pocket thingy.. I really need to start remembering to bring the wizards familiar into play, at least when the players are hit by area effects..

praguepride

2005-03-11, 07:25 AM

Whoops, my bad. That was definitly 2nd ed that losing the familiar caused the wiz to make like a system's shock roll or just die from the pain. Moldy oldie here remembering the good ole days of TSR :D

Sundog

2005-03-11, 11:22 AM

Hmm, so far Vaarsuvius and now Haley have demonstrated remarkable understanding of the "realities" of their existence. Elan is too dumb, Belkar too belligerent and Durkon too straightforward to pull such tricks; I wonder if Roy can manage one?

Rodrick_the_Red

2005-03-11, 11:58 AM

Uh..excuse me,

But Elan has also demonstrated a remarkable understanding of the "realities" of his existence.

When he has his Vin Diesel moment in strip 119.

Sebastian

2005-03-11, 12:03 PM

*checks his 3.0 PHB*

...No. No it could not.

In 2nd edition I think it could.

IIRC (it was a long time ago) a familiar would give you extra HP, but if he got killed you'd lost permanently the double of that HPs.
Of course, being 2nd edition probably there were more than one version of rules for familiar.

infinidimincorp

2005-03-11, 12:47 PM

The bandit meta-gaming will be resolved, I'm sure.

<i>Meanwhile in the bandit camp</i>
Elan: Hey, that raven looks just like our wizards familiar.

Darasen

2005-03-11, 01:06 PM

I liked the morphine line.

In !st edition your familiars death could kill you as well.

I do not remeber the if Basic (the original blue book) even had familiars or not.

Gez

2005-03-11, 01:09 PM

Undecided - it is a class feature, why should V care to decide it's sex when it didn't even get a name?

V referred to it as male because that is the default level in most languages - "when in doubt, refer to as male".

Not true. English has a default gender for pets (and, curiously enough, toddlers), and it's the asexued "it".

I've just realised that Blackwing is not, in fact, a raven. Ravens, like most other members of the crow family, have black beaks.

So V must have been duped when s/he was getting his/her familiar. Blackbeak, I believe, is a blackbird.

I think that this explains why V.'s familiar doesn't speak. V. is just deluding himself. It could be fun if a druid shows up and explain this to V.

Techonce

2005-03-11, 02:24 PM

The bandit meta-gaming will be resolved, I'm sure.

<i>Meanwhile in the bandit camp</i>
Elan: Hey, that raven looks just like our wizards familiar.

I think you may have gotten it with that. I can difinitly see Elan saying that.

On a side note... Once the party was trapped in a dungeon and food supplies were running low. There was some talk of eating the wizards cat familiar. I decided to have them find food before it got ugly.

Edalmri

2005-03-11, 02:32 PM

Elan wasn't present in strip 3 so he wouldn't know about the familiar being a raven. He might not even know V has a familiar.

Techonce

2005-03-11, 03:37 PM

Unless he made his Bardic knowledge roll... BUt yeah, he may not know.

Bes familiar I have ever seen is a hedgehog. OKay attack, deals poison damage, and gives the wizard a +1 natural armor bonus...

Supposed to be for tiny owners, but a gnome wiz has one in the party.

roguebfl

2005-03-11, 08:18 PM

That reminded me of the write up I did so some could play a Were-hedgehog

hedghog (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=3936296&postcount=1)

Dire Hedgehog (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=3948702&postcount=14)

sktarq

2005-03-12, 11:53 PM

Does anyone have any ideas an when we might see that belt that Elan swiped or what foolishness Belkar will get up to with his ring? With Belkar he if anything seems to be jumping less.

bedbugsareyummy

2005-03-13, 01:44 PM

If you look, in the strip where the bandits attacked, he is jumping above one of the bandits to rain stabbity death from above.

Adghar

2005-03-14, 12:06 AM

First post to strip 156!

Seriously, how can Elan be that dense? Oh well, I guess it's for the best. Seducing the bandit leader - Hello Order of the Stick Bandit Army!

Grey Watcher

2005-03-14, 12:15 AM

Well, Elan is officially a "playa." I wonder exactly where in these proceedings Haley will be wandering in.... ;D

xolik

2005-03-14, 01:06 AM

Wanderer

2005-03-14, 01:13 AM

Come now, seducing the female bandit leader is a time-honored tradition! ;D

Knight13

2005-03-14, 01:35 AM

How did Elan get those flowers and chocolate in a bandit camp? And what spell did he cast to remove those ropes?

Wanderer

2005-03-14, 01:50 AM

I'm still working on that flowers and chocolates bit, but the spell was probably just Animate Rope. A first level bard spell.

archon_huskie

2005-03-14, 01:52 AM

The ropes: that would be a Dex check to free himself.

As for the flowers and chocolates, that would be by the magic of plot.

Wanderer

2005-03-14, 01:54 AM

The ropes: that would be a Dex check to free himself.

Note the little glowy blue thing around his hand. That's what Rich does to show magic being used.

SumGuy

2005-03-14, 01:55 AM

Aawwww dude... Haley is gonna freakin flip when she sees this.

Then again, given the OOtS crew's Spot proficiency, Elan might just get away with this without Haley ever being the wiser.

Grey Watcher

2005-03-14, 02:14 AM

Here's my theory and it's a bit of a longshot. I propose that the bandit leader is the succubus from the Linear Guild. The reason why I figure this is because if she only kidnaps men she finds attractive, and she's obviously attracted to Nale, why not capture his brother and have both?

Of course I'm probably waaaay off on this. But it's an amusing idea.

Where does it say she finds Nale attractive? She was sent by her superiors in whatever Plane she comes from to keep an eye on Nale, and the best way to do that is seduction. She could find humans puny and repulsive. One never knows. Besides, Nale sent the OotS on this sidequest to get them out of his hair, it seems odd that he'd turn around and send his best lieutenant to harass them, when they've still got the task of rebuilding the Linear Guild.

Siobhan

2005-03-14, 02:50 AM

Note comics 56 and 142
56 Sabine: :-*

Grey Watcher

2005-03-14, 03:05 AM

Note comics 56 and 142
56 Sabine: :-*

Meh, it could be an act. It's not likely, but it could be. I'm too tired to think straight. (Fortunately, I'm gay.)

roguebfl

2005-03-14, 03:30 AM

I'm still working on that flowers and chocolates bit, but the spell was probably just Animate Rope. A first level bard spell.

I was about to Say Aniate rope, But with the Still Spell feat (as it is V,S)

Sebastian

2005-03-14, 03:44 AM

First post to strip 156!

Seriously, how can Elan be that dense? Oh well, I guess it's for the best. Seducing the bandit leader - Hello Order of the Stick Bandit Army!

Are you kidding, right? My respect for him grow up at least two sizes, not only he was able to escape all by himself but it is nice to see that he have his priorities straight. ;D

And he and Haley never make it official and with his Sense Motive you can't expetc for Elan to have caught what Haley feel for him.

Adghar

2005-03-14, 04:16 AM

Thank you for breaking my brain with "Are you kidding, right".

The density comment was, he's stuck in a camp of bandits that do evil or at least bad things as you can tell by the comments, and he has the chance to escape, but instead escapes, buys romantic gifts for the leader, and marches back in, clearly escaped from the ropes. And with the Animate Rope, wouldn't that rather be a Silent Spell, since his hands looked pretty free and he said absolutely nothing?

Nikolai_II

2005-03-14, 04:23 AM

The density comment was, he's stuck in a camp of bandits that do evil or at least bad things as you can tell by the comments, and he has the chance to escape, but instead escapes, buys romantic gifts for the leader, and marches back in, clearly escaped from the ropes.

It's worse than that.. bandits are as bandits are, but these ones seem to be along the 'Robin Hood' theme (i.e. honorable and reasonable) but the new leader, Samantha the Fox?( :P), has made them into common thieves, and is also from the description a mean woman.

That aside I know few (if any) players who wouldn't try what Elan is going for, as long as they considered themselves 'available' (and some who would anyhow)

Gez

2005-03-14, 04:52 AM

And with the Animate Rope, wouldn't that rather be a Silent Spell, since his hands looked pretty free and he said absolutely nothing?

Bard spells always have a vocal component and they can not use the Silent Spell feat... Maybe Elan really took a level of wizard? ;D

roguebfl

2005-03-14, 06:15 AM

Bard spells always have a vocal component and they can not use the Silent Spell feat... Maybe Elan really took a level of wizard? ;D

Nah, he has just masted the "under your breath" casting options 8) IE you still say the works just hopefully not loud enough to be heard 8)

few ranks in Preform (Hand-puppets)

Dr_Nno

2005-03-14, 07:33 AM

[theory of mine]
Please welcome Samantha, the long lost sister of Haley! She stockpiles money just like her sister to free their father (while ignoring what Haley does), and finds Elan attractive. Fraternal jealousy ensues.
[/theory of mine]

And I would be very sorry if it's really the case, because it would be the first time ever that I guess the plot of anything in advance, and Rich would modify it. :P

Edit: as Nikolai_II guessed, Samantha's nickname is "The Fox", because she's as redhead as her sister, but with shorter hair (wild guess in this case).

Nikolai_II

2005-03-14, 08:00 AM

[theory of mine]
And I would be very sorry if it's really the case, because it would be the first time ever that I guess the plot of anything in advance, and Rich would modify it. :P

Way down in this forum there is a thread titled "Sealed Predictions(Not for Rich to read)" which was recently created to at least have a minor chance to look smart by predicting right.
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1109876475

Now personally I think Rich might be peeking in there too (given enough time etc), but the premise of that thread is at least that it is supposedly 'Rich-free' and as such a good environment for predictions you want should have a chance to come true..