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Sonofaspectre
2008-01-29, 03:02 AM
I put this in the Character Builder Thread ... but I have no hope for it getting any help there.

I am building a new character for a game on Monday nights. I have already rolled stats and decided the race, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what class I should take, nor feats, or where I should go with him.

As of now, I have a Hengeyokai (Sparrow) who is total character level 2. We are using the errata so that the race is LA+0 instead of +1. Rolled stats are as follows, in no particular order: 15, 15, 15, 13, 13, 11

I have pretty much every book from 3.0 and 3.5, and most are useable. I just cannot figure out where to go with this character.

If it helps, the party currently consists of:
Dwarf Ranger 2
Gnome Monk 2
Kenku Ninja 2
Hengeyokai [need you Playgrounders help]

Any and ALL ideas are wanted. Just need some idea of where to go with him.

Aerogoat
2008-01-29, 03:17 AM
Rogue's probably the most versatile of any of the classes. Since you don't know what you want to do with your character, it gets my vote.

If, after playing for a while, you decide want to play a spellcaster, just buy some scrolls and wands. If you later decide that you want to play a Fighter, just multiclass or take levels in Nightsong Enforcer. And if you want to play the Trapmonkey, you're already set to do so.

Tempest Fennac
2008-01-29, 03:19 AM
You could really use a healer, so I'd suggest moving 1 point from the 11 to one of your 15s before using it to get a +3 Wis modifier before building your character as a Cleric (putting to 10 into Dex or Int), or building a Shugenja (putting the 16 onto Cha) while making sure you focus on water-type spells. If you really wanted to have some blasting capabilities, specialising in earth or wind would allow you to do that at the expence of some utility/protective spells. Could you swap some of the numbers around so that they are all even numbers? If you decide to play as a Divine caster, you would really need to use all of your skill points from levels to raise your primary spellcasting stat due to 16 not being that high, so changing your stats to 16, 14, 14, 14, 14 and 10 would be a good idea due to making the most of the modifiers without really changing the numbers which were rolled.

Edit: Don't Ninjas already fill the skillmonkey/trapfinding role? I'll need to check their class skills.

Behold_the_Void
2008-01-29, 03:22 AM
You could really use a healer, so I'd suggest moving 1 point from the 11 to one of your 15s before using it to get a +3 Wis modifier before building your character as a Cleric (putting to 10 into Dex or Int), or building a Shugenja (putting the 16 onto Cha) while making sure you focus on water-type spells. If you really wanted to have some blasting capabilities, specialising in earth or wind would allow you to do that at the expence of some utility/protective spells. Could you swap some of the numbers around so that they are all even numbers? If you decide to play as a Divine caster, you would really need to use all of your skill points from levels to raise your primary spellcasting stat due to 16 not being that high, so changing your stats to 16, 14, 14, 14, 14 and 10 would be a good idea due to making the most of the modifiers without really changing the numbers which were rolled.

Edit: Don't Ninjas already fill the skillmonkey/trapfinding role? I'll need to check their class skills.

I think Hengeyokai get a wisdom penalty, so Shugenja's probably a better bet if it's a Cha caster, which I think it is.

Sonofaspectre
2008-01-29, 03:25 AM
They do get a wisdom penalty. WIS -2, DEX +2 for being Sparrow. Forgot to mention that, sorry.

Tempest Fennac
2008-01-29, 03:27 AM
Okay. I'd go with Shugenja in that case (or possibly Favoured Soul, but Shugenjas can potentially do a lot more). Favoured Sould are better in combat, though (incidenally, do FSs use Wis for bonus spells? If you decided to use one, you could ask your DM if you could use Cha instead for this purpose due to how using Wis doesn't make much sense in for FSs). Also, will your DM let you optimise your dice rolls in the way that I suggested?

Talic
2008-01-29, 03:46 AM
First, Gnome Monk tells me that this is an unoptimized group... I'd play as such. Go Bard 2, for Cha-based healing and some nifty boost abilities.

Tempest Fennac
2008-01-29, 03:50 AM
I would have thought that a weak party would increase the need for Sonofaspectre to have a strong character (incidentally, are the other 2 members that weak, and would a Gnome Monk be that bad? The Str penalty would be a bit of a problem, but the Con boost could be useful).

Talic
2008-01-29, 03:54 AM
I would have thought that a weak party would increase the need for Sonofaspectre to have a strong character (incidentally, are the other 2 members that weak, and would a Gnome Monk be that bad? The Str penalty would be a bit of a problem, but the Con boost could be useful).

Size penalty weakens natural attacks (small fists). Movement penalty detracts from Monk enhanced movement. The race works directly against the class. The Con +2 isn't worth it. That's the main reason it's not optimized.

Oh, and most DM's build the adventure to the party. A weaker party gets smaller challenges.

Sonofaspectre
2008-01-29, 03:55 AM
Kenku Ninja is pretty specialized, especially since I think he will be going martial stalker. To put it shortly, Dwarf ranger's favored enemy is giant. He is longbow support/damage, though. And yes, Gnome Monk is the weakest, and very unoptimized ... so much so I cringed when I found out she was playing. But this DM is pretty ... laissez faire, for lack of a better term. While the group is pretty unbalanced, I don't think it will be a big deal. It is more of a classic fantasy book type game, where there is very little magic and healing. But I could be wrong.

I was looking at Psionics for a punch up in the power. Would this be a worthwhile idea? If not, I love bards, as you can probably tell from my sig, and wouldn't mind picking up that burden.

Tempest Fennac
2008-01-29, 05:45 AM
How good are Psionics for healing? I don't know enough to comment about whether that sort of class could be used in that role effectively. Also, I'd avoid Bards in this case due to how they gain spells at a much slower rate then primary casters, and they miss out on a lot of spells which could be useful (eg: Remove Blindness/Deafness and Remove Disease) as well as Heal. I don't think you eally need another skill monkey, and I don't think the party is big enough for the Bardic support abilities to be really useful.

Talic
2008-01-29, 06:18 AM
How good are Psionics for healing? I don't know enough to comment about whether that sort of class could be used in that role effectively. Also, I'd avoid Bards in this case due to how they gain spells at a much slower rate then primary casters, and they miss out on a lot of spells which could be useful (eg: Remove Blindness/Deafness and Remove Disease) as well as Heal. I don't think you eally need another skill monkey, and I don't think the party is big enough for the Bardic support abilities to be really useful.

True. Psionics are effective, if inefficient, healers. They can cure most ailments, and can somewhat transfer HP loss to themselves, and then heal it. Starting at level 3-5, that is.

Tempest Fennac
2008-01-29, 06:23 AM
That may be a problem. Do you think the party will be able to survive without a healer until that particular ability can be gained, Sonofaspectre?

Sonofaspectre
2008-01-29, 07:34 AM
Probably so. The DM is new to it, and is just looking for a fun game to tell his story, not trying to screw the party over every turn. So i should be fine, especially if I pick up a wand of cure moderate.

But really, anything else that might be fun/good?

Tempest Fennac
2008-01-29, 07:45 AM
I don't know is the details are online, but I heard there was a Divine caster/Warlock class which can hea allies using Eldrich blast. I'll try and find some information about it (the multi-classing probably won't matter that much in this case).

kamikasei
2008-01-29, 08:23 AM
I don't know is the details are online, but I heard there was a Divine caster/Warlock class which can hea allies using Eldrich blast. I'll try and find some information about it (the multi-classing probably won't matter that much in this case).

Eldritch Disciple, from Complete Mage.

playswithfire
2008-01-29, 10:06 AM
Also, I'd avoid Bards in this case due to how they gain spells at a much slower rate then primary casters, and they miss out on a lot of spells which could be useful (eg: Remove Blindness/Deafness and Remove Disease) as well as Heal. I don't think you eally need another skill monkey, and I don't think the party is big enough for the Bardic support abilities to be really useful.
Saw this in the character builder thread, but wanted to respond here as I don't actually have a build for you.

I was actually going to suggest a bard; or more specifically, a Bard/Crusader with Song of the White Raven, possibly going into Jade Phoenix Mage.
Rough idea is Bard 4/Crusader 1/JPM 10/X 5
You'd have maneuvers, decent BAB, inspire courage and (i'd have to double check ToB when I get home) only give up 3 caster levels by level 15 if you go all the way through JPM. So you'd have options.

Just throwing this out there since you liked characters with different options, the party seemed to be lacking a face as well as a caster and the Crusader level will get you CHA to will saves so the wisdom penalty won't hurt. Also, having a sparrow become a phoenix seemed fun thematically.

You could do it with any other CHA based caster, I just picked bard because I like song of the white raven.

Sonofaspectre
2008-01-31, 03:55 AM
I was actually going to suggest a bard; or more specifically, a Bard/Crusader with Song of the White Raven, possibly going into Jade Phoenix Mage.
Rough idea is Bard 4/Crusader 1/JPM 10/X 5
You'd have maneuvers, decent BAB, inspire courage and (i'd have to double check ToB when I get home) only give up 3 caster levels by level 15 if you go all the way through JPM. So you'd have options.


I really like this idea. I think I'll probably go Warblade, to sync up those INT abilities, but maybe not. More specifically, I like the Jade Phoenix Mage.

Question is, what is the build to it? ((EDIT: Note, there is already a swordsage, and they rely on Wisdom, which I'm dumping, as it is against the class, and really seems like it would be fun, have this rash fighter/gish.))
Bard 4/Crusader 1
Bard 4/Warblade 1
Martial Sorcerer 4/Crusader 1
Martial Sorcerer 4/Warblade 1
Wizard 4 ... You guys get the drift.

I know at level 6 I am entering Jade Phoenix Mage. Just need the road there.

Sonofaspectre
2008-01-31, 07:39 AM
Oh! Great Idea. What is the build went:

Warblade 1/Factotum 1-5/Jade Phoenix Mage 1-10/Factotum 6+

Huh?

Devils_Advocate
2008-01-31, 07:20 PM
So i should be fine, especially if I pick up a wand of cure moderate.
Wands of cure light wounds are most cost-effective. Cure moderate is better for in-combat healing, but it's usually better to try to take down the bad guys ASAP than heal in combat.

If you choose Bard, you'll be able to contribute a bit of magic without overshadowing the other characters, and sneak around with everybody else besides. A party where everyone has Hide and Move Silently as class skills is pretty rare. It could well allow you to stealthily bypass many encounters.