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isitolian
2008-01-29, 05:32 PM
I've made a "prestige" class designed for low level characters who want to be very, very, very specialized. By this, I mean VERY specialized. I gave it a d3 hit die, and over 10 levels Base Attack Bonus goes up by 2. I call it the Skillmaster. For the record, a level 10 Expert / level 10 Skillmaster with an intelligence of 18 would have a result of 79 on every craft check (assuming they have maximum ranks in it and it is one of the three chosen Skillmaster skills), and be able to make 1251 longswords, two daggers, and a shuriken in one week if he or she had 30 assistants and materials. I'd like some help determining if it's well enough balanced- and there is no way I'm increasing its power. Ideally used for NPCs, a first level Skillmaster could have started with two levels of Expert, representing a master smith in a city- the one who will finish a three-day job in an afternoon, helping the PCs to get out on their next adventure sooner. I think that Belkar could take a few levels in this, and with them stop failing Jump or Spot checks. So... is it good?




Skillmaster

Prestige Class



The Skillmaster... the specialization of a rogue, the abilities of an expert, and the combat ability of a kobold. Skillmasters are the best in the universe at doing what they do. They devote all of their time to studying skills, and can be better than anyone else of the same level at it. Skill Masters can choose crafting skills and be the one who makes two hundred longswords in only a month, or they can choose combat skills an be an unequaled horseman.
Skillmasters on the battlefield can infallably Concentrate as a Wizard, Tumble through spiked pits to grab a chalice in the dragon's lair as a Rogue, and can make a Heal check without fail as a Druid. The class is very unlikely to fail any skill checks.
NPC Skillmasters are always master craftsmen, though the class is usually reserved for guild leaders and assistants to royalty.
Intelligence is very important to Skillmasters. It must be at least 12 to gain full benefits of their Devoted Learner abilitiy, and gives 3 rather than 1 skill point per level.

Hit Die: 1d3

Requirements

To qualify to become a Skilmaster, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

Any Skill (5 Ranks)

Any Other Skill (5 Ranks)

Any Other Other Skill (5 Ranks)

Feats: Skill Focus(Skill), Skill Focus(Other Skill), Skill Focus(Other Other Skill)

Special: Must have rolled at leat one natural "20" on any skill check for Skill, Other Skill, and Other Other Skill.


Class Skills

The Skillmaster's class skills are all skills which the character has at least 5 ranks and the Skill Focus feat in. Consult the Player's Handbook, chapter 4 for skill descriptions. All other skills the character knows are considered cross-class skills, and all skills which they do not know are prohibited. If the character takes a level in another class and learns the skill, it is no longer considered prohibited for future levels of Skillmaster.

Skill Points at Each Level: 3 + (3 * Int modifier)

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Skillmaster prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Skillmaster is proficient with the dagger.


Three skills, all of which must be considered Skillmaster class skills for the character and are selected once when the character takes their first level of Skillmaster, are affected by the following abilities. No other skills may be affected.

Devoted Learner: Skillmasters, rather than studying new techniques and spells for combat, spend all of their time improving their skills. Starting at first level, a Skillmaster may spend more than his ordinary limit of skill points on one skill. For every level of Skillmaster, two skill points are added to the maximum total per skill (of the three skills selected) rather than one. At fifth level and every Skillmaster level thereafer, this bonus improves so that 2 + their intelligence modifier (if greater) can be added to the skill, rather than one point or two.

Skill Speed: Starting at third level, a Skillmaster may use any of function of his skills which would normally take a full day in one hour- and skill attempts which would take two days, take two hours, and so forth. This does not affect the length of time required for any other skills or other functions of the same skills. For example, a third level Skillmaster with craft(weaponsmithing) as a class skill could attempt to craft a longsword in only seven hours rather than one week. They would finish still earlier if their check was sufficiently high. This ability improves to 1/2 hour/day at level 5 and 1 hour/week at level 8. At level 6, the bonus to time can apply to any checks taking more than 24 minutes to cast. At level 2, a standard-action skill may be taken as a free action. At level 9, a full-action skill may be taken as a free action. In both cases, only one such free action may be taken per round.
Skill Assistance: This ability starts at fourth level. The Skillmaster may apply their check result to others using on the same skill for the same purpose at the same time and place. They may use this ability on a number of persons up to three times their Skillmaster level.

Skill Perfection: At level 10, the Skillmaster is the best there is at what they do. They can take 20 on any skill check of their selected skills.

Class Abilities:
Level Fort Ref Will Base Attack Bonus Ability
1 0 1 0 0 Devoted Learner(2)
2 0 1 1 0 Skill Speed(Standard Action -> Free Action)
3 1 2 1 0 Skill Speed(1 hour/1 day)
4 1 2 2 0 Skill Assistance
5 2 3 2 1 Devoted Learner(2+INT bonus), Skill Speed(1/2 hour/1 day)
6 2 3 3 1 Skill Speed(1 minute/24 minutes, etc.)
7 3 4 3 1
8 3 4 4 1 Skill Speed(1 hour/1 week)
9 4 5 4 1 Skill Speed(Full Action -> Free Action)
10 5 5 5 2 Skill Perfection

Vadin
2008-01-29, 05:40 PM
A few things before any critiquing can begin:
1) The lowest HD in D&D is the d4, and that's really too low for any character without powerful long-ranged attacks as it is.
2) There are three BAB progressions: Good (1/1), Average (3/4), and poor (1/2). BAB progressions that fall outside of this tend to be frowned upon.
3) Can we get some formatting for this class, please?
4) How many adventurers really need to make things all day? And with his terrible HD and abysmal BAB and no compensating combat abilities, I'd say this guy, no matter his skill check, is terribly underpowered. What can he bring to the table? Is he really worth the risk to the party? No matter what class he took before, after a few levels of this he will certainly be doing either a bunch of cowering or a bunch of dieing.

isitolian
2008-01-29, 05:43 PM
Again, the idea is that everything other than skill abilities is completely pathetic. In a few campagins I've played (and run), there are only small villages and the characters have to make their own weapons. This cuts in to game time as the DM has to roll for random events every day inside the city. And the King getting ready for war has to get 20,000 greatswords/plate armor combiniations for his knights in less than a month SOMEWHERE. Besides this, the main idea of this class is that the character can buy extra ranks in select skills. A fighter could take three levels of this class in lieu of increasing his combat abilities and after that be able to swim, climb, and jump without much error while wearing full plate. FULL PLATE. I would also like to remind you that the best use of this class is for DMs making NPCs who can do things better than everyone else. However, thanks for the notes. I need to fix my Battlechef class's D7 hit die now.

Ascension
2008-01-29, 05:51 PM
Frankly that sounds more like a problem with your campaign setting than something that you need to create an over-over-over-over-specialized class to deal with. Just add more towns, make more stuff available in shops, and don't spend all your time as adventurers lingering in tiny villages while you craft items.

And even in epic fantasy a king is highly unlikely to arm 20,000 men with greatswords and plate armor. The nobles should be able to provide their own weaponry and horses and the conscripts shouldn't need anything more than a spear and studded leather, if that.

EDIT: And asking a fighter to take levels in this is like asking a wizard to lose caster levels. Ain't no way the tank is taking any class that has less than a d10 hit die.

EDIT EDIT: And what self-respecting fighter would have skill focus in anything anyway? This isn't the sort of class one dips into.

Voyager_I
2008-01-29, 05:54 PM
So wait, is there a reason any PC would take this besides terribly breaking a few skills? It looks like it will either suck horribly and ruin the game for one person, or be ridiculously overpowered and ruin the game for everybody. Also, every soldier in the world didn't wear Full Plate and wield a Greatsword, and there sure as hades wasn't anybody making 20,000 suits of Plate in a month. So, not only does this break game balance, it absolutely shatters verisimilitude.

TheLogman
2008-01-29, 08:54 PM
Firstly, a Level 2 Character can enter this "Prestige Class". You just need 1 level in Marshal, and another class with a decent Skill Set, like Rogue or Marshal and to be a human.

Secondly, Diplomacy, UMD, USD. You are a better Psion and a better Psion than the Psions and Magic-users themselves, and you can diplomacy your way out of anything you feel like.

If I had a 2 Marshal/4 Skillmaster, I could do the following at level 6: Turn an entire army that was trying to kill me into my good friends, willing to sacrifice themselves to save me, or provide help to me in 10 minutes, and that's on a 4 or higher. If I get a 14 or higher on my roll, I can do it as a full round action. AT LEVEL 6.

4 (Roll)
+17 (Ranks)
+10 (Charisma of 18, Marshal Charisma Aura, Cloak of Charisma +2 (4k Gp))
+10 (Ring of Diplomacy, 10k GP)
+3 (Skill Focus)
+2 (I have 5 or more Ranks in Sense Motive)
+2 (I have 5 or more Ranks in Knowledge (Nobility)
+2 (I have 5 or more Ranks in Bluff)

I have 2k Gp left over

Here's the thing, I can also use Epic-Level Scrolls and Psionic Devices even on a roll of 2 or higher, and any Wand of any kind I want without trying. At level 6.

2 (Roll)
+17 (Ranks)
+8 (Charisma of 18, Marshal Charisma Aura)
+3 (Skill Focus)

Of course, I am not an expert at cheese. I am sure that the expert cheesers over here can do it at an even lower level.

Nebo_
2008-01-29, 09:19 PM
Firstly, a Level 2 Character can enter this "Prestige Class". You just need 1 level in Marshal, and another class with a decent Skill Set, like Rogue or Marshal and to be a human.

Secondly, Diplomacy, UMD, USD. You are a better Psion and a better Psion than the Psions and Magic-users themselves, and you can diplomacy your way out of anything you feel like.

If I had a 2 Marshal/4 Skillmaster, I could do the following at level 6: Turn an entire army that was trying to kill me into my good friends, willing to sacrifice themselves to save me, or provide help to me in 10 minutes, and that's on a 4 or higher. If I get a 14 or higher on my roll, I can do it as a full round action. AT LEVEL 6.

4 (Roll)
+17 (Ranks)
+10 (Charisma of 18, Marshal Charisma Aura, Cloak of Charisma +2 (4k Gp))
+10 (Ring of Diplomacy, 10k GP)
+3 (Skill Focus)
+2 (I have 5 or more Ranks in Sense Motive)
+2 (I have 5 or more Ranks in Knowledge (Nobility)
+2 (I have 5 or more Ranks in Bluff)

I have 2k Gp left over

Here's the thing, I can also use Epic-Level Scrolls and Psionic Devices even on a roll of 2 or higher, and any Wand of any kind I want without trying. At level 6.

2 (Roll)
+17 (Ranks)
+8 (Charisma of 18, Marshal Charisma Aura)
+3 (Skill Focus)

Of course, I am not an expert at cheese. I am sure that the expert cheesers over here can do it at an even lower level.

Play an old half-elf and take a level of Binder or take the bind vestige feat for Naberius. This lets you use the Silver Tongue to take 10 on diplomacy and bluff and rush the check at no penalty. Then take a level of warlock for beguiling influence for another +6 unnamed bonus social skills.

Jaerc
2008-01-29, 10:28 PM
Most of my comments have already been brought up. It's pretty clear that this class in not viable, but if you are still interested in other character options that allow extreme specialization, let me known.

I have a feat chains that sets out with the same goal, and (I believe) achieves it with less fuss.

Fizban
2008-01-30, 12:35 AM
However, there is a skill based prestige class out there: the Exemplar, from Complete Adventurer. It gains extra competence bonuses with choice skills, the ability to take 10 under stress with choice skills, and the ability to boost the skill check of allies by sacrificing his own ability while doing so. It makes much more sense for the idea of cranking out thousands of suits of full plate, if you must do that. It's more useful for taking 10 on skill checks you don't want to worry about, and makes a decent dip for that ability by itself.

Neek
2008-01-30, 01:21 AM
And even in epic fantasy a king is highly unlikely to arm 20,000 men with greatswords and plate armor. The nobles should be able to provide their own weaponry and horses and the conscripts shouldn't need anything more than a spear and studded leather, if that.

As it would turn out, the 20,000 men all wielding longswords in the king's army, these men would not receive them as compense from the king for serving in the king's war: They would provide it themselves. It was a major accomplishment, up until recent times, for anyone to supply their soldiers with any furnishings, whether implements of destruction or even backpacks (this is why the Roman Emperor/General, Maximinus Thrax, was a legend among his soldiers: He gave each one a pair of boots.)

If the king could furnish his 20,000 soldiers, all conscripted from across the nation from promises of pay to simply fulfilling feudal obligations, then his war is already won: he could simply buy the other nation, if not its mercenaries and conscripts with promises of FREE EQUIPMENT.

And Ascension, you are right: an army of 20,000 wouldn't even just be of swordsmen. It'd be of multiple different outfits, some gathered from obligation, others bought from mercenaries.

isitolian
2008-01-30, 08:05 AM
all right guys, thanks for design guidance

Naga-Darmag
2008-02-09, 03:28 PM
Not to kick a dead then zombiefied only to immediately, once again killed horse but if I interpret the Devoted Learner ability correctly and using the rules for skills on epic levels, a int 18, level12 character could make a long sword in 1 minute with the help of Skill Speed.

Rigon
2008-02-09, 03:49 PM
the PCs are chosen. they are the heroes. heroes are born from ability+opportunity. if you remove the opportunity then there'll be no heroes.

so uhm. the NPCs in small towns can be many things.

a retired old (black)smith for example. coming from the army. retired because of the loss of a leg (there were no clerics around). the party cleric could gain his favor by regenerating the severed limb. you would need to pay money just to make him stop from forging more and more stuff.

an artisan costume maker (ex-costume maker of a theater) with his wife. they eloped from the big city as the wife was noble and the husband was not. turn out that those costume armors are actually working. no wonder the theater won so many special effect awards.

a senile old librarian maybe? "Oh you want a fairy tale? here's one. really good book. i only saw the movie tough." And so it turns out that it's actually a journal of a missing wizard... with some spells and insight on mind affecting spells. the last pages write about a grand battle between the wizard and an illithid. the outcome isn't documented... hmm.