Who is better a blasting?

[Frosty]

If someone wishes to play a blaster, which would be the blastiest?

Sorcerer, Warmage, or Shadowcraft Mage?

[Solo]

1 vote for the Killer Gnome build.

[Frosty]

Just to clarify for those who are new: Killer Gnome build refers to Shadowcraft mage, typically entered through a Specialist Wizard or a Beguiler.

[Dark Tira]

1 vote for the Killer Gnome build.

Second that.

[Solo]

"Weak minded fools! If you simply had the clarity of mind to see through his feeble illusionary fire, you'll see that - BY THE NINE PLANES OF BAATOR, IT BURNS! IT BURNS EVEN WORSE THAN THE REAL THING! THE THOUSAND TORMENTS OF THE INFINITE LAYERS OF THE ABYSS WOULD BE A MERCIFUL RELIEF COMPARED TO THIS!"

[Gralamin]

Psion, Shadowcraft Mage, Sorcerer, Warmage
From Best to Worst.

[Newtkeeper]

Blasting is *so* last century. Real power comes through battlefield control- read Batman.

If you really want a blaster, a sorcerer can keep going for longer, and his weak spell selection won't be as much of a hindrance as it would be in other roles. A Warmage (complete arcane) is literally made for this role.

[Frosty]

A Warmage (complete arcane) is literally made for this role.

Yet no one has voted for a Wamage yet...

[brian c]

Yet no one has voted for a Wamage yet...

Far too often, WotC has a clear intention in doing something but fails entirely.

[Frosty]

Far too often, WotC has a clear intention in doing something but fails entirely.

I think they succeeds pretty well with the Beguiler.

[AslanCross]

Psion, Shadowcraft Mage, Sorcerer, Warmage
From Best to Worst.

Agreed. The Psion rocks at blasting.

[Kyeudo]

Psions still lose when it comes to total points of damage dealt when stacked up against a Wizard of equivalent level. A Psion can just pump the damage faster.

[AmberVael]

A wizard can apply metamagic far more easily than a psion can apply metapsionics, and meta-feats can quickly increase damage if done correctly. Psions tend to win out at lower levels, but as level gets higher, the wizard gets better (gee, really? This sounds familiar)

[Voyager_I]

The Warmage: Just in case you were starting to take Evocation seriously...

[Nebo_]

Psions still lose when it comes to total points of damage dealt when stacked up against a Wizard of equivalent level. A Psion can just pump the damage faster.

Speed is what matters. By your logic, a warlock is the best blaster.

[Chronos]

Actually, the best blaster is probably a Warblade, maybe with some Barbarian and Fighter dipping. Why muck about with bat guano when a sharp piece of steel will do the job better?

[Yami]

I beleive that a sorcerer/warlock, built to enter the dual progression PrC, allows for a blaster that never tires. Which, in my opinion, is what you want.

1 vote sorcerer, despite the awesomeness that is gnome.

[Curmudgeon]

My vote: a Cleric, with some Incense of Meditation: Maximize every single spell prepared without changing the spell level. I guess if you're going to swap in spontaneous Cure/Inflict spells for other prepared spells, those would get maximum benefit, too.

[Dark Tira]

Actually, the best blaster is probably a Warblade, maybe with some Barbarian and Fighter dipping. Why muck about with bat guano when a sharp piece of steel will do the job better?

I don't think most people would consider that a "Blaster." You might be able to convince someone that it's a Gish though.

[Toliudar]

To add a different note to this discussion:

If you're talking about optimizing damage production, there may be better options. But I have a RL player who loved to blast, terrible at book-keeping, and seemed to select feats based on the roll of a die. Warmage was pretty good for him, because it gave him a LOT of spells to pick from, he couldn't make build decisions that made himself much worse, and he usually had something that could be used in just about any combat.

Sure, it's a glass cannon. But it's a class that can be picked up and played without much otimization.

[Skjaldbakka]

I'd go with WuJen. IIRC, they can 3X empower blasting spells, with the right build. (free empower from class feature, empower spell, and sudden empower all stack - IIRC)

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Warlock. Go nova every battle, then sit up and do it again. Think about it, when faced with 10,000 zombies, every other caster will lose. Warlocks are the Energizer Bunny, they never stop.

[Dark Tira]

Warlock. Go nova every battle, then sit up and do it again. Think about it, when faced with 10,000 zombies, every other caster will lose. Warlocks are the Energizer Bunny, they never stop.
That's probably a bad example. Technically a Locate City Bomb will clear them out much faster than a warlock could. Still you do have a point that most other Blasters have limited resources though it would take a rather strenuous scenario to make that relevant.

[Frosty]

Can Warlocks, by definition, even go Nova?

[Reel On, Love]

At the lowest levels, Warmages. Warmage Edge can make a huge difference (compare 1d4+1 vs. 1d4+5, or 2d4+4 repeatedly vs. 2d4 repeatedly) at low levels).

At the high ones, Sorcerers--because they can put out so many more spells per round. Betweeen (familiar-shared) Arcane Spellsurge, Greater Arcane Fusion, and Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability, a Sorcerer can throw out four or five spells per round.

[Dark Tira]

Can Warlocks, by definition, even go Nova? Well since they can use Maximize SLA, Sudden Metamagic, and various UMD tricks I don't see why not, but as to being an energizer bunny with Novas then no. Nova by definition requires expending a large amount of limited resources in a short amount of time.

[CASTLEMIKE]

Probably a SAD Charisma Sorcerer-Educated Wilder Variant Cerebrancer +4 other PRC levels to taste if you can use the Precocious Apprentice feat trick to qualify for Cerebrancer which might not be an option in all games because the sorcerer spell casting would allow more spellcasting options in game but if Blasting is the only thing desired Warmage would provide a few more benefits (Armored mage (light), 6 base hit points and the Warmage Edge special (Obtain familiar is always an option).

It would depend on the game if it is doable SAD Intelligence with a Beguiler using the same trick (Of course an Arcane Disciple Fire domain could work or Summoning (Fire creature)) and an Erudite using the Spell to Power variant with the Over Channel feat.

Start off with a Sorcerer - 1 taking the Precocious Apprentice feat trick and Scorching Ray to fuel the Fiery Burst Reserve feat for low level blasting and to facilitate entry into the Cerebrancer PRC.

Taking the Hidden Talent feat or being from one of the Hidden Houses might be a good ideal for a human PC although a Kobold could undertake the various rituals.

Educated Wilder Variant -3, Sorcerer +1

AI-1 (In a leveling up game before Cerebrancer for Chaotic Surge PRC special benefits),

Cerebrancer - 10,

4 levels to taste of ACM or MotAO (Nice with Rings of Theurgy) or other PRC to personal taste.

Spellcasting as a Sorcerer - 19 (20 as a Kobold using the rituals) with L14 Psionics enhanced by the Wild Surge special +1 or +2 along with the Chaotic Surge special 25% for the following: Unaffected power effect, Halved power effect ,150% normal effect or 200% normal effect.

[The_Snark]

Warlocks with the right equipment and feats can sort of go nova. Hellfire warlocks can nova very effectively but also very dangerously.

On warmages- I'd agree with Tol. They're not great at low to mid-levels, since they suffer from the same problem a lot of spellcasters have (endurance) without the ability to end an encounter with a single spell. At high levels, they actually have some fairly decent spells, though, and can start playing around with metamagic to help their damage. They're not as good as other casters, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

The best... hard to say. Shadowcraft mages and their 110% thing are good, of course. Incanatrix is another good class for a blaster wizard (or any wizard, actually). Psions can put out a lot of damage, but you might find yourself running low on power points fairly fast if you aren't careful.

Lastly, sorcerors with Practiced Metamagic and the spells mentioned above can be good. All depends what you want, really.

[Chronos]

Think about it, when faced with 10,000 zombies, every other caster will lose.Not true: The druid can blow them all away with a single spell. Actually, if number of targets affected is a factor (which is pretty much the only thing that separates what people think of as a "blaster" from a sword-swinger), then druid wins hands-down (see the recent "army killers" thread for details).

[Kurald Galain]

Although not a blaster per se, the Duskblade is very good at nova striking, and can do ludicrous amounts of damage at low level (e.g. sword hit + 3d6 for blade of blood + shocking grasp damage + self strength-boost).

Perhaps there's some feat that allows you to do this with a bow rather than a sword?

[Starbuck_II]

I'd go with WuJen. IIRC, they can 3X empower blasting spells, with the right build. (free empower from class feature, empower spell, and sudden empower all stack - IIRC)

Free empower?
They only get still, silent, extend, enlarge... I wish it was empower (I play a Wu Jen).
They do get +2 caster to one element (metal and wood included).

[Reinboom]

1. Locate City Bomb
2. for(a=0;a<count(othersilliness);a++){ echo othersilliness[a]; }
3. Warlock (+Hellfire Warlock) with a someone to heal the con damage.
4. Sorcerer

[EphU437]

What is teh killer gnome build?

thanks,
Eph

[Keld Denar]

What is teh killer gnome build?

thanks,
Eph

Behold, he who is cheesy! Enter the Killer Gnome!

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=655556

Having seen a 15th level ScM in action, I must say....damn. A Sonorous Hummed Black Blade of Disaster followed by a 2nd Black Blade of Disaster each doing like, 66d6 damage each is sick, wrong, broken, and abusive. Basically getting 9th level spells as a 15th level caster is abusive, but combine that with a number of other effects.....

a 120% real Earth Elemental Monolith is a scary sight to behold, especially if you Heroics Supreme Cleave on him. With a ScMs automatic Extend and uber CL bump, he lasts for about 60 rounds, or 6 FULL MINUTES. Same combo with Sonorous Hum as above with SEM.

[Crimson Avenger]

Hunhhh.....I thought Ur=Priest was the only way to get 9th level spells at 15th level. I guess I was wrong.

[Crimson Avenger]

Behold, he who is cheesy! Enter the Killer Gnome!

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=655556

Having seen a 15th level ScM in action, I must say....damn. A Sonorous Hummed Black Blade of Disaster followed by a 2nd Black Blade of Disaster each doing like, 66d6 damage each is sick, wrong, broken, and abusive. Basically getting 9th level spells as a 15th level caster is abusive, but combine that with a number of other effects.....

a 120% real Earth Elemental Monolith is a scary sight to behold, especially if you Heroics Supreme Cleave on him. With a ScMs automatic Extend and uber CL bump, he lasts for about 60 rounds, or 6 FULL MINUTES. Same combo with Sonorous Hum as above with SEM.


Wow. Now that would put the fear of god (that's me!) into my 13th level geshtalt party. Buwhahahaha!

[Keld Denar]

Yeah....the DCs on his 9th level spells at level 15 are about 32, 8th are 30, and 7th are 29 because of the way Earth Spell works. Most things you fight at 15th level are gonna have 1 save you can target that can't possibly make a DC30 except on a nat 20. Nasty nasty very bad things.

The most abusive thing I can imagine is if a ScM could get Holy Word on his spell list. Since its evocation, he can replicate it with a hightened Minor Image. The CL for it would be in the low 30s at level 15. Anything with 25HD or less loses, no save.

[Aerogoat]

The most abusive thing I can imagine is if a ScM could get Holy Word on his spell list.Shadow Evocation only works if the spell is on the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list, which is pretty difficult to change.

[Draco Ignifer]

He can.

As mentioned in the guide, Arcane Disciple from the Luck domain gets you Miracle on your spell list, and Miracle is evocation. Miracle can duplicate any cleric spell of 8th level or lower, or any other spell of 7th level or lower. Holy Word is level 7.

[Frosty]

I wonder if a deity would get pissed if you spammed Miracle :smallbiggrin:

[RukiTanuki]

Ah, but you'd be spamming a shadow illusion spell, which just happens to imitate Miracle, that is 100% (or more) real even if people disbelieve it. No deity intervention required. :D

[Chronos]

You could also take Arcane Disciple for the Good domain, instead, and cut out the middleman. I imagine that even with the early access to high-level spells, you'd get access to a 7th-level spell before a 9th-level one.

[kemmotar]

Actually wouldn't a hellfire warlock be betteer? I mean undead don't take con damage(duh they have no con modifier)....

Also, i think a high charisma wielder would do miracles...at 20th level with 30 charisma you'd have about 300 power points and PP cost isn't that ig anyway...now blast away:smallbiggrin:

[Fax Celestis]

Dragonfire Adepts make the best blasters, in my opinion. I breathe fire, every turn, doing terrific damage. Later on, I can make my breath weapon disintegrate you.

AND I get invocations? Yes please.

Close second, I'd say a Totemist, actually. Totemists get a bunch of neat binds that give them really interesting things like breath weapons, acid spit, et al.

...then again, I like Totemists for everything, so I could be biased.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Master Blaster rules ba'tah town.

That's code for go HellGnome.

[Rachel Lorelei]

Dragonfire Adepts make the best blasters, in my opinion. I breathe fire, every turn, doing terrific damage. Later on, I can make my breath weapon disintegrate you.

Uh, fax? Right up until they get Fivefold Breath of Tiamat, DFA damage is puny. DFAs are for controllin', not for damagin'.

[Fax Celestis]

Uh, fax? Right up until they get Fivefold Breath of Tiamat, DFA damage is puny. DFAs are for controllin', not for damagin'.

If you compare on a round-by-round basis, yes. But remember that a DFA can area-blast all day long, should the need arise.

[Aerogoat]

He can He can't.


A Shadowcraft Mage can use the altered spell to mimic any sorcerer or wizard conjuration (summoning), conjuration (Creation) or evocation spell...

Altering your own "spells known" list does not impact the Sorc/Wiz spell list.

[CASTLEMIKE]

He can't.

Altering your own "spells known" list does not impact the Sorc/Wiz spell list.

It is a little gray and depends on the game and what the build class is. Consider a sorcerer or wizard taking the Arcane Disciple feat that should qualify in most games since the PC casts the domain spells as arcane spells and so are now they are on his or her spell list.

[AslanCross]

Actually wouldn't a hellfire warlock be betteer? I mean undead don't take con damage(duh they have no con modifier)....

Also, i think a high charisma wielder would do miracles...at 20th level with 30 charisma you'd have about 300 power points and PP cost isn't that ig anyway...now blast away:smallbiggrin:

Hellfire Warlock explicitly states that anything immune to CON damage or lacking a CON score can't use the Hellfire blast.

[Idea Man]

I've noticed the ultimate magus makes a pretty impressive blaster. Quick, cheap metamagic added at whim. Take your chain lightning, maximize, repeat. No, it's not the greatest blaster, but it's got potential.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I've noticed the ultimate magus makes a pretty impressive blaster. Quick, cheap metamagic added at whim. Take your chain lightning, maximize, repeat. No, it's not the greatest blaster, but it's got potential.Not to mention spell slots.

[Aquillion]

Why has nobody said Artificer? No matter how good a wizard or any other class is at metamagic, metamagic spell trigger still wins.

[Drascin]

I tend to be biased towards Psion, plus Energist if available. Mainly due to the fact that people who want to go blaster tend to not optimize much, and it's almost impossible to screw up a psion blaster build, given the fact that they can use three blasts for pretty much anything (yay free energy Substitution with perks!) and still have plenty of utility powers.

Oh, and a couple levels of Maverick Voidshaper (again, if available) have been proven useful for one of my players. Bumping the range of every power in your list one step (from Close to Medium, from Medium to Long, or from Long to Long x2) for free is always nice so that you can stay the hell away of meleers while you blast, and DimDoor double distance too in case of needing to escape. Invest in Spot, for actually being able to see who you're shooting, tho :smallwink:

[Leon]

A Skigg thats been let loose in the powder magazine

[Burley]

Okay. I'm gonna toss the Warlock up for the win. (I doubt he'd win, but whatever.) I assume that by "blaster", we mean focusing from 1st to 20th level on blasting?
I'm playing a 8th level warlock who was built up for item creation (I just changed my mind and am trying to push him back towards blasting). I'm in a party with a full druid and a rogue1/sorcerer?/PrCofsomesort who is pretty focused on straight-up damage.
If I had build my warlock for blasting: Eldritch glaive and Eldritch Doom for close range death. Then there is Eldritch Spear for sniping abilities. If you are doing a mid-range, you've got Eldritch Cone and Eldritch Line(IIRC-It turns your ray into a line so it hits everything in those 12 squares. 9d6 damage...Yes, Please). Penetrating blast if you happen to go against something with Spell Resistance. Plus! They have Damage reduction to keep them falling, Fell Flight to keep them away, and Fast healing to keep them up.
Plus, by 20th level, you'd EASILY have at least 20 ranks in UMD giving you a 30 UMD (Take 10) on a standard action for any wand/scroll/staff you want, which includes the "Locate City Bomb", which could be created at less cost thanks to their Imbue Item (is that the right name?) at 12th level and Craft Wand, you'll be throwing flaming/crackling/thundering/freezing/fleshburning craps all over the place.

Oh, also: IT NEVER ENDS. A Specialist Wizard gets 49 spells a day, 0-9. I'll admit: Some of those spells would put the warlock to complete shame. But, the Wizard could only use a handful of them in a day. The Warlock's 9d6 may not be THE most damaging thing in a round, but at averaging 31.5 per roll, range of 9-54, it's pretty hefty, untyped damage that can be used...14400 times a day, and even more if you're getting off your extra attacks from Eldritch Glaive, or Quicken SPA.

I didn't even start on feats...mainly cause I can't think of any other than Extra Invocation...but, still.

[Frosty]

31.5 per round at level 20 is *really* underwhelming...

[mabriss lethe]

Well, for a lowish level blaster (starting at 3rd), a warmage with access to reserve feats like Acidic splatter and Fiery Burst can blast on par with a warlock and still reserve the right to nova if things go sour.

Of course, sorcerors and wizards can pull off the same trick, reserve the right to nova, and cast utility spells....

[sikyon]

Okay. I'm gonna toss the Warlock up for the win. (I doubt he'd win, but whatever.) I assume that by "blaster", we mean focusing from 1st to 20th level on blasting?

Warlocks are weak because of the 4 encounters per day thingy. If you had to fight a neverending horde 24 hours a day a warlock would be your best bet, but in a realistic situation a wizard can just expend all those spells he needs to, and then gate away to rest. Also, in combat it's not how much fuel is in your tank, it's how fast you can spend it. Look at it this way: If you can only pump out stuff half as fast but have twice as much, you also need to have twice as many hitpoints. While you are shooting at your enemy your enemy is shooting back at you, so if it takes you longer to kill him then he's going to have a better chance of killing you.

Quality > Quantity

[CASTLEMIKE]

If you want 24 hour blasting as a sorcerer or wizard just take a single reserve feat to personal taste and fuel it with a high level spell.

Sorcerer, Wilder Cerebrancer is nice against other Blasters with Damp Power.

[Aerogoat]

Is there any way to get an Erudite a familiar? If so, I would put that immediately behind Blastificer at the top of the list.

Of the choices though, I vote for Shadowcraft Mage.

[Fax Celestis]

Is there any way to get an Erudite a familiar? If so, I would put that immediately behind Blastificer at the top of the list.

Of the choices though, I vote for Shadowcraft Mage.

...take the Psicrystal Affinity feat, like any other psionic character.

[Aerogoat]

...take the Psicrystal Affinity feat, like any other psionic character.It doesn't work with the Imbue Familiar spell/power.

...Actually upon rereading the spell, it wouldn't work at all with the "Spells to Power" variant anyway. I guess Sorcerer/Wizard still win, then.

[CASTLEMIKE]

Is there any way to get an Erudite a familiar? If so, I would put that immediately behind Blastificer at the top of the list.

Of the choices though, I vote for Shadowcraft Mage.

The best way is to use the Precocious Apprentice feat at first level with a wizard PC to qualify for Cerebrancer and only forfeit a single level of psionics with some spellcasting. (This won't work in all games).

Obtain Familiar feat might work depending on how the "Transparency" rules work in your game.