Antimagic Field Question

[Ascension]

Alright, antimagic fields turn magic items into nonmagic items, right? How would that interact with extradimensional storage? I ask because my current DM advised everyone to purchase Heward's Handy Haversacks, and now I'm scared to death that we'll run into an antimagic field somewhere and my poor rogue will suddenly have A.) his backpack explode into seventy or so pounds of loose items or B.) all of his items get trapped in a pocket dimension somewhere.

[Karuma]

"An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it."

You just can't reach into the bag while inside a field.

[sonofzeal]

"An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it."

You just can't reach into the bag while inside a field.
Or rather, you can reach into it, but it'll just feel like a normal bag, which actually leads to some nice tricks - anything you put into the bad while in the AMF won't be accessible outside of an AMF, because then the extradimensional space takes precedence. This can be very useful if you're trying to smuggle something smallish and expect to get searched.

[Chronos]

Yeah, your items will stay in whatever pseudo-planar or extra-dimensional space or whatever it is; you just won't have access to them while you're in an AMF. Once you leave the field, everything should be back to normal.

At least, those are the default rules. If you want to be sure, the smart thing is to just ask your DM. He'll probably take the same interpretation, though: Only a total jerk would actively advise his players to get Haversacks, and then use them to poof all of their items.

The real reason he's advising you to get them is almost certainly that he doesn't feel like enforcing the encumbrance rules, or worrying about how you get the loot out of the dungeon. It's good advice.

[Yami]

Or rather, you can reach into it, but it'll just feel like a normal bag, which actually leads to some nice tricks - anything you put into the bad while in the AMF won't be accessible outside of an AMF, because then the extradimensional space takes precedence. This can be very useful if you're trying to smuggle something smallish and expect to get searched.

That is an awesome trick! If only we had kept one beholder alive as a pet. Or, you know, needed to do some hardcore smuggling.

Nevertheless, sweetness and thanks.

[Prometheus]

Some DMs could rule (by RAW) that the extra dimensional space is the space that goes beyond the regular bag space instead of the space that replaces the extra bag stuff. So in that case, thing placed in the bag in an AMF would join the rest when it was out of the field, and a half full bag going into an AMF would have half of a regular bag space full of random items and the other half full of empty space.

Of course, for most DMs it comes less down to the interpretation and more down to whether a DM punishes players for loopholes or rewards them for creativity.

[Theli]

I recall a ruling that states that a bag of holding is actually held tightly shut when in an AMF...not that it can be opened to a non-magical container...

I can't remember where I heard it though.

[Solo]

If I may jack this thread....


If you try to cast a spell, say, Protection from Evil, while standing in the middle of an anti-magic field, is the spell prevented from being cast or just there but suppressed?

[Theli]

What Rules of the Game says on the topic. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050503a)

YMMV.

[tyckspoon]

If I may jack this thread....


If you try to cast a spell, say, Protection from Evil, while standing in the middle of an anti-magic field, is the spell prevented from being cast or just there but suppressed?

There but suppressed. It'll come back into effect if you step outside the field. If it were prevented from being cast, the field would be dispelling it, not simply suppressing.

[Chronos]

There but suppressed. It'll come back into effect if you step outside the field. If it were prevented from being cast, the field would be dispelling it, not simply suppressing.Except you can't cast spells in the first place while you're within an antimagic field, can you? If you cast the spell before you enter the field, it'll still be there after you leave (assuming the duration hasn't expired), but I don't think that's what Solo is asking about.

[Theli]

Except you can't cast spells in the first place while you're within an antimagic field, can you? If you cast the spell before you enter the field, it'll still be there after you leave (assuming the duration hasn't expired), but I don't think that's what Solo is asking about.

There is apparently nothing which prevents you from casting spells from inside a typical antimagic field. It is only a question of spell suppression.

[Toliudar]

Fascinating. So you can cast spells inside an AMF - they just won't do anything while inside the AMF.

This begs the question: what happens when a caster inside an AMF casts a spell whose effect is entirely outside of the AMF? The article Theli linked to specifically says that spells targeted into an AMF probably fail, but does that failure work both ways?

[tyckspoon]

Fascinating. So you can cast spells inside an AMF - they just won't do anything while inside the AMF.

This begs the question: what happens when a caster inside an AMF casts a spell whose effect is entirely outside of the AMF? The article Theli linked to specifically says that spells targeted into an AMF probably fail, but does that failure work both ways?

Depends on whether or not you think AMFs block line of effect. The linked article says they do; the Rules Compendium, IIRC, says pretty clearly that they don't. If they don't block line of effect, then you can cast from inside an AMF to the outside without problems, or from outside one side of the AMF to a target on the other side. It's just the section that is actually covered by the AMF where nothing happens.

If they do block line of effect, then they're effectively walls (big circular walls, but walls nonetheless) and you can't cast across their boundaries.

[Theli]

Yeah, the rules compendium is pretty explicit on what an amf can and cannot do. There is simply no mention of the field interfering with spellcasting attempted inside it except that:

A) Any spell effect except wall of force, prismatic wall, or prismatic sphere is suspended.
B) If the point of origin for the spell is inside the fields (as as the origin of a burst, spread, or the like) then the spell is entirely suppressed. Otherwise, it's only suppressed in the overlapping areas.
C) Instantaneous spells cast on targets/areas within the field are effectively canceled since the duration instantaneously expires while being suspended.
D) Mordekainen's disjunction has a 1% per caster level chance of destroying it, but if it fails then it affects no items within the field.

I can't find a single trace of the field interfering with the spellcaster itself...so it seems that you don't even need a way to shape the field to use it effectively as a personal defense...as long as you don't need any buffs or anything else magical while inside it.

Edit: In case anyone was wondering. The exact statement made about AMFs and line of effect in the RC is:

Spells don't function in an anti-magic area, but an antimagic area doesn't block line of effect.

[Cuddly]

So what happens when the Archmage sculpts the AMF around himself? Shenanigans? Or do spells that target him within the sphere affect him (such as an eyebite)? Would a ray cast at him stop one it hit the field, and then once the field moved, continue to where its intended target was?

Could you cast a ton of spells with durations longer than instantaneous, take a step to the left (10'), and have them all come into existence?

[tyckspoon]

So what happens when the Archmage sculpts the AMF around himself? Shenanigans? Or do spells that target him within the sphere affect him (such as an eyebite)? Would a ray cast at him stop one it hit the field, and then once the field moved, continue to where its intended target was?

Could you cast a ton of spells with durations longer than instantaneous, take a step to the left (10'), and have them all come into existence?

If he excludes himself from the field, spells targeting him work normally. I suspect the clarification/change was made largely to prevent that particular piece of cheese. I'm pretty sure a ray aimed at him would be invisible while it was in the field, but still be traveling across the field; it would come back into sight and effect when it entered his excluded space to hit him. You could probably argue for him being flat-footed against the attack, even, as if he were being hit by an invisible attacker.

Yes, you can put a bunch of duration spells on yourself and they'll all come into effect as soon as you step outside the AMF. Works the same as magic items regaining their effects when you go outside an AMF.

[Cuddly]

If he excludes himself from the field, spells targeting him work normally. I suspect the clarification/change was made largely to prevent that particular piece of cheese. I'm pretty sure a ray aimed at him would be invisible while it was in the field, but still be traveling across the field; it would come back into sight and effect when it entered his excluded space to hit him. You could probably argue for him being flat-footed against the attack, even, as if he were being hit by an invisible attacker.

Wouldn't a ray that was suppressed fail to move, since its locomotion is also a magical effect? If the magic is suppressed, it is essentially not there, so there would be no possible way for it to keep moving, since it actually ceases to function as long as the AMF is there.


Yes, you can put a bunch of duration spells on yourself and they'll all come into effect as soon as you step outside the AMF. Works the same as magic items regaining their effects when you go outside an AMF.

I meant spamming sleep, eyebite, etc. on the enemies while in the safety of an AMF, then moving, and having the spell effects go off. So cast some spells, then move a round later, and have the spells go off on the enemy then.

[tyckspoon]

I meant spamming sleep, eyebite, etc. on the enemies while in the safety of an AMF, then moving, and having the spell effects go off. So cast some spells, then move a round later, and have the spells go off on the enemy then.

Ah. No- if the center of effect of the spell is outside the AMF, it works normally except for the part that overlaps the AMF. If it's inside, the whole thing is suppressed. It doesn't matter where you personally are standing unless you are the target/center of effect for the spell.

[SithLackey]

So what happens when the Archmage sculpts the AMF around himself? Shenanigans? Or do spells that target him within the sphere affect him (such as an eyebite)? Would a ray cast at him stop one it hit the field, and then once the field moved, continue to where its intended target was?

Could you cast a ton of spells with durations longer than instantaneous, take a step to the left (10'), and have them all come into existence?

And on a side note, would the +5 ubersword of the fighter standing in the AMF next to the Archmage become magical again if, say, inserted into said archmage's internal organs? If so, would it recieve only bonuses to damage, as the magic is supressed during the swing, or would it veer onto the correct course as soon as it left the AMF?

[tyckspoon]

And on a side note, would the +5 ubersword of the fighter standing in the AMF next to the Archmage become magical again if, say, inserted into said archmage's internal organs? If so, would it recieve only bonuses to damage, as the magic is supressed during the swing, or would it veer onto the correct course as soon as it left the AMF?

Technically speaking, unless the fighter actually entered the Archmage's space then his sword (at least according to the game) never left the AMF. Just another one of the weird results that sometimes happens because of the 'squares' abstraction for measuring position.

[Chronos]

Wait a minute, here... Isn't there also a rule that the effects of instantaneous conjurations aren't suppressed by an anti-magic field? The logical conclusion, then, is that an anti-magic field does nothing at all to many spells, including all of the healing spells. So a cleric in an antimagic field could still cure himself.

I thought it was bad enough when I found out that the 3.x Darkness spell doesn't produce darkness, but now apparently an Antimagic Field doesn't stop magic, either?

[Emperor Tippy]

Wait a minute, here... Isn't there also a rule that the effects of instantaneous conjurations aren't suppressed by an anti-magic field? The logical conclusion, then, is that an anti-magic field does nothing at all to many spells, including all of the healing spells. So a cleric in an antimagic field could still cure himself.

I thought it was bad enough when I found out that the 3.x Darkness spell doesn't produce darkness, but now apparently an Antimagic Field doesn't stop magic, either?

The power of AMF is very DM dependent. It can be one of the best spells in the game with the right rulings or one of the weakest spells in the game with the right rulings.

Surpressing Field from Complete Mage is a much better spell. AMF should be dropped and a 9th level version of surpressing field which works on all schools at the same time should be made.

[Keld Denar]

"Instantanious Conjourations" is a poor mechanic anyway. Somewhere out there, wizards are amazing a massive pile of little force beads as the Orbs of Force they cast as "instantaneous conjourations" that are permanent never disappear. Pretty soon, the world will be full of these conjourations and we will be up to our eyeballs in Orbs of Force, Orbs of Acid, and other such conjourations.

Arc of Lightning? Nope, never goes away either. Just hangs there suspended in a line of crackling energy.

The whole mechanic is loopy. They need to take a look at that with 4th ed.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Hmmm...a creature with a 15' reach is in the center of an AMF with 10' radius and wields a magical sword...If the creature attacks people at the edge of their reach...is the sword magical because it is beyond the reach of the field, or is it non magical because the person wielding it is inside an AMF...what about his gloves of ogre power...the glove with the sword is out of the field...does he get the extra +2 strength?

[comicshorse]

Its been suggested that AMF fields just don't work to stop Orb spells. Is this true ? If sdo, why and where does it say this.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Its been suggested that AMF fields just don't work to stop Orb spells. Is this true ? If sdo, why and where does it say this.

It is true and it is because the orb is not magic. Magic is used to create the orb, but after that it is free to fly into an AMF.


Creation: A creation spell manipulates matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates (subject to the limits noted above). If the spell has a duration other than instantaneous, magic holds the creation together, and when the spell ends, the conjured creature or object vanishes without a trace. If the spell has an instantaneous duration, the created object or creature is merely assembled through magic. It lasts indefinitely and does not depend on magic for its existence.

[kamikasei]

Its been suggested that AMF fields just don't work to stop Orb spells. Is this true ? If sdo, why and where does it say this.

Orbs are instantaneous conjurations which are non-magical once they're created, so you chuck one in from outside the AMF and it's unaffected. It's like summoning (well, calling rather) a rock and throwing it at the enemy. How it maintains its orb-ness despite being "non-magical" is up to you. I suggest midichlorians.

[Theli]

Wait a minute, here... Isn't there also a rule that the effects of instantaneous conjurations aren't suppressed by an anti-magic field? The logical conclusion, then, is that an anti-magic field does nothing at all to many spells, including all of the healing spells. So a cleric in an antimagic field could still cure himself.

I thought it was bad enough when I found out that the 3.x Darkness spell doesn't produce darkness, but now apparently an Antimagic Field doesn't stop magic, either?

Instantaneous conjurations cast within the field WILL fail. It's only when they are cast outside, and the conjuration then moves inside the field, that the conjuration remains. (As has been stated by several people before me at this point, but I thought I'd clarify it anyway. :p)


Hmmm...a creature with a 15' reach is in the center of an AMF with 10' radius and wields a magical sword...If the creature attacks people at the edge of their reach...is the sword magical because it is beyond the reach of the field, or is it non magical because the person wielding it is inside an AMF...what about his gloves of ogre power...the glove with the sword is out of the field...does he get the extra +2 strength?

According to the rules compendium, if either you or your opponent is in a square covered by the field, all magical effects are suppressed. It doesn't matter that your sword would be technically out of the field, it's suppressed simply due to having been inside it.

What can be done is if you take up more than one square, from size large or larger, and only some of your squares are in the field, then you could attack from a square outside of the field (assuming that the attack can be made from there) and benefit from your magical weapons. (And gear, I suppose, though that's a little iffy.)

Of course, that square, and hence portions of you, can also be affected by magical means, so it's not a perfect defense against magic.