You at helms deep

[Zenos]

I once read a thread "you at plennor fields", so now I am making a similar thread where you're put in command of the Uruk-Hai army assaulting Helm's dee (well, actualy the proper name is the Battle for the Hornburg). You have all the knowledge of the books to rely upon.

This thread uses the book as a source.

[Hopeless]

I once read a thread "you at plennor fields", so now I am making a similar thread where you're put in command of the Uruk-Hai army assaulting Helm's deep. You have all the knowledge of the books to rely upon.
This thread uses the book as a source.

Okay so we're talking 10,000 orcs, no siege weapons, maybe a couple of huge cauldrons filled with gunpowder and covered to prevent premature detonation.

Can't see if being run any other way without introducing tactics they're wouldn't even have thought of, you know using that Wormtoungue to locate the rear door to Helms Deep and send a force to sneak around to it and whilst the battle wages outside they break in and when ready send message outside to let the main force know they've found it so they pull back seemingly giving the defenders a breather but in truth they're reinforcing the rear attack force so when they're ready the use the second cauldron as a diversion only to be used in smaller containers so they can penetrate the inner sanctum as the defenders suddenly realise they're being attacked on both sides and in their confusion annihilate them.

Sorry this is assuming Saruman has Wormtongue use his thugs to recon Helm Deep in preparation for the coming battle not realising Saruman's plans until he sees his army...

With alternative tactics such s getting Saruman to use his magic to cause an earthquake to rupture Helms Deep removing the need for explosives but I suppose thats going too far...

Nice topic though wonder what else this might inspire.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

All the knowledge of the books? In that case...things are kinda simple...same swarm tactics to begin the battle and breach the walls...during the battle, prepare disguised trenches and fortifications to prepare against a cavalry assault from flank and rear. (explosives well placed on fields of approach might be handy)...

Without the boost from allies at the end, their tactics while costly, were appropriate for the job given their manpower and urgency for conquest.

Though...if the fortress is simply a fortress...there is little reason to sack it...even if it is filled with people and packed with provisions. Their cities and farms have been razed, half their people are dead and supplies limited with no hope of regrowing next year really...within a years time they will be desparate and break without a fight...but only if you can guarentee they get no aid and can go nowhere that will allow them to restart their settlements.

So...if you have 100,000 men and all manner of siege equipment...control of th land and plenty of supply...leave a small contingient to keep the fortress besieged and then continue on and ensure that they are completely cut off from any and all aid and supply.

Also...I would have ordered all Hobbits to be killed, their belongings untouched, and their corpses wrapped in sheets/cloth (to prevent items from falling out) to be taken in to High command. If I could not kill them for whatever reason, I would have them hobbled (broken ankles and wrists) to prevent any escape or funny buisness. (if the Eants are gonna interfere anyways, nothing I can do about that...)


Then again...if I would have 'complete' knowledge of the books...I would have divided my army in two and moved out long before anything was expected...A smaller contingient would have taken the all but abandoned fortress at Helm's Deep secretly before anyone could react while the main force went burning and pilliaging to drive the people out of their homes and try and go to helm's deep for safety...this would have trapped them in the pass and squish...

then again...I have never actually read the books...so things may be vastly different in there in regards to people's preperations and alertness.

[Telonius]

Order the army to return to Orthanc. Bring oil, fire, and axes.

[LordVader]

I'd do it more or less the same way.

BUT: I would keep a reserve of, say, 1,000 Uruk-Hai, led by Berserkers, to take on Erkenbrand's 1000 footmen when they arrive. Killing them would be a crushing blow to Rohan morale and seal the fortress's doom.

[Mr. Scaly]

I think I'll have to agree with Telonius on this one. They can always besiege Helms Deep again once the speed bumps to industry have been burned down.

Failing that, I'd probably give the troops sun glasses. That way when the enemy cavalry charges down the hill toward the pikeemplacements, they won't all flinch from the sunlightand the cavalry will impalethemselveslike they should have

[Efil]

I would find the back door to helms deep and guard it with a thousand uruk-hai. The remaining army would, instead of assaulting the walls, keep out of the range of rohirrim bows and prepare trenches, stakes etc. for erkenbrands reinforcements. When erkenbrands men are dealt with i would either assault the fortress or simply starve them.

Also, the ents. I would keep two thousand uruk-hai at orthanc with fire arrows and axes (i still have 7000 uruks at helms deep).

[Raider]

Easy, don't attack and go home to have orcish mating time

[Zenos]

Easy, don't attack and go home to have orcish mating time

Ewww!!!!! That's gross.

[LordVader]

But the reinforcements in the book were Erkenbrand and 1000 Rohirrim on foot, right? Was there Rohirrim cavalry present?

[Zenos]

But the reinforcements in the book were Erkenbrand and 1000 Rohirrim on foot, right? Was there Rohirrim cavalry present?

Only the guys who sallied from the Hornburg.

[EvilElitest]

Remember people, Saurman had to take the fortress fast. If he failed to destroy Rohan before Sauron attacked Minis Tirith, his boss would be pissed off. Also the ents are attacking isengard. he is having a harder time than you'd think
from
EE

[skyclad]

Remember people, Saurman had to take the fortress fast. If he failed to destroy Rohan before Sauron attacked Minis Tirith, his boss would be pissed off. Also the ents are attacking isengard. he is having a harder time than you'd think
from
EE

Also, his "boss" was mad at him for trying to take the ring for himself. Even if Saruman had won I doubt he would have lived much longer.

[EvilElitest]

Also, his "boss" was mad at him for trying to take the ring for himself. Even if Saruman had won I doubt he would have lived much longer.

Yeah it is doubtful, we know Sauron was considering letting the mouth of Sauron take over Orthanic. But it really was his only hope, if he was able to crush Rohan and kill aragorn he might be not killed, and at least have a defensive position
from
EE

[Zenos]

EDIT: Ok, most people will go around and attack the Rohirrim from the inside. so, if you had been the commander at the Hornburg, how would you have defended yourself?

[kamikasei]

Remember people, Saurman had to take the fortress fast. If he failed to destroy Rohan before Sauron attacked Minis Tirith, his boss would be pissed off. Also the ents are attacking isengard. he is having a harder time than you'd think

But you're not Saruman. In this scenario, you're the commander of the Uruk-hai. So while you might turn around and return to or dispatch forces to Isengard because you have metagame knowledge of the Ents' attack, you can't change Saruman's entire strategy. You have been dispatched and your job is to crush resistance in Rohan. Towards that end all you really have to do is wait out of the range of the burg's archers, be ready for Erkenbrand when he arrives, and perhaps burn out the defenders once your rear is secure.

[Eerie]

I once read a thread "you at plennor fields", so now I am making a similar thread where you're put in command of the Uruk-Hai army assaulting Helm's dee (well, actualy the proper name is the Battle for the Hornburg). You have all the knowledge of the books to rely upon.

This thread uses the book as a source.

With meta-knowledge, I lead my army into the now Balrog-free Moria, subdue the orcs that remaining there, rebuild the defences, and start mass producing Mithril before anyone notice.

After Sauron falls, I start trading with human kingdoms and build a great economic empire.

[Zenos]

With meta-knowledge, I lead my army into the now Balrog-free Moria, subdue the orcs that remaining there, rebuild the defences, and start mass producing Mithril before anyone notice.

After Sauron falls, I start trading with human kingdoms and build a great economic empire.

You're meant to take the Hornburg, not do anything else. Stray from your mission and you will by shot by a commissar with a heavy bolter.

[Eerie]

You're meant to take the Hornburg, not do anything else. Stray from your mission and you will by shot by a commissar with a heavy bolter.

WHK40 comissar?

Change of plans, everybody jump on him and grab the bolter NOW!

[Zenos]

WHK40 comissar?

Change of plans, everybody jump on him and grab the bolter NOW!

Like that's do much with just some twenty bolts...

Oh jeez just use the resources you have and take the Hornburg instead of fooling around with a guy with a machine gun.

[Meshakhad]

Dress up as Gondorian soldiers. Pose as reinforcements.

Or, better yet, realize that there's nothing to stop Frodo from dropping that damn ring into Mt. Doom, so offer to switch sides if King Theoden gives me Helm's Deep as my HQ.

Hey, I technically took Helm's Deep.

Also, ROTFLMAO at the commissar.

[EvilElitest]

But you're not Saruman. In this scenario, you're the commander of the Uruk-hai. So while you might turn around and return to or dispatch forces to Isengard because you have metagame knowledge of the Ents' attack, you can't change Saruman's entire strategy. You have been dispatched and your job is to crush resistance in Rohan. Towards that end all you really have to do is wait out of the range of the burg's archers, be ready for Erkenbrand when he arrives, and perhaps burn out the defenders once your rear is secure.

But i also have total metagame knowledge. I'm trying to win a war, not just win a battle. Even if i win helm's deep, my base of operations has been destroyed and an army of pissed off trees are coming for me


Wait, are we using books or movies
from
EE

[Sixscimitars]

I would:
1. Leave 2000-2500 orcs with axes and torches behind.
2. Send reserve forces into Glittering Caves through the exit. Kill everything they see.
3. Build traps around Helm's Deep to slow down any reinforcements.
4. Post orc with horn as lookout.
5. Use mines to blow up key points, closer to the keep.
6. After defeat of Hornburg forces, burn Hurons(?) and call it a day.

[GrassyGnoll]

Swarm the surrounding mountains. Come on, they can't be that steep. Also, more crossbows.

[Vella_Malachite]

Easy, don't attack and go home to have orcish mating time

They're Uruk-hai. They are created by weird genetic mutation and don't mate.

Yeah, basically like the book, but give them the entrance to the back of Helm's Deep. Ditto ideas already said to that effect.

[EvilElitest]

I'd write a letter to Sauron


Dear Sauron, oh Dark lord of Morder,


I have some extremely important news. I have written to you to deliver a warning. I used my otherworldly knowlage to let you know of this, Gandalf has evil plans for your one Ring. He hopes to send a hobbit into mordor to destroy the greatest weapon in the world. One hobbit is a petty noble, the other is a Gardener. They will destory you. Also the WK will be shanked by another hobbit. I hope you correct that


From
EE


I will then get a letter


To EE

You are a total moron. Nobody would ever send a hobbit into morder, that downright moronic. Please never made any commands in my army again. You are totally worthless and i'm sending the LK to replace you. Cheers
from
Sauron, Lord of Morder, President of Morder inc

[WNxHasoroth]

Right, I'll leave my powder bombs behind me to take out the emo-tree men, high tail my way out of there, march to Mordor, and guard Mount Doom. Pa dum tish.

Or if I just wanted to take Helms Deep, I'd mass produce those bombs, and send them in under Turtle Shell shield formations and blow the entire wall to pieces.

Take advantage of the fact that you've just released several modern world military level bombs on a bunch of peasants and slaughter the Rohirrim. After that, take shelter in the ruins and watch the reinforcements stumble upon the ruined remains of their wall as crossbow men (Uruks?) cut them down.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

What are the "win" conditions? I assume I have to take the Hornburg and hold it? Any key characters that I need to kill?

Anyway, pending clarification, here's my plan.

First up, I've got a few days of siege to enhance my position outside. Breaching the wall can wait. The forces inside can be gently harried by front line troops to keep them paranoid while I secure my rear and flanks.
Around my force, I'm going to dig scattered pits a few feet deep, covered with local grasses. If local trees are sufficient, I'll add stake defences. That should protect me from cavalry charges. In particular, I want the gaps in Helms Dyke and the 'burg-facing slopes of the dyke staked thoroughly - this is the route an enemy must take to assault from me the rear.

At the same time, I want a commando team of archers to scale the Deep's cliffs ready to rain down covering fire (and I'm really thinking fire - let's set those arrows alight) when I blow the wall.
(On the subject of the wall - why are we blowing that up, instead of the gate house? From the novel, I suspect I can get to the under-wall site unseen. I'll stick with this as my best plan: it allows the bombs to be set and triggered without interference. At the same time, let's keep back a bomb, or request one more from Isengard - the inner keep is going to be hard to breach in a hurry.)

When I go in through the breached wall, I want a team to push in and hold the breach, while I have a team break for the keep. My commando climbing archers are shooting the backs of the Rohirrim by now. I want the court yards secured with ranked archery and pikemen, while skirmishers and other berserkers get out and hack 'n' slash through that defence.

If I've got my extra bomb, I blow the keep open and rush in. If not, I'll be aiming to breach it from the inside and out with rams. Those caves in the mountains where the local womenfolk are? That's my retreating point (and larder) for the ensuing siege when the cavalry turn up - if I don't take them down as they charge in...

After that, it's all just hard fighting. We'll have plenty of dead Rohirrim to eat.

[dehro]

have 500 uruk-hai covered in oil, tar and other similar flamable stuff
set them on fire
have the trolls trow them over the walls into helmsdeep.

[Project_Mayhem]

have 500 uruk-hai covered in oil, tar and other similar flamable stuff
set them on fire

Sacrificing minions. Is there anything it can't do?

[warty goblin]

Sacrificing minions. Is there anything it can't do?

That's always been my feeling. Soon as I get myself a new minion, I go off and sacrifice the sucker to get something done. Works wonders for bumping up grades for bad papers, the trick is to have two minions.

Me: Professor, I really feel that this is at least a 'B+' paper.

Professor: No, I'm sorry, but "I feel that Cortes was like a total meanie when he like had all of those people totally killed like that." is most assuradly not a 'B' paper. I'm still not exactly sure why I gave it the D- it got.

Me: Squerk, stab yourself in the eyeball with this ice pick right now!

Squerk: Yes boss. YEAAARRGGAARGGHAAAaaa... *dies*

Me: Now you were saying?

Professor: *looking disconcerted* not...not up to the standards expected of...of students.

Me: I see. Now Mubog, I want you to pull that icepick out of Squerk and sta-

Professor: On the other hand, I can see that you put a lot of work into that paper alright, and hard work should be rewarded. What do you think about a C+?

Me: Ignore the bad man Mubog. Now go and get that icepick.

Mubog: Yes boss! ERRG!! *pulls icepick out of Squerk*

Professor: And honestly puntuation and grammer are so...arbitrary anyways. So what if you had six commas, two semi-colons, and a colon in once senteance which you ended with a dangling participle? I really feel that for a first paper, this is more along the lines of a solid B-...

Me: Mubog, it looks like that bad professor is being a big old meany again, after we worked so hard on that paper. Well, there's nothing else for it, I guess you'll just have to stab that big 'ole icepick right into your-

Professor: And really, who cares that your primary source was Frank the cleaning guy who last read a book in 1964? I mean sure, he's not an expert on pre-conquest Mexico, but I'm sure he can nevertheless offer many valuable insights to many different topics. In fact I feel that on second thought your creative uses of Frank's insights into unblocking drains is worth an A all on its own...

Me: Well thank you professor, I knew we could come to some sort of reasonably agreement. Mubog, grab Squerk there and drag him along to the zombie pit. Undead minions aren't quite as useful, but they're good for picking people's brains at least.

Professor: uh, Haha? See you in class on Wednesday then.

Me: Mubog, I want you to take that ice pick and-

Professor: Actually, now I think about it, there's really nothing you can gain by going to class or doing the readings. It's evident you already know way more about all of this stuff than I do.

Me: Well, I'm flattered Professor. But I really must be going. If I don't feed the snake-demons promptly, the cause such a racket...

Works like a charm. The only problem is I keep running out of minions, and zombies stabbing themselves just doesn't work as well...

[Runar]

Lets see....I'm asuming this is book by the way.

Okay, first, take a good number of the mines (i'm asuming there are more then the 5 they showed in the movie) and bury them behind me as a "just in case" for the ent things that will come. Then, Send about 90% of my ladders into one little area of the wall, so they get mobbed by a LOT of berserkers. Then, send in the ram to the gate, but actually have a couple of the mines there, and blow up that entire area, thus ridding myself of a couple good heroes (if i'm lucky), as well as blowing up the causeway (thus making it so those pesky horses can't come out of it).
Next, prepare a good squad of uruk berserkers to completely go bat **** crazy when Erkenbrands men come, and kill as many as possible. I also want some pikemen out there for that annoying horse and wizard riding on it.
Then, after Erkenbrands men and that pesky wizard are dead, conventional seige.

It'll take longer then in the book, but who cares.

To completely bypass all of this, I could probobly use the Warg Riders to a better advantage in that part, hitting the collum from behind with some, then as all those warriors head to kill them, hitting from the front and side with more of them, thus killing a LOT of the people.

my strategy=win

[Meshakhad]

My strategy is better. I end up with zero casualties and an intact fortress.

[0mar]

If I was the commander, I'd get the Nazgul to utterly decimate the frontliners. The Nazgul, as stated in the books, are completely immune to all weapons wielded by men and only a single sword in the entirety of the kingdom can harm them. So have the Nazgul assault the ramparts and cut a line of destruction to allow the grunts to barge in. It might take a while to kill 500+ defenders with just 9 guys, but it's guarenteed to work because they are invincible.

[EvilElitest]

If I was the commander, I'd get the Nazgul to utterly decimate the frontliners. The Nazgul, as stated in the books, are completely immune to all weapons wielded by men and only a single sword in the entirety of the kingdom can harm them. So have the Nazgul assault the ramparts and cut a line of destruction to allow the grunts to barge in. It might take a while to kill 500+ defenders with just 9 guys, but it's guarenteed to work because they are invincible.

Not quite truth, but nice tatac

1. THe nazgul weren't at Helms deep
2. While they weren't many swords like taht one, the swords in question was a type of sword, not one of kind. That being said, next to nobody in Helm's deep had such weapons (aragorn, um, maybe Eomer and Theoden.
from
EE

[The_JJ]

I'd siege up, let the defenders stave and disease themselves to death. As long as 10,000 orcs plus Westling or whatever thier human allies were called renforcements, can hold off a few stray cavalry, I'm good.

[Mr. Scaly]

Okay...here's this.

-Have holding forces keep up a semi-constant attack on the gates and the back door, forcing the Rohirrim to commit men to the fight. Never press the attacks, but keep up enough pressure that they can't afford to ignore them. Do this constantly for the next three days, rotating troops as necessary to keep the men refreshed.

-In the meantime, the bulk of the army hunkers down and prepares to receive Erkenbrand and his thousand infantry in proper Uruk Hai fashion. Which is to say with lots of crossbows, spears, overwhelming numbers and a fortified position. Not even Gandalf can survive being outnumbered ten to one. And considering they'd just been defeated at the Fords of Isen and were attacking a vastly superior force, their moral couldn't be too high

-With that taken care of, Gandalf's head is sne off to Saruman as a present while the battle gets serious. Explosives are used to blast open the walls and an all out attack is launched in the gaps. The Uruk Hai use superior numbers and strength to overwhelm the men, who've been fighting this whole time so far, and drive them back tot he Hornburg.

-Finally, the rest of the explosives are used to blast holes in the fort's defences. The orcs advance under a shield wall and make a slow sweep of the fort, killing off anyone who resists. Cavalry charges will be dealt with lances and crossbows.

-Everyone enjoys a victory feast of manflesh.