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View Full Version : So.... now that I'm undead.



the.weasely.one
2008-01-30, 03:14 PM
Hi all,
I don't want to bore you with the details, but I'm in an evil campaign where the gods very much walk the earth. Each Player character is ultimately an instrument a god.
My character is a slightly paranoid, largely apathetic SwordSage and while some of that seemed to fit in with his diety (Apep), it just didn't seem that there was much there for him to get excited about. (I'm not even sure he knows how to get excited, but we'll see.) But I talked a few times how Nerull would probably have been a better fit for me.

But then, long story short - I died.

And it ended with Nerull giving me an option to go back, but as his instument, not as Apeps. Of course I agreed to it, and then got brought back as Undead, but with a permenant illusion over me so I look like myself before. And I can't let anyone know whats up. Nerull is of course hated, but even more here than other worlds.

So basically, what I'm looking for is any pointers in playing an undead in this kind of situation. Things I need to watch out for, etc. I mean obviously healing is going to be an issue and their heals will simply kill me. But I have some thoughts on managing that. I also know that I'm now very concerned with dying, because I know that (at least for awhile) dropping to zero is final.

Any thoughts/comments??:smallsmile:

sonofzeal
2008-01-30, 03:32 PM
"I'm not undead, I just took the Tomb Tainted Soul Feat..." :smallcool:

or

"Huh, seems like I'm undead now. Frankly guys, I'm as surprised about this as you are."

Max ranks in Bluff. Max ranks in Disguise. Provide your own healing. Canvas your DM for ideas.

AKA_Bait
2008-01-30, 03:40 PM
"I'm not undead, I just took the Tomb Tainted Soul Feat..." :smallcool:

or

"Huh, seems like I'm undead now. Frankly guys, I'm as surprised about this as you are."

Max ranks in Bluff. Max ranks in Disguise. Provide your own healing. Canvas your DM for ideas.

"Apep told me that my work is not complete but that soon I would have my reward. He has brought me back as a Risen Martyr or a Insert Name of Nonexistant Thing Here which makes me this way." If/when they ask why they have never heard of one before, tell them that you are the first to be so rewarded and smile a big cheezy proud of yourself grin.

Yami
2008-01-30, 04:36 PM
Your biggest concern should be staying away from anything that can use disintigrate. Usually a good idea on principle, but now doubly so.

Likewise, enemy clerics can now turn or rebuke you. Covering up your true nature is a good move, I wholly endorse it.

Fax Celestis
2008-01-30, 04:40 PM
Take the Lifesense feat from Libris Mortis. Wonder how your compatriots are so inobservant.

SithLackey
2008-01-30, 04:59 PM
As for healing, use potions of Inflict Wounds. If they even make those. You may need to find someone willing to make you some.

Collin152
2008-01-30, 05:04 PM
like I'm undead now. Frankly guys, I'm as surprised about this as you are."


"What's to explain? My hair changed color. It happens."
"Hair doesn't just spontaneously change color!"
"I stand by my ridiculous claim."

sikyon
2008-01-30, 05:21 PM
Stay away from your party cleric when fighting undead. If you are closer, they will auto turn you :smalleek:

Person_Man
2008-01-30, 05:34 PM
If you take levels of Setting Sun Ninja, you gain infinite healing for yourself and your party.

If you look at Libris Mortis, there are a boatload of powerful Undead only feats and PrC.

If you look at Book of Vile Darkness you get even more.

You can use a Life-Drinker (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#lifeDrinker) weapon.

You can wear a Ring of X Ray Vision (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#xRayVision) all day with no side effects.

Mindless undead (and occasionally other things) ignore you, because you're undead. This makes you an excellent scout in some situations.

Being undead is a gift. Normally you have to pay for the Necropolitan template. It seems like your DM took care of the "you won't be found out" part by giving you a permanent illusion so that you can keep up the in-game pretense. If the players ask why you're using weird mechanics, just explain your situation to the player, but explain that your character will be keeping up the pretense of being a person. Unless the other characters are tipped off in an obvious way, there really shouldn't be any roleplaying problems.

bigbaddragon
2008-01-30, 05:39 PM
You might not need to stay away from your party cleric for healing. In one of the Monster Manuals (I can't remember which) there is a monster named Tomb Spider that has an interesting poison. If a creature fails the save against it (or maybe its even automatic, can't remember) all healing spells that target that creature are converted to negative energy effects (inflict spells) which will actually heal you in your present state of ... body. So, you could try and stock up on that poison and ... you get the idea. I hope someone will provide more specific information on the monster I mentioned.

Collin152
2008-01-30, 05:40 PM
You might not need to stay away from your party cleric for healing. In one of the Monster Manuals (I can't remember which) there is a monster named Tomb Spider that has an interesting poison. If a creature fails the save against it (or maybe its even automatic, can't remember) all healing spells that target that creature are converted to negative energy effects (inflict spells) which will actually heal you in your present state of ... body. So, you could try and stock up on that poison and ... you get the idea. I hope someone will provide more specific information on the monster I mentioned.

Arent undead immune to poison?

bigbaddragon
2008-01-30, 05:53 PM
Arent undead immune to poison?

Unfortunately, yes. Nothing then.

Worira
2008-01-30, 05:58 PM
Your biggest concern should be staying away from anything that can use disintigrate. Usually a good idea on principle, but now doubly so.

Likewise, enemy clerics can now turn or rebuke you. Covering up your true nature is a good move, I wholly endorse it.

Disintegrate doesn't do anything special to undead, as far as I know.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-01-30, 05:59 PM
Now you can be a magical spellcasting item with the +1 LA Spell Stitched template from Complete Arcane.

BRC
2008-01-30, 06:05 PM
How's your bluff check. Here's what I Say you do, one night while your in a town go out, and find a rock or a coin or an amulet or somthing and say you either got it from a wierd old man or found it on the street.
Now this next part will require Cooperation from the DM, who, when the party wakes up the next morning, will inform you that you feel different, the whatever has vanished (You got rid of it during the night) and your party will experiment abit, finding out that your now an intelligent undead with an illusion over yourself.
Ta-Da, you now have an explination for your current state.

BRC
2008-01-30, 06:14 PM
How's your bluff check. Here's what I Say you do, one night while your in a town go out, and find a rock or a coin or an amulet or somthing and say you either got it from a wierd old man or found it on the street.
Now this next part will require Cooperation from the DM, who, when the party wakes up the next morning, will inform you that you feel different, the whatever has vanished (You got rid of it during the night) and your party will experiment abit, finding out that your now an intelligent undead with an illusion over yourself.
Ta-Da, you now have an explination for your current state.

The_Snark
2008-01-30, 06:15 PM
Now you can be a magical spellcasting item with the +1 LA Spell Stitched template from Complete Arcane.

Or... not, because that template has no given LA. CR is not the same thing.

Anyway.. stay away from your cleric, because his healing spells and turn attempts will hurt you.

You said that it's an evil game—does this mean that the rest of your party, or part of it, is evil? If your cleric is evil, it makes things easier for you; you can let him know you're undead, even if you don't reveal your change of patrons.

You can always let the rest of your party know (or let them find out) about the change, and just say you don't know why. It doesn't sound like it would be out of character for you to seem incurious about why you're undead now.

SimperingToad
2008-01-30, 06:43 PM
Depending on how well the party Cleric likes the undead PC, you may not want to tell all. Who wants their PC controlled by another player?

Also, don't tell your DM that rotting corpses tend to stink. That way you can avoid buying lots of perfume... :smallbiggrin:

Regards,
theToad

Ranis
2008-01-30, 07:02 PM
"I'm not dead!"
"He says he's not dead."
"Oh, he will be in a minute, he's very ill."
"I feel happy! I feel happy!"
*pumph*
"Oh, thanks very much. Here's your ninepence."

.....
.....

"I feel happy! I feel happy!"


Terribly sorry. Someone had to do it. To get it out of the way. :D

mostlyharmful
2008-01-30, 07:14 PM
make sure your character occassionally forgets to breathe, blink or wince when moving after hours of sitting motionless without any problems. Then have them bruch off any claims it's unusual. It's far more fun when they're weirded out.:smallwink:

shadow_archmagi
2008-01-30, 07:20 PM
Thats hard to do in RP. I mean, either you say "My character sits motionless for a few hours" in which case its OBVIOUS somethings up, or it becomes way too hard to notice. I mean, what were you expecting everyone to go "I breathe. I breathe again." constantly?

mostlyharmful
2008-01-30, 07:37 PM
Thats hard to do in RP. I mean, either you say "My character sits motionless for a few hours" in which case its OBVIOUS somethings up, or it becomes way too hard to notice. I mean, what were you expecting everyone to go "I breathe. I breathe again." constantly?

Just have your Dm play off it, have NPCs racting as thoughthere was something amis, then maybe blend in smoky/underwater/uberhot environments that the player doesn't notice/care about/ take any negatives from. Then have them not carry any rations or bother eating at feasts/heros feasts/ whatever. have them not carry a rucksack or have any stuff. then use a standerd bar room brawl where the pc takes no subdual damage, etc. etc. etc. There are plenty of ways that being undead would affect a PCs interactions without overtly saying "hey guys, I'm a walking corpse now. That's cool with everyone right?" #even if you have to actually say to the other players how your PCs actions/habits have altered outside the session it's not that bad since these are the sort of things they'd just notice and roleplay doesn't really cover. Since you never RP a PC wandering off for a dump you never notice the lack, fine, but then it's not unreasonable to ave the other PCs start rolling some of the lesser used skills to start noticing a partern adn guessing what's going on.

Chronos
2008-01-30, 07:49 PM
Disintegrate doesn't do anything special to undead, as far as I know.Not per se, but it's still highly effective versus them. Undead have no Constitution and a poor Fort save progression, so their Fort save sucks. Usually, this doesn't matter, since they're also immune to anything with a Fort save which doesn't affect objects (which is almost all of them), but Disintegrate can affect objects. So it can also affect undead, and goes after their worst save.

Collin152
2008-01-30, 08:12 PM
Not per se, but it's still highly effective versus them. Undead have no Constitution and a poor Fort save progression, so their Fort save sucks. Usually, this doesn't matter, since they're also immune to anything with a Fort save which doesn't affect objects (which is almost all of them), but Disintegrate can affect objects. So it can also affect undead, and goes after their worst save.

Indeed.
If you were a lich, you'd be immune, but no luck there.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-01-30, 09:01 PM
Or... not, because that template has no given LA. CR is not the same thing.


Thanks for the No LA catch was thinking about a Necropolitan.

Under the Spellstiched description on page 161 of Complete Arcane it says they can only be created by a sorcerer or wizard with the Craft Wondrous Item feat and that undead spellcasters can spellstich themselves.

No LA just increase CR+1 after paying the gold and experience point costs to add the template to a PC:

An undead whose exposed flesh /bones are covered with runes. Acquired Template that can be applied to any Corporeal Undead. Created by a Wizard or Sorcerer at the cost of 1,000 gp and 500 XP per point of Wisdom.

VanBuren
2008-01-30, 09:32 PM
Maybe your DM can provide you with a homebrewed ring or amulet that absorbs positive energy and releases an equivalent amount of negative energy in its place. It'll allow your Cleric to heal you without noticing anything, and it'll be balanced by giving up a magic slot.

Idea Man
2008-01-30, 10:29 PM
Subtle roleplaying tool: Loss of appetite. They may think you're just fleshing out your character's quirks, or they might think something is up.
Another subtle roleplaying tool you can use occasionally is that you don't become fatigued, ignore extremes in temperature, don't bleed anymore ("Honest, it was a near miss!"), or sleep. Take the juicy bits and mess with your friends. :smallwink:

Mechanics problem: Healing. I hope you have UMD, a favorable DM, or a neat little loophole like fast healing. Beware if your party gets to mass cure spells, as living people have no reason to worry, so they'll include you in the spell out of convenience.

Libris Mortis is your new best friend for feats/prestige classes. Spellstitched is a great idea, if you can swing it. Kudos to CASTLEMIKE.

Collin152
2008-01-30, 10:39 PM
Subtle roleplaying tool: Loss of appetite. They may think you're just fleshing out your character's quirks, or they might think something is up.
Another subtle roleplaying tool you can use occasionally is that you don't become fatigued, ignore extremes in temperature, don't bleed anymore ("Honest, it was a near miss!"), or sleep. Take the juicy bits and mess with your friends. :smallwink:

Mechanics problem: Healing. I hope you have UMD, a favorable DM, or a neat little loophole like fast healing. Beware if your party gets to mass cure spells, as living people have no reason to worry, so they'll include you in the spell out of convenience.

Libris Mortis is your new best friend for feats/prestige classes. Spellstitched is a great idea, if you can swing it. Kudos to CASTLEMIKE.

Mass curing spells have saving throws, don't they? Even for living targets?

tyckspoon
2008-01-30, 11:06 PM
Mass curing spells have saving throws, don't they? Even for living targets?

Will Half (harmless.) Most of the time you forfeit the save in order to better be healed. Since a Mass Cure spell would be an attack against the undead PC, he would roll a Will save for half damage just like any other attack. That could help prevent the PC from being accidentally killed by the Cure, but it doesn't get rid of the problem of being a supposedly-living thing that was just damaged by a Cure spell. And doesn't the book say somewhere that spellcasters know whether or not targets made their save against a spell? That would alert the cleric to something being wrong, assuming I didn't just entirely make that up.

Theodoxus
2008-01-30, 11:24 PM
Mass curing spells have saving throws, don't they? Even for living targets?

yeah, for half...

"Hey Jones, why're ya looking worse fer wear, I just cast mass heal"

"Well, Doc, if you must know - I made my save... but it still hurt :( "


Reminds me of a player in our current game - we're half convinced he's undead, but he has some obscure PrC or race or somesuch... everytime my paladin detects evil around him, I need to make a caster level check...

Chronos
2008-01-30, 11:30 PM
Indeed.
If you were a lich, you'd be immune [to Disintegrate], but no luck there.How so? They're immune to Polymorph, not to all transmutations.

Ojoxsofeta
2008-01-31, 01:24 AM
I'd watch real close to your hit points - when you hit zero, you're destroyed, are you not?

Voyager_I
2008-01-31, 02:07 AM
Indeed. This is further compounded by the fact that you don't have a Constitution bonus anymore.

sonofzeal
2008-01-31, 02:26 AM
The feat "Improved Fortitude" might be in order to help with hp, and you no longer need to avoid low-HD classes, so mixing in some Rogue or Ninja is better than ever.

I still say the best option is limited honesty - if you hide the fact that you're undead, eventually someone's going to cast "Detect Undead", or just plain figure it out IC or OOC. And, when they do, they're going to be deeply suspicious of anything you say at that point, and likely suspect you as a traitor of some sort or other. However, if you're immediately honest and forthcoming about your newly undead status, you avoid all sorts of complications ("so tell me again, why don't you want healing for that arrow that's sticking out of your neck?") and the horribly awkward interrogation round. Instead, all you have to do is make one good bluff, either attributing it to some "innocent" cause (ie one that won't get you lynched) or claiming ignorance and asking their help in figuring it out. If the DM's on your side, the latter might be a good course - drop a few phony clues, and your endlessly imaginative party members will probably be able to come up with something plausible-sounding. That'll help them feel involved, and clever, and make it psychologically much more difficult for them to backpedal into some other explanation. Play that one scene right, and you'll be golden.

Talic
2008-01-31, 02:37 AM
Intelligent undead heal naturally (so to speak) at the same rate living creatures do. So you heal slowly.

Increasing your turn resistance would be a good move, to make you mostly immune to the party cleric's turning. Libris mortis has a feat.

Lifesense is now gold for you, as there's almost no way to defeat it.

Potions of Inflict, a few similar effects, would help.


General rule of thumb for interaction: Reveal to your closest allies, conceal from all others.

Wolfprint
2008-01-31, 02:40 AM
Becoming an undead is quite cool.

Avoid Clerics and holy sites. I second the Potions of Inflict Wounds suggestion.

Talic
2008-01-31, 02:45 AM
Becoming an undead is quite cool.

Avoid Clerics and holy sites. I second the Potions of Inflict Wounds suggestion.

Become clerics and make unholy sites?

Khanderas
2008-01-31, 03:56 AM
Take a level of cleric and let your current party healer know you will take care of your own healing. Prepare a cure spell or two if you have to heal someone else (and spontainously inflict if you need them yourself).
(Maybe not the "right" solution for power, but he DID meet a god, agreed to a deal with him to walk again and it would make sense RPwise.)

Potions of inflict is good, but can be risky if someone is hurt and needs the potion.

Adumbration
2008-01-31, 04:33 AM
Good feats from Libris Mortis:

Positive Energy Resistance - Resistance 10 to positive energy effects
Improved Turn resistance - +4 to turn resistance
Improved toughness - This requires a fortitude base save bonus of +2, but it gives you hp equal to your HD. (For example, 12 HD, +12 HP).

That's all I can think of, at the moment. There are also some handy items in Libris Mortis that give you more turn resistance.

Collin152
2008-01-31, 06:13 PM
How so? They're immune to Polymorph, not to all transmutations.

I seem to recall it saying spells that alter or transform you, then it specifically mentions disintegrate. Let me check that.
Huh. Where was I getting that from?

Caracol
2008-01-31, 09:24 PM
I was undead some time ago. Drow Vampire Rogue 5 /Assassin 3.
Fun times.

BadJuJu
2008-01-31, 09:53 PM
Disintegrate doesn't do anything special to undead, as far as I know.

Except it is a fort save that works on them. No con + fort save equals pwned.

BadJuJu
2008-01-31, 10:07 PM
Intelligent undead heal naturally (so to speak) at the same rate living creatures do. So you heal slowly.

Increasing your turn resistance would be a good move, to make you mostly immune to the party cleric's turning. Libris mortis has a feat.

Lifesense is now gold for you, as there's almost no way to defeat it.

Potions of Inflict, a few similar effects, would help.


General rule of thumb for interaction: Reveal to your closest allies, conceal from all others.

Nah, reveal only to those about to die. Thats the Vampire way beyatch. Seriously, act no different than before. "Sleep" like normal. Pray to your "god". Do everything the way you would. Why ever give others power over you. Better to have an ace up your sleave than tip off anyone of your power.

Talic
2008-02-01, 01:34 AM
Nah, reveal only to those about to die. Thats the Vampire way beyatch. Seriously, act no different than before. "Sleep" like normal. Pray to your "god". Do everything the way you would. Why ever give others power over you. Better to have an ace up your sleave than tip off anyone of your power.

Because a controlled leak is sometimes better than a ruptured dam. Better to leak it to people who need to know, than have them find out on their own, and plot your ineveitable demise.

Yes, it's possible to keep Vampirism secret, provided you can stay at the fringes of combat and not get too messed up... But if your party's really smart... It's a bit harder.

If you're not getting those sweet vampire bonuses to rogue skills, it's a bit harder.

the.weasely.one
2008-02-01, 02:02 PM
Well sorry it took so long to get back to here. Thanks for all the interesting comments up to this point.

Leaking that I'm undead isn't really an option, that would be too close to saying 'I worship Nerull, kill me now.' However I am tryingt o figure out some kind of cover story about why I don't want their healing - probably something along the lines of my god getting pissed that I failed and died, and agreeing to give me one more chance, but not wanting me to be so reliant on other people or other people's gods.

I'm probably going to pick up a couple of levels of Favored Soul just to be able to do my own healing. (Intelligent undead in this land do not simply heal overnight like living people.)

I will have to look at the feats I want. I was heading towards Mo9, but that may have to wait an extra feat or so.

kamikasei
2008-02-01, 02:12 PM
I'm probably going to pick up a couple of levels of Favored Soul just to be able to do my own healing. (Intelligent undead in this land do not simply heal overnight like living people.)

One level of Dread Necromancer will get you an at-will negative energy touch attack.

mabriss lethe
2008-02-01, 03:27 PM
Well, what sort of undead are you? Generic "walking-talking undead"? something more specific?

If you have an Energy Drain attack from your new undead state, Necrotic reserve is your best friend, as are Necrotic focus weapons. The reserve means you aren't automatically destroyed when you drop to 0 hp and the Necrotic focus weapon allows you to bestow negative levels when using that weapon. My own experiment in undead havoc is behind the cut.

Currently tooling around with a human wight/monk/tattooed monk packing a +1 souldrinking necrotic focus kama and the Death devotion feat. He can pump out something like 14 negative levels per round of combat, + some if he gets a critical (a la souldrinking). With access to Improved energy drain from Libris mortis, the more he hits, the better he gets at it.
After a little testing, by the end of his 3rd round of melee, his lowest attack bonus is on par with his highest attack bonus in the 1st round, and it just gets better from there. Healing doesn't come up too often, since he gains lots of temporary HP from his drain attacks and from souldrinking. (but not, from what I can remember, from death devotion.) His tattoo of ...arrowroot, I think... allows him to heal damage... he's got SR from tattoo/ DR from tattoo/ Evasion/Good AC/decent saves all around ( so disintegrate isn't quite so dangerous), ok skills, etc. His slain foes rise up in a few rounds as his slaves/brute squad. general munchkin glee.



If that isn't an option, yeah, lifesense is good, positive energy resistance, also good.