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Overlard
2008-01-30, 07:51 PM
I need a replacement character for an ongoing game, and we're in need of a healer. I'm considering a half-drow favoured soul of Eilastree, but I'd prefer to be a cleric. The thing is, I want a high Charisma rather than Wisdom, hence the favoured soul thing.

Is there any way for a cleric to get Charisma as their casting stat?

TheSteelRat
2008-01-30, 08:02 PM
I don't know of any official feat / prestige class / etc. that would let you besides Sorcerer/Geomancer and the UA Spontaneous Variant, but I'd ask the DM if you could homebrew a feat that switched the casting stat over to Charisma instead of wisdom. Heck, switching it over in exchange for maybe a reduction in armor and/or BAB instead of a feat would probably be reasonable, but you're still relying upon DM's good will.

It makes a lot of sense to me, especially if you're looking at clerics being less 'fighter with divine spells' and more 'I'm here to spread the word of X/Y/Z.' Wisdom is nice for contemplation, but Charisma seems more useful in a 'worldly' cleric.

Charlie Kemek
2008-01-30, 08:08 PM
what about sujuna? cha based, can cure, spontaneous caster, etc.

Miles Invictus
2008-01-30, 10:51 PM
The Shugenja? I've heard that, while balanced for Oriental Adventures, they're underpowered for D&D. I haven't played them, though; I could be mistaken.

I think it'd be perfectly reasonable to let you switch casting stats for free, since Wisdom affects saving throws and Charisma does not.

Cuddly
2008-01-30, 11:31 PM
Switching to charisma casting wouldn't be too overpowered, since high wisdom and good will saves means many of the things Batman wants to hit you with won't do it. You'll be better at turning, but who turns anyway? It's clunky and generally a waste of an action. And if your DM doesn't allow DMM, which he probably doesn't, then it's no biggy anyway.

Prometheus
2008-01-31, 12:55 AM
While it is true that Wisdom is generally more helpful than Charisma there is the problem that usually clerics are forced to split themselves between Wisdom for spells and Charisma for turning and you'd have the ability to optimize both with a single ability. Perhaps your DM would make you a preacher-type cleric rather than a devotee-type cleric. You cast spells with your Charisma, but it is your Wisdom that allows you to rebuke undead. Just convoluted enough to work. Again, ask DM or just split the abilities anyway.

Nebo_
2008-01-31, 01:00 AM
Have you considered just putting a good score in charisma?

sikyon
2008-01-31, 01:08 AM
Have you considered just putting a good score in charisma?

Why settle for half the cake if you can get the whole thing?

Rad
2008-01-31, 03:33 AM
I think it'd be perfectly reasonable to let you switch casting stats for free, since Wisdom affects saving throws and Charisma does not.
Besides what was posted above about clerics usually having to split among two stats, there are also issues about new sinergies that would arise. Divine feats and some other class (or PrC's) abilities are geared considering that Cha is not the main stat for a cleric and that would ruin the balance. (Cleric/Paladin/divine Cha-based PrC?)

Caewil
2008-01-31, 05:34 AM
If you're looking for balance, don't play a cleric.

Starsinger
2008-01-31, 06:17 AM
Besides what was posted above about clerics usually having to split among two stats, there are also issues about new sinergies that would arise. Divine feats and some other class (or PrC's) abilities are geared considering that Cha is not the main stat for a cleric and that would ruin the balance. (Cleric/Paladin/divine Cha-based PrC?)

True, Charisma is one of the handful of (core) classes that actually care about charisma.

Amiria
2008-01-31, 07:13 AM
Lilitu Tanar'ri (Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss) cast spells as 9th-level clerics with the bonus spells and spell DCs deriving from their impressive charisma score (28 or 30, iirc).

Of course, getting a DM to allow a 14 HD chaotic evil outsider with no given LA as a PC might prove difficult. :smallwink: But it could use its Disguise Self SLA to appear as a half-drow. :smallsmile:

kamikasei
2008-01-31, 07:37 AM
Reasons to want a Cha-based cleric: SAD Eldritch Disciple. If you guys know of a way I'd be interested to hear it!

daggaz
2008-01-31, 11:59 AM
If you aren't playing an undead heavy game, and if you're not going to take all the new charisma based/turn attempt based feats (their are just waaaay too many of them, often full of cheese too), then you will have no problem whatsoever just switching charisma to wisdom.

Otherwise you will run into balance issues similiar to if you made strength or dex the casting stat of wizards. (hey str doesnt affect saves either, does it?).

Overlard
2008-01-31, 12:37 PM
Thanks for the advice guys, I guess the only way I can do it is with the DM's say-so. He might have a problem with it as he tends to use undead a lot, and although they haven't turned up so far, I wouldn't be surprised if they were the basis of the "next chapter".

The reason I can't just put a good score in Cha is because I need Dex as a second stat (she'll be lightly armoured, and probably using a bow. I know I could do some kind of Zen Archery/Monk's Belt thing, but we're far too low level).

Actually a Crusader would be pretty good for her (using a bastard sword rather than bow), but the DM is ant-ToB. :smallmad: