V Versus Rorschach

[Rare Pink Leech]

Here’s my attempt at a versus thread, pitting two of Alan Moore’s creations against one another – V from V For Vendetta and Rorschach from Watchmen. Both wear cool masks, both are willing to kill, and more importantly, they belong to completely opposites ends of the political spectrum. I think this matchup has some nice possibilities, but it requires a number of assumptions, so bear with me while I set up the scenario.

Let’s assume that both characters exist in the same universe: V as he is in the graphic novel, and Rorschach as he is just prior to costumed vigilantes being made illegal in the United States. In this joint universe, there has been no nuclear war, but there remains a very high possibility of one occurring, and society in general has crumbled in the west. The United States government has basically maintained the course, resulting in the rise of costumed vigilantes, whereas in England, Norsefire has risen to power to restore order. Otherwise, the background and stories of both stories remain the same – Watchmen is essentially the exact same as in the novel, and English society is the same as in V For Vendetta, with V possessing the same goals.

Let’s also assume the two combatants have general knowledge of each other. They both know each other exists, that they are skilled fighters who are willing to kill, that they have completely different political views, and so on. Both have an equal knowledge of each other.

To facilitate this encounter, Dr. Manhattan has teleported both men to a large city, so both remain in their element. However, setting this in either New York or London would give an unfair advantage to one or the other, so let’s say this takes place in Sydney, Australia. Sydney is a large, English-speaking city that neither V nor Rorschach is familiar with, in a neutral country that is located far from either the U.S. or the U.K. In this universe, Australia has neither turned to fascism nor created any costumed vigilantes.

When they are teleported to Sydney, they are both in full costume. Rorschach has his grappling gun, and V has his daggers, but no explosives. Since this is V from the novel, there is no evidence that he is physically scarred, so its possible he could blend in a crowd without his mask. Dr. Manhattan informs both of them they are in Sydney and that the other man is in the city. V will be able to find a way back to England, but it will take him a month (since England has closed borders). There will be no interference from any other character present in either of the two novels – only V and Rorschach.

The rest I leave up to you. Will Rorschach try to track down V, since V is precisely the type of person Rorschach hates? Will V lie low until he can get back to England, since his only goal is freeing England from fascism? Or will he recognize Rorschach as a threat and take him out as a precaution? Will they never encounter one another, or would one be able to take out the other in a surprise attack? Who would win in one-on-one combat, should it come down to that? Remember that Rorschach is in his physical prime, and we don’t know if V has superhuman attributes – it is alluded to but never confirmed.

[puppyavenger]

V managed to orchestrate a revolotion in a facist poilice-state and blow up the Leaders HQ even after he had given them the exact date that he was going to do it.
Forgive my ignorince but what has Rorschach done?

[Nerd-o-rama]

Wow. A vs. thread I actually find interesting.

Well, with them both able to blend into the crowds, and having no contacts in the setting, it'll be quite hard for either to find the other. Rorschach's investigative style pretty much boils down to beating up crooks until someone tells him something that sounds useful. None of the crooks in Sydney would know jack about V, and V really has no beef with Rorschach (whose civilian identity is a bit more distinctive, if not exactly noteworthy.)

However, let's say V tries to get passage back to England. He's likely to go through criminal/black market channels to do this quickly and quietly, which would eventually draw Rorschach's attention. (Meanwhile, Rorschach has spent a good deal of time killing off Sydney's criminal populace and hiding out from the local PD.)

Then we get to the fight proper. Since Rorschach has been looking for V, and V's just been trying to get out of there, Rorschach probably has the advantage. If he managed to get the drop on V, he might be able to disable him, tie him up somewhere, and then talk him to death. However, V is, superhuman or not, ridiculously fast and hyper-aware. If he dodges the sneak attack and gets his knives out, Rorschach is in trouble. V is better-armed and more agile. Rorschach's advantage is mainly knowing how to use terrain to his advantage. They're both fearless, great at ignoring pain, and probably equals in psychological deconstruction. I give a fair fight to V unless Rorschach pulls off something exceedingly clever with handy exposed wiring or something.

[Irenaeus]

I give a fair fight to V unless Rorschach pulls off something exceedingly clever with handy exposed wiring or something.I second this. My impression of V is that he is much closer to Ozymandias than Rorschach with regard to combat ablilties. Rorschach only has the advantage that he would probably not feel the need for drama that V would indubitably include in whatever plan he concocted to deal with Rorschach. He would probably loose.

[Serenity]

V is a proven master of the Xanatos Roulette. Rorschach, though a brutal fighter, is pretty much an utter loony, and his conspiracy theories really don't hold any water. There's a clear advantage for V in terms of brains and planning.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Rorschach, however, seems able to do some pretty MacGyver-y things when the situation calls. V doesn't seem to be so flexible, which could equalize things. All in all, I'd say that if Rorschach can set an ambush, he wins, but in a normal fight, V wins but is very badly injured.

[factotum]

I would go with V as well. He does things in the graphic novel that onlookers consider to be superhuman, whereas Rorschach never does. Therefore, V is simply physically more capable than Rorschach is. I think he's also considerably better at long term planning than R, whose general modus operandi, as mentioned above, is to kick seven bells out of any criminal he can find.

[Piedmon_Sama]

To be honest, I think in the scenario you provided both would just go home. XD (Rorschach might be like "what in hell, Ostrander" when he got back though.) They're both too obsessed with their own personal missions (and Rorschach's mission is as centered around his own country as V's is) to spend time hunting and fighting some guy who has no place in their plans just to satisfy principal. Sure, Rorschach would want V dead if he ever came to the US, and V would probably want to eliminate the Randian proto-fascist if he ever came to the UK, but otherwise I think they're content to stay out of each others' hair.

That said, for the good of our perverse entertainment they must battle to the death anyway. In all likelihood, V would find Rorschach before vice versa. Rorschach's investigation style is.... noisy. It wouldn't take V long to track him down, I imagine. I can also see V cobbling together some bombs out of scavenged chemicals and trying to lay an explosive trap for Rorschach. That may or may not work, but like others have said Rorschach's only edge on V in combat is his ability to McGuyver his way out of situations. I may need to reread, but I think even in the original V was clearly stated to be superhumanly agile and strong. Rorschach got his ass kicked by a guy who was at peak human levels, to say nothing of super.

So yeah, by and large I think odds favor V here... he can outmastermind and outninja Rorschach, basically doing what Rorschach does but better. That said, since I like the masked fascist better, my plausible ending is Rorschach spots a bomb V hid under some trash, waits for his theatrical foe to start monologuing, then surprises the anarchist by swipe-punting the explosive into Guy Fawkes' charming smile. >>

[Tyrant]

Perhaps you need to change the scenario in such a way as to force a conflict. Possibly have whatever powers that be arrange this match in a different manner. Possibly assume V's world is an alternate timeline where Ozymandius' plan either failed or was thwarted and Dr Manhattan still left Earth allowing the US and the Soviets to go to war. V would be made aware of Rorschach's intentions to tell the world when the moment comes thus allowing the nuclear war which allows England to become what V despises. Rorschach would be made aware that V wants to stop him. He's a fanatic so he won't really consider changing his mind about telling anyone. V's goal would be to stop Rorschach so Ozymandius' plan will succeed thus avoiding the war and England going all police state. Rorschach would just want to be his normal zealot self and doom the world to bring one man to justice. Then just pick a point in the story to drop V, and FIGHT.

[comicshorse]

I'm not sure about the Vs Thread but can we see that story as a movie as soon as possible

[Piedmon_Sama]

I like the idea of V standing over a battered Rorschach on some darkened rooftop, dagger whirling in his hand as Guy Fawkes' frozen face leers down and he says "verily, merrily have you wrought your violent end, ironic then, since in Justice's name you fought!" just as Night Owl's Jalopy swoops out of the sky and checks him over the roof's edge with a giant BONG. >>

[Jerthanis]

Doesn't V also have a limited degree of super-strength and super-speed? Didn't he jump onto a moving train and kill a man by punching a hole through his chest one time? Didn't he stare down the sights of a gun, and run ten feet up to it and disarm the man holding it before the man could get off a shot? Wasn't Rorschach from a universe where no one except Dr. Manhattan had powers, and was thus just a guy in a mask?

Considering they appear about on the level when it comes to planning/investigation, if they got in a straight fight I think it's pretty clear V could easily take the other man.

[comicshorse]

Didn't he stare down the sights of a gun, and run ten feet up to it and disarm the man holding it before the man could get off a shot

Er, no.
Actually the guy pulled the trigger,he'd just forgot to load it.

[Jerthanis]

Er, no.
Actually the guy pulled the trigger,he'd just forgot to load it.

Oh, sorry then, I must have missed that detail when reading.

[Nevrmore]

[Disregarding my inherent snarkiness for a moment...]

Though Rorshach doesn't seem to have any superhuman powers that are explicitly stated, you do have to remember that he was apparently strong enough to completely shatter a porcelain toilet bowl with one kick from a prone position, and strong enough in mind at least to seemingly completely ignore the antarctic climate in nothing more than a dirty trenchcoat and suit. Even if the former can be attributed to shoddy writing on Moore's part, it seems that Kovacs has some degree of superhuman ability, even if it's only in the aspect of ignoring the pain and discomfort that kicking a toilet down or being in a subzero environment would bring.

In the end, I think that if it came to a face-off, Rorshach would have the advantage in the fact that V's flair for drama would clash negatively with Kovac's natural improvisational ability, and the fact that he could probably do a fair job in ignoring any non-fatal stab wounds for the moment. If Fearful Symmetry is any indication, Rorshach is perfectly capable of using even ordinary household items as weapons and slink around stealthily, catching people off guard.

[Mewtarthio]

Wasn't Rorschach from a universe where no one except Dr. Manhattan had powers, and was thus just a guy in a mask?

That's not entirely true. Ozymandias, for instance, is never noted as having any particular powers besides extreme intelligence, yet he can still deflect--and eventually catch--bullets. Then there's the fact that Rorschach spends over half an hour exposed to the elements in the middle of Antartica with nothing more than his street clothes and doesn't seem to care, nor does he look the least bit unhealthy when he pulls off his mask in the end. Veidt's insistence that anyone can become a superhero if they buy into his program is probably somewhat exaggerated, but the bar for "normal" is obviously a lot higher in that world than it would be in ours.

I still have to give this fight to V, though. Rorschach is ultimately just too blunt to get a big advantage. Maybe if we rewrote history and had them both living in Sydney all their lives, things would be different, but taking away the home field advantage from Rorschach and giving V the bonus of being unknown stacks this in the British antihero's favor.

[commander43]

Yeah....Rorschach may be tough and clever, but V can freakin' stick his fingers through people's chests, and comfortably walk around while dying from a bullet wound. I would say the victory would go to V.

[Nevrmore]

Yeah....Rorschach may be tough and clever, but V can freakin' stick his fingers through people's chests, and comfortably walk around while dying from a bullet wound. I would say the victory would go to V.
Rorshach can comfortably walk around Antarctica. You're not giving him near enough credit.