I've Got this Friend...

[Balkash]

Honestly though, I have this friend. The problem is that his mum still treats and thinks of him as though he were a 6th grader. He is 16, in 11th grade, and he's about 5' 3''. He weighs only 100 lbs, and he has next to no confidence. He also has two brothers, one in 8th grade and one in 6th. His mum treats them all pretty much the same. He is allowed to drive, but she always treats him like a little kid. She never listens to him, and he has to go to bed at 9:30 with his brothers. It's not that he acts that way, it's just that he is too awkward and introverted to actually stand up for himself. Any of you ever had something like this, or know what he could do to either build confidence, or get his mum to actually respect him?


P.S. Cookie if you can come up with something to help him talk to girls.

[averagejoe]

Sounds a bit like me when I was that age, only for me it was less so.

The thing about getting respect is that none of the ways of getting it are plesant. He could, for example, help out a bit more around the house, above and beyond what his mom asks of him. Basically you can't try to get respect, you have to act worthy of it.

As far as building confidence goes, I've found that acting like you're confident soon leads to one being confident. Soon being a relative term; these things take time. Basically your friend has to decide to be more confident; I say this not as some sorta psychoanalyst, but as someone who once lacked confidence and used this technique (deciding to be more confident) to sucessfully become more confident.

[SilentNight]

I agree with Joe. For the talking to girls just get him in a nonformal setting with lots of people of both genders. Try to find a girl who shares his interest whatever they may be. Or just talk about random topics. If he just sits and interjects every so often he should get bolder.

[SurlySeraph]

I used to be a lot like that. I still am, in some ways. I agree with all the above suggestions. However, another thing you should do is advise him to join a sports team. If possible, it should be a team that's either fairly unpopular at the school (and so has few members) or one that's huge (so whether or not he's contributing doesn't matter much). Individual sports like tennis, swimming, track, and wrestling are best.

Basically, he has to commit to the sport. It needs to take up a lot of time and effort, and he has to really try and get better at it. Being on a sports team has three benefits: he'll get in shape (which makes everyone more confident, plus gives them more to be confident about), he'll have no choice but to get to know and make friends with his teammates, and he'll know that he's improving and accomplishing something. Even if he's terrible at the sport, he'll see himself learn and get better. I recommend individual sports, because that way he can't sit out or rely on his teammates; he'll have no choice but to work hard and improve himself.

Another (somewhat less constructive) way to make him stick up for himself is to teach him to get angry and lash out instead of being submissive. This isn't exactly something you can teach, and he's likely to get in trouble if he starts doing it now (I started fighting people who were bastards to me instead of letting them push me around when I was in middle school; but in high school you'll probably get referred to the psychologist as a junior delinquint if you start fighting suddenly).

Since making him get angrier at people by fighting back isn't an option, use the media. Get him to listen to heavy metal. I used to not listen to music; I'm happier, more confident, and better at communicating now that I do. I suggest metal because it's so visceral that he'll almost definitely respond to it (though you should start him with less heavy stuff, like Linkin Park, then work your way up with bands like Disturbed and Drowning Pool, until he eventually gets to like really angry bands like Slayer). If he plays video games, play more fast-paced and violent games with him; less Civilization IV, more Counter-Strike: Source.

I realize that encouraging someone to be tougher, angrier, and more violence-oriented does not seem very constructive. Usually it isn't. But for someone who's really shy, teaching them to stick up for themselves and fight back instead of hiding and obeying all the time is a good thing. Just don't overdo it.

As for helping him talk to girls... I can't help you there. But sports and angry music will definitely help his confidence around other guys.

[averagejoe]

Another (somewhat less constructive) way to make him stick up for himself is to teach him to get angry and lash out instead of being submissive. This isn't exactly something you can teach, and he's likely to get in trouble if he starts doing it now (I started fighting people who were bastards to me instead of letting them push me around when I was in middle school; but in high school you'll probably get referred to the psychologist as a junior delinquint if you start fighting suddenly).

I have to disagree with this. I've lashed out at people, on occasion when necessary, and other times when not, and it's just not a good idea. There's a difference between being agressive and being assertive; the latter is what one generally wants to aim for. One doesn't need to lash out at people in order to not let others push one around.

[Ya Ta Hey!]

Totally. Being known as a sorehead is only going to make people try even harder to aggravate you or be genuinely afraid of you.

The easiest way to develop self confidence is this: Get in with a group of people who are all mutually unfamiliar, whether its a new semester, a new team whatever. Nobody knows each other, so its a total clean slate and nobody has someone that they'd rather talk to. Loosen up your tongue, make an effort to get to know everyone (I start with the quiet ones) and keep it up.

No matter how many mistakes you make. If you can learn to not take yourself too seriously, its a lot easier to get back up on the horse if your joke flops or something. Once you get a feel for it in that environment, it'll be easier to do it elsewhere.

[Serpentine]

Honestly though, I have this friend.You lie. I know your sneaky ploys! :smalltongue:

The problem is that his mum still treats and thinks of him as though he were a 6th grader. He is 16, in 11th grade, and he's about 5' 3''. He weighs only 100 lbs, and he has next to no confidence. He also has two brothers, one in 8th grade and one in 6th. His mum treats them all pretty much the same. He is allowed to drive, but she always treats him like a little kid. She never listens to him, and he has to go to bed at 9:30 with his brothers. It's not that he acts that way, it's just that he is too awkward and introverted to actually stand up for himself. Any of you ever had something like this, or know what he could do to either build confidence, or get his mum to actually respect him?She sounds a fair bit like my mother, except she's only really done it with me and not my older sister. So, he could always imitate her: all he has to do is get a drug-dealing drug-addled abusive girlfriend, spend his nights at her place, verbally abuse his parents, get her pregnant and move out (genders reversed for obvious reasons).
Alternatively, there's just talking and negotiating with her. The only real symptom you've described is making him go to bed early, so I'll address that one. Honestly, I had a bedtime until I left home - 10.30, read til 11 or something like that - and we more or less negotiated that I could really stay up as long as I wanted as long as I got up on time in the morning. Nowadays, I regularly stay up til 3am and stay in bed til well after 11, so I guess I kinda needed it. He needs to sit down and discuss it with her. Explain that he's old enough to make his own decisions, to decide what time's best for him. As a teenager he probably needs something in the vicinity of 10 hours sleep. Start with that. He needs to convince his mother that he is capable of making his own decisions and of taking responsibility. Getting a job could be a good start, and will give him some money independent of his mother, and give him a taste of adulthood, as well as showing her how responsible he can be.
For building self-confidence, as said above I think sport (or other social hobbies/activities) and socialisation are probably the best means.

P.S. Cookie if you can come up with something to help him talk to girls.As I've said elsewhere, and recently, we're just humans.
...wait, he's a teenager, isn't he? That means the girls are teenagers... Run!
Nah, that just means you have to try to find the nice ones. Let me put it this way: The ones that are worth talking to, are probably going to be just as awkward, embarrassed and shy as he is. We're not some perfect divine being (or, as I said last time, some horrible emotionless alien). If he can talk to boys, there's no good reason why he can't talk to girls, too.

[Jagg]

I was a bit of a late bloomer. He sounds like me when I was his age (apart from the confidence thing).

Sounds like the kid is suffering from severe male hormone shortage. He needs to stimulate those glands!!!.

How do you stimulate the production of male hormones?

1) Sport. Especially contact sports like boxing, martial arts or wrestling. At least twice a week - three times would be better.
2) Violence! Simulated rather than actual is probably better. It comes from the days of yore when men had to hunt down hairy animals. Try Paintball - It'll be more fun than hunting down some defenceless animal, because at least afterwards he can tell his friends he pwnd them.
3) No drinking or drugs. Alcohol and certain types of drugs can inhibit male hormone production. That's why long term beer drinkers get man boobs.
4) Boobs! no not man boobs the other kind. Preferrably actual boobs rather than simulated ones. (I understand this may be difficult especially if he lacks confidence). Oh and if he's not that way inclined I guess man boobs may be his thing.:smallsmile:
5) Naughty fun times. Preferably with someone else (Once again I understand this may be difficult if he lacks confidence).:smalltongue:

With regards to Mommy dearest, he simply needs to communicate with her - I know this sounds easier than it is. Sorry Mom, I've done my homework, did the dishes, swept the floor etc, and now I need to exercise. You want me to grow up big and strong right? If mommy see's that junior is trying to improve himself, hopefully she'll loosen the apron strings a little. Alternatively he could try the shock and awe approach. The sex talk... So at what age were you sexually active Mom? When did you start...relieving the tension? If that doesn't firmly establish in mommy's mind that junior is growing up and needs to be treated differently...nothing will.

[Copacetic]

I agree with the whole get him into sports thing. Try finding a local boxing club or martial art club. There is really nothing like hitting a punching bag untill his knuckles bruise for building confidence. Also, get him a job, preferably one that requires skill. Flipping burgers wont impress Momy Dearest, but being a lifeguard will. That will probably help Mommy Dearest loosen her apron drawstrings around your friends neck.


About the whole Girl thing, if the Sport thing works out encourage him to find a girl Boxer/Martial artist to talk to until he feels comfortable talking to girls as long as he has a subject n common. Then all you have to do is get a Girl he shares intrests with and herd them towards each other. Once(If) He gets a girlffriend ths may be the final straw for Mommy Dearest and will relinquish her Drawstrings off death.

@ Serp: Really, cause at my Middle School their both.:smalltongue:

[Serpentine]

@ Serp: Really, cause at my Middle School their both.:smalltongue:Then you're spending far too much time watching those mindless starlings natter and peck at each other and not paying enough attention to the girl in the corner with the book :smallwink: :smalltongue:

[Copacetic]

Then you're spending far too much time watching those mindless starlings natter and peck at each other and not paying enough attention to the girl in the corner with the book :smallwink: :smalltongue:

Whatcha talking about? I WAS talking about the girl in the corner with the book. The starlings are so strange and bizarre they drove more men mad then I could spit at. *spits*:smalltongue: They Smle and greet each other but As soon as they turn around they mutter things abot ther parentage. It goes kinda like this:

Girl One: Hi!
Girl two: Hello! How are you?
Girl One: Just fine thanks.

*walks off*

Girl One: *mutter* Dogbreath(At best) *mutter*
Girl Two: *mutter* Slimy Weasal(At best) *mutter*


Anyway, back on topic


.....

Oh wait, I already Said everything I know. Quick, before the mods deem this worthless! Umm......... And buy him cheese!

[Hell Puppi]

I once had a friend who was TERRIFIED of talking to girls.

I said, "But David, I'm a girl and you talk to me all the time. We're talking right now."

"But you're a different girl."

...and by that he meant I wasn't very judgmental, played all the stupid games he loved, and was interested in talking about the same things. If you can find a girl that won't intimidate him, even if he's not interested romantically in her, it helps.
The biggest boost to my friend's david ego, however, was finding someone to look up to. Not sure if anything can help there. He just happened to find our friend Ron, who was cool, great around the ladies, and a total nerd. It helped David tremendously being around him.

[SilentNight]

P.S. Cookie if you can come up with something to help him talk to girls.
Hey, where's my cookie?:smalltongue:

[Serpentine]

And mine! D=

[Balkash]

*snip* However, another thing you should do is advise him to join a sports team. If possible, it should be a team that's either fairly unpopular at the school *snip* Get him to listen to heavy metal. *snip* If he plays video games, play more fast-paced and violent games with him; less Civilization IV, more Counter-Strike: Source.

Thanks, I agree with a load of what you said. He does cross country like me, which is the least popular sport. Even frisbee (which isnt a sport, but either way) is more popular. And he listens to SOAD, Metallica, Slayer, Dragonforce, Cradle of Filth. Trust me, we've got the music covered. I've tried the getting him into a group with girls and just talking, it's just really really hard to get him to comment.

Thanks to Serpentine, though you are wrong. Women are scary divine alien paragons.

Cookies to SilentNight and Serpentine. Bite-size cookies to everyone else. Thank you to all who replied, or even just read. I think I'll try to get him alone with this one girl he likes, and hope that goes well. And as much as I'd love him to stand up and talk to his mum, I think we need to find some boost to his confidence before he can actually do that. If anyone else has more comments, keep them coming. I'll keep baking those cookies :smallsmile:

[Serpentine]

Women are scary divine alien paragons.I... want to avatar or stat that out, now :smalleek: For now, I think I'll just sig it...


I think I'll try to get him alone with this one girl he likes, and hope that goes well.Just make sure it's not just him, and her, in an empty room, with nothing to do but be awkward or whatever. It will help vastly if they have something right there to talk about or to make conversation not a dire necessity. If you can arrange it, just having them both playing a game or something would really help.

[Metal Head]

With the girl thing, I recommend you get the to talk to him, not the other way around. It's basically how I got past the awkwardness. A few girls got interested in me, started to talk with me, and soon enough I was fearless.

As for giving him confidence, the girl thing will be part of it. Complement him every once in a while on his accomplishments. Don't overdo it though, or else he'll just think that you feel sorry for him. Ask for his advice too. Having someone come to you for advice usually makes you think that you're useful, smart, good at something, or whatever.

And girls are scary divine alien paragon. But for some reason having complete strangers give them food (this is known as going to a restaurant) makes them incredibly human (especially if it's some sort of Asian food, and no, I don't know why).

[Jagg]

Thanks to Serpentine, though you are wrong. Women are scary divine alien paragons.

Cookies to SilentNight and Serpentine. Bite-size cookies to everyone else. Thank you to all who replied, or even just read. I think I'll try to get him alone with this one girl he likes, and hope that goes well. And as much as I'd love him to stand up and talk to his mum, I think we need to find some boost to his confidence before he can actually do that. If anyone else has more comments, keep them coming. I'll keep baking those cookies :smallsmile:

*Sigh* Seems like the "friend" isn't the only one with confidence issues when it comes to talking to girls. Sheesh it's not THAT hard Balkash. *puts on the Fedora of explaining and lecturing +5*

Girls are people. Say you meet this fabulously gorgeous girl. For the sake of this demonstration lets call her Haley :haley: :smallbiggrin: You can be thog :thog::smalleek: She's the kind of girl that gives you that hollow feeling in your stomach, makes your mouth dry, your heart race and your palms sweat. Now if you are a teenage boy there is only one thing you are thinking about and it's going to be front of mind when you talk to her. So you walk up and lay your best move on her. :thog: Hey..um Haley, your hair...um nice today. Now :haley: being such a scary devine alien paragon, blows you off if she's nice, :haley: "beat it creep" or shoots you down in flames and makes you feel like an idiot if she's not nice.:haley: "As If fugly. I wouldn't be seen in public with you if you paid me, I'm now calling all my girlfriends to tell them what a loser you are." Girls are particularly good at rebuffing the kind of attention that they do not want (they tend to go for more mental wrestling than physical wrestling with their peers as they develop).

So BOOM you crash and fail. :thog: "Thog sad" (there are reasons why :thog: failed and I'll get to them in a bit). So you crashed and burned and now you start to question yourself. I'm not good enough for her, I'm too short, too tall, too fat, too skinny, too pimply, too weird, too young, too old too whatever. The NEXT time you see a girl you like you hear a little voice inside your head going Don't do it Thog, she'll just crush your feelings like bug, you don't need that, you're too orcish for her. It not worth it.. :thog: "Thog cry now and transfer affection to puppies". So you lose your nerve and it becomes a vicious circle and you end up being this nervous weird kid who doesn't interact with anyone and thinks girls are scary. :thog:"Arrgh run away from the pretty girl."

So here's where we get to the interesting bit - I hope. Girls are people, and unless you are Steven Hawkins's just as smart as you. You think she doesn't know what you are thinking about when you walk on up and try your move? You've gone in with certain expectations. Humans are social animals and they pick up on those telltale signs of attraction because millions of years of evolution have designed us that way. There will be things you don't even know are happening that give it all away. Widening of your irises, opening of sweat glands, pheremones etc etc that activate because you are thinking about :haley: as a potential partner. :haley: picks up on that. Now unless you are an Adonis with perfectly sculpted abs, large muscular arms, shapely legs and butt who looks damn good in his school uniform, excels in his studies, is kind to animals and small children, is known to help with the local charity, thinks Shakespear was a prince of men and has memorized "Macbeth", isn't full of himself, has a sense of humour, has short hair/long hair/ clean shaven/ unshaven/tattoo/no tattoo/nipple piercing/no nipple piercing/ blond hair /black hair /white skin/ dark skin etc whatever etc that comes pretty close to matching :haley:'s internal list of what constitutes her ideal man, your move is unlikely to result in her sweeping the books off the table and saying. :haley: "Oh Thog - take me now". :thog: "Thog look good with Axe".

:haley: doesn't know who you are, you don't know who she is and for most girls what you look like only makes up a small part of what attracts her to you. Now :haley: could be a complete and total bitch whose idea of fun is twisting guys around her fingers to get them to do her biology homework for her. She could also be your soulmate but unless you talk to her you will never know. So how do you get to talk to her to find out? You need to speak to :haley: with no expectations.. Talk to her if she is just one of the guys. :thog: "Hey Haley. Did you finish question in Xykon's class about the skeletal system yet? Thog have trouble with question 4". Once you are talking, and :haley: knows you're not just out to jump her bones, you'll find out pretty quickly if you would be good togther. You'll also build up credits with :haley: for when you make your move, because she's gotten to know you better and like's at least some of your qualities. :haley: "You're so kind to animals Thog and I like that about you".

If you are a good fit...great, if not, you haven't gone in with any expectations, so it's no skin of your nose right? :thog: "Thog have no nose."
*takes off fedora*

[Serpentine]

Damn people, taking what I was trying to say an articulating it several degrees better than I could :smallannoyed:

[Jagg]

Damn people, taking what I was trying to say an articulating it several degrees better than I could :smallannoyed:

:smalltongue: (insert raspberry noise)

I could go on but of course I don't want to reveal all the secrets of my playboy millionaire secret agent astronaut brain surgeon existence. :smallsmile:

[Thanatos 51-50]

<*Insert good advice complete with clever use of OotS smileys here*>

The problem with that is, eventually:
:thog: haley, it thog, how are you?
:haley: What is it?
:thog: thog want to ask haley if she want to go out sometime
:haley: Oh, but Thog, we can't. The problem is, we're good friends and I wouldn't want to ruin our friendship.
:thog: thog think we still be friends later!
:haley: Sorry, thog, but we can't and we won't, so I'm sorry, but no.
:thog: thog sad and depressed and rip jagg's throat out with axe.
<No offence Jagg>

Does anyone else here really HATE that line?

[Jagg]

The problem with that is, eventually:
:thog: haley, it thog, how are you?
:haley: What is it?
:thog: thog want to ask haley if she want to go out sometime
:haley: Oh, but Thog, we can't. The problem is, we're good friends and I wouldn't want to ruin our friendship.
:thog: thog think we still be friends later!
:haley: Sorry, thog, but we can't and we won't, so I'm sorry, but no.
:thog: thog sad and depressed and rip jagg's throat out with axe.
<No offence Jagg>

Does anyone else here really HATE that line?


Thanatos I've copied your response into a new thread I just made...

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3876380#post3876380

Check it out

JAGG

[willpell]

As far as building confidence goes, I've found that acting like you're confident soon leads to one being confident. Soon being a relative term; these things take time. Basically your friend has to decide to be more confident; I say this not as some sorta psychoanalyst, but as someone who once lacked confidence and used this technique (deciding to be more confident) to sucessfully become more confident.

As an armchair philosopher (sadly minus the actual armchair, these office swivel dealies aren't as comfortable), I find that the biggest barrier to gaining confidence, or to accomplishing much of anything really, is fear. If you were never afraid, you could try anything just to see if it works, but fear tells you that you'll probably fail and shouldn't bother trying as you'll just be worse off for the waste of effort. Which is sometimes true, but that nagging voice of fear will never shut up once you start listening to it. The only thing you can really do is suck it up and take some lumps, not let yourself be defeated. You'll fail a hundred times before you succeed, but if you give up after the tenth failure because you don't think you can stand ninety more, then guess what? All you've accomplished is to make ten unpleasant memories. If you don't want to spend your whole life at the bottom of the hole, start climbing up; no matter how many times you fall, you aren't trapped until you stop trying to escape.

[Agamid]

Sounds like a friend of mine, only he's 19, going on 20.
I think his parents' sheltering of him is because his older brother's disabled, but regardless, their over-sheltering of the two means that neither have very good social skills.
And he's terrible with women. He'll have one women drooling all over him and not notice, instead he'll ask out one who, while liking him as a friend, doesn't want anything more than that.
Then he'll spend the next year of his life (maybe more) obsessing over them and not looking at a single over woman.

Only in the last year or so has he been doing anything the slightest bit 'rebellious', but he still calls them whenever he's not doing to be home for dinner and he never goes home drunk (though i fail to see how they could have missed the fact that he drinks).

[Inhuman Bot]

I have to say, the "get him angry" invariably is a bad idea.

[valadil]

Does this friend actually want to build confidence or is he comfortable being treated like a baby. I ask because if you force him into character building situations against his will he may react badly.

Can you talk to his mom? All parents want whats best for their kids. She just may not actually know whats best. Maybe if she treats him like an adult he'll act like one.

Also, I'll second the late bloomer thing. Especially if he's only 5'3". There's a good chance he just hasn't hit the teenager chemical imbalance that makes people hate their parents. If this is the case, I bet he'll just have to wait it out.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Confidence in itself is actually a combination of three things - assertiveness, self-esteem and self-efficacy. It's easier if you go about raising each one separately rather than raising the general self-confidence level.

Assertiveness is the ability to resist aggression, for example when someone yells at you and tries to make you do their homework, you yell back, call them (insert random slur here) and tell them to go and make love by themselves. It's also the willpower to make someone comply with you. IMO the best way to raise this is martial arts - they generally make people (well, men) cockier since they're much less afraid of getting beat up.

Self-esteem is obvious. It's how much you like yourself and how much you care about other people's opinions regarding yourself. Generally it goes up if people whose opinions matter the most to the person in question complement him (but the compliments have to appear natural, not forced, which will actually make it worse since the person will think they're pity compliments).

Self-efficacy is the confidence in your general ability and skills in certain things ("I'm bad with women" would fall in this category, as would "I suck at math" and "I'm an awesome dancer). This part involves either involves getting better at said skills (and being complemented on it) or a form of cognitive therapy to teach a person not to care about certain skills that bother them the most. Also, which skills are important are usually determined by the society around a person - in an archetypal high school athletic ability is important, in an Ivy League university booksmarts are, in a party school social skills and getting laid a lot are important and being sucky at these things in these environments will put the person under a lot of stress, which will eventually decrease both the self-esteem and self-efficacy.