View Full Version : Monk of Tied Hands PrC [PEACH]

2008-01-31, 08:13 PM
Work in progress, give me advices!!!
Edit: Version 2.5

This is my first post and first try - be kind (and honest) :smallredface:

Somebody does it for an faithful oath, somebody does it to expiate their faults, and somebody does it just for the taste of the challenge. The choice to not use your hands anymore is difficult, and few adventures are strong enough to cope with it.
The Monks of Tied Hands abolishe the use of their hands, even in their daily life: some of them bind their hands with chains or bracers, some cuts them to never fall in the temptation. They choose this limitation to prove to themselves and to their gods that they are worthy enough. But if they lack in this, they compensate well: they specialize in the use of their legs to change them in useful tools and deadly weapons. Their style is unmatched if it comes to kicks: they can deliver devastating blows, jump like no one and perform the most umbelievable acrobatics.
Almost all Monk of Tied Hands comes from the Monk class, but some fighters choose this class as well.
Hit Dice: d8

To become a Monk of Tied Hands, a character must meet the following requisitions:
Alignment: Any Lawful.
BAB: +4.
Balance: 4 ranks.
Jump: 4 ranks.
Tumble: 4 ranks.
Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike.
Special: The character must live for a month without using his hands, or defeat, by itself, a foe with a CR equal to his character level, without using his hands.

Class Skills
Balance, Escape Artist, Hide,Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Perform(acrobacy) Profession, Sense Motive, Swim, Tumble.
Skill points per level: 4+Int modifier


1st|+1|+2|+2|+2|Hand ban, Combat Style, Use feet -6, Unarmed damage 1d10

2nd|+2|+3|+3|+3|Combat Style, Combine

3rd|+3|+3|+3|+3|Combat Style, Acrobatics, +1AC

4th|+4|+4|+4|+4|Combat Style, Unarmed damage 2d6, Safe landing

5th|+5|+4|+4|+4|Combat Style, Catch arrows, Use feet -4

6th|+6/+1|+5|+5|+5|Combat Style, Foe Jump

7th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+5|Combat Style, Unarmed damage 2d8

8th|+8/+3|+6|+6|+6|Combat Style, +2 AC

9th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+6|Combat Style, Wall run

10th|+10/+5|+7|+7|+7|Ki kick, Use feet -2, Unarmed damage 2d10


Class Features

Weapon and armor proficiency: A Monk of Tied Hands does not gain any weapon or armor proficiency. Plus, he couldn't use weapon properly (see Hand Ban).
Hand Ban: A Monk of Tied Hands cannot use his hand for any action: if he does so, he loses his class bonuses and cannot gain new levels in this class. An expiation of his faults could let him regain the bonuses (see expiation spell).
Use feet: A Monk of Tied Hands could use his feet istead of his hands to do anything he wants, (even using a weapon), but with a penality of -6 to the action or the skill check. This penality reduces to -4 at 5th level and to -2 at 10th level. He can use one foot standing up on the other, but has to perform a Balance check.
Unarmed damage: Monk of Tied Hands kicks do 1d10 damage at 1st level, 2d6 at 4th level, 2d8 at 7th level and 2d10 at 10th level.
Combat Style: At each level (except 10th), a Monk of Tied Hands could choose one of the following kicks:

Axe kick:A Monk of Tied Hands can deliver a powerful axe kick that increase the damage by 1d6 and stuns the opponent(Fortitude negates CD 10+Half of Monk of Tied Hands levels + Wis modifier.)

Backwards kick:A Monk of Tied Hands can deliver a kick directed to his back, without turning, if it's attacked by an opponet from his shoulders, as a free action. The Monk of Tied Hands must be aware of the opponent that is flanking him.

Counter kick: When attacked by an unarmed opponent, and if his opponent misses, a Monk of Tied Hands can make a counter attack as a free action.

Double kick: A Monk of Tied Hands can deliver a kick followed by another at -2/-2 to the attack bonus. This ability can be used along with the Flurry of Blows.

Flying kick:A Monk of Tied Hands can deliver kicks during Jump or Tumbe checks. He gains a -1 to the attack roll and +1d6 of damage to be added to the base damage for every 10 feet of falling or jumping.

Round kick: A Monk of Tied Hands can deliver a powerful kick that has a +1 to the attack bonus and a +1 to the damage bonus.

Stomp kick: A Monk of Tied Hands can deliver a strong stomp kick on a foes that is on the ground: he gains +2d4 to the damage roll.

Thrust kick:With a full round action, a Monk of Tied Hands can deliver a very powerful frontal kick, increasing the critical range by 2 and pushing backwards an opponent by 10 feet, gaining a free Bull Rush attempt. A Monk can't use this ability with opponent with more than 2 size category bigger than him.

Trip kick:A Monk of Tied Hands can deliver a kick that doesn't do damage but gives a free Trip attempt with a +4 bonus to the roll.

Combine: A monk of tied Hands can use his kicks tecniques together to develop devastating combos. He can use a number of Combat Style techniques in a single turn up to his Wis modifier. He can't make more actions that his BAB allows.
Safe landing: A Monk of Tied Hands can land safety from every height if he succeds in a Tumble check equal to the distance (in feet) from he is falling from.
Acrobatics: A Monk of Tied Hands gains a +4 insight bonus to Balance, Jump and Tumble checks.
Catch missiles: A Monk of Tied hands could catch arrows, darts and other small throwing weapons using his mouth. This ability works as the Deflect arrows feat, with the exception that a Monk of Tied Hands can also throw them back in the following turn, using his ranged attack bonus.
Foe Jump: A Monk of Tied Hands can use an opponent as a trampoline: he does 1d6 of damage for every 10 feet of fall or jump to the foe and gains a +5 to the following Jump or Tumble check. He can't use this ability more than his Wis modifier score in a turn.
Wall run: A Monk of Tied Hands can strenghten his legs to the almost impossible: he can run on every vertical surface, using his Tumble check istead of the Climb skill. He can move up to his maximum distance on vertical walls. He does not receive penalities to AC performing this action. This ability can be used only if the Monk of Tied Hands runs and keeps running over a surface. If he stops running in the following turn, or is stopped by something else, begins to fall. This ability works as the spider climb spell, with the differences stated before.
Ki kick:Gathering his inner energy, with a full round action, a Monk of Tied Hands can deliver a devastating single blow to an opponent, damaging him up to half his hit points. This ability can be used just 1 time a day. (Fortitude negates DC 10+Monk of Tied Hands levels + Wis modifier)

Please, to keep comment and give me advices, about the concept, the character develop, the class features....

2008-01-31, 08:25 PM
Send a personal message to a moderator asking him or her to move this to the Homebrew forums; there's no need to delete it.

On to the actual class.

The class concept is very, very weird. But not necessarily weird in a bad way. The only problem is that a lot of the class features are unclear. My questions are as follows:

Can he apply the Round Kick bonus to every attack? Can he use it with Flurry of Blows? What, if any, are the limitations on it?

Can he use make more than one of his attacks in a round as a Trip Kick?

How far does the Thrust Kick knock the opponent back? If the trip attempt made with it succeeds, does the opponent fall where he was when the monk kicked him or as far as the monk kicked him? Does a Thrust Kick provoke an attack of opportunity? What exactly do you mean by "increases the critical by two" - do you mean that his critical range on the attack roll increases, or that he does an extra 2 damage if he gets a critical hit, or what?

Instead of Axe Kick, it might be a good idea to just have Monk levels and Monk of Tied Hands levels stack for purposes of Stunning Blow DCs.

Since there are no rules for facing in 3.5 DnD, Backwards Kick does nothing as it is currently written. However, you could rewrite it to give the monk Uncanny Dodge or to give him an extra attack per round that he can only use against an opponent who is flanking him.

Flying Kick is really weak as written. Change it to -1 attack and +1d6 damage for every 1 or 2 meters he moves.

If I understand correctly, Wall Run just lets you use for Tumble skill in place of your Climb skill. Is that correct?

Ki Kick is good, and is definitely the strongest class feature.

2008-01-31, 08:43 PM
Ki Kick is good, and is definitely the strongest class feature.

Except that it's a low-DC Fort Save that a Monk won't get until Level 16. By then, most of the opponents you'll actually want to use it on will be passing the save on a two. Of course, if the Monk had the at-will ability to hit for half the opponent's HP that actually worked reliably, I'd probably cry "broken" anyways. Axe kick is a little better in terms of practicality and somewhat worse in terms of brokeness. Without any limitation, the Monk is theoretically capable of keeping several opponents stunned indefinitely. Of course, with that DC, in practicality he has very little chance of stunning a single foe for any amount of time.

While we're at it, the fluff for the class makes it especially difficult to envision, especially while keeping a straight face (imagine someone trying to dress themselves with their feet every morning, order a beer at a tavern, shake hands, feed themselves, lead any form of a normal life, etc). Those skill penalties to everything are brutal, and are going to make a weak class much weaker than it already is until 10th level (which still kinda sucks). Furthermore, how exactly do you expect someone to meet that prerequisite without the ability to use their feet for everything granted by the class?

Not to be harsh, but between awkward fluff, poor mechanics, and orientation towards the Monk class, I can't see anyone ever playing this.

2008-01-31, 09:06 PM
Thanks for the replies. To answer:
Class features are still unclear because, basically, they are just guidelines. I did't spend to much time to decide how they work, I just made the concepts and asked to you to know how I could fix them, make them clear, decide what conditions apply.
Maybe I should put limited times to use the abilities a day, and increasing them with the level.
The Flying Kick ability can be applied when you fall and if you jump directly to an opponent: I like it in this way.
I see that the backwards kick doesn't do anything: the flanking condition is better to make it work.
The Axe kick should be converted in the monk stunning blow, you're right.
Ki kick is kept weak with the DC because is really powerful, maybe too much: but I realize it's useless if everybody passes the saving throw: maybe I will raise the DC but make it a 1/day ability.

To answer to Voyager_1, I realize that by now is full of glitches, but I don't understand this:

"Furthermore, how exactly do you expect someone to meet that prerequisite without the ability to use their feet for everything granted by the class?"

I don't know, but think that if you stand somewhere, doing practically nothing, let's say in meditation in a cave, eating with your feet at -10 of penality, for a month, you can meet the prerequisite.

Anyway, keep giving me advices. I want to make it, if not good, at least playable.

2008-01-31, 10:39 PM
"Furthermore, how exactly do you expect someone to meet that prerequisite without the ability to use their feet for everything granted by the class?"

I don't know, but think that if you stand somewhere, doing practically nothing, let's say in meditation in a cave, eating with your feet at -10 of penality, for a month, you can meet the prerequisite.

Maybe, but this is a Prestige Class we're talking about. Unless you're starting at 7th level (since this class seems Monk-oriented), that's not just going to be a line in their character's background; they'll actually have to sit there for a month doing nothing worthwhile, while their friends dress them, bring them food, scratch their noses, and...um...provide *personal* assistance with hygiene following basic biological functions strongly associated with an integer between one and three...

...it ain't gonna be pretty, and many adventures don't give the players a whole month to sit out.

Also, I'd advise away from abilities that basically boil down to a coin flip between "Win" and "Lose", with no middle ground. If it's effective enough to work most of the time, then it's overpowered, while if it usually doesn't work, it's just frustrating and probably won't get used. Instead, give them a way to consistently deal reliable damage. While you're at it, write it as a replacement for the Monk class, because they suck anyways.

2008-01-31, 11:22 PM
How replace the special with: Has defeated a formidable foe in combat without using hands but only using physical attacks., Has jumped 8 feet high, or Has trained for 24 hours without pause on combat without hands.

Also, you might want to consider putting a headbutt, bite or knee attack in there somewhere.

2008-02-01, 06:34 AM
How about this:
raising the BAB bonus to the fighter one.
raising the unarmed damage progression.
an ability to throw or catch darts and arrows using his mouth.
making some abilities more powerful (ex. making the Axe kick effective, not just a copy of the Stunning Blow ability), or describe them better (ex. how far he pushes an enemy)
giving him the to use his abilities as a combo, during the same action (number of abilities per turn up to his Wis modifier)
adding a couple of abilities, like a Stomping kick for foes on the ground and an ability to jump over opponents, using them as trampolines
raising the DC of the ki kick, but making him usable just one time for day.
for the special requirement, while the one I put would seems to difficult or boring, the ones you said seem to easy. I see that living without using your hand looks almost impossible, but people live like an hermit, standing there almost motionless, in real life apparently. The point is not learn to use your feet (wich you do as soon as you take this class), but to unlearn to use your hands. If you don't, and do other (relatively) easy tasks with your feet, the requirement could be met.

Tell me what do you think and at wich level I have to put the new abilities.

2008-02-01, 07:24 AM
I can sort of see the concept behind this and is seems good, except for those things mentioned earlier. The mechanics also need to be fleshed out much more, and changed into a format resembling DnD. Correct me if I'm wrong but technically, in combat, a normal monk could do the fancy kicking stuff as he doesn't need to fight with his hands at all. He could very well smack people with his ears!

Something I noticed about the prerequisites; isn't the feat you're referring to Improved Unarmed Strike instead of Unarmed Strike? Also, I don't feel that you should put a limit on the number of times a day the Monk can use his abilities. Maybe per encounter? I just don't like the idea of making players save up uses for some special encounter, come on, you've tied your hands behind your back and now you want to put a check on your abilities? There are many more classes better than this so I don't think you need to worry too much about imbalance yet. Just put in everything you want to then refine it from there.

Edit: Instead of giving specific abilities, why don't you let the player pick abilities he wants, I think you don't want all of them to appear to be clones of each other, it's main appeal should be a new and interesting customizable fighting and playing style, everyone should have their own way of dealing with a personal handicap.

2008-02-01, 11:23 AM
Edited now. Fixed something, added new ideas, changed the ability progression.

2008-02-02, 12:37 AM
I think that, rather than give a progression in damage of the unarmed strikes of the monk, you should take into account the idea that people will be going into this class with different unarmed damage depending on their classes and levels. For example, a monk going into this class at level 6 will have a normal unarmed strike damage of 1d8, and will see one bump in die size. A monk going into this class at level 10 will have a normal unarmed strike damage of 1d10, and will therefore see no bump. A fighter with Improved Unarmed Strike will have a normal unarmed strike damage of 1d3, and will therefore see a bump of four die sizes.

For that reason, I think it instead makes more sense for the character to gain a certain amount of bonus damage which applies only to unarmed strikes made with the feet. Perhaps +1d4 at every even level, for a total of +5d4 at level 10.

For the styles:
Axe Kick: I like this style. I was worried at first that the chance of stunning on every hit would be too much, but then I realized that the save DC would be low enough that it would balance it out.
Backwards Kick: As it's described now, does that mean that every time it's hit by an opponent who is flanking it, it gets an attack of opportunity? I think that this style needs some more refining.
Counter Kick: So this is only usable against an unarmed opponent when that unarmed opponent misses? I think that this would be used about six times in a campaign ever unless it had a strong kung fu flavor to it.
Double Kick: I like the idea of the extra flurries and the image of the character spinning as one foot touches ground after a kick and the second rises to strike with the momentum of the spin. I dislike the fact that it doesn't mention whether the other styles stacked in with it hit home on the primary and secondary attack or if they only stack with the primary attack. That should be clarified in the text.
Flying Kick: I love it. A classic accuracy for damage, like an extra special power attack for the people who have to give up their arms.
Round Kick: Considering the amount of extra damage other attacks give, I think this is pretty well balanced. After all, it is the only kick that gives a bonus to accuracy.
Stomp Kick: Curb Stomp. It has a limited enough application that its power is balanced.
Thrust Kick: Does it increase the range or the multiplier by 2? Also, rather than pushing them back a specific amount, I think it makes more sense to allow them a free bull rush attempt. Also, getting a free bull rush and a free trip seems a little much, I suggest allowing them the free trip attempt only if they succeed with their free bull rush attempt.
Trip Kick: I thought it was underpowered compared to thrust kick at first and, as thrust kick is written, it is underpowered. But if you make the changed I suggested, I would say that the +4 bonus to trip balances it nicely.

Foe Jump: I think that the bonus it gives to the jump or tumble check should scale along with the distance fallen, like +2 per 10 ft fallen. Furthermore, does using them as a cushion make you take less damage from a fall than you normally would have? Also, does this grant you an immediate jump or tumble following landing? If not, why do you still get the bonus next round even if you get bull rushed off of the person, or the person gets up, or anything like that? This ability is very cool in concept, but it needs to be refined.

Wall Run: Most abilities of this nature require you to begin and end your turn on a horizontal surface. Does this? Also, it says nothing about what happens if you stop moving while on the wall. As it is written right now, they could just run part way up the wall, then stand there, sticking out of it for as long as they wanted.

That said, I really do think that this class looks very cool. I once played a monk who, through and interesting series of events, ended up with his hands burned off after a battle with a particularly nasty demon. I could definitely see a character choosing to enter this class for a reason such as that, or for no other reason than the coolness of "beating someone with BOTH hands tied behind my back."

2008-02-02, 07:47 AM
To jagadaishio: tanks for analizing the styles! Now to reply:

Backwards kick: The Monk of Tied Hands must be aware of the opponent that is flanking him. I see I din't specified this and I will edit it. This ability works, for example, when you're sorrounded and somebody attacks you from behind: you have a free attack and you don't need to move in the area (that would cause an attack of opportunity). It's obvious that if you're flanked by a rougue you have no clue of being there, this ability does not work.

Counter kick: Making this effective every time someone misses you is too much, so I make the unarmed attack miss prerequisite. This doesn't happen so seldomly as it would seem, but maybe I can make it more interesting raising the damage dealt.

Double kick: Every attack you could make. Let's say, at 5th level you can make 3 attacks, and you can double each ofthem. That would make 6 attacks (-2 roll each), even without adding the Flurry of blows. If you think that is too much, this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71108) says that a monk could make 26 attack per round, so this ability is not overpowering as it would seem.

Stomp kick: Seems limited, but use it with the Trip kick and see what I'm talking about.

Thrust kick: Increases the range by 2. But the bull rush attempt sure makes more sense, and I'm starting to consider an headbutt attack ability.

Foe jump: This is useful if you consider to fall from an high distance directly on someone face, or pass over an horde of attacking orcs litterally walking on them. Remember that, considering also Tumble and Balance checks, with this ability you almost don't take damage from a fall at all. (Maybe I should put the monk's slow fall ability.) Is the opponent your jumping on reacts in some way, your DM should consider a Balance check or else, depending on the case.

Wall run: This ability can be used just if you run and keep running over a surface. If you stop running in the following turn, or you're stopped by something else, you begin to fall. But if you're not disturbed by anything, you can even keep running on something forever, just like you're using a spider climb spell, with the differences I stated before. I'll edit it as soon as possible.

The key to use this class at his best is, in my opinion, to make combos. Trip kick, then stomp kick, wall run then foe jump on someone and flying kick antother one, thrust kick/axe kick/ double kick, backwards kick to the guy who's taking your back, foe jump on him and flying kick to the one on your front....
The reason I made this class was because I liked the concept (and the roleplay possibilities) and because I was sick of the repetitive I attack-You hit -Do damage in-game mechanics. If I wanted to beat somebody, I would like to do it cool!!!

2008-02-02, 07:56 AM
So this monk could just use any number of different kicks (if applicable) to a single attack?

2008-02-02, 08:47 AM
So this monk could just use any number of different kicks (if applicable) to a single attack?

No. He can use a fixed number of different kicks PER TURN. He can apply whatever kick he wants to an attack, then apply another to an another attack, until his natural attacks (read: actions given by the BAB value) lasts, or until he doesn't exceed his Wis modifier value considering the number of techiques he applies in one turn.
I have an BAB of +11/+6/+1. I can make three attacks. I can choose them to be techinques attack, and if make them Double kicks I have an attack bonus of +9/+9/+4/+4/-1/-1 in a turn, not considering Str bonuses or flurry of blows. BUT, if I have a Wis modifier of just +2 (wich is crappy, but consider this case) I can only use two techiques in the turn, and keeping to use the Double kick example, I can use it for the two of the three attacks, let's say the first two: le third should be a regular attack, not a technique.

2008-02-02, 03:27 PM
I must ask, was this class based on anything in particular?
I ask this because it seems very close to the fighting style of Regal from the game "Tales of Symphonia".

2008-02-02, 04:02 PM
I must ask, was this class based on anything in particular?
I ask this because it seems very close to the fighting style of Regal from the game "Tales of Symphonia".

Another one made me this question. As I told him, the concept came into my mind whitout any particular ispiration, and onestly I don't even know what the hell Tales of Symphonia is.
But, as soon as the class concept was made, I got a lot of ispiration from Taek Won Do techniques (you may recognize some of them) or classical kung-fu moves, and by some acrobatic moves or styles in games like Prince of Persia.

2008-02-03, 02:45 PM
Thank you very much for the edits and clarifications. I like this class very much. Though, you didn't address the discrepancies in unarmed strike damage, so I'm still curious about that.

2008-02-03, 04:02 PM
I think... That I enjoy this class... but before I would ever attempt to play it I would have to throw in the ability to use Mage Hand (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/spellsMtoO.html#mage-hand) as a spell-like ability without the requisite of pointing that the spell-fluff says. This would eliminate the goofiness factor. The Skill penalties would still be in place... but hey... at least the man can eat, wipe and dress himself without burdoning his party

Oh... and don't give it to them until second or third level if they got it by simply defeating a foe, and first level if they spent the month in training.

2008-02-03, 04:52 PM
Doubters should look up a video on Youtube about individuals born without arms. You would be surprised how easy it is to lead a fairly normal life using only your feet. Mage hand would really not be required.

2008-02-03, 05:40 PM
I think... That I enjoy this class... but before I would ever attempt to play it I would have to throw in the ability to use Mage Hand (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/spellsMtoO.html#mage-hand) as a spell-like ability

That would be in contrast with this total non-spellcaster class. But, I think that a magical object with Mage Hand spell charges could be useful to overcome the penalities, but that would be up to the player to get it. I don't see the need to make this a class ability.

2008-02-03, 08:24 PM
Though, you didn't address the discrepancies in unarmed strike damage, so I'm still curious about that.

I decided to keep whit the Monk progression (even if with some levels in advance) because is well balanced. A progression like the one you suggested (up to 5d4) seems the same thing, but I made the calculations and the average damage is too high. Of course this is a damage-dealing version of a Monk, but that would be too much. This PrC has a lot of possibilities to increase his damage. Boosting the base damage too high is not necessary.

Also, I noticed a lot of people across the board that say that Monks suck or they are underpowered. Onestly I don't understand that. I found the monk core class good for a lot of things and with good roleplay ideas.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-02-03, 09:24 PM
They're weaker in combat then a fighter. They may do more damage with their hands, but they are not strong in combat.

2008-02-03, 11:34 PM
Why don't you just say that class levels stack for such things as un-armed damage and AC bonus?
It clears up some things (Like what happens if a character comes into this class latter or after other PrC's).

2008-02-04, 03:50 PM
Probably the reason that this doesn't just stack with monk levels is that it is currently designed in such a way that a fighter or, really, any martial character who took Improved Unarmed Strike, would be able to take levels.

2008-02-05, 04:47 AM
I just googled for this "Regal" guy your are talking about. It came up this:


I wanted to clarify that I would never take inspiration by something like this. I like anime, a lot, but this is the kind of anime stuff I wish to be lesser of. I mean, he has BLUE HAIR AND A FANCY SHIRT.

Now, look at these guys istead:


That's what I'm talking about.

Shades of Gray
2008-02-05, 05:43 PM
I thought of this REALLY randomly.

Maybe after spending so much time using his feet, at level 10 his feet turn into hands, like a monkey!

2008-02-05, 05:47 PM
I thought of this REALLY randomly.

Maybe after spending so much time using his feet, at level 10 his feet turn into hands, like a monkey!

Ah ah! What the hell, no.
Do you mean that you already had something in mind that was similar to this class?