Roy and the Sword

[Chrismith]

I know that the Greenhilt sword is the link that allowed Eugene to appear to Roy, but Eugene didn't need it to actually manifest on the material plane -- we saw him trying to talk to Roy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0292.html) after the sword was broken. So the sword isn't what lets Roy visit the material plane, it's just necessary for anyone to be able to see or hear him. But how does that work? Will Haley need to be holding/wearing/touching the sword in order to talk to Roy? If so, how will he get her to pick it up? Or does the simple fact that it exists allow Roy to be seen by mortals?

[serpent615]

I think it's that it existing causes him to bee seen, not to be able to manifest. Eugene was unable to talk to him because it was broken, but was still able to be there even though it was.

[monty]

My guess would be that the current owner of the sword can use it. I would assume that Haley is currently in charge of Roy's stuff, so she should be able to talk to him.

[Half-blood]

A possibility is that He may manifest, but only with in a specific range of the sword.

[Raging_Pacifist]

Actually he was only able to appear cuz' he was summoned.

[factotum]

Actually he was only able to appear cuz' he was summoned.

Who? Roy certainly didn't summon Eugene when he was speaking to him back in the Dungeon of Dorukan.

[hajo]

I know that the Greenhilt sword is the link that allowed Eugene to appear to Roy, but Eugene didn't need it to actually manifest on the material plane -- we saw him trying to talk to Roy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0526.html) after the sword was broken.
#526 looks like a wrong image-reference ?

After the trial, Eugene told that he couldn't manifest (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0291.html) freely anymore after the sword was broken.
Now, if someone can explain the "normal rules for dead spirits" in D&D / OotS ?

[FujinAkari]

Now, if someone can explain the "normal rules for dead spirits" in D&D / OotS ?

I don't know that there is only ONE answer, but popular conception is that ghosts (which are what the manifesting rules come from) are dead souls that have not or cannot progress to the afterlife for various reasons, and thus remain in the Prime Material.

Obviously, this explaination excludes both Eugene and Roy from being traditional ghosts, and likely explain why both NEED the Greenhilt Sword in order to manifest.

[Raging_Pacifist]

In the dungeon he wasn't summoned he manifested through the sword so when it was broken he couldn't manifest to him any longer but when he appeared to them in AC a celestial was summoned and Eugene took his place.

[Mauve Shirt]

In the dungeon he wasn't summoned he manifested through the sword so when it was broken he couldn't manifest to him any longer but when he appeared to them in AC a celestial was summoned and Eugene took his place.

So? The sword isn't broken anymore. Roy SHOULD have been able to manifest through the sword, but obviously there was something else.

[Green Bean]

So? The sword isn't broken anymore. Roy SHOULD have been able to manifest through the sword, but obviously there was something else.

On the other hand, the sword was repaired by a mundane blacksmith, not someone who would be an expert in reforging magical links to beyond the grave.

[Lady Tialait]

The greenhilt sword was almost always touching Roy if not always when his father manafested, it's possable that you must touch the sword to see a greenhilt ghost..then again I beilve you have to touch the glass to see the monkies at the zoo..so what do i know?

[Chrismith]

#526 looks like a wrong image-reference ?

Yup, sorry. The comic I meant to link to was this one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0292.html).


The greenhilt sword was almost always touching Roy if not always when his father manafested, it's possable that you must touch the sword to see a greenhilt ghost..then again I beilve you have to touch the glass to see the monkies at the zoo..so what do i know?

Nope...in this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0015.html) he wasn't touching the sword the entire time, and in this one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0039.html) it doesn't appear to be anywhere near him.

[chibibar]

The ghosts are treated the same as undead. As per rule, well.... it all depend on your context :)

You have your Monster Ghost, these are unrest spirit that roam the prime material plane and haunt people. People can see these ghosts usually at night or special circumstances. You could also "bind" a spirit to a place to act as guards.

Eugene is a PC ghost. Generally to keep your ancestor from bugging you everyday (can you imagine that happening?) usually can only be communicate via special means. (summoning, commune, rituals etc etc) now... for the OoTS purpose the family sword allows family member to communicate with the wielder (note I use wielder)

Roy always have the sword with him. When the sword is whole, there is a possibility that a deceased family member can visit him, but when the sword is broken (stated in the comic) the link is broken and the spirit cannot communicate with the living (or manifest to be seen)

[Burley]

I, personally, would venture a guess that the sword acts as only half of the focus needed to manifest. I would say that the other half is the bloodpact.

Well, no...cause the the first manifestation, Eugene had his girlfriend with him.

Maybe it's all about actually knowing what you're doing?

[Quincunx]

Wouldn't it be, technically, Julia's sword now? It is still the Greenhilt heirloom.

[chibibar]

Wouldn't it be, technically, Julia's sword now? It is still the Greenhilt heirloom.

Technically, yes :) she is the last living descendant. Of course if Julia can use it or not is a totally different story (likely not since it is not part of the weapon specialization she can take)

[Green Bean]

Technically, yes :) she is the last living descendant. Of course if Julia can use it or not is a totally different story (likely not since it is not part of the weapon specialization she can take)

Julia would still be able to use it despite being non-proficient; it's just a -4 penalty. Admittedly, that's fairly significant with her Wizard BAB, but is she really going to be swinging around when it's only necessary to carry it?

[Raging_Pacifist]

Julia would still be able to use it despite being non-proficient; it's just a -4 penalty. Admittedly, that's fairly significant with her Wizard BAB, but is she really going to be swinging around when it's only necessary to carry it?

If attacked she may attempt it; "As a 4th lvl wizard I attack you with this great sword at a -4 penalty, AND NAT 20!! WOO-HOO!

[Mauve Shirt]

Uh-oh. A wizard poking things with a stick? Eugene's head would explode.

[SteveDJ]

Nope...in this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0015.html) he wasn't touching the sword the entire time, and in this one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0039.html) it doesn't appear to be anywhere near him.

Wait a minute! Look again at that second link (comic 39) - Roy can SEE his dad's DATE! There's no relationship tie-in there, and the sword wouldn't be the key, either.

So, there may yet be hope that Roy can be seen by Haley, he just has to figure out how.

[Raging_Pacifist]

That is interesting I have not noticed that until now. Hmmm makes you wonder if Giant did that a to see if we'd notice it this far on.

[David Argall]

Wait a minute! Look again at that second link (comic 39) - Roy can SEE his dad's DATE! There's no relationship tie-in there, and the sword wouldn't be the key, either.

So, there may yet be hope that Roy can be seen by Haley, he just has to figure out how.

Definitely a point, but if Roy could not see dad's date, we have the odd scene of Roy seeing his dad hold hands with ...nothing and talking to nobody. It sounds more reasonable that once Roy could see any, he could see them all.

[Green Bean]

Of course, if you wanted an even more far-fetched theory, you could say that it's the Starmetal that's doing it. After all, if it disrupts the undead, it could also screw with the genuinely dead.

[TorJin]

I think it may be an issue of ownership, a similar issue that cropped up in the afterlife with Roy. Roy doesn't have the Greenhilt sword in the afterlife because he thinks of it has his grandfather's; in the same vein, Haley still thinks of the Greenhilt sword as Roy's, so Roy might not be able to manifest properly to her.

[Raging_Pacifist]

Of course, if you wanted an even more far-fetched theory, you could say that it's the Starmetal that's doing it. After all, if it disrupts the undead, it could also screw with the genuinely dead.

Actually that's not so far-fetched, it sounds pretty solid.

[Roderick_BR]

I don't know that there is only ONE answer, but popular conception is that ghosts (which are what the manifesting rules come from) are dead souls that have not or cannot progress to the afterlife for various reasons, and thus remain in the Prime Material.

Obviously, this explaination excludes both Eugene and Roy from being traditional ghosts, and likely explain why both NEED the Greenhilt Sword in order to manifest.
Oh, I got it now. See, Eugene, and now Roy, are NOT ghosts. They don't follow D&D rules for ghosts. They are not "trapped" in the material plane, they have no special powers, and can't manifest. They are simple spirits that should be in the upper planes. Just because they died, doesn't mean they automatically become actual ghosts, because ghosts are undead, and Roy is "only" dead. In D&D, not all spirits become ghosts. It would be annoying to have to "re-kill" that group of orcs after you killed their bodies...

Now, why a person using their family's sword can see them, that may just be some particular ability of the sword.

[Raging_Pacifist]

I believe that the sword is just a focus to manifest by. I think that there are other circumstances as to who can see him.

[vikinglief]

Or perhaps :haley: just doesn't have a strong enough connection to :roy: ...
See hints of what I'm getting at in latest comic (#528)

[Raging_Pacifist]

Or perhaps :haley: just doesn't have a strong enough connection to :roy: ...
See hints of what I'm getting at in latest comic (#528)

We pretty much all know now that Haleys doesn't have a strong enough connection if your up to date on the comic.