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shadow_archmagi
2008-02-01, 04:42 PM
1. Would a few levels of monk benefit a caster? It seems to me that bonus AC, bonus reflex and will saves, and bonus movement speed are all things that casters like. Plus it'd allow him to do unarmed combat, making him even MORE like batman.

2. Monks would work GREAT as NPC assassins. They move fast, climb walls, don't need or use any eqiupment. Commoners not paying their taxes? Have someone quivering palm them and threaten to make their heads explode in a week if they don't pay up.

Solo
2008-02-01, 04:46 PM
1. Would a few levels of monk benefit a caster? It seems to me that bonus AC, bonus reflex and will saves, and bonus movement speed are all things that casters like. Plus it'd allow him to do unarmed combat, making him even MORE like batman.


Thou shalt not sacrifice caster levels!

Woot Spitum
2008-02-01, 04:48 PM
1. Not really. Giving up caster levels is too big a hit. The other way around, however...a few levels of caster (probably followed by taking levels in Sacred Fist, or a similar prestige class) is of great benefit to a monk.

2. Not better than a warlock or a druid, neither of which require equipment, and both of which have abilities (wild shape, various invocations) that let them get around physical obstacles even easier than a monk.

EDIT: Ninja'ed by Solo!

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-02-01, 04:48 PM
As a dip for Druids, 1 level can be good. Clerics generally prefer armor, but it's a (somewhat unoptimized) possibility, especially if you're VoP. And I always figured on rogues for assassins, monks for spies. After all, they can't kill anything, but they don't need weapons, have the social skills, and can survive and escape with the intel, which is all you need spies to do. After all, monks are only useless in a group, where escaping alone will piss your friends off.

Tengu
2008-02-01, 04:51 PM
Monk is a guy who lives in a monastery, copies hand-written manuscripts, farms vegetables, wakes up early in the morning and has a funny hairstyle. Eastern-inspired martial artists are Swordsages.

sonofzeal
2008-02-01, 04:57 PM
Monks also work awesomely with Rogues, especially in gestalt. The Rogue side gains the ability to be a much more durable front line fighter, and Stunning Fist + Flurry + Sneak Attack = win.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-02-01, 05:01 PM
Monks also work awesomely with Rogues, especially in gestalt. The Rogue side gains the ability to be a much more durable front line fighter, and Stunning Fist + Flurry + Sneak Attack = win.No. That's Rangers you're thinking of. Barbarian/fighter//rogue would be even better, though.

AKA_Bait
2008-02-01, 05:02 PM
1. Not typically. However, I have seen some Ur-Priest builds that make good use of a dip into monk.

2. Woot Spitum is right. My personal favorite assassins are Warlock/Rogue or Warlock/Ninja. Seak eldrichblast!


Monk is a guy who lives in a monastery, copies hand-written manuscripts, farms vegetables, wakes up early in the morning and has a funny hairstyle. Eastern-inspired martial artists are Swordsages.

Alas, what you describe is close to a cloistered cleric (sometimes referred to in the real world as a monk) than a D&D monk.

Tengu
2008-02-01, 05:10 PM
Alas, what you describe is close to a cloistered cleric (sometimes referred to in the real world as a monk) than a D&D monk.

Unfortunately, the cloistered cleric does not have an Engage In Homosexual Acts In Order To Obtain A Rare Book class feature. Cookie for reference.

mostlyharmful
2008-02-01, 05:11 PM
1. Meh. Just buy monks belt, wildling clasp with that one rocks hard

2. Caster makes an even more kickass assassin. Teleport, wildshape, invis, divination effects, enchantment effects, etc, etc, etc..... How are you going to assassinate a Wizard that got access to Genesis? How are you realistically going to stop Batman or CoDzilla?

AKA_Bait
2008-02-01, 05:14 PM
How are you realistically going to stop Batman or CoDzilla?

AMF?

Note: He's still right about casters being better assassians.

sonofzeal
2008-02-01, 05:22 PM
No. That's Rangers you're thinking of. Barbarian/fighter//rogue would be even better, though.
That works too, but then you lose Stunning Fist, which is a great way to incapacitate people while you're Flurry-sneaking them.

Indon
2008-02-01, 05:22 PM
Monks also work awesomely with Rogues, especially in gestalt. The Rogue side gains the ability to be a much more durable front line fighter, and Stunning Fist + Flurry + Sneak Attack = win.

Monks work with everything in gestalt. Even Swordsage.

I daresay they're one of the best gestalt compliment classes. Factotum is pretty good, too, though.

Greenfaun
2008-02-01, 07:32 PM
Unfortunately, the cloistered cleric does not have an Engage In Homosexual Acts In Order To Obtain A Rare Book class feature. Cookie for reference.

In the name of the Rose?

Chronos
2008-02-01, 08:57 PM
That works too, but then you lose Stunning Fist, which is a great way to incapacitate people while you're Flurry-sneaking them.Just a reminder: You can only use Stunning Fist once per round. So it doesn't really combine well with Flurry of Blows (or other things which increase your number of attacks).

Theli
2008-02-01, 09:04 PM
Eh, use it on your first attack...then if it works they're stunned for the rest of your attacks... That seems to combine well enough for me.

Uthug
2008-02-01, 09:13 PM
1. Would a few levels of monk benefit a caster? It seems to me that bonus AC, bonus reflex and will saves, and bonus movement speed are all things that casters like. Plus it'd allow him to do unarmed combat, making him even MORE like batman.

2. Monks would work GREAT as NPC assassins. They move fast, climb walls, don't need or use any eqiupment. Commoners not paying their taxes? Have someone quivering palm them and threaten to make their heads explode in a week if they don't pay up.

First things first, a caster could do the above with spells that have decent durations, about enough to move in and assassinate someone. For movement, why not just use Phantom Steed or some low level spells that buff movement? Why dump Caster Levels to get a class feature that doesn't advance that fast anyway?

Secondly, isn't Quivering Palm a 1/week ability? And at what level does the monk get it? 15? I don't think you'll be able to persuade a guy who has spent most of his life training to threaten and extort money out of a commoner who hasn't paid his taxes.

No insult intended to the OP.

Tengu
2008-02-01, 09:14 PM
In the name of the Rose?

http://www.joetheprogrammer.net/images/clarecookies120306.jpg

Uthug
2008-02-01, 09:16 PM
Is that even a cookie? Looks more like some hard cake :D

Solo
2008-02-01, 09:18 PM
AMF?


Prismatic Sphere

A simply fabulous spell.

Tengu
2008-02-01, 10:24 PM
Is that even a cookie? Looks more like some hard cake :D

Silence, the cake is a lie. These are cookies on a plate, freshly out of the oven.

Indon
2008-02-01, 10:50 PM
Just a reminder: You can only use Stunning Fist once per round. So it doesn't really combine well with Flurry of Blows (or other things which increase your number of attacks).

You can use it twice per round with a feat. Don't remember what it is, sadly...

Zincorium
2008-02-01, 10:58 PM
You can use it twice per round with a feat. Don't remember what it is, sadly...

Rapid stunning.

Sir Giacomo
2008-02-02, 04:38 AM
Prismatic Sphere

A simply fabulous spell.

But not against someone grappling you :smallbiggrin:

- Giacomo

Kurald Galain
2008-02-02, 05:03 AM
1. Would a few levels of monk benefit a caster?
No, because there many better options available. Many casters can use at least light armor, which already is more bonus AC than the monk is going to give; reflex saves aren't important; will saves are already high for all casters; and for movement speed, we have a plethora of spells at our fingertips. If a caster wants unarmed combat, he summons something to do it for him.



2. Monks would work GREAT as NPC assassins.
So, you're saying that the reason the monk is such a great class is because it can defeat a Commoner. Wow, color me impressed. Note, however, that the monk tends to be less effective than the Adept and Expert, which are also NPC classes.

Kurald Galain
2008-02-02, 05:11 AM
Monks also work awesomely with Rogues, especially in gestalt. The Rogue side gains the ability to be a much more durable front line fighter, and Stunning Fist + Flurry + Sneak Attack = win.

Or, the rogue could gestalt with some actual combat class, like oh say anything with d10 hit points and a full BAB. That does a lot more for his durability and to hit chance. Alternatively, the rogue could gestalt with any class that has attack spells (or invocations, a Warlock's blast is a touch attack) since they stack with sneak attack. All of those work much better than the poor li'l monk.

Note that stunning fist doesn't combo with flurry to begin with (you can only use it once per round) and that comboing anything at all with flurry presupposes that you're going to get full attacks, which isn't all too likely.

shadow_archmagi
2008-02-02, 08:55 AM
So, you're saying that the reason the monk is such a great class is because it can defeat a Commoner. Wow, color me impressed. Note, however, that the monk tends to be less effective than the Adept and Expert, which are also NPC classes.

Not only that, but defeat a commoner with style. It has just the right flavor for it too. I think the guy in Assassin's creed took a few levels of monk, what with the climbing and the jumping and all.

Tengu
2008-02-02, 01:12 PM
Monks aren't the only class that can perform fantasy parkour, you know.