Imperial Cadre vs. Space Marines

[Emperor Tippy]

1 company of Imperial Cadre from In Fury Born by David Weber against 2 companies of Ultramarine Space Marines from Warhammer 40K.

Neither side gets heroes and the Space Marines get no psykers (because I don't want to deal with them).

Environment: An abandoned city. 500 square miles in size. Both groups are placed randomly and not within 100 miles of each other.

Information known to each side: That an enemy force at least potentially equal to them in capabilities is located somewhere in the city and that said group represents a direct threat to the Emperor (both sides have emperors). This is a death match.

The Cadre is in heavy weapons configuration.

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I personally see the Cadre winning because of superior armor and information gathering capabilities. The stealth systems are a big point in their favor as well.

[Eita]

In Fury Born is that one one with a female marine or something, right?

Also, if the Cadre is in heavy weapons configuration, doesn't that mean they don't get 'ZOMG! STEALTH!' :smallconfused:

[Emperor Tippy]

In Fury Born is that one one with a female marine or something, right?
Yeah.


Also, if the Cadre is in heavy weapons configuration, doesn't that mean they don't get 'ZOMG! STEALTH!' :smallconfused:
No. They get the stealth stuff still, it's just that they don't try to be strategically stealthy.

They still get the reactive camouflage and the ECM and all the other stealth stuff. They just get plasma cannons, hyper velocity weapons (rocket launcher with a kiloton yield), and heavy gatling guns.

[Eita]

Then the Ultramarines bring in their scouts.

[Emperor Tippy]

Then the Ultramarines bring in their scouts.

They only get 200 people total and no psykers or heros. But the Ultramarines can have as many of their 200 people be scouts as they want.

[Eita]

Eh. What about vehicles? Tech-marines aren't counted as one of 1000 (just look at the Apocalypse Company Pack. Scouts have their own separate company, but tech-marines don't).

[Emperor Tippy]

No vehicles for either side. Mainly because I don't know what if any non space craft the Cadre uses vehicle wise.

[puppyavenger]

No vehicles for either side. Mainly because I don't know what if any non space craft the Cadre uses vehicle wise.

Devastaters?, Teminaters? Dreadnauts? you have to give the SM something.

[Eita]

Devastators are SM heavy weapon squads, Dreadnoughts are walkers, and Terminators are SM in heavy armor.

You didn't really mention any Space Marine vehicle. At all.

[Emperor Tippy]

Devastaters?, Teminaters? Dreadnauts? you have to give the SM something.

Why? Regular space marines aren't tough enough? :smallbiggrin:

Terminators and Dreadnoughts are allowed. In the usual numbers (not sure exactly what those numbers are but I don't believe they field whole companies of them).

[Selrahc]

Why? Regular space marines aren't tough enough? :smallbiggrin:

Terminators and Dreadnoughts are allowed. In the usual numbers (not sure exactly what those numbers are but I don't believe they field whole companies of them).

A chapter normally has about 20 Dreads. And about 50 or 60 Terminators. A notable number of chapters have entire first companies made up of terminator armed individuals, while some newer chapters have barely enough suits to deploy a squad.

[Eita]

Alright then. Let's pull out the all-stars. First Company Ultramarines, pre-Tyranids. Those were some badass guys. And, any era Second Company with an Honor Guard in every squad.

[Selrahc]

Alright then. Let's pull out the all-stars. First Company Ultramarines, pre-Tyranids. Those were some badass guys. And, any era Second Company with an Honor Guard in every squad.

Pfah.

Go Dark Angels. Deathwing First Company backed up by Ravenwing Second company.

[Eita]

We're stuck with the SMurfs according to the OP.

I'm also hating this minute waiting period...

[Emperor Tippy]

A chapter normally has about 20 Dreads. And about 50 or 60 Terminators. A notable number of chapters have entire first companies made up of terminator armed individuals, while some newer chapters have barely enough suits to deploy a squad.

Ok.

Then a max of 50 Terminators and 20 Dreadnoughts but the Cadre get mortars as well then.

[Selrahc]

We're stuck with the SMurfs according to the OP.

Oh. Darn .

[Emperor Tippy]

You can use the First and Second companies of the Dark Angel's instead if you want.

But in my opinion Terminator Armor does not give immunity to Cadre heavy weapons.

[Lord Iames Osari]

Do the Space Marines have anything that can match the effects of the tick?

[Meshakhad]

They don't.

Also, even the Space Marines don't have any way to match the Cadre's sheer eliteness.

I'm betting on the Cadre here.

[Krrth]

The Space Marines are simply out teched here. They may have terminator armor, dreads and such. The Cadre has....implanted personal shields, the Tick ( for those who don't know, it's a drug that speeds up reaction time and perception), powered armor to which they are linked (like the space marines), but unlike the space marines, they also have an AI (to which they are also linked) helping them out.

[Lord Iames Osari]

Wait - do all Cadremen have linked AIs, or was that just Alicia?

[Emperor Tippy]

Wait - do all Cadremen have linked AIs, or was that just Alicia?

Well all of them are synth-linked with their armor/weapons and in a free flowing tac link with every other Cadre member in the area that is administered by some pretty good expert systems. It's at the point where they "feel" electromagnetic radiation and the like.

[Lord Iames Osari]

Oh, that's right. It's been a while since I've read the book.

[Emperor Tippy]

Oh, that's right. It's been a while since I've read the book.
Yeah. I got bored the other day and reread it. Then I started thinking about how they would stack up against other sci-fi universe. And since we have had so many IoM vs. threads they seemed like a good benchmark. I decided to go for the Cadre against the Space Marines because in space it comes down to how brutal the Empire is willing to be.

What does a SLAM missile do to a star? :smallbiggrin:

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But anyways I think I'm supporting the Cadre as well. They are just better in all the ways that matter. I mean the Space Marines are better physical specimens (Cadre members don't spit acid :smallamused: ) but that doesn't really matter because the Cadre will be in power armor. And they have a lot better armor, and tactics better fitted to their tech.

[Deadmeat.GW]

As long as they can keep out of arms reach the Cadre should whup the marines, if they make the mistake of getting in close however...

A point blank melee range the marines will take down the cadre quite likely due to superior melee weapons on the units given, terminators and similar first company guys will have a lot of power weapons that can squish tanks.

As for the marines...don't forget they have the same type interlinked comms and imagery displays as we are talking the SMurfs here and they did not loose this kind of tech.
Oh, and no, the heroic poses without helmets are not the standard for Smurfs, Space Wolves do take helmets of to use their supernatural physical senses (and accidently they are missing the hud-uplinks in their helmets the Smurfs have).

Don't forget that Sm's are used to fighting against opponents that have faster reflexes then themselves.
The Cadre will however be somewhat shocked at the amount of punishment a SM takes before going down.

Not that it would not win if it can keep the range open (and with their armour capabilities and normal tactics they should normally do so) but if they get too close the SM's are going to provide some schocking evidence of why they are feared in the 40K universe.

The Cadre is like SAS on steroids with bells and whistles, think SM's special forces companies/chapters like Deathwatch or Legion of the Damned.
A fifty-fifty odds fight would be Deathwatch or Legion of the Damned versus Cadre.

Don't forget that SM's do actually have access to combat drugs.
It is just not standard practise to use them.
Slaught and the like would be pretty close to Tick for the SM's and due to their metabolisms they would be able to handle the disadvantages of using the stuff (or even ignoring completely).

In this scenario I would give it to the Cadre in 75-25 % win/loss.

3 out 4 would be wins.

[Selrahc]

Don't forget that SM's do actually have access to combat drugs.
It is just not standard practise to use them.
Slaught and the like would be pretty close to Tick for the SM's and due to their metabolisms they would be able to handle the disadvantages of using the stuff (or even ignoring completely).

That, and they're naturally substantially faster than humans anyway.