Highest AC at level 1?

[Lolzords]

Lets see, I've spent most of today in my room listening to smash mouth and trying to complete Call of Duty 4 on Veteran mode. (Only just finished act 1, gah.)

Anyway, my challenge, I want to see what's the highest you can get your AC at ECL 1.

ECL 1 so people can't say "well he get's +20 natural armour bonus to AC, it's got a stupidly high LA, but technically he's only got one class level."

Leik, go.

[Ryuuk]

Hmm at level 1 I would say a Kobold Wizard. AC could be something like:

10 + 1 small size + 1 Natural Armor + 4 Mage Armor spell + 4 Shield spell + Dex (no point buy was specified, but it's at least +1 due to racial mods)

So 20 + Dex for a minute a day.

[J.Gellert]

Off the top of my head...

Halfling wizard
10 +5 (dex) +1 (size) +4 (mage armor) +4 (shield) +1 (Luck of Heroes feat) +4 (Tower Shield) +2 vs evil (Protection from alignment) +2 (Reduce person)... 33 total vs evil (or good, whatever you like). But I bet there are more obscure spells one could use.

[Chronos]

How much wealth are we allowed? And is anyone else allowed to help out (casting both Barkskin and Mage Armor on someone, for instance)?

[tyckspoon]

Kobold (Nat armor +1, Size +1, Dex at least +1) Spellcaster (Sorcerer fits the fluff best) using Mage Armor and Shield (+8 combined armor/shield bonus) gets AC 21 easily, and probably has a few points higher Dex. Take Dodge for 22 against 1 enemy. If you prefer armor, scale mail and heavy shield are tolerably affordable and get you 2 less than the spells, although the armor caps your Dex. Being a Halfling instead drops the Natural Armor, but in return you don't have to be a Kobold.

[Ecalsneerg]

Off the top of my head...

Halfling wizard
10 +5 (dex) +1 (size) +4 (mage armor) +4 (shield) +1 (Luck of Heroes feat) +4 (Tower Shield) +2 vs evil (Protection from alignment) +2 (Reduce person)... 33 total vs evil (or good, whatever you like). But I bet there are more obscure spells one could use.

Those shields aren't stacking

[J.Gellert]

Oh, true that. But there must be a spell for natural armor somewhere...

[FlyMolo]

My Arena character Irind has 20 AC. Light armor, no shield, and no spells. Plus DR 3/bludgeoning. With heavy armor and a shield, that's another 8 or so, and barkskin and Mage armor provide what? +8? so that's 36, plus a tower shield, equals god knows what.

[Project_Mayhem]

Warforged Wizard with adamantine body, shield, mage armour, reduce person, protection from ___, and if it stacks with shield, a tower shield

10+ 8(armour) + 1(dex) +4(magearmour) + 4(shield) +2(reduce person) +2(protection from __) +4(towershield)

=35

this is just with core and eberron, i'm sure with splat books you can further cheese it

[tyckspoon]

Warforged Wizard with adamantine body, shield, mage armour, reduce person, protection from ___, and if it stacks with shield, a tower shield

10+ 8(armour) + 1(dex) +4(magearmour) + 4(shield) +2(reduce person) +2(protection from __) +4(towershield)

=35

this is just with core and eberron, i'm sure with splat books you can further cheese it

Mage armor and shield do not stack with mundane armor and shields. Also, an Adamantine Warforged Wizard carrying a tower shield (doesn't stack, just use Shield instead) has a pretty bad spell failure chance, which makes that inadvisable for anything except pure theory work.

[Worira]

Mage armour doesn't stack with warforged plating, and Shield doesn't stack with shields.

[Enguhl]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a slight build
Kobold wins. 10 + 5 dex + 4 size (slight build, reduce person)+ 1 nat + 4 (mage armor) + 4 (shield)
28 total (granted, its only for a little while)

[Glyde]

My first level warforged fighter got pretty damn high at times. Adamantite plating, shield, optimized dex bonus and fighting defensively <3

[Blackadder]

Oh yes if you want to throw in defensive fighting you could break AC-30 with ease with a full-plate Kobold. Ahh good times

[Gardakan]

10+1(Size)+5(Dex)+3(Studded Leather)+4(Tower Shield)+1(Combat Expertise)+1(Dodge).

25 in all time... full defense 29... my little halfling warrior...

[The_Blue_Sorceress]

Oh yes if you want to throw in defensive fighting you could break AC-30 with ease with a full-plate Kobold. Ahh good times

Yeah, but who has full plate at ECL 1?

-Blue

[Skjaldbakka]

Maybe if you get your Craft up high enough, you could afford it . . . going to crunch numbers now

[Nebo_]

10+1(Size)+5(Dex)+3(Studded Leather)+4(Tower Shield)+1(Combat Expertise)+1(Dodge).

25 in all time... full defense 29... my little halfling warrior...

Fail. Tower Shields have a max Dex of +2.

[Theodoxus]

Human Sorc w/ VoP and 2 flaws to gain VoNonViolence & VoPeace

10 +4 (dex) + 4 (Mage armor) +4 (Shield spell) +4 (VoP bonus) +6 (VoPeace)

for a total of 32... sure, you can't hurt anyone, but there's a very good chance they won't be hurting you either...

[Snadgeros]

Make it a gestalt monk or swashbuckler too for wis or int bonuses to AC. Throw in the dodge and combat expertise feats too for good measure.

[Zincorium]

Human Sorc w/ VoP and 2 flaws to gain VoNonViolence & VoPeace

10 +4 (dex) + 4 (Mage armor) +4 (Shield spell) +4 (VoP bonus) +6 (VoPeace)

for a total of 32... sure, you can't hurt anyone, but there's a very good chance they won't be hurting you either...

Mage armor and VoP bonus don't stack, VoP specifically states so.

Seriously people, is a simple check to determine the validity of your entry too much to ask? Half the people who've posted seem to have forgotten the basics of stacking effects.

[mockingbyrd7]

Nobody said anything about equipment or cost restrictions. :smallamused:

As others have said, Kobold Wizard. 10 + 13 (+5 Mithril Full Plate) +3 (Dex) + 9 (+5 Mithril Tower Shield) + 2 (Protection from Evil) + 2 (Reduce Size) +1 (Dodge) +1 (Cloak of Protection) +1 (Natural Armor) = 42 Armor.

I'm sure I botched something or did something illegal, but if not, COOL!

Also, where does it say that Shield and Mage Armor can't be used in conjunction with shields and armor? It doesn't seem to say that here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shield.htm) or here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mageArmor.htm).

If I'm correct that Shield and Mage Armor stack with shields and armor, we're up to 50. (Ah, if only there were an evil grin smiley more malevolant than this: :smallamused:)

[MisterSaturnine]

They don't stack because they add the same bonus. Shield (the spell) adds a +4 deflection bonus, and shields add another deflection bonus. Mage Armor adds +4 armor bonus, and armor adds another armor bonus. No two kinds of bonuses stack, you just take the highest value.

[Bauglir]

Mage Armor provides an Armor bonus to AC. Shield provides a Shield bonus to AC. Mundane armor provides an Armor bonus to AC. Mundane shields provide a Shield bonus to AC. Allow your knowledge of stacking effects to go from there.

EDIT: ninja'd

[John Campbell]

Shield provides a shield bonus to AC, just like mundane shields. Mage armor provides an armor bonus, just like mundane armor. Except for dodge bonuses, AC modifiers of the same type do not stack. Only the largest one applies.

[Firefingers]

Read here for stacking from SRD

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#stacking

Stacking
In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack (combine for a cumulative effect) if they come from different sources and have different types (or no type at all), but do not stack if they have the same type or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession). If the modifiers to a particular roll do not stack, only the best bonus and worst penalty applies. Dodge bonuses and circumstance bonuses however, do stack with one another unless otherwise specified.

Armor Bonus
An armor bonus applies to Armor Class and is granted by armor or by a spell or magical effect that mimics armor. Armor bonuses stack with all other bonuses to Armor Class (even with natural armor bonuses) except other armor bonuses. An armor bonus doesn't apply against touch attacks, except for armor bonuses granted by force effects (such as the mage armor spell) which apply against incorporeal touch attacks, such as that of a shadow.

Mage Armor

An invisible but tangible field of force surrounds the subject of a mage armor spell, providing a +4 armor bonus to AC.

Unlike mundane armor, mage armor entails no armor check penalty, arcane spell failure chance, or speed reduction. Since mage armor is made of force, incorporeal creatures can’t bypass it the way they do normal armor.

Focus
A piece of cured leather.

as you can see it gives an armor bonus that will not stack with another armor bonus such as a suit of armor of any sort same rules apply to shield


Edit: triple ninjaed :(

[Nebo_]

Nobody said anything about equipment or cost restrictions.

As others have said, Kobold Wizard. 10 + 13 (+5 Mithril Full Plate) +3 (Dex) + 9 (+5 Mithril Tower Shield) + 2 (Protection from Evil) + 2 (Reduce Size) +1 (Dodge) +1 (Cloak of Protection) +1 (Natural Armor) = 42 Armor.

I'm sure I botched something or did something illegal, but if not, COOL!

Also, where does it say that Shield and Mage Armor can't be used in conjunction with shields and armor? It doesn't seem to say that here or here.

If I'm correct that Shield and Mage Armor stack with shields and armor, we're up to 50. (Ah, if only there were an evil grin smiley more malevolant than this: )

It always bewilders me, the sheer amount of people who simply don't know the rules. That's the third person in this thread alone who thinks that mundane armour and shields stack with the spells. Oh, and I see you've ignored WBL, how nice.

[ImperiousLeader]

Halfling Totemist 1
Feat: Expanded Soulmeld Capacity
Soulmeld: Wormtail Belt with ESC

AC = 10 + 1 (size) + 3 (DEX) + 2 (Shield) + 4 (Scale Armour) + 4 (natural Armour) = 24

I'm assuming you roll high enough to afford scale armour at level 1, not an easy feat with the Totemist. However, dropping to hide armour will cost you only 1 point of AC.

[McMindflayer]

Kobold Monk (assuming 18,16,14,12,10,8)

10(base)+4(Wis)+4(Dex)+1(Natural armor+1(size)+2(Shield of Faith) = 22

If He has freindly caster allies, He can get an addition +4(Mage Armor)+4(Shield)+2 (Proc Whatev)=32

Also, Barkskin is a level 2 spell, so you wouldnt' have access to it at level 1. Shield of faith is a potion that costs 50 gold, Wizard can get it as well, unless he puts all his money into his spellbook.

If you want to add more, There's Entropic Shield that will give 20% miss chance to ranged attacks, Obscuring mist makes everybody have 50% miss chance(If I remember correctly.) Sanctuary forces opponents to make a will save to attack you, (though you can't attack), And heck, for fun, toss out a silent image of yourself, which, as per DM fiat, can confuse stupid enemies.

I would have used Reduce person, but that is not a first level spell and cost 250 gold for a potion, and Monk's don't start with that much gold. Heck, nobody, at max wealth, has 250 (The highest is 240)

edit: I almost forgot that Kobolds get the +2 to dex, thus increasing my 16, to another 18.

[Talic]

Goblin, 20 Dex, Studded Leather Armor, Heavy Wood Shield Fighter with Dodge and Mobility.

10 + 1(size) + 2 (Armor) + 2 (Shield) + 5 Dex = 20 (18 touch, all the time)

21 on dodge, 25 mobility.

Caster Variant:

Goblin Wizard, 20 Dex, 14 int

10 + 1(size) + 4 (Shield Spell) + 4 (Mage Armor) + 5 (Dex) = 24 AC (24 Touch)

With the dodge feat, that could be up to 25 against one foe.

Also, note for you caster builders... Enlarge and Reduce Person do not work on non-humanoids. This includes Kobolds and Goblins.

[Jack Zander]

Personally, I would assume maximum WBL, whatever stats you need for the build (this is all theoretical stuff, we are just asking what is possible, not what is likely) but I'd say no caster friends. Not only could you assume a 20th level caster friend, but I think I'd be more interesting to see which class and race alone can give you the highest AC.

And then I'm going to play that as my next character.

[Xaros]

One could always go binder, taking Improved Binding at first level, and then binding Savnok. He gives you MW full plate for +8, and then put a 12 or 13 into Dex for a total of 19. Then equip a shield if you're willing to take the penalty to attack rolls.

[Talic]

Is 24 the highest so far?

[Enguhl]

Is 24 the highest so far?
Not sure about permanent, but I got 28 not counting full defense and using only one splat (a races web addition by wizards) and still being effective (ie: not wearing full plate or carrying tower shield as a caster...)

[Zincorium]

Not sure about permanent, but I got 28 not counting full defense and using only one splat (a races web addition by wizards) and still being effective (ie: not wearing full plate or carrying tower shield as a caster...)

26, not 28. Slight build doesn't make you a size smaller for AC/to hit bonuses, anymore than powerful build makes you larger for the same, and tiny is only +2.

@ Talic:
Kobolds and goblins are humanoids. They just have subtypes, which aren't relevant to reduce person

[Hecore]

Kobold Psion (20 Dex, 14 Int - 25 point buy)

+10 Base AC
+5 Dex Bonus
+1 Nat. Armor
+1 Size Bonus
+1 Precognition, Defensive
+1 Dodge (Situational)
+4 Force Screen
+4 Inertial Armor

So either 26 or 27 AC.

[Bag_of_Holding]

Warforged Scout Psion Egoist 1

Dex 20/Int 16 (possible with at least 26 points)

Mithral Body feat

Thicken Skin + Force Screen + Defensive Precognition

Total defence action

Also, assuming average starting gold (75gp for psion), buy a dorje of deflection field with only 1 charge left (15gp)

10 + 1 (size) + 5 (armour) + 5 (dex) + 1 (enhancement, TS) + 4 (shield, FS) + 1 (Insight, DP) + 4 (deflection, df) + 4 (dodge, total defence) = 35


Right, 31 to 35 depending on whether you allow Total Defence action or not.


Edit: initially, I was planning to use a dorje of Animal Affinity with 1 charge left to boost Dex to 24, but wearing Mithral Plate limits the dex bonus to AC.

Edit2: for those who aren't familiar with MM3, Warforged Scout is the name of a race, not warforged with levels in Scout class.

[shaggz076]

Take a Halfling (FR varient that gets bonus feat at lvl 1) fighter with the Craft armor skill. Dex 20 (18+2 racial) +5, Size +1, Dodge feat +1, Breastplate armor (Crafted by him) +5, Tower Shield (Crafted by him + tower shield prof) +4, Base ac bonus 10 = 26 ac

[Ecalsneerg]

Kobold Psion (20 Dex, 14 Int - 25 point buy)

+10 Base AC
+5 Dex Bonus
+1 Nat. Armor
+1 Size Bonus
+1 Precognition, Defensive
+1 Dodge (Situational)
+4 Force Screen
+4 Inertial Armor

So either 26 or 27 AC.

Remember the first-level bonus feat. Psionic dodge'll up that to 28 against one foe while focussed.

[Hecore]

Remember the first-level bonus feat. Psionic dodge'll up that to 28 against one foe while focussed.

Regretfully it won't work - I have three power points and I need to cast 3 powers, which means that I can't remain psionically focused (as casting will tap out all of my points.)

[Enguhl]

26, not 28. Slight build doesn't make you a size smaller for AC/to hit bonuses, anymore than powerful build makes you larger for the same, and tiny is only +2.

@ Talic:
Kobolds and goblins are humanoids. They just have subtypes, which aren't relevant to reduce person

Sorry, you're right, it's only for opposed checks. But throw in dodge and its 27.

[UserClone]

Actually, Slight Build does make you a size smaller for attacks/AC. Whenever a kobold is subject to a size modifier OR special size modifier for an opposed check (such as Hide), the kobold is treated as one size smaller if doing so is advantageous to the character.

Edit: Therefore, 10+4size(reduce person)+4mage armor+4shield+5dex+1 natural+1 dodge=29(not bad for a mage)

[Enguhl]

Actually, Slight Build does make you a size smaller for attacks/AC. Whenever a kobold is subject to a size modifier OR special size modifier for an opposed check (such as Hide), the kobold is treated as one size smaller if doing so is advantageous to the character.

Edit: Therefore, 10+4size(reduce person)+4mage armor+4shield+5dex+1 natural+1 dodge=29(not bad for a mage)

Well I'll be darned, wrong about being wrong :smallfrown: . Methinks more sleep would be good.

[mockingbyrd7]

It always bewilders me, the sheer amount of people who simply don't know the rules. That's the third person in this thread alone who thinks that mundane armour and shields stack with the spells. Oh, and I see you've ignored WBL, how nice.

Would you care to enlighten me as to how I've broken the rules rather than cutting me down with an elitist comment?

As others have explained, I now see why Mage Armor and Shield don't stack with armor and shields. I'm assuming WBL has something to do with the powerful items I used. Please show me where it says I cannot do that, and I'll gladly listen.

I thoroughly apologize for not being a DnD guru before daring to show my face in this thread.

[kamikasei]

Would you care to enlighten me as to how I've broken the rules rather than cutting me down with an elitist comment?

As others have explained, I now see why Mage Armor and Shield don't stack with armor and shields.

Uh, he did so. Right there in the bit you quoted, pointed out that you were treating the spells as stacking with the equipment.

[Solo]

Outsider (With feat or Planetouched) Wizard + Precocious Apprentice (Alter Self) = Dwarven Ancestor (+16 Natural AC)

That's a good way to start off.

After that, just cast Mage Armor and put a few points into Dex and you'll have, what, an AC of at least 30?

[Fenix_of_Doom]

As others have explained, I now see why Mage Armor and Shield don't stack with armor and shields. I'm assuming WBL has something to do with the powerful items I used. Please show me where it says I cannot do that, and I'll gladly listen.

It's on the first page of the equipment section of your local players handbook, unfortunately I can't provide a SRD link as it isn't OGL material.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Since noone is using feats, with 2 flaws, you can add Sacred Vow, VoP, and Vow of non-violence, which give a total +10 to ac for most of these builds, which are featless.
Smell that gouda. :smallbiggrin:

[Signmaker]

Since noone is using feats, with 2 flaws, you can add Sacred Vow, VoP, and Vow of non-violence, which give a total +10 to ac for most of these builds, which are featless.
Smell that gouda. :smallbiggrin:

Wrong.

Anyways, I think we've come across an issue or few.

First off, Stats. Could we please get some standard as to stat generation?

Second, Wealth. A standard wealth (Max of class, mid, etc.) is going to be needed.

Third, Stacking. LEARN HOW TO STACK. Please, you're only spamming and making yourself foolish if you don't verify your data.

Fourth, Timing. I believe the best way to determine AC is to first have 'normal' AC, without defense options, and an optional subcategory for defensive options. Make sure this subcategory is noted, for general ease.

Lastly, spells. I don't have an opinion on whether or not magic/psionics should be a factor, but to be nice to those that do have an opinion, if magic/psionics is not the focal source of AC, have two versions presentable: One with casting, one without.

Hopefully these issues can be clarified.

[mikethepoor]

The highest I can see, with just basic equipment and no feats/buffs/other actions, is 22. +5 from chain mail, +4 from a tower shield, +2 from maximum Dexterity bonus, and +1 from size. If someone can go higher than that, in Core, with the above restrictions, I'd love to see it.

[Signmaker]

23, if you add the Kobold's Nat armor? =P

[mikethepoor]

23, if you add the Kobold's Nat armor? =P

Right, I forgot about that. Thanks!

[TheThan]

Small Fighter:
Full plate +8, +1 max dex bonus,+1 size +4 tower shield
24 ac all day long.
(edit)
oh and +1 from dodge, pushes it up to 25 vs a single target.
+1 from combat Expertise gives you 26 against one target

core only baby with no magic gear.

[Worira]

And you have full plate at level one how? This applies to any builds that included full plate, by the way.

[Signmaker]

Assuming the most basic core:

Looking solely at the PHB, the best AC bonus you can get from Armor/Dex combined is a +8 at 1st level wealth. Breastplate, Chain Shirt, fill in Dex.

Topping on a Tower Shield at this point is okay, but you'd be restricted to Breastplate for any real advancement in AC (Compared to your other shield choices)

The other option, if allowed, is the Shield spell, which grants Tower Shield's AC bonus without the Dex restriction.

Therefore, as a 'shell' for the PC, using only gp and stats, we get:

10 + 5 (Breastplate) + 2 (Dex) + 4 (Tower Shield) = 21 AC

Or if Spells are allowed:

10 + 5 (Breastplate) + 3 (Dex) + 4 (Shield) = 22 AC

Throwing in Natural Armor/Size of a Kobold, AC 24 without feats, or special options.

[TheThan]

And you have full plate at level one how? This applies to any builds that included full plate, by the way.

Didn’t see the restriction on money.



But anyway this character has a long and rich history of soldiers. One of his ancestors was a famous adventurer and warrior. When he retired he decided pass down his old suit of plate mail to his son, as a family heirloom. So it got passed down from father to son for a few generation until if was passed on to the character above. He’s always been enamored with adventuring and combat in general. When he decided to take up adventuring, his choice of armor was a natural one.

oh wait, i take it i don't get any bonuses for Role playing do I?

[Signmaker]

No, you don't.

"He was orphaned as a child and was raised by a pack of wild campfires" does not mean you can cast fireball as an X level Wizard, 1/day.

[AlterForm]

And you have full plate at level one how? This applies to any builds that included full plate, by the way.

What if you played a wizard and sold your spellbook?

Even with just the PHB, and a 16 INT, you're looking at:



19 cantrips
+ 6 1st levels
----------------
25 pages of spells
x 50 gp/page
----------------
1250 extra gp

[Worira]

But anyway this character has a long and rich history of people who stand in front of siege engines. One of his ancestors was a famous adventurer and M1 Abrams Main Battle Tank. When he retired he decided pass down his old suit of +5 mithral plate mail, +5 mithral tower shield, +5 amulet of natural armour, and +5 ring of protection to his son, as family heirlooms. So they got passed down from father to son for a few generation until they were passed on to the character above. He’s always been enamored with adventuring and standing in front of siege engines in general. When he decided to take up adventuring, his choice of armor was a natural one.

See why it doesn't work so well?

[mikethepoor]

What if you played a wizard and sold your spellbook?

Even with just the PHB, and a 16 INT, you're looking at:



19 cantrips
+ 6 1st levels
----------------
25 pages of spells
x 50 gp/page
----------------
1250 extra gp


Yeah, that's still not enough for full plate, and you just screwed yourself out of spells. Kinda makes people think your WIS is about 4.

[Jack Zander]

Who would buy your spellbook anyway? Every wizard will already have all those 0-level spells, and if they don't, they can't cast them anyway. You might be able to sell the first level ones though.

[Solo]

Who would buy your spellbook anyway?

Apprentice wizards?

[Baron Corm]

Wrong.

Why?

You don't even need flaws; a human with Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty can use his exalted bonus feat to get Vow of Peace. That there is +12 stackable armor (+6 VoPeace, +4 VoPoverty, +2 synergy from VoPeace), though you lose out on a kobold's +1 size and +1 natural armor, so it's more like adding +10 to any of these builds.

Edit: Okay, so he was a little wrong, and I was a little wrong too. You would need 1 flaw for this to get Vow of Nonviolence. Still adds +10 AC though.

[Jack Zander]

Apprentice wizards?

Instead of copying the 0-level spells from their master's spellbook? Where are they going to have that kind of money anyway?

[tyckspoon]

Why?

You don't even need flaws; a human with Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty can use his exalted bonus feat to get Vow of Peace. That there is +12 stackable armor (+6 VoPeace, +4 VoPoverty, +2 synergy from VoPeace), though you lose out on a kobold's +1 size and +1 natural armor, so it's more like adding +10 to any of these builds.

Edit: Okay, so he was a little wrong, and I was a little wrong too. You would need 1 flaw for this to get Vow of Nonviolence. Still adds +10 AC though.

A Strongheart Halfling also gets a bonus feat while keeping the Size and Dex bonus. You get a good AC out of that, but you're also an Exalted 1st level Vow of Poverty/Vow of Peace character, which isn't something I can in good conscience recommend.

[Solo]

Instead of copying the 0-level spells from their master's spellbook? Where are they going to have that kind of money anyway?

Well, come to think of it, a beginner wizard doesn't have to have a master.

I could play a PC in a border village, who never encountered a magic user in his life, serves as a Fighter in the local militia, and make him into an Eldritch Knight by deciding that he has intellect sufficient enough to master - to some degree - the arcane arts.

That's just one example of someone who would buy a spellbook.

Or something.

[AlterForm]

Yeah, that's still not enough for full plate, and you just screwed yourself out of spells. Kinda makes people think your WIS is about 4.

Alright, adding splatbooks and an 18 INT



19 Core Cantrips
+ 1 Complete Arcane Cantrip
+ 9 Spell Compendium Cantrips
+ 3 Ghostwalk Cantrips
+ 4 Book of Vile Darkness Cantrips
+ 7 first level spells
---------------------------
39 pages
x 50 gp per page
---------------------------
2150 gp + WBL


Tada, you now have enough for Full Plate, and a Tower shield, with extra gp. Subtract 50 gp if you take a race that doesn't give an INT bonus.

Buy yourself, say, a scroll of Blur (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blur.htm) or Invisibility (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibility.htm) or even Blink (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blink.htm) for misschance percentages. Other useful scrolls include Reduce Person and Protection from X. You could also just buy a new, smaller spellbook.

Full Plate, Tower Shield, DEX 13, Scroll of Reduce Person, Scroll of Protection from X, Scroll of Blink, Dodge.

10 + 8(armor) + 4(shield) + 2(DEX) + +2(Deflection) + 1(Size) + 1(Dodge)=

28 AC

Add Kobold for an extra 2 AC (+1 size, +1 NA) to get 30.

Now hire a cleric to cast Magic Vestment (30 gp x CL) at CL 12 (30 x 12 = 360 gp) on your armor for a +3 EB.

You now have 33 AC, 50% misschance, and pocket change. :smallbiggrin:

Does Wizzie McPawnabook still have a WIS of 4? :smallamused: IMO, it's like 6 now. 'Cuz he just spent his entire WBL and spellbook to have 0 BAB, crap for skills, no proficiencies, and 30 ish AC for a single encounter.

[tyckspoon]

Full Plate, Tower Shield, DEX 13, Scroll of Reduce Person, Scroll of Protection from X, Scroll of Blink, Dodge

10 + 8(armor) + 4(shield) + 2(DEX) + +2(Deflection) + 1(Size) + 1(Dodge)=

28 AC

Add Kobold for an extra 2 AC (+1 size, +1 NA) to get 30.

Now hire a cleric to cast Magic Vestment (30 gp x CL) at CL 8 (30 x 8 = 240 gp) on your armor for a +2 EB.
You now have 32 AC, 50% misschance (which could be considered +10 AC), and 5 gp of pocket change. :smallbiggrin:

Does Wizzie McPawnabook still have a WIS of 4? :smallamused:

Well, since he had to spend enough points to somehow get a 20 Int from a race that doesn't have an Int bonus, has a severe Str penalty, and is wearing full plate and carrying a tower shield.. yeah. He's a munchkin and he probably can't move under his own power. Also, he has a 35% spell failure to use the scrolls while wearing the plate.. if he doesn't wear the plate to use the scrolls, then he has to take 4 minutes to put the armor back on, by which time most of his spells have expired. Yeah. Genius there.

[Chronos]

You can do better than that. Before you sell your spellbook, prepare Shield out of it. It'll stay prepared indefinitely, until you cast it. That'll save you the cost of the tower shield. You don't need to buy scrolls; you can just pay NPC spellcasters to cast all of the buffs on you, which should be cheaper (and also avoid the arcane spell failure). And you could also hire a druid to cast Barkskin on you.


yeah. He's a munchkinAbsolutely. But if we're looking for the theoretical maximum here, then whatever wins is going to be munchkinny in some way or another.

[Neek]

Stacking is listed in the SRD. It's OGL content, seeing that it has a lot to with the crunch in the game. It's listed right here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#stacking).



An armor bonus applies to Armor Class and is granted by armor or by a spell or magical effect that mimics armor. Armor bonuses stack with all other bonuses to Armor Class (even with natural armor bonuses) except other armor bonuses. An armor bonus doesn't apply against touch attacks, except for armor bonuses granted by force effects (such as the mage armor spell) which apply against incorporeal touch attacks, such as that of a shadow. "

This isn't an attempt to be condescending or snarky. I just want to make sure we're all on the same page, and we're all giving ourselves correct information.

I noticed someone was asking for some assumptions. So, let's assume elite array then: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. If you use splatbooks, please to be citing them.

[Edit] Stupid post and preview key being, like, right next to each other.

[tyckspoon]

You can do better than that. Before you sell your spellbook, prepare Shield out of it. It'll stay prepared indefinitely, until you cast it. That'll save you the cost of the tower shield. You don't need to buy scrolls; you can just pay NPC spellcasters to cast all of the buffs on you, which should be cheaper (and also avoid the arcane spell failure). And you could also hire a druid to cast Barkskin on you.

Absolutely. But if we're looking for the theoretical maximum here, then whatever wins is going to be munchkinny in some way or another.

Fair enough. Somebody had mentioned intending to play a character from this thread, however, which leads me to try and work out builds that are sustainable and preferably use entirely their own renewable resources; blowing all of your WBL in order to have a high AC for only the first fight you ever get into isn't a good recipe for surviving a campaign.

[AlterForm]

Wasn't the point just to get AC as high as possible? I'll agree Wizzie sure as hell ain't playable. And I only though of the kobold bit as I was typing him up; I'll update the calculations. Although...

Full plate + Tower Shield = 95 50 lbs. x3/4 for small size = 71.25 37.5 lbs
He'll need STR 13 8 to carry that (x3/4 encumbrance values for small creatures)
With -4 STR, he'll have to PB a 17 12 STR; as well as his 18 INT.
That takes 29 20 points. So he needs 20-pt buy or better to not be heavily encumbered. That's most point-buy games, right?

He could get around the ASF problem by hiring a spellcaster to cast those spells as well, I suppose. Heck, at 50 gp for each of the 1st levels (CL 5) and just 150 gp for the blink, the whole shebang actually comes out cheaper that way. Still only lasts 5 rounds though.

[EDIT]: Wow, triple-ninja'd.

[EDIT2]: Nice idea Cronos! Lessee, not buying a tower shield saves 30 gp.



2150 gp
- 1500 gp [full plate]
----------------------
650 gp
- 2 x (10 x 5) [1st level spells]
----------------------
550
- (30 x 8) [Magic Vestment, CL 8]
----------------------
310 gp
- (30 x 5) [Blur]
----------------------
160 gp
- (20 x 6) ([Barkskin, CL 6]
----------------------
40 gp leftover, plus WBL
- 50 gp [Psionic Tattoo of Precog. Defensive]
----------------------
WBL - 10 gp


AC:

10 + 10(armor) + 4(Shield) + 2(DEX) + 3(Natural Armor) + 2(Deflection) + 2(Size) + 1(Dodge) +1(Insight)=

35 AC for about 5 rounds, with 50% misschance. :smallbiggrin: *Prays he didn't mess something up*

[Bag_of_Holding]

Okay, here's the second update of my 'build'

original one

Warforged Scout Psion Egoist 1

Dex 20/Int 16 (possible with at least 26 points)

Mithral Body feat

Thicken Skin + Force Screen + Defensive Precognition

Total defence action

Also, assuming average starting gold (75gp for psion), buy a dorje of deflection field with only 1 charge left (15gp)

10 + 1 (size) + 5 (armour) + 5 (dex) + 1 (enhancement, TS) + 4 (shield, FS) + 1 (Insight, DP) + 4 (deflection, df) + 4 (dodge, total defence) = 35



Warforged Scout Psion Egoist 1

Dex 20/Int 16 (possible with at least 26 points)

Mithral Body feat

Thicken Skin + Force Screen + Defensive Precognition

Items:
buy a dorje of deflection field with only 1 charge left (15gp)
a psionic tattoo of compression (50gp)
hire a 6th-level spellcaster to cast Barkskin (6x20=120gp) [thanks Alterform]

10 + 2 (size) + 5 (armour) + 5 (dex) + 1 (enhancement to Armour, TS) + 4 (shield, FS) + 1 (Insight, DP) + 4 (deflection, df) + 3 natural (enhancement to NA; BS)= 35


If done within the normal wealth limit, it will still be 32, no problem.

If flaws are allowed, I'd take Sacred Vow-Vow of Poverty and Vow of Peace (VoP bonus feat) to gain +2 NA, +2 deflection, +6 exalted to the total instead of +4 deflection (dorje) + 1 size (compression) +3 NA (barkskin).

10 + 1 (size) + 5 (armour) + 5 (dex) + 1 (enhancement to Armour, TS) + 4 (shield, FS) + 1 (Insight, DP) + 2 (deflection, VoPc) + 2 natural (VoPc) +2 exalted (VoPc) + 4 (VoP; stacks with VoPc) = 37

Very nice. Since you can still 'accept' buffs from your 'allies', if you can get that +3 enhancement to NA bonus from Barkskin, it can sore up to 40.

[Jack Zander]

I noticed someone was asking for some assumptions. So, let's assume elite array then: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8.

Why would you assume that? The OP asked for the highest AC possible, not the highest AC probable. These are all theoretical builds. Assume they happened to roll whatever they needed to.

[Ted_Stryker]

23, if you add the Kobold's Nat armor? =P
24, if the Kobold takes Improved Natural Armor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#improvedNaturalArmor) as a feat. :smallbiggrin:

[Jack Zander]

24, if the Kobold takes Improved Natural Armor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#improvedNaturalArmor) as a feat. :smallbiggrin:

...I have an urge to play a kobold fighter who takes only this feat every chance he can get...

[Talic]

...I have an urge to play a kobold fighter who takes only this feat every chance he can get...
Assuming 2 Flaws:

At the following levels, assuming a Dex of 20, Leather armor, heavy shield, and only those feats:

Level 1: Improved Nat Armor (1, 2, 3, 4) AC: 25
Level 2: Improved Nat Armor (5)
Level 3: Improved Nat Armor (6)
Level 4: Improved Nat Armor (7) Dex +1
Level 6: Improved Nat Armor (8, 9)
Level 8: Improved Nat Armor (10) Dex +1
Level 9: Improved Nat Armor (11)
Level 10: Improved Nat Armor (12) AC: 34
Level 12: Improved Nat Armor (13, 14) Dex +1
Level 14: Improved Nat Armor (15)
Level 15: Improved Nat Armor (16)
Level 16: Improved Nat Armor (17) Dex +1
Level 18: Improved Nat Armor (18, 19)
Level 20: Improved Nat Armor (20) AC 42. Dex +1

This is not including magic items. Assuming a +5 shield, +5 ring of protection, Replace leather armor with Bracers of Armor +8, Tome of Dex (+5)and Amulet of Natural armor +5, your total AC at level 20 would be:

10 + 1 (Size) + 8 (armor-bracers) + 5 (deflection-ring), + 7 (shield), +26 (Natural), +10 (Dex) = 67 AC.

[Fenix_of_Doom]

Assuming 2 Flaws:

At the following levels, assuming a Dex of 20, Leather armor, heavy shield, and only those feats:

Level 1: Improved Nat Armor (1, 2, 3, 4) AC: 25
Level 2: Improved Nat Armor (5)
Level 3: Improved Nat Armor (6)
Level 4: Improved Nat Armor (7) Dex +1
Level 6: Improved Nat Armor (8, 9)
Level 8: Improved Nat Armor (10) Dex +1
Level 9: Improved Nat Armor (11)
Level 10: Improved Nat Armor (12) AC: 34
Level 12: Improved Nat Armor (13, 14) Dex +1
Level 14: Improved Nat Armor (15)
Level 15: Improved Nat Armor (16)
Level 16: Improved Nat Armor (17) Dex +1
Level 18: Improved Nat Armor (18, 19)
Level 20: Improved Nat Armor (20) AC 42. Dex +1

This is not including magic items. Assuming a +5 shield, +5 ring of protection, Replace leather armor with Bracers of Armor +8, Tome of Dex (+5)and Amulet of Natural armor +5, your total AC at level 20 would be:

10 + 1 (Size) + 8 (armor-bracers) + 5 (deflection-ring), + 7 (shield), +26 (Natural), +10 (Dex) = 67 AC.

Nice idea, but I'm pretty sure Improved Nat Armor isn't listed as a fighter bonus feat.

[WhiteHarness]

Any small race, level 1 Knight (PHB 2)

10+1(size)+5(breastplate)+3(dex)+2(heavy shield)+1(shield specialization)+1(dodge)=AC23

It gets even better at level 2, since you could conceivably have full plate and the Knight's shield block class ability kicks in.

[Jalor]

I have a high AC build somewhere. It was a playable character, so it never got this high, although it did hit about 67 in the epic levels. I'll see if I can remember more about it, besides what I just mentioned here.

[Jack Zander]

There is a duelist build that breaks AC 70, but it's pretty sucky aside from that and playing one up until that point would be one of the most ineffective character ever (just like all optimized builds for a certain level).