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raistlin807
2008-02-02, 09:11 PM
Does anyone know if a Mercurial fullsword is real, and if so would it require 2 exotic weapon proficiencies to use? Thanks for your input.

EagleWiz
2008-02-02, 09:14 PM
Large Mercual "Hand-And-A-Half" sword. There is another name but its probably stared out.

raistlin807
2008-02-02, 09:16 PM
but can I just take exotic weap prof large mercurial fullsword? or do I need to sink two feats?

Illiterate Scribe
2008-02-02, 09:28 PM
I know that this isn't exactly what you're looking for, but the ultimate melee weapon is probably the elven courtblade for it's bigger crit-range 18-20 vs. the Merc. blade's 19-20, which you pile on keen and a ton of crit-activated enhancements. Also, remember that Kaorti resin gives a x4 crit multiplier.

Quellian-dyrae
2008-02-02, 09:30 PM
By the RAW, there's a mercurial greatsword and a mercurial longsword statted as far as I know. There's also a fullblade. These are each different weapons. What must be remembered is that "mercurial" is not an enhancement to an item the way adamantine or cold iron is*.

A mercurial greatsword sized for a Large creature would combine both the fullblade's base damage (actually, I think a little better...I think 2d6 sizes up to 3d6) and the mercurial greatsword's crit multiplier. To wield it as a Medium character, you would need Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Mercurial Greatsword) and either the Powerful Build ability or Monkey Grip and all its limitations.

The two exotic weapon proficiency feats is a logical idea, though, and one you certainly may wish to consider asking your DM.

*Information is somewhat out of date so if things have been changed just ignore me.

Parvum
2008-02-02, 09:31 PM
Fullsword? You mean bastard sword for large characters that for no reason has a seperate proficiency? But mercurial?

To the extent of my knowledge, no weapons exist which require seperate proficiencies. That would be silly. You can have fullbade proficiency, or mercurial fullbade proficiency.

EDIT: God damn ninjas.

The_Blue_Sorceress
2008-02-02, 10:04 PM
You're not really getting ahead using a fullblade, even a mercurial one, if such a thing exists (which as others have pointed out, I don't think it does.) You've already got a penalty using a fullbalde as a medium character (unless you're not medium, and then I think the fullblade is statistically the same as a large greatsword, so why not just use one of those?)

I tried the fullblade once. It was flavorful for my character, and when I hit, I hit hard, but I almost never hit, so it would have been better to just use a greatsword.

If you're really set on using a mercurial fullblade, I'd say that it's just one feat. The mercurial fullblade is just one weapon, so you should need just one feat.

Good luck,
-Blue

raistlin807
2008-02-02, 10:12 PM
Ahh, such lament. I don't have a great many books in my possession. So what would a good 2 handed weapon be then? I was apparently mistaken in thinking that one sword existed. I thought there was a variant of the greatsword that did d8's in damage and had a higher crit range. :-p

Sucrose
2008-02-02, 10:18 PM
Frankly, the greatsword is a "good two-handed melee weapon." It also doesn't require another feat for most fighter types, so you can specialize in whatever fighting style you prefer more with it than some exotic weapon.

If you don't want to specialize, you could always just take Improved Initiative, and thereby get another strike per battle.

raistlin807
2008-02-02, 10:29 PM
How does one gain another attack from Improved Initiative? I thought it just gave you a +4 bonus, have I been living in a fantasy world? Please enlighten me?

kjones
2008-02-02, 10:33 PM
Normally:

They attack, you attack, they attack, you attack, they die.

With Improved Initiative:

You attack, they attack, you attack, they die.

Not literally an extra attack, but there you go.

raistlin807
2008-02-02, 10:40 PM
So are you refering to the attack in a suprise round? Or was that earlier post just a mistake?

kjones
2008-02-02, 10:40 PM
Normally:

They attack, you attack, they attack, you attack, they die.

With Improved Initiative:

You attack, they attack, you attack, they die.

Not literally an extra attack, but there you go.

kjones
2008-02-02, 10:42 PM
Normally:

They attack, you attack, they attack, you attack, they die.

With Improved Initiative:

You attack, they attack, you attack, they die.

Not literally an extra attack, but there you go.

raistlin807
2008-02-02, 10:46 PM
Sorry for the repeat posts, my computer is jerking me around. I am not notmally that rude. Thank you all for the advice.

ZekeArgo
2008-02-02, 10:52 PM
Mercurial is actually from the 3.0 Arms and Equipment Guide. Isn't treated as a weapon augmentation, but a separate exotic weapon all together

Sucrose
2008-02-02, 10:53 PM
Yeah, kjones is expressing my point pretty well.

I've just found that going early in initiative to be the virtual equivalent of another attack, and Improved Initiative helps a lot with that.

AslanCross
2008-02-02, 11:55 PM
Fullsword? You mean bastard sword for large characters that for no reason has a seperate proficiency? But mercurial?

To the extent of my knowledge, no weapons exist which require seperate proficiencies. That would be silly. You can have fullbade proficiency, or mercurial fullbade proficiency.

EDIT: God damn ninjas.

Although the Fullblade is basically an large-sized bastard sword (2d8), a large character wouldn't need a proficiency for it. A large character would need a proficiency feat to wield a 3d8 damage fullblade, however.

Anyway, Mercurial isn't an enchantment. It's a funky way to build a weapon: You have a hollow channel inside the weapon connected to a bulb of mercury in the hilt. Swinging it causes the weight of the weapon to shift towards the tip, making for a more mass behind the actual damage-dealing edge. One could possibly homebrew a mercurial fullblade, and since exotic proficiencies usually suck, I wouldn't mind putting it all in one feat.

raistlin807
2008-02-03, 12:02 AM
Argh, anyone know the stats for the Fullblade? Or, barring that, what book it's in?

Zincorium
2008-02-03, 12:21 AM
Argh, anyone know the stats for the Fullblade? Or, barring that, what book it's in?

Arms and equipment guide. It's 3.0 but since most of it hasn't been updated it's still valid for the most part.

AslanCross
2008-02-03, 12:56 AM
The only thing that should change is the deal about weapon sizes. It's basically "a bastard sword for the next size category." A medium fullblade can't be wielded by a medium character at all without the EWP, while a large character can wield it as a martial weapon in two hands, or in one hand as an exotic weapon. A large character would be wielding a bastard sword for a huge creature, etc.

kemmotar
2008-02-03, 01:08 AM
actually, a dip in master of masks(from complete scoundrel)there is a mask that grants you proficiency with all exotic weapons...thus solving the EWP problem...

the_tick_rules
2008-02-03, 01:54 AM
the ultimate melee weapon is a vorpal weapon in the hand of a greater god. well maybe not ultimate but it's right up there.

Nerd-o-rama
2008-02-03, 03:14 AM
I always preferred the Halberd, actually. Trip weapon, swappable damage type, two-hander, settable. Mediocre damage die, but if it had reach like it ought to, it'd be perfect.

Alternatively, there's the Falchion, for when you just have to have a 30% critical hit rate.

Sure, you can go for base damage. But when Thog Power Attack for 4d6+167 damage, does it really matter?

Yami
2008-02-03, 03:30 AM
I myself prefer daggers. Sure, you could wield some whacked out oversized weapon, and look good doing it.

But it really grates on the NPC's when they're taken out by a goblin with a dagger. v^_^

Base damage should be chump change. At low level's it'll probably be of some import, but by level 5 you should be looking for getting the most you can out of your weapon, and base damage isn't it. Reach, tripping capacity, etc.. these are worth more than an extra d6, or other small bump. As for extended crit range, I'll admit, I like it in concept. But it is a fickle thing, and has never helped me out when actually applied.

By the way, I beleive the ultimate weapon is the Greathorn Minotaur Warhammer. That they built right. And then proceeded to lay down some silly rule abut not allowing the PC's to have it, because it's just that good.

I still say go dagger. It's useful in grapple!

Nerd-o-rama
2008-02-03, 03:35 AM
Yes, daggers are by and large the best light-weapon sidearm you can get. Great for cutting your way out of monsters with Swallow Whole.

Oh, and if you're arming a horde of peasants or clerics, you can't go wrong with morningstars (backed up by longspears). Morningstars are a heck of a weapon for simple weapon proficiency.

Zincorium
2008-02-03, 03:39 AM
I still say go dagger. It's useful in grapple!

Not just that, actually. Daggers have the greatest synergy of any weapon with the possible exception of unarmed strike.

They're light weapons, piercing and slashing damage, and you don't need martial weapon proficiency to use them. They're finessable, which means they work with swashbuckler's insightful strike, they're shadow step weapons, so shadow blades can use them, they're the primary weapon of invisible blades (best combat rogue class in existence), they can be used for dervish due to slashing damage, you can throw them, and they can work with all of the above options in a single build if you do it right.

Daggers also are a common weapon in non-rolled treasure troves, if only because they're one of the few weapons that immediately spring to mind.

kemmotar
2008-02-03, 03:55 AM
Well...id say unarmed strike...it's damage scales nicely with feats and monk levels...you just need to go 8 levels of monk, or some PrC that gives you monk abilities for a few levels. Impr natural attack, superior unarmed strike and a goliath and you got best base damage in the game in a single weapon. no need for profs, usable in a grapple, can do subdual or lethal...

plus you can trip and disarm with it, you can take knockdown(if your DM allows it, from sword and fist) free trips whenever you deal more than 10 damage. with 4d8+str that's not very difficult...plus buff str and get an amulet of mighty fists, or jsut some gloves with enhancement to unarmed strike and you're set...

Plus you never lose an action to draw your weapon..there's also an interesting feat in sword and fist i think that lets you convince the other that you are unarmed and they therefore do not use their full strength or something like that...

Also monks are fun! you can get on everybody's nerves upholind the law!

Talic
2008-02-03, 05:01 AM
Heavy pick. Every character should have one. It's small, easy to handle, and....

Well, you don't need a proficiency to make a coup de grace.

AslanCross
2008-02-03, 05:22 AM
I always preferred the Halberd, actually. Trip weapon, swappable damage type, two-hander, settable. Mediocre damage die, but if it had reach like it ought to, it'd be perfect.

Alternatively, there's the Falchion, for when you just have to have a 30% critical hit rate.

Sure, you can go for base damage. But when Thog Power Attack for 4d6+167 damage, does it really matter?

Although I've never been a fan of polearms, I always thought the halberd was awesome. It's just too bad that it doesn't have reach.

Caracol
2008-02-03, 05:32 AM
I would go with spiked chain. Not so bad for damage, good reach, and with Improved Disarm and Improved Trip you can really make the difference.
Plus, it's cool.

Lolzords
2008-02-03, 05:37 AM
There's a weapon somewhere, Arms and Armour I think, that has a weapon called the Widowmaker.

Two handed weapon 1d12 x4 damage.

AslanCross
2008-02-03, 05:37 AM
I would go with spiked chain. Not so bad for damage, good reach, and with Improved Disarm and Improved Trip you can really make the difference.
Plus, it's cool.

Don't forget that it works with both Weapon Finesse and Power Attack.

Bag_of_Holding
2008-02-03, 05:54 AM
You're not really getting ahead using a fullblade, even a mercurial one, if such a thing exists (which as others have pointed out, I don't think it does.)

All hail Google! http://stormkeep.tripod.com/armory.htm

It has the stats for Fullblade from Sword and Fist. Obviously a 3.0 material.:smallwink:



Am I... too late?

shaggz076
2008-02-03, 05:55 AM
plus you can trip and disarm with it, you can take knockdown(if your DM allows it, from sword and fist) free trips whenever you deal more than 10 damage. with 4d8+str that's not very difficult...plus buff str and get an amulet of mighty fists, or jsut some gloves with enhancement to unarmed strike and you're set...


Also monks are fun! you can get on everybody's nerves upholind the law!

Umm... How do you get it up to a 4d6 damage? I know a Monk normally can only get up to 2d10 damage and the Superior unarmed strike damage combined with a monk only makes your effective Monk level (Pertaining to damage) 4 levels higher. That and the Monks belt could give you a 9 level boost in your damage dice but it never progresses past 2d10.

Caracol
2008-02-03, 06:25 AM
Don't forget that it works with both Weapon Finesse and Power Attack.

I didn't. Actually, I made this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71291) to post the feats you can use to make this weapon stand. Feel free to add your opinion.

Bag_of_Holding
2008-02-03, 06:36 AM
Umm... How do you get it up to a 4d6 damage? I know a Monk normally can only get up to 2d10 damage and the Superior unarmed strike damage combined with a monk only makes your effective Monk level (Pertaining to damage) 4 levels higher. That and the Monks belt could give you a 9 level boost in your damage dice but it never progresses past 2d10.


A warforged with Behemoth Belt and Battlefist will allow it to boost that 2d10 damage to 6d8.

shaggz076
2008-02-03, 06:39 AM
A warforged with Behemoth Belt and Battlefist will allow it to boost that 2d10 damage to 6d8.

Cool... I wonder what my DM would do with that in the game? lol

Armar
2008-02-03, 06:52 AM
There are three types of people who use melee weapons efficently.

First one is the Power Attacking brute, who wants to deal as much damage with his PA as possible, so he wants a 2-handed (or 3, 4, or so -handed if more hands than normally) weapon to maximize the damage. He can either choose reach weapon, Spiked Chain or Glaive are good choices. This will make him less vulnerable to enemies attack if he uses the Shock Trooper. He could also choose the Falchion, with Keen or Improved Critical, to give him about 30% chance to double the damage every strike.

Second one is the Tripper, who likes to keep everyone around him down while beating at them. Not much competition here, the Spiked Chain is supreme in this style. Since this style usually requires taking a good deal of feats, it is hard to combine with the most efficent PA-style; but moderate PAing is also possible with Spiked Chain.

Third one is the Sneak Attacker, who gets most of his damage from class feature combined with the TWF -feats. Unlike the other two types, critical hits give no measurable bonuses to damage, so threat ranges are usually meaingless for him. He also wants to be able to dual-wield them efficently, so they have to be light. Thus dagger is the obvious choice. Capable of two types of damage, easily hidden and also usable as throwing weapons, it is supreme to others.


Well...id say unarmed strike...it's damage scales nicely with feats and monk levels...you just need to go 8 levels of monk, or some PrC that gives you monk abilities for a few levels. Impr natural attack, superior unarmed strike and a goliath and you got best base damage in the game in a single weapon. no need for profs, usable in a grapple, can do subdual or lethal...

Considering that you have to use 2 feats, take 8 levels of monk and also be a Goliath, I doubt it is the Ultimate Melee Weapon. Goliath's Powerful Build is much better used on large 2-handed weapon for PAing. And the loss of BAB from monk levels will reduce the PA -damage that you can dish out.

tl;dr: In my opinion Falchion, Dagger and Spiked Chain are the Trinity of core melee weapons.

Leon
2008-02-03, 07:05 AM
Nyss Claymore - Finessable Greatsword with the option via feats of adding your Dex to damage

AslanCross
2008-02-03, 07:31 AM
Nyss Claymore - Finessable Greatsword with the option via feats of adding your Dex to damage

Hmm, where's that from? The closest I know of is the Elven Courtblade, which is finessable and has a rapier crit range.

Leon
2008-02-05, 04:16 PM
Iron Kingdoms Character Guide, the Feats for Dex to Damage are in a No Quarter

Illiterate Scribe
2008-02-05, 06:26 PM
There are three types of people who use melee weapons efficently.

First one is the Power Attacking brute, who wants to deal as much damage with his PA as possible, so he wants a 2-handed (or 3, 4, or so -handed if more hands than normally) weapon to maximize the damage. He can either choose reach weapon, Spiked Chain or Glaive are good choices. This will make him less vulnerable to enemies attack if he uses the Shock Trooper. He could also choose the Falchion, with Keen or Improved Critical, to give him about 30% chance to double the damage every strike.

Second one is the Tripper, who likes to keep everyone around him down while beating at them. Not much competition here, the Spiked Chain is supreme in this style. Since this style usually requires taking a good deal of feats, it is hard to combine with the most efficent PA-style; but moderate PAing is also possible with Spiked Chain.

Third one is the Sneak Attacker, who gets most of his damage from class feature combined with the TWF -feats. Unlike the other two types, critical hits give no measurable bonuses to damage, so threat ranges are usually meaingless for him. He also wants to be able to dual-wield them efficently, so they have to be light. Thus dagger is the obvious choice. Capable of two types of damage, easily hidden and also usable as throwing weapons, it is supreme to others.



Considering that you have to use 2 feats, take 8 levels of monk and also be a Goliath, I doubt it is the Ultimate Melee Weapon. Goliath's Powerful Build is much better used on large 2-handed weapon for PAing. And the loss of BAB from monk levels will reduce the PA -damage that you can dish out.

tl;dr: In my opinion Falchion, Dagger and Spiked Chain are the Trinity of core melee weapons.

Don't forget the keen kaorti resin falchion/rapier/courtblade with a +1 bonus (GMW'd to +5), and then nine different enhancements that trigger on a critical hit, along with the ones that just have a standard cost, like Prismatic burst.

It's fairly likely that you'll get a critical hit in each turn, and you release ZOMGWOFLZORZ on your opponents.

Ponce
2008-02-05, 07:12 PM
For power attacking, I prefer the falchion past very early levels.

AtomicKitKat
2008-02-05, 09:39 PM
While on the topic of the Fullblade, they seriously needed to clear it up. It works like a Large Bastard Sword, yet does damage like a Large Greatsword. I really want to slap the fellow who came up with that.

nargbop
2008-02-05, 10:18 PM
Build something off the Goliath Warhammer. 3d6 damage. critical x4 on a 20.
That's right. Crit for quadruple damage on a brokenly good damage-dealing weapon. Add some magical properties and item construction properties and it's just awesome McTawesomeSauce.