PDA

View Full Version : What is batman



Emperor Demonking
2008-02-03, 05:22 AM
Without looking at the thread, in your own words what is the batman wizard?

Don't mention guide or logicninja.

Tempest Fennac
2008-02-03, 05:25 AM
It's a Wizard which is regarded as being fully optimisd due to focussing on utility spells, battlefield control and buffs rather then direct damage spells (the idea is that other classes can do damage, but the Wizard class can do a lot of things which the other classes can't).

Talic
2008-02-03, 05:39 AM
Quite simply, it's the pinnacle of wizarding. It's when a wizard realizes that the least effective thing he/she can attack is HP. Battlefield control, Mobility, Utility, Save-or-go-the-heck-away-cause-you-ain't-doing-anything-else-here.... These are his bread and butter.

Everyone else seems to shine... But it's because he enables them all to do better, and neutralizes any threat before they face it.

Drascin
2008-02-03, 05:43 AM
It's a moniker for the very prepared wizard. The batman is the guy who's carrying around several K of gold in scrolls, uses divination often, and has a complete list of utility spells prepared. His means of offense is generally through means of mass debuffs and control spells, since he knows this will help his team win more than just fireballing the hell out of the enemy - sending the BBEG's AC into the nether regions therefore letting the Barbarian power attack for full consistently is always going to be more damage overall than a few d6s.

Rift_Wolf
2008-02-03, 05:58 AM
Batman does not apply exclusively to the wizard class. A batman is someone who can do everything alone. The rest of the team is superfluous to the batman, there as sword and meatshield and heal-slave. A batman is detrimental to the group dynamic; the group isn't playing the game, they're watching one person play the game while their actions count for next to nothing.
A batman can usually be foiled by a cunning enough DM should he make a habit of rinse-and-repeat tactics, where the DM puts enemies into encounters that requires another players abilities rather than the one-size-fits-all tactic a batman may exact. For instance, a batman wizard would be able to nerf a monster into next week, but if his bright lights and funny words attracted the attention of a tyrannosaur, he'd be hard-pushed to cast a spell from the reptiles gullet. A druid, on the other hand, could take the tyrannosaur on single-handedly with a little luck; a charm animal, reduce animal and a few wild empathy checks would calm the wild beast, and even at higher levels an Awakening could create a powerful NPC ally. A batman fighter might do insane damage with stacking charge feats, but against a grapple monster he'd better kill the thing instantly or be strangled to death, whereas a ranger or evoker could run around the creature sniping away rather than taking it on toe-to-toe. A batman rogue is rendered useless versus a construct, especially ones with DR.
The answer to batmans is not to point and shout 'OMG IT IZ TEH BROKAN!!1', but for DMs to up their game and take the batmen on with their own tactics.

Bag_of_Holding
2008-02-03, 06:03 AM
Any wizard character played by someone who buys the DM a pizza or two? :smallwink:

I found it very tricky to be 'ready for every situation', or simply to know what will be coming at the party without a few *taps nose* *nudge nudge* "wink wink* to the DM.

Talic
2008-02-03, 07:09 AM
Batman does not apply exclusively to the wizard class. A batman is someone who can do everything alone. The rest of the team is superfluous to the batman, there as sword and meatshield and heal-slave. A batman is detrimental to the group dynamic; the group isn't playing the game, they're watching one person play the game while their actions count for next to nothing.
A batman can usually be foiled by a cunning enough DM should he make a habit of rinse-and-repeat tactics, where the DM puts enemies into encounters that requires another players abilities rather than the one-size-fits-all tactic a batman may exact. For instance, a batman wizard would be able to nerf a monster into next week, but if his bright lights and funny words attracted the attention of a tyrannosaur, he'd be hard-pushed to cast a spell from the reptiles gullet. A druid, on the other hand, could take the tyrannosaur on single-handedly with a little luck; a charm animal, reduce animal and a few wild empathy checks would calm the wild beast, and even at higher levels an Awakening could create a powerful NPC ally. A batman fighter might do insane damage with stacking charge feats, but against a grapple monster he'd better kill the thing instantly or be strangled to death, whereas a ranger or evoker could run around the creature sniping away rather than taking it on toe-to-toe. A batman rogue is rendered useless versus a construct, especially ones with DR.
The answer to batmans is not to point and shout 'OMG IT IZ TEH BROKAN!!1', but for DMs to up their game and take the batmen on with their own tactics.

Hardly. The batman wizard can do any of the following to a T-rex.
1) Ray of stupidity
2) Charm monster
3) Maximized empowered Ray of Enfeeblement (have fun meatsticks)

A Batman wizard doesn't obsolete the other classes. A Batman wizard uses those classes in their strengths. It's not the wizard's job to take all the HPs from the Fire Giant. The fighters are far more effective at that. The wizard weakens the fire giant so that it's not a threat. If there are three, the wizard divides them up. THAT's a batman wizard.

Because of the wizard, the Cleric needs to use less spells to heal. The fighter can hit more often, or stand toe-to-toe with things he normally wouldn't. The rogue always has has a flanking partner (through summon monster), or invisibility when needed. The wizard is strong, but he's at his best with a party around him.

mostlyharmful
2008-02-03, 09:05 AM
Its a PC played as though it actually had the Int score the sheet says it does, to the best of the players ability.

A well run batman wiz should make their party look better and do more all while making the game more fun not less. Battlefield control, Buff/DeBuff, SoX, Utility+Div effects all boost what the other PCs do.

Stabby
2008-02-03, 09:13 AM
Batman isnt I win, Batman is we win

Its a force multiplier. It makes the rogue sneakier, the Barb ragier, the cleric not just a heal bot, and the bard... well, um... ok, ignore the bard.

Batman means playing smart, battlefield control, and let your melee boys go to town. Or its pulling the party's collective fat out of the fire. Or its holding that ace in the hole untill it looks like TPK and then unleashing it. That way no one can be mad, you didnt eclipse them, you saved them.

Batman isnt munchkin, Batman is smart.

BardicDuelist
2008-02-03, 09:15 AM
A batman wizard is a wizard played as mentioned in the guide to playing batman, by logic ninja. That is where the term came from (or is attributed as coming from), and starting a thread based on this, but not allowing the thread to be mentioned is obnoxious. Really ED, you know what a batman wizard is, so why post the question on this forum?

Arbitrarity
2008-02-03, 10:24 AM
QFT on the plurality win. While not literal, that is what occurs when a wizard is played correctly.

What it literally means, is that with enough time to research and prepare, a wizard (generally not another class, their features aren't as flexible) can take down any opponent.

kamikasei
2008-02-03, 11:33 AM
There is a two-page spread in the first issue of Hush (a Batman comic from a few years back) where Batman is boarding a boat on which a bunch of mercs are holding a hostage. He puts out the lights, and then you see a view through his night-visioned eyes as thought bubbles list the precise greatest weakness of each foe and he targets that weakness with a single, perfectly effective strike. I can't remember them all, but one example is a former IRA man with a metal plate in his skull; Batman chucks a magnetized ball-bearing at him, knocking him out via migraine.

That's D&D through a batman wizard's eyes. More than any other class, they see the stats underlying the world and manipulate them directly. Every battle, every enemy is a set of strengths and weaknesses, and every one has some bat-shark-repellent equivalent in his utility belt spellbook.

mockingbyrd7
2008-02-03, 11:44 AM
ACK! I'm not looking at the thread! Okay! Uncle!

Hmm... let's see... what is Batman...

Ah! Okay, Batman would probably be at least level 20, if not epic. Alignment aside, he'd probably have a few levels of monk, several of rogue, and a good deal of fighter. Insane, improbable stats.

Ohhhhh, you meant the wizard kind? Oh, yeah, those guys are effective but no fun. Straight save-and-suck.

huttj509
2008-02-03, 12:01 PM
In any fight between superheroes, the rule is:

If he has time to prepare, Batman wins.

This rule can be applied to wizards, by focusing not on damage spells, but on save or die/save or lose/save or suck spells that can heavily turn the battle in the favor of the wizard. This can be extended by methods which mean "If the wizard has time to prepare, he then gets time to prepare, even if he doesn't" (contingency, celerity, blah blah).

F.L.
2008-02-03, 12:32 PM
"I'm Batman."

"Do I look like a cop?"

"Swear to ME!"

Devils_Advocate
2008-02-03, 04:16 PM
I posted a bit on the nature of Batman wizards recently, so I might as well reiterate it here:


To paraphrase from one discussion: "A lot of this Wizard vs. Sorcerer stuff strikes me as similar to the Batman vs. Superman debate. 'Batman always wins, if prepared.' And Batman almost always is prepared, so he almost always wins."

One of the central ideas is that, at a very high level of abstraction, a wizard's most important duty is to do everything that the party needs done but that no one else can do. In theory, you could use that job description for every character. In practice, at high levels, there probably is no important task that the Fighter alone can perform. Other characters may be less redundant, but the Wizard is likely to be the least redundant. It's one of those "with great power comes great responsibility" dealies.