Master Chief vs. Delta 38 (Republic Commando)

[warty goblin]

Combatents:
Master Chief.
Last surviving SPARTAN supersoldier (I think), has regenerating energy shields, powered armor, super strength and can run 60 kilometers an hour. After birth he has been surgically altered to be far tougher and stronger than any normal human.

Delta 38
Highly trained commando bred and trained since birth for combat. Also has power armor, albeit not of the strength enhancing variety, with regenerating energy shields, built in vibro-blade for melee combat, tactical overlay which can highlight enemies and other important information and low light vision. Has bacta implants that can shock him back to his feet when activated, however they seem to require a third party to activate.

Weaponry: Assume that the MC has access to any weapons he wants from the usual Halo arsenal, but has the usual carrying restrictions, so he can't portage around with six rocket launchers and three sniper rifles. MC also has access to the full Halo 3 grenade loadout with the usual grenade count restrictions.

Delta 38 carries full commando loadout, DC-17 modular blaster rifle w/300 rounds of ammunition, sniper attachment w/25 rounds (I think that's the max, can't remember for sure), anti-armor attachment w/ 4 rounds, recharging blaster pistol. For grenades Delta 38 has 5 EMP, 5 thermal detonators and 5 sonic.

The senario: Delta 38 is sent onto a remote alien ring-like construct to investigate the dissappearance of several Republic scouting forces. However when coming in to land his drop ship takes heavy fire from some unknown hostile and crash lands, killing all of the crew except Delta 38 (the rest of the squad was on assignment elsewhere, so Fixer's still alive, it's OK, you can set down the weapons now). Most of the dropship's supplies are still intact however, along with the handy Random Bacta Dispenser, so he can resupply and heal if given the opportunity.

After regaining conciousness 38 scouts the area and finds a group of UNSC scouts manning the turret that killed his ship. They had been tasked with destroying a small Covenent force in the area. 38 kills off the patroll without difficulty. Cortana however catches a glimpse of 38 before a sniper round blows the last Marine away, and alerts Master Chief, who naturally goes off Commando hunting after finishing off the last of the covenent patrol.

Both soldiers have access to their usual Plot Device Information Dispensers, Cortana and Advisor, but due to the unknown nature of the foe, neither can provide much more than topological information.

The terrain is typical of Halo 1, light forest and grasslands, with frequent alien structures built into the rocks, although no Forerunner constructs remain. Due to the covert nature of both side's engagement, no vehicles are present, although MC has access to the Marine's supply base, as well as that of the now dead Covenent scout force. Delta 38 has the afformentioned downed drop ship for resupply.

So who wins?

[Mr._Blinky]

Finally, a vs. thread that's actually fairly well thought out, detailed, and doesn't have an immediately obvious victor. These are rare, so congratulations.

I think it comes down to this:

MC Advantages:
1) Better shields (they seem to be able to take far more fire than 38's)
2) Super-strength (one punch is probably going to kill 38, even with shielding)
3) Better range (weapons in both games suck at long ranges, but it's worse in Republic Commando)
4) Wider variety of weapons (Chief's potential armory is much more extensive than 38's, and his backup weapons tend to provide more punch)
5) Better experience going solo (this is, I think, the biggest one, since most of Chief's experience involves slaughtering armies single-handed, while 38 often relies on his squad for backup)
6) Better ammo carrying capacity (the number of times I ran out of ammo in RC far outstrips the number in Halo, and not just because it's more plentiful in the latter, but because 38 tends to go through clips like nobody's business)
7) Speed (60 mph, 'nuff said)

38 Advantages:
1) Better versatility (can carry his main weapon, which can operate in any of three modes, and a backup weapon, though his backups don't tend to be as effective as Chief's)
2) Built in close combat weapon (that vibroblade is extremely effective, though unfortunately I wouldn't quite trust it close up vs. Chief's super-strength)
3) Better grenades (EMP strips shields in a second, thermal has better radius than frag, sonics are good, and he can carry nearly twice as many, though admittedly a good sticky from Chief and it's over)
4) Possibly better primary weapon (blasters in Star Wars are supposed to pack a mean punch, but I'm not really sure how it is compared to the Chief's weapons)


That's basically what I can think of, I'll add more if there's anything I missed. I'd probably give this to Chief, since 38's strength comes in large part from synergy with his squad, whereas Chief is more of a lone-wolf type in the games. Delta 38 is a badass, but Chief's done some things that I don't see 38 pulling off without a squad at his back.

Now, the real question is, if all of Delta Squad and Chief teamed up, could they take down Marneus Calgar with hit-and-run tactics?:smalltongue: (geez, I'm joking, don't hurt me!)

[LBO]

Now, the real question is, if all of Delta Squad and Chief teamed up, could they take down Marneus Calgar with hit-and-run tactics? (geez, I'm joking, don't hurt me!)
No. Calgar would melt Delta Squad by spitting at them, then crush Master Chief into a cube two inches to a side. With one arm tied behind his back.

From what you've said I think I'd give the win to Chief here, though I'm sorry to admit I haven't actually played Republic Commando :(

[Prophaniti]

This actually strikes me as pretty one-sided. Their weapons and targeting systems would be pretty comparable with marginal variations that are unlikely to make a difference in a fight. The Chief has far more surgical and mechanical augmentations, including reinforced bones, reaction times measured in nano-seconds, and strength to dent hull plating with his fist. Then he gets in his MJOLNIR armor and the scales really start to tip. Don't get me wrong, I like Republic Commando, great game. I just don't think theirs any real hope for poor Delta 38.


whereas Chief is more of a lone-wolf type in the games.This is merely because in the games the other SPARTAN-IIs have already gone missing or were killed in their long and impressive campaign against the Covenant (which includes such distinctions as never, and I mean never, having lost a ground engagement to them). Rest assured, their group synergy is at least on level with Delta Squad's.

[Selrahc]

Delta 38s anti armour setting equivalent to a rocket launcher? The sniper equivalent powerful enough to break chief?

If so, then its whoever gets lucky. Either can kill each other at long range if they get the first shot. Either can kill each other with rockets.

Chief has the only solid advantage in that area, with his enhanced reflexes. So he might win more often. but either one of them could get lucky.

[thorgrim29]

If you read the books, MC gets almost PWN'd a couple of times because he's not used to fight solo and keeps expecting his team to back him up...

[warty goblin]

I'd actually put most of 38's weapons a bit ahead of MC's. The DC-17 seems roughly equivilent to a Covenent plasma rifle, but fires faster, more accurately, doesn't overheat and reloads like a snap. The Sniper rifle attachment has a higher magnification (x20 instead of x8) and uses a shot that's basically a slug encased in plasma IIRC, making it basically the Halo SR and Beam Rifle combined. The Anti-armor attachment is a little harder to find an exact equivilent for, but it can drop two SBDs in one go if you've got good shot placement and pretty clearly does mean splash damage. The blaster pistol just plain sucks though, I make no excuses for it.

The MC pretty clearly has 38 on speed and strength I admit, which is important, but 38 beats MC hands down in other skills like breaching doors and trap-setting, which is also important. This means that 38 would likely be able to get to places the Chief can't, and make the Chief's arrival most unpleasant.

38 also seems to have, at least from the games, an advantage in targetting equipment. His helmet can track enemies from behind walls, as well as give a readout on their physical condition. At least in-game, MC can't do that.

All in all, I'm not totally sure, so I'll wait to hear more opinions.

[Talkkno]

I'm pretty sure Delta 38 could take at least one punch for Chief, his armor is pretty impressive, considering weaker stormtrooper armor had someone throw a spear at the guy wearing it with enough force to throw against the wall, the armor remained intact.

[Mr._Blinky]

I'm pretty sure Delta 38 could take at least one punch for Chief, his armor is pretty impressive, considering weaker stormtrooper armor had someone throw a spear at the guy wearing it with enough force to throw against the wall, the armor remained intact.

It's also had Ewok arrows penetrate it though, so let's not get ahead of ourselves.:smalltongue:

When it gets down to it though, I'd actually say make it all of Delta squad running through the jungle, with Chief hunting them. Make Chief as fast and tactically brilliant as he is in the books, and I think you'd have an even fight. Chief is himself more than capable of planting traps and laying ambushes, the games just don't really give you much of a chance to. Which is, in fact, one of my major problems with the games, in that the action never really switches up and gives you a chance to do something other than shoot people.:smallannoyed: I love the Halo games, but if they'd gotten someone competent to design their campaigns (like the guys who did CoD4), they'd be fully deserving of all the 10 reviews they got.

[Gungnir]

If you read the books, MC gets almost PWN'd a couple of times because he's not used to fight solo and keeps expecting his team to back him up...

That's because he forgot to start using solo tactics. Mans been part of the same close-knit team for decades, then all of a sudden they all die/disappear. After his solitary accident (not checking his flank), he figures this out and moves to solo tactics.

I'd say this depends on how much intel S-117 can get. the vast majority of conflicts in the books are resolved kinda like anime fights; team gets surprised and knocked on its ass, then figures out what to do and annihilates them. Most likely scenario: Marines getting pwnzored counts as half getting knocked on his ass, then there's a 40% chance of 38 killing the 117 during their first skirmish. After that, 117 thinks of a crazy-like-a-fox plan and wins.

Hmm, wait though. Depending on how 38's networking situation is, Cortana could decimate 38 without having to see him. Epic hacks FTW.

[Talkkno]

It's also had Ewok arrows penetrate it though, so let's not get ahead of ourselves.:smalltongue:


*Sighs* Give me visual evidence that the actually penetrated the armor plate, not the rubbery body glove part, I'm sure Renegade Paladin has screens of it specifically showing none of the arrows actually penetrated the armor, they targeted the body glove...I can dig up them up if you want.

[Mr._Blinky]

*Sighs* Give me visual evidence that the actually penetrated the armor plate, not the rubbery body glove part, I'm sure Renegade Paladin has screens of it specifically showing none of the arrows actually penetrated the armor, they targeted the body glove...I can dig up them up if you want.

Well, while I'm not completely convinced either way, I still feel I should note that the body glove still counts as part of the armor. Armor is only as good as its weakest part when you've got an enemy around who can easily exploit that like the Chief can. He kills Hunters fairly routinely, and they're completely invulnerable except for those tiny spots on their back and head, so I'm pretty sure he could put a couple of rounds into a body glove that covers about 25-30% of a stormtrooper's body. Though, in the spirit of fairness, 38 undoubtedly has better than average armor, and far less of it seems to be taken up by the body glove than normal.

[warty goblin]

In fairness, MC's armor also seems to have some noticable gaps in the plating, particularly around the neck and under the arms.

[Mr._Blinky]

In fairness, MC's armor also seems to have some noticable gaps in the plating, particularly around the neck and under the arms.

I'll have to look back, but I'm fairly sure that it's mentioned somewhere that that section is bullet-proofed pretty well also, though not quite as protected. Again, I'll have to look it up though, since I really can't remember.

[Seraph]

While I usually debate against Star Wars, I should point out that Delta 38 is the leader of an elite commando squadron with equipment to match, so its not as if the failures of Joe Stormtrooper 17's equipment can really be considered as applicable.

[puppyavenger]

I'll have to look back, but I'm fairly sure that it's mentioned somewhere that that section is bullet-proofed pretty well also, though not quite as protected. Again, I'll have to look it up though, since I really can't remember.

plus the force field around him.

[Gungnir]

I'll have to look back, but I'm fairly sure that it's mentioned somewhere that that section is bullet-proofed pretty well also, though not quite as protected. Again, I'll have to look it up though, since I really can't remember.

I believe it's still effectively bulletproof, but it doesn't have the special reactive layer that makes it more effective against plasma.

[warty goblin]

I believe it's still effectively bulletproof, but it doesn't have the special reactive layer that makes it more effective against plasma.


In short, not a good weakness to have against an enemy who uses primarily plasma based weaponry.

[sheepofoblivion]

In fairness, MC's armor also seems to have some noticable gaps in the plating, particularly around the neck and under the arms.

Their armor is weak on the neck, and under the arms!!! (lord of the rings!:smallbiggrin: )


Well, many pointed out that 38 is part of a squad, but there are parts where he is seperated (those... are... annoying)

I think it all depends on... Who's playing on hard mode(/legendary, whatever (where a single jackal can take you down in you're in a bad position)) ?:smalltongue:
I personally think that the MC is sorta to protagonisty ( HES THE MAIN CHARACTER!!! ), but...I'm going to have to go with ... (THE ARBITER!!! (sorry)) with 38, he has pretty good weaponry, possibly better, and possibly technology, (track through walls, more advanced grenages, awesome HUD, but who knows, maybe the MC will win

[warty goblin]

Their armor is weak on the neck, and under the arms!!! (lord of the rings!:smallbiggrin: )


Well, many pointed out that 38 is part of a squad, but there are parts where he is seperated (those... are... annoying)

I think it all depends on... Who's playing on hard mode(/legendary, whatever (where a single jackal can take you down in you're in a bad position)) ?:smalltongue:
I personally think that the MC is sorta to protagonisty ( HES THE MAIN CHARACTER!!! ), but...I'm going to have to go with ... (THE ARBITER!!! (sorry)) with 38, he has pretty good weaponry, possibly better, and possibly technology, (track through walls, more advanced grenages, awesome HUD, but who knows, maybe the MC will win

Hmm, yeah I'm leaning more and more towards a Delta 38 win myself.

OK, new senario: Both Delta 38 and MC touch down on opposite sides of the Silent Cartographer island from the original Halo. Both have no support, but their allies have dropped supplies from orbit across the island, so they won't run out of ammunition. Due to heavy Covenent ground forces however they cannot get close enough for vehicle insertion.

Opposition is essentially what it was in the level, Covenent patrols etc. The two LZs for both sides have basically the same level of resistance as in the level, but no allies for either side are present. Events also play out the same as in Silent Cartographer, so the door to the room with the map data will lock once the contestants reach it and so on. To make things more interesting however I'm going to play with the topography a little: Assume that the island is long and thin and LZs are at either end, with the map room in the center, and two security stations which open it, each placed about halfway between the map room and the LZs. Niether side knows about the security stations however and may have to backtrack, or proceed to the farther one, their choice.

The goals are a little different this time however. Both the Republic and the UNSC want the Silent Cartographer data, and thus have sent Delta 38 and MC to retrieve it. The two soldiers initially know only that the other side has landed some ground forces, but nothing more than that. They can kill each other if neccessary, but they don't need to to succeed. Victory goes to the first person to grab the data and get it back to their LZ for extraction.

So who gets the data first?

[Mr._Blinky]

Chief. He's got more experience fighting the Covies, and that 60 MPH running speed means that he can get around just as quickly as if he's in a vehicle. Quicker, actually, since he doesn't need to worry as much about maneuvering. Since its really just a race, speed is just as crucial as combat capabilities, and Chief's way ahead of 38 in that regard.

[sheepofoblivion]

Well, I think that's about right... but SINCE FRIKEN WHEN DID the MC FREAKIN RUN AT 60 MPH!?!?!?! ... ... /angryness... yeah... sorry about that... I somehow doubt that any (heavily genetically altered or not) human (super soldier, whatever) could run that fast. Period. Serious. I don't care what a book says. If thats what goes, than I say that 38 have a pink fluffy bunny which causes all enemies to run away in fear that goes as fast as it wants to...

superspeed supersoldiers on meth out of the question, ... I think that if neither knew the lay of the land, 38 would have to win. He has an "eye in the sky," and if a commando's helmet can track enemies through walls, giant star destroyers can too... Therefore, he would have knowledge about the ship/island thingy and have a clear advantage (also in that game, 38 can hack into pretty much anything, cortana ... might be able to, but no one has evidence...

[Gungnir]

Well, I think that's about right... but SINCE FRIKEN WHEN DID the MC FREAKIN RUN AT 60 MPH!?!?!?! ... ... /angryness... yeah... sorry about that... I somehow doubt that any (heavily genetically altered or not) human (super soldier, whatever) could run that fast. Period. Serious.

So, deflecting missiles with pimpslaps is fine, but running fast is just too crazy for you? :smallconfused:


also in that game, 38 can hack into pretty much anything, cortana ... might be able to, but no one has evidence...
Did you just challenge Cortana to a hacking fight? Cortana can fly through human and Covenant security in her spare time. No human has a chance.

[warty goblin]

So, deflecting missiles with pimpslaps is fine, but running fast is just too crazy for you? :smallconfused:


Did you just challenge Cortana to a hacking fight? Cortana can fly through human and Covenant security in her spare time. No human has a chance.

Except for that console right next to the door to the Silent Cartographer. She didn't even try or give it a second glance. Either she missed it, or she can't hack everything.

My guess as to how this goes is that MC gets the data first, Delta 38 gets to the entrance of the Silent Cartographer complex, realizes that his enemy's already entered but likely not exited, then camps the door. MC leaves the complex but gets headshot from a nearby hilltop. 38 grabs the data and hauls ass back to the dropship.

Either that or Delta 38 gets to the complex while MC is off fiddling with switches, at which point he pulls out that handy high explosive he carries everywhere, blows the door to kingdom come, then gets the data. It then comes down to a fight between the two super-soldiers inside the complex itself.

[Gungnir]

Except for that console right next to the door to the Silent Cartographer. She didn't even try or give it a second glance. Either she missed it, or she can't hack everything.

So the only thing Cortana can't hack so far is the security of a super-advanced race's weapons platform. Largely because she wasn't able to understand their language yet. Emphasis on the yet. You still can't expect 38 to out-hack her. Even if it just comes down to how many things they can do at once, she's a computer, and thus measures her thinking in billions of processes per second. No contest.

Again, I haven't played 38's game, so I can't say who would win definitively, but I still think that, given a slight edge on the intel side and some help from Cortana, 117 can pull this one off. Like I said before, the only times the SPARTANs get knocked on their ass is when they are caught by something they couldn't have possibly known about.

[sheepofoblivion]

Alright, by "eye in the sky," I was referring to the hologram which talks to you a lot... That comes from a big ship. Big ship has big computers. Big. technically, the only thing that 38 couldn't hack is broken consoles, which can't be hacken other than by some lame plot device...

Ok, howbout this, the complex has a communications jammer, and the MC doesn't have cortana with him, what happens then? I personally love halo, but hes a fighter, and if the hacker isn't with him (like for more than half of Halo 3) he can't get through big locked doors, he can't open a forcefield, or even be able to get basic schematics from a console. If he comes arcoss a forcefielded, locked door, with a console next to it, He's screwed. Unless he wants to kick it open with his legs capable of going faster than any natural land animal. (and human have pathetic stregnth)

[Moff Chumley]

Master Chief.

Next! [/Fanboy] :smallwink:

[Mr._Blinky]

Well, I think that's about right... but SINCE FRIKEN WHEN DID the MC FREAKIN RUN AT 60 MPH!?!?!?! ... ... /angryness... yeah... sorry about that... I somehow doubt that any (heavily genetically altered or not) human (super soldier, whatever) could run that fast. Period. Serious. I don't care what a book says. If thats what goes, than I say that 38 have a pink fluffy bunny which causes all enemies to run away in fear that goes as fast as it wants to...

superspeed supersoldiers on meth out of the question, ... I think that if neither knew the lay of the land, 38 would have to win. He has an "eye in the sky," and if a commando's helmet can track enemies through walls, giant star destroyers can too... Therefore, he would have knowledge about the ship/island thingy and have a clear advantage (also in that game, 38 can hack into pretty much anything, cortana ... might be able to, but no one has evidence...

Cheetas can run that speed, though not for long, so it's not that impossible. Admittedly, cheetahs are quadrupeds with bodies specially adapted for sprinting, but since Chief's been cranked up to 11 and his armor gives him ridiculous amounts of endurance, it's possible. Improbable, but not impossible.

As for Cortana not being able to hack it...are you kidding? Cortana's original purpose was as a hacking program. 38 can hack because all the Star Wars tech is pretty much the same, so he knows exactly what he's up against. He wouldn't have any idea what to do with Forerunner tech. Cortana, being able to adapt and retry faster than 38 can even realize he should start hacking, will beat him at it any time. And if Cortana can't hack it, there's no way in hell 38 can.

[sheepofoblivion]

Cheetas can run that speed, though not for long, so it's not that impossible. Admittedly, cheetahs are quadrupeds with bodies specially adapted for sprinting, but since Chief's been cranked up to 11 and his armor gives him ridiculous amounts of endurance, it's possible. Improbable, but not impossible.

As for Cortana not being able to hack it...are you kidding? Cortana's original purpose was as a hacking program. 38 can hack because all the Star Wars tech is pretty much the same, so he knows exactly what he's up against. He wouldn't have any idea what to do with Forerunner tech. Cortana, being able to adapt and retry faster than 38 can even realize he should start hacking, will beat him at it any time. And if Cortana can't hack it, there's no way in hell 38 can.

... :smallsigh: I never actually said that Cortana CAN'T HACK ____!!!! I just said that 38 can. Besides, he is backed by advisor guy, who probably has access to a (super) computer as well, and who knows, maybe a hacking program is installed during those 30seconds to 3 minutes of hacking...

(besides, cheetas can run that fast for 3 seconds. 3. 2. 1. 0. if they go past that, their heart dies. DIES... :( (poor cheetas) even with enhanced endurance and genetic modifications, his heart would have to be significantly larger than anyone elses. Cheetas are also built for speed. Their spine arches with their trot (things) and their heart is a lot bigger than a humans. Their bodies came from generations of evolution, and if I may point out, the MC wasn't originally going to be a marathon runner, he was going to be a soldier. It is physically impossible. A fancy suit and genetic modifications can't reproduce cheetas sprinting speed, not even for a fraction of the time. And say you aren't going to listen to what I say, let me repeat myself 3 seconds. Generations of evolution. 60mph for 3 seconds, fastest land animal. Ever.

[Mr._Blinky]

(besides, cheetas can run that fast for 3 seconds. 3. 2. 1. 0. if they go past that, their heart dies. DIES... :( (poor cheetas) even with enhanced endurance and genetic modifications, his heart would have to be significantly larger than anyone elses. Cheetas are also built for speed. Their spine arches with their trot (things) and their heart is a lot bigger than a humans. Their bodies came from generations of evolution, and if I may point out, the MC wasn't originally going to be a marathon runner, he was going to be a soldier. It is physically impossible. A fancy suit and genetic modifications can't reproduce cheetas sprinting speed, not even for a fraction of the time. And say you aren't going to listen to what I say, let me repeat myself 3 seconds. Generations of evolution. 60mph for 3 seconds, fastest land animal. Ever.

If you could site your source on the 3 seconds please? I know they can't do it for very long, but I'm almost certain it's more than 3 seconds. Not much more, but 3 seconds doesn't really work for catching things, since you need to be able to accelerate to that speed first.

As for the endurance, I'd actually be surprised if he couldn't go top speed for longer. He's got his entire system cranked ridiculously past the norm, his muscles are three times as dense as normal, and he's wearing powered armor. That powered armor is the real enabler on this, because it effectively does most of the hard work for him. He just goes at his personal fastest speed, which probably isn't nearly 60 mph, and then his armor does the rest. Again, improbable, but not impossible.

This really isn't much of an issue though, to be honest. If we really needed to get down to who's got more impossible stuff, Star Wars is ridiculous in the physics department. In light of the fact that it's science-fiction, I think we can overlook most of these little things as "too high-tech for us to rationalize with modern technology."

[GoC]

3 seconds. Generations of evolution. 60mph for 3 seconds, fastest land animal. Ever.

Comparison:
Antelope. Not designed just for running but can go 67kmh for 30 minutes.
Just modify the muscles so the can move faster with some mechanical mods and BAM! You've got 60mph for as long as your fuel lasts!

[Gungnir]

Also, people are surprisingly well built for running. Last year sometime someone posted a study about how we used to hunt by running things down. Not with speed, admittedly, but with endurance. Combine that with 3 times the muscle mass of your average 7 foot plus male, and you've got a speedy mutha-shut-yo-mouth. Furthermore: its science FICTION. John runs that fast because the writers say he runs that fast.

[Runar]

It actually says that the Spartans can run up to 60 kilometers per hour, not miles per hour. That roughly translates to about 40 miles per hour, which is still faster then 38.

[sheepofoblivion]

sigh...:smallsigh: ... I actually remember that from a national geographic special on cheetahs... However, I dont' think I can get you that, and may have been off, However, I did find that Cheetahs accelerate from 0-70mph in about 2 seconds. Search it if you don't believe me, (If you think I'm lying, you don't have any proof...) 3-60 seconds, although it is a big difference (don't tear me to pieces for being about 57 seconds off) It really isn't. It certainly is possible that the MC can go 60 mph, but, the Cheetah goes 70, and it goes from 0-70 in 2 seconds, and at most for a minute. A minute of 70 mph doesn't really help...

"Just across this huge field, ignore the snipers, they won't shoot at us! especially because all of them have a bad angle!"

Seriously, even if it was 100mph, any animal that runs that fast would have to take at least 30 minutes of recovery, which is sort of inconvenient when people are shooting at you.

(also don't say that "MC HAS SUPER ENDURANCE CUZ HIS SUIT GIVES IT TO HIM!!!!" That doesn't matter, unless it actually enlarges his respiratory organs and supplies extra oxygen to his super-muscles, because it doesn't... (also don't say that hes on adrenaline, because all soldiers are (also don't say hes on meth, because that would be sick and twisted)))

(When we started this thread, I'm pretty sure that we stepped out of super realisticness... (I know, you're going to say that I shouldn't have brought up that he can't run 60 Kph but you did))

[Emperor Tippy]

Actually MC does have super endurance.

His muscles produce much less Lactic Acid than normal.

To understand MC's physical capabilities think about it like this:
Step 1: Search the entire human race (and the UNSC had around a trillion people to search from) for the best physical and mental specimens. The 5 year olds who can lift a hundred pounds and are 4 feet tall. The people who never get sick. The people with perfect memories. Etc. All of these kind of people exist today. Granted out of the 7 billion people on earth there are fewer than a hundred recorded cases of the first instance, but it happens. There are people who's immune systems beat everything (up to and including things like AIDS). Now out of the entire human population (of a trillion or so) take the hundred or so best specimens at the age of 6.

Step 2: Put these kids through continuous conditioning, both mental and physical, that makes what the Spartans of old went through look like a walk in the park. At the age of 13 the Spartan-2's were considered to be Olympian level athletes in nearly every category.

Step 3: Augment these kids so that their muscles (already far denser and stronger than your average humans) are 3-5 times denser. Replace their nervous system with a better one that improves reflex's by 300%. Pump them up on HGH and steroids. Change their muscles so that they produce less Lactic Acid.

You already had a person who at 13 could run a marathon at a world record pace and not be that tired afterward (they did it every day for several years). Now with the upgrades that person has had their endurance increased about 5 fold and their leg muscles, heart, and lungs all made 3-5 times stronger. These kids already were running 4 minute miles. Even a 50% increase in speed from the boosts is 30 miles per hour.

Now put the kid in a powered exoskeleton that increased his muscles another 5 fold or so.

----------
The human body is an amazing thing in the first place and when you get one of the few people who are as close to genetically perfect as is possible and then train that natural ability with absolute ruthlessness from the age of 6 until the age of 20 you get someone who is the absolute max in turns of human ability. And thats before you boost them.

[MeklorIlavator]

Also, remember that the Halo universe is set about 500 years into the future. This means that Humanity has gotten another 500 years of research and technological development to advance in fields of science, and we really have no basis to say that something that occurs in the games/books is scientifically impossible. Look at the 20th century, or even the 19th. If you asked someone if it was possible to put a man on the moon in 1899, and they likely would have burst out laughing. Everyone knew that man couldn't even fly, much less get on the moon, and yet we've done it. We've had trouble predicting where science is going to end up in as little as 60 years, so I doubt that we can make any assumptions on the capabilities on technology that is supposedly invented 500 years from now.

[The_JJ]

I'd have to go with MC.

a. More speed. (km or miles irelevent.)
b. Better Armor (including shields desinged to absorb/deflect plasma, plus plating below that)
c. Good weapons. (Is clone armor more vunerable to conventional armor? Doubt it but still, chief can do both.)
d. Cortana, Cortana basically owns any SW equivelnt AI's/computers.
And yeah, I think Emporer Tippy did a nice job of describing how much cooler the chief is. Cloning the best bounty hunters gets you maybe to step 2.5

[Talkkno]

I'd have to go with MC.


b. Better Armor (including shields desinged to absorb/deflect plasma, plus plating below that)


Cheif's armor can be penetrated by regular bullets and plasma rifles, you need something akin to a Fuel Rod Gun to breach ARC trooper armor.

[Mr._Blinky]

Cheif's armor can be penetrated by regular bullets and plasma rifles, you need something akin to a Fuel Rod Gun to breach ARC trooper armor.

I take it that this is why it is routinely damaged by little guys with knives?

[Moff Chumley]

Actually MC does have super endurance.

His muscles produce much less Lactic Acid than normal.

To understand MC's physical capabilities think about it like this:
Step 1: Search the entire human race (and the UNSC had around a trillion people to search from) for the best physical and mental specimens. The 5 year olds who can lift a hundred pounds and are 4 feet tall. The people who never get sick. The people with perfect memories. Etc. All of these kind of people exist today. Granted out of the 7 billion people on earth there are fewer than a hundred recorded cases of the first instance, but it happens. There are people who's immune systems beat everything (up to and including things like AIDS). Now out of the entire human population (of a trillion or so) take the hundred or so best specimens at the age of 6.

Step 2: Put these kids through continuous conditioning, both mental and physical, that makes what the Spartans of old went through look like a walk in the park. At the age of 13 the Spartan-2's were considered to be Olympian level athletes in nearly every category.

Step 3: Augment these kids so that their muscles (already far denser and stronger than your average humans) are 3-5 times denser. Replace their nervous system with a better one that improves reflex's by 300%. Pump them up on HGH and steroids. Change their muscles so that they produce less Lactic Acid.

You already had a person who at 13 could run a marathon at a world record pace and not be that tired afterward (they did it every day for several years). Now with the upgrades that person has had their endurance increased about 5 fold and their leg muscles, heart, and lungs all made 3-5 times stronger. These kids already were running 4 minute miles. Even a 50% increase in speed from the boosts is 30 miles per hour.

Now put the kid in a powered exoskeleton that increased his muscles another 5 fold or so.

----------
The human body is an amazing thing in the first place and when you get one of the few people who are as close to genetically perfect as is possible and then train that natural ability with absolute ruthlessness from the age of 6 until the age of 20 you get someone who is the absolute max in turns of human ability. And thats before you boost them.

I dunno about you, but that kinda reminds me of a Space Marine... who would win? MC or Joe Shmo Bolter Armed Space Marine?

[Moff Chumley]

I take it that this is why it is routinely damaged by little guys with knives?

Ewoks don't count. Just... shut up. [shoves into another thread]

[Talkkno]

I take it that this is why it is routinely damaged by little guys with knives?

First of all, thats the body glove part, and 2ndly, ARC trooper armor is much more covered and doesn't have the body glove exposed, unlike stormtrooper armor.

[sheepofoblivion]

I take it that this is why it is routinely damaged by little guys with knives?

hmm... If you are referring to Ewoks, as someone put so expertly earlier, this isn't joe stormtrooper 17 with almost no training, this is a clone, of the nearly unkillable boba fett, with just as much if not more genetic alterations.

If you are talking about multiplayer (which I doubt because half the people rooting for the MC haven't even played RC) would you seriously like it if the designers made it so that you had to hit someone bloody 20 times with a vibrating, armor piercing knife for it to kill them? No.

(also if you're going to say that, in multiplayer, the random elite can kill you in two hits from a hit from the butt of a gun. period. if its from behind, 1 hit.)

Also, who says the Cheif was one of the best, there may have been many perfect humans, but the MC is only one of them, who says he was the best out of all of them. (also if you have evidence of a four year old lifting a car, I would enjoy having it, even if I wasn't in this argument...) The only way that he was better than any other Spartans was that according to cortana, "can you guess what it is? Luck." So he could just be another spartan, could be a below average one at that... I agree that the MC could run pretty damn fast, but that still isn't much of an advantage. Sure it's nice, but if you play on legendary (heroic even, ) a jackal with a beam rifle can go *boom, headshot* and thats the end of it all for the MC. A dfendable position with several, alert snipers could take down some supersoldier sprinting across a place, all you need is the right angle. (I litterally sniped some guy on mutliplayer when he had his speed cranked up like 200% all you need is the right angle (no, not a 90 degress,) just a nice little sniping spot and bam)

Also, I seem to recall that Halo takes place in about 2020, not 2508... (someone hasn't gone through pre-school yet...)

[MeklorIlavator]

Also, I seem to recall that Halo takes place in about 2020, not 2508... (someone hasn't gone through pre-school yet...)

Ohh, that's a clever jibe, but wrong. From wikipedia

In 2525 communication with Harvest, an Outer Colony, is lost and the ship sent to investigate is destroyed by the Covenant.[10] The Covenant Hierarchs declare humanity an affront to the gods and order its destruction. By 2535, almost all of the Outer Colonies have been destroyed by the Covenant; the alien's technological advantage proves almost impossible for the UNSC to beat in space engagements. These events are referred to in the video games, but their only lengthy descriptions are found in the novels Halo: The Fall of Reach and Contact Harvest.

Note those two dates. Seems to be a bit later that 2020. Infact, it seems to be about 500 years later.

[Mr._Blinky]

hmm... If you are referring to Ewoks, as someone put so expertly earlier, this isn't joe stormtrooper 17 with almost no training, this is a clone, of the nearly unkillable boba fett, with just as much if not more genetic alterations.

If you are talking about multiplayer (which I doubt because half the people rooting for the MC haven't even played RC) would you seriously like it if the designers made it so that you had to hit someone bloody 20 times with a vibrating, armor piercing knife for it to kill them? No.

(also if you're going to say that, in multiplayer, the random elite can kill you in two hits from a hit from the butt of a gun. period. if its from behind, 1 hit.)

Also, who says the Cheif was one of the best, there may have been many perfect humans, but the MC is only one of them, who says he was the best out of all of them. (also if you have evidence of a four year old lifting a car, I would enjoy having it, even if I wasn't in this argument...) The only way that he was better than any other Spartans was that according to cortana, "can you guess what it is? Luck." So he could just be another spartan, could be a below average one at that... I agree that the MC could run pretty damn fast, but that still isn't much of an advantage. Sure it's nice, but if you play on legendary (heroic even, ) a jackal with a beam rifle can go *boom, headshot* and thats the end of it all for the MC. A dfendable position with several, alert snipers could take down some supersoldier sprinting across a place, all you need is the right angle. (I litterally sniped some guy on mutliplayer when he had his speed cranked up like 200% all you need is the right angle (no, not a 90 degress,) just a nice little sniping spot and bam)

Also, I seem to recall that Halo takes place in about 2020, not 2508... (someone hasn't gone through pre-school yet...)
Wow, so much bad logic in your post. First things first...

Actually, no, I'm talking about the little lizard guys in the campaign of the same game. They're just carrying little cleaver things, but they get through easy enough. And those guys aren't any bigger than Ewoks.

Second of all, I have in fact played Republic Commando. I've beaten the campaign at least 4 times, it being my favorite Star Wars game with the possible exception of KotOR. And I still say MC wins, because he's stronger, faster, smarter, better trained, has Cortana at his back, etc. 38's equipment is not demonstratably better than MC's (except the grenades), and MC has the edge in everything else. It's not an easy fight, but MC is just more super than his opponent.

Also, if you've read the books, they specifically state that the MC is the best. It is because of his luck that he's better than the other Spartans (though he also seems to be the best rounded, and the best leader), but even without it he's still far, far, far above the human norm in every way. Try reading the books, since while you're berating others for not playing RC, you also seem just as ignorant of his opponent.

Fourthly, the jackal insta-kill is on Legendary. As in, the setting on which the game cheats (the developers have admitted as much) in order to make it harder. If you can show me one real world human sniper who can pull off the shots they do, with the same regularity, then I'll concede the argument. Problem is, no one can. Hell, I've been shot in the toe and it's been fatal because the game cheats.

The hitting? HE'S BEING HIT BY SOMEONE ELSE WHO CAN ALSO FLIP A TANK OVER WITH THEIR BARE HANDS. MC's punches hurt more than his guns. He's that ridiculously strong. In multiplayer, he's being shot at by someone with equal skill, and who, it being an x-box game, has aim-assist, meaning that something that would never his in real life is a headshot.

Also, no one was saying that he can dodge bullets. That's physically impossible. Looking back, I can't see anyone suggesting that 60 mph is Matrix-speed, because it isn't. So I honestly don't see who you're arguing against. The point is that he's a hell of a lot faster than 38, which is extremely important in a race like this, as well as in combat. His speed does make him far harder to hit, and while 38 can still snipe him, MC can snipe right back with considerably more ease.

Lastly, as has already been stated, it's set in the 26th century. Not 2020, as you so insultingly decide means that MC supporters haven't passed pre-school.

Honestly, if you want people here to respect you, you need to think out your arguments before insulting others as idiots.:smallmad:

[Talkkno]

Actually, no, I'm talking about the little lizard guys in the campaign of the same game. They're just carrying little cleaver things, but they get through easy enough.

You are using game mechanics???!!

[Emperor Tippy]

Also, who says the Cheif was one of the best, there may have been many perfect humans, but the MC is only one of them, who says he was the best out of all of them. (also if you have evidence of a four year old lifting a car, I would enjoy having it, even if I wasn't in this argument...) The only way that he was better than any other Spartans was that according to cortana, "can you guess what it is? Luck." So he could just be another spartan, could be a below average one at that... I agree that the MC could run pretty damn fast, but that still isn't much of an advantage. Sure it's nice, but if you play on legendary (heroic even, ) a jackal with a beam rifle can go *boom, headshot* and thats the end of it all for the MC. A dfendable position with several, alert snipers could take down some supersoldier sprinting across a place, all you need is the right angle. (I litterally sniped some guy on mutliplayer when he had his speed cranked up like 200% all you need is the right angle (no, not a 90 degress,) just a nice little sniping spot and bam)
The UNSC tested well over 90% of the human population under the guise or vaccinations and the like. Out of all of those people only a thousand or so were capable of standing a chance of surviving the augmentation process. Of those thousand something like the 40 best were chosen. 117 wasn't the best or brightest of all the Spartans in every area, he was just the luckiest and the best leader. But he was in the top .000000000001% of humanity in every category, both physical and mental. Out of a trillion people the UNSC could fine a thousand.

[Mr._Blinky]

You are using game mechanics???!!

Well, since everyone seems so insistent on using them for MC, I guess it's only fair.

Besides, if a guy says "This gun can blow up a starship in one shot!" and then I see it fail to scratch the hull, I'm going to follow what has been demonstrated. In the game the armor was designed for, little alien midgets with knives can get through it. Therefore, it takes something significantly smaller than a fuel-rod to get through it. Say, a little alien midget with knives, or something.

[Runar]

Look at the 20th century, or even the 19th. If you asked someone if it was possible to put a man on the moon in 1899, and they likely would have burst out laughing.

Now, since Halo is 500 years in the future, go back in time to the 1500's, about when Gallileo was just being put into prison for saying that the earth revolves around the sun, and tell them that humans will one day land on the moon, and have thermonuclear weapons. You would probably be executed for heresy.

Another point- Lets just say for the sake of argument that a...say...regular battle droid is the same strength as a regular Sentinal. I seem to recal that I could pretty easily, with about one shot with a shotgun in Halo 1, that I could destroy a sentenal. Now, in Republic Commando, the shotgun (apc array gun methinks), was $h*t against droids, only good against organics. Thus, human weapons are somewhat better then 38's weapons, thus giving MC supperior weapons, along with super strength and speed.

[Talkkno]

Another point- Lets just say for the sake of argument that a...say...regular battle droid is the same strength as a regular Sentinal. I seem to recal that I could pretty easily, with about one shot with a shotgun in Halo 1, that I could destroy a sentenal. Now, in Republic Commando, the shotgun (apc array gun methinks), was $h*t against droids, only good against organics. Thus, human weapons are somewhat better then 38's weapons, thus giving MC supperior weapons, along with super strength and speed.
Stop using game mechanics...We clearly see Han's blaster pistol carving nice holes in what appears in concrete in ANH and we see heavy blaster rifles used by clone troopers blow Destroyer droids to bits in the arena battle in AOTC.

[Mr._Blinky]

Stop using game mechanics...We clearly see Han's blaster pistol carving nice holes in what appears in concrete in ANH and we see heavy blaster rifles used by clone troopers blow Destroyer droids to bits in the arena battle in AOTC.

And we see the exact same kind of pistol mildly burn Leia's arm in RotJ.

Teh horrorz!!!1!

[Talkkno]

And we see the exact same kind of pistol mildly burn Leia's arm in RotJ.

Teh horrorz!!!1!

First of all, she was wearing armor, and secondly, Han's blaster pistol is the Desert Eagle of blaster pistols, the scout troopers one is more like one police officers use.

[Mr._Blinky]

First of all, she was wearing armor, and secondly, Han's blaster pistol is the Desert Eagle of blaster pistols, the scout troopers one is more like one police officers use.

Actually, if you watch the movie, they lift up her sleeve and it's just that: a sleeve. She's not wearing armor at all, just her camo, and if she is wearing some sort of protection it isn't on her arms. Which is kind of dumb, but whatever.

Also, the whole real-world comparisons thing actually weakens your argument, since the modern counterparts you cite would actually be doing more damage. There's a reason the military doesn't use Desert Eagles: too overpowered at the expense of accuracy, clip size, etc. Those things take equally sized chips out of walls as that blaster, and a standard policeman's sidearm is going to cause a lot more than a minor burn.

[Talkkno]

Also, the whole real-world comparisons thing actually weakens your argument, since the modern counterparts you cite would actually be doing more damage. There's a reason the military doesn't use Desert Eagles: too overpowered at the expense of accuracy, clip size, etc. Those things take equally sized chips out of walls as that blaster, and a standard policeman's sidearm is going to cause a lot more than a minor burn.

But that is exactly the point i was trying to get arcoss, Han Solo is a man is unlike a professional soldier, Han Solo is a man who expects to get into a gunfight against very limited odds, most likely in the form of a "mano a mano" showdown. The fact that he filed off his iron sights to facilitate the quick-draw (as described in "Han Solo at Star's End") supports this speculation, since that is the sort of act which is virtually incomprehensible for anyone who expects to get into any other kind of combat. Therefore, he packs a gun which sacrifices ammunition for sheer killing power, so that even the most superficial glancing hit is virtually guaranteed to be lethal. While the stormtroopers weren't aiming to kill, remember he asked them to surrender first before he got shot.

[sheepofoblivion]

Now, since Halo is 500 years in the future, go back in time to the 1500's, about when Gallileo was just being put into prison for saying that the earth revolves around the sun, and tell them that humans will one day land on the moon, and have thermonuclear weapons. You would probably be executed for heresy.

Another point- Lets just say for the sake of argument that a...say...regular battle droid is the same strength as a regular Sentinal. I seem to recal that I could pretty easily, with about one shot with a shotgun in Halo 1, that I could destroy a sentenal. Now, in Republic Commando, the shotgun (apc array gun methinks), was $h*t against droids, only good against organics. Thus, human weapons are somewhat better then 38's weapons, thus giving MC supperior weapons, along with super strength and speed.

I seem to recall that the shotgun is made by trandoshans, those, so expertly pointed out as the lizards with cleavers. Not Clone weaponry.

Also, it doesn't matter if someone can run super fast if the island is long and the base is in the middle. He would get hit. at least once, even on heroic, and if you're going to run, I don't care how fast, you will get hit by snipers. Fact of First Person Shooters. Run in open = shot. at least twice, and 1 shot from jackal will take down sheilds, lets say that there are about 10 jackals (there are at more than one point) and a couple brutes, grunts, the brutes shoot at you, you get distracted by them, and while you are running in the open green space with no cover. You. Get. Shot.

Since I'm going to get critisized for everything I say, I might as well be truthful when I say this anyway.

Lets say that the MC wasn't a super man who was the best of all human kind, then it would be fair, but you might as well be saying that 38 is going against super man. Serously. the MC can flip a tank. The MC was the best of the best of all the genetically modified humans in the galaxy. The MC jumped into space and dropped a bomb on a covanent ship with pinpoint accuracy. The MC has superior everything, guns endurance, accuracy. The MC can run at 60 mph. Jackal snipers so can not kill you in one hit, unless the game is using hacks! The MC is awesome. If you read the books, the MC kills everyone. The MC has enhanced mucles, armor, endurance, accuracy, strength, is in the super future, and is super cool.

If the MC wasn't super in every single way, as pointed out by every single frikin MC fan on this thread (other than me) then, than I would keep on typing. But I won't

ps. I actually like the MC more than 38, but I was trying to look at it from a different view, and what happened? every point of my "horrible logic" was torn up and ripped to shreds. If you guys will point out everything I say, look it up on the oh so reliable wikipedia, the Halo books or some other random source, then I don't see the point.

the MC wins

[Gungnir]

You. Get. Shot.
Not. If. You. Stop. Running. And. Take. Cover. Believe it or not, 117 has more than one setting. There's three: Walk, Run, and Kill. The "Run" setting was suggested by Chuck Norris, he said they needed an handicap for the upcoming SPARTAN vs Norris showdown in 2600.

ps. I actually like the MC more than 38, but I was trying to look at it from a different view, and what happened? every point of my "horrible logic" was torn up and ripped to shreds. If you guys will point out everything I say, look it up on the oh so reliable wikipedia, the Halo books or some other random source, then I don't see the point.
That's the point right there. You just stepped on it. This is a nerd fight. Nerd fights consist of citations from Wikipedia and/or the source material. That's pretty much the whole conversation. At least we're using fictional facts, not trying to undermine the arguments with poorly executed sarcasm.

[The_JJ]

Also note: Don't dis the chief because elites can beat him down. They're a SPECISE totally dovoted to war ala samurai style, they are all about 8 ft tall (They consantly crouch over in MP to eqalize target size.) And they can armwrestle the guy in the exosuit with mucles up to 11 to a standstill.

[Mr._Blinky]

I seem to recall that the shotgun is made by trandoshans, those, so expertly pointed out as the lizards with cleavers. Not Clone weaponry.

Also, it doesn't matter if someone can run super fast if the island is long and the base is in the middle. He would get hit. at least once, even on heroic, and if you're going to run, I don't care how fast, you will get hit by snipers. Fact of First Person Shooters. Run in open = shot. at least twice, and 1 shot from jackal will take down sheilds, lets say that there are about 10 jackals (there are at more than one point) and a couple brutes, grunts, the brutes shoot at you, you get distracted by them, and while you are running in the open green space with no cover. You. Get. Shot.

Since I'm going to get critisized for everything I say, I might as well be truthful when I say this anyway.

Lets say that the MC wasn't a super man who was the best of all human kind, then it would be fair, but you might as well be saying that 38 is going against super man. Serously. the MC can flip a tank. The MC was the best of the best of all the genetically modified humans in the galaxy. The MC jumped into space and dropped a bomb on a covanent ship with pinpoint accuracy. The MC has superior everything, guns endurance, accuracy. The MC can run at 60 mph. Jackal snipers so can not kill you in one hit, unless the game is using hacks! The MC is awesome. If you read the books, the MC kills everyone. The MC has enhanced mucles, armor, endurance, accuracy, strength, is in the super future, and is super cool.

If the MC wasn't super in every single way, as pointed out by every single frikin MC fan on this thread (other than me) then, than I would keep on typing. But I won't

ps. I actually like the MC more than 38, but I was trying to look at it from a different view, and what happened? every point of my "horrible logic" was torn up and ripped to shreds. If you guys will point out everything I say, look it up on the oh so reliable wikipedia, the Halo books or some other random source, then I don't see the point.

the MC wins

The problem is that you insist on not only insulting others, but that your logic is poor. You say "Well, if there's no cover and it's a long island and Chief keeps running, a jackal on Legendary can snipe him, or on Heroic if he's distracted!" Problem is A) There's cover in most areas, and if there isn't he can find some, B) He can stop running you know, as well as counter-snipe, C) We're not talking about jackals here who's sniping cheats (and this isn't me whining, the game developers have specifically stated that they designed it so they pretty much can't miss. I've been shot by them while sneaking up from behind, before they turned around), it's one guy without support, who we're using his realistic sniping skill for. Therefore, 38 sniping MC is going to be bloody difficult, at least compared to how MC can snipe back.

We're going mostly off of fluff here, and somewhat off of what has been demonstrated in the games, but citing a completely unrelated enemy as proof that 38 would win is ridiculous. Just because a jackal on Legendary can snipe Chief 90% of the time does not mean that 38 can. I'm still of the definite opinion that they're about even in a fight, but I definitely believe that Chief would win in the second scenario. He's faster, and since they're starting out on opposite sides of the island, it's entirely likely that Chief will be there are gone before 38 can even start trying to snipe him. And don't whine about "Oh, it's unfair for 38, because you're citing all of these things about MC!" That's the bloody point. Otherwise it would just be popularity contest. The whole idea is to decide who would win in the proposed situation, and that will be the one who is better at it. If the question is who wins, a tiger or chihuahua puppy, you don't start complaining that it's unfair when people start talking about how big the tiger's claws are. Now, I'm still of the opinion that in a fight these two are about even, but complaining when people cite MC's speed makes no bloody sense.

[Ozymandias]

In Star Wars, there is sound in space. Top that.

[Talkkno]

In Star Wars, there is sound in space. Top that.

*Sighs*
From the ANH radio play.
"Your sensors'll give you an audio simulation for a rough idea of where those fighters are when they're not on your screen. It'll sound like they're right there in the turret with you."

[Ozymandias]

*Sighs*
From the ANH radio play.
"Your sensors'll give you an audio simulation for a rough idea of where those fighters are when they're not on your screen. It'll sound like they're right there in the turret with you."

I was referring to the explosive laser bolts et al (R2 units beeping) in the space scenes in the movies, but that is a pretty neat explanation (if one that would require a perhaps unwise expenditure of computer processing power).

[SilentNight]

The Chief has far more surgical and mechanical augmentations, including reinforced bones, reaction times measured in nano-seconds,


Kudos to WG. This is in my opinion, the best vs. thread we've had in the month and a half I've been here.

That said, 38 is cloned from a man who has faster reaction time than a droid, not counting he any modifications he may get for being a commando. So they're even on that front.
Peronally I like 38 much better but this is too tough to call. 38 does seem to get killed easier than MC but he has his buddies to back him up. Except for the first half of the Ghost ship.:smallfurious: Also I have to agree that while MC may have more mods, 38 is way more versetile.(spelling?) 38 definately has the better tactical mind though so I would give this to him.

What would be interesting though would be 38 with his squad, thereby making up for the experience disadvantage, vs. two MCs a la co-op play.

[The_JJ]

I agree. Given the squad, 38 wins. Depending on the scenrio, maybe even w/o casualties. But he doesn't so I'd give it to the chief.

[Emperor Tippy]

I agree. Given the squad, 38 wins. Depending on the scenrio, maybe even w/o casualties. But he doesn't so I'd give it to the chief.

And if you give MC his squad then they win.

[The_JJ]

... but the marines suck. :smallsmile:

[SAMAS]

... but the marines suck. :smallsmile:

Who said it was a squad of Marines? What about Linda, Kelly, Fred, and Nicole, among others? :smallbiggrin:

[Mr._Blinky]

Who said it was a squad of Marines? What about Linda, Kelly, Fred, and Nicole, among others? :smallbiggrin:

Many of whom, it should be noted, are specialists, though they don't possess Chief's luck. Kelly was ridiculously fast (she was described as running so fast her enemies couldn't even get a bead on her), Linda was an equally ridiculous sniper (sniped out the pilots of two banshees with headshots, while hanging upside down from the ceiling...without a scope), Sam was the strongest Spartan (though he died almost immediatly after they first got their armor, since they had no shields at that point in time and a jackal plugged him full of plasma during their first fight against the Covenant. Didn't kill him, but since his suit was breached he couldn't leave the ship they'd boarded and died when they had to blow it up).

[The_JJ]

Spartan's win. Hands down.

[ODST]

I hope I'm doing the right thing by reviving this EXTREMELY dead topic.

OK, guys...since you're complaining about the powered armor...I have a good idea.

Let's go back to 2525. When the second suit of MJOLNIR armor, designed by Dr Halsley reaches the Spartans. No shields, just the gel layers. And utilizing the same HUD system from Halo 1. Minus the shielding display.

Delta 38 retains his Katarn armor kit. The shields are extremely underpowered, so it doesn't say much. Now we'll bring up the survival level...again. 38 is armed with a DC-17 and his sidearm. He has extremely limited ammo and is hampered by the fact that he only has one of each grenade.

MC on the other hand is armed with an MA5B and a tactical knife. No, we won't use the energy sword. For ammo, the Chief has 3 clips. He's just finished a firefight with Innie terrorists and is hauling ass back to the LZ.

Now, both have little to no intel on the enemy. Mainly these are the facts. Theres another guy around. Kill the other guy.

Once they both exhaust their ammo it's going to be close quarters. 38 has the vibroblade and John has the tactical knife. Of course, MC can choose to throw it, but if he loses it...well...if he loses it.

Who do you think will win? And don't give me none of that surgically-altered bull****. 38 was born from the genomes of a bounty hunter who killed Jedi with his bare hands. He's every bit as good as the Chief.

[averagejoe]

The Mod They Call Me: Thread necromancy.