OotS and firefly

[krossbow]

Comparing the order of the stick with the characters in firefly, who would you say each character is? Though the characters might not be similiar in their origins or backstory, their theatrical character types do sync up (protagonist, comedy relief, ect.)



Roy would be Malcolm, the protagonist and gruff leader who prevents his team from slitting each others throats and working toward a common goal. Though Roy isn't as funny, and is more morally upstanding than Malcolm, the two have a lot in common.

Elan would be Wash, the comedy relief character, who drives the team leader nuts (like in the episode where Wash and malcom are tied up together and tortured by the mob boss, or the comic where Roy just abandons Elan). Perpetually plucky, but inevitably innefective, Elan and Wash are very similiar. Unfortunately, the two being alike just lends more fuel to the Elan dies in the end fan theory that so many people toss around. Heck, they both even have kick ass warrior second in command girlfriends.

Belkar and Jane Cobb are incredibly similiar. Both are psychotic miscreants who constantly threaten to injure the other members of the party, and engage in rampant destruction; they are also strangely loyal at times.





Who do you think the order is like in firefly, literarilly?

[chionophile]

I feel that this thread has been done before, but whatever. It's still fun.

Haley would likely be a cross between a few of the ladies. I'd say 75% Zoe, 25% Kaylee. Durkon and Book match up reasonably well, both being the religious leaders of their group. V would also probably be a mix. Maybe the other 25% of Zoe and some River. They both have some weird powers and are a bit crazy.

Edit: Oh, and I agree with the parallels you already drew. Those are the easy ones...

[Hyrael]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FiveManBand

because both groups adhere roughly to the five man band framework.

Roy, Malcom: Hero
Haley, Zoe: Lancer
Varrsuvius, Wash/Kaylee: smart guy
Durkon, Jayne: Big Guy
Elan, Wash/Kaylee: the Chick
Belkar, Book: 6th ranger

Simon, river, and Inara are secondary, and not quite part of the core crew. neither is book, but he's closest to 6th ranger.

[TheNovak]

I don't think the Five Man Band trope fits all that comfortably with the OotS, but the Firefly connection's more solid.

Roy and Mal are definitely similiar, I agree with Haley being mostly Zoe, with a little Kaylee, Elan could pass as Wash (especially now that he's somewhat competent), Belkar is Jane, and I really like the Durkon/Book comparison -- not just because of the religious aspect, but because they're both very wise characters who provide the others with guidance and encouragement.

I kinda thought it was weird that no one's compared V to Simon. They're both the smartest people in the group, they both tend to look down on idiots, and (though it took Simon awhile) they both have a great deal of respect for their leaders. The running rivalry between Simon and Jane isn't all that different from the one between V and Belkar, either.

River, Inara, and most of Kaylee are left out in the cold, though. Poor girls.

[Arkenputtyknife]

Roy would be Malcolm, the protagonist and gruff leader who prevents his team from slitting each others throats and working toward a common goal.
Roy prevents his team working toward a common goal? I knew there was something fishy about him!

[Nerd-o-rama]

I don't think the Five Man Band trope fits all that comfortably with the OotS, but the Firefly connection's more solid.
...You are joking about this, right? OotS is one of the purest and probably most intentional Five Man Band+Sixth Ranger examples I've ever read. The only variations from the formula are that The Chick is male and The Big Guy is short (until he spells up).

[krossbow]

Eh, not so sure that belkar qualifies as a sixth ranger. He was around from the beginning, and has existed with a very well defined role. Personally, I think that Belkar and Durkon are both big guy character types, and that Miko was the sixth ranger. She appeared late in the series, and ingrained herself into the group for a reasonable amount of time before her falling out, and even then her fate was intertwined in a way that corrosponded somewhat with the sixth ranger archetype.



That is a really good point about the simon-jane V-belkar situation though. Simon's constant verbal jabs with Jane are very similiar to V's constant belittling of belkar. If you count River's "I can kill you with my mind" line as part of the feud (in a related manner), then its all the more similiar to exploding runes.

[Shatteredtower]

Bah. You'd have as much luck drawing parallels between the OotS cast and that of Firefly as you would with the Peanuts crew.

[Iliad]

Comparing the order of the stick with the characters in firefly, who would you say each character is? Though the characters might not be similiar in their origins or backstory, their theatrical character types do sync up (protagonist, comedy relief, ect.)



Roy would be Malcolm, the protagonist and gruff leader who prevents his team from slitting each others throats and working toward a common goal. Though Roy isn't as funny, and is more morally upstanding than Malcolm, the two have a lot in common.

Elan would be Wash, the comedy relief character, who drives the team leader nuts (like in the episode where Wash and malcom are tied up together and tortured by the mob boss, or the comic where Roy just abandons Elan). Perpetually plucky, but inevitably innefective, Elan and Wash are very similiar. Unfortunately, the two being alike just lends more fuel to the Elan dies in the end fan theory that so many people toss around. Heck, they both even have kick ass warrior second in command girlfriends.

Belkar and Jane Cobb are incredibly similiar. Both are psychotic miscreants who constantly threaten to injure the other members of the party, and engage in rampant destruction; they are also strangely loyal at times.





Who do you think the order is like in firefly, literarilly?

Elan can't die.If you look at the comic 331 he has a happy ending. Of coure he could die but I doubt it

[VetMichael]

Dear god, this thread is like the first time someone put peanut butter and chocolate together!

Malcom/Roy: The Leader (a given)
Wash/Elan: The Comedic Relief (though Wash was WAAAAAY funnier than Elan)
Zoe/Haley: 2nd in command (and happens to love Wash/Elan)
Jane/Belkar: killing machines (I want Belkar to find a weapon he can call "Vera")
Book/Durkon: the preacher man
Kayley/Vaasuvius: The super-smart one nobody really thinks about until they need them.
Inara/Celia: on-again, off-again love interest of Mal/Roy


But that leaves us with River and Simon....Hmmmm. I'm stuck there.

[krossbow]

But that leaves us with River

maybe MitD?

[Green Bean]

But that leaves us with River

Well, Roy does have a level in Psion... :smallbiggrin:

[monty]

Well, Roy does have a level in Psion... :smallbiggrin:

Ah yes, the Future Psychic. By the way, has anybody drawn up stats for that class?

[Allandaros]

I'm just going to point out one thing here:

It's Jayne, not Jane. :furious:

[Icewalker]

(though it took Simon awhile) they both have a great deal of respect for their leaders.

single joke Origins spoiler
Actually, V does as well, in a short exchange with Roy at the beginning.


Yeah, most of them seem to fit. I really like the Durkon/Book connection, it seems quite right.

[VanBuren]

Elan can't die.If you look at the comic 331 he has a happy ending. Of coure he could die but I doubt it

Look at 334, he already got his happy ending. :P

[zyphyr]

River, Inara, and most of Kaylee are left out in the cold, though. Poor girls.

I'd be happy to help keep one or more of them keep warm...

[Shatteredtower]

Let's make this simple: People are comparing apples and oranges and coming up with matches because they happen to like both apples and oranges.

Mal is Roy -- except when he's Elan, mixed in with a two sprigs of Belkar and a dash of Simon.

Zoey is Haley -- except that she's got at least as much in common with Roy and Miko.

Wash is Elan -- but not as much Elan as Roy is Elan.

Jayne is Belkar -- only not really. When it comes to family, he's Durkon. When it comes to fighting, he's a cross between Roy and V. When it comes to ideas, he's Elan. When it comes to greed, he's Haley. When it comes to chasing women, he's a cross between Roy and Belkar.

Kaylee is V -- well, no. V is not a constructive personality. If anything, Kaylee is Durkon for the magic she does, Haley for her romantic difficulties.

Book is Durkon -- except for, y'know, the decent Charisma score, the terrible secret past, and the connections. Respectively, that makes him Roy, Haley, and possibly Nale. Or the combination makes him Shojo.

Inara is Celia -- both professional women in respectable jobs, though many dispute the "respectable" status. She's also Haley for how well she hides a secret (the bow is incidental).

Simon is Durkon for healing, Elan for naivete, and V for communication skills. Or he's Hinjo.

River is a cross between Belkar, Miko, Thog, V, and the personification of Haley's self-loathing given form.

To put it another way, the elephant isn't a tree, a fan, or a snake. It's an elephant.

[LordSintax]

Let's make this simple: People are comparing apples and oranges and coming up with matches because they happen to like both apples and oranges.

Mal is Roy -- except when he's Elan, mixed in with a two sprigs of Belkar and a dash of Simon.

Zoey is Haley -- except that she's got at least as much in common with Roy and Miko.

Wash is Elan -- but not as much Elan as Roy is Elan.

Jayne is Belkar -- only not really. When it comes to family, he's Durkon. When it comes to fighting, he's a cross between Roy and V. When it comes to ideas, he's Elan. When it comes to greed, he's Haley. When it comes to chasing women, he's a cross between Roy and Belkar.

Kaylee is V -- well, no. V is not a constructive personality. If anything, Kaylee is Durkon for the magic she does, Haley for her romantic difficulties.

Book is Durkon -- except for, y'know, the decent Charisma score, the terrible secret past, and the connections. Respectively, that makes him Roy, Haley, and possibly Nale. Or the combination makes him Shojo.

Inara is Celia -- both professional women in respectable jobs, though many dispute the "respectable" status. She's also Haley for how well she hides a secret (the bow is incidental).

Simon is Durkon for healing, Elan for naivete, and V for communication skills. Or he's Hinjo.

River is a cross between Belkar, Miko, Thog, V, and the personification of Haley's self-loathing given form.

To put it another way, the elephant isn't a tree, a fan, or a snake. It's an elephant.

A-freakin men, brother.

[Alysar]

Elan can die and get his happy ending IF



Elan and Haley both die together saving the world from the snarl and get to spend eternity together in the Chaotic Good afterlife

[Mythlor]

On the Firefly 1st season DVD set, Joss Whedon states that he wanted to break the "FiveManBand" stereotype that he used in Buffy the Vampire Slayer and go with a nine member crew which would be more suited for a television season of 20+ episodes. Television allowed Joss more time for character growth than a movie where he could not fully explore nine characters in two hours. This is why all eight characters of the crew were on the box cover and considered of "equal" value to the plot/storyline with Malcolm being the main lead.

Oh and BTW, Serenity the ship is stated by Joss as the "10th" crew member, also on the box cover.

On Serenity the Firefly movie, Joss also states that he used the deaths of Wash and Sheppard Book to increase drama and uncertainty of the audience leading up to the climax and conclusion.

Added Spoiler box by request.

[Icewalker]

PLEASE spoiler that, Mythlor. I've already seen it, but other people haven't. Geez. :smallfurious:

[Souju]

PLEASE spoiler that, Mythlor. I've already seen it, but other people haven't. Geez. :smallfurious:

there's a statute of limitations on spoilers
btw:
King Kong dies, Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's father, Rhett doesn't give a damn, Soylent Green is made out of people, it was Earth all along, the shrink is actually dead, Boromir dies, and Ewoks save the day.

[Leto]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/TylerXKJ/motivator25075.jpg

[Spiky]

A-freakin men, brother.

Thirded. Firefly doesn't equal OOTS. It didn't years ago in the first thread like this, and it still doesn't. And Shattered didn't even really specify the biggest problem. Good vs Evil.

It can't compare to real life people, either. D&D is completely unclouded. Good is Good, Evil is Evil, and a few are Neutral. If you break the rules of who you are, you fall. And we have an OOTS example shown with neat colors to make it real obvious for the comic. Real life, and fictional characters more like real life (like Firefly), is way too complicated to compare with D&D's limited scope. Everyone has shades of everything IRL.

[Souju]

Thirded. Firefly doesn't equal OOTS. It didn't years ago in the first thread like this, and it still doesn't. And Shattered didn't even really specify the biggest problem. Good vs Evil.

It can't compare to real life people, either. D&D is completely unclouded. Good is Good, Evil is Evil, and a few are Neutral. If you break the rules of who you are, you fall. And we have an OOTS example shown with neat colors to make it real obvious for the comic. Real life, and fictional characters more like real life (like Firefly), is way too complicated to compare with D&D's limited scope. Everyone has shades of everything IRL.

a GOOD D&D campaign has shades of grey for its heroes and villains
and the alignment shift for Miko wasn't all flashy for nothing, she was a paladin, meaning her entire class and abilities was essentially tied to her alignment. Killing her Lord pissed off the gods, who stripped her of her powers. The same result would've occurred if Hinjo or any paladin did the same thing, but wouldn't have occurred if Roy, Haley, Vaarsuvius, Durkon (well, maybe Thor would be unhappy), the Kato Kouple, a Flumph, Elan, the captain on the dock, any of the numerous soldiers, or hell ANY non paladin had killed the old dude.

[nybbler]

Roy: Charlie Brown
Haley: Peppermint Patty
Vaarsuivius: Marcy or Linus
Durkon: Snoopy
Belkar: Lucy
Elan: Frieda

[Dash Buckler]

Roy/Mal: No question. They're both no nonsense leaders who only occasionally get to be the funny one. Although their alignments don't match (I think of Mal as chaotic good) they're still both the only one's that can control the token evil teammate (Belkar/Jayne). Bonus points for SPOILER ALERT! both dying and being brought back to life at some point.

Belkar/Jayne: As stated before, they each get to be the token evil teammate, and some of the real muscle in the group, and even though they're both chaotic evil, they do exibit consciences every now and again. They even have roughly the same green/brown colour palate for wardrobe.

Elan/Wash: The plucky comic relief, usually ineffectual although occasionally useful to outright badass. They're also both blonde and dating the woman who's second in command.

Haley/Zoe(and a bit of Kaylee): They're both female and second in command (and as stated involved with the CR). Whenever Haley is acting more typically girly (in the cute way, not sissy way) that's Kaylee taking over. Zoe and Haley share a leather vest and long brown pants outfit and a similar hairdo, as well as being the long-ranged fighter of the team. Lastly, don't tell me I'm the only one to notice the rhyming names. (Haley, Kaylee)

Durkon/Book: Holy men wearing grey outfits and acting as moral guidance to the leader, as well as the rest of the party. And even though they're men of god, they'll still wipe the floor with you in a fight. In two words: Religious Powerhouse.

Vaarsuvius/The Tams: They're all the smartest, well the most educated anyway, members of their teams, and it comes across in V and Simon's vocabulary and speech patterns. River is closer to the magical abilities than Simon is, but Simon belittles Jayne's hit-it-with-a-stick approach the same way V does to Belkar. I was ready to just make V Simon and forget about River, but with the elven gender ambiguity why not make V one of each?

Lastly, Celia/Inara: They're both these in-and-out characters who only show up when they're needed, and carry this otherworldly grace about them, Celia's being from another world and Inara coming from more high class society. They've both also got a history of pulling some strings with higher powers to benefit the main party. The main difference here is that Celia is dating Roy, whereas Mal and Inara just have enough UST to power a small village.

Let me know if I missed anything.:smallsmile:

[Wraithlord]

Congratulations, you have become an honorary necromancer, for resurrecting a thread that is 5 years old! You win an imaginary Internet! :smallwink: