OOTS #527 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

EDIT: Having some difficulties getting it to show up, actually, hold on...

[caboose117]

wat??? doesn't work o_0

o nvm. it works xD



LOL. Maybe Haley's spot check lowered due to the Wights? Reminds me of the ninja goblin :D

[DoomITP]

love ur work rich! KEEP IT a'goin!

[Mee]

YAY! New comic, it might not work yet, but it's up! Thank you for making my favorite web comic ever. (I just wanted to say that. Thanks again.):smallbiggrin:

[The Giant]

OK, problem solved. You should be able to see the comic now (refresh the page if you can't).

[BardicDuelist]

Perfect punchline.

[Teioh]

Heh, pretty nice comic, though I wonder why Haley can't see Roy. Maybe there is some genetic connection needed, or something like true ownership of the sword?

[Tim]

lol, nice one. Guess he still has to learn to "manifest"... But he's not a real ghost in strict DnD terms, is he?

[Doopliss]

I feel sorry for Roy... If he doesn't work this out before going back up, Eugene will never let him live it down. :smallannoyed: :smallfrown:

[RTGoodman]

Hey, look - a new comic while I was actually on the site!


This actually reminds me of a terrible movie I watched last night, called The Invisible. This, of course, was much better. :smallsmile:

[Hallavast]

Took you long enough to figure it out, Roy. Yeesh, I thought you were smart or something...

[jmucchiello]

Apparently It takes a little more than just showing up to manifest the way Eugene did. You just know Dad is laughing hard up there.

[Lira]

Aww, Haley talks to Roy's body. That's cute. However I still do hope that Roy quickly figures out a way to make her able to see him.
Great comic. :D

[Shott]

Haley can't see dead people. =(

[Courier]

You had me going there for a second. It was kind of sweet to see Haley airing her troubles to Roy, even if it's not quite how I (or he) expected.

[Szilard]

Another good comic!

[Raging_Pacifist]

Uh-Oh Roy thats not good! Great Comic!

[Fitzclowningham]

I wonder if Belkar will be able to 'see' him. Maybe via scent. Or will Roy hang in the background and comment? Hmm...

[SolkaTruesilver]

Sadly, I saw it about on the 5th panel :smallfrown:

But it's all right. I actually really really like Roy's speech. so Kudos to Giant

[Mauve Shirt]

Awwww I hope he can fix it before he has to talk to his dad again.

[Yubari]

I had no idea Haley was taking her new position so seriously, or realized how precarious their position was. Yay for character development! Her assessment of Xykon's overall lack of vulnerability is making me nervous, though. Has he really gotten that much stronger and more powerful while Roy was away?

:smallredface: Found a small typo. In the fourth panel, I'm pretty sure Haley meant to say "rescue".

[Vox]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but doesn't the subject have to be asleep to see the Greenhilt ghost? Or do you actually have to be a Greenhilt for that to work?

I'm sensing some horrible "Ghost" parodies as Roy manipulates his environment to communicate with his friends.....

I hope not, but still, it's a possibility.

[Jade Falcon]

Haley talks to a rotten corpse .. kind of creepy. But I guess you get used to it when you have that thing around for months :smallbiggrin:

[wumpus]

Doesn't he have to wait till Haley eats some of Bekar's cooking, or otherwise is open to halucination? If he can't monkey with reality at all (and who would expect him to be able to), this might take until the plot requires it.

[ChaosDefender24]

One wonders whether Roy simply hasn't manifested yet or there's another problem entirely; if Burlew is in keeping with the D&D cosmology here, the Ethereal Plane would look noticeably different from the Material Plane and thus Roy would not be on it at this point (He has been so far, the Upper Planes and Lower Planes have both shown to be present). However, if Roy is an actual ghost, he would probably end up on the Ethereal Plane by default.

In other words, I have no idea what's going on.

[Kyeudo]

Great Comic. I love Roy. I never realized before how funny Roy was, but with him gone everyone else has seemed so much less funny. Even Belkar. I didn't know it was possible for Belkar to be less funny!

[Jonathan327]

Nice touch to see Haley keeping Roy's corpse in the loop. Really shows he's missed.

[xyzchyx]

One wonders whether Roy simply hasn't manifested yet or there's another problem entirely; if Burlew is in keeping with the D&D cosmology here, the Ethereal Plane would look noticeably different from the Material Plane and thus Roy would not be on it at this point (He has been so far, the Upper Planes and Lower Planes have both shown to be present). However, if Roy is an actual ghost, he would probably end up on the Ethereal Plane by default.If I remember my D&D cosmology correctly, the Ethereal plane only borders the prime material plane and other inner planes, whereas the outer planes are connected to the prime material only by the astral plane, so that would seem to imply that Roy is actually an astral creature at the moment.

[serpent615]

haha, brilliant!!!!

I really thought it was working there two...

[Iliad]

I thought she was actually talking to Roy. Didn't realise at all

[musicnerd]

I realized she couldn't hear him right from the beginning, but it was really touching. There must not be anyone for her to confide in. Poor Haley. :smallfrown:

[Zakama]

Wasn't there some special reason Eugene could talk to Roy? Crap, I don't know... *Goes to check*

EDIT: Found it. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0291.html

[dogmac]

Awww, poor Haley. Talking to a corpse as the only relief you have.

I wanna hug her now.

[teratorn]

One of the bad things about reading the forums is that someone proposed just this, and so I guessed it in the first panel. Good roleplaying on the part of Haley though.

[HOLEkevin]

I guess we're all recapped up now. I'm expecting big things soon!

[Fitzclowningham]

Roy better give her a big hug when he turns up for real.

[teratorn]

I guess we're all recapped up now. I'm expecting big things soon!

Then maybe not. There must be a purpose in this Roy getting into the material plane thing.

It would be funny if somehow only Belkar could see Roy. Julia is a Greenhilt and she would do but she doesn't have the sword.

[Gnomish Wanderer]

I, sadly, also had it really early. It was kinda predictable, even if a little sad. Still a great comic though.

[Covenantwgw]

Awwww...it's cute to see Haley all vulnerable and uncertain. Good to know she can still turn to Roy after all this time.

[Aethir]

Excellent strip as always!

It's just like Roy was alive again :)

[Blaznak]

Wow. It ain't easy bein' dead...
I wonder if Roy will get to actually materialize or get the trick of it. Or how many OTHER ghosts haunt the battlefields.
Fun to wonder.
Later!

[ss49]

Thanks, Eugene. One might think the desire to move on would motivate someone to be helpful, instead of going for the quick joke.

Or maybe not.

[Shadic]

Haley and Roy have pretty good comedic chemistry.. Even if Haley can't see/hear him.

[TheNovak]

Heh, I thought Haley talking to Roy's corpse was pretty sweet. Good stuff.

[CasESenSITItiVE]

Great comic! Yay for random updates while on the forums

[hajo]

she couldn't hear him right from the beginning
It looks like Roy should have talked with his archon about visting the earth, manifesting etc.
OTOH, that little guy was present (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0525.html) and did not give any hints or warnings :smallconfused:

[caboose117]

heh. i just noticed roy doesn't wear pants.

[tenguro]

hehe haley's going crazy, I can tell

[mause]

hehe this is a funny one

but it feels weird have a update on monday instead of friday or saturday

[slayerx]

Heh, pretty nice comic, though I wonder why Haley can't see Roy. Maybe there is some genetic connection needed, or something like true ownership of the sword?

It's could just simply the case that Haley may need to actually be touching the sword in order to see and hear Roy

[memnarch]

Poor Roy.

Good comic though.:smalltongue:

[silvadel]

Tsuikiko could probably see him

[Half-blood]

poor Roy indeed. I'll have to look up the manifestation rules...again... I guess that it might be that she needs to

A: hold the sword

and/or

B: Be of greenhilt lineage

[Warlord JK]

Poor Roy. I wonder how you get back up to the clouds from the ground though...

[Aereshaa_the_2nd]

I've gotten that feeling that people can't hear me sometimes too.
Avvxx0m3 comic, Rich.:smallsmile:

[Draz74]

This worked perfect for me -- I didn't realize that Haley couldn't actually see him until the very end, but the whole time I was getting that sense of, "something's wrong here ... Haley's not acting like she should ..."

I'm with the theory that she has to be sleeping to see him. It would be delicious irony if Roy, unbeknownst to himself, was asleep all those times he saw Dad in the Dungeon of Dorukan.

As far as getting back up to the clouds ... springboard again off the ghost Flumph?

[the_tick_rules]

oh roy, even in death there is no rest for you.

[Grey Watcher]

I figured out pretty early on that Haley was talking to Roy's corpse, not Roy's spirit. I'm putting myself down under the theory that Eugene could only manifest to Roy, therefore Roy can only manifest to Julia now.

[Balkash]

Lol. Clever one there Giant.:smallwink:

[humanpylon]

I figured out pretty early on that Haley was talking to Roy's corpse, not Roy's spirit. I'm putting myself down under the theory that Eugene could only manifest to Roy, therefore Roy can only manifest to Julia now.

Yeah I'm in agreement. Which means that Eugene is even more of a jackass for not telling him.

[Yoritomo Himeko]

:smallsigh: So close and yet so far away. I hope Roy can manifest to her soon.

I wonder if Cloister has anything to do with Roy's problem.

[OmegaDonut]

I figured out pretty early on that Haley was talking to Roy's corpse, not Roy's spirit. I'm putting myself down under the theory that Eugene could only manifest to Roy, therefore Roy can only manifest to Julia now.

I dunno, Eugene never specifically mentioned that he had to manifest to a descendant or relative of his, though (SOD spoilers follow)

you do if you're using the Celestial Realm phone line instead.

Maybe Haley has to be keeping the sword on her person first?

[F.H. Zebedee]

Maybe his father was invisible too, but just cast an illusion to make people see him? Would make some sense.

[H. Zee]

Heeheehee. Great Sixth Sense-style twist, never even saw it coming. Awesome.

[Raging_Pacifist]

Either;

A: Haley needs touch the sword

B: Be of Greenhilt lineage

C: Be asleep

D: The sword no longer works because it lost power when it was sundered

Or any combimation of the above

[Jowston]

Pretty sure it has to be along the lines that Haley isn't holding onto the sword or keeping it on her person. But the asleep idea does raise wonder as to if Roy could somehow communicate with Haley, at least in her dreams.

[Raging_Pacifist]

Yeah, what if its like dream or something.

[Jowston]

It'd be a dream of Elan, and treasure. And can have some laughs of Roy dealing with the personification of Elan in Haley's dream. :smalltongue:

[Raging_Pacifist]

No like the DnD spell 'Dream' where you talk to someone in their dream.

[David Argall]

Theories: Haley can't see Roy because of lack of contact with the sword or
lack of family ancestry or sleeping. My bet definitely not lack of ancestry. That is too much a deadend. Sleeping is more reasonable, but 39 suggests Roy was awake at the time. [Of course this logic assumes the strip values things like consistency and following the rules over quick cheap humor, something that a few people have questioned.] But touching the sword gives us all sorts of story options, and so I will bet on it. I won't bet on who [the cat??], but somebody is going to touch the sword and see Roy.

Originally Posted by Grey Watcher
I'm putting myself down under the theory that Eugene could only manifest to Roy, therefore Roy can only manifest to Julia now.



Yeah I'm in agreement. Which means that Eugene is even more of a jackass for not telling him.
You are not thinking of what kind of jackass Eugene is. He would never pass up a chance to tell Roy his plan is impossible, as any mage would know. But of course a mere meat shield might be dumb enough to try such an idea. Eugene did allow Roy to try to scan, but he still got the chance to rag on Roy soon. Delaying that pleasure for all the time it takes for Roy to go down and come back is just not the Eugene style. So Eugene expects it is possible for the idea to work.

[Hyrael]

Hmmmmmm. Maybe I'm imagining things, but...I rich actually enjoying his work again?

I dont know why, up until the last few strips, I had the funny feeling that rich has been slogging through things for a while...no site updates aside from the actual comic, certain threads complaining about how the comic has no direction. The quality was as good as always, of course, but I got a funny guilty feeling that we fans were kind of...being jerks. or he was a bit ill again.

the point is that, the last few strips, give me the impression that Rich might be feeling a bit better. On subject matter that he really wants to write about. It shows, you know?

I know he's a private guy who doesnt exactly pour out his heart and soul to his fans; I respect that greatly, and I dont want to give the impression that I'm prying.

Just saying that today's strip was quietly, subtly poignant without being sappy, had a nice buildup to the inevitable punchline, provided character development for haley, and in general, was very good. it also leaves the juicy mechanical mystery of why Haley cant hear or see roy: i'm betting he has to either be holding the sword, be a blood relative, or doesnt have the wisdom score to see ghosts (maybe you need 'second sight' or something. or a wis above 13/15. her wisdom's probably lower than roy's is)

[Felixaar]

Im betting on touch the sword.

We should do an online personality test - tell what kind of person you are based on why you think Haley cant see Roy!

[Raging_Pacifist]

huh. True that.

[Nerd_Paladin]

Well that one was telgraphed from panel one. Actually, technically panel three, but still...

[Jimorian]

My out of left field guess:

Only Mr. Scruffy will be able to see Roy, and somehow Roy will have to communicate via Mr. Scruffy --> Belkar --> Haley. If he wasn't already bald, he'd be pulling out his hair in frustration at that task. :smallwink:

[Falconer]

Yet another person saying: Great job, Giant. Keep at it. you're doing great work here, and it's really funny stuff. Good job.


As for thoughts on why haley can't see roy: I think it probably has something to do with the sword, though business with Mr. Scruffy would be hilarious, too.

[North]

Damn. Aw poor Roy. The worst part is going to be having Eugene being all smug about it.

[warmachine]

I reckon Haley must have the sword in her possession i.e. she must carry it.

[spite48]

It has been a long time since I have commented, but I must say, today's comic was well executed. I don't think it would have been easy to write without giving it away too early.

[Elrond]

how do i put an avatar on?:belkar: WWWoooooooooooooo!!!!!! belkar rules

[Niknokitueu]

Nice work, Rich.

Some comics make you laugh, some make you sad, some make you think and some make you glad.

Today's was definitely a sad comic.
Poor Haley...
Poor Roy...
Belkar has a cat!
(heh heh)

Keep up the good work!

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

[dsavereide]

My out of left field guess:

Only Mr. Scruffy will be able to see Roy, and somehow Roy will have to communicate via Mr. Scruffy --> Belkar --> Haley. If he wasn't already bald, he'd be pulling out his hair in frustration at that task. :smallwink:
It may be out there, but made me laugh thinking about it.

[carais]

Typo: panel 4, rescu_r_e mission

Now waiting for how long it takes Roy to be seen.

[Nerd_Paladin]

It has been a long time since I have commented, but I must say, today's comic was well executed. I don't think it would have been easy to write without giving it away too early.

You mean the calm "Hi Roy" didn't tip you off? I'm sorry, but that was eye-rollingly predictable. Just my opinion.

[RMS Oceanic]

My out of left field guess:

Only Mr. Scruffy will be able to see Roy, and somehow Roy will have to communicate via Mr. Scruffy --> Belkar --> Haley. If he wasn't already bald, he'd be pulling out his hair in frustration at that task. :smallwink:

Very Terry Pratchetty. I like it!

[Irbis]

I remember readng that people with Spot skill high enough can actually notice even ghosts. Is that true?

If so, how many ranks Haley lacks? :smallwink:

[FujinAkari]

I remember readng that people with Spot skill high enough can actually notice even ghosts. Is that true?

If so, how many ranks Haley lacks? :smallwink:

No, that is false. Your spot skill can -never- reveal the presence of an invisible creature.(barring extenuating circumstances, like footprints in fresh snow).

For an extra-dimensional creature... even more no. :P


You mean the calm "Hi Roy" didn't tip you off? I'm sorry, but that was eye-rollingly predictable. Just my opinion.

Indeed! Whenever anyone says hello to me, I automatically assume they cannot see or hear me! Its obvious!

[Woof]

Man, things really aren't working out for the OOTS, are they? Poor Roy.

[Irbis]

No, that is false. Your spot skill can -never- reveal the presence of an invisible creature.(barring extenuating circumstances, like footprints in fresh snow).

For an extra-dimensional creature... even more no. :P


http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#spot

Really? :smallamused:

[Mojique]

Mistake in line 2, panel 1: must be "rescuer" than "rescure".

[pondshadow]

great comic possible title for 528: "manifest" destiny

[Aristeidis]

touching. hope to see more oots comics soon

[Ink]

Why do I get the feeling that Eugene knew all along that it wouldn't work and just decided not to tell his son? Wouldn't surprise me in the least. :smallamused:

My money is on lineage and the ancestral sword, meaning Roy can only manifest to Julia, if and only if Julia has the Greenhilt blade with her. What, did anyone expect things to be that easy?

[Fingolfin]

That end scene wasn't so unexpected but still a good comic :smallamused:

[hajo]

how do i put an avatar on?

User CP
Edit Options
Miscellaneous Options / Avatar

See also FAQ (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/faq.php?faq=vb_user_maintain#faq_vb_avatar_how) / "How do I get a picture under my username?"

Note: the Avatar List (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/misc.php?do=showavatars) tells "There are no pre-defined avatars available."
This is misleading. There is a forum-post with all the default-avatars (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9255), but it would be nice if it would be linked from the FAQ, and also from the page with the user-options :smalltongue:

[Pyro]

Hmmmm whats with Haley. O well great surprising comic I didn't expect that to happen.

[CGM3]

Belkar has a cat!
(heh heh)

More likely, Mister Scruffy now has a homicidal halfling ranger/barbarian. :smallwink:

[chibibar]

Heh.... THAT was great....

*still laughing*

[Vulion]

Great comic, Rich. It's nice to see the different sides of our beloved characters like this.

[Useless]

Aww, that made me tear up slightly. Especially Roy's pause before saying his last lines.

It think it'd be funny to see some random rebel touch the sword and Roy appear (talking to himself) while they're touching it, then they drop it, then pick it up again...
Obviously wouldn't work if they need to be of Greenhilt ancestory.

[Niknokitueu]

More likely, Mister Scruffy now has a homicidal halfling ranger/barbarian. :smallwink:
"You say potato, I say potato..."
Hmm. Does not work so well in print...

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

[HolderofSecrets]

I have the strangest feeling that only Belker and his cat will be able to see Roy. I can see it now Belker walks in and looks at Roy and says hey and Roy thinks Belker is talking to his body but Belker is really talking to him. It would also be a great time for Belker to point out that just because he is Psychotic doesn't mean he is crazy enough to talk to a dead body.

The only reason it is like that is probably because of the mark which is the only real connection between Roy and Belker but the Mark is still more of a connection then Roy has with any of the rest of the party. Plus the whole idea seems like something a DM would do.

[Nightfall]

Haley...pick...up...the...sword.

I believe she'll actually have to touch it for Roy to become apparent to her. Just a thought. Poor Roy! I realized quickly when she didn't respond directly to his comments that she wasn't seeing him.

[Crimson Avenger]

Love it. Great "Sixth Sense" reference!

[Maddgief]

Brilliant!

[dish]

The only reason it is like that is probably because of the mark which is the only real connection between Roy and Belker ...

Ok, that's much more workable than having to drag Julia out of her college in order to communicate. I approve of this idea.

[The Tygre]

Hmm, I have a sneaking suspicion that Celia is somehow involved in all this...

Keep up the good work, Giant!

[Johnny Blade]

Good comic. I could see it coming from the very beginning, but it was nice to see it all unfold until Roy finally got the memo. That was one of those comics that don't really crack me up but leave me smiling for a few minutes straight.


I have the strangest feeling that only Belker and his cat will be able to see Roy. I can see it now Belker walks in and looks at Roy and says hey and Roy thinks Belker is talking to his body but Belker is really talking to him. It would also be a great time for Belker to point out that just because he is Psychotic doesn't mean he is crazy enough to talk to a dead body.

The only reason it is like that is probably because of the mark which is the only real connection between Roy and Belker but the Mark is still more of a connection then Roy has with any of the rest of the party. Plus the whole idea seems like something a DM would do.
Seems like we have come up with the same idea at the same time, just in different threads (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71507).
Well, besides just throwing in my "me too", I'd like to say that in this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0291.html), Eugene speaks of a "metaphysical link", something the MoJ would qualify for.

(By the way, I don't get why Mr. Scruffy should be able to see Roy, unless that'd be due to some detail about animal companions I have totally forgotten. Not that it really matters, though.:smallwink: )

[TroyXavier]

The best laid plans of mice and men...poor Roy, good comic.

[Zurpl]

That's the first time I noticed Roy not using his Intelligence bonus on his DUH! (she's talking to corpse) check. (Basically, I saw the punchline coming the first time Haley spoke.:smallsigh:) I'm still waiting for the next really good joke I don't actually see coming.

By the way why does the MoJ qualify as a "metaphysical link"?

[HolderofSecrets]

(By the way, I don't get why Mr. Scruffy should be able to see Roy, unless that'd be due to some detail about animal companions I have totally forgotten. Not that it really matters, though.:smallwink: )

For the most part, animals normally can detect undead. I really don't know why but its kind of common in the movies. Besides as an Animal companion the cat would have an Empathic Link with Belkers mind, as scary as that sounds to have a link to belkers mind at all, would allow the animal companion to atleast be aware of Roy's presense. In games I tend to treat this as the Ranger or the Druid is aware of anything the Animal companion senses though they themselves may not see it.

[factotum]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#spot

Really? :smallamused:

That's describing the EPIC version of Spot, and Xykon is the only character in the strip with a high enough level to be using that.

[Johnny Blade]

By the way why does the MoJ qualify as a "metaphysical link"?
Well, it is of magical origin, so it is metaphysical. Yeah, that's all I can come up with, sorry.:smallwink:
To elaborate at least a bit, according to the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/markOfJustice.htm), it is permanent. And while it does not physically exist, it is created by actually writing on the target creature.
It is a link because of the specific act that was chosen to trigger the MoJ.


@HolderofSecrets:
Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I thought the whole Empathic Link thing was reserved for familiars.

[osyluth]

Maybe if Haley gets the Greenhilt sword (by the way, where is it right now?) then she'll be able to see Roy. Bit weird tough, I've always thought of Haley as someone who would loot a corpse, not talk to it.

[DrivinAllNight]

i'm gonna go with Roy being able to talk to Belkar because of the MoJ, which will be really odd, since just about no one is going to believe that Belkar is talking to the ghost of Roy. But comedy will ensue :)

[David Argall]

I remember readng that people with Spot skill high enough can actually notice even ghosts. Is that true?

PH: "A spot check result higher than 20 generally lets you become aware of an invisible creature near you, though you can't actually see it."

However, Roy is not merely invisible. He is in some vaguely defined sense not even present. He barely interacts with "reality" at all, meaning there is almost nothing to spot, and one would likely need a spot in excess of 50 to notice him.




I don't get why Mr. Scruffy should be able to see Roy, unless that'd be due to some detail about animal companions I have totally forgotten.
Animals, cats in particular, often look at "nothing" as far as the human can determine. There are presumably good animal reasons for this [which can include the cat is practicing his stalking], but the idea easily comes to mind that the cat sees some spirit the human can't see. So it is possible that idea will be used here.

[Animefunkmaster]

at first I was "???" then I was "Awwww" finally I was ":smallsmile:"

[Raider]

Good comic, expected ending.

Keep 'um coming Big G

[Useless]

Animals, cats in particular, often look at "nothing" as far as the human can determine.

In Terry Pratchet books cats can see Death, they may be able to see the dead as well.

[Nerd_Paladin]

Indeed! Whenever anyone says hello to me, I automatically assume they cannot see or hear me! Its obvious!

If your appearance is sudden, unexpected, and alarming/frightening but they do not react in any unusual manner to it, and if there is a nearby proxy that they are obviously adressing, I think think that assumption is indeed perfectly obvious. Especially if it's not you but instead a character in a comic strip where a humorous end to every scenario is virtually a given, and if that character's trademarked quality is that his every effort to achieve his goals is constantly frustrated by a combination of bad luck, inept allies, and meddling by outside forces.

Sorry, #527 was predictable, as soon as we got to the end of the last comic I said "No one will be able to see him" and it was painfully obvious by the end of the third panel of this one that I was correct.

[Vuzzmop]

Wonderful, more predictable filler.:smallsigh:

[WuanAnselm]

Sorry, #527 was predictable, as soon as we got to the end of the last comic I said "No one will be able to see him" and it was painfully obvious by the end of the third panel of this one that I was correct.

Well, apparently, not everyone is as perceptive as you are :smallsigh: I didn't saw that one coming personally and it made for a nice strip

[shadowdemon_lord]

What a sweet, sad comic. Very nice work Giant.

[Shas aia Toriia]

A great comic, but I don't know why Haley can't see Roy. . .

[Doug Lampert]

That's describing the EPIC version of Spot, and Xykon is the only character in the strip with a high enough level to be using that.Nope, read the rulebook. You need not be epic to use the DCs in the Epic skills section. And in this case the DC is well within the reach of a non-epic character.

[ref]

Seems Roy is in trouble.

[David Argall]

Wonderful, more predictable filler.

Predictable possibly, but not filler [& I am fairly fast to call filler]. We have a definite plot development in Roy having trouble making contact. Now one might claim the point is padded and could be handled in half the space, but such still means we have plot elements, and thus the strip is non-filler. Not to mention that jokes like this one are often better for the longer you can string them out. We get the greater chance to laugh at Roy.

[Sequinox]

:smallfrown: Come on, lets get the plot MOVING!

EDIT: Oh god, thet're gonna kill me for saying that! I just meant that I'd like to move the plot out of Azure city (and its surrounding waters)

[Johnny Blade]

Animals, cats in particular, often look at "nothing" as far as the human can determine. There are presumably good animal reasons for this [which can include the cat is practicing his stalking], but the idea easily comes to mind that the cat sees some spirit the human can't see. So it is possible that idea will be used here.
Oh yes, I know. My cat actually goes a step further and hunts imaginary flies, birds, or whatever it thinks of. Given its preferences, it might be flying cheese.

Anyway, I still don't see this coming, simply because it would take a long time for everyone to understand why Mr. Scruffy is behaving a little odd. (If of course another character, which in my opinion will be Belkar, can see Roy too, this is a moot point and Mr. Scruffy may as well see his ghost.)

[Healer Hobo]

Aww, Haley talks to Roy's body. That's cute.




And slightly creepy.:smalleek:

[sheepofoblivion]

:haley: I see don't see dead people !!!

It could be something about roy thinking that the sword is his grandfathers... I doubt that Eugene thinks that it's his, but at least he thinks that its not anyone else's (sorry if someone already said that...)

[BURNhollywoodBURN]

Oooh. Classic The Invisible. Poor Roy. Not like he accomplished anything by being down there anyway. I mean, he had such a good speech...
EDIT:
This actually reminds me of a terrible movie I watch last night, called The Invisible. This, of course, was much better. :smallsmile:
Oh my god, I posted this without knowing that this post existed. Forum minds think alike, I guess.

[FujinAkari]

Wonderful, more predictable filler.:smallsigh:

I'm getting a bit tired of seeing things like this... -everything- is predictable once it happens.

Here, tell me what will happen in strip 528, THEN we'll see if things are predictable :P

[Raging_Pacifist]

Exactly, why is nearly everybody being so cynical. Everything is obvious once you know it so go ahead and predict 528.

[Johnny Blade]

If anyone actually does this, I'm going to hate this person, simply for potentially ruining the next strip.

[humanpylon]

You are not thinking of what kind of jackass Eugene is. He would never pass up a chance to tell Roy his plan is impossible, as any mage would know. But of course a mere meat shield might be dumb enough to try such an idea. Eugene did allow Roy to try to scan, but he still got the chance to rag on Roy soon. Delaying that pleasure for all the time it takes for Roy to go down and come back is just not the Eugene style. So Eugene expects it is possible for the idea to work.

Fair enough, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt....for now :smalltongue:

[Nerd_Paladin]

I'm getting a bit tired of seeing things like this... -everything- is predictable once it happens.



Really? Very rarely do I notice anyone being critical in these threads, mostly it's just variations on "Great strip Giant!"

[John Campbell]

If your appearance is sudden, unexpected, and alarming/frightening but they do not react in any unusual manner to it, and if there is a nearby proxy that they are obviously adressing, I think think that assumption is indeed perfectly obvious.
Haley's a high-level PC in a fantasy role-playing game - and a magic-heavy system, at that. She just got done fighting a necromancer and a bunch of wights, who serve a lich sorcerer with armies of zombies at his command. Why exactly should she be shocked by seeing a ghost? I might expect a bit more "excited and pleased", since it's the ghost of a friend whose corpse she's been reduced to talking to, but alarmed or frightened? Why?

I thought the casual, "Hey, Roy," was pretty funny, and got less so as I realized that Haley wasn't just treating the encounter as casually as a high-level PC might be expected to treat such magical goings-on, but actually couldn't see Roy's ghost.

My prediction for 528:
Belkar: Hey, Roy.
Roy: What, you talk to my corpse, too?
Belkar: No, I'm talking to you, Dumas. What kind of weirdo loser would talk to your stinky corpse?

[David Argall]

:smallfrown: Come on, lets get the plot MOVING!

EDIT: Oh god, thet're gonna kill me for saying that! I just meant that I'd like to move the plot out of Azure city (and its surrounding waters)

The plot is not leaving Azure City for at least 100 strips. In fact, the end of book 4, at about 675, may well feature the party finally leaving AC. Possibly the last 50 strips may be some water adventure or something on the way to the next gate, but the odds favor the book closing with the end of the AC story line.
So don't be in a rush. We want good stuff and we will be getting Azure City stuff, so hope for good AC stuff.

[factotum]

Haley's a high-level PC in a fantasy role-playing game - and a magic-heavy system, at that. She just got done fighting a necromancer and a bunch of wights, who serve a lich sorcerer with armies of zombies at his command. Why exactly should she be shocked by seeing a ghost?

Didn't you just answer your own question? To Haley, undead = bad, and last time I checked, ghosts are considered undead in the D&D world. There's no way she can know that Roy's ghost is there of his own volition--in fact, the SAFE assumption would be that he's been compelled there by Xykon or Redcloak, and thus would be extremely dangerous.

[Niknokitueu]

Maybe if Haley gets the Greenhilt sword (by the way, where is it right now?) then she'll be able to see Roy. Bit weird tough, I've always thought of Haley as someone who would loot a corpse, not talk to it.
Um, you see Roy's body in the cart?
You see that big green hilted thing standing up in the back of the cart near Roy's neck?

(ie I think you just Belkar'd your spot check... :smallbiggrin: )

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

[John Campbell]

Didn't you just answer your own question? To Haley, undead = bad, and last time I checked, ghosts are considered undead in the D&D world. There's no way she can know that Roy's ghost is there of his own volition--in fact, the SAFE assumption would be that he's been compelled there by Xykon or Redcloak, and thus would be extremely dangerous.

Except that he's, y'know, talking like Roy, not like an evil undead monster compelled by necromantic forces to destroy her.

[maxon]

OK I'm back - been away a week or so, you know ... working. What did I miss?

Sigh - poor Roy, it's never easy for him is it?

[Alaire]

I love it.

Poor Roy, he always has such a hard time :smallfrown:

[pjackson]

Her assessment of Xykon's overall lack of vulnerability is making me nervous, though. Has he really gotten that much stronger and more powerful while Roy was away?

No.
He has been that strong and powerful for a long time.

[Obscurity]

This isn't one of Giant's better ones. But the people who are commenting on 'predictable filler' are sickening me. Predictable it may have been - but did you see him trying to conceal the punch line? Anybody? Didn't think so.

Second - this is character development. Y'know, that thing where we learn more about a character so they seem more like a real person? That's what was happening on both sides of the dialogue. Foreign concept, I know, along with something called 'buildup', but you'll get used to it - it makes things a lot more interesting in the long run.

This was a good strip. It established two characters more firmly, it established a plot barrier and a conflict, and it was touching and poignant as well. So, to you naysayers: :smallsigh: :smallsigh: :smallsigh: Because that's apparently the smiley of the week.

Okay. Snarling rant-time is over.

[Morgan Wick]

I got a strange sense of satisfaction of calling "Haley can't see Roy" in the #525 thread, but the strip was also too painful to read once I got to the twist. In fact I think this is the first strip in that category for me, and I read the "Haley can't talk" strips! If this leads to a moment where Roy does eventually appear to Haley, this ruins any shock she might have. I can't imagine Roy appears to Haley before #530 now and that's a stretch. That lends some credence to the "Belkar can see him" rumors.


Perhaps I'm wrong, but doesn't the subject have to be asleep to see the Greenhilt ghost?

I had thought of a number of ways this could have gone wrong in the #525 thread, but I hadn't thought of this one! Then again, this doesn't look like Roy's asleep... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0078.html)


It's could just simply the case that Haley may need to actually be touching the sword in order to see and hear Roy

Evidently, not to KEEP seeing and hearing him. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0015.html) And it sure doesn't look like Roy's touching the sword here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0039.html) (Re: David Argall: It's impossible to tell the difference between asleep and awake in that strip, as Roy would look the same either way. #78 looks firmer to me.) But I don't blame you, I had that same theory myself once.


I figured out pretty early on that Haley was talking to Roy's corpse, not Roy's spirit. I'm putting myself down under the theory that Eugene could only manifest to Roy, therefore Roy can only manifest to Julia now.

I once thought about a potential plotline where either Eugene or Roy appears to Julia and tries to get her to take on Xykon starting with joining Haley.


D: The sword no longer works because it lost power when it was sundered

If that were the case, Eugene wouldn't have asked Roy to get it reforged, since it wouldn't have made any difference. I did propose on the other thread, though, a modified version of this: the sword no longer works because of the starmetal. In fact I just thought of another potential twist: The starmetaled-up sword is "particularly harmful to the undead"... a category that Roy now fits into, right?


My out of left field guess: Only Mr. Scruffy will be able to see Roy, and somehow Roy will have to communicate via Mr. Scruffy --> Belkar --> Haley. If he wasn't already bald, he'd be pulling out his hair in frustration at that task. :smallwink:

What... I don't... the... How does that even make sense? Biscuit to Holder of Secrets for at least trying to justify it, but we don't know if Scruffy is officially Belkar's companion yet, which is doubtful since they just recovered him.


great comic possible title for 528: "manifest" destiny

After reading this, I would be shocked if "Manifest Destiny" didn't appear in the next 25 strips, assuming Roy doesn't appear to Belkar without effort. As above, maybe not necessarily #528, but I set the over-under at #540 and taking the under.


"You say potato, I say potato..."
Hmm. Does not work so well in print...

Usually, we write it "po-tay-to, po-tah-to".


I have the strangest feeling that only Belker and his cat will be able to see Roy. I can see it now Belker walks in and looks at Roy and says hey and Roy thinks Belker is talking to his body but Belker is really talking to him. It would also be a great time for Belker to point out that just because he is Psychotic doesn't mean he is crazy enough to talk to a dead body.

The only reason it is like that is probably because of the mark which is the only real connection between Roy and Belker but the Mark is still more of a connection then Roy has with any of the rest of the party. Plus the whole idea seems like something a DM would do.

Well, it's better than the "only Mr. Scruffy" idea. But I can't agree with Johnny Blade likening it to Eugene's reference to a "metaphysical link", but that referred to the sword, which Roy just tried to use to talk to Haley. So if that were the case it would still have to deal with whatever prevented Roy from talking to Haley. Unless the problem there was "Greenhilt blood" since this is a separate, more direct link.


Predictable possibly, but not filler [& I am fairly fast to call filler]. We have a definite plot development in Roy having trouble making contact. Now one might claim the point is padded and could be handled in half the space, but such still means we have plot elements, and thus the strip is non-filler. Not to mention that jokes like this one are often better for the longer you can string them out. We get the greater chance to laugh at Roy.

I've noticed several recent strips where things breaking just so slightly differently would have a huge impact. For example, Belkar almost taking Tsukiko's offer before deciding to fling the cat, while if he had thought of the MoJ (which incidentially I had no clue was actually in the rules, not being a DnD geek) he would have taken it anyway. I think this will be padded enough that Roy's failure to get to Haley now will cost everyone later, possibly almost immediately. (Midnight raid by minions of Team Evil, anyone?)


My prediction for 528:
Belkar: Hey, Roy.
Roy: What, you talk to my corpse, too?
Belkar: No, I'm talking to you, Dumas. What kind of weirdo loser would talk to your stinky corpse?


LOL! I doubt it would happen quite like this, though, since Roy already "knows" it's fruitless to actually talk to anyone. But I could see him giving a slightly similar line.


Didn't you just answer your own question? To Haley, undead = bad, and last time I checked, ghosts are considered undead in the D&D world. There's no way she can know that Roy's ghost is there of his own volition--in fact, the SAFE assumption would be that he's been compelled there by Xykon or Redcloak, and thus would be extremely dangerous.

You also introduced ANOTHER problem that could occur if/when Roy does eventually appear to Haley. Could you imagine if Haley performs an unable-to-actually-Turn-Undead, but-does-actually-catch-the-ghost variant of this strip? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0016.html) Roy better hope those 3rd-level clerics don't hit a nat-20 on their turning checks... (Please note I only barely understand the applicable rules)

[ref]

Probably it doesn't work because it's the Greenhilts' legacy sword, and Haley is not a Greenhilt.

[FujinAkari]

Probably it doesn't work because it's the Greenhilts' legacy sword, and Haley is not a Greenhilt.

This is likely irrelevant. If it was the bloodline that mattered, I can't see Eugene suddenly being UNABLE to manifest just because the sword got broken.

[jamroar]

I can't see Eugene suddenly being UNABLE to manifest just because the sword got broken.


Maybe the anti-undead properties of the starmetal tempered into the blade is suppressing the power to manifest?

[FujinAkari]

Maybe the anti-undead properties of the starmetal tempered into the blade is suppressing the power to manifest?

You should prolly spoiler that... (yes, I spoilered it in my quote in case he changes it.)

That would certainly be an interesting development, although I'm not sure Roy counts as undead atm...

[Daen]

Aw, poor Roy!

But I think we have to remember: although Eugene said the sword was a critical metaphysical link required for manifestation, it's likely not the only one.

As for other links they have: father-son, and perhaps more importantly the Blood Oath of Vengeance. Although the BOoV wouldn't affect Haley, it would affect Julia. And then we have the Mark of Justice on Belkar, which might be magically similar (from a metaphysical standpoint) to the BOoV.

So I'm betting: within proximity of the sword, Roy could manifest to either Belkar or Julia.

[warmachine]

Whilst it was obvious that Haley couldn't see Roy, it must be remembered that OotS is no longer a gag-a-strip webcomic. It is now story driven and characterization is part of any story. Not the best strip but it had to be done.

Poor Haley. Whereas Roy is certain of his place in the cosmos, she's now responsible for lives other than her own. Let's hope she talks to Roy soon. Roy will tell her that the purpose of a resistance is to preserve the soul of a nation, rather than to defeat the occupiers militarily. Up against 20,000 hobgoblins and with weak, magical support, she's doing brilliantly.

[FujinAkari]

But I think we have to remember: although Eugene said the sword was a critical metaphysical link required for manifestation, it's likely not the only one.

I disagree, Eugene said the sword was the metaphysical link, which seems to indicate that it is the only one.

[Mauve Shirt]

If it's a bloodline problem, then Roy would have to manifest to Julia. But to do that Julia would have to get the sword, and that would be HIGHLY unlikely. Is her wizarding school anywhere near Azure City? And how would Haley know she had to get the sword to Julia?
Plus, the school has wards against that sort of thing. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0364.html)

[Oslecamo]

Haley is losing her mind, talking to dead bodies like that.

Hmm, actually, those clerics should be able to cast speack with dead by now. Wonder why Haley still didn't ask them to do so.

As for why Roy can't appear to Haley, well, maybe you need to be a caster to do so.

[Mauve Shirt]

Eugene would have told him if he had to be a caster. He would love to point out another reason why fighters are inferior to wizards.

[jamroar]

Hmm, actually, those clerics should be able to cast speack with dead by now. Wonder why Haley still didn't ask them to do so.


Speak with dead post 3rd ed. doesn't actually conjure up the dead spirit but the corpse's imprint of its memory up to the time of its death. Roy's corpse would not be able to impart any new information which he learnt in the afterlife.

[Daen]

I disagree, Eugene said the sword was the metaphysical link, which seems to indicate that it is the only one.

That only means that it's necessary, but perhaps not sufficient (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necessary_and_sufficient_conditions). :tongue:

[Johnny Blade]

This is likely irrelevant. If it was the bloodline that mattered, I can't see Eugene suddenly being UNABLE to manifest just because the sword got broken.
I think what ref meant was that the sword wouldn't work because, being the Greenhilt family weapon, it does not qualify as a link, since it is just a sword in Haley's eyes, no matter how important it is to Roy. (And no matter how hard he might try to conceal it, it also had a special significance to Eugene, if only because of his other family members and the alienation it partially caused between him and his son.)
At least that's what I think.:smallwink:

Anyway, this leads to the following point:

But I can't agree with Johnny Blade likening it to Eugene's reference to a "metaphysical link", but that referred to the sword, which Roy just tried to use to talk to Haley. So if that were the case it would still have to deal with whatever prevented Roy from talking to Haley. Unless the problem there was "Greenhilt blood" since this is a separate, more direct link.
See, I don't think Roy needs to overcome anything when he tries to manifest/talk to Belkar.
The sword, as mentioned above, was the metaphysical link between him and Eugene because it was important to them, although for slightly different reasons. (Well, at least they probably had different feelings towards it.) It served as a link because of its symbolic meaning. Or maybe it is having Greenhilt blood flowing through your veins, but that wouldn't actually change anything, since I think Haley will be unable to see Roy anyway.
The MoJ, on the other hand, is a link simply because of its existence, since it specifically linked Roy and Belkar to each other when it was cast.

[Fabio_MP]

New comic is up.

EDIT: Having some difficulties getting it to show up, actually, hold on...
must have had same problem of Roy :)

great strip, but I want more!

thanks!

btw I want also a new book!

[shylocxs]

I wonder if she could see Roy if he had hair?

Congrats, BTW, on the nominations! Wish I could actually vote!

[David Argall]

I had thought of a number of ways this could have gone wrong in the #525 thread, but I hadn't thought of this one! Then again, this doesn't look like Roy's asleep... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0078.html)

Evidently, not to KEEP seeing and hearing him. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0015.html) And it sure doesn't look like Roy's touching the sword here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0039.html)

The earlier strips do challenge the sleeping and touch theories, but only challenge. The missing sword in 39 can easily be on the floor behind Roy. And while Roy seems awake in 78, dreaming that you are awake is routine and we have Roy sleeping on guard duty before.



I once thought about a potential plotline where either Eugene or Roy appears to Julia and tries to get her to take on Xykon starting with joining Haley.

The kinship theory is very unlikely to apply here. A story thrives on difficulties, not deadends. That Roy is going to find it very hard to contact Haley, great. That Roy simply can't, that won't fly. Roy must work for his success, but he will succeed. There seems no good way for Julia to get here to be contacted, so kinship is not going to be a requirement here.



How does that even make sense? Biscuit to Holder of Secrets for at least trying to justify it, but we don't know if Scruffy is officially Belkar's companion yet, which is doubtful since they just recovered him.

It's not important, tho useful as justification, whether Scruffy is Belkar's companion or not. The idea that a cat can see spirits like Roy comes pre-approved [or at least not rejected]. So we have a possible means for Roy to communicate, and having difficulties doing so is a bonus.



Roy better hope those 3rd-level clerics don't hit a nat-20 on their turning checks... (Please note I only barely understand the applicable rules)
Assuming Roy counts as a garden variety 12-HD undead, he doesn't have to worry until the clerics reach 8th level. There are toys and tricks, but your normal 3rd level cleric can't handle more than a 7-HD undead even on a real good roll.

[FujinAkari]

must have had same problem of Roy :)

great strip, but I want more!

thanks!

btw I want also a new book!

I want a pony! :P

[hajo]

Roy would have to manifest to Julia.
Is her wizarding school anywhere near Azure City?
Plus, the school has wards against that sort of thing. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0364.html)
The school is in Cliffport (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0337.html), several weeks of riding or just 3 days on airship (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0388.html) away from AC.

BTW, if there is a regular airline, people from outside must have noticed that something funny happened to AC, and perhaps someone is examining the site.
I wonder how AC looks like from outside that cloister-spell...

[Keri Thornwood]

Poor poor Roy... He never seems to get much respect. Maybe it's because he has so much trouble seeing what's happening around him. He's too focused on what he thinks should be happening.

[factotum]

BTW, if there is a regular airline, people from outside must have noticed that something funny happened to AC, and perhaps someone is examining the site.
I wonder how AC looks like from outside that cloister-spell...

Given that the exile fleet has been attempting to get the assistance of everybody in the area to retake Azure City, I'm pretty sure they're all aware of what happened even without magic...

[sheepofoblivion]

I got a strange sense of satisfaction of calling "Haley can't see Roy" in the #525 thread, but the strip was also too painful to read once I got to the twist. In fact I think this is the first strip in that category for me, and I read the "Haley can't talk" strips! If this leads to a moment where Roy does eventually appear to Haley, this ruins any shock she might have. I can't imagine Roy appears to Haley before #530 now and that's a stretch. That lends some credence to the "Belkar can see him" rumors.



I had thought of a number of ways this could have gone wrong in the #525 thread, but I hadn't thought of this one! Then again, this doesn't look like Roy's asleep... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0078.html)



Evidently, not to KEEP seeing and hearing him. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0015.html) And it sure doesn't look like Roy's touching the sword here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0039.html) (Re: David Argall: It's impossible to tell the difference between asleep and awake in that strip, as Roy would look the same either way. #78 looks firmer to me.) But I don't blame you, I had that same theory myself once.



I once thought about a potential plotline where either Eugene or Roy appears to Julia and tries to get her to take on Xykon starting with joining Haley.



If that were the case, Eugene wouldn't have asked Roy to get it reforged, since it wouldn't have made any difference. I did propose on the other thread, though, a modified version of this: the sword no longer works because of the starmetal. In fact I just thought of another potential twist: The starmetaled-up sword is "particularly harmful to the undead"... a category that Roy now fits into, right?



What... I don't... the... How does that even make sense? Biscuit to Holder of Secrets for at least trying to justify it, but we don't know if Scruffy is officially Belkar's companion yet, which is doubtful since they just recovered him.



After reading this, I would be shocked if "Manifest Destiny" didn't appear in the next 25 strips, assuming Roy doesn't appear to Belkar without effort. As above, maybe not necessarily #528, but I set the over-under at #540 and taking the under.



Usually, we write it "po-tay-to, po-tah-to".



Well, it's better than the "only Mr. Scruffy" idea. But I can't agree with Johnny Blade likening it to Eugene's reference to a "metaphysical link", but that referred to the sword, which Roy just tried to use to talk to Haley. So if that were the case it would still have to deal with whatever prevented Roy from talking to Haley. Unless the problem there was "Greenhilt blood" since this is a separate, more direct link.



I've noticed several recent strips where things breaking just so slightly differently would have a huge impact. For example, Belkar almost taking Tsukiko's offer before deciding to fling the cat, while if he had thought of the MoJ (which incidentially I had no clue was actually in the rules, not being a DnD geek) he would have taken it anyway. I think this will be padded enough that Roy's failure to get to Haley now will cost everyone later, possibly almost immediately. (Midnight raid by minions of Team Evil, anyone?)



LOL! I doubt it would happen quite like this, though, since Roy already "knows" it's fruitless to actually talk to anyone. But I could see him giving a slightly similar line.



You also introduced ANOTHER problem that could occur if/when Roy does eventually appear to Haley. Could you imagine if Haley performs an unable-to-actually-Turn-Undead, but-does-actually-catch-the-ghost variant of this strip? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0016.html) Roy better hope those 3rd-level clerics don't hit a nat-20 on their turning checks... (Please note I only barely understand the applicable rules)


dear god, how long did that take you!??!

@ the mark of justice theory (belkar can see roy) is it possible that the bond was broken when roy died? It wouldn't be very good if lets say an inevitable (who can cast mark of justice at will) died after casting mark of justice, all marked by him would have to stay next to his corpse until it was removed... I personally think that the spell would be broken (but who knows, I didn't actually read the spell description...)

also, Azure City is pretty much in an entire new plane of existance (cloistered at least) (to those who think julia may be able to see roy...)

[Steven the Lich]

I think the reason why Haley coudn't see Roy is simply because she's not one of the Greenhilt family. The sword has only been used by the members of the Greenhilt family, after all, it would only make sense if they were the only ones able to make links to each other with the sword.
Another possible fact is Haley never wielded the sword in combat, and therefore, the sword is unable to used as a spiritual link to her.
Theorically of course.
Prediction of the Day: When Roy gets back up there, Eugene is going to call him an idiot, and explain another one of those mumbo jumbo cosmic rules of spirituality...
oh, as if we all don't know that... :smallsigh:

[Scutatus]

Haley is losing her mind, talking to dead bodies like that.



Really? Are you sure? It's surely no different than talking to a grave stone.

"Hello Mum, it's me again."

People do that all the time. Are they losing their mind? No. It's just our way/one way of coping with loss.

The only difference here is that Haley can actually see the rotting corpse being eaten by worms... :smalleek:

ok, she's nuts. :smallwink:

[Raider]

Was there any possibility she wasn't?

[Morgan Wick]

dear god, how long did that take you!??!

It was sometime after 3 AM before I was done, but that was mostly my Internet connection going wonky. Each individual comment is fairly short and it doesn't take me longer to read the thread than it takes any of you. Five pages isn't that bad. Still, I didn't wake up today until 1 in the afternoon... yeah.


@ the mark of justice theory (belkar can see roy) is it possible that the bond was broken when roy died? It wouldn't be very good if lets say an inevitable (who can cast mark of justice at will) died after casting mark of justice, all marked by him would have to stay next to his corpse until it was removed... I personally think that the spell would be broken (but who knows, I didn't actually read the spell description...)

If the bond was broken when Roy died, the Mark would likely have either been activated or nullified. After reading the description (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/markOfJustice.htm), it seems that Burlew is using his own implementation of the MoJ, and there's nothing in that particular rule about any link, unless there was one elsewhere that would apply.

[sheepofoblivion]

It was sometime after 3 AM before I was done, but that was mostly my Internet connection going wonky. Each individual comment is fairly short and it doesn't take me longer to read the thread than it takes any of you. Five pages isn't that bad. Still, I didn't wake up today until 1 in the afternoon... yeah.



If the bond was broken when Roy died, the Mark would likely have either been activated or nullified. After reading the description (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/markOfJustice.htm), it seems that Burlew is using his own implementation of the MoJ, and there's nothing in that particular rule about any link, unless there was one elsewhere that would apply.

Yeah, I sorta thought that there wasn't a link, but if there was, a being of pure law which devotes itself to upholding the law ... actually now that I think about it, would probably transfer the link to another inevitable, but probably wouldn't activate it if they died

edit: after reading the latest one, Hey! He listened to our speculations! Actually he didn't, as he stated in the FAQs he already had it planed out, we just guessd, cuz we're so smart! Good Job people (maybe he did read it...)

@V: yeah, I know, I just wanted to have a false sense of success, even if it was false... or maybe it's just because I don't go onto the comic disscussion threads at all and he does that with all his comics and it just seems new to me because this is the first time I participated in a ""comic __ discussion thread..."

[FujinAkari]

edit: after reading the latest one, Hey! He listened to our speculations! Actually he didn't, as he stated in the FAQs he already had it planed out, we just guessd, cuz we're so smart! Good Job people (maybe he did read it...)

Hard to say, really. Rich has been known to spoof all the theories people throw around (see the Assassin's Arrow (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0436.html), or Miko as Blackguard (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0419.html).) He prolly DID read the theories and gave them a nod in the comic, but then went along his own path anyway :P