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Ya Ta Hey!
2008-02-04, 11:35 PM
This is a very old novel by Miguel de Cervantes that parodied the knightly lore of the authors time by telling a narrative of Don Quixote, a senile country gentlement who read so many of said novels that it drove him insane and he went out terrorizing the countryside on an imaginary crusade.

How would you express him as a D&D build? I was thinking some kind of demented paladin or something.

Zincorium
2008-02-04, 11:38 PM
Aristocrat, with Sancho Panza as a commoner.

Remember, the Don is not a trained fighter. He's just an old delusional rich guy. He doesn't even get xp for defeating the windmills.

Kilroy
2008-02-04, 11:51 PM
1 Aristocrat/ 1 ranger {favored ememy Constructs}
His sidekick 20 illusionist/ 5 archmage :smallbiggrin:

averagejoe
2008-02-05, 12:40 AM
Aristocrat, with Sancho Panza as a commoner.

Remember, the Don is not a trained fighter. He's just an old delusional rich guy. He doesn't even get xp for defeating the windmills.

Nah, it would probably be Sancho a commoner, and the Don as a higher level commoner, if for no other reason than the aristocrat class grants weapon/armor proficiency.

Ascension
2008-02-05, 12:53 AM
He THINKS he's Paladin 20. Or maybe even epic.

I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and call him Aristocrat 1. 'course, he wouldn't have good ability scores to start with, and when you factor in the age modifiers... we're looking at a pretty incompetent fighter.

What feats do you think he'd take?

horseboy
2008-02-05, 02:30 AM
I'd disagree. I'd call him a bard. Heck, he's a bard of almost Elan proportions (sans the magic)

ZeroNumerous
2008-02-05, 02:34 AM
I'd disagree. I'd call him a bard. Heck, he's a bard of almost Elan proportions (sans the magic)

Bards have weapon proficiencies. :smalltongue:

Darkantra
2008-02-05, 02:41 AM
I'd call him a homebrew altered Knight, he certainly has the Knight's Challenge ability, he just only uses it on the wrong things, chiefly inanimate objects.

BRC
2008-02-05, 01:15 PM
I have a sudden urge to homebrew a windmill monster

DementedFellow
2008-02-05, 01:23 PM
I would go 1 Aristocrat and everything else Bard. Bards are still squishy and are not combat oriented.

He's a romancer after all. He just thinks he's a knight. So yeah, his combat skills -can- suck, but not his Bluff, Diplomacy and so on.

He would be fun to RP. But I'm already playing a Bard so I can't switch horses midstream.

horseboy
2008-02-05, 01:25 PM
Bards have weapon proficiencies. :smalltongue:
So? Depending on what he was thinking, it's entirely possible he was crazy enough to pick up a bastard. :smallwink:

Telonius
2008-02-05, 01:40 PM
Aristocrat 2/Knight1 sounds right to me.

He has some ranks in Knowledge (nobility). He does know how to ride a horse. DM fiat to allow Leadership at level 3 to get Sancho as a cohort.

Regarding weapons ... he knows how to use a lance (just not who to use it against), so I'd say proficiency with all the weapons. But - this is important - he's venerable age. He started out with the standard array - 11's and 10's. When he gets to venerable, his STR is down by 6, to around 4 or 5. He can hardly hit anything, and when he does it doesn't hurt much. Some kind of affliction to affect his mind, too; Spot and Sense Motive are surely in the negatives.

EDIT: And remember that bit about carrying capacity? Yeah, he's marching around in a breastplate (if I remember correctly) and an improvised helmet. Dude can hardly move.

DementedFellow
2008-02-05, 01:48 PM
I never cared for that age related ability changes. I've known tons of old people that were not as wise as they were 30 years prior. And when my grandmother was 79, she helped reshingle her roof. So I'm having trouble trying to see that drastic a loss in strength. Dex, however, yeah, I can see. Working as a nuclear medicine tech, I see a lot of geriatrics, but one day we had a 90 year old patient who was about 30 minutes late to his appointment because he could only take a step that was less than 3 inches at a time.

Mr. Friendly
2008-02-05, 01:52 PM
I think he would be a Knight or Paladin or combination.

While I am sure we all agree that he is in fact a human commoner or aristocrat with age penalties, there is something that is being overlooked; namely that he *believes* he is a knight. More than that he *knows* it.

Given that one's beliefs shape reality, especially in D&D, I see no reason to not make him as an actual knight.

Hit points are abstractions, thus his belief carries him through that hurdle.

Weapon proficiancies are arbitrary at best. It's been a while sice I read it, but I don't remember it actually discussing what he did in his youth. He could very well have learned some weapon use... Besides stranger things happen - In the real world no less- than someone suddenly learning to use weapons.

bosssmiley
2008-02-05, 01:53 PM
This is a very old novel by Miguel de Cervantes that parodied the knightly lore of the authors time by telling a narrative of Don Quixote, a senile country gentlement who read so many of said novels that it drove him insane and he went out terrorizing the countryside on an imaginary crusade.

What insanely obscure book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Quixote) is this you speak of? :smallamused:


How would you express him as a D&D build? I was thinking some kind of demented paladin or something.

The Don: Aristocrat <6. Age penalties + delusions.

The old Renaissance historical sourcebook (HR7) for 2nd Ed. had a picarro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picaresque) kit allowing you to play 'wise fool' characters like Sancho Panza. Your character had to be the servant of another PC, but you got bonus XP whenever you showed them up as boorish, arrogant or foolish.

Oeryn
2008-02-05, 01:55 PM
I never cared for that age related ability changes. I've known tons of old people that were not as wise as they were 30 years prior. And when my grandmother was 79, she helped reshingle her roof. So I'm having trouble trying to see that drastic a loss in strength. Dex, however, yeah, I can see. Working as a nuclear medicine tech, I see a lot of geriatrics, but one day we had a 90 year old patient who was about 30 minutes late to his appointment because he could only take a step that was less than 3 inches at a time.

I'm against age-related penalties, too. As an example, my grandfather worked a 150-acre cattle ranch by himself, until he was 91. Which isn't a walk in the park.

Not sayin' it's par for the course, but aren't adventurers supposed to be exceptional?

DementedFellow
2008-02-05, 01:55 PM
Yeah, some weapons are kinda simple to figure out.

"Pointy end goes in the bad guy.":smallsmile:

Duke of URL
2008-02-05, 02:15 PM
He may think he's an aristocratic Knight/Paladin, but he's just a somewhat wealthy Commoner with delusions of grandeur. As such, it makes sense to have two sets of progressions for him, 1) his perceived progression as a Knight or Paladin (the former more likely than the latter) with possibly one or more levels of Aristocrat and 2) his actual progression as a Commoner.

The character believes progression #1 is the result of his epic battles, whereas everything really resolves using progression #2.

Pancho Sanchez, of course, is a Commoner/Bard.

Newtkeeper
2008-02-05, 03:15 PM
I'd say he's probably an aristocrat- he wasn't *good* with weapons, but he knew the pointy end from the handle, at least- and he could joust (he just couldn't joust at the right *things*). Anyway, he had some decent starting GP. He might, of course, have just been a commoner with high rolls for starting cash, but I think the aristocrat fluff suits him better. Anyway, if you had called him a commoner to his face, he would have dueled you.

Bard is right out. He had charisma, but no spellcasting.

Flaws (from Unearthed Arcana), he had aplenty. I think 'Delusion- I am a great knight' is worth at least a feat, at least when coupled with a positively horrible Sense Motive check.


I'm just glad he never met a gazebo. That would have been too much weirdness for the universe to handle.

Telonius
2008-02-05, 03:31 PM
Hm. Actually, looking at the Wikipedia article on it (been a long, long time since I've read it) he's actually somewhere around 50 years old. So "old," not "venerable." The book describes him as a "noble," although pretty far apart from actual nobility. Modern US example would probably be equivalent of a seventh cousin, twice removed, of the Kennedys. Aristocrat might be a little bit of a stretch. But he does have his own house; his own horse; and people apparently are willing to put up with his nonsense. So he apparently does have a fair stash of money.

PhallicWarrior
2008-02-05, 11:03 PM
All of you who think he couldn't fight, remember that he managed to take on quite a few 1st or 2nd level commoners while wearing no armor, and hit a guy hard enough to drop him in one hit. The dude had more BAB than you give him credit for. (not to mention he was pretty strong.) At least give him one level in Fighter! (And as Kilroy said, Ranger 1, Favored Enemy: Constructs:smallbiggrin: ) Sancho Panza as some kind of nerfed spell-less NPBard works well enough.

Icewalker
2008-02-05, 11:21 PM
I think a few levels in aristocrat probably would do it. I haven't read the books, but I know the story, and I will eventually...