View Full Version : What did Haley want to say here?
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0309.html
"Elan, it turns out I may not be exactly what you would call-"
What is it? Did I miss anything?
Zeitgeist
2008-02-06, 04:18 PM
I think that still might be considered to be unknown beyond some crazy speculation.
bluish_wolf
2008-02-06, 04:20 PM
"... sane." Really, that's the only thing I could think of that would work.
Raider
2008-02-06, 04:22 PM
normal, Haley is definately planetouched
Ancalagon
2008-02-06, 04:29 PM
"... human."
factotum
2008-02-06, 05:07 PM
There are just an amazing number of possible words that fit perfectly as the next one--there's no way we're going to guess it before Rich does his big reveal, I think.
Swordlol
2008-02-06, 05:07 PM
"... human."
Second. Win. Lets make it happen, people.
Raging_Pacifist
2008-02-06, 05:11 PM
....normal"
I believe this because there is no evidence that Haley is anything but human. But there is evidence that she isn't normal, as she talks to manifestations of her own personality.
Morgan Wick
2008-02-06, 11:17 PM
I believe this because there is no evidence that Haley is anything but human.
Not exactly... http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WMG/OrderOfTheStick
...Sabine is clearly supposed to be Haley's equivalent in the Linear Guild. [Rich has said] that Haley and Sabine are opposites in a way that has yet to be revealed in the strip...
Kanti
2008-02-07, 12:57 AM
i know what most of it says. but only because i have no life and am translating her gibberish.
Kanti
2008-02-07, 01:00 AM
Not exactly... http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WMG/OrderOfTheStick
thats not substantial evidence
Whatever Haley's secret is, it is apparently so horrifying that it has driven away almost everyone she has ever loved.
I suspect that we'll have to wait until we meet Haley's father before we find out exactly what is her dark secret.
Corwin Weber
2008-02-07, 01:18 AM
Whatever Haley's secret is, it is apparently so horrifying that it has driven away almost everyone she has ever loved.
I suspect that we'll have to wait until we meet Haley's father before we find out exactly what is her dark secret.
Or she just thinks it is, and they actually 'left' for various other reasons. She's CG(ish). She doesn't have to actually be at fault to beat herself up over it.
Personally I suspect that the general suspiscion is right. She's only part human. She could be planetouched, or.... I'm more of the opinion that she wasn't kidding when she told Durkon she was part dragon... she just phrased it as a joke to throw people off.
She's greedy, chaotic, and has red hair. Given the circumstances of the comic.... there's at least a decent chance that she has a red dragon in her ancestry. (I doubt it's one of her parents. Probably a grandparent at the closest, and very likely more distant than that. But she probably still has at least some of the traits.)
Porthos
2008-02-07, 01:37 AM
thats not substantial evidence
There is circumstantial evidence that Haley might be an Assimar, but nothing "substantial" as you put it. :smallsmile:
1) As mentioned above, Rich said in one of the commentary sections of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools that there is another way that Haley and Sabine are opposites. Beyond the obvious one where Sabine is in a relationship with her love while Haley isn't. Well if Sabine is demonic in nature, then an opposite would be for Haley to be angelic in nature, at least partially.
2) Haley showed deep seeded issues about not being a "good enough person" and she lamented that everyone that was "good" in her life left her because she couldn't measure up. This is a classic example of inferiority when having extraordinary parents. In this case Haley would be trying to measure up to her mother (presumably) and consistently failing in her own mind. This also might lead to Preacher Kid Syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preacher%27s_kid) where the child of a really good person will rebel against their ideals.
3) She has a proficiency in at least Longbow, if not Martial Weapons, which is not on her Class List. This means she either A) took a level of something along the way that gave her MWP, which is exceedingly unlikely since she's never mentioned being anything other than a pure Rogue. B) Took the feat somewhere along the line, which seems kind of a waste even for this comic. Or C) she gets it for free by being an Assimar (it's a hidden feature in their stat block that's been confirmed by WotC.
4) She seems to know a bit about how demons, devils, and the planes work. Which is odd since you wouldn't think that a Rogue would take Knowledge (The Planes). But if she had a parent who was one, then it makes sense. Mind you, she admits to sneaking looks at the rulebooks when she's not supposed to, so this is a fairly weak one. :smallwink:
5) (Admittedly the weakest one) We see a Celestial who appears to be a dead ringer for Haley (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0193.html), right down to the hair. This doesn't say much because of the nature of the comic and the fact that we've seen someone else who looks similar to Haley (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0481.html) in the strip. But on the other hand, the person on the boat doesn't have the hair falling down over her eyes. Rich has occasionally drawn Racial Types simmilarly to each other. So it is possible that Haley looks an awful lot like her mother. Sans the wings, of course.
So that's it pretty much. Well that and it just fits the sentence, of course. Almost everything else was either already said by Haley, or is something that Vaarsuvius would know. So nothing concrete, but at least a little bit of smoke. Of everything, the fact that she's proficient in Longbow is the most eye raising thing, IMO.
Ascension
2008-02-07, 10:08 AM
I always assumed that the end of the sentence was "...a virgin."
No, I don't really have any reason to think that. It would give her more in common with Sabine, though.
Morty
2008-02-07, 10:12 AM
"...a good person".
It fits entirely with ther "I'm not good enough" guilt trip a while after. She might be a planetouched, but only because we can't say for 100% that she isn't, and I don't think that counts as evidence.
Roderick_BR
2008-02-07, 01:43 PM
"... a girl."
What? Everyone is making wild guesses anyway.:smalltongue:
Wolfie_1066
2008-02-07, 01:46 PM
i second the human theory because its the only one that seems to make ANY sence
Mauve Shirt
2008-02-07, 02:07 PM
"a good person" makes perfect sense, but "human" is far more interesting. :smalltongue:
Raging_Pacifist
2008-02-07, 05:46 PM
I always assumed that the end of the sentence was "...a virgin."
No, I don't really have any reason to think that. It would give her more in common with Sabine, though.
Wow. Well then again there is all that sexual temsion w/:belkar: . Wait, ewwww. Haley and belkar.
Querzis
2008-02-07, 06:00 PM
I always assumed that the end of the sentence was "...a virgin."
Oh she definitly isnt a virgin...and Elan, Roy, V, Belkar and Durkon definitly arent either. Look its a secret so terrible that she never even said it to V and she consider it her greatest secret. Not being a virgin when you are 24 years old isnt really a secret at all, especially if you are as cute as Haley is supposed to be.
«Human» make lots of sense but now that you mention it «a good person» would also fit. Everytimes she does something bad she feel really guilty about it (like leaving O-chul behind) so maybe she did something so terrible when she was young that her mother left her so she still feel guilty about it right now and she has never said it to anyone.
Porthos
2008-02-08, 03:12 AM
People who have No Cure for the Paladin Blues already know the answer to the question about Haley's virginity. :smalltongue:
.
.
.
.
.
I can't believe I'm actually posting about that particular subject. :smalleek:
Tal9922
2008-02-08, 03:47 AM
"...a potato"
What? Its a plausible theory!
Niknokitueu
2008-02-08, 04:53 AM
I give a third (fourth?) vote for "Human".
Also, a possibility exists it could be something like "alive", or "marriage material", or even "available".
IMO most likely is "human" followed by "normal".
Have Fun!
Niknokitueu
bluish_wolf
2008-02-08, 05:41 AM
"... female." Haley is a hermaphrodite.
People who have No Cure for the Paladin Blues already know the answer to the question about Haley's virginity. :smalltongue:
What are you referring to? I've read the book but can't think of what you could mean.
What are you referring to? I've read the book but can't think of what you could mean.
The laughing unicorn.
If we're voting, consider this one for "a good person," with a side of "I think Rich may consider the answer self-evident from what he's shown of Haley's self-loathing, and the question therefore resolved."
Souju
2008-02-08, 06:50 PM
no one's taking the reason she's amassing such wealth into account?
"elan i'm not exactly what you'd call chaotic..."
Frictional
2008-02-08, 08:33 PM
You know, I always used to think that she was going to say something about the ransom to rescue her father.
But then again, I had never read the translation. She could be saying "...greedy." though. That seems to be one of the biggest traits all of her party-mates attribute to her, and would probably throw them off if she said she wasn't.
[Edit] Upon re-reading you Souju, I realize that's exactly what you were saying. Go me.
Or she just thinks it is, and they actually 'left' for various other reasons. She's CG(ish). She doesn't have to actually be at fault to beat herself up over it.
Personally I suspect that the general suspiscion is right. She's only part human. She could be planetouched, or.... I'm more of the opinion that she wasn't kidding when she told Durkon she was part dragon... she just phrased it as a joke to throw people off.
She's greedy, chaotic, and has red hair. Given the circumstances of the comic.... there's at least a decent chance that she has a red dragon in her ancestry. (I doubt it's one of her parents. Probably a grandparent at the closest, and very likely more distant than that. But she probably still has at least some of the traits.)
What do you have against dragons???
That's mean, and besides, Rich already made it clear that she is trying to get her dad out of jail. (it'd be ironic if Lord Tyrannar was Elan's/Nale's dad.)
EDIT: YEAH!!! that could be it! Haley and Elan are brother and sister! Or maybe cousins. Or something. (then again, we're all inter-related in a way)
Querzis
2008-02-10, 06:25 PM
You know, I always used to think that she was going to say something about the ransom to rescue her father.
But then again, I had never read the translation. She could be saying "...greedy." though. That seems to be one of the biggest traits all of her party-mates attribute to her, and would probably throw them off if she said she wasn't.
[Edit] Upon re-reading you Souju, I realize that's exactly what you were saying. Go me.
She was greedy before her father got kidnapped. You dont become a rogue if you are not greedy in the first place. Beside, she talked about her father ransom BEFORE she said «I'm not exactly...»
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4909&highlight=haley+translation
If you read the translation and the comic, then you know that this secret is something more important then her father kidnapping or the fact that shes not in the thieves guild anymore. Except, «human» or «a good person» no secret can really beat that. And by the way, not chaotic? Even if she woudnt be greedy (which isnt true), I really dont know how you can think Haley is anything else then chaotic...
She was greedy before her father got kidnapped. You dont become a rogue if you are not greedy in the first place.
'Ey. I agree with everything else you say, but rogue=/= thief. Rogues are adventurers, and as far as members of the rogue class who don't make their living wandering through dungeons killing things go, some are law enforcers (and no, I don't mean only crooked cops).
EricDerKonig
2008-02-10, 11:29 PM
EDIT: YEAH!!! that could be it! Haley and Elan are brother and sister! Or maybe cousins. Or something. (then again, we're all inter-related in a way)
And Xykon is their father!
Kai Maera
2008-02-11, 02:03 AM
Haley is Elan.
No, not Elan the man, Elan the race.
Psionic people who tend to gravitate toward the redheaded side. Some are crazy powerful psions (read: weak transmutation mages), others decide to go into core classes and use their 2 psionic points to feed themselves.
Support: She didn't eat the salad! Gasp!
Mauve Shirt
2008-02-11, 07:53 AM
If the answer is "greedy", why would she be reluctant and nervous to tell Elan that? Why would it make everyone leave her? "I'm not greedy" is not a particularly bad or difficult thing to tell someone.
Frictional
2008-02-11, 10:44 AM
If the answer is "greedy", why would she be reluctant and nervous to tell Elan that? Why would it make everyone leave her? "I'm not greedy" is not a particularly bad or difficult thing to tell someone.
Not "I'm not greedy cause I'm not actually in love with money" but "I'm not greedy cause I'm actually getting this money to save someone else."
And I did say "Used to think." I had never read the translations before. But now that I have, my opinion has been changed. So... there ya go.
Mauve Shirt
2008-02-11, 11:02 AM
But still, why is it a bad secretive thing to be saving your money to save your father?
nybbler
2008-02-11, 11:29 AM
...heterosexual.
:-)
ZeroNumerous
2008-02-11, 11:54 AM
But still, why is it a bad secretive thing to be saving your money to save your father?
Because it's a secret that other people can use to destroy you. :smalltongue:
Kaelaroth
2008-02-11, 11:54 AM
...heterosexual.
Didn't she reveal that earlier when she said she'd kissed a girl? Rachel?
Faramir
2008-02-11, 01:44 PM
As good a place as any to repeat one of my pet theories that I don't believe but is off the wall enough to hopefully provide some amusement:
Has Start of Darkness spoilers:
...Human.
Haley is One-Eye's daughter that he sent off to live with humans. She's a goblin who was magically transformed to look like a human and adopted by the humans we saw in the flashback. She's afraid that if Elan found out she was really a goblin he'd leave her.
Father was a first edition thief (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0008.html). Surely that is sufficient proof.
Of course then why didn't she recognize Redcloak, or know about Xykon, or...
But it's my theory and I'm sticking with it!
David Argall
2008-02-11, 03:13 PM
As good a place as any to repeat one of my pet theories that I don't believe but is off the wall enough to hopefully provide some amusement:
Has Start of Darkness spoilers:
...Human.
Haley is One-Eye's daughter that he sent off to live with humans. She's a goblin who was magically transformed to look like a human and adopted by the humans we saw in the flashback. She's afraid that if Elan found out she was really a goblin he'd leave her.
Father was a first edition thief (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0008.html). Surely that is sufficient proof.
Of course then why didn't she recognize Redcloak, or know about Xykon, or...
But it's my theory and I'm sticking with it!
Origen & SoD 3 years before the start date, One's eye's daughter was still a kid. At that time, Haley had already been an active member of the thieves guild for 2-3 years. So unless we introduce absurd amounts of magic, Haley is ruled out as One-eye's daughter.
But still, why is it a bad secretive thing to be saving your money to save your father?
Even more importantly, Haley already mentioned that her father was being held ransom [sic] by an evil dictator.
Father was a first edition thief (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0008.html). Surely that is sufficient proof.
Redcloak's brother was not a First Edition thief. Even if monsters could have classes in 1ed--which I doubt--thieves didn't Sneak Attack, they Backstabbed. He was a 3ed rogue.
Clertar
2008-02-11, 03:46 PM
"... honest." / "... sincere.", anyone?
Lionpawheart
2008-02-11, 08:13 PM
human or normal is my vote.
Where can I read the translation of her speech?
Edmundog
2008-02-11, 10:07 PM
Oh she definitly isnt a virgin...and Elan, Roy, V, Belkar and Durkon definitly arent either.
Durkon and Roy we've seen, V is married, and Belkar loves the whores, but where's the evidence for Elan?
Querzis
2008-02-11, 10:26 PM
Durkon and Roy we've seen, V is married, and Belkar loves the whores, but where's the evidence for Elan?
Are you kidding me? He just have to stand there doing nothing and he get any girl he want...as well as many girls he doesnt actually want.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0156.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0159.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0302.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0316.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0503.html
And I hope you wont say: «its not because lots of girls wanna sleep with him that he want to»...come on, dont confuse immature and innocent:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0160.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0400.html
Elan is less likely to be a virgin then Durkon...and yes, I know we actually saw Durkon have sex!
I assumed "pretty," seeing as Elan interrupts her to comment on the prettiness of the waitress.
Edmundog
2008-02-12, 05:57 PM
Are you kidding me? He just have to stand there doing nothing and he get any girl he want...as well as many girls he doesnt actually want.
No argument here, I was just pointing out that we don't KNOW. It is still possible that he's never had sex. It's not 'definite'.
psychoticbarber
2008-02-12, 10:22 PM
"...straight."
...why not?
Querzis
2008-02-12, 10:37 PM
"...straight."
...why not?
Because she already said she kissed a girl, more then one actually. I posted the translation on top of this page, go read it.
Again, except 'human' or 'a good person' no secret can possibly beat everything she said before.
And edmundog, I have no evidence that my parents arent virgin either, I could be an adopted child...I still freaking know they had sex, if Elan a virgin V is a polymorphed kobold. What? You dont have any evidence V isnt a kobold either.
Edmundog
2008-02-13, 09:44 PM
And edmundog, I have no evidence that my parents arent virgin either, I could be an adopted child...I still freaking know they had sex, if Elan a virgin V is a polymorphed kobold. What? You dont have any evidence V isnt a kobold either.
Okay, geez. All I said was that it's not as 'definite' as you claim. Roy and Durkon have been witnessed having sex. (Well, just after, at least) Vaarsivius is married. Belkar is a whoremongerer.
All the 'proof' you've shown for Elan is that women are instantly attracted to him. Oh, and he brought flowers and candy and toplessness to a woman he claimed he had to seduce according to the bard charter, but given how profoundly he tends to muck up his job that's little proof of anything.
I don't think Elan's a virgin, and I don't think he was before he hooked up with Haley, but it's far from the certainty you claim it to be. Just because he's devastatingly handsome don't mean a thing.
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