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View Full Version : Lying Without Speaking in a Zone of Truth



Shhalahr Windrider
2008-02-06, 08:44 PM
I've been going over the spell zone of truth (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/spellsTtoZ.html#zone-of-truth). Creatures who fail a will save cannot "speak" a lie while in the zone.

Now, the rules lawyer in me says, "Hey! You could easily get around that! Just communicate via writing or telepathy or any other non-spoken communication form!" And for one of the strictest readings of RAW out there, that voice would be right.

But I'm just wondering how many people think that is the Rules as Intended or just play it that it prevents all lying anyway.. Especially since there doesn't seem to be any truth-detecting magic that doesn't use similar wording. It seems like an obvious "improved zone of truth," but I don't think I've ever seen it. (Let me know if it does exist.)

(Magic Under the Sun, don't read below)I bring it up because I a scenario involving a zone of truth and a character that only communicates via telepathy.

Roderick_BR
2008-02-06, 09:16 PM
"Therefore, they may avoid answering questions to which they would normally respond with a lie, or they may be evasive as long as they remain within the boundaries of the truth."
Yes, a character can avoid talking to avoid saying a truth they don't want, but that alone will be an indication that he has something to hide, so the Zone of Truth is not completely useless.
As for others ways of communication, the DM can either allow someone to write, speak in signs language, or whatever, and do as he pleases, or consider that any form of communication is affected. "The pen is reeeee... blue!"

Prometheus
2008-02-06, 09:30 PM
Ahh. You are right about your interpretation about speaking. The general thing to prevent people from writing lies though is that there isn't much point in doing so because the caster of Zone of Truth knows that those could be lies. Zone of Truth doesn't force you to speak truth, it forces you to be able to prove when you are speaking truth and be unable to prove when you aren't.

In regards to telepathy, it seems to me that could count as a form of "speaking" unless you telepathically projected pictures or written words as opposed to spoken words. A message or magic mouth delivered from a Zone of Truth to a Zone of Truth seems like it would be held to the rule, so as would telepathy. Also I think creatures that "speak" with animal sounds (Gnolls) would count but those that speak with sign languages (the Drow have one) would not. Whether or not telepathy counts as "speaking" this should be clear to the caster, to avoid ambiguity. At the very least, grant them a Knowledge (arcana/divine/psionics) or Spellcraft/Psicraft check to resolve the question.

Shhalahr Windrider
2008-02-06, 09:38 PM
"Therefore, they may avoid answering questions to which they would normally respond with a lie, or they may be evasive as long as they remain within the boundaries of the truth."
Yes, a character can avoid talking to avoid saying a truth they don't want...
On the whole, I'm taking the Evasiveness being more related to the "wording" used rather than the method of communications. Like if someone asks you if you went to the library, and you answer, "I went to the grocery store." Naturally, you were at both the library and the grocery store, but you're responding as if the it was just the grocery store.


...that alone will be an indication that he has something to hide, so the Zone of Truth is not completely useless.
Usually. I've got a few potential scenarios in mind that give characters legitimate reasons to use non-verbal communication without turning heads. For instance, multipe zones of truth could be used at some sort of meeting of delegates where there are so many threads of communication going on at once that sometimes you have to just write something down and pass it around.