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Baron
2004-12-01, 05:28 AM
For all your OOTS December mutterings.

Enjoy!

Crimson_Eyes
2004-12-01, 06:36 AM
I love the way Elan goes "Wooot!" in #124 and Belkar goes "Hold that thought." - lol

Pharazon
2004-12-01, 10:17 AM
December already? Time sure flies.

Poor rat. I don't like Belkar anymore. It's his just reward that he should not gain a level.

So, what level would they be now? Or has that question been over-asked already?

DrDoom
2004-12-01, 11:05 AM
Well, they are still around lvl 7-9...

RawBearNYC
2004-12-01, 11:52 AM
So, what level would they be now? Or has that question been over-asked already?
That question has been officially been answered here (http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq6a). But that doesn't stop people from guessing. Someone's bound to add up the various levellings in the strip and wonder why V can't cast 9th level spells yet, and be frustrated at the lack of logic involved, but they were warned.

Callista
2004-12-01, 02:09 PM
Hmmm.... I wonder how Belkar missed out on XP?

I bet the DM stiffed his player on role-play XP... Belkar's character is so one-dimensional. Only V could really give him a run for his money when it comes to "short character descriptions", and V has come up with some cool strategies, like the Exploding Runes note. Belkar just stabs stuff.

I mean, Roy gets to talk to his dad... Haley and Elan start a relationship... Elan tries to put everyone's eyes out with his nudity... Haley saves everyone's butts by discovering Xykon's plans... and even Durkon ends up falling in tragic love with an evil cleric.

While all this character development is going on, what's Belkar doing? Stabbing everything in sight.

No wonder. His player is probably a consummate roll-player who couldn't care about anything but the XP...

Nighthawk4
2004-12-01, 02:20 PM
Just a thought - is V's Excellent comment when he/she discovers the level gain a quote from C. Montgomery Burns or Gordon Brittas? ;)



For the rest of the World, Gordon Brittas is the Manager of the Whitbury Leisure Centre in The Brittas Empire - a comedy series in the UK. He was played by Chris Barrie - who also played the hologram Rimmer in Red Dwarf :)

I assume everybody knows who C. Montgomery Burns is :D

Kashinn
2004-12-01, 08:57 PM
Since I don't know that British guy, I immediately thought of Mr. Burns - the look and the hands are also right, so my guess is that it's old Burnsy who's being referred to.
(Damn is that sentence as complicated as I think it is?)

MonkWren
2004-12-01, 11:03 PM
Well, so far only two level-ups have been shown in the script, so really, the only thing we know is that OoTS is at least 3rd level. And any speculation is really worthless. They will remain whatever level is appropriate for the plot.

Wanderer
2004-12-01, 11:12 PM
V can cast Cone of Cold. He's at least level 9.

Sorry. Shutting up now.

Shatteredtower
2004-12-02, 12:58 AM
IF we were to speculate based on what we've seen V do, Everyone's Favourite Elf is now either 10th or 11th level.

(Note that I'm not holding the Giant to that. He'll play it as he sees fit and we'll like it just the same, I'm sure.)

I base this on three castings:

1. Cone of cold, which, as has been pointed out, requires a 9th level caster. Of course, it's been argued that the spell is weaker than fireball by many people, so for all we know, the Giant has made it a 3rd level spell.

2. Magic missile was cast during the Linear Guild duels, producing five missiles in strip #65, all of which were blocked by a shield spell. That requires at least a 9th level caster.

3. In the next panel of #65, V tries to use scorching ray, producing two rays. If V was 11th level or higher, three rays would have been produced.

Therefore, V's level at the time of the duel was either 9th or 10th level, and V has gone up a level since then.

But again, artistic license trumps the rulebooks here, which is very likely for the best.

Grey Watcher
2004-12-02, 01:35 AM
No wonder. His player is probably a consummate roll-player who couldn't care about anything but the XP...

I suddenly had this strange notion that every time Belkar says "DAMN IT!" his player says at the exact same time for the exact same reason. Makes you wonder about these players. Whether maybe V's player left the "Gender" entry blank on purpose, if Haley is the only girl player (maybe V is being played by a gay guy?). Does Elan's player share his naivete or is he laughing derisively at his character's antics? Is Roy's player trying to have a serious, well-thought out adventure while the rest of his players are just unwinding after a week of classes or work or something?

pumpkinetics
2004-12-02, 02:28 AM
Assuming everyone (except belkar) was at the same level, that means that V is currently at 10th level. (adding ever

This is due to the fact that at the previous level, haley gained extra sneak attack. (an odd leveled rogue ability)

Knight13
2004-12-02, 02:55 AM
Hi, I just found this site yesterday and I just finished reading the archives. I have to say that this is one of the best webcomics I've ever read. For my first post, I have a few comments and questions.

First, why do so many people hate Belkar? He's one of my favorite characters! He has the most straightfoward approach to problems of any of the characters. He stabs them! Actually, would it really matter if he gained a level? He's a ranger with a really low wisdom stat. That means that the only thing he really has to look forward to is Greater Two-Weapon Fighting at 11th level. Finally, are his weapons short swords or daggers?

Next is V. Does anyone know what V's gender is? The posts I've seen so far suggest that no one does. I've sure that some other character has refered to V as "he" at least once. However, several other things suggest that V is a girl. Like when he/she shares a room with Kayla in #123. Come to think of it, I'm probably just reapeating what other people have said. Also, didn't V say that he/she has Wish when he/she was trying to get the 2.0 Fly off that Dark Elf? That's a 9th level spell.

I guess that's it for now.

pumpkinetics
2004-12-02, 03:07 AM
V said he/she/it had it wish in her spellbook. He/She/It didn't neccesarily have the actual ability to cast it. Anyway, he/she/it may have just used that as a bargaining tool.

And nobody hates belkar. It's all your imagination.

Note to self: kill the belkar supporter.

metaofantioch
2004-12-02, 03:23 AM
I suddenly had this strange notion that every time Belkar says "DAMN IT!" his player says at the exact same time for the exact same reason. Makes you wonder about these players. Whether maybe V's player left the "Gender" entry blank on purpose, if Haley is the only girl player (maybe V is being played by a gay guy?). Does Elan's player share his naivete or is he laughing derisively at his character's antics? Is Roy's player trying to have a serious, well-thought out adventure while the rest of his players are just unwinding after a week of classes or work or something?

Ooh, now I want a comic that goes "behind the characters," so to speak. My guess for Elan's player is that he's far from naive, but just likes playing a slightly-off bard with some gender identity issues. I'd also guess that V's player is either a girl playing a guy, a guy playing a girl, or a complete power gamer who doesn't care about details like gender, and the whole "gender debate" is brought on by the other players.

ShadowDragon8685
2004-12-02, 05:33 AM
Why dosen't Elan use any of his bard spells?

With Belkar's wisdom stat, and we can assume he never grew a Sense Motive, it should be easy to fool him with an illusion.

Aidan305
2004-12-02, 05:48 AM
I'd also guess that V's player is either a girl playing a guy, a guy playing a girl, or a complete power gamer who doesn't care about details like gender, and the whole "gender debate" is brought on by the other players.

Considering what V is like when he/she/it is casting spells I'd be inclined to go with the third option. Either that or a REALLY good roleplayer.

DrDoom
2004-12-02, 07:53 AM
Elans song was a ripbreaker this time! Weehee!

Oh, and @ Knight13:

It says in the FAQ, that although the other partymembers relate to V as "he", they have no idea if tghey are right and are just guessing. V himself shows no concern about his gender, so...

Knight13
2004-12-02, 07:37 PM
I wish my DM would give me roleplaying XP. I always make up really long backgrounds for my characters. I could get something like 3 levels doing that.

I think V is played by a power gamer. He/she/it always goes on a power trip about his/her/its magic.

Lastly, why would a group of level 7-9 characters run from a bunch of goblins? My level 8 sorcerer can beat on goblins all day, or at least until he runs out of spells.

bournie
2004-12-02, 07:46 PM
Firstly "Hahahahaha the Brittas Empire, I'd forgotten about that one"

Secondly:



IF we were to speculate based on what we've seen V do, Everyone's Favourite Elf is now either 10th or 11th level.

(Note that I'm not holding the Giant to that. He'll play it as he sees fit and we'll like it just the same, I'm sure.)

I base this on three castings:

1. Cone of cold, which, as has been pointed out, requires a 9th level caster. Of course, it's been argued that the spell is weaker than fireball by many people, so for all we know, the Giant has made it a 3rd level spell.

2. Magic missile was cast during the Linear Guild duels, producing five missiles in strip #65, all of which were blocked by a shield spell. That requires at least a 9th level caster.

3. In the next panel of #65, V tries to use scorching ray, producing two rays. If V was 11th level or higher, three rays would have been produced.

Therefore, V's level at the time of the duel was either 9th or 10th level, and V has gone up a level since then.

.

Cant be bothered looking up the speel slot levels, but to get 5 magic missiles couldn't v just maximise and be less than level 9?

evileeyore
2004-12-02, 09:54 PM
Why dosen't Elan use any of his bard spells?

With Belkar's wisdom stat, and we can assume he never grew a Sense Motive, it should be easy to fool him with an illusion.

Because Elan only does illusions of puppies and chicks of the appropriate race.

I would fear for the puppies, and doubt Belkar would stop in his quest for XP to oggle a female halfling ranger.


Just my opinion--EvilE

MattB
2004-12-02, 10:37 PM
Finally, are his weapons short swords or daggers?

per D&D 3.5 rules they are 'small' shortswords (we see them shrink in issue 1 when they migrate from 3E to 3.5E)

A small shortsword is equivalent to a medium dagger in terms of damage though

GypsyThorn
2004-12-02, 11:19 PM
...Note to self: kill the belkar supporter.


Hah! Even though you wrote that aside in small print, we all heard you anyways!

But, please, reconsider. Belkar does a lot of the heavy lifiting for the group. He also needs to put a lot of leverage into his two-handed attacks. If we got rid of Belkar's supporter, the hafling would most probably get a hernia.

Grey Watcher
2004-12-02, 11:52 PM
You know, for a minute, I figured that Belkar got the RP XP by accident. Oh well.

Woolysock
2004-12-03, 02:19 AM
I wish my DM would give me roleplaying XP. I always make up really long backgrounds for my characters. I could get something like 3 levels doing that.

I think V is played by a power gamer. He/she/it always goes on a power trip about his/her/its magic.

Lastly, why would a group of level 7-9 characters run from a bunch of goblins? My level 8 sorcerer can beat on goblins all day, or at least until he runs out of spells.

You need to read the old Dragon article about Tucker's Kobolds. Any GM can kill you off easily with enough goblins or kobolds, and I suspect Rich is just the kind of GM who would. until he runs out of spells That's exactly right. When, not if, he runs out of spells, he's dead.

Shatteredtower
2004-12-03, 09:23 AM
Cant be bothered looking up the speel slot levels, but to get 5 magic missiles couldn't v just maximise and be less than level 9?

No. The number of missiles is not a variable numeric effect. The damage they do is.

(Oh, the cries of horror we'd hear if you could do this with a maximized scorching ray 9th level, gaining the benefit of a third ray two levels early at the cost of a 5th level spell slot, as though up to 72 points of fire damage [or more, with the right combination] to a single target was game-breaking at 9th level.)

Pharazon
2004-12-03, 10:50 AM
I remember my first AD&D session, a few months ago. We were meeting in AIM, and during the actual session, another player said something to my character, using my AIM username, instead of my character-name, Calaron.

I was like "Pharazon? Who is that? My name is Calaron!"

And blam, the DM gave me role-playing XP. To this day I'm still ahead of everybody else in XP (although that could also be explained by the fact that I'm one of the few of our group who doesn't dual-class).

I like role-playing XP...

The Giant
2004-12-03, 12:53 PM
Belkar uses daggers ("small" daggers). You can tell because he's thrown them at people before, and short swords don't have a throwing range.

Adghar
2004-12-04, 05:03 PM
If in fact they are "small", he would not be able to dual wield them like that. He is a hafling, so he's small, and any weapon that is the same size is you is 2-handed. Thus, the daggers are "tiny" daggers.

Grey Watcher
2004-12-04, 07:33 PM
If in fact they are "small", he would not be able to dual wield them like that. He is a hafling, so he's small, and any weapon that is the same size is you is 2-handed. Thus, the daggers are "tiny" daggers.

Actually, it's a weapon one size category bigger than you. So even a human-sized short sword (a small weapon) could be wielded by a halfling with one hand. A human sized longsword is a medium sized weapon, so a halfling would need two hands. A human-sized greatsword is a large weapon, and thus is too big to be wielded by a halfling.

Shatteredtower
2004-12-05, 03:03 AM
Belkar uses daggers ("small" daggers). You can tell because he's thrown them at people before, and short swords don't have a throwing range.

Yes, they do -- refer to pg 113 of the PHB, the second paragraph under the heading Thrown Weapons.

The range increment for a short sword (or battle axe or dire flail) is 10 feet. You just take a penalty on the attack roll and need more time to make the attack.

DrDoom
2004-12-05, 03:09 PM
Actually, it's a weapon one size category bigger than you. So even a human-sized short sword (a small weapon) could be wielded by a halfling with one hand. A human sized longsword is a medium sized weapon, so a halfling would need two hands. A human-sized greatsword is a large weapon, and thus is too big to be wielded by a halfling.Not in 3.5. See the first Strip, new edition (Weapon Shrinkage!). They realized that a Greatsword is not the same size as an Ogre, just because he can wield in one Hand, or that a shortsword has the same size as a halfling! Now, if a weapon is as large as you, you must wield it in both hands, one size smaller in one Hand and two sizes smaller, its a light weapon.

Grey Watcher
2004-12-05, 03:29 PM
Not in 3.5. See the first Strip, new edition (Weapon Shrinkage!). They realized that a Greatsword is not the same size as an Ogre, just because he can wield in one Hand, or that a shortsword has the same size as a halfling! Now, if a weapon is as large as you, you must wield it in both hands, one size smaller in one Hand and two sizes smaller, its a light weapon.


Yeah, I know, but I was operating on the idea that a "medium-sized weapon" was a weapon designed to be one-handed and non-light for a medium character. So, under that logic, I was right the first time. I just have a weird sense of logic, that's all. :-D

Wanderer
2004-12-05, 11:16 PM
Meh? Look folks, he's weilding daggers that are suited to his size. Thus, he can use two of them just as a human could use two normal-sized daggers. Do we really need to have an elaborate discussion about the whole thing?

Sheesh. People. Next thing you know, they'll be trying to tell me that V is female. ;D

Knight13
2004-12-05, 11:49 PM
actually, I think Belkar has small short swords. Why would you settle for daggers when you can dual-wield short swords? Also, Belkar kinda reminds me of me. In D&D I'm rather enthusiastic about killing things and will do almost anything for a chance at additional XP.


Any GM can kill you off easily with enough goblins or kobolds

That's true, but they were only being chased by 50 goblins! You know what it would take for my level 8 sorcerer to kill that many? About 2 fireballs and maybe 1 or 2 lightning bolts. Any survivors could be finished off by my panther familiar and my +1 crossbow with fire bolts.

Shatteredtower
2004-12-06, 12:21 AM
actually, I think Belkar has small short swords. Why would you settle for daggers when you can dual-wield short swords?

Game mechanics caught up with him and his DM didn't grandfather his purchase.

You see, he entered the dungeon under 3.0 rules, when two short swords would have been medium sized weapons for him, with the result that he'd have been taking twice a large a penalty on attack rolls for wielding two of them.

Intead, he chose to wield two daggers, which would both have been small weapons at the time, "ideal" (for a certain definition of the word) for a halfling ranger. Since he's wielding two of them, I can only assume that he took Weapon Focus with daggers as well -- otherwise, he'd probably have a short sword and dagger combination.

But then along comes 3.5 and his DM converts his daggers down to halfling dagger size and probably keeps the feat selection locked on daggers as well, rather than asking Belkar's player, "Look, do you want me to convert things so that your weapons and feats remain roughly as effective?"

Knowing this, is it any wonder Belkar has a bad attitude? ;)

Duskrider_Moogle
2004-12-06, 01:59 AM
Man, I wish 'real' "life" worked like this...

"Shouldn't you be taking notes or something? You know, so you don't fail the test?"
"Nah. I'll just take a rank in Knowledge (Math). Then it'll be retroactively assumed that I actually have been taking notes..."

Shatteredtower
2004-12-06, 02:03 AM
Heh. And I feel guilty when I ask players to at least show me some plausibility for such "retroactivities".

SumGuy
2004-12-06, 02:30 AM
dang, all OOTS is now is just a Red X of DOOM. Dang, I was hoping to read Blekar's sob story one last time

Lilly
2004-12-06, 02:30 AM
And here we thought that belkar already had a level or two of barbarian...

Something happened during the server change, and now my firewall thinks that the comics look best as little red x's in a box.

The Giant
2004-12-06, 02:51 AM
Hmmm...I'll have to talk to Ray. We did something to prevent this site that was ripping OOTS off from being able to hotlink to it, but it may have had unexpected consequences.

Someone who is seeing red X's instead of the comic should start a thread in Board Issues and explain exactly what you are seeing, including your browser and how you are viewing it.

White Blade
2004-12-06, 03:53 AM
Hey About the most recent comic.
belkar Doesn't like barbarians remember he said "Barbarians Suck" and remember elan is stupid I doubt he could cast a cantrip.

Sebastian
2004-12-06, 03:57 AM
Why dosen't Elan use any of his bard spells?

With Belkar's wisdom stat, and we can assume he never grew a Sense Motive, it should be easy to fool him with an illusion.


Because the only things he can do are pretty girls (in the widest possible sense) and puppie, and neither of them give enough XP to distract Belkar. ;)

The Giant
2004-12-06, 03:59 AM
Hey About the most recent comic.
belkar Doesn't like barbarians remember he said "Barbarians Suck" and remember elan is stupid I doubt he could cast a cantrip.

I like nothing more than when people tell me how to write my comic. Yay!

Sebastian
2004-12-06, 04:16 AM
About the last comic, It deserve a soundy LOL. :D

And, yes, the smart thing to do for Elan would be to take a level in sorcerer, with his high charisma, but, hey, he is Elan we are talking about, when he ever did the smart thing. ;)

On the other hand the tougth of Elan able to cast fireballs it is even more scary of that of Belkar in a Rage. :)

Cayzle
2004-12-06, 08:11 AM
By a very funny coincidence, I just posted a blog entry about multiclassed bards last week (this week's topic is getting the most our of your bard as a fighter).

http://www.geocities.com/cayzle/screeds/book003.html

My main point is that multiclassing caster classes (cleric/sorcerer, bard/wizard) is pretty much a bad idea in general, and especially bad for a bard. A divine/arcane combo works okay for a sorcerer or wizard via the Mystic Theurge, but that option is crappy for a bard. Prestige classes that advance spellcasting ability are great for a sorcerer (who loses only familiar improvements by ceasing to advance as a sorcerer) and okay for a wizard (who also loses those once-every-five-levels bonus feats), but a bard loses too much -- bard song, lore, good attacks and reflex saves, skills -- and gains too little at levels above ten, when bards lose out as head-to-head casters vs. wizards and sorcerers.

Not that I'm telling the Giant how to write his comic! :-)

Wanderer
2004-12-06, 08:54 AM
These folks are lucky. Living under a considerate DM. I know some DMs who would make them provide solid proof that their characters are qualified to go multiclass like this.

You know, like requiring Elan to have STATED the whole time that he was studying V's spells over his shoulder, and stuff like that.

Knight13
2004-12-06, 09:03 AM
God I wish real life worked like that. Then I might not be failing Calculus. Also, the last panel contains one of my favorite sayings and the philosophy I live by: "Hard work pays off in the future, but laziness pays off now".

The idea of Belkar as a barbarian is priceless. It will be pretty interesting when he rages.

Todd_Schumacher
2004-12-06, 09:48 AM
This one time...at bard camp...

Sundog
2004-12-06, 10:29 AM
"On the other hand the tougth of Elan able to cast fireballs it is even more scary of that of Belkar in a Rage."


This is why I don't like the Prestige Bard from Unearhed Arcana, even though I like the Prestige Ranger and Prestige Paladin.

Given their other powers, a Bard is quite powerful enough, thank you. Add fireballs and you get something I'm not comfortable with as a GM power wise or comfortable with as a player flavour wise.

HOO
2004-12-06, 11:11 AM
Cool thing once again.

@ Bards and fireballs: As far as I remember, there is a skill called "Use Magic Device" and some bards tend to have a few ranks there, if I'm not mistaken... So a fireball hurling bard without any wizard levels is still possible.

@ Belkar the Barbarian
Do your really want to give up *stab* for *slashslashslash* - I don't think it'll be that much fun

Nighthawk4
2004-12-06, 02:17 PM
One thing neither Elan nor Belkar have mentioned is the XP penalty for multiclassing.

Elan should be OK - I assume he is Human and so his highest class can be anything, but Belkar is a Halfling, so iirc his favoured class is Rogue, not Ranger.

I admit I am basing this on NWN rather than the 3.5e PHB, as I don't have the latter available at the moment.

Also, I had thought that Elan was too dumb to be a Wizard and Belkar did say that Barbarians suck.

However, as always, it is your comic Giant - your choice ;)

White Blade
2004-12-06, 02:46 PM
I like nothing more than when people tell me how to write my comic. Yay!
sorry just making sure you remembered although I suppose elan could be stupid enough to think he was smart enough, and belkar could have changed his mind I just see character inconstancy if you don't tell us. at least it would be for belkar.

eldersphinx
2004-12-06, 03:52 PM
One thing neither Elan nor Belkar have mentioned is the XP penalty for multiclassing.

Elan should be OK - I assume he is Human and so his highest class can be anything, but Belkar is a Halfling, so iirc his favoured class is Rogue, not Ranger.

I admit I am basing this on NWN rather than the 3.5e PHB, as I don't have the latter available at the moment.

Also, I had thought that Elan was too dumb to be a Wizard and Belkar did say that Barbarians suck.

However, as always, it is your comic Giant - your choice ;)
Hey, given that Elan can apparently cast Wizard spells with a single-digit Intelligence, why worry about piddling little restrictions like a multiclassing XP penalty?... ;D

The Giant
2004-12-06, 04:12 PM
Seriously, people, you are killing the fun of creating this strip with all the micro-analysis and criticism. But to answer these questions:

1,) Until you see Elan cast a wizard spell, there is no reason to believe he can do so. Anyone can enter the wizard class, even with an Int of 3. They just can't cast spells. Wait and see.

2.) Belkar suffers from a lack of self-awareness. What is good for Belkar is more important than what is good for others; he is not even really aware that other people have needs. Therefore, it is entirely within his character to proclaim that barbarians suck and then take a level anyway. Those barbarians are "Not Belkar", and therefore are unimportant (and indeed, mock-worthy) in Belkar's mind. If given an opportunity, he would probably make fun of rangers too, blindly ignorant of his own hypocrisy.

3.) Who says Belkar won't get a 20% XP penalty? Who says he'll even take the level? You should wait to see what happens, you may be spoiling future developments for yourself by nitpicking.

Grey Watcher
2004-12-06, 04:19 PM
Hey, given that Elan can apparently cast Wizard spells with a single-digit Intelligence, why worry about piddling little restrictions like a multiclassing XP penalty?... ;D

He's casting Bard spells, those use his 18 Charisma.

pumpkinetics
2004-12-06, 04:39 PM
So Giant... You have done something very interesting... It seems you used in this comic an item of discussion from this topic (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1100217129 ;start=0#0), what with Belkar +barbarian levels.

Elan as a wizard: I'll cast... ummm... uh... Big fiery thingy!

Starbuck_II
2004-12-06, 04:55 PM
Seriously, people, you are killing the fun of creating this strip with all the micro-analysis and criticism. But to answer these questions:

1,) Until you see Elan cast a wizard spell, there is no reason to believe he can do so. Anyone can enter the wizard class, even with an Int of 3. They just can't cast spells. Wait and see.

He does get a familar and Scribe Scoll that is a good trade off.


2.) Belkar suffers from a lack of self-awareness. What is good for Belkar is more important than what is good for others; he is not even really aware that other people have needs. Therefore, it is entirely within his character to proclaim that barbarians suck and then take a level anyway. Those barbarians are "Not Belkar", and therefore are unimportant (and indeed, mock-worthy) in Belkar's mind. If given an opportunity, he would probably make fun of rangers too, blindly ignorant of his own hypocrisy.

Barbarian rage and fast movement are nice assets.



3.) Who says Belkar won't get a 20% XP penalty? Who says he'll even take the level? You should wait to see what happens, you may be spoiling future developments for yourself by nitpicking.
[/quote]

Belkar is not a ordinary halfing you see. He is probably is rare version that has ranger as favored class so getting another class adds nothing.

But i'm guessing here lol

Yellow
2004-12-06, 06:55 PM
The Belkar barbarian thing, I understand. Like Giant said, I don't doubt that it isn't in Belkar's nature to be a hypocrite.

Also, I don't think Elan has low intelligence. It's probably his Wisdom that's in the single digits.. :P He displays a rather poor grasp of common sense. :)

Aerysil1
2004-12-06, 08:32 PM
I wouldn't be too bothered by what others say about what you do in your comics, Giant. Just write them as you plan to, we'll enjoy them. I assume you already knew that anyway.

As for this week's comic, a lot of people think that way, and they can actually find success - all it takes is getting people to want you and keep you for something. Sad, but true. There are some pretty wierd industries out there. Exploitive insurance companies in disaster areas, identity theft rings on the internet, etc.

bournie
2004-12-06, 09:39 PM
Also, I don't think Elan has low intelligence. It's probably his Wisdom that's in the single digits.. :P He displays a rather poor grasp of common sense. :)

I agree, removing all clothes to improve on his tumble check? Sounds low wis to me. Bards like rogues traditionally like high intelligence for the skill points...

Going to wizard for elan wouldn't be that far a stretch.

MonkWren
2004-12-06, 11:19 PM
Has anyone realized that the true point behind the last few comics (besides being funny) is that they are showing some huge problems with how the DnD system works. As V points out, his background had to include a hundred years of study before learning one spell, yet Balkar or Elan could (theoretically) get spells simply by taking a level as a wizard. Same thing with the sob story of the previous comic (125). Belkar's sob story is simply to gain roleplaying xp, and may or may not have anything to do with how he actually feels. That's what I see as the real things being made fun of.

Note to Giant: I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, this is simply what I get from reading your comics (as well as stitches from laughing so hard).

Lilly
2004-12-07, 01:07 AM
Y'all do realize that you've gotten rules lawyering all over the random funny thread?

Lets discuss how funny this is without getting out our books, okay?

Ah ha! I see that Elan has mentioned this mystical bard camp again. What do y'all think goes on at this bard camp?

And do you think that catharsis really works for anger? So would Belkar taking a level of barbarian really do him any good for anger managment or would it just make the problem worse?

Aidan305
2004-12-07, 06:13 AM
"This one time, at bard camp…"

Zeepahdeedoohday
2004-12-07, 06:27 AM
I can't help with this, but would you say it should be best that short-lived mortals like humans could only attend magic as sorcerers? (it does not require to study, like wizards do.)

(i beg your pardon for any grammatical error.I'm a practising little italian lizard).

Crimson_Eyes
2004-12-07, 06:30 AM
Y'all do realize that you've gotten rules lawyering all over the random funny thread?

Lets discuss how funny this is without getting out our books, okay?

Ah ha! I see that Elan has mentioned this mystical bard camp again. What do y'all think goes on at this bard camp?

I don't even understand the gaming references and enjoy the strip for how funny it is with lovable characters :)

I wonder if bard camp is like band camp in "American Pie 2" :o

arche
2004-12-07, 09:27 AM
The whole multiclass thing seems like a nice satire of multiclassing at the game table. Of course you can get around it by requiring real role playing from characters for classes, but sometimes it’s just not going to happen or matter as the game allows for it anyway.

I just love the whole idea that they poke fun of the meta-gaming while in the game. They’re not supposed to meta-game, they are the characters. What are they thinking!? Anyway, as far as the overall comic is concerned, it’s a great expression of the quirkiness of D&D gamers, the game itself and just gaming in general.

It’s hilarious to think of Belkar as a barbarian or Elan as a wizard :). I don’t care how they do it, all I care is that hilarity ensues :).

Starbuck_II
2004-12-07, 01:08 PM
Wait didn't Elan already take a level in Cleric with Banjo?

So doesn't that mean he will have Lv 7 Bard lv 1 Clerix Lv 1 Wizard?

Cap_Hardman
2004-12-07, 01:31 PM
Hail, Sailors! http://images.comprador.multiply.com/image/1/photos/2/600x600/67.gif Cap. Is back! I missed the "rules" as a theme of the comics. I wouldn't mencionate it before because the fight was super!! but now the fight ends and the rules are on the table again...http://images.comprador.multiply.com/image/1/photos/2/600x600/31.gif

Well... i REALY need tho know something... WHO IS this PUSH-OVER narrator? Is Rick himself? or the comic will NEVER show him?

Well... That's petty much it!


http://images.comprador.multiply.com/image/1/photos/5/600x600/193.gifhttp://images.comprador.multiply.com/image/1/photos/5/600x600/175.gifhttp://images.comprador.multiply.com/image/1/photos/5/600x600/213.gifhttp://images.comprador.multiply.com/image/1/photos/5/600x600/183.gifhttp://images.comprador.multiply.com/image/1/photos/5/600x600/203.gifhttp://images.comprador.multiply.com/image/1/photos/5/600x600/175.gifhttp://images.comprador.multiply.com/image/1/photos/5/600x600/205.gif

arche
2004-12-07, 02:30 PM
Wait didn't Elan already take a level in Cleric with Banjo?

So doesn't that mean he will have Lv 7 Bard lv 1 Clerix Lv 1 Wizard?

Given Elan's attention span, he would have lost that level two strips after he gained it :P. In fact, if he does take a wizard level, he'd probably forget how to do that too. Or he'd try to inspire himself to cast spells (Cast, cast, cast the spell). :P

Actually, I think he was just worshiping banjo, but I don't remember.

Maelstrom
2004-12-07, 05:59 PM
Speaking of attention span and being distracted...Cap Hardman -- can your post be any more, er, visually galling??

The_Shadow
2004-12-08, 03:02 AM
Hey people, been lurking for a few weeks now, but had to post about this latest one.

I suspect that Elan definitely has an abysmal Int *and* Wis... and I'm looking forward to him trying to multiclass into wizard.

Do recall his convo with Roy about needing Wisdom to be a cleric... "That's just what they want you to think..." "Thank you for making my point so effectively." I think Elan, and more importantly his player, is quite capable of doing something like taking a wizard level with an Int of "nonexistent".

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who feels like he is getting to know the players of these characters. (Now I know I'm not crazy... I think. ;)) I've suspected from early on that Elan's player is getting a great deal out of fun out of playing up a low-Int character.

I agree that Belkar's player is likely a power-gamer. Durkon's player is quite a good roleplayer, as is Roy's. Haley's has her points, but is a bit one-dimensional with the treasure-fixation. :) Vaarsuvius' player clearly enjoys blowing things up, but does a decent "man of mystery" mage.

I'll refrain from discussing the nature of the GM... Except that he/she evidently doesn't mind making metagame comments at the table - look at some of the chimera's lines.

Thanks to the Giant for a hilarious, but also at times thought-provoking, strip!

Nighthawk4
2004-12-08, 02:00 PM
Hey, no offence intended Giant.

Our comments about details of the Comics are not intended as nit-picking or trying to be critical of you - they are just a discussion between ourselves.

It is a sign of how much we enjoy them that we examine and discuss every little detail.

As I said before, we are only guessing about the consequences of events and actions in each strip. What actually happens is, of course, entirely up to you and need not take any notice of our comments or suggestions.

Thus far I would say that whatever actually happens is usually nothing like anything we thought of and is invariably a lot better and funnier than all of our ideas put together.

*Continues to count the hours until tomorrow* ;)

Aser
2004-12-08, 03:31 PM
The virtuous Aser does not nitpick because she, too, knows how aggravating it is for someone to suggest how the cartoon should be drawn!

Also because she is clueless about all the background and only checks out the manuals now and then. Ignorance doesn't seem to be any hindrance to laughing my ass off at Elan and Belkar. And Xykon, I never forget Xykon.

Duskrider_Moogle
2004-12-08, 05:02 PM
Re: The Shadow's (and other's) posts.

I've always gotten the impression that, in OOTS, there is no 'separation between player and character' - the two entities are one and the same. That's a lot of the comic's humor in my mind.

arche
2004-12-08, 10:27 PM
Yea, I don't think of the player/character separation much. Typically, that's what makes the meta-talk funny. It's like a movie that makes fun of itself.

You know, there's something more interesting to nit pick about with the comic. What psychological demons does the Giant have and is expressing subconscously with the comic.

That's a much better topic to discuss :).

Duskrider_Moogle
2004-12-08, 10:32 PM
You know, there's something more interesting to nit pick about with the comic. What psychological demons does the Giant have and is expressing subconscously with the comic.

He was bitten by a d12 when he was four.

arche
2004-12-08, 10:38 PM
Obviously the discussion about changing classes has to do with his frustration with mid-life career changes. Giant is obviously having trouble getting used to the fact that others around him are able to break into careers without any training, but he had to work very hard to even be where he is now.

Ok, give me $100 for that - I'll bill you :).

Circon
2004-12-09, 01:45 AM
Curse my timezone! It's 7 in the morning and I can't see the comic until later today, after school! :P

Shatteredtower
2004-12-09, 01:56 AM
Y'all do realize that you've gotten rules lawyering all over the random funny thread?

Lets discuss how funny this is without getting out our books, okay?

What is this concept you imply with your post, that of "Putting your books away"? This concept is entirely foreign to me, who has them open on my desk at all times, saving those where I pack them to catch a bus or a train or go to work or when I need something to read when I go to the store...

No wonder my book shelves always seem so bare.

Shatteredtower
2004-12-09, 02:25 AM
Okay, Giant, today's strip was darned cool. I laughed several times, but I still feel sorry for the characters.

Well, more for V than Elan, but that might just be based on a false impression of Elan's nature. He just strikes me as the sort who acts on whims and tends to move on when they don't work out.

Lilly
2004-12-09, 02:37 AM
"If I don't look directly at it, it won't kill my brain" <-- Get's lot's o' funny points.

Elan will either bounce back quickly, or get really mad and just to show V take the level of wizard.

And in other news: BOOK!! BOOK!! BOOK!! EEEEEEEEEE!!! When's Feburary?

White Blade
2004-12-09, 02:47 AM
"If I don't look directly at it, it won't kill my brain" <-- Get's lot's o' funny points.

Elan will either bounce back quickly, or get really mad and just to show V take the level of wizard.

And in other news: BOOK!! BOOK!! BOOK!! EEEEEEEEEE!!! When's Feburary?
about two months from now but your pre-ordering/voting right Price for a vote 25 dollars. reward for 5000 votes 5 days a week order of the stick. if any one has on this forum no sig or a sig with less than 97 words I would like to request you use the rest/all of your sig to post what my sig is in order to help sell the book.

MonkWren
2004-12-09, 03:59 AM
If I can scrounge up $25 (plus shipping), that book is mine. I reread the comic so many times already that it'll be worth it for when my internet goes back to sucking. And todays comic I found to surprisingly emotional. You feel bad for both V and Elan, because both of them are feeling bad. Heck, even Belkar is comparatively serious. It's kinda scary when Roy has the most light-hearted line in the strip. "I can't hear, either" deserves mention, as well as the "If I don't look" line.

Callista
2004-12-09, 04:21 AM
*laughs at the comic*

Whooo! Go V!

Serves Belkar right... and that's about the only way to make him feel any sympathy, too. :P

Correct me if I'm wrong: Belkar is the only Evil character in the party; and everyone else is Good, right? Or is V neutral?

pumpkinetics
2004-12-09, 04:51 AM
But what's haley doing at this point of time?

Oh yeah, probably stealing stuff from the "oppresive" town government.

This strip should be called: "Second. Saddest. Comic. Ever."

ShadowDragon8685
2004-12-09, 05:04 AM
Poor Elan...

V made him cry! Awrigh - *Crushing Despair* - *sobs.* Poor Elan... He just wants to be cool like the V-dawg...

Terandir
2004-12-09, 07:20 AM
Meckalecka-hi, meckahiney-ho?

Pretty fly for a rabbi.... :)

Greetings,
Terandir

Invariel
2004-12-09, 08:38 AM
Wow... If Elan's crying can do that to Vaarsuvius, just imagine what it would have done to the goblin if he hadn't told Elan about where Haley went off to...

arche
2004-12-09, 09:33 AM
I think Elan was using a bardic ability when he was crying :).

Peldor
2004-12-09, 09:37 AM
I want an 8-ball staff almost as much as I want the OOTS book! ;D

Pre-preorder sent! 8)

Pvednes
2004-12-09, 11:17 AM
Poor Elan!

:'(

Knight13
2004-12-09, 11:57 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong: Belkar is the only Evil character in the party; and everyone else is Good, right? Or is V neutral?

Actually, I think that Belkar is Chaotic Neutral. That basically means that he does whatever he feels like doing at the time.

Gotta love the fact that Roy doesn't want to deal with any more of Elan's craziness.

DrDoom
2004-12-09, 12:47 PM
Nope, hes evil. He was not affected by the unholy Blight a Goblin cast on them. It was around #40, me thinks...

cherry
2004-12-09, 01:34 PM
Jajaja Elan is such a drama queen(more xp for being "on character")... V did what all of them wanted to do for so long.
Just show Elan a shiny thing and he'll stop crying :P

arche
2004-12-09, 01:47 PM
Spell: Elan's Tears

The spell causes the caster to ball his eyes out immediately after an insult. The person insulting the caster must make a Will Save to avoid feeling guilty.

Effects of guilt during combat: I don't know...anyone??

Starbuck_II
2004-12-09, 02:49 PM
Spell: Elan's Tears

The spell causes the caster to ball his eyes out immediately after an insult. The person insulting the caster must make a Will Save to avoid feeling guilty.

Effects of guilt during combat: I don't know...anyone??
You feel sickened with regret for 1d6 minutes. Sickened causes: -2 penalty on all attack rolla, weapon damage, save rolls, skill checks, and ability checks.

Fire_Wolf
2004-12-09, 03:05 PM
:'( Poor Elan! I feel like someone's cast Crushing Despair on me.

Crimson_Eyes
2004-12-09, 03:10 PM
Poor little Elan :'(

Super cool wizard suit he has on there :)

FFS
2004-12-09, 04:10 PM
Hehe.... Elan has a fake beard. lol

firefighterbard
2004-12-09, 04:15 PM
CLASSIC!!!

These post-dungeon strips have been great...and now the announcement of a book as well? Things can't get any better....pre preorder sent!!

FFB

Jacky
2004-12-09, 05:29 PM
man, Elan is my favourite character for sure, and just look at his wizard suit, lol^^ just too funny the words he uses, and then V :P

Sundog
2004-12-09, 06:11 PM
I just love the fact that V can call up enough humanity (elfinity?) to feel bad about squishing Elan (it's kind of like kicking a puppy) but casually smacks Belkar down for being annoying. There's a downside to being the evil one...

Pyrite
2004-12-09, 06:47 PM
Also, since Elan looks up to Vaarsuvius as a role model, what does this say about Elan's gender Identity?

Knight13
2004-12-09, 06:55 PM
I think Elan is pretty sure about his gender. After all, he was the first one to smile when Haley and V were discussing Haley's "jewels" at the inn. ;)

evileeyore
2004-12-09, 07:52 PM
Actually, I think that Belkar is Chaotic Neutral. That basically means that he does whatever he feels like doing at the time..

I too thought for awhile that Belkar was just Neutral [N/N] (and made his save back in #11 (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=11)), but recent events have changed my mind.

He is far to 'in the now' to be anything other than Chaotic, and the little blackheart is definitely Evil. His comrades had to threaten to kill him to keep him from hating poor picked on Elan.

That fits the immediacy of Chaotic but goes way past any allowed selfishness of Neutral.

Now I peg him as Chaotic Evil.

'cause he just isn't playing nice, ever--EvilE

Grey Watcher
2004-12-09, 09:33 PM
I think Elan is pretty sure about his gender. After all, he was the first one to smile when Haley and V were discussing Haley's "jewels" at the inn. ;)

That means he's secure in his sexuality, not his gender-identity. (He knows he likes women, but that doesn't say anything about whether he feels fully comfortable identifying as a man, which makes him either bisexual, a straight man, or a lesbian (pre-op)).

I got so wrapped up in pre-preordering that I almost forgot to vote at BuzzComix!

Hydro
2004-12-09, 09:49 PM
I'm pretty sure that Belkar is one of those chaotic evil characters who's has chaotic neutral on his character sheet, and manages to talk his dm out of changing it whenever the issue comes up.

This last comic was great, by the way. V's facial expression was perfect!

Christian
2004-12-09, 10:36 PM
I think that comic reached brilliance at the very first panel. "Oh, that can't be a good sign." ;D ;D ;D Roy knows Elan very well, one can tell.

Wanderer
2004-12-09, 11:43 PM
I'm pretty sure that Belkar is one of those chaotic evil characters who's has chaotic neutral on his character sheet, and manages to talk his dm out of changing it whenever the issue comes up.


There are DMs who'd let a player get away with that? Hell, my DM doesn't even let us know our alignment's changing. A cleric or a paladin will just suddenly find himself without powers. Or a party member will suddenly find himself glowing when the paladin uses Detect Evil...

White Blade
2004-12-09, 11:48 PM
There are DMs who'd let a player get away with that? Hell, my DM doesn't even let us know our alignment's changing. A cleric or a paladin will just suddenly find himself without powers. Or a party memeber will suddenly find himself glowing when the paladin uses Detect Evil...
man dude your DM sounds evil.

Wanderer
2004-12-09, 11:52 PM
*shrugs* That isn't really in question. ;)

But it's not like he just changes our alignment at random. He's just giving an element of realism to it. I mean, how often in real life do you hear "You have shifted your alignment 5 points towards evil" or something? We're the ones who DO the actions that change our alignment, he just doesn't let us know that it's been changed until it has some effect on us. After all, realistically we WOULDN'T know.

Anya
2004-12-10, 12:17 AM
To add to the Elan identity confusion, that is one sexy staff he's holding.

Mal_the_Mad
2004-12-10, 03:01 AM
wonder if its really an orb... hmmm. let me ask the magic 8 ball.... future cloudy try again later...

muahahahaha


ok post one out the door woot!!


only 99999999 to go

Hydro
2004-12-10, 03:16 AM
I noticed the 8-ball on the second read. Nice touch. ^_^()

As for dm's actualy letting chaotic evil characters call themselves chaotic neutral: ooooooooh yes. Basically, players read that CN's are "independant" and take that as a lisence to do whatever the hell they want Where'd you think Caotic Neutral got such a bad rap? :p

Callista
2004-12-10, 05:35 AM
There are DMs who'd let a player get away with that? Hell, my DM doesn't even let us know our alignment's changing. A cleric or a paladin will just suddenly find himself without powers. Or a party member will suddenly find himself glowing when the paladin uses Detect Evil...
Mine usually warns us if we're getting close, at least for alignment dependent classes. Like a cleric will get a dream, or his higher-level spells will begin to be unreliable; or a paladin will get a warning from a superior or something.

Changing a PC's alignment without warning... I'll do that, but only if it really doesn't matter all that much. For example, I changed one of my players' characters' alignments from LN to LG after she repeatedly risked her life to save a town she just happened to be passing through. She was playing a Monk.

Had I been changing the Lawful part of her alignment, I would've given her warning, since a non-lawful character can't gain levels as a Monk.

Aralen
2004-12-10, 11:11 AM
I´m here to use my frabjulituliy to mictifarcate your gilltooney!!! My junurtiquity is most biollorky! Bask in the power of my meckalecka-hi, meckahiney-ho!

It´s driving me insane!!!!!!!!

arche
2004-12-10, 11:24 AM
I love how he uses those long words without knowing what they mean. It reminds me of grad school :).

Xander77
2004-12-10, 01:34 PM
I love how he uses those long words without knowing what they mean. It reminds me of grad school :). ??? I thought he made most of those words up...

White Blade
2004-12-10, 01:41 PM
Hey Giant the curve ball that I think your planing is that elan is going to multi-class to guess what sorcerer and PRETEND he has the brains to be a wizard. that way he WILL have had the brains to cast the lowliest.

arche
2004-12-10, 01:49 PM
??? I thought he made most of those words up...


That's exactly what grad school was like. People making up words :).

evileeyore
2004-12-10, 09:39 PM
??? I thought he made most of those words up...



Eenie, meanie, chilli beanie. The spirits are about to speak...


Lo, hie hither and hearken! Indeed those most frabjous metaverbiage are the total and sum of an overwrought and exaggerated eidolon residing within the confines of Mister Burlew's purview.

Thank you and good night--EvilE

I like playing with fontage

Starbuck_II
2004-12-11, 09:55 AM
Eenie, meanie, chilli beanie. The spirits are about to speak...


Lo, hie hither and hearken! Indeed those most frabjous metaverbiage are the total and sum of an overwrought and exaggerated eidolon residing within the confines of Mister Burlew's purview.

Thank you and good night--EvilE

I like playing with fontage

The words they Speak to me! 8)

I've always wondered what those words meant when I watched that music video.

Circon
2004-12-11, 12:43 PM
I must admit that I actually understood that at a glance. ;D Shame on me. ;D ;D

"Eidolon" is perhaps the most exotic one. "Frabjous" might be argued whether it's really a word, due to the source.

Sesquipedalian verbiage is fun!

Knight13
2004-12-11, 01:17 PM
if you're going to get into exotic words, my personal favorite is defenistration. It's the act of throwing someone out a window. ;)

evileeyore
2004-12-11, 02:13 PM
Defenistration is exotic?

And here I thought it was quite common. Hmm, maybe I hang out with a rough crowd...

My favorite has always been antidisestablishmentarianism. I've not yet had the oportunity to use it. It sits in my forebrain just waiting for the moment to leap out and strike all Bruce Lee Woo-Tang Ninja Style.

Antidisestablishmentarism is just so uncommon in politics these days...--EvilE

Hydro
2004-12-11, 02:29 PM
I prefer made-up words that still make sense.

Like weirdity. Or craptitude. Or Antidiscombobulate.

cherry
2004-12-11, 02:31 PM
Why feel bad about Elan?
He'll get through this, that was the reason why Roy just ignored him :P

pumpkinetics
2004-12-11, 08:51 PM
if you're going to get into exotic words, my personal favorite is defenistration. It's the act of throwing someone out a window. ;)


Defenestration actually means throwing a book out the window.

Arian
2004-12-11, 09:03 PM
Naah. In that well-known historical event, the Defenestration of Prague, it was definitely people who were chucked out the window.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=defenestrate

http://members.aol.com/eurostamm/prague.html

I also like the Jargon File meaning of "defenestrate", namely "to remove Windows (the operating system) from a computer"

Payne
2004-12-12, 06:23 AM
I also like the Jargon File meaning of "defenestrate", namely "to remove Windows (the operating system) from a computer"


LOL
that is so good.

I need to get myself some of that.

LordofOran
2004-12-12, 07:52 AM
Lol, I love belkar's face when it's full of eggs in bacon in 127. So funny cuz his cheeks look all wierdly puffy.

On the subject, sesquipedalianisms was a thing my 5th grade teacher had us do a big chunk on.

Ah yes... The verisimilitude of the state of being taciturn is eleemosynary...

madhatter66
2004-12-12, 06:26 PM
I like words that have been verbed.

Like post, or crank, or needle. All perfectly good words until someone verbed them. :P

As far as big words go, the highest my vocabulary reaches is "discombobulate." I don't even know what it means actually, but it sounds spiffy.

Quick! Someone discombobulate that sanctimonious metafaculty!

Oh, and my favorite made-up words is "slaptard." ;D

LordofOran
2004-12-12, 06:45 PM
Mine favorite made-up word: flatulopeptic

Musrum
2004-12-12, 07:23 PM
I note that Roy subscribes to the "5 second" rule..

Nighthawk4
2004-12-13, 05:35 AM
One point I just noticed whilst clicking on refresh continually, hoping to see today's strip - the meal V is eating is different than the others. The others seem to be eating bacon and eggs. I assume V is a vegetarian, so needs a different meal? Wonder what it is?

Also, I love the way that V casually casts the spell on Belkar, when he is laughing at Elan's misery. Nice one V - serve him right. >:(

Payne
2004-12-13, 05:36 AM
In french the longest word is "anticonstitutionally" (well in french it has 4 more letters than that). I like the word.

Payne
2004-12-13, 06:12 AM
V is eating a pink grapefruit btw

Nighthawk4
2004-12-13, 06:20 AM
V is eating a pink grapefruit btw




Thanks ;)

Cap_Hardman
2004-12-13, 07:04 AM
??? Well... it's a little late... I can't start the week without the monday-reading of the newspaper, the e-mails and
THE OOTS!!!

Arian
2004-12-13, 08:14 AM
In another 45 minutes it will be Tuesday here.... and I have to fit in enough sleep before getting up for work tomorrow <sigh>. Maybe I'll have to resign myself to not seeing today's comic till tomorrow.

- Aha, I just saw the filler strip. Okie dokie. Good night, everyone. :-)

LordofOran
2004-12-13, 10:00 AM
Longest word in the english language:
pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis

Wanderer
2004-12-13, 10:12 AM
Yep. One of those delightful scientific words. Of course, I only know that one because it was in my linguistics book last year...

L_Opoponax
2004-12-13, 10:52 AM
Haley sure is protective of Elan... ;)

Ikkitosen
2004-12-13, 11:16 AM
That strip was worth the wait :).

Dommu
2004-12-13, 11:16 AM
nice... now Elan is feeling much better... wizard's are big stupid mean meanie-heads ;D

Pharazon
2004-12-13, 11:58 AM
- Aha, I just saw the filler strip. Okie dokie. Good night, everyone. :-)

Filler strip? What filler strip? I just visited the site for the first time today, and the new comic was already there. Can't believe I've missed it :'(

Anyway, today's comic was so touching... they're best buddies again, and Elan has finally given up on the wizard-ambition. Looks like it's another bard-level for him after all. And before any of you start to wonder, the fact Belkar said 'guys' probably says nothing about the great V-gender-mystery.

Oh, and I also like how Haley stands up for Elan :)

Knight13
2004-12-13, 12:04 PM
don't worry Pharazon, the filler was just a little one panel thing saying that the comic would be late. Belkar was great in this one, is this how he really is on the inside? Maybe once the spell wears off he'll get really pissed and try to kill V.

Grey Watcher
2004-12-13, 12:26 PM
AAAAACK!!!!!

Thank you Giant. That strip was so sweet I think it gave me diabetes.

Sundog
2004-12-13, 12:45 PM
I loved this one. Nothing really happens, but the character development...breathtaking!

As for Belkar trying to kill V - Please? It would be a great way to get rid of the most annoying and one-note character in the strip - I don't much like Belkar...

Crimson_Eyes
2004-12-13, 12:58 PM
Awww, V and Elan made up! :)

Loved the way Haley layed the guilt trip on... :D

RawBearNYC
2004-12-13, 01:10 PM
I saw the hailey connection coming, but didn't want to say anything for fear of putting Rich off. But who didn't expect her to come to the aid of her "Bardy-Bear"

madhatter66
2004-12-13, 02:43 PM
Wha?? Belkar's the best character!

"Run, little chunks of XP!" I almost died laughing.

And methinks there's something between Haley and Elan. I think it happened when she found out what his 18 Charisma was worth under the hood. ;D

Xander77
2004-12-13, 02:50 PM
Was that a Buffy quote? Or just a generic saying? We'll never know... unless Rich tells us, that is...

Karma
2004-12-13, 03:19 PM
So, did Elan and Vaarsuvius just get a big chunk of roleplaying XP now?

cherry
2004-12-13, 03:22 PM
Haley is sooooo sweet, :) I think she just did it because she felt like it was her dutty as the only girl in the party.

Deimos, I have to agree with you, jajaja no one can fight against that kind of 18 of charisma jajaja ;)

Crimson_Eyes
2004-12-13, 04:55 PM
I saw the hailey connection coming, but didn't want to say anything for fear of putting Rich off. But who didn't expect her to come to the aid of her "Bardy-Bear"

Hmm, me...lol :-/

Must pay more attention to continuity...lol

GypsyThorn
2004-12-13, 06:10 PM
I just love the fact that V can call up enough humanity (elfinity?) to feel bad about squishing Elan (it's kind of like kicking a puppy) but casually smacks Belkar down for being annoying. There's a downside to being the evil one...

Sorry this is late. I've been too busy with reality to pay enough attention to fantasy...

What I REALLY liked about that particular panel (#127, second to last) was that V cast the spell on Belkar without even a sidelong glance in his direction. THAT'S casual.

And I've decided the gender for V. She's female. No male could have made up with Elan like she did in #128, even with an intelligence through the roof. If V was male, the make-up session would have been "Hey, dude, sorry I dissed your duds. Buy you an ale?".

One last comment - Great apology from Elan near the end of #128 - How's that for saying you're sorry without admitting any culpability whatsover?

Grey Watcher
2004-12-13, 07:20 PM
And I've decided the gender for V. She's female. No male could have made up with Elan like she did in #128, even with an intelligence through the roof. If V was male, the make-up session would have been "Hey, dude, sorry I dissed your duds. Buy you an ale?".

Evidently you don't know any gay men, do you? :P ;D ::)

madhatter66
2004-12-13, 07:32 PM
Evidently you don't know any gay men, do you? :P ;D ::)


Exactly! Remember issue #28, after Elan's little streaking session? Haley said V "checked out his blade" and Belkar replied, "You know, I've always suspected..." In other words, V is a guy, just not a very masculine one. Besides, you don't have to be gay not to say stuff like "Dude" and "Duds." In fact, I don't know ANY guys who say "duds." :P

Blackdog
2004-12-13, 08:18 PM
Totally worth the wait. Aside from the interests of character development, I find that these occasional "mundane" strips (i.e., a day without any battles, earthquakes, or meteor strikes) give OoTS an extra dimension by framing them in their world.

(How many dimensions does that make now?) :)

bedbugsareyummy
2004-12-13, 09:22 PM
I refuse to accept that there is any chance of the V-man being female. But there's another board for that (the V's Gender Debate one). mkay?

madhatter66
2004-12-13, 10:07 PM
*sigh* Wish I could afford the OOTS book. I'd make everyone I meet read it. Seriously, I'd like, stop traffic and old people and cripples and make them read it. That would be great--spread the OOTS joy! :D

Chaotic_Wun
2004-12-14, 02:36 PM
I'm going to buy some merchandise as soon as I get the chance; that's for sure! I long for an OoTS shirt!

SumGuy
2004-12-14, 05:49 PM
I'm going to buy some merchandise as soon as I get the chance; that's for sure! I long for an OoTS shirt!

Dude! forget the shirt, save you cash for a book!

Iazmynh
2004-12-14, 08:54 PM
.... and about all those (mock?)-intelligent-sounding words from a couple days ago --- we should really try to eschew obfuscation.

I've been reading the strip for some time now, and just realized that there is a msg board on this site! This comic has inspired my husband and me to make our own strip. I've started some basic character poses. Now all we need is a plot....

And, of course, I had to make my own avatar for this site. ;D

GypsyThorn
2004-12-15, 11:23 AM
... In fact, I don't know ANY guys who say "duds." :P

Good point. I was aiming for alliteration and unfortunately avoided accuracy. Bad habit of mine.

(BTW: I think what I'm saying when I claim V is a women is what I consider to be V's preferred gender. Whether elves can be gay is a question best dealt with by the professionals.)

GypsyThorn
2004-12-15, 11:30 AM
...This comic has inspired my husband and me to make our own strip. I've started some basic character poses. Now all we need is a plot....

And, of course, I had to make my own avatar for this site. ;D

Good luck with your strip. Hey, just start posing the characters and the plot will develop itself. Give us a link if and when it gets posted. We'll bump it up to #2 at Buzzcomix.net in no time.

re: Avatars: Do you take requests from the artistically impaired for custom avatars?

Grey Watcher
2004-12-15, 11:54 PM
You know, given that Haley tells V not to use magic on Elan, I'm surprised V didn't use Eagle's Splendor on himself to compensate for his low Charisma score. Of course, maybe he passed that spell up in favor for some sort of means of arcane destruction.

Knight13
2004-12-16, 01:30 AM
if I was a wizard I probably wouldn't take Eagle's Splendor. But I like to play as a sorcerer, so Eagle's Splendor is the first spell I grab after I have all the good 2nd level BOOM spells. ;D

Hyro
2004-12-16, 01:54 AM
Elan's 8 ball staff is awesome. It would be funny if it really worked.

Payne
2004-12-16, 06:13 AM
if I was a wizard I probably wouldn't take Eagle's Splendor. But I like to play as a sorcerer, so Eagle's Splendor is the first spell I grab after I have all the good 2nd level BOOM spells. ;D


As a Necromancer/Monk, boosting Wis, Dex, In makes me an unstopabble killing machine.
(Notice the several touch spells of Necromancers ;D)

JMFD
2004-12-16, 08:55 AM
Gotta love haley's use of reverse psychology

Yellow
2004-12-16, 09:25 AM
I most certainly do...

Roy = pwned. ;D

GeeVee
2004-12-16, 10:05 AM
Was that reverse psychology or reverse reverse psychology?

Knight13
2004-12-16, 11:39 AM
actually Payne, a Pale Master/Monk works even better.

Everyone but Haley = PWNED

Crimson_Eyes
2004-12-16, 11:44 AM
Haley: sneakily devious - hehe ;D

Aedan
2004-12-16, 11:48 AM
Was that reverse psychology or reverse reverse psychology?


Yeah, was she trying to make everyone give her back the rocks by smiling deviously?

Then again, Haley's Lore is probably low, so I doubt she would know what they were worth. The only way she could trick them into taking them is if they weren't identified.

However, if Haley had come across those type of rocks before, and had brouht them to a divining pool, she might know their worth. Thus, she may try weaseling her way back to get them again.

Sebastian
2004-12-16, 11:53 AM
For Banjo's sake, Roy, It is time to GROW A SENSE MOTIVE!!!

Aedan
2004-12-16, 11:57 AM
For Banjo's sake, Roy, It is time to GROW A SENSE MOTIVE!!!

Well, again, if she was trying reverse reverse psychology, Roy may have sensed that she was trying to get at something. That may be why he changed the distribution of the loot.

Sundog
2004-12-16, 11:59 AM
Jervics to that. Haley just ripped the whole party off - again! This time was on top of all the gold she collected on her own, not to mention the "feminine products"!

Haley is my role-model...

GypsyThorn
2004-12-16, 12:25 PM
Nice comic, Rich. But you really do raise a problem that needs to be solved in the FRP community...

How do you handle the inherent conflict of interest when the character most likely to take levels in "Appraise" is also the character most likely to lie?

Seriously, who is most likely to need the skill? Thieves. And who is expected to be the sneaky, double-dealing, underhanded, non-lawful cheat-their-own-mother type? That again, would be a thief.

My suggestion: Any party member doing an appraise in this situation must agree to have it done under the influence of a "Zone of Truth" spell in the presence of the entire party while completly naked. (No rings, no bracers, no necklaces or periapts or pearls. No nothing.)

Rich: Can we see this sometime soon? With a special version for sale sans blurring? (Naked Bard at http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=25 and Naked Bard Redux at http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=26)

bedbugsareyummy
2004-12-16, 12:32 PM
Nice comic, Rich. But you really do raise a problem that needs to be solved in the FRP community...

How do you handle the inherent conflict of interest when the character most likely to take levels in "Appraise" is also the character most likely to lie?

Seriously, who is most likely to need the skill? Thieves. And who is expected to be the sneaky, double-dealing, underhanded, non-lawful cheat-their-own-mother type? That again, would be a thief.

My suggestion: Any party member doing an appraise in this situation must agree to have it done under the influence of a "Zone of Truth" spell in the presence of the entire party while completly naked. (No rings, no bracers, no necklaces or periapts or pearls. No nothing.)

Rich: Can we see this sometime soon? With a special version for sale sans blurring? (Naked Bard at http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=25 and Naked Bard Redux at http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=26)

Isn't this a PG-13 comic?Of course, with them being stick figures, you wouldn't see anything but they'd probably be off-panel anyhoo.

Let us all hope The Giant doesn't take your suggestion.Nakey stick figures....just...no.

Circon
2004-12-16, 01:39 PM
Groan. Groan. GROAN. GROAN.

Grow a Sense Motive, ONE of you! Get some Appraise skill. Houserule it in, if you must. Identify the darn rocks.
Stupidly funny this week :P


EDIT: Hey, what are those funny white panels?

Cap_Hardman
2004-12-16, 02:48 PM
I real life, the talents and tricks we learn with experience (streetwise) are the one we are mostly facing during our live ( :-/or campaign). So, it’s at least OBVIOUS that someone, after more than 120 pages and going up-level at least 2 times, think about “sense motivation”…
And there is some penalties on bluff from Haley, because everybody (even Elan… I think so) knows how she behaves about $$...

…http://images.comprador.multiply.com/image/1/photos/2/600x600/31.gif

Well… anyway, it is funnier the way Rich chosen… ::)

Nighthawk4
2004-12-16, 03:18 PM
Hey, another Classic.

I love Haley - a superb confidence trick to get them all to take a worthless rock instead of a second share of the loot.

I do hope the rocks really are worthless, Haley. ;)

GypsyThorn
2004-12-16, 03:23 PM
....I do hope the rocks really are worthless, Haley. ;)

What I really, really want is for the rocks Haley thinks are worthless to be actually something totally rocking (pun intended.) Of course then Haley would have work out some way to get Elan to share.

Fsi-Dib
2004-12-16, 04:12 PM
Am I the only one who would stab Haley this instant? Or at least throw Sense Motive, have a result of 40 (I bet she isn't that charismatic to beat it) and show off her plan. Funny how there are NO other persons in the party noticing these things. Grr.

There's nothing more I hate than sneaky rogues always after money.

OotS misses the evil wizard who has suspicions about everyone. Not believing a word others say unless he casts Detect Thoughts.

Or better yet, the Paladin. A Paladin would be doomed to have Sense Motive. And to be good and honorable and stuff. No Unearthed Arcana included.

madhatter66
2004-12-16, 05:20 PM
Perhaps, Fsi, but then there would be no joke, and that would just suck. :)

Besides, paladins=sissies, anyway.

bournie
2004-12-16, 06:19 PM
Perhaps, Fsi, but then there would be no joke, and that would just suck. :)

Besides, paladins=sissies, anyway.

Lars, Paladin in the Playground smites you down for your evil words, on a charge atop his magnificent steed. You can have 1d8 + 2 x 3 (not a crit, you're lucky) + 3. Then my horse will trample you into the ground. :P Paladins rock, so there!

Genius comic Rich, pure genius. Personally thought that some of the town comics had lost the edge, I was wrong.

GeeVee
2004-12-16, 06:19 PM
Am I the only one who would stab Haley this instant? Or at least throw Sense Motive, have a result of 40 (I bet she isn't that charismatic to beat it) and show off her plan. Funny how there are NO other persons in the party noticing these things. Grr.

There's nothing more I hate than sneaky rogues always after money.

OotS misses the evil wizard who has suspicions about everyone. Not believing a word others say unless he casts Detect Thoughts.

Or better yet, the Paladin. A Paladin would be doomed to have Sense Motive. And to be good and honorable and stuff. No Unearthed Arcana included.

Yeah, the money-grubbing, selfish nature of Haley has started to become annoying. Sort of like Road Runner and Wile E. Coyote cartoons. She can't possibly be CG! I'd stab her given the chance.

Caledonian
2004-12-16, 07:23 PM
The oddly-shaped, white panel Haley is moving around is a cartoon representation of a sheet or drape that was covering the treasure distribution piles. Haley seems to have a flair for the dramatic.

LordofOran
2004-12-16, 07:26 PM
It seems all of the OotS has terrible wisdom scores. Belkar can't see a door in plain sight, Roy and Durkon completely overlook Haley's plan, Elan is just... dumb in all mental stats but Charisma...

Haley kix @ss!

RawBearNYC
2004-12-16, 08:10 PM
Actually, based on Wisdom alone, a dwarven cleric would likely not have better than a +6 to his roll. Haley, could have a significantly higher Bluff roll. Add the whimsy inherent in a D20, and even a 21 wisdom cleric could be fooled.

Starbuck_II
2004-12-16, 08:17 PM
Groan. Groan. GROAN. GROAN.

Grow a Sense Motive, ONE of you! Get some Appraise skill. Houserule it in, if you must. Identify the darn rocks.
Stupidly funny this week :P


EDIT: Hey, what are those funny white panels?

Don't Dwarfs get a bonus on Appraisal due to metal or stone?

Elan should have Appraisal... wonder if he is working with Haley? ;D

DrDoom
2004-12-16, 08:48 PM
Elan could not appraise a Gold Coin with a number on it...

MattB
2004-12-16, 09:15 PM
My suggestion: Any party member doing an appraise in this situation must agree to have it done under the influence of a "Zone of Truth" spell in the presence of the entire party while completly naked. (No rings, no bracers, no necklaces or periapts or pearls. No nothing.)

How would Zone of Truth help? At no point did Haley deliberately or intentionally lie... and you can still mislead and be evasive in a ZoT as long as you don't actually lie.

The whole point of the strip is that the rocks *are* valueless, just as Haley said, but as no-one trusts a rogue and by making sure there were not eneough rocks for everyone Haley had calculated that the others would demand a rock each, so they do, truthfully, get more out of the deal than Haley, so she plays on that to get them to offer her a bigger share of gems and coins to compensate.

And just because a naked person states something has no value in a ZoT doesn't mean that they didn't make their save... It's only likely to be DC 17-18 ish, being a lvl2 spell.

Pyrite
2004-12-16, 09:56 PM
A zone of truth would help because they would know that when Haley said that the rocks were valueless, that she was telling the truth, and wouldn't suspect that they were valuable.

DamotheBoyWonder
2004-12-16, 09:59 PM
Good point. I was aiming for alliteration and unfortunately avoided accuracy. Bad habit of mine.

(BTW: I think what I'm saying when I claim V is a women is what I consider to be V's preferred gender. Whether elves can be gay is a question best dealt with by the professionals.)


..... Dr. J R R Ruth?

cherry
2004-12-16, 10:45 PM
Haley is SOOOOO cool.
I've donde that kind of things some times but with candy and bodka (don't ask); lets just say that around 3am and with someone with a little bit of alcohol in the body you can get almost whatever you want ;), jeje

Duskrider_Moogle
2004-12-16, 11:45 PM
I like how the piles of treasure are arranged and shaped to look like slices of pizza :p

arche
2004-12-17, 10:46 AM
Based on that last comic, my last employer was Haley :(.

MattB
2004-12-17, 12:38 PM
A zone of truth would help because they would know that when Haley said that the rocks were valueless, that she was telling the truth, and wouldn't suspect that they were valuable.
They'd still be suspicious of why a sneaky, devious rogue wanted to have the rocks rather than the loot, and probably suspect Haley had made her save... especially if she said they were valueless with the right inflection and a twinkle in her eye and a slight smile on her lips...

In a Zone of Truth you cannot deliberately lie if you fail your save... but there is nothing to say you can't still use Bluff to make the others think you might have made your save or really know more than you are saying...

The_Shadow
2004-12-17, 02:50 PM
I see Xykon isn't the only one with ranks in Reverse Psychology...

Now I'm starting to want to write up this skill. ;)

Narfink
2004-12-17, 03:20 PM
It is called Bluff. No need to write a new skill for it.

White Blade
2004-12-17, 03:24 PM
No its not, Bluff is about making people think what your saying is true when its not.

Xander77
2004-12-17, 04:11 PM
No its not, Bluff is about making people think what your saying is true when its not.No, it is. Read the skill description. Or better yet, www.dictionary.com

::)

Eloco
2004-12-17, 11:12 PM
The only reason everyone fell for Haleys plan, is beacuse the plot demanded it. Elan maybe, but the rest of them are savy enough at adventure and they know Haley... If it was a good plan, maybe but it really wasnt. Its really just a typical sterotype joke about how men become idiots around a cute female...

cherry
2004-12-17, 11:50 PM
I don't think that is just because she's a girl, but because she keeps messing with them and tryes to keep the good part of the stuff as the rogue she is and the guys kept falling for it. ;)

MattB
2004-12-18, 12:10 AM
The only reason everyone fell for Haleys plan, is beacuse the plot demanded it. Elan maybe, but the rest of them are savy enough at adventure and they know Haley... If it was a good plan, maybe but it really wasnt. Its really just a typical sterotype joke about how men become idiots around a cute female...

It's nothing to do with Haley being female... it's a stereotype joke about distrust of rogues and rogues taking advantage of it

madhatter66
2004-12-18, 12:42 AM
I still love Elan better'n any of 'em. Poor dumb bastard. ::)

Eloco
2004-12-18, 02:55 AM
Several times the guys have shown Haley that they can be swayed by her feminine charms. I cant even find a single time that she didnt get her way. So your trying to tell me this has nothing to do with the fact she is an attractive female, and has to do with her being an exceptional rogue.. please.....

Im not saying its wrong, its very roguish for her to do so. Im just saying this time its not believable. So really debating the rules of the game(truth spells and using bluff) on the matter is really pointless. The plan worked because it needed to for the joke to continue, not because its a plausable plan.

If Haley was a dwarven male rogue, this plan woud not have worked, not even for a second.

RawBearNYC
2004-12-18, 11:55 AM
Several times the guys have shown Haley that they can be swayed by her feminine charms. I cant even find a single time that she didnt get her way. So your trying to tell me this has nothing to do with the fact she is an attractive female, and has to do with her being an exceptional rogue.. please.....

Im not saying its wrong, its very roguish for her to do so. Im just saying this time its not believable. So really debating the rules of the game(truth spells and using bluff) on the matter is really pointless. The plan worked because it needed to for the joke to continue, not because its a plausable plan.

If Haley was a dwarven male rogue, this plan woud not have worked, not even for a second.

Haley is an attractive female and she knows how to use that to get her way. That's a functioning of the Bluff skill. If she'd had no ranks in Bluff, then she'd be an attractive female that wasn't very good at manipulating her teammates.

Grey Watcher
2004-12-18, 01:51 PM
Personally, I don't think her "feminine charms" have much to do with it. I think a Dwarven Male could have just as easily pulled off this scam. It's based entirely on them knowing her greedy nature. I would think feminine wile would involve her getting all coy and flirty with with one of the others to get them to be nice to her.

Oh, and Rich is gonna hate me for saying this, but the stones disappear for a moment in the first panel of the third row for no apparent reason.

Duskrider_Moogle
2004-12-18, 04:33 PM
Several times the guys have shown Haley that they can be swayed by her feminine charms. I cant even find a single time that she didnt get her way. So your trying to tell me this has nothing to do with the fact she is an attractive female, and has to do with her being an exceptional rogue.. please.....

Im not saying its wrong, its very roguish for her to do so. Im just saying this time its not believable. So really debating the rules of the game(truth spells and using bluff) on the matter is really pointless. The plan worked because it needed to for the joke to continue, not because its a plausable plan.

If Haley was a dwarven male rogue, this plan woud not have worked, not even for a second.

Uh? Is your argument that only attractive females can swindle people? She's not doing anything particularly feminine here, after all.

And as for there not being "a single time that she didn't get her way", see the Linear Guild thing. She was insistant on the fact that going along with the Linear Guild would hurt her share of the treasure, XP, etc. (and also probably end really badly) yet the team went on with it anyway.

arche
2004-12-18, 10:45 PM
You are all missing the point. Every one of them rolled a 1 on their sense motive check and Haley rolled a 20 on her bluff. Plus the group isn't usually all that good with common sense anyway.

Grey Watcher
2004-12-18, 11:16 PM
You are all missing the point. Every one of them rolled a 1 on their sense motive check and Haley rolled a 20 on her bluff. Plus the group isn't usually all that good with common sense anyway.

True, true, the point is that the Order of the Stick isn't the sharpest set of knives, and Haley is swindilicious.

arche
2004-12-19, 11:12 PM
Oh, and Rich is gonna hate me for saying this, but the stones disappear for a moment in the first panel of the third row for no apparent reason.
As long as he doesn't send the Order of the Stick after you, you'll be fine :). Actually, you'd be fine anyway as they'd probably all get hit by a car considering how bright they are sometimes ;D.

The Giant
2004-12-20, 05:33 AM
Several times the guys have shown Haley that they can be swayed by her feminine charms. I cant even find a single time that she didnt get her way. So your trying to tell me this has nothing to do with the fact she is an attractive female, and has to do with her being an exceptional rogue.. please.....

Im not saying its wrong, its very roguish for her to do so. Im just saying this time its not believable. So really debating the rules of the game(truth spells and using bluff) on the matter is really pointless. The plan worked because it needed to for the joke to continue, not because its a plausable plan.

If Haley was a dwarven male rogue, this plan woud not have worked, not even for a second.

Sorry, but you are incorrect. There's nothing feminine about this strip, it's a straight-up rogue-is-a-greedy-swindler joke. If I had designed the OOTS party to have a dwarven rogue, I would have made the same joke. The swindle works because they DON'T TRUST Haley, not because they are attracted to her.

Haley can persuade the rest of the party because she is the only one in the party with a lot of ranks in Bluff, and the rest of the party has few-to-no ranks in Sense Motive, as has been shown time and again with many different people (Haley, Nale, the goblin kid, etc.) It is entirely consistent with previous events. In fact, Haley has never used "feminine wiles" EVER. All of her bluffs are based on pure trickery.

Shatteredtower
2004-12-20, 07:07 AM
In fact, Haley has never used "feminine wiles" EVER.

While I agree with everything else you wrote, I believe you've made a mistake with this particular claim. May I remind you of the events that took place in the one hundredth strip (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=100)?

GeeVee
2004-12-20, 07:46 AM
Finally an explanation on why you sometimes find these stupid magic items. :o

Rich Burlew, you are my hero! ;)

Gom_Golagoog
2004-12-20, 10:50 AM
In the 3.5 SRD, there is no Ring of Jumping that gives a +20 bonus (only +10). There's nothing preventing someone from making one except that, if you use the other Rings of Jumping as a template, it would require the creator to have 20 ranks in the Jump skill. Can anyone think of a spell-casting class with Jump as a class skill? ;-)

Knight13
2004-12-20, 11:03 AM
so that's where all those pointless magic items come from, drunken wizards! You gotta love Belkar saying "He can pronounce 'stratosphere' but he can't pronounce 'the'?" Now I'm just waiting for Belkar to use his new ring to get something off of a high shelf or smack someone in the face.

SimonMoon5
2004-12-20, 11:39 AM
Hey, I *like* bags of tricks. All of my mid- to high-level characters that can't cast summoning spells end up buying one. Having endless lab-rats to summon has a million uses: testing to see whether a nasty-looking pool is magical or just nasty, testing to see where a magic portal goes (throw in the critter and scry), testing to see if a room is trapped...

So many uses.

Peldor
2004-12-20, 01:34 PM
Ugh, getting the last magic item is always a recipe for disappointment. :'(

At least Roy got a completely normal grey rock! ;)

Eslington
2004-12-20, 03:10 PM
Can anyone think of a spell-casting class with Jump as a class skill? ;-)

Bard, Ranger, I'd have to check but Paladin?

Narfink
2004-12-20, 03:14 PM
Paladins don't even get to sniff Jump. Their skill list is atrocious.

Sebastian
2004-12-20, 03:33 PM
True, true, the point is that the Order of the Stick isn't the sharpest set of knives.

Well, of course, They are sticks. ;)

Sebastian
2004-12-20, 03:40 PM
In the 3.5 SRD, there is no Ring of Jumping that gives a +20 bonus (only +10). There's nothing preventing someone from making one except that, if you use the other Rings of Jumping as a template, it would require the creator to have 20 ranks in the Jump skill. Can anyone think of a spell-casting class with Jump as a class skill? ;-)

And if I can say it, that is a really stupid prereq for a magic item.

Gom_Golagoog
2004-12-20, 04:12 PM
Bard, Ranger, I'd have to check but Paladin?

A (non-epic) ranger has a maximum caster level of 10, not enough to get the Forge Ring feat. I suppose some long-forgotten 17th level bard sweated and toiled to reach the (near-)pinnacle of his profession and finally was able to create his masterwork...a Ring of Greater Jumping. ;-)

arche
2004-12-20, 04:30 PM
A (non-epic) ranger has a maximum caster level of 10, not enough to get the Forge Ring feat. I suppose some long-forgotten 17th level bard sweated and toiled to reach the (near-)pinnacle of his profession and finally was able to create his masterwork...a Ring of Greater Jumping. ;-)
Don't forget, that bard was probably a halfling with a low wisdom & intelligence. Created the Ring of Greater Jumping just to get items off the top shelf :).

madhatter66
2004-12-20, 07:20 PM
Meh. I like the "elveniest" boots of elvenkind the best. Gotta get me some o' those. ;D

Knight13
2004-12-20, 08:13 PM
Wait a second, why does Haley need 8 Bags of Holding? Isn't a Bag of Holding's holding capacity technically infinite?

Grey Watcher
2004-12-20, 08:30 PM
Wait a second, why does Haley need 8 Bags of Holding? Isn't a Bag of Holding's holding capacity technically infinite?

Nope:


Bag of Holding: This appears to be a common cloth sack about 2 feet by 4 feet in size. The bag of holding opens into a nondimensional space: Its inside is larger than its outside dimensions. Regardless of what is put into the bag, it weighs a fixed amount. This weight, and the limits in weight and volume of the bag’s contents, depend on the bag’s type, as shown on the table below.

{table]TypeBag WeightContents Weight LimitVolume Weight LimitType I15 lb.250 lb.30 cu. ft.Type II25 lb.500 lb.70 cu. ft.Type III35 lb.1,000 lb.150 cu. ft.Type IV60 lb.1,500 lb.250 cu. ft.[/table]

If the bag is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the bag ruptures and is ruined. All contents are lost forever.

Jeez Haley, sell some treasure already!

Eslington
2004-12-20, 11:34 PM
If she sold the treasure she'd need somewhere to keep all the platinum she'd get.

Caledonian
2004-12-21, 09:14 AM
It's a good thing you can't store Bags of Holding within Bags of Holding. I shudder to think of what Haley would attempt if that were the case.

arche
2004-12-21, 11:34 AM
Does Haley ever go on shopping sprees? She could buy and sell this group 5 times, but probably never will because she likes loot in it's pure form.

Shatteredtower
2004-12-21, 12:27 PM
At least Roy got a completely normal grey rock! ;)

Oh, good! Someone else sees the Charlie Brown connection!

I realize that Roy has a good reason for wearing Xykon's crown, but it is a bit striking that he'd be the only one wearing gold jewelry that offers no magical benefit. I'm reading too much into that, however.

cherry
2004-12-21, 02:40 PM
Jeez Haley, sell some treasure already!
Sell treasure :o please!, one can never have enough stuff, specially if you are a girl ;)

Gdrad
2004-12-21, 02:49 PM
Nice comic. is there any use for that bag of tricks?

hmoulding
2004-12-21, 03:15 PM
Nice comic. is there any use for that bag of tricks?

The Bag of Tricks comes in three colors. The grey one is the "useless" one. :-/ The rust colored one can produce a wolf or a boar, among other critters. The tan one can put out a war horse or a rhinoceros, among other fairly potent beasts.

MattB
2004-12-21, 04:32 PM
It's a good thing you can't store Bags of Holding within Bags of Holding. I shudder to think of what Haley would attempt if that were the case.
Where does it say you can't?

The DMG says you can't put bags of holding in portable holes or vice versa... doesn't say anything about putting bags of holding in bags or holding or portable holes in portable holes..

Ronfar
2004-12-21, 07:17 PM
Hmmm... Roy has a bag that makes rats. He also has the Great Cleave Feat. You know what that means?

It's time for the infamous rules abuse known as the Bag'O'Rats Fighter! Summon a rat. Get an Attack of Opportunity because it appeared in your threatened area. Then use Great Cleave to get a free attack against a Big Bad Enemy Guy, and repeat. Alternately, summon a whole lot, use Whirlwind Attack to kill them all at once, then Great Cleave a Big Bad Enemy Guy once for each rat you summoned.

Sundog
2004-12-21, 11:19 PM
Sorry, but you can't use Great Cleave (or Cleave) in a turn when you used Whirlwind Attack. Says so in 3.5.
But your first idea should work...

Eloco
2004-12-22, 02:44 AM
Sell treasure please!, one can never have enough stuff, specially if you are a girl.

Haley being a female has nothing to do with that, its because shes a rogue.. lets not forget that ;D

Gez
2004-12-22, 04:01 AM
Finally an explanation on why you sometimes find these stupid magic items. :o

Rich Burlew, you are my hero! ;)

You made me register just because of that. Haley says "what kind of wizard spends his time making such a stupid magic item", but look at the bag of trick's crafting prerequisites -- summon nature's ally spells.

I haven't seen the rule that let a drunken wizard cast druidic spells. Which page of the Player's Handbook is it? Does you need a feat? A "Drunken Caster" prestige class? :D

PS: Summoning rats or badgers for free can be useful. Could be used to distract other wild animals, like hungry dire wolves, to "disarm" traps, or to test food or water to see if it's poisoned. And the throw-through-portal-then-scry-on-it trick is neat, too. Plus, it's useful to spies or burglars when they make noise in a place they shouldn't be. The good old "ah, it's only a cat, false alarm" trick. Even if the guard could try to kill the poor critter just in case it's a spying familiar.

Airo
2004-12-22, 05:13 AM
Drunken wizards with Limited Wish,
or Wish if they are drunken enough.

arche
2004-12-22, 10:14 AM
Speaking of using rats to disarm traps, etc....what are the ethical implications? Is it wrong to subject animal life to such torment? I wonder if the ranger/druid of the party might find that objectionable.

TO_Incognito
2004-12-22, 10:52 AM
"I wonder if the ranger/druid of the party might find that [(the using of Bag of Tricks animals to 'disarm' traps)] objectionable."

Are you joking? Belkar find the killing of small animals objectionable? He'd try to kill them for experience!