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Booksie
2008-02-08, 09:22 AM
I've only ever heard of the Red Wizards, don't really know much about them safe that they are specialized specialized wizards. Slightly double there, but, no matter.

I'm not altogether sure what to ask about this prestige class, because, quite frankly, I don't know much about them to begin with. And to top that off, this is the first magic user I'm using on D&D. I've only ever used Rogues. :smallbiggrin:

Anyone know anything about this prestige class? Like, perhaps;


What type of magic to specialize in for damage?
Which schools of magic are dropable?
Is there any 'better' prestige class to choose for a Wizard?
which spells are useful?
how the +1 to caster level works?
Which Metamagic/Create Item Feats are useful to get as a prereq for this prestige
When to get these Feats, and how (bonus or plain feats)


Well, that's about as good a start as I can make for now. Thank ya'll in advance. :smallwink:

Gralamin
2008-02-08, 09:32 AM
What type of magic to specialize in for damage?
Damage wise, assuming you have access to Spell Compendium, Conjuration will probably be a better bet then the damage central Evocation.

Which schools of magic are dropable?
Evocation, Enchantment, Necromancy

Is there any 'better' prestige class to choose for a Wizard?
Yes tons. In Core there is the Archmage, outside of Core there is things such as Master Specialist, Incantrix, Initiate of the Sevenfolded Veil, and many more.

which spells are useful?
Depending on your DM, Divination spells may be the most usfeul spells. Dispel magic is also useful, as well as dozens of other spells.

how the +1 to caster level works?
You basically gain one Wizard level, but do not gain any class features of wizards except spellcasting.

Which Metamagic/Create Item Feats are useful to get as a prereq for this prestige
A great deal of metamagic is a good grab. Item Creation Feats are best used by an Artificer, If you have the class available.

When to get these Feats, and how (bonus or plain feats)
It doesn't really matter how or when you grab feats, as long as you grab prerequisites as quickly as possible.

I recommend you read TLN's Guide to Wizards. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500)

its_all_ogre
2008-02-08, 09:39 AM
this prc is an interesting one, i do not have many books outside of core just phb 2 and comp adventurer so this will colour my views hugely.
the red wizard in 3.0 ed was massively powerful and they had to tone it down somewhat for 3.5, which was a good thing i feel.
the main thing going for it is the tattoo feat and getting followers to gain access to the circle magic.
sacrificing minions powers to boost your own is great for boosting your personal power and very ic for an evil character.
i am using it now for an npc group of mages and it provides the illusion of a really powerful leader from boosts stolen from the followers.
depends on campaign and dm how powerful this will become.

one game i've always wanted to try would be all pcs are red wizards and on a mass venture together!

palindrome
2008-02-08, 10:28 AM
Red wizards are godly. That's all there is to it.

But it might not be a good PrC for your first time playing a spellcaster. You're going to have a lot of spells that you are never going even get the chance to look at. Your first time through you should probably play a generalist and play around, try a few things. It would bite hard going into Red Wizard thinking you like conjuration only to find out that Illusion or Enchantment schools are a lot more fun.

I love playing a specialist. I think it's one of the best things a wizard can do. But you might want to find out what kind of wizard you enjoy playing before you take a PrC that is as exclusive as the Red Wizard. You might look into the Master Specialist. They have great benefits and you don't have to select another prohibited school.

Booksie
2008-02-08, 10:31 AM
Hmm, well, what I want to make is an rp 'fire wizard'. Not too sure which class is most suited for such a task though. Any suggestions on that field?

I know about Archmage, just don't really understand the way the class works. And this Master Specialist sounds intriguing. Care to explain a bit more about those two?

AKA_Bait
2008-02-08, 10:35 AM
Hmm, well, what I want to make is an rp 'fire wizard'. Not too sure which class is most suited for such a task though. Any suggestions on that field?

I know about Archmage, just don't really understand the way the class works. And this Master Specialist sounds intriguing. Care to explain a bit more about those two?

You can make a 'fire wizard' any number of ways. A better question for you I think is what do you want this wizard to be able to do in terms of fire stuff?

If you just want a wizard that casts fire spells, wreathes himself in flames etc, I'd actually suggest not doing a wizard at all and going warmage with the energy substitution feat.

imperialspectre
2008-02-08, 10:45 AM
For a fire wizard, what jumps out at first glance is an evoker throwing fireballs around. It's a trap! Don't do that. Instead, play a conjurer with orb of fire, an energy-substituted acid fog, and of course summon fire elementals and such.

The Archmage is pretty simple: you have tons of spell slots from being a high-level wizard with sky-high INT, right? So you give up a few of those spell slots for interesting "special" abilities, such as mastery of elements, which would let you turn any elemental damage spell (Cone of Cold, for example, if you weren't banning Evocation) into a fire spell. Another way to make your acid fog a flaming fog.

The Master Specialist is kind of mediocre for a conjurer for the first few levels; the bonus Spell Focus feats don't help as much for a school that's mostly without save-or-else spells, and the first couple Esoterica class features only give your summons a few extra HP and a little resistance to dispels. The Major Esoterica at 10th level is just awesome, though--conjuration spells basically auto-quickened? Yes, please.

kamikasei
2008-02-08, 10:49 AM
If you just want a wizard that casts fire spells, wreathes himself in flames etc, I'd actually suggest not doing a wizard at all and going warmage with the energy substitution feat.

Or a kineticist, which preserves the wizard's stat distribution.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-02-08, 10:55 AM
Re-flavor a warlock. Just describe what the spells do a bit differently, get your DM to do so as well, and you should be good.

AKA_Bait
2008-02-08, 10:57 AM
Or a kineticist, which preserves the wizard's stat distribution.

I'm not actually familar with that class. Is that psionics?


Re-flavor a warlock. Just describe what the spells do a bit differently, get your DM to do so as well, and you should be good.

I was thinking about that too. I didn't want to suggest anything that was just reflavoring in full since I'm not sure the OP and his group are up for that sort of thing. Hellfire Warlock would go nicely with it though.

kamikasei
2008-02-08, 11:17 AM
I'm not actually familar with that class. Is that psionics?

It's a psion with the blastiest discipline, equivalent to an evoker.

AKA_Bait
2008-02-08, 11:49 AM
It's a psion with the blastiest discipline, equivalent to an evoker.

Ah, that would be why. Psionics and I don't get along.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-02-08, 11:55 AM
Better yet. A PYROkineticist. Much better than a wizard for that, and I think it got a way to vulnerate DR to fire.

Gralamin
2008-02-08, 06:03 PM
Better yet. A PYROkineticist. Much better than a wizard for that, and I think it got a way to vulnerate DR to fire.

Pyrokineticists do not increase manifester levels, so this is a rather poor choice.

Bag_of_Holding
2008-02-08, 06:11 PM
Try Changeling Focused Dual Specialist wizard/Red Wizard!

You'll have to drop 3 for being DSW, +1 for being focused and yet another one for being RED!! What's wrong with being RED?!!!

Anyway, as DSW you'll automatically specialise in Illusion and Transmutation, and you will be forced to give up: abjuration, conjuration, enchantment, evocation and necromancy! Am I even a wizard anymore?

Serpent
2008-02-08, 06:13 PM
I know a Red Wizard Transmuter whose signature kill is Flesh to Stone followed by a disintegrate.

Fax Celestis
2008-02-08, 06:15 PM
Try Changeling Focused Dual Specialist wizard/Red Wizard!

You'll have to drop 3 for being DSW, +1 for being focused and yet another one for being RED!! What's wrong with being RED?!!!

Anyway, as DSW you'll automatically specialise in Illusion and Transmutation, and you will be forced to give up: abjuration, conjuration, enchantment, evocation and necromancy! Am I even a wizard anymore?

Changeling Focused Dual Specialist Abjurer-Transmuter/Incantatrix/Red Wizard. I have access to three (count them, one, two, three. Three!) Three schools of magic. Ah ah ah.

AslanCross
2008-02-08, 07:32 PM
I've only ever heard of the Red Wizards, don't really know much about them safe that they are specialized specialized wizards. Slightly double there, but, no matter.


Since the crunch stuff has been dealt with, the fluff behind the Red Wizards is that they're originally from Thay, a Forgotten Realms country that's basically a magocracy with some serious ambitions. The wizards are mostly evil and all of them are mean, to say the least. They favor specialization a lot, and each of the eight schools of magic has a prince-like wizard (Zulkir) who rules over it and a good-sized chunk of the country. The strongest of them is currently the Zulkir of Necromancy, the lich Szass Tam. They included the class in the DMG to allow for people to reflavor it to fit in any campaign setting.

Booksie
2008-02-09, 03:17 AM
If you just want a wizard that casts fire spells, wreathes himself in flames etc, I'd actually suggest not doing a wizard at all and going warmage with the energy substitution feat.



Well, the book complete arcane is on its way to my door, as well it should be. I tried making a warmage online for a test run real quick, but wasn't able to get the EnSub Fire feat. What are the prereqs for it? And I take it the bonusses and so on and build up of character, as well as the amount of spells a first level warmage is allowed to learn are all in Complete Arcane?

Cheers. :smallsmile:

FinalJustice
2008-02-09, 03:57 AM
May I suggest you a Sorcerer? (I love Sorcerers)

Face it, you want to blast and set stuff on fire, and since you seem kinda new to the spellcasting job, sorc is easier to handle if you get some good advice on your choices, which you can find here.

To the crunch stuff. Sorcerer until you can get in a good PRC. Elemental Savant is pretty nice, CArc, all your energy spells are automatically fire. Plus, you end up becoming a fire elemental. Get access to Sandstorm, take Fiery Spell (+1 Damage for each damage die of the spell) and Searing Spell (Ignore fire resistance and deal half damage even when the target is immune to fire). Empower Spell is also good.

Since all your energy damage spells will deal fire damage, pick, say, one blast each spell level, taking care not to have redundant spells. Grab a cone, a line, a burst, ray (Scorching Ray is a must), orb, whatever. Fill the rest with protection and utility such as displacement, fly, mirror image, invisibility, acid (or, should we say fire) fog. If you wanna go the Sorcerer way, don't be shy to ask for spell selection advice, really.

You'll be spending one full round to cast your metamagicked spells most of the time (You can circunvent this at the expense of your familiar with the PHBII substitution or a feat from CMage), but it will be fiery blasty as you want. Keep in mind that you won't outdamage fighter types, don't get frustrated with that. Another option is taking Arcane Thesis (PHBII) on the Orb of Fire spell. This will reduce in 1 the metamagic level cost for your Orb of Fire, meaning you can Fiery and Searing it for free, Empower it for +1, Maximize for +2, etc...

Have fun.