Resurrection can't bring ghosts back

[Kami2awa]

Roy's manifestation as a ghost on the material plane raises a problem; he's now an undead creature and undead creatures can't be resurrected until they've been destroyed (or maybe just returned to Celestia)...

[Raging_Pacifist]

Then he'll just go back.....

[Souju]

he's not technically an undead creature since no one, under normal circumstances, can perceive him and he can't affect the world around him in any way other than talking to the theoretical guy that CAN see him

[Parvum]

he's not technically an undead creature since no one, under normal circumstances, can perceive him and he can't affect the world around him in any way other than talking to the theoretical guy that CAN see him

If he is a ghost (there's probably an arguement to the contrary, an arguement in favor, and one debating which arguement is more worthy somewhere on the forums), then these rules would apply to him. We haven't had any evidence (presented) to the contrary, no one actually said that he would follow the same rules as his father (or even that his father actually knew all the rules).

[Craig1f]

He's not a Ghost, he's a ghost. Or a spirit. Or whatever you want to call him. He's dead, so he can be brought back.

[Stormwolf]

Maybe Roy's (non) appearance could be considered a form of inverse astral / planar projection rather than as a ghost. Uh oh... now someone is going to get all technical on me....Remember Rule 0 applies here ;)

[Raging_Pacifist]

Being a dead creature on the material plane he technicaly is undead. Also I believe you must be on your afterlife plane to ressurect.

[David Argall]

Roy does not count as undead for the purpose of spells like Raise Dead. One reason is that he is not powered by negative energy, as undead are. He is simply a spirit that can be called back to the body.

[Raging_Pacifist]

Huh. Good point.

[factotum]

Since all creatures with template "ghost" can manifest on the material plane, and Roy seems unable to do so, I think we can assume he isn't a ghost in the way the D&D rules define one.

[Raging_Pacifist]

Since all creatures with template "ghost" can manifest on the material plane, and Roy seems unable to do so, I think we can assume he isn't a ghost in the way the D&D rules define one.

Or he does not know how.

[silvadel]

I'd hazzard to guess it would be EASIER to bring roy back seeing as the spirit is already there

[Raging_Pacifist]

I'll second that.

[Kami2awa]

I'd hazzard to guess it would be EASIER to bring roy back seeing as the spirit is already there

Unless Resurrection calls a spirit back from the outer planes only. If its not there, no luck.

[Kyeudo]

Roy is currently an oath spirit, similar to the paladin ghosts that defended the gate. He is positive energy powered.

[NorseItalian]

I think he's just using a "speak with living" spell.

[VetMichael]

Being a dead creature on the material plane he technicaly is undead. Also I believe you must be on your afterlife plane to ressurect.

Not necessarily, spirits that are called back from the afterlife are not undead per se particularly in Roy's case because he is NOT animated by negative energy. All undead are animated in some way, shape or form by energy from the Negative Plane. Undying ("good" dead things that will not die permanantly) are likewise animated by energy from the Positive Plane, so Roy is disqualified there as well. Finally, since he is not affecting the Prime Material Plane, he should be considered a soul or spirit, rather than a Ghost (with the big "G" as Craig1f notes)

Essentially, he's just a non-physical planar traveler who is able to perceive the Prime Material Plane, but unable to be perceived.

[Parvum]

Ghosts can't affect the material plane unless they Manifest, and there's noone that tells you you have this ability.


Roy does not count as undead for the purpose of spells like Raise Dead. One reason is that he is not powered by negative energy, as undead are. He is simply a spirit that can be called back to the body.

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest Roy is anything. He could be a positive energy oath spirit, he could be a negative energy Ghost. We haven't received the information yet.

[Roderick_BR]

He's not a Ghost, he's a ghost. Or a spirit. Or whatever you want to call him. He's dead, so he can be brought back.
That's what I said in the other thread. Roy is just a spirit. He's not a creature with the Ghost template. I mean, how you call the souls of people that can't become Ghosts (due to requisites, like 5 levels/hit dices), and can still be contacted? (Speak with Dead doesn't apply, as it actually speaks with a temporarily animated body)
Roy has no special power or restriction, more than a normal soul has. How the Giant will deal with special information (he can see things from way up, and find things others can't), is besides me.

[Icewalker]

Yeah, he isn't an undead, he is just a dead (Hehe, a dead as a noun) visiting the material plane in an incorporeal manifestation.

[Swordlol]

Or he does not know how.

Arguements like those are literally like poking holes in air.

[The Extinguisher]

Not really. Don't capital g ghosts need to manifest conciously.

[chibibar]

Power by negative energy would cause problem as Roy enter Celestria :) negative energy cannot exist there unless allow by the locals (if rule applies)

Roy is a Spirit. He has major restriction in terms of communication and manifestation. (thus far he can't just appear) basically when the rez spell is cast, his spirit will be pulled away and back into his new body (regenerated and such)

[Jowston]

If you read ghostwalk, which may not apply to this, but is fun. Ressurection or raise dead is all the easier with the spirit nearby, no loss of level or constitution.

[Souju]

Power by negative energy would cause problem as Roy enter Celestria :) negative energy cannot exist there unless allow by the locals (if rule applies)


What about the team of evil adventurers?

[factotum]

What about the team of evil adventurers?

Evil adventurers aren't powered by negative energy, so what relevance does that have?

[Nerd-o-rama]

I thought willing undead could be raised by Res spells anyway. It's just most undead are warped parodies of their earthly life with no interest in becoming all warm and squishy again.

I may be making this up, though, as I can't find rules to back it up.

[chibibar]

I thought willing undead could be raised by Res spells anyway. It's just most undead are warped parodies of their earthly life with no interest in becoming all warm and squishy again.

I may be making this up, though, as I can't find rules to back it up.

I think you might be on to something on this :)
I have a house rule that is a spirit is close by, it is easier to rez because of it :)

[BisectedBrioche]

If Roy had the ghost template then wouldn't he be neutral evil instead of lawful good now?

[Shraik]

I don't think he's a ghost. Because I think going to heaven in the first place and being able to go back is what gets rid of said qualification.

[ssjKammak]

The question posed is resurrection cannot bring back ghosts, as many have pointed out the technicalities of roys condition, make roy generally resurrect-able by any of the resurrection spells in the DND world. However anyone can be resurrected in the DnD world in some manner, the wish spell has no limitations at all (in a campaign it only has limitations to control players from running the game). So there is no reason Roy cannot be resurrected ghost or not.

Just an aussies 2 cents
Cheers

[chibibar]

So basically there are threeschools of thought then?

1. Roy cannot be resurrected because he is currently roaming as a ghost.

2. Roy cannot be resurrected because Roy left Celestria and thus need to return before he could be resurrected?

3. Roy can be resurrected since he is not infused with negative energy (as other ghosts) and regardless if he is in our out of Celestria.