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AKA_Bait
2008-02-08, 02:31 PM
Ok, so I need a way to have a vampire not be detected by a detect undead spell/SLA. I had pretty much assumed that there would be a spell out there which would handle it for me, but I can't seem to find one.

So, how do I hide my vampire?

The only way I've come up with is giving him a homebrewed magical item.

Ring of the Hidden Terror

This platinum ring holds a large red stone in its center. The wearer is continually immune to all information gathering divinations including any attempts to magically discern the wearers alignment, creature type, or location. The ring itself appears to be a quite ordinary, if expensive, ring. It emits no magical aura.

CL 15rd; Forge Ring, Mind Blank, Magic Aura; Price 240,000 gp.

Any other ideas?

Kioran
2008-02-08, 02:34 PM
Thereīs also the "Mantle of great stealth" in the Epic Items in the SRD, though itīs boni to hide and move silently might be a bit over the top for a normal game......

AmberVael
2008-02-08, 02:37 PM
Um... well, there is Nondetection, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/nondetection.htm) which protects against Detect spells, and there is also Mind Blank (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mindBlank.htm) which, as quoted:

This spell protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects.
So I'd say either of those would work.


As for items using those spells... there is the Third Eye of Conceal. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/universalItems.htm#conceal)

Shishnarfne
2008-02-08, 02:56 PM
I actually prefer Misdirection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/misdirection.htm) myself...

Now to find a sufficiently similar individual to use as a target of the spell...

Then, instead, they find out about your friend.

Edit:
However, they do get a Will Save... so it's not foolproof.

AKA_Bait
2008-02-08, 03:03 PM
Um... well, there is Nondetection, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/nondetection.htm) which protects against Detect spells, and there is also Mind Blank (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mindBlank.htm)

Mindblank I'm pretty sure would not. You skipped the first sentence of the spell there


The subject is protected from all devices and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts.

It's limited to spells that detect, influence or read emotions or thoughts. I assume the next sentence modifies the first. I certianly don't feel like having a tiff with my players over it.

About nondetection and misdirection, they have to roll a caster level check or a save. That's a problem. My players have a tedency to metagame so if I'm actually going to surprise them with something then the detect undead simply has to see nothing, rather than having a roll and then it seeing nothing.


As for items using those spells... there is the Third Eye of Conceal. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/universalItems.htm#conceal)

Sadly, no psionics in my game.

Shishnarfne
2008-02-08, 04:08 PM
About nondetection and misdirection, they have to roll a caster level check or a save. That's a problem. My players have a tedency to metagame so if I'm actually going to surprise them with something then the detect undead simply has to see nothing, rather than having a roll and then it seeing nothing.





Good point. Maybe you could make a roll quietly behind the screen? Alternative: have a few pre-generated d20 rolls on your notes... when they do something that would be a "I'll just roll this, and make sure that I know this stat on your sheet..." scenario, you can just glance at the next number in the line... although if they're sufficiently meta-game prone, they'll assume something from the pause:smalleek: .


You know your players, I don't. You make the call if this would work with them. (Also, knowing the characters' Will saves helps for when you want to roll a Save vs. Domination without the players knowing that they've been Dominated.)

Runolfr
2008-02-08, 04:30 PM
About nondetection and misdirection, they have to roll a caster level check or a save. That's a problem. My players have a tedency to metagame so if I'm actually going to surprise them with something then the detect undead simply has to see nothing, rather than having a roll and then it seeing nothing.

Well, you seem to have a simple administrative problem, in that case.

To avoid having a dice roll come up that might give away a secret like that, simply have each of your players roll a bunch of d20 rolls before you start playing. Whenever you need the results of a secret check, just use one of those pre-rolled checks as the result.

This works for Spot checks, Listen checks, caster-level checks, some saving throws, and an assortment of other checks that the players really shouldn't know they're making.

Edit: I also tend to call for d20 checks from players at random so that they don't know which ones matter and which ones don't.

AKA_Bait
2008-02-08, 04:43 PM
Well, you seem to have a simple administrative problem, in that case.

To avoid having a dice roll come up that might give away a secret like that, simply have each of your players roll a bunch of d20 rolls before you start playing. Whenever you need the results of a secret check, just use one of those pre-rolled checks as the result.

This works for Spot checks, Listen checks, caster-level checks, some saving throws, and an assortment of other checks that the players really shouldn't know they're making.

Edit: I also tend to call for d20 checks from players at random so that they don't know which ones matter and which ones don't.

It's not just about the rolling checks, although that's a concern. It's more that I'd rather it be foolproof. If there is a check or a save they might pass it. I want them to find out about my vampire (who is masquerading as the drunken and drugaddled younger son of a noble house) when the time is plot appropriate (i.e. toward the end of the campagin) and not when they first meet him by chance of a lucky roll.

Rutee
2008-02-08, 04:47 PM
You're asking for a luck proof mechanic? This is going to be entertaining.

NEO|Phyte
2008-02-08, 04:54 PM
Incidentally, are your players actively hunting for hidden undead, or are they simply in the habit of scanning everyone they meet?

AKA_Bait
2008-02-08, 04:56 PM
You're asking for a luck proof mechanic? This is going to be entertaining.

Mind Blank would do it, if it worked for Detect Undead. I was wondering if anyone knew of something similar that did.


Incidentally, are your players actively hunting for hidden undead, or are they simply in the habit of scanning everyone they meet?

A little of both but mostly the latter. There are several undead baddies in my campagin world (Silus the Rat Lich is one they tangled with earlier and escaped) but they are also pretty paranoid whenever I DM because I usually play the villians as pretty intelegent and frequently dishonest.

crimson77
2008-02-08, 05:36 PM
... There are several undead baddies in my campagin world (Silus the Rat Lich is one they tangled with earlier and escaped) but they are also pretty paranoid whenever I DM because I usually play the villians as pretty intelegent and frequently dishonest.

Have you thought about creating a "good" guy who you use to trick your players (by their metagaming tendencies) into thinking that he an evil undead creature trying to pass as a good character. You could have him with an ornate ring which you focus your description upon (so they think that it is of importance) and they scan him an nothing happens (or ask for a will save and if they pass say - you have a good idea that he is not undead but you are not sure) He then gets anxious (which anyone would after having some wizard cast a spell on him) and tries to leave or force the pcs to leave (you are acting like you are trying to keep him concealed but struggling with it a bit). The PCs finally attack and kill him (since he is only a 5th level commoner or noble) and get a ornate ring worth 500 gp. The PCs gods punish them/they tarnish their good name/the towns people force the pcs to leave/etc.

I did a similar thing to this with my old group. It tough them a strong lesson about metagaming and assuming things without evidence. Now they are never sure if someone is good, bad, or stupid - keeps them guessing.

Bag_of_Holding
2008-02-08, 06:04 PM
There's the Hat of Anonymity from MIC which gives continuous Nondetection effect. :smallsmile:

Hal
2008-02-08, 06:22 PM
Short of anything mechanical (which I will be no help with), I'd suggest you don't give your players a reason to be casting all kinds of detection spells on this fellow. Sometimes good storytelling goes much further towards making certain players ask the right questions (or don't).

Also, keep the guy out of situations where the players could be casting such spells. People don't take kindly to spell casting in their presence. They don't know if you're just looking at stuff or are preparing to set the entire town on fire.