Villain concepts, would like feedback.

[Zenos]

We're going to play an E6 game soon, and I have a pair or more villains I would like to hear your opinions on.

One is an ambitious nobleman, who hates the government in his country for what he sees as suppression of free will and incompetence. He has made pacts with demons, fey and other supernatural creatures (I'm putting him at straight warlock for that extra lesser invocation).
He has built an army, and trained them to have superior discipline, but also to be able to think freely, and even if he dies the soldiers will regroup and fight on under a new leader they choose themselves.
He is Chaotic Neutral leaning to Evil, I think, he is willing to kill any people who disagree with him, but is trying to overthrow the LE government in his country for the sake of freedom. I think I will let the players get involved by having them witness atrocities committed by his soldiers, like executing scholars or teachers.

The other one is the leader of a paladin order, but is not actualy a paladin. He will be a multiclass fighter/cleric, who doesn't actualy recieve spells from the god he worships, but from his own faith in Law and Punishment (his domains will be Law and either War or Strenght, can anyone point out a good domain for him?). He is ruthless in the face of even a minor evil or a petty crime, and will often have public executions (or cutting of a thief's hands). He will be LN, if only so the paladins can't just detect evil him.

Then I came up with a third, a cleric whos faith in that the gods are false gives him magiccal power. I haven't come up with much about him yet.

Please give constructive feedback.

[Zenos]

Another villain character I thought about:

An elven librarian (wizard), who is trying to awaken an army of golems and a gigantic construct the size of a small town, all for the sake of retro-engineering them and build more of them. I think I saw a wizard variant on the homebrew forums that would fit very well for him.

[Proven_Paradox]

Information on the players would be helpful here.


One is an ambitious nobleman, who hates the government in his country for what he sees as suppression of free will and incompetence. He has made pacts with demons, fey and other supernatural creatures (I'm putting him at straight warlock for that extra lesser invocation).
He has built an army, and trained them to have superior discipline, but also to be able to think freely, and even if he dies the soldiers will regroup and fight on under a new leader they choose themselves.
He is Chaotic Neutral leaning to Evil, I think, he is willing to kill any people who disagree with him, but is trying to overthrow the LE government in his country for the sake of freedom. I think I will let the players get involved by having them witness atrocities committed by his soldiers, like executing scholars or teachers.

This kind of thing can be very powerful if done well; he may be a bad guy who is doing terrible things, but his intentions are certainly something one can understand and perhaps even support.



The other one is the leader of a paladin order, but is not actualy a paladin. He will be a multiclass fighter/cleric, who doesn't actualy recieve spells from the god he worships, but from his own faith in Law and Punishment (his domains will be Law and either War or Strenght, can anyone point out a good domain for him?). He is ruthless in the face of even a minor evil or a petty crime, and will often have public executions (or cutting of a thief's hands). He will be LN, if only so the paladins can't just detect evil him.

I have a hard time believing the paladins wouldn't eventually get sick of this and continue to let him lead. Sure, one who does evil should be punished, but I think mutilating a thief would be an evil act, especially if it was a minor theft.


Then I came up with a third, a cleric whos faith in that the gods are false gives him magiccal power. I haven't come up with much about him yet.

Well... Someone can just Planeshift him to the celestial realms or something and prove him wrong. Atheism is impossible in DnD: the gods are concrete and obvious forces in everyday life for adventurers with a cleric in the party.


An elven librarian (wizard), who is trying to awaken an army of golems and a gigantic construct the size of a small town, all for the sake of retro-engineering them and build more of them. I think I saw a wizard variant on the homebrew forums that would fit very well for him.

Seems like a standard take over the world scheme, and there's nothing really wrong with that. Seems kind of bland without some more development though.

[Zenos]

Information on the players would be helpful here.



This kind of thing can be very powerful if done well; he may be a bad guy who is doing terrible things, but his intentions are certainly something one can understand and perhaps even support.



I have a hard time believing the paladins wouldn't eventually get sick of this and continue to let him lead. Sure, one who does evil should be punished, but I think mutilating a thief would be an evil act, especially if it was a minor theft.

As far as I remember, a thief having one hand cut of was a RL punishment in the Middle Ages. Although I must agree that it would be a strained relationship. Any ideas?

Well... Someone can just Planeshift him to the celestial realms or something and prove him wrong. Atheism is impossible in DnD: the gods are concrete and obvious forces in everyday life for adventurers with a cleric in the party.

Do you understand what E6 means? He believes that gods, demons and angels are simply some very weird and powerful extradimensional aliens anyways.

Seems like a standard take over the world scheme, and there's nothing really wrong with that. Seems kind of bland without some more development though.
He is not trying to take over the world actualy, he simply wants to re-find lost magic and recieve respect.


Comments in bold.

[BRC]

An anarchist nobleman? It's possible but dosn't seem that likely to me. Perhaps his family was punished in some way for speaking out against the government, giving him a good reason. That said, he sounds very ends-justify-the-means. I wouldn't make his army highly disciplined, as it dosn't go with everything else about him, highly loyal and effective definetally, but not neccesarily disciplined. I picture a force where low-level commanders are encouraged to show creativity in how they complete their orders, outfit their troops, ect. Also, the squads in such a force are likely encouraged to be close knit, relying on their loyalty to their friends to keep them fighting instead of being brainwashed into loyalty to the nobleman. They are likely guerrilla fighters who rely on hit-and-run as much as possible. He definetally has some standard front line troops, but they will exist mostly to occupy the enemy while his guerrilla squads take out crucial targets.
That said, he is kind of ends-justify-the-means, so while he gives his commanders vauge orders and trusts their judgement, he will not tolerate refusal or failure. Ironically, he will kill those who disagree with him because he feels they are opposing freedom.

The second guy, the "Paladin", youve got a good concept there, but be sure to stress that this guy has gone over the edge, the type of guy who kills a guy for playing a somewhat cruel practical joke, (nothing harmful) justifying that since he takes pleasure in the misfortune of others, he needed to be killed now before his evil grew.

The third makes no sense, Divine powers come from belief in somthing, I don't think you can disbelieve strongly enough. Unless the world is like discworld, where, if I can remember correctly, there is a god of atheism.

the wizard is good as a reoccuring villain, and it makes sense that his minions get tougher as time passes. He dosn't want to risk the originals in combat, so he retro-engineers golems to use as minons. At first they fight his earlier versions, when he hasn't really gotten the hang of making them. As time goes on, he perfects them more and more, until they are copies of the original.

[Zenos]

An anarchist nobleman? It's possible but dosn't seem that likely to me. Perhaps his family was punished in some way for speaking out against the government, giving him a good reason. That said, he sounds very ends-justify-the-means. I wouldn't make his army highly disciplined, as it dosn't go with everything else about him, highly loyal and effective definetally, but not neccesarily disciplined. I picture a force where low-level commanders are encouraged to show creativity in how they complete their orders, outfit their troops, ect. Also, the squads in such a force are likely encouraged to be close knit, relying on their loyalty to their friends to keep them fighting instead of being brainwashed into loyalty to the nobleman. They are likely guerrilla fighters who rely on hit-and-run as much as possible. He definetally has some standard front line troops, but they will exist mostly to occupy the enemy while his guerrilla squads take out crucial targets.
That said, he is kind of ends-justify-the-means, so while he gives his commanders vauge orders and trusts their judgement, he will not tolerate refusal or failure. Ironically, he will kill those who disagree with him because he feels they are opposing freedom.

What I meant by highly diciplined was that they were effective at cooperating, and worked well as a military fighting force.

The second guy, the "Paladin", youve got a good concept there, but be sure to stress that this guy has gone over the edge, the type of guy who kills a guy for playing a somewhat cruel practical joke, (nothing harmful) justifying that since he takes pleasure in the misfortune of others, he needed to be killed now before his evil grew.

I think I will let the PC's overhear a few paladins talking about imminent civil war, so they will have a short timeframe to kill him before a bloody civil war begins.

The third makes no sense, Divine powers come from belief in somthing, I don't think you can disbelieve strongly enough. Unless the world is like discworld, where, if I can remember correctly, there is a god of atheism.

Strange, I was thinking about exactly that in the beginning, a God based on opposing the divine.

the wizard is good as a reoccuring villain, and it makes sense that his minions get tougher as time passes. He dosn't want to risk the originals in combat, so he retro-engineers golems to use as minons. At first they fight his earlier versions, when he hasn't really gotten the hang of making them. As time goes on, he perfects them more and more, until they are copies of the original.

Comments in bold.

[BRC]

Ah, when I think Disciplined I think brainwashed to fight to the death, and to obey orders without thought.

As for the cleric, maybe his faith that the gods are false has caused some sort of fallen old god to give him powers, though he dosn't know it. The old god sees itself as truely divine, and all the other god's as false, so it technically agrees with the cleric. Though the old god is weakened, due to being sealed evil in a can or some such thing, it is only giving power to a single cleric, namely this guy.

[Zenos]

Ah, when I think Disciplined I think brainwashed to fight to the death, and to obey orders without thought.

As for the cleric, maybe his faith that the gods are false has caused some sort of fallen old god to give him powers, though he dosn't know it. The old god sees itself as truely divine, and all the other god's as false, so it technically agrees with the cleric. Though the old god is weakened, due to being sealed evil in a can or some such thing, it is only giving power to a single cleric, namely this guy.

That sounds like a good idea.

Hmmm, I guess the cleric of anti-divinity would wander around with a mob of followers wrecking churches, fanes and other places of religious significance, quite noticeable for the PC's.

I am thinking of making an artefact to unite all those people, and they are loosely cooperating to reforge it. I think I will call it the Wand of the Elders, which will grant one wish to a person touching it, in the spirit of the wish, and will only work once for each person. They don't have enough power individualy to take each of the fragments of the Wand, but if each of them gathers one or two shards they can converge to reforge it. If one of them dies and the shard goes away the elf will do some manipulating to get them into a trap...

[Zenos]

Hmmm, now I got an idea for a gnome banker as a villain. He is good at his job but has had a major stroke of bad luck. He's just trying to find a lot of money to pass on to his children. All 18 of them. And also he will be an old friend of the elf

[Learnedguy]

I for one has always loved affably evil villains. So you know, how the guy go around and giving people cookies or something.

[Meloku]

For the one that believes that the gods are false, consider having him be a member of the Athar (Planar Handbook) - but probably not with levels in the Defiant Class. Their entire spiel is that the gods are merely extremely powerful mortals, not actually divine (though they're pretty much completely incorrect, as has been mentioned earlier).

[Zenos]

For the one that believes that the gods are false, consider having him be a member of the Athar (Planar Handbook) - but probably not with levels in the Defiant Class. Their entire spiel is that the gods are merely extremely powerful mortals, not actually divine (though they're pretty much completely incorrect, as has been mentioned earlier).

Unfortunately I don't have this book, ah well.

[Swooper]

I am thinking of making an artefact to unite all those people, and they are loosely cooperating to reforge it. I think I will call it the Wand of the Elders...
Please. Don't call it that. If anyone of your players has read the last Harry Potter book, you'll have trouble keeping them IC. :smalltongue:

[Zenos]

Please. Don't call it that. If anyone of your players has read the last Harry Potter book, you'll have trouble keeping them IC. :smalltongue:

Ok, Wand of Daemonbone.

[Prometheus]

How about the third one is a cleric who follows a God who calls his/her followers to destroy the practitioners of other faiths?

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Dragon magazine had another take on Aathar in which they claimed the 'gods' were false and that they didn't really shape the universe...that there is afar more ancient and greater power than the gods...as such, they are at least partly correct...well...in most worlds at least. They believe in either an 'overgod' or a cosmic force that they can tap for power and as such, they gain all the powers of a divine cleric but their power comes straight from the 'source' of al divine power...not filtered through a god or it's underlings.

Many sources have hinted that this claim is indeed very correct...that there are 'overgods' or sources of power beyond the 'mere' gods known to the races of the DnD world...in the 2nd ed book of hell, it hinted that Asmodeus and the god of the Cuatul (sp?) were actually two of (if not THE two) beings that actually formed the universe...if anyone knows...they aren't saying...such rumors have been supported at random throughout other sources as well.
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For the noble...I would make him chaotic good and make sure to have his troops act in accordance with the tenants of good for the most part. HIs men kill soldiers of the LE empire...the basic troops they kill because they must, but the officers are killed for their crimes against the people, typically in painful ways, not too horrific...they aren't butchers, but in ways that let them and those who obey them know that if you folow their orders you will die a death as painful as the suffering they have caused.

One of the Dragonlance books was very interesting in how it delt with good people's warring with each other...during the dwarfgate wars the humans and hill dwarves came to attack the mountian dwarves. They wanted the to share their wealth and food cause they were stockpiling it while the rest of the world starved...they were denied and the M. dwarves fought them. The fun part was that they themselves were just as short of food and many would die from starvation...this way, people on both sides would die in battle rather than starve through the winter and the survivors might have a better chance. The 'resistance' could stage attacks against key places where the poor are in need...to prevent attacks, the empire would divert troops and supplies to fortify the area...the citizens would be pressed into the service or used for work...either way, they would have food and pay...can't have your workers starve...then they aren't good or anything and rebel.

[mabriss lethe]

I've been working on a cleric that comes very close to the edge of atheism...sort of.

He's part of a cult that, back in the dim and misty were the servants of an insane god that ruled the the plane of shadows. Eventually some of his worshipers grew tired of the constant scheming and near destruction of the world. They plotted against their own god and those still loyal to him. They learned to draw their power directly from the realm of shadow instead of him and destroyed him using the source of his own power.

(it's more complicated than that. In the beginning the gods, sorely wounded after a battle to push celestials and fiends both from the mortal realm, had to make a choice, to die or to bind their power into a physical manifestation. Each survivng god bound his power into a throne and in doing so became almost mortal. The fears of the living gods and the screams of the dying ones gave birth to the plane of shadows. It contained everything the gods were afraid of, including another god to rival them. If the realm itself was birthed from fear and death, He was the the collected nightmares of the gods incarnate.)

Now the cult guards the god's empty throne from usurpers who would seek to control the power it possesses. The other religions consider them apostates and heretics, hunting them down when they're discovered. No one realizes that the cult is one of humanity's greatest and most ruthless protectors.