Is the giant hinting towards...

[Cade Shadow]

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned. But I think Celia's pregnant.
Facts

Roy and Celia had their love night
Its been 3.5 months (if I remember correctly, pregnancies are usually identified by then)
In Celia's latest appearance, she says her mom bugs her about Celia's lack of children.

Is there any merit here?

[d'Bwobsling]

you do have a point, though if her mom knew she was pregnant she wouldn't be bugging her about it

[North]

Hmmmm..... I dont think so.

Would be interesting, kinda. But too much of a plot detractant I think.

[BRC]

This is DnD, where EVERYTHING is genetically compatable with everything else, so it's a possibility.

[Raider]

She probably would've said something by now.......

[David Argall]

too much of a plot detractant I think.

A plot is made up of detractants. Each detractant is one of the difficulties the hero must deal with.

[bluish_wolf]

In Celia's latest appearance, she says her mom bugs her about Celia's lack of children.

Is there any merit here?

Personally, I think it's disturbing that Celia's mother apparently wants her to have a child out of wedlock.

[SlightlyEvil]

I don't think a pregnancy plotline would fit the tone of the comic. I can't think of a way to make it funny, and straight drama just doesn't work here without comedy backing it up.

[Lawliet]

I don't think a pregnancy plotline would fit the tone of the comic. I can't think of a way to make it funny, and straight drama just doesn't work here without comedy backing it up.

Couldn't agree more.

But, if this relationship lasts, it's possible that this will happen after (if) Xykon is destroyed or something like that. But right now, i think the comic is going in a different direction.

[The Extinguisher]

You can't think of anything funny with pregnancy? I can think of dozens. The whole idea of Celia being pregnant is hillarious to begin with, what with the whole cross-species thing.

[Raging_Pacifist]

In Celia's latest appearance, she says her mom bugs her about Celia's lack of children.

Her mom asked why she didn't have children hinting she isn't pregnant if she is why would her mom bug her about that still?

[Raging_Pacifist]

This is DnD, where EVERYTHING is genetically compatable with everything else, so it's a possibility.

That's assinine. A camel can't mate with a halfling. Go read the BoEF.

[PirateMonk]

Its been 3.5 months (if I remember correctly, pregnancies are usually identified by then)

Aren't they also generally at least a little visible by then too, though?

[NikkTheTrick]

Well, there is a trend of things getting progressively worse for Roy.

Finding that your girlfriend is pregnant is one of the most horrible things for a guy, so it would be a good high water mark for "Roy getting screwed badly (no pun intended)" trend.

So, yes the theory does have merit.

[Raging_Pacifist]

Aren't they also generally at least a little visible by then too, though?

Yes they are.

[Chronos]

Eh, if he wanted to go for the dramatic pregnancy thing, it'd be Hilgya. Which is still certainly a possibility.

If Celia is pregnant, she doesn't know it yet. Because if she knew, her first reaction would be to (try to) tell Roy. Of course, Hilgya's first reaction would probably be to try to tell Durkon, too, but she might have a harder time getting ahold of him.

[Souju]

Eh, if he wanted to go for the dramatic pregnancy thing, it'd be Hilgya. Which is still certainly a possibility.

If Celia is pregnant, she doesn't know it yet. Because if she knew, her first reaction would be to (try to) tell Roy. Of course, Hilgya's first reaction would probably be to try to tell Durkon, too, but she might have a harder time getting ahold of him.

Hilgya seems the type to stray away from that approach. She's emotionally unbalanced and Durkon broke her heart. With a +3 mace.


Why would it take 3.5 months for an elemental to "show"? Let's address 2 theories here, under the (IMO far fetched) assumption that she's preggers:
1) How do we know her gestation cycle is the same as a human? She already has little to no knowledge of human anatomy that isn't in common with her species. For all we know it could take YEARS to show pregnancy, or she could even have already given birth. The latter wouldn't make much sense, however.
2) 2 words: Morning Sickness

[Corlis]

Yes they are.I'd say it depends. My sister in law is about 4.5 months pregnant and she doesn't really seem pregnant at all to me. Maybe a little bulge, if you look really hard, but baggy PJs would cover that right up.

That said, I doubt Celia's pregnant, as you'd have thought she'd have tried to contact Roy by now.

[Bag_of_Holding]

Would the baby have Celia's eyes? I think that'd be very pretty. Glowing blue, I mean.

[Zeitgeist]

Her mom asked why she didn't have children hinting she isn't pregnant if she is why would her mom bug her about that still?

It's foreshadowing. It doesn't actually tell you that something is happening (and may seem like an indication that nothing IS happening) but it puts the idea in the reader's mind. That is, if they're very perceptive to foreshadowing.

3.5 Months doesn't mean she will show. You couldn't visibly tell my wife was pregnant at 3.5 months. Not to mention, there have been plenty of cases of women not knowing they were pregnant until way late in the pregnancy. Not everybody gets sick. Some people just don't notice. Don't ask me how, but it happens.

That being said, there's no logical reason she can't be pregnant. I'm not saying she IS pregnant, but there are no facts that could eliminate the possibility.

Not to mention she's not human. The rules could be stretched even further.

So technically, she could be pregnant. The only problem is the only real support we have for the idea is the mild foreshadowing (in the form of a joke) about her not having kids yet. Which isn't enough to say conclusively, but it remains a possibility.

[TRM]

Personally, I think it's disturbing that Celia's mother apparently wants her to have a child out of wedlock.
I had assumed that her mother was hoping that she would find a nice man slyph to settle down with and have bucketloads of babies with.

[Jayngfet]

*opens MM*, *glances to drider*, *flips page to merfolk*, *turns to centaur* *goes over to satyr*, *stares at a picture of krusk*, *wonders about halflings*, *fires up firefox*,*looks up duckbunny*,*laughs*,*reopens book*, *finds owlbear*,*reads about griffins and hippogriffs*, *remembers tieflings and aasimar*, finds a picture of half dragons*,*asks hard to ansewer questions*

...i guess its not hampered by biology(*remembers own hobgoblin/orc/goblin hybrids*):smallamused:

somewhere out there some skitty and wailord are re-enacting lady and the tramp and I am content.

[Weiser_Cain]

That's assinine. A camel can't mate with a halfling. Go read the BoEF.

Look you...

[bluish_wolf]

That's assinine. A camel can't mate with a halfling. Go read the BoEF.

Considering they are owlbears, camellings aren't that far out of the realm of possibility.

[Green Bean]

Considering they are owlbears, camellings aren't that far out of the realm of possibility.

According to the Tome of Magic, neither are lion/starfish hybrids. :smalltongue:

[Weiser_Cain]

With magic anythings possible, that's sort of the point.

[SPoD]

I had assumed that her mother was hoping that she would find a nice man slyph to settle down with and have bucketloads of babies with.

Yeah, this is what I had imagined, too. The first step in giving her mother grandchildren is to get married, in all probability.

As far as Celia being pregnant, I find it unlikely. Celia strikes me as the sort of girl who wouldn't mess up her education and career by forgetting to get a "protection spell" in advance.

[Roderick_BR]

Roy and Celia had their love night
Its been 3.5 months (if I remember correctly, pregnancies are usually identified by then)
Maybe in 4th edition... *runs*

[bluish_wolf]

Yeah, this is what I had imagined, too. The first step in giving her mother grandchildren is to get married, in all probability.

As far as Celia being pregnant, I find it unlikely. Celia strikes me as the sort of girl who wouldn't mess up her education and career by forgetting to get a "protection spell" in advance.

Aren't rituals in fantasy worlds tend to be designed around increasing fertility, not the opposite? A spell that prevents pregnancy just doesn't strike me as something anyone would make.

[FujinAkari]

Aren't rituals in fantasy worlds tend to be designed around increasing fertility, not the opposite? A spell that prevents pregnancy just doesn't strike me as something anyone would make.

I strongly disagree.

Magic is created to do something that the caster wants. Unless you assume that no one ever wants to NOT get pregnant, claiming that no one would ever create a spell to prevent it is sort of foolish, no offense :)

Additionally, the BoEF includes spells to prevent pregnancy.

[Lunaya]

Aren't rituals in fantasy worlds tend to be designed around increasing fertility, not the opposite? A spell that prevents pregnancy just doesn't strike me as something anyone would make.
Actually, Eugene Greenhilt has indicated that Roy is the result of a protection spell failing.

As far as showing goes, my cousin's niece didn't even know she was pregnant until she went to the emergency room and was told that she was in labor. (My cousin and her husband adopted the baby two weeks later. ^^)

[bluish_wolf]

I forgot about that.

[Hectonkhyres]

You can't think of anything funny with pregnancy? I can think of dozens. The whole idea of Celia being pregnant is hillarious to begin with, what with the whole cross-species thing.
Their poor child, seeing how things seem to be working in OotS-land, would probably end up a male wizard (or possibly bard) with butterfly wings. Being teased constantly about being ABSOLUTELY FABULOUS.
...
Poor bastard. But thats why the gods invented magic missile. Or, in the case of the bard, hitting the guy next to you with a cello.

[Raging_Pacifist]

Considering they are owlbears, camellings aren't that far out of the realm of possibility.

Owlbears, duckbunnies, squarks and the such are created magically, we're talking about two creatures mating with no magical help. Yes I am aware that sylphs are magical.

Camelings would funny as hell though . Hey maybe if Belkar was desparate enough.....*Wow.* Bad thought there. Sorry.

[Raging_Pacifist]

Wow this thread is really getting weird.

[Green Bean]

Additionally, the BoEF includes spells to prevent pregnancy.

Hmm. Theoretically, you could get the same result with a casting of Prestidigitation, specifically the 'clean' function, as long as less than a one foot cube of 'material' is being generated each round.


Wow. That went to a very strange place.

[Solo]

Actually, Eugene Greenhilt has indicated that Roy is the result of a protection spell failing.

As far as showing goes, my cousin's niece didn't even know she was pregnant until she went to the emergency room and was told that she was in labor. (My cousin and her husband adopted the baby two weeks later. ^^)

How do you not notice something like that?


I mean, what kind of penalty to your spot check would you have to have....?

[bluish_wolf]

Hmm. Theoretically, you could get the same result with a casting of Prestidigitation, specifically the 'clean' function, as long as less than a one foot cube of 'material' is being generated each round.


Wow. That went to a very strange place.

Or you could use a lesser paradox to prevent the whole event from happening in the first place.

[bosssmiley]

This is DnD, where EVERYTHING is genetically compatable with everything else, so it's a possibility.

You do realise you've just opened the door into a vile world of Belkar/MitD slashfic there, right BRC? :smalleek:

[Serpentine]

Aren't rituals in fantasy worlds tend to be designed around increasing fertility, not the opposite? A spell that prevents pregnancy just doesn't strike me as something anyone would make.In the real world, there have been contraceptive charms and superstitions for about as long as there has been the institution of marriage.

we're talking about two creatures mating with no magical help. Yes I am aware that sylphs are magical.I see what you did there!
That is, you know, made your own argument null and void...

Personally, I think the OP is using pretty tenuous evidence, and I think that would be more of a "Where Are They Now?" scene, but I don't think it'd be impossible, in the plot or in the rules (certainly not the rules - AASIMAR, PACIFIST).

[Grey_Wolf_c]

How do you not notice something like that?

I mean, what kind of penalty to your spot check would you have to have....?

It happens more often than you imagine. In the first place, some women do not show it at all until very late. But in this case, there is also other circunstances. The OP doesn't give the details, but since the uncles of the pregnant person adopted the kid, the story is likely to involve early teenage pregnancy.

The classic story goes: the girl is a) underage and b) unmarried. The girl is young, and she failed to miss that her periods had stopped (or worse, she never had them to start with). And even if she did show, she likely had a massive amount of self-denial going on, both of the fact that she could get pregnant in the first place ("we only did it once" "you can't get pregnant in your first time" "my best friend said that if I took an aspirin it would protect me"* etc.) and even if she did show a little bit, the obssesion with being thin would make her hide it under clothes and even from herself (and if she wasn't thin to start with, a common thing in rich countries, she might not show at all). Adolescents export self denial like no-one else can, and with having to deal with "growths", new chemicals surging through their veins, zits, more growths, hair in funny places, new feelings, etc, who can blame them?

Adolescent pregnancies are a big problem (for example, it has gone out of hand in the UK). Badly handled, it destroys both the mother's and child's lives. As with many other things, prevention is the best method, but as a society we tend to be scared of sex, which means too many adolescents have to rely on rumours and half-truths and unhealthy doses of repression to guide them through the unfamiliar new territory.

I will not even try and guess the actual situation of the OP's cousin (I've got better manners than that), but anyone interested should really look into this topic, since it *is* a big deal in today's world.

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf

* These are all real examples of adolescent reasoning. I heard about a dozen others back when I was 12, all equally amusingly in a scary way.

[Miraqariftsky]

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned. But I think Celia's pregnant.
Facts

Roy and Celia had their love night
Its been 3.5 months (if I remember correctly, pregnancies are usually identified by then)
In Celia's latest appearance, she says her mom bugs her about Celia's lack of children.

Is there any merit here?

On the other hand, there was also the possibility that Roy'd performed a strategic retreat. <<<Substitute a W-word for retreat, please.

[Ancalagon]

I don't think a pregnancy plotline would fit the tone of the comic. I can't think of a way to make it funny, and straight drama just doesn't work here without comedy backing it up.

This may be a reason why you are the reader of this comic and not the author? ;) That plotline(?) could be as interesting as any other.

Roy's gf getting children would also be an interesting twist: Roy screamed as his father when he did not go on following Xykon when his wife got pregnant. Eugene said he now had a familiy to take care of. It is easy for Roy accuse Eugene of not-searching Xykon since he, well, is a single with no bounds (before he met Celia, there truely were NO bounds at all).

If Celia was pregnant, Roy would suddenly in the very same situation as his father was and he had to make the very same descision. Will it still be easy to say "of course I hunt down an epic sorcerer-lich"? Nicely parallel to Eugene's story!

This plot and situation would not be boring. Not at all!

[Caractacus]

This may be a reason why you are the reader of this comic and not the author? ;) That plotline(?) could be as interesting as any other.

Roy's gf getting children would also be an interesting twist: Roy screamed as his father when he did not go on following Xykon when his wife got pregnant. Eugene said he now had a familiy to take care of. It is easy for Roy accuse Eugene of not-searching Xykon since he, well, is a single with no bounds (before he met Celia, there truely were NO bounds at all).

If Celia was pregnant, Roy would suddenly in the very same situation as his father was and he had to make the very same descision. Will it still be easy to say "of course I hunt down an epic sorcerer-lich"? Nicely parallel to Eugene's story!

This plot and situation would not be boring. Not at all!

Now THAT is a good point.

Also, SlightlyEvil's idea that we don't have straightforward drama here is only mostly true - think about the scene with Roy's younger brother and what we know of him.

[Lunaya]

It happens more often than you imagine. In the first place, some women do not show it at all until very late. But in this case, there is also other circunstances. The OP doesn't give the details, but since the uncles of the pregnant person adopted the kid, the story is likely to involve early teenage pregnancy.

The classic story goes: the girl is a) underage and b) unmarried. The girl is young, and she failed to miss that her periods had stopped (or worse, she never had them to start with). And even if she did show, she likely had a massive amount of self-denial going on, both of the fact that she could get pregnant in the first place ("we only did it once" "you can't get pregnant in your first time" "my best friend said that if I took an aspirin it would protect me"* etc.) and even if she did show a little bit, the obssesion with being thin would make her hide it under clothes and even from herself (and if she wasn't thin to start with, a common thing in rich countries, she might not show at all). Adolescents export self denial like no-one else can, and with having to deal with "growths", new chemicals surging through their veins, zits, more growths, hair in funny places, new feelings, etc, who can blame them?

Adolescent pregnancies are a big problem (for example, it has gone out of hand in the UK). Badly handled, it destroys both the mother's and child's lives. As with many other things, prevention is the best method, but as a society we tend to be scared of sex, which means too many adolescents have to rely on rumours and half-truths and unhealthy doses of repression to guide them through the unfamiliar new territory.

I will not even try and guess the actual situation of the OP's cousin (I've got better manners than that), but anyone interested should really look into this topic, since it *is* a big deal in today's world.

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf

* These are all real examples of adolescent reasoning. I heard about a dozen others back when I was 12, all equally amusingly in a scary way.
You guessed it right. The girl was 18 and single and knew that her uncle and his wife had been planning to adopt a child. It all worked out. =P As far as her reasons for not realizing that she was pregnant, we just figured on the reasons that Wolf gave. I don't know her, so I couldn't really tell you.

Anywho, I had kind of wondered if the Giant was going to go there with the plotline. When I first saw Celia and her baggy pants, I did a double take.

[Demented]

Finding that your girlfriend is pregnant is one of the most horrible things for a guy, so it would be a good high water mark for "Roy getting screwed badly (no pun intended)" trend.

Let's not mention that your pregnant girlfriend is in the middle of a city ruled by undead and hobgoblins, while you're dead and unable to help her. (I don't recall Celia having access to teleportation magic, either. Cue mental breakdown on Roy's end.)


"my best friend said that if I took an aspirin it would protect me"

Tylenol™: If you can't find a reason to use it, we'll add another drug to the formula.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Hmmm... Looking at Celia's midsection, I'm wondering if she's beginning to "show." Just a tiny bit?

Meh... Stick figures, hard to tell.

But yes, as people have discussed above, some people look more pregnant than others. Some women (my wife) knew the morning after that something had "changed," while others say, "Well, I can't possibly be pregnant, I feel fine. And I'm not ready for children yet!"

But I do like the idea of Roy having to face his father's decision. Take down Xykon, or raise a family? In a world of abstractions, a baby is a pretty solid thing to have to deal with. Before we had kids, I looked forward to my next combat ship, my next Navy Adventure. After kids, I looked for shore duties, and where the best on-base housing could be found. Kids do make a difference!

Still, one of my follow on tours was support for a SEAL unit, so I did find myself out on the pointy end of the spear one final time. Celia seems to come from a wealthy family, so Roy might not have to quit adventuring just to get a steady job with a 401K and medical and dental benefits just yet.

[Kish]

The real evidence for Celia being pregnant is:
1) She had sex. It is not explicitly established that she and Roy used whatever kind of protection there is in the OotS-universe, though both of them are being remarkably stupid if they just ignored any possibility of pregnancy, and neither of them is normally stupid.
...And that's it. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it mystifies me that so many people seem to think it's really likely.

[Yeril]

This is DnD, where EVERYTHING is genetically compatable with everything else, so it's a possibility.

Wrong. (I think)*

Everything is geneticly compatable with humans. :smallamused:

err.. and dragons, celestials & fiends naturaly. :smallsmile:

As for Celia and Roy's hypothetical child? :smallconfused:

I'd rather see Durkon and Female-dwarf-who-I-forgot-her-name's Hypothetical child, Its been a while since then and as I have heard, Durkon doubtedly had a "dwarven defender" at the time. :smallbiggrin:

*Well, to my knowledge all of the half-races I've seen are mixed with humans.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

The real evidence for Celia being pregnant is:
1) She had sex. It is not explicitly established that she and Roy used whatever kind of protection there is in the OotS-universe, though both of them are being remarkably stupid if they just ignored any possibility of pregnancy, and neither of them is normally stupid.
...And that's it. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it mystifies me that so many people seem to think it's really likely.

Remember what they taught you in school:

"If you have sex, you will get pregnant. And die!"

:smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

[Holammer]

This is DnD, where EVERYTHING is genetically compatable with everything else, so it's a possibility.

Human: I'd hit it
Everyone else: ewwww!

Thus the half-camel came to be.

... are there half-halflings?

[Yeril]

Human: I'd hit it
Everyone else: ewwww!

Thus the half-camel came to be.

... are there half-halflings?

Hah, Reminds me of a joke I read somewhere.

Elf: Hail friend.
Human: Hey elf, you look like a girl.
Elf: ... Yes well to you humans alot of things must look like girls.
Human: What?
Elf: Half-orcs, Half-fiends, Half-trolls...
Human: okay okay.. shut up..
Dwarf: Half-ogres, Half-elves, Half-dragons..
Human: I said shut up!
Elf: ...
Dwarf: ...
Human: ...
Elf: Centaurs..

[Grey_Wolf_c]

... are there half-halflings?

Well, in Dark Sun (a campaign setting which didn't get enough books even though it was a fascinating place) there is at least one elfling (half-elf half-halfling). Since there are also half-elves (many of which were actually fertile, indicating close evolutionary relation to humans), half-halflings would not be impossible. The halfling tendencies to cannibalism meant they made for poor neighbours, though (I assume that they not only ate other halfligs but also all the other intelligent races).

Also, in Dark Sun the dwarves were hairless (never found out why) and half-dwarves (almost always infertile and thus called Muls) were human-sized dwarven-strong hairless brutes with a tendency to go berserk and the ability to survive almost anything.

And then there were the half-giants, but it is likely best if we don't go there (Harry Potter discussions on Hagrid were bad enough)

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf

[Ancalagon]

Remember what they taught you in school:

"If you have sex, you will get pregnant. And die!"

He, they did not... Thought about changing the country when you have kids on your own? Like... one without fanatic schools? ;)

Apart from that... I'd assume that a world full of magic and actual alchemy had some commonly known ways to prevent "things you do not want". Be it disease or children? Ok, stuff can fail (at the probability of plot). ;)

[Holammer]

Well, in Dark Sun (a campaign setting which didn't get enough books even though it was a fascinating place) there is at least one elfling (half-elf half-halfling). Since there are also half-elves (many of which were actually fertile, indicating close evolutionary relation to humans), half-halflings would not be impossible. The halfling tendencies to cannibalism meant they made for poor neighbours, though (I assume that they not only ate other halfligs but also all the other intelligent races).

Also, in Dark Sun the dwarves were hairless (never found out why) and half-dwarves (almost always infertile and thus called Muls) were human-sized dwarven-strong hairless brutes with a tendency to go berserk and the ability to survive almost anything.

And then there were the half-giants, but it is likely best if we don't go there (Harry Potter discussions on Hagrid were bad enough)

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf

Never played any actual dark sun campaigns but I did play the PC games. Bloody good games for its time, setting was cool and everyone and their dog were into psionics. I remember the hairless dwarves too, if someone can enlighten us why they did not sport beards, I'd love to hear about it (slightly off topic).

[Swordlol]

Hmmmm..... I dont think so.

Would be interesting, kinda. But too much of a plot detractant I think.

I concur. If she was pregnaunt, it would hinder the comic a tad too much.

[katyland]

Her mom asked why she didn't have children hinting she isn't pregnant if she is why would her mom bug her about that still?


If Celia is pregnant, she doesn't know it yet. Because if she knew, her first reaction would be to (try to) tell Roy. Of course, Hilgya's first reaction would probably be to try to tell Durkon, too, but she might have a harder time getting ahold of him.

If Celia didn't know, she wouldn't tell her Mom, or try to tell Roy. Maybe she knew and didn't want her Mom to know.

I've heard of several cases where women go into labor, not even knowing that they were pregnant until they had a baby! Not every woman knows or has symptoms. The same women that are pregnant unknowingly think that they are having "periods" every month, or maybe they have irregular cycles. Some women only have their periods like 4 times a year. It just depends. Plus we don't know about Celia's cycles or anything.

[Voyager]

Honestly, the only foreshadowing I can see in the "Mom pestering her to have kids" would be if the mom stormed in and raised the first prospective son-in-law her daughter had acquired yet, and then sat on them until they got married and forgot about this whole Xykon thing.

[R.O.A.]

It would be cool :smallcool:



Roy's gf getting children would also be an interesting twist: Roy screamed as his father when he did not go on following Xykon when his wife got pregnant. Eugene said he now had a familiy to take care of. It is easy for Roy accuse Eugene of not-searching Xykon since he, well, is a single with no bounds (before he met Celia, there truely were NO bounds at all).

If Celia was pregnant, Roy would suddenly in the very same situation as his father was and he had to make the very same descision. Will it still be easy to say "of course I hunt down an epic sorcerer-lich"? Nicely parallel to Eugene's story!

I would especially like Roy to find out while he's dead, because talking this ^ over with his father would be a funny situation.

[rickvoid]

I think there is too much comedy gold invested in Celia being pregnant for it not to be the case.

I don't think it would detract from the comic at all, and I really think it would add more depth to the plot, add another element to Roy's heroic journey, and give Eugene yet another thing to antagonize Roy about. And let's face it, Eugene can't get enough of those. :smallbiggrin:

My point is that a pregnant Celia adds depth, in the same way that the fact that she's about to find out he's dead and maybe find out that she can't leave will add depth. If you just want random kills, general sillyness, and off the wall plots, go to the arts and crafts section and read Avatar Battle Royal.

OotS is more than just a collection of jokes about D&D.

*No offence to the ABR crew, I love your stuff, but unless I'm reading one of the backstories like Remember (which is totally awesome, and everyone should read it) I'm not there for the plot.*

[krossbow]

Aren't rituals in fantasy worlds tend to be designed around increasing fertility, not the opposite? A spell that prevents pregnancy just doesn't strike me as something anyone would make.

Ptolus lists a root that prevents people from being in its alchemy/poisons section. Course Ptolus also has steam powered armor in its item section.

[Jefepato]

I assume the child of a human and a sylph would be a half-air elemental.

(Yes, there's a template for that.)

[David Argall]

Yeah, this is what I had imagined, too. The first step in giving her mother grandchildren is to get married, in all probability.

That is the preferred first step, but as many people have found out, it is an optional first step.

As far as Celia being pregnant, I find it unlikely. Celia strikes me as the sort of girl who wouldn't mess up her education and career by forgetting to get a "protection spell" in advance.

See Origens Roy resulted from the failure of a protection spell, and given Eugene was a distinctly high level caster, they were likely using one a lot stronger than Celia would have. And that is assuming she bothered.

[The Extinguisher]

Well, in Dark Sun (a campaign setting which didn't get enough books even though it was a fascinating place) there is at least one elfling (half-elf half-halfling). Since there are also half-elves (many of which were actually fertile, indicating close evolutionary relation to humans), half-halflings would not be impossible. The halfling tendencies to cannibalism meant they made for poor neighbours, though (I assume that they not only ate other halfligs but also all the other intelligent races).

Also, in Dark Sun the dwarves were hairless (never found out why) and half-dwarves (almost always infertile and thus called Muls) were human-sized dwarven-strong hairless brutes with a tendency to go berserk and the ability to survive almost anything.

And then there were the half-giants, but it is likely best if we don't go there (Harry Potter discussions on Hagrid were bad enough)

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf

Not to kill any catgirls (actually, if physics kills catgirls, what does biology kill?) but for them to be fertile at all, they'd need to be the same species. So it's best not to try and think of the sciencey explanations, and just say "it's magic" and move on.

I mean, half-fire elemental. Lets really not think about that in terms of science.

[Ancalagon]

I mean, half-fire elemental. Lets really not think about that in terms of science.

It's magic, who cares anyway? ;)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Not to kill any catgirls (actually, if physics kills catgirls, what does biology kill?) but for them to be fertile at all, they'd need to be the same species.

Not at all. Tiger and lions are not the same species, and they have viable offspring, with many females actually fertile themselves. Donkeys and horses produce mostly unfertile mules, but I think there is about a chance in 1000 females of getting a fertile mule. Not to mention ring species (google for details) which are disctintive series of species of birds in the same family where each species can mate and produce viable offspring with their neighbouring group in a huge circle... except right at the start, where two neighbours cannot (but are nonetheless connected in the other direction).

Species is a very fuzzy definition invented by human minds and our inescapable attempts to classify everything in neat little boxes. Biology, and specially evolution, doesn't work that way because before a species can become two it has to go through a period of divergence during which two groups of the old species could mate but don't, allowing them to evolve in different directions.

How all this applies to D&D would of course kill catgirls, but my post didn't actually refer to general D&D but to a very specific setting, Dark Sun, where biology was far more respected than usual (particularly the possibility of half races and the likelyhood of viable half breeds, as I explained).

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf

[SPoD]

Remember too that in Dark Sun, all humanoid species were specifically declared to have evolved from the same stock (the halflings). This is actually a key point in the setting's background, because the sorcerer Rajaat began his Cleansings as a means of eliminating all races that had evolved since the ancient Blue Age--that is, all humanoid races except the halflings. And it was the massive amounts of magic employed in the Cleansing that led to Athas' ecological devastation, as well as its lack of many traditional D&D species.

[Kai Maera]

Celia's got a little tummy developing. Compare to her last apearance and you'll see what I mean.

[Revanmal]

Celia's got a little tummy developing. Compare to her last apearance and you'll see what I mean.

I think that has more to do with how the Giant drew her pajamas.


... are there half-halflings?

If they're half-halfling, can we call them "quarterlings?"

Badum-tscchh.

[Green Bean]

Celia's got a little tummy developing. Compare to her last apearance and you'll see what I mean.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h87/osiris32/sylph.png

Honestly, I don't see it.

[Arkenputtyknife]

If they're half-halfling, can we call them "quarterlings?"
As in hanging, drawing, and quarterling?

[The Extinguisher]

As in hanging, drawing, and quarterling?

Ba-dum. Pssh.

[FujinAkari]

See Origens Roy resulted from the failure of a protection spell, and given Eugene was a distinctly high level caster, they were likely using one a lot stronger than Celia would have. And that is assuming she bothered.

Wait... Eugene? The master of Illusions? What the heck does he know about protection spells?

[Kish]

I think that has more to do with how the Giant drew her pajamas.
I think it has more to do with wanting her to be pregnant, really.

[FujinAkari]

I think it has more to do with wanting her to be pregnant, really.

The Giant or the Poster?

[Souju]

The Giant or the Poster?

the poster
people always come to a conclusion first and then make up whatever process they need in their mind to reach that conclusion

[David Argall]

Wait... Eugene? The master of Illusions? What the heck does he know about protection spells?

If he did not have them himself, he would know where to get one, and which was the most reliable one, certainly far more so than some student who may well be on a tight budget. So if Eugene and Sara could end up with a little bastard despite using protection, Roy and Celia definitely could when we don't even know if they used anything.

[Souju]

If he did not have them himself, he would know where to get one, and which was the most reliable one, certainly far more so than some student who may well be on a tight budget. So if Eugene and Sara could end up with a little bastard despite using protection, Roy and Celia definitely could when we don't even know if they used anything.

y'know, Roy's conception and birth could have be preordained by the gods, might trump any protection spell Eugene could cast.

[FujinAkari]

I think it is more likely that Roy's mom made her will save. It isn't unlikely that she really wanted a kid, and Eugene didn't. Though this is all speculation, of course.

[The Extinguisher]

If he did not have them himself, he would know where to get one, and which was the most reliable one, certainly far more so than some student who may well be on a tight budget. So if Eugene and Sara could end up with a little bastard despite using protection, Roy and Celia definitely could when we don't even know if they used anything.

Whether you spend 50 cents or 50 dollars on it, there's still the chance that it might break.

[Serpentine]

Not at all. Tiger and lions are not the same species, and they have viable offspring, with many females actually fertile themselves.Are you sure about this? :smallconfused: So far as I know, all ligers and tigons are infertile. 'Course, then there's the matter of whether or not their offspring could successfully breed, and whether in the wild they'd really survive as well as their parents, and whether in the wild the parents would actually breed, and...
Stopping there. I've already done an assignment on speciation, I don't need to do it again :smallsigh:

(If you really want all your fundamental beliefs about speciation shattered, look up polyploidy in plants and cicilids - an entire new species in the space of one generation, created in multiple distinct events :smalleek:)

[Kish]

The Giant or the Poster?
I think Celia "having a little tummy developing" is, and will continue to be, seen only by people on this board who really want her to be pregnant, while everyone who is indifferent or opposed to the idea will look and see the same character with the same size tummy in a different wardrobe.

[Tre of the Wood]

I think Celia "having a little tummy developing" is, and will continue to be, seen only by people on this board who really want her to be pregnant, while everyone who is indifferent or opposed to the idea will look and see the same character with the same size tummy in a different wardrobe.

Agreed. I really don't see her as pregnant, and really doubt it.

[TroyXavier]

If Celia were a main character, I could see the use of her being pregnant. There would be a lot of humor. However, with her being a rarely seen side character, I don't see as much use. The one thing I COULD see the Giant doing with it is that Celia gets pregnant and has the child off-screen, shows up and Roy has to make a choice like his father did. That's the one interesting thing I could see coming from a Celia pregnancy storyline. (On the other hand, a Hilgya storyline could be both interesting and give Durkon a needed boost)

[Shraik]

Would it be black like Roy or white like Celia. And what would it look like? One blue eye/one normal? What about wings, would it be born with one? Would it be born with two small wings? So many questions...

[Bubbles]

This is not proof of anything but interesting to see just the same. Roy's mother observes a lack of grandchildren too, here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0495.html) in the first panel. Sara does not nag Roy about it but she makes note of it.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Personally, I think it's disturbing that Celia's mother apparently wants her to have a child out of wedlock.
Chaotic wind spirits.

[RMS Oceanic]

The difference between Eugene and Roy is Roy knows about the Snarl, and what it can do. I know his instincts would be towards raising his child, but if he sits back and does nothing, its very soul is in peril from Xykon and Redcloak's scheme. Strip 293 shows that Roy is more than capable of rising above his own feelings and desires for the greater good, so I'm pretty sure Roy would continue seeking Xykon's destruction.

[Souju]

The difference between Eugene and Roy is Roy knows about the Snarl, and what it can do. I know his instincts would be towards raising his child, but if he sits back and does nothing, its very soul is in peril from Xykon and Redcloak's scheme. Strip 293 shows that Roy is more than capable of rising above his own feelings and desires for the greater good, so I'm pretty sure Roy would continue seeking Xykon's destruction.

and the choice would be kind of moot anyway since, afaik, Sylphs live a lot longer than humans.
of course that could be funny...
Celia: Vaarsuvius! Thank the gods I found you! ROY'S SICK!
Vaarsuvius: Really? What are his symptoms?
Celia: Well, his skin's getting all wrinkly, he's getting fatigued more easily, he complains of joint pain, his voice got deeper, and he keeps telling kids to get off the lawn!
Vaarsuvius: ...

[A. Smith]

Am I the only one disturbed by the amount of people who have BoEF?

[Woof]

Honestly, the fact that her mother bugs her about not having children points to me pretty clearly to the fact that she doesn't have any :P. And isn't pregnant either.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Are you sure about this? :smallconfused: So far as I know, all ligers and tigons are infertile.

Yes, I am very sure. For example, check the wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liger#Fertility) (not the best source, of course, but I have heard of this elsewhere, too). You may also want to check Haldane's rule (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haldane%27s_rule).

Essentially: female tigons and ligers are difficult to raise, like all half-breeds, but are fertile when mature (of course, they have to mate with lions or tigers since male ligers and tigons are all unfertile as far as I know).

Hope that helps

Grey Wolf

PD: I really like how easy this forum is when setting links and colours and so on...

[Courier]

Honestly, the fact that her mother bugs her about not having children points to me pretty clearly to the fact that she doesn't have any :P. And isn't pregnant either.

Well, it could be foreshadowing to a pregnancy that Celia doesn't know about yet. It's not like her mother would instantly know the minute she becomes pregnant. Also, it's a pretty random throw-away line, and those often mean more than you'd think.

[Woof]

It's not like her mother would instantly know the minute she becomes pregnant.

Not instantly, but it's been a while since Celie spent that night with Roy, so that'd hardly classify as a pregnancy that just happened, like, 20 mins ago.

And yes, sure, there's an off-chance that Celia hates her mother so much that she wouldn't tell her about a pregancy just to spite her... but honestly, to me it seems they have an entirely normal mum-daughter relationship. And seeing as your mother is usually pretty close to you, I'd assume she would have been one of the first people to be told by Celia.

:smallsigh: And please, let's not discuss the (from a human perspective) unlikely possibility that Celia herself might not be aware of it yet if she was pregnant. I really, really don't want to think about the fey menstrual cycle in too much detail. Let's just not go there.

[David Argall]

Honestly, I don't see it.
I do, tho I was surprised how small the difference was when I measured it.

However, the difference is within the range of artistic error, among other explanations, so I wouldn't go shopping for the baby shower just yet.



If Celia were a main character, I could see the use of her being pregnant. There would be a lot of humor. However, with her being a rarely seen side character, I don't see as much use.
I see this as the reverse. A female Roy, or probably Haley, getting knocked up could seriously derail the plot. But since Celia can be tossed to the sidelines and forgotten for long periods, jokes about pregnancy, babies, etc, can be pulled in when desired, and then mother and child can be forgotten about until it seems like a good time for a fresh batch.



for them to be fertile at all, they'd need to be the same species.
This was sort of a definitional thing, but the logic works the other way. If they are fertile, then they are the "same" species.
It is still a good general rule, but the exceptions are huge in number. Some species are different species only because they "frequent different singles bars". If they actually get together, they can get together just fine. Other cases just don't work out. [I'm told of a sea lion/seal cross whose chance of kids was pretty much zero. He was too small to interest female sea lions, but he was fatally too big for the female seals.] So we can't rule out a child on this basis.

Now our general rule in fantasy has always been 1 male of any species + 1 female of any species = 3. In fact many fantasy heros are only half-human. So the laws of reality, as usual, get told to sit down and shut up.

[TorJin]

The real evidence for Celia being pregnant is:
1) She had sex. It is not explicitly established that she and Roy used whatever kind of protection there is in the OotS-universe, though both of them are being remarkably stupid if they just ignored any possibility of pregnancy, and neither of them is normally stupid.
...And that's it. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it mystifies me that so many people seem to think it's really likely.

iirc...

The real evidence we had for Roy having another sibling was:

1) the flashback showing a baby behind Roy's mother's chair.

...and that was it. That one little bit of evidence was all that was needed to make Eric existing a reality. I see no reason to not assume that Celia is pregnant, because that is exactly something that the Giant would do.

[Healer Hobo]

Hah, Reminds me of a joke I read somewhere.

Elf: Hail friend.
Human: Hey elf, you look like a girl.
Elf: ... Yes well to you humans alot of things must look like girls.
Human: What?
Elf: Half-orcs, Half-fiends, Half-trolls...
Human: okay okay.. shut up..
Dwarf: Half-ogres, Half-elves, Half-dragons..
Human: I said shut up!
Elf: ...
Dwarf: ...
Human: ...
Elf: Centaurs..


:amused: :biggrin: :biggrin: That post is full of win. A cookie goes to you.

[Courier]

And yes, sure, there's an off-chance that Celia hates her mother so much that she wouldn't tell her about a pregancy just to spite her... but honestly, to me it seems they have an entirely normal mum-daughter relationship. And seeing as your mother is usually pretty close to you, I'd assume she would have been one of the first people to be told by Celia.

:smallsigh: And please, let's not discuss the (from a human perspective) unlikely possibility that Celia herself might not be aware of it yet if she was pregnant. I really, really don't want to think about the fey menstrual cycle in too much detail. Let's just not go there.

I never speculated about either of those things (their relationship or her menstrual cycle :smallconfused: - by the way, there are plenty of posts about women who did not know they were pregnant until they gave birth, let alone were only a few months in), I just pointed out that the situation wasn't as clear and obvious as you assumed.

[Kish]

...and that was it. That one little bit of evidence was all that was needed to make Eric existing a reality. I see no reason to not assume that Celia is pregnant, because that is exactly something that the Giant would do.
"No reason to not assume"--if you actually mean what that says, and it looks like you do, we evidently have radically different philosophies toward assumptions. I never need an active reason not to assume anything.

[Woof]

I never speculated about either of those things (their relationship or her menstrual cycle :smallconfused: - by the way, there are plenty of posts about women who did not know they were pregnant until they gave birth, let alone were only a few months in), I just pointed out that the situation wasn't as clear and obvious as you assumed.

It was a joke. And I really doubt the amount of the women who gave birth without ever knowing they were pregant could be described as "plenty" from the point of view of probability. "Not wanting to know" is a different matter :p.

And sure, Rich could theoretically do anything he likes to his characters, so who knows what might happen at some point in the future, but I really don't see any clue whatsoever that would possibly point towards Celia being pregnant at this point.

[Courier]

It was a joke.


Gotcha - sometimes it's difficult to tell who's being serious and who isn't, especially on these forums.

[Raging_Pacifist]

Gotcha - sometimes it's difficult to tell who's being serious and who isn't, especially on these forums.

Especially on the forums.

[Healer Hobo]

Especially on the forums.


Aye. But normally, I just assume these things are jokes. Something about the way they type. Anyway, back On topic, I actualy think debating it is pointless. If Giant wants to put something in, he'll just put something in. Sure, if there's a public outcry, he'll probably fix it(somehow fix seems the wrong word...) But otherwise, he knows most of the twists and turns the story shall take. For all we know, he could have thought it all out and the comic will end next strip. But most likely, any rumors will be dispelled next comic.

[Hugh]

I think Celia IS pregnant. I was gonna start a new post, but then I searched for it and see that someone beat me to the punch. I did not even take into account the line about her mom (although that certainly is good foreshadowing), instead I just looked at how the Giant drew her. If you look closely at Celia, you can see that she already has a (tiny) bulge. Maybe she always had it, but I do not think so.

[Helanna]

Yes. You see, those aren't pajamas she's wearing, they're maternity clothes. And even though she's acting cheerful, she's so heartbroken over Roy's death that she will go into premature labor. :smalltongue:

More seriously, I really hope that she is. Besides the fact that I think it would just be really fun, I just really want to see the look on Roy's face.

[Demented]

I had a dream that she was pregnant. With my baby!

Actually, I dreamt that my dreaming it was 'proof' that she was pregnant, and I should cite it on these very forums as evidence. That was several days ago, but seeing this thread pop up reminded me of it.

[Hectonkhyres]

Am I the only one disturbed by the amount of people who have BoEF?
Yes. After all, D&D exists purely as a means of escape for people with unfulfilling lives. Much like TV, videogames, and fiction novels.

There is no branch of the great tree of roleplaying geekery that does not hunger for the BoEF. Social outcast teenagers want it for obvious reasons. Detail freaks who probably should just start writing fantasy novels want it because if fills in one of the big gaping voids in the D&D universe. Your basic roleplayer goon is just happy to have a few more options other than five consecutive hours of punting goblins. And the wannabreakthings goons tend to just like the brothels just because, you know, they are brothels.

Of course the damned thing shouldn't be in constant use. Just there to be dug out in case something comes up.

[The Hop Goblin]

Firstly, I sincerely apologize of the following game-mechanics question is offensive to anyone.

Ahem... Would 'Protection' spells or 'Morning-After' Spells be considered Necromancy?

*Runs!*

P.S. BoEF? Explain please?

[Hectonkhyres]

Firstly, I sincerely apologize of the following game-mechanics question is offensive to anyone.

Ahem... Would 'Protection' spells or 'Morning-After' Spells be considered Necromancy?

*Runs!*

P.S. BoEF? Explain please?
Necromancy, evocation, or conjouration... depending on how it takes care of the cells in question. Necromancy would probably be the easiest way to handle it.

And BoEF refers to the Book of Erotic Fantasy. Handles a whole ton of stuff including reproduction... and other related issues.

[Ariko]

Hah, Reminds me of a joke I read somewhere.

Elf: Hail friend.
Human: Hey elf, you look like a girl.
Elf: ... Yes well to you humans alot of things must look like girls.
Human: What?
Elf: Half-orcs, Half-fiends, Half-trolls...
Human: okay okay.. shut up..
Dwarf: Half-ogres, Half-elves, Half-dragons..
Human: I said shut up!
Elf: ...
Dwarf: ...
Human: ...
Elf: Centaurs..

ya forgot half-dwarfs (muls). :biggrin:

..Ok, granted they are not core DnD.

[Raging_Pacifist]

Why do so many people want to see Celia pregmant?

[R.O.A.]

Because it would be interesting.

[Tobrian]

Personally, I think it's disturbing that Celia's mother apparently wants her to have a child out of wedlock.

{Scrubbed}

[FujinAkari]

{Scrubbed}


Inappropriate Topics
The following topics are always off-limits on these forums, no matter what (hence, Inappropriate Topics). Any posts including these topics will be edited, and any threads started to discuss these topics will be locked. Please note that, as specifically stated below, these topics remain off-limits even where they intersect with gaming or other activities discussed on these forums, and that putting an alert for “Adult” or “Mature” content on the thread does not allow circumvention of this rule.

* Real-world religions (including religious reactions to gaming)

Please be careful with posts like this... while it is a valid point, you go into FAR more detail than (I feel) is appropriate for this forum. Discussions of real-world belief systems is simply a bad topic for conversation, FYI :)

[Tobrian]

Please be careful with posts like this... while it is a valid point, you go into FAR more detail than (I feel) is appropriate for this forum. Discussions of real-world belief systems is simply a bad topic for conversation, FYI :)

{Scrubbed} *rolls eyes*

If anyone brought "real world" concerns into this topic, it was bluish_wolf, for insinuating that it would be somehow inappropriate if Celia, a fictional character, became pregnant out of wedlock. :smallannoyed:

Back to topic:
And no, I don't think Celia is pregnant. What good would a pregnancy storyline in the middle of this.... whole epic plot accomplish? Reduce Celia to a "mommy" character? Please no. You know what they say about TV series that add babies or children as protagonists... it's usually the point where it jumped the shark.

-------

edited because "because" and "became" are not the same

[Demented]

Why do so many people want to see Celia pregmant?

The look on Roy's face when he finds out.
Don't you want to see that?

[Mauve Shirt]

The look on Roy's face would probably be similar to the one on my avatar's face.
Which is similar to several Roy's faces we already have.
We don't need Celia pregnant.

[Raging_Pacifist]

The look on Roy's face would probably be similar to the one on my avatar's face.
Which is similar to several Roy's faces we already have.
We don't need Celia pregnant.

Especially not Celia.

[R.O.A.]

Please be careful with posts like this... while it is a valid point, you go into FAR more detail than (I feel) is appropriate for this forum. Discussions of real-world belief systems is simply a bad topic for conversation, FYI :)


{Scrubbed} Sheesh. *rolls eyes*

'scuse me for butting in, but you DID mention religion:



{Scrubbed}


This bit right here is, I believe, the issue. That'll teach you to say 'Sheesh' :smallwink:

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Grab some books about history of family and marriage. There's a brilliant if somewhat long and dry ethnological and sociopolitical-historical work called "Histoire de la familie" (1997) in 4 volumes, from the Ancient World (Rome, Greece etc) to the 20th century, and it's not restricted to Europe and the Western cultures but discusses China, Japan, India, Middle and South America, Africa and the Arab world, too. Basically, Mankind has come up with practically every variation of social structure you can think of to deal with procreation, rights of inheritance etc.

Added that book to the list. But if it is only in french, I'll have to pass on it. My french is too rusty for any kind of serious reading (basically, anything beyond Asterix comics, really).

That said, I am going to have to say that that last phrase is almost certainly an exageration. I used to think as much, and then I discovered Henlein. In The Moon is a Harsh Mistress he describes a 90/10 male/female society based around polymarriages, from the basic Troika (one female, two males) to more complex line marriages (female-male-female-male-female...). Some of those described I'm fairly certain have never been implemented by any culture on Earth.

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf

[Ancalagon]

Added that book to the list. But if it is only in french, I'll have to pass on it. My french is too rusty for any kind of serious reading (basically, anything beyond Asterix comics, really).

Especially for Asterix, a rusty fench will never get all the jokes and nice word plays. Hell, I occasionally even find a new joke I did not get unil now in my translationed ones (after some 20 years of reading Asterix). ;)

On Topic: The proposed story arc could be interesting (for reasons stated below in this thread, the main one is that Roy would suddenly be in the same situation than Eugene was when he gave up hunting Xykon; blabla, I could elaborate about how that would rock now after Roy's long speech to Xykon about "my responsibility" etc, but I won't do that now), yet I do not think we could deduct anything from the given info. Giant MAY be hinting towards something (and I think he does), but he also may not do it (or even plant a red herring for us).
But we cannot know. Not now.

But if Celia is not pregnant, I think she will be sometime later while the comic runs. Roy WILL have to deal with the (very interesting) question "take responsibility for child and wife or go on hunting an epic lich who is likely to kill him".

[Raging_Pacifist]

That would make father-son a bit hard.

[Tobrian]

{Scrubbed}

[Khanderas]

This is DnD, where EVERYTHING is genetically compatable with everything else, so it's a possibility.
So that's where minotaurs come from.

[The Hop Goblin]

So that's where minotaurs come from.

Moooooooo!

[Callista]

Personally, I think it's disturbing that Celia's mother apparently wants her to have a child out of wedlock.Aren't air elemental types chaotic? Cause if they are, it mightn't be as important as it is to your typical true neutral human....