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Chronos
2008-02-08, 09:46 PM
Suppose I want to make a high-level grappler. I'm really big, I've got a good BAB and Strength, I've got special abilities relating to grappling, you name it. Except for one thing: At high levels, almost everything is going to have access to Freedom of Movement in some form or another (if nothing else, in a ring). What options do I have for getting in a grapple, anyway? I'd be satisfied even if I could start a grapple, but the enemies could escape on their turn (they'd at least be using up actions), but ideally, of course, I'd like to keep a hold on them.

So far, the best I can come up with is to either Dispel Magic them beforehand, in hopes of deactivating a ring (but that would cost me an action), or to have an anti-magic field on me (but that would disable my own buffs). Is there any better option?

ZeroNumerous
2008-02-08, 09:50 PM
Ring of Counterspell with a stored Freedom of Movement?

Chrismith
2008-02-08, 10:02 PM
Ring of Counterspell with a stored Freedom of Movement?

Doesn't a Ring of Counterspell only work against spells cast on the wearer of the ring? I guess if you could force it on their finger or something....but that would probably require a grapple attempt. :smalltongue:

Roderick_BR
2008-02-08, 11:57 PM
Carry a weapon, like a hammer, and pick Improved Sunder. It'll take care of pesky rings.
Or just have someone in your group to cast dispels, or something. Your best bet. The MIC has some weapons that cast dispel on a hit, you could carry some.
And always have some tricks ready, like knowing how to trip well.
Other than that, most creatures will either not use magic itens at all, and/or not have access to uncommon spells like freedom of movement, or will usually have others effects/magic itens. Just be sure to identify the ones that are "warded" against your attacks, and adjust your tactics accordingly.

Belial_the_Leveler
2008-02-09, 03:45 AM
Antimagic Aura. It is an AMF that can be cast on another.

Alternatively, you could ask SB to polymorph you to something with extraordinary adhesive abilities.


Freedom of movement really only stops magic that restricts movement plus grapple and escape artist checks. If you find a way to immobilise someone without grapple checks, that's the best way.

Sir Giacomo
2008-02-09, 08:31 AM
Ah, freedom of movement, the grappler's bane...:smallsmile:

A first countertechnique would be to prevent the opponent from using FOM. This can be done by going first and succeding at a grapple before the spell is cast.
For those opponents who might have a stilled FOM prepared, use a silence spell before around you.
If you have more than one grapple attempt (in a full-round action, say, after having attacked in a suprise charge round and then won initiative), then you can try to pin and remove the ring in case you know the opponent can cast it from a ring. In that case, you could also try to steal/grab (sleight of hand-check or disarm check) said ring before grappling.

Once the spell is cast, though (or already up at higher levels with either spell or item since it is 10 min/lvl), you have only the following options:
- use AMF beforehand
- wait until buff is over (if you know what is going on by a successful spellcraft check; you may recognise the material component bound around the arm in case of the original creature and with detect magic notice moderate/strong abjuration magic on the opponent).
- Vs a ring of FOM, a targeted dispel is quite effective at suppressing the magic, since it only has caster level of 7. Plus, such rings normally are only available from level 15 or so (if following the DMG wbl recommendations for higher-level pcs to only get 1/4 of your wbl on a single item).
- even more effective vs a ring is simply removing it via sleight of hand or disarm/grabbing.
- cast mage's disjunction (difficult to get normally as a character focused on grappling). Lower level dispels have been already mentioned, but are not that reliable (in particular since the opponent on his turn could simply cast another FOM).
- somehow bluff (or with suggestion-like magic) that opponent into grappling you (note that the FOM only prevents a grapple ATTEMPT by someone else, and will only provide automatic successes for grapple ESCAPE attempts. FOM does not help vs one full round of your grapple checks once a grapple has started)

Hmmm- can't think of more right now.

- Giacomo

Swooper
2008-02-09, 08:54 AM
Pretend they're Sauron and cut their finger off.

TempusCCK
2008-02-09, 10:24 AM
I'm almost positive there was something in a splatbook that allowed grapplers to have a chance to counteract that... Lemme take a look at my books and get back to you.

Person_Man
2008-02-09, 02:00 PM
A high level Grappler should have retardly high unarmed damage. If someone has Freedom of Movement cast on them, you can just punch them to death.

Chronos
2008-02-09, 03:02 PM
If you have more than one grapple attempt (in a full-round action, say, after having attacked in a suprise charge round and then won initiative), then you can try to pin and remove the ring in case you know the opponent can cast it from a ring. In that case, you could also try to steal/grab (sleight of hand-check or disarm check) said ring before grappling.No, not a ring of spell storing with Freedom of Movement in it; a Ring of Freedom of Movement (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#freedomofMovement). It's a continual effect, so there's no chance of going before it's activated, and Freedom of Movement is an auto-success to resist a grapple in the first place, not just to get out of one, so I'd never have a chance to try to pull the ring off.

There's also the possibility that, even if the Freedom of Movement is from a spell, that it was cast before combat even started, since it's got a decently long duration (10 min/level). Again, that would mean that I can't go before it's cast, and removing it would be difficult (costing at least a Dispel Magic).


A high level Grappler should have retardly high unarmed damage. If someone has Freedom of Movement cast on them, you can just punch them to death.Well, yes, that's always an option. But the character this is for has Improved Grab, so the grapple attempts are free anyway, and I might as well get the most out of them.