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AslanCross
2008-02-10, 07:49 AM
A player of mine is currently playing an Aasimar paladin. Now his character's bloodline apparently freely mingled with outsiders of all stripes, so he is now stuck with both angelic and demonic blood mingling in his veins. Although the angelic blood is dominant, he has a hidden patch of fiendish skin hidden under all his armor.
He wanted this to have more bearing in-game. We were talking and he asked if he could temporarily turn into a tiefling if he failed to pray for strength in the morning. I told him it was a bad idea, since the change would be purely mechanical and would severely make him suck as a paladin (he loses the CHA bonus and gains a CHA penalty, and the ability gains won't really help his class at all).

So this is a rough draft of what we've come up with so far (the other players still have to agree)

1. He must pray every morning. If for any reason he fails to, he must make a will save or have his alternate personality take over.
2. His alternate personality is a CE barbarian(and/or warlock). Any acts this alter ego performs will not be counted against the paladin's code. However, the longer he stays in that form the more likely it will become permanent. If he loses consciousness in the CE form, the alter ego goes into remission and he wakes up normal.
3. He can willingly invoke this dark side, but if ever he does this he immediately falls as a paladin.

So, questions:
1. Is it worth it?
2. What would be a good starting DC for the will save? I plan to have it scale up so that he always has a chance of losing control.
3. Has anyone done something similar before?
4. General comments, criticism, etc.

I'd appreciate the help. Thanks. :smallbiggrin:

Threeshades
2008-02-10, 08:14 AM
The change to another class sounds interesting. Changing into a Paladin of slaughter might be easier, as its basically the same class, just with some abilities changed. Maybe with an optional rule that instead of charisma, he uses Intelligence in that form
But I'm doubting the balancedness of this whole class/race changing.

Maybe the willing change should be taken out. and if he changes to the CE form, then he loses his paladin powers (as if fallen) for the next 24 hours after changing back.

JeminiZero
2008-02-10, 09:23 AM
I would argue that when the evil side manifests, it shouldn't necessarily mean that he should that his stats suddenly switch to tiefling stats. The stat bonus is inborn, not because of his alignment. Just like not all Aesimars are good, and even those that are evil, still recieve the same stat boost. So switching to an evil paladin type while retaining the Aesimar bonus might still be plausible.

AslanCross
2008-02-10, 04:30 PM
Well, I did tell him tiefling stats would be a bad idea. What about the class switch, though?

squishycube
2008-02-10, 04:35 PM
I like the idea, but I would make the actions of the CE side count against the paladin. Not as severe as when he did them himself, but to a certain degree. A good way to handle this is that he is forced to repair the actions of his CE side, or he will fall.

AslanCross
2008-02-10, 05:50 PM
Hmm, that's a good idea. I'll make sure to add that to the list of stipulations.

I was also thinking that to make the threat of "slipping over to the dark side" much more real, is that he really does have to make the will save every day or lose control, and that praying only mitigates the will save by say, a +10 divine bonus. (So it doesn't stack with his Divine Grace ability.)

Serpent
2008-02-10, 09:44 PM
I'm not sure why the personality would simply switch between good and evil at all instead of simply making him neutral at all times. If the angelic blood is dominant, what's he fighting, and why's he fighting it?

The dark side thing is an interesting idea, but I guess I'm not sure why the dark side always has to win out. You could take this the opposite way and say that instead of turning evil if he doesn't pray every morning, he'll turn good if he doesn't eat a baby.

What I'm saying is that if the demon blood is recessive to the angelic blood, shouldn't he have to expend effort in order to bring it out as opposed to expending effort to keep it in?

And, as a matter of opinion, anything he does in his evil form should count against his paladin code -- after all, it's still him doing it, even if it isn't really "him."

VanBuren
2008-02-10, 09:52 PM
I'm not sure why the personality would simply switch between good and evil at all instead of simply making him neutral at all times. If the angelic blood is dominant, what's he fighting, and why's he fighting it?

The dark side thing is an interesting idea, but I guess I'm not sure why the dark side always has to win out. You could take this the opposite way and say that instead of turning evil if he doesn't pray every morning, he'll turn good if he doesn't eat a baby.

What I'm saying is that if the demon blood is recessive to the angelic blood, shouldn't he have to expend effort in order to bring it out as opposed to expending effort to keep it in?

And, as a matter of opinion, anything he does in his evil form should count against his paladin code -- after all, it's still him doing it, even if it isn't really "him."

I like this. It isn't just a good person fighting an inner demon. It's two halves, equally afraid that the other could usurp their dominance at any minute; The paladin afraid for the safety of others, the Other afraid for his own imprisonment.

AslanCross
2008-02-11, 07:19 AM
I see your point, but even if I waived alignments it simply doesn't mesh with the idea of a paladin. He has to stand for something. Neutrality isn't an option.

Furthermore, one might say that although his angelic blood may be physically dominant, spiritually it's a tug of war. After all, flesh and spirit are only a single unit when one is a full outsider.

Kioran
2008-02-11, 07:24 AM
Still, these are just Tieflings/Aasimars - not a Half Celestial. There is no way his evil side is strong enough for a total switchover. And IŽd simply homebrew a Tieflimar. I like the idea of a schizophrenic character, to be sure, but with a mere Planetouched, the Demonic/Angelic blood is simply to diluted for such heavy effects.

AslanCross
2008-02-11, 07:29 AM
Well, one could argue that a half-celestial is strong-blooded enough not to experience such effects at all.

Kioran
2008-02-11, 07:40 AM
Well, one could argue that a half-celestial is strong-blooded enough not to experience such effects at all.

By the same logic, Tiefling would be too weak to cause such upheaval, but whaever, go ahaed.

AslanCross
2008-02-11, 08:12 AM
Sorry if I sounded like I didn't give your suggestion a second though. The player's been talking about it for a while and the party seems fine with it. The paladin's been going through a lot since his would-be love interest got killed by the BBEG's right hand, and we feel that her gruesome death was a catalyst enough for this to start happening.

Kesnit
2008-02-11, 09:59 AM
If he loses control, can he switch back without falling unconscious? It seems like a major penalty to have him be "forced" to be and stay evil, then turn around and make him go to great lengths to make up for it. He could be in evil-mode for months and could do a lot of damage in that time.

NerfTW
2008-02-11, 10:13 AM
If he loses control, can he switch back without falling unconscious? It seems like a major penalty to have him be "forced" to be and stay evil, then turn around and make him go to great lengths to make up for it. He could be in evil-mode for months and could do a lot of damage in that time.

Maybe the daily praying should work both ways. No reason why all the dangers should only be to one form. Make it so that the evil form has to roll to maintain dominance after a certain length of time.

Telonius
2008-02-11, 10:19 AM
Some Will saves might be in order if that's the case.

puppyavenger
2008-02-11, 10:32 AM
May I suggest him useing the fioendish bloodline from the SRD?

AslanCross
2008-02-11, 09:33 PM
If he loses control, can he switch back without falling unconscious? It seems like a major penalty to have him be "forced" to be and stay evil, then turn around and make him go to great lengths to make up for it. He could be in evil-mode for months and could do a lot of damage in that time.

That's a good point. The two sides of his psyche are supposed to be more or less equal, anyway, so he should have a chance to go back spontaneously. So both personalities get will saves.


May I suggest him useing the fioendish bloodline from the SRD?

Well, he's already an Aasimar, so he has a +1 level adjustment. He plans on multiclassing to crusader as well, so bloodline levels would hamper his progress even more. Also, he's missed his first bloodline levels already. He's already ECL 8 right now.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-02-12, 01:04 AM
How about giving him a Minor Demon (CE angle) or Devil Bloodline from UA/SRD or giving him a Major Bloodline and Mixing up Celestial with one of the others?

His PC could end up becoming a CG variant Paladin of Freedom and getting an odd things like Smite Good 1/day, Protection from Good 1/Day, +1 NAC or more, +2 Bluff, +2 Demon Affinity, DR 5/Good at L20.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm