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Hectonkhyres
2008-02-10, 08:29 PM
I'm setting things up for my circle's next campaign... but unfortunately I have hit a brick wall on a couple points. Let me give you some background.

One of the nations in our homebrew setting was recently conquered by the rather kickass necropolitan dread necromancer Hannibal Gale. Well, now the last vestiges of dissent have been crushed and he has found that further conquest would bring him no joy and evil has never been an end to itself. So, there is nothing for him to do but pull the pieces together and build him a functional, half-undead civilization that will last him the next thousand years.

Geographically, his domain mostly lies withing a glacially-carved gash in a mountain range that ends in a deepwater harbor to the southeast. Other than a few roman-style roads he is using his troops to install, the place is rugged and rocky and cut into dozens of odd little vales. Human citystates and minor kingdoms neighbor it along the sea to the south, a single dwarf colony occupies a disconnected valley in the mountains to the north, and a mixed confederacy of goblins and ogers can be found in the wooded lands past the mountains to the northeast. The underground is mostly empty but is dotted by enclaves of psurlons, kobolds, grells, a few wandering tribes of goblins, and ruins of a long dead illithid metropolis. There are other powers across the sea, including a trading power of Neogi slavers. The big bad, which may be any of a couple things I am fiddling around with, comes from that continent.

Storyline wise, this nation isn't supposed to be either an enemy or an ally. The PCs may, however, find themselves wrapped up in its intrigues and affairs and eventually end up trading favors with Hannibal himself. He will also be instrumental in making neighboring powers nervous enough that they keep their armies on the city walls rather than hounding the players.

What I need, and for the life of me can't think of, is how to do this and still be original. I don't want this to be the stereotypical scary-guy-with-a-billion-skeletons. I need to come up with halfway imaginative sapient undead cohorts for the Hannibal and unusual ways to use undead troops... both in battle and in the more mundane aspects of running a country.

If anyone has a few ideas they could lend me for this campaign, I would be forever grateful.

Vexxation
2008-02-10, 08:55 PM
Well, if he's a *really* sick bastard, you could make his personal fortress an unliving mass of meshed undead, such that any attackers would be subject to random attacks by.. the floor.. and walls. And all that.

Also, give him a fascination with undead "laydeez" (wink wink) so that he can have a once-attractive right-hand zom-babe. Man, creepiness just writes itself.

As for in-battle uses of troops, there's always the idea of using Stone to Mud (or whatever) to bury some (read: five or six hundred) undead wherever you want, just under the surface, so they can pop up at a moments notice to attack whomever.

As for ruling the nation, I suppose the whole, "I'm gonna kill you and animate you and make you eat your family's flesh" thing would be a good motivator for most people. Maybe consider giving all undead the gift of speech, so that they can interact with the living, perhaps as a source of cheap slave-labor. Civil war, anyone? Continuing that idea, why not? Overly intelligent undead get uppity and plan revolution. Hannibal loses control. He needs help. He calls the PCs. Yippee!

And, of course, when better for an outside nation to strike than amidst a civil war?

BRC
2008-02-10, 08:56 PM
A ghost who serves as an invetstigator/agent for Hannible.
Make him, in every way possible, James bond.
Have Hannible actually be a preety good ruler, since he let's things more or less run themselves and can't really be influenced and exploited for personal gain. Everybody is afraid of him and his undead forces, but he dosn't neccisarilly cultivate this fear, and he dosn't use it to become a tyrant, so nobody really minds. Most people would be too afraid to oppose him, but he dosn't really do anything worth opposing, so it's okay. I imagine the following line being used to describe him, "He dabbles in dark magic and would order his legions to kill anybody who got in his way, on the other hand, all those skeletons made it safe to walk the streets at night, he finished the road to the next town, and we don't have to worry about his soliders forcing us to feed and house them.

Kraggi
2008-02-10, 09:01 PM
Ebony and ivory working together in perfect harmony! Undead are just dead folks. When people die, they become undead, simple as that. They work farms, till fields, et cetera. Those who pay more in life might get to be sentient undead. Those who don't just end up as whatever. Enemy soldiers end up as whatever. The living don't complain, as they live in relative luxury. It's the undead grunts that to the real labor. Regular folks are farm overseers, and are on the lower levels of a massive beaurocracy. The higher levels are made up of sentient undead, with our favorite necropolitan at the top. To keep everyone in line you have a nice massive army built mainly from the people he crushed to carve out this civilization. Yes/no?

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-02-10, 09:40 PM
The wonders you can work with undead...

martyboy74
2008-02-10, 09:40 PM
The non-sentient undead will make really good workers. They don't need sleep, they don't need food, they don't need air, and they will follow instructions exactly. You don't need to worry about them rebelling, and they're easy to make. If you make negative energy non-evil, Hannibal could even just be true neutral, more interested in protecting his nation than anything else. You could have some (non-portable) artifact that lets him actually control all these undead.

Citizen Jenkins
2008-02-10, 09:45 PM
I'm actually seeing a very split nation, one huge artistic center full of Hannibal and intelligent undead surrounded by essentially unkempt ruins and wilderness with zombies mining (or possibly even farming for exportation) with a few overseers in the countryside.

For a metropolis, I'm figuring that Hannibal essentially wants entertainment and something more fulfilling than just destruction. I would see his intelligent undead also seeking something like this. The road to power would come from court intrigue, bringing in new artists to please Hannibal or things to entertain him. I could even see a human district, where great artisans and architects are brought in the produce all the beautiful craftsmanship and undead aristocracy would want. Really, I'm seeing an undead Paris, or maybe Rome, filled with rich undead lords seeking the finest and financing art, gladitorial events, dances, etc in efforts to gain social, rather than military status. Just have fun putting an creepy undead flavor to it. Actually, I would do more of a Roman, especially Imperial Rome, type city. You have one unstopable dictator/king, and active and exciting class of nobles, and great advances in art.

Meanwhile, unintelligent undead in the countryside continue to produce the raw minerals and trading goods any empire needs. Roads would be well built but houses, wells, churches, all the basics a town needs would be completely unnecessary for zombies. The less intelligent/more bestial undead (like Wights) would manage this workforce and keep the roadways open. Beyond the basics of production and transportation, however, I can't see the undead putting much effeort into development, so I'd forsee broad expanses of dark forest where the lesser powers have carved out small kingdoms while staying out of the way of the great undead powerhouse. I can't see them starting fights with the undead, essentially since most dread necromancers are absolutely ruthless when crushing uprisings, but I could see small bands of orcs or surviving humans eking out an existence in these forests where the undead don't bother to go.

Hectonkhyres
2008-02-10, 10:10 PM
Also, give him a fascination with undead "laydeez" (wink wink) so that he can have a once-attractive right-hand zom-babe. Man, creepiness just writes itself.
You've sold me here. Though I have a feeling the old letch wouldn't limit his advances to just zombies. Other necropolitans, a female ghoul, I might even toss in a Spectral Lyrist and give Hannibal a pair of classic ghost-touch pants. He probably would also try putting his moves on the mortals.
...
The scary bit is that, with the ungodly charisma score he is going to be hauling around, he might well score even without intimidation. A dread necromancer is the most single attribute dependant class in the game so this bastard should practically shine in unholy smexyness. Despite being undead.

Yeah. Creepy.

As for in-battle uses of troops, there's always the idea of using Stone to Mud (or whatever) to bury some (read: five or six hundred) undead wherever you want, just under the surface, so they can pop up at a moments notice to attack whomever.
He would probably have to have better accomodations for the sake of any equipment. A thousand skeletons would be fine... but the thousand longbows with them would be ruined in little time at all. Perhaps weaponry and equipment could be stored in watertight coffins alongside the skeletons?

A ghost who serves as an invetstigator/agent for Hannible.
Make him, in every way possible, James bond.
That would kick ass. Though, if he is indeed James Bond, he would spend more time having wild incoporeal sex with Hannibals spectral lyrist consort. Which, storywise, is enough to sell the idea.

Somehow the game has slipped into being a macabre comedy. And its an improvement.

Have Hannible actually be a preety good ruler, since he let's things more or less run themselves and can't really be influenced and exploited for personal gain.
Basically necessary to allow the plot to exist at all. If he was anything else, he would be the big bad and the whole thing would degenerate into the stereotypical wading-through-skeletons campaign. Where would be the fun in that? :smallbiggrin:

Ebony and ivory working together in perfect harmony! Undead are just dead folks. When people die, they become undead, simple as that. They work farms, till fields, et cetera. Those who pay more in life might get to be sentient undead. Those who don't just end up as whatever. Enemy soldiers end up as whatever. The living don't complain, as they live in relative luxury. It's the undead grunts that to the real labor. Regular folks are farm overseers, and are on the lower levels of a massive beaurocracy. The higher levels are made up of sentient undead, with our favorite necropolitan at the top. To keep everyone in line you have a nice massive army built mainly from the people he crushed to carve out this civilization. Yes/no?
The living will be vastly outnumbered, but things will be evened up a little bit by the way most skeletons and other nonsapient undead will be either stuck on the borders, stockpiled underground for a rainy day, or working on numerous civil works projects miles away from anybody. I have my doubts that Hannibal would particularly care if the warmbloods are living in luxury or not. They are mostly just a convenient source of skilled labor. Work the winepresses, weave the silk, carve the stone altar to something unspeakable, paint the portrait of him in his good jacket. Sapient undead are too hard to make and keep... or just too proud to do anything so petty.

The non-sentient undead will make really good workers. They don't need sleep, they don't need food, they don't need air, and they will follow instructions exactly. You don't need to worry about them rebelling, and they're easy to make. If you make negative energy non-evil, Hannibal could even just be true neutral, more interested in protecting his nation than anything else. You could have some (non-portable) artifact that lets him actually control all these undead.
I agree with you on the undead being good workers... to a point. They can dredge a canal, build a road, work a quarry, salvage sunken ships from the bottom of the sea, wash your underwear. But they suck at anything that involves anything besides sheer brute labor. Tell a skeleton to make you a table and see what happens.

I agree with you on the point of the artifact, though the nation will probably have its own necromancer's guild to play with on top of everything else. And most nonsapient undead will be 'asleep' at any given time.

For a metropolis, I'm figuring that Hannibal essentially wants entertainment and something more fulfilling than just destruction. I would see his intelligent undead also seeking something like this. The road to power would come from court intrigue, bringing in new artists to please Hannibal or things to entertain him. I could even see a human district, where great artisans and architects are brought in the produce all the beautiful craftsmanship and undead aristocracy would want. Really, I'm seeing an undead Paris, or maybe Rome, filled with rich undead lords seeking the finest and financing art, gladitorial events, dances, etc in efforts to gain social, rather than military status. Just have fun putting an creepy undead flavor to it. Actually, I would do more of a Roman, especially Imperial Rome, type city. You have one unstopable dictator/king, and active and exciting class of nobles, and great advances in art.
That is a damn inspiring image. So now we have an undead city of decadence and revelry that will draw the nonliving from every corner of this world. There should be quite a demand for a place where certain beings can indulge in what their nature demands and generally while away eternity. Though Hannibal will probably have to put down a few anti-spawning rules on things like vampires and ghouls. And suddenly the man up top actually has to pay attention to staying on top.

Damn. As much as this place would make a Servant of Pelor crawl up his own ass, I am starting to like this place. You guys have been a lifesaver.

Any other interesting things you thing I should throw in there? A bridge made out of living walls? Skeletons being partially disassembled and used as factory machinery? A stagecoach pulled by four skeletal horses, all of which are treated with continual flame?

Kraggi
2008-02-10, 11:09 PM
I wanted a happy society, wasn't thinking about whether he would dig it. :smallwink: Sorry

Hectonkhyres
2008-02-11, 12:20 AM
I wanted a happy society, wasn't thinking about whether he would dig it. :smallwink: Sorry
Hey, don't sweat it. I asked for ideas and you guys carried through.
I'm the begger here.

mabriss lethe
2008-02-11, 02:54 AM
Wights or something similar would be the real backbone of the military. LE, Intellegent,competent in battle, able to create an army at the drop of a hat.
A powerful wight with levels of fighter or cleric would make a great general. the right-hand man to smexy mcnecropants. As far as I remember, there is no limit to the number of spawn a wight can control (well, there's nothing in the SRD and nothing in Libris Mortis as far as I know.)

Heck, I wrote up some stuff a while back, feel free to snag what you like. Some of it won't mesh, (since this was a behind-the-scenes sort of undeadocracy) It's behind the cut.

1. Intellegent undead generally keep a low profile. There are living representatives that form a figurehead government, but the real decisions happen behind the scenes. The creation of mindless undead is limited to emergencies (see burial customs) and to areas where the living public don't go. (they make tireless miners and take care of a host of other menial, behind the scenes jobs.)

2. Burial customs and Religion. There are state maintained graveyards in every province. They're located in militarily strategic locations and tended by wizards and clerics capable of mobilizing the corpses in a moment's notice. To aid in keeping their human sheep docile, The undead have subtly promoted ancestor worship. It's commonly believed that your forebearers will protect you from danger should the need arise.

3.Control of the Undead population. Materials associated with necromantic magic require a licsence to be granted, and are usually only granted to those already in the in-crowd.(undead or their living pawns) Punishment for a living lawbreaker is undead slavery, preferably intellegent. They don't want that sort of magical potential to go to waste after all. Undead lawbreakers are rare, but special punishments can be metted out to them.

The undead king (wight) has a good number of spawn under his command, they're his personal law enforcement and the only entities he really trusts. All other intellegent undead in his kingdom must submit to a binding spell (in this case a variant of Bestow Curse.) The rules of the curse are pretty simple. As long as you follow a set code of behavior the curse remains latent, manifesting only as a visible rune on the creature's body.(code is written by the king himself and subject to his and only his amendment) If the undead breaks the code, then the curse becomes active, bestowing an appropriate penalty as the rune flares with unholy green flames. The curse remains active and visible until the offender seeks out the king or one of his spawn for forgiveness. They set a task for the offender and upon its completion forgiveness is granted and the curse goes dormant. The severity of the transgression dictates the difficulty of the task. Those who are discovered of breaking the curse upon themselves are destroyed without question. Anyone who inadvertantly has his curse lifted must surrender themselves to the authorities as soon as possible to restore it.

The code of conduct is pretty simple and easy to follow. basic themes are keeping a low profile from the living, limiting the number of spawn undead can have. Types of forbidden behavior (treason, etc) and not being an undead jerk.

Living criminals are often turned to mindless or enslaved undead to work off their debt to society. Only the most dangerous among the living are turned into mindless undead, others become some other form easily controlled creature (usually wight) under the watchful eye of the undead that spawned it. (note that criminals who become intellegent undead are always raised as spawn under the control another undead.)

The_Werebear
2008-02-11, 03:36 AM
I think the best way to look at what the unintelligent undead are doing is, "what would a robot be assigned to." They would plow the fields, work in assembly line style productions, and march as muscle for military or police patrols. To steer them, you have humans and lesser intelligent undead (necropolitans, vampire spawn, ghouls, ghasts, and wights). They do all the work that requires some limited creativity, ability to adapt to new situations, and the ability to think in general. As you said before, the upper class does as little as possible. The economy would largely be service based for the living, and the population is probably dropping rapidly. The culture would be influenced with fun teen imitation styles being to paint your face with lots of eyeshadow and wearing black clothing.

One cool tradition- Everyone's body is put to use once they are dead. As part of your will, you leave a petition for raising as sentient undead, which are reviewed, and granted or denied based on the use of your skills, your personality, and the influentialness of your family. A lot of the culture would be influenced by this desire to be "Promoted" to the ranks of undeath, with fun teen imitation styles being to paint your face white with lots of eyeshadow and wearing black clothing.

The Clergy would have either a lot of power, or absolutely none. People with the ability to control the undead are those that you want on your side when you are a rotting corpse yourself. The Clergy would either be very strictly controlled, or would be the best way to advance in society and wield a lot of power over the undead. Maybe both. They probably would be strictly needed anyway for the production and running of so many mindless dead.

The army can move a lot faster than other armies, because they don't need rest or a supply train. Combine this with the training process being much shorter, you could have enough troops to garrison the entire border and still have a fair force in the center to march to emergencies and hotspots.

Talic
2008-02-11, 03:55 AM
1st, one man can't be everywhere.

Have the undead controllable by anyone with a specific amulet. The amulet only functions for the Lawful Evil alignment, and allows the wearer of a specific crown (read: the leader's) to scry at any time. They control a number of HD equal to the wearer's HD*4 (as animate dead), and can be activated 1/day to cast animate dead (CL 7).

Now, these amulets can be passed out to lieutenants, who can direct the undead. Step 1 in the totalitarian regime: Order. Ruthless, paranoid order.

Step 2. Keep the living folk happy. Most menial tasks are performed by undead work gangs. Most living folk live in relative comfort.

Step 3. Make people realize the consequence of treason. Minor crimes get moderate punishments. All other crimes get major punishments. Treason, murder, and other heinous crimes, those get you killed and animated into the work gang.

Step 4. The Cadre. Especially loyal servants are raised as intelligent undead on death. Focus on Vampires, though elite mercenaries may be made into shadows, ghasts, or ghouls. One higher up should be a banshee.

Step 5. Checks and balances. Your king. Yeah, he has a permanent Death Ward on him.

lord_khaine
2008-02-11, 04:44 AM
in a campaign so centered around the undead i think you should make some sort of changes to the normal spawning rules, so a group of wights cant turn a oppposing army into a new army of loyal wights in a couple of minuttes.

endoperez
2008-02-11, 05:21 AM
Well, there's also the fact that the nation is a culture. The undead would be undead of that culture, after a while. Dominions 3 the computer game has lots of nice ideas, like a legion of death with actual legionnaires, lorica segmentata and towershields and shortswords and, if they can use them, javelins.

Or you could go all egyptian and have undead replace most of the slave/peasant workforce. When needed on the farms, they work there; when not, they construct huge "public service" buildings, march on the riverbed carrying immense statues under water, etc etc. Furthermore, there're a lot of mummified kings, priests, mages and warriors to call back on active duty. If a common tomb houses a noble and all the warriors who died under his rule, his most important servants etc, and there are hundreds of noble families with ancient histories, and "ancient" in this case is several thousand years... Also, if the reanimations went in reverse order, starting from the young... I am Shemesh, your brother's great-grandson, Tomb King of our family. Arise, my warriors! Arise, Niklatu, Hero of the City! Erekh, my great-uncle, the Tomb Chariots will be under your command! etc etc. Lizardmen egyptians could have had living slaves, brutish half-civilized carnivorous lizards, you know, trident and bite and crappy rusty armor; or sleek domesticated running lizard formed like velociraptors pulling the chariots, with or without claws depending on what you want.

If the nation was all hippies, you could go either plant-based undead, or just reanimate dead animals. Skeletal elephants, bears, boars, dogs, moose, whatever. Also, skeletal birds won't be able to fly, but that doesn't mean people wouldn't try, and there're going to be some low-level hopping pigeons of not-so-likely doom for your low-level adventures. Besides, there're animals for EVERYTHING: Oh no, the ghoulish molerats burrowed through the floor, and the skeletal rat swarm squirmed/ate its way through the rear door and they ate everyone downstairs. What's that noise? Oh no, zombie monkeys on the walls!

Also, if people die, their weapons and corpses stay in the battlefield and can be reused. There will be lots of "foreign recruits" if the nation goes to war with any of its neighbours. You know, like Rome having some Lizard Auxiliaires, except that these are the Troll Zombie Corps and 25th Banefire Elves.

If the nation has non-humans, use them. Longdead lizardmen have a nasty bite, longdead winged people just have useless wings, longdead giants are still gigantic. Dwarves might start first reinforcing, then reinventing the dead (blades instead of forearms, and every now and then a barrel of explosives would be inserted into the Iron Corpse to keep the invaders guessing.

Fuzzy_Juan
2008-02-11, 05:29 AM
is everyone truely dead? IE...they need no sustinence?

If so, keep that in mind...living creatures are a pest, they loath and fear undead...to keep them out, one must have a buffer zone of dead land such that no living thing can survive off what they find, nor can they seek shelter or build siege engines with what they find.

In the interior of the undead land one may nurse certian trees or wildlife for whatever means, but they should be relatively small. The majority of the land should be wasteland, earth salted, waters poisoned...only disease and stone/metal. Sparse wood.

What humans are kept for food (vamps need to eat) or other services would be tended by magic...create food/drink.

The barren land would be devoid of any use for living beings, and no army could sustain itself in such an inhospitable region...they wouldn't be able to get enough water without some serious magical assistance. The undead 'kingdom' would of course...slowly expand...

Fri
2008-02-11, 05:48 AM
Believe it or not, I made a similar country for a setting back then.

I guess we caught the same cosmic waves. (I have this belief that ideas come down to earth as cosmic waves. Some people can caught the same wave).

In my setting, basically it's their culture. The country is an old, closed, country. But not necessarily evil, just regular closed country, like old china or japan. Their culture revolved around undead, so they have dark gloomy cities and buildings (so sunlight won't burn the undead). The undead mainly used as working labor and army force. Basically a bit like everything everyone said here. Though, there're some really interesting new ideas here.

Lady Tialait
2008-02-11, 07:33 AM
.....I can see a group of undead marching the streets with signs and yelling "Wight Power!".....then burning pentigrams on the livings lawns....

I'm so bad...

Learnedguy
2008-02-11, 07:38 AM
Take a look into how Eberron handles its undead armies, and what kinds of stats they got. There's also some pretty useful PRC's there.

Furthermore, ask yourself:

"What could a zombie/skeleton do?"

Zombies and skeletons are very cheap labor, and having a gang around to do all the simple things will mean economical and cultural growth, as people get time to do other stuff. Take a look at the Roman empire (and Greece before that) and their slavery for instance.

And the last thing to do is to work the living around the dead. If everything dead does all the hard work, what will the living do to earn money instead? Will they become caretakers? Politicians? So on. Personally I'd expect an increase in the service and luxury business.

That was some basic stuff. Here's the sweet stuff:

The undead world order means change. And where there's change, there's people who adapt. A new powerful class of people will arise, the ones who understood to use to undead to their own gain. It might be because they didn't have to pay any wages, and their business therefore skyrocketed, or maybe it was because they got their hands on zombies and now have a successful rental business. Either way, you now got a group of people who got very rich, very fast. And when you got that much money, what do you do? Yeah, you spend it on power. Political, ideological and economical power is what these people will want. Who are they?

As a result, there will also be people among the former upper classes who where too narrowminded, and now see their fortunes dwindle to nothing as times went on without them. There's a clash of interest between the newly rich and the old rich. Put your players in between. What will happen?

Most importantly though, is the very big group of unemployed that would gather. Farmers, dockworkers and so on. Blue collar society that lost their place when those damn zombies took their jobs. A source of rebellion?

Furthermore, you now also got nice ethical, logical and moral dilemmas that your players might touch upon. Is it the undead society a good thing?

And oh yeah, almost forgot. Expect a shift of values among different people. How will the churches react? The people on the street? The people above the streets?
I think we'll see a fair deal of discrimination at a streetlevel against the undead and people associated with the undead. If one of your PC's dabble with necromancy, he might get beat up by thugs for instance.

Also, consider adding strange cultural quirks. Slang, sayings, metaphors, new forms of entertainment*, etc.

*necrophilia:smallyuk: ?

Fuzzy_Juan
2008-02-11, 08:09 AM
there is another take...a neutral city who's inhabitants choose to channel negative energy/rebuke command undead. A city in which the dead are revered in a way. To become undead when you die is to enter into eternal service to the state. Your soul gos on, but your earthly shell remains to do good for the state.

In return for their willing service upon death, the populace lives a life of luxury where the only 'labor' is luxury service and craftmanship...where people devote themselves to science/magic and the arts. farming, building, mining...all done by dead. Forman are clerics or lichs/vamps...slightly more skilled labor but still meanial are wights...any ghosts are messengers or scouts.

The army consists of generations of dead lying in state ready to rise at the word of someone.

In the undead nation, undead are treated with respect...they are after all, your family and neighbors...

the strongest of the dead rise to become intelligent undead who even may retain their class abilities...

Perhaps they are neutral or Neutral evil...a society dedicated to Vecna...maybe WeeJas...

Storm Bringer
2008-02-11, 08:11 AM
thoughts on how to bring the PC's into this nation:

you said he's no longer seeking to conquer any more of the world. You also said that their are numerous small city states beyound his borders and a goblinoid nation to it's northeast. Now, if he intends to settle down and improve his relm, one of the first things he needs to do is convice the 'good guys' not to band up and attack him.

.
Possible methods of doing this include defeating a major goblin attack, offering to give excess food to the humans during a famine, providing access to a rare good that the humans can't get form other scorces (a plant that grows upvalley, for instance), and so on.

Another idea is to have a classically evil undead turn up in Necrostan. A vampire and courtiers, a Lich, something with plans for the world.

have Gale promtly squash said bad guy. hard. possibley have the PC's be working the same case, and turn up to find Gale helping them out.

In short, have Gale make overt efforts to be freindly to the city states on his border.

Oh, and have him Pwn any attempts at an attack. after the first few times, the city states will be more willing to listen. Speak softy, and carry a big stick.:smallbiggrin:

I particulary nasty trick pulled off in some warhammer games in thier Undead land was to bury unneed skellies at streagic points around the nation. Then, when threatened, the nations leader could quickly summon a army at the point needed.

At least once, they waited until the attackers were over the burial site before summoning the skellies. the moral effects of the gound erupting in armed death was considerable, to say the least.

Shademan
2008-02-11, 08:15 AM
make haniball a quite allright fella'.
he isnt psycho or VERY evil... evil, yes. but not VERY evil!
after all, he build schools roads and the general life quality of the poor rises.
this makes the other kingdoms EVEN MORE NERVOUS!!!maybe you should take it as far as turning Haniball into a lovable character in the end. like Santa!
now thats gotta confuse the paladins.

Mal666
2008-02-11, 09:12 AM
you could give your lord a slay-mate, nothings creepier than a small zomby child with a doll peeping at you through a half-open door when you try and talk to him.

standing army-wise, if he has a handfull of Drowned Dead (presumable drowned in a river at the bottom of the valey) then his mini-empire is nearly unassailable, invaders would suffocate long before the drowned were hacked appart.
Law enforcement wise - its not unreasonable for a powerful undead or necromancer to strikeup bargains with other creatures -like an aboleth. aboleth keeps a telepathic eye on the populace, and the lord feeds it a steady stream of slaves.

creepness wise, you could make him keep a "very" close eye on other people, especially the miserable ones... not actually doing anything to them, but just enjoying watching their slow decline into depression and eventually suicide...

tsuuga
2008-02-11, 09:12 AM
Oh, how I like this idea.

I really like the idea of a bridge assembled out of or supported by skeletons, especially on borders. It's a step better than a drawbridge. Bam, your bridge turned into an infantry platoon.

I imagine that the living would be... farmed, almost. Some would be raised as artisans (you'll get sick of the great masters eventually if they keep working forever, gotta have new blood), and another class would be treated as livestock. Sure, vampires don't have to kill their prey, but a lot of undead want to eat intestines/brains/eyeballs/whatever.

I would suggest the nation have an industry which requires undead to work in a highly caustic environment; skeleton workers dissolve in a few weeks (preventing Infinite Army Buildup). Maybe tanning, mining something in a mine flooded with a caustic chemical, metalworking.

Falconer
2008-02-11, 10:36 AM
Some of my ideas:

How it works out for humans...

I imagine the living humans at this point would be outnumbered, but not by much. They're still numerous, but there are still slightly more undead. Have the major cities reflect this, with most of the 'population' being undead creatures but there being a large human quarter. Smaller towns and villages would be mostly human but with the occaisional ghoul or something unliving alongside. Now that most of the brute labor is being done for them by chain gangs of zombies, life will be that much easier for them. They'll probably then come to form a middle class, actually, with one or two noble families left over from before. Other than that, it'll be things like merchants, artisans, overseers, etc. Work that the zombie grunts can't do, but most intelligent undead refuse to stoop to. I also imagine the population of living folks with the vampire bloodline will skyrocket.

Crime and Punishment

Human criminals are completely screwed. They're basically treated as chow for the undead that need to eat. But on the other hand, some of the guys in law enforcement would probably think it's an absolute knee-slapper to chain a human criminal up to the gangs of zombies who work the fields and mines. Undead who for some reason break the law would probably just be re-killed/recycled/something like that.
Police and guard forces would probably be made up of ghouls, wights and other undead with an inherently military bent, with a scattering of living folks.

Culture

I imagine such a culture would be decadent, to say the least. Try Roman culture for ideas. Things like gladiator fights, plays, festivals, feasts (just because you don't need to eat, who says you can't?), and...certain dirty activities that I don't feel like mentioning out loud. Just for fun, perhaps many of the undead aristocrats keep living pets? I mean they literally keep some dogs, or a housecat, or something more exotic. Keep in mind that just because there are more undead people than living ones, the same rule doesn't necessarily apply to the animal population. Other than that, try and have some fun developing the culture, and both the human and undead place in it.

Religion

While most of the undead would probably flock to some evil god, I imagine many of the remaining humans wouldn't necessarily be too cool with that. Probably some neutral god with the death domain for them, if there is one. I imagine clergy would hold either tremendous political power or barely any. Personally, I'd say the former, as these are the guys who can easily make more undead, whether it's just some more zombies to bolster your slave ranks, or some more intelligent undead citizens, the priests would come in handy.

Military

Since Gale isn't interested in conquest right now, I imagine he'd just try and hold the fort. Perhaps defensive 'burial mounds' out of which the contractually obligated hordes of skeletons and zombies are stored? Most of the army will be mindless, with overseers and strategists being human necromancers and intelligent undead.


On an unrelated note, since nobody in the nation dies anymore, the population would literally skyrocket upwards. Gale would want methods of population control, else he's going to have to expand his domain to fit sooner of later. Something that would be cool would be if he started carving underground cities and tunnels as well.



And there you have some more ideas. Hope I was helpful.

gaymer_seattle
2008-02-11, 12:19 PM
I am going to go along with a lot of what other people have said as far as flavor goes. I imagine that this guy is trying to recreate the living world. He can't have an actual living world, so he is making a macabre version of it.

If you haven't seen it, watch Nightmare Before Christmas.

You're talking about an entire nation, I wouldn't bother yourself with a lot of game mechanics and specifics (There will be 8000 skeletons, 2000 zombies, no wait 1999 zombies, etc). You have undead people and animals in various states of decay. You can incorporeal dead zipping about. Your statistical undead will be Hannibal's court. You can spec them out it you want, but I think it's better to think in terms of personality unless you think the players are likely to try and throw down with the King of Halloween

Fri
2008-02-12, 01:24 AM
Just make sure that your player got this 'not entirely evil' part.

Don't want to have them wreak havoc and cause wacky hijinks along the country after you made all this cool stuff :)

(adventuring party is just like that)

Baron Malkar
2008-02-12, 02:37 AM
The way I see it is that there are primarily three types of undead Litches as the upper crust, Ghosts as presented in "Ghostwalk" campain suppliment(basicly the people are4 the same as they would be but incorpreal), and skelotons made from the ghosts bodies.

The production of Philacritys would be strictly monotered by the state and litches would have to store them on state run vaults.

Justice would have to be amazingly harsh in order to keep the population down and would probobly have capital punishment for all but the most miner offences.

The ghosts would be most useful as teachers of the living and supervisors of the undead hoards in times of peace and war. Especialy when they can ignore the effects of things like caveins and other working hazzards.

the poulation of dead boddies would be kept down by the litches that wish to participate in the games. Think roman coloseum but the combatants dont fear death because their litches. Also the ghosts would be able to watch the combat from any angle.

Yakk
2008-02-12, 03:00 AM
Zombies are a bad idea unless you can use serious mojo to sustain their bodies.

Bones, on the other hand, are pretty sanitary.

So lots of skeletons. Lots of skeletons.

The nation buys up bones from other nations, and exports lots of goods. As miners, skeletons rock. They can be used for farming (skeleton oxen, as an example).

Most skeletons will have a war program mode and a peace program mode. Figuring out new programs for skeletons is a serious job that takes lots of man hours, mostly employed by overweight scroll-jockeys who spend ridiculous amounts of time working on the programs.

Some skeletons are set up for program testing, designed so it is easy to load new programs in a standard format onto them and make sure they work.

Once this is done, other skeletons are mass produced with the program hard-wired. New models tend to be better programmed than old ones.

Many humans have multiple skeleton assistants. Transportation is skeleton based, manufacturing is skeleton based, farming is skeleton based, etc.

Most dead people end up as a skeleton, and they accept it. Your heirs get paid for your corpse at market rates.

Climbing the mortal social status is encouraged because if you get high enough, you can be nighted. This indicates that you will be brought back as an intelligent undead. This is a singularly rare honor. The raised undead typically lord over their families for a few dozen generations before getting distracted by more interesting things.

The intelligent undead receive most of the benefits of the huge surpluses the automated economy generates. They own shares in the skeleton boneyards. Gaining more power at this stage requires earning favor with the liege, or economic power within the realm.

Human Slaves are, generally, not economically worth it in this empire. Bones of dead people are far cheaper. There are a few specialized slaves for some jobs that are both dangerous and not doable by skeletons.

The "noble culture" of the intelligent undead is separate from the human culture by a significant gap.

(Note: mortals are used for the middle caste, because
A> They provide raw materials for more drones,
B> They provide raw materials for more nobles, and
C> They are both intelligent and disposable, unlike most undead)

Talic
2008-02-12, 03:21 AM
Hannibal sounds like a Lawful Evil sort, very Machiavellian.

With that in mind, note that LE can still be loved by the people. If he realizes the best way to stop dissention is to keep the people happy, he'll do that.

It's the people of OTHER nations who should beware the best LE leaders. They're hungry like wolves, and bent on imposing their order on the world.

Fri
2008-02-12, 03:22 AM
*things about skeleton, culture, and stuff*

this is my favourite post here.