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Akennedy
2008-02-11, 05:48 PM
Well, lately I've become less and less of a power gamer and want to try new classes that have more fluff to them and are more balanced, and thus, decided I want to play a ranger (my gaming group has houseruled rangers and druids' animal companion's HD is = character level+1). That aside, are there any scout/ranger builds out there that anyone is aware of? or just good ranger builds would be cool! Thank you!

Saph
2008-02-11, 06:19 PM
If you're playing Core-only, a straight-classed Ranger works okay. Not amazing, but okay. Just make sure to go for the archery combat style instead of the Two-Weapon Fighting one (TWF rangers are awful). Take all the archery feats - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Greater Manyshot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#greaterManyshot) if you can get it. You'll never do the kind of damage that a melee character will, but you won't have to stand next to monsters and trade full attacks with them, either.

The Animal Companion houserule you're using will make Ranger a much better class, giving you a motive to stick with it instead of multiclassing.

If you have access to both Complete Adventurer and Complete Scoundrel, you can go the Swift Hunter route. Take 3-4 levels of Scout, and the rest of Ranger, then take the Swift Hunter, Improved Skirmish, and Greater Manyshot feats to do truckloads of precision damage on multiple arrows every time you move. Caution: May not really count as 'balanced'.

If you have access to the Spell Compendium, Arrow Mind is a great spell for Rangers. It lets you shoot your bow without provoking AoO's, and is cast as an immediate action.

And don't forget to get yourself a wand of cure light wounds.

- Saph

Worira
2008-02-11, 07:08 PM
Fleshraker at 3rd level.

LotharBot
2008-02-11, 07:09 PM
There are multiple approaches you can take to the ranger, depending on the length of game, the level of game, what else is in your party, and just what you want to do.

One possibility is to go with the archery feats, possibly picking up power attack and a big two-handed weapon for when you end up in melee. Added damage from scout, arrow and bow enchantment, and class features can make you a fairly solid ranged damage dealer.

Another is to go with a TWF ranger-rogue or ranger-scout build centered around adding damage dice and favored enemy bonuses through holy flaming shocking blah blah blah swords, augment crystals, and precision damage. My epic ranger-rogue halfling significantly outperforms both our fighter and our barbarian when we face any of his favored enemies, though it took a while for him to start dealing competitive damage due to his size and strength. Lion's Charge, Rhino's Rush, and several other swift-action spells can really help a build like that.

horseboy
2008-02-11, 08:03 PM
A buddy of mine has a Ranger of the Gnarley. It's around 10th or so with like a 40 to survival and spot. If you want I'll pester him for the build.

Leon
2008-02-11, 08:33 PM
100% Ranger is a fine class to play, your choice of Dual weapons or Ranged hinges on what play style you think you will be wanting to do - what Build it is a choice that you have to make as what feats you choose

AlterForm
2008-02-11, 08:35 PM
Swift Hunter's Handbook (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=854152&highlight=Swift+Hunter+Handbook), if you're interested.

Person_Man
2008-02-11, 08:56 PM
Ranger is actually quite a strong class, if you know how to optimize it.

Would you prefer a TWF or Archery?

Also, why did your group make animal companions MORE powerful? Druids are already one of the most powerful classes, and Rangers are no slouches when played well. And if their HD are based off of character level, and not class level, then everyone in the game should take a 1 level dip into Druid just to get one.

AslanCross
2008-02-12, 12:20 AM
Scout+Ranger is easiest to Skirmish with using archery. Once you get Manyshot, your skirmishes become a lot more powerful. The only other class that I think would be fine in this build is a couple of levels in Fighter for the bonus feats.

It's a whole lot more difficult if you do Ranger+Scout if you're using TWF. Remember that the problem with TWF is that your defining combat style is highly situational and depends on how often you can get out full attacks.

If you're willing to use Tome of Battle, however, Ranger+Scout+Swordsage is pretty good for the TWF style Ranger if you specialize in the Tiger Claw discipline. The fluff isn't too hard to reconcile, and all three classes depend on the use of light armor and Dex. They all benefit from high Wis as well. You really won't end up getting high-level maneuvers and stances, but a couple of low-level maneuvers (Flashing Sun and Wolf Fang Strike) allow you to make good use of your multiple attacks. Flashing Sun allows you to make a full attack plus one additional attack at your highest BAB, while Wolf Fang Strike allows an attack from each weapon as a standard action. Good for skirmishing. There's also the Dancing Mongoose boost, which gives you an extra attack with each weapon you wield.

Akennedy
2008-02-12, 09:55 PM
@ Saph
I Do plan to take Swift Hunter from (CSc?) and the general build I'm looking at is 3 scout/17 ranger with a bunch of perception/survivalist-skills. Although, I just saw a major flaw in archery which turns me off, since archery precision damage revolves around moving 10ft and staying with 30ft, doesn't this open up the character for charging builds? I won't be fighting players but "bosses" tend to use player tactics and tend to be better at them. Anyway to get out of that situation?

@ Lotharbot
I think I want to play a whisper gnome with a longbow and either greataxe/sword or falchion (that way, I'll only ever need d6's!:smalltongue:). So, does spring attack sudden become a good idea (with the other feats that allow + attacks per spring?).

@ horseboy
Sure! Well, please, if it's not too much trouble!

@ Alterform
<Thank you oh so very much!>:smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

@ Person_man
Well, yea, bad wording on my part, animal companions are based on class level not character level (sorry). The reason why we is because none of us really play druids and rangers (for some reason, my group tends to optimize a bunch [which really sucks because it makes it hard for players to play a character they want to play and instead play a character to keep up with the group] so the ranger we feel is especially left out).
I'd like to try archery, but plan on being able to do both okay-ily.

@ AslanCross
Archery does seem to be the way to go, with TWF is hard enough as is. See my first response about my archery. And no, my group doesn't use the Tob, so no luck.

Saph
2008-02-13, 07:39 AM
@ Saph
I Do plan to take Swift Hunter from (CSc?) and the general build I'm looking at is 3 scout/17 ranger with a bunch of perception/survivalist-skills. Although, I just saw a major flaw in archery which turns me off, since archery precision damage revolves around moving 10ft and staying with 30ft, doesn't this open up the character for charging builds? I won't be fighting players but "bosses" tend to use player tactics and tend to be better at them. Anyway to get out of that situation?

Make sure another player is closer to the boss than you are? :P

I mean, unless the DM has done a totally incompetent job of building his final encounter, the boss is always going to clobber someone. Being within 30 feet isn't ideal, but the melee characters are still more likely to get it in the neck than you are.

If you don't think you're tough enough to take a hit, spend the first round buffing, and only move in to shoot on the second round. By then the enemy will be in melee with someone, and will have to take an AoO and give up his full attack to go after you.

- Saph

Craig1f
2008-02-13, 10:56 AM
Take Improved Skirmish from Complete Scoundrals to add an additional +2d6 damage and +2AC while skirmishing when you move 20ft instead of just 10.

I'd take 4 levels of scout for the bonus feat after you hit character level 9.

I think you want to do Scout 3/Ranger 6/Scout 1/Ranger X

Draz74
2008-02-13, 11:45 AM
I Do plan to take Swift Hunter from (CSc?) and the general build I'm looking at is 3 scout/17 ranger with a bunch of perception/survivalist-skills. Although, I just saw a major flaw in archery which turns me off, since archery precision damage revolves around moving 10ft and staying with 30ft, doesn't this open up the character for charging builds? I won't be fighting players but "bosses" tend to use player tactics and tend to be better at them. Anyway to get out of that situation?

There's always Sidestep Charge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#sidestepCharge), although it's only a +4 AC bonus, and you probably won't have a strong melee attack ready to take advantage of the AoO.

Be glad Skirmish gives you an AC bonus?

Get a Cloak of Displacement or Ring of Blinking or something like that, to discourage the BBEG from attacking you because his attack might just miss?

Edit: Or :smallamused: if you're a good maneuverer, you could just end each of your turns exactly 10 feet from him. He can whack you easily, or even 5-ft-step/full attack you, but at least he can't charge! :smallwink:

Worira
2008-02-13, 02:17 PM
If you don't mind using web enhancements, Cyran gliding boots (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20061120a) let you make 10-foot steps instead of 5-foot steps three times a day.

Frosty
2008-02-13, 02:20 PM
If you're ok with dipping one level in cleric, you can make good use of Travel Devotion. You can use a swift action to move up to your speed. You don't have to rely on Greater Manyshot anymore.

Telonius
2008-02-13, 02:22 PM
I know this is a completely noob question (especially coming from me), but I've never figured out how to overcome this. Skirmish requires you to move 10 feet in a round to pull it off. If that's the case, how is a character supposed to do that, and still get a full attack? (Aside from the already-mentioned Gliding Boots).

Enguhl
2008-02-13, 02:26 PM
I know this is a completely noob question (especially coming from me), but I've never figured out how to overcome this. Skirmish requires you to move 10 feet in a round to pull it off. If that's the case, how is a character supposed to do that, and still get a full attack? (Aside from the already-mentioned Gliding Boots).

There are a few ways to do it, but the general point of it is that you don't make a full attack, and that's why they added the extra damage.

Frosty
2008-02-13, 02:30 PM
There are a few ways to do it, but the general point of it is that you don't make a full attack, and that's why they added the extra damage.

Umm no. you're supposed to find ways to get off all your shots, and even then, it has been proven that they still lag behind Fighters in terms of pure damage. However, they are useful in other ways since Scouts and Rangers have lots of skillpoints.

4 options:

1) Use Greater Manyshot. As a standard action, you can fire multiple arrows, each of which gets SKirmish damage.

2) Get the Travel Devotion feat, which lets you, for a certain amount of time per day, move up to your normal speed as a Swift action, thereby letting you get a full-attack afterwards.

3) Get the Pounce ability somehow. this is typically done via dipping one level in barbarian. you can now do a full-attack after the Charge.

4) Go into the Dervish prestige class. While in Dervish dance, you can do a full-attack while moving, but you must move 5ft between each attack.

Person_Man
2008-02-13, 03:24 PM
OK, an archer Scout 3/Ranger 17 is pretty easy. Various suggestions:

Greater Manyshot
Improved Skirmish
Flyby Attack: If you're Dragonborn (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b&page=1), Raptorian, Kobold, Half Fey, etc, you can get wings.

Spell-less and Animal Companion-less Ranger variants. These are listed on the Swift Hunter handbook link above. This is debatable. There are a lot of great Ranger spells out there in the splat books. And its nifty to have an animal companion as a mount or extra meatshield. But your dip into Scout will screw your progression for both. So I'd suggest dumping them. Giving up your spells also opens up the possibility of taking Pierce Magical Concealment, which is hugely useful at high levels.

Arcane Hunter variant from Comp Mage: Gives you Favored Enemy (Arcane Caster and Invocation users). My DM uses casters a lot. Your results may vary.

Harper Paragon or Stalker of Kharash: A 2 level dip in either PrC will give you Favored Enemy (Evil). This is potentially huge for any Ranger, since Swift Hunter let's you bypass Precision Damage immunity for your Favored Enemies. And it also means that you don't need to take Favored Enemy Undead, Aberration, Evil Outsider, Dragon, Goblinoid, Gnoll, or Orc, since most of the enemies of these types that you would be fighting are Evil. This lets you take Monstrous Humanoid, Magical Beast, and Constructs instead. The downside is that you'll probably lose out on 1d6 of Skirmish damage, since the PrC doesn't count as either Scout or Ranger for Swift Hunter.

Wise to Your Ways: Feat from Ghostwalk (3.0 material). Choose one type of Favored Enemy. You add your Favored Enemy bonus to saving throws against the extraordinary, spell-like, and supernatural abilities of your Favored Enemy. Combine with Favored Enemy (Evil), and then dump all of your Favored Enemy bonuses from levels into it.

If you do your progression correctly, you'll end up with a +8 bonus to Saves against most effects from Evil enemies at 20th level.


I know this is a completely noob question (especially coming from me), but I've never figured out how to overcome this. Skirmish requires you to move 10 feet in a round to pull it off. If that's the case, how is a character supposed to do that, and still get a full attack? (Aside from the already-mentioned Gliding Boots).

Ways to get Pounce (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=5305146#post5305146)
Multi-Pounce (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-444438)
Magic Rollerskates (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20061120a)
Greater Manyshot (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicFeats.html#greater-manyshot)
Evasive Reflexes (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060706a) + AoO (reach weapon, Karmic Strike, Hold the Line, etc)
Hustle (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicPowersGtoP.html#hustle)
Psicrown of the Evader (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Psicrown_of_the_Evader)
Leadership (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/featsAll.html#leadership): Get Marshal (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b) and/or White Raven Tactics (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a) using followers.
Press the Advantage (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a)
Elocator (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicElocater.html)

DC 40 Tumble Check: Allows you to take a 10 ft. step. From Oriental Adventures (3.0 material). Actually not that hard to do with Skill Focus (Tumble), 1 level of Exemplar, 1 level of Marshal, and a few magic items.

Sparring Dummy of the Master: From Arms and Equipment Guide (3.0 material). Permanent 10 ft steps. But it requires you take Monk levels.

Falling is a free action. A Scout with any method of flight and a Ring of Feather Falling (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Ring_of_feather_falling) could qualify for Skirmish every other round without having to take any action.

Dervish: I hate this prestige class for a variety of reasons. But it works.

Prometheus
2008-02-13, 09:06 PM
Whether you got two-weapon or archery combat style, the basic premise is multiple attacks that are less likely to hit. Therefore, any buff that increases your base attack or your damage will be more effective. You might not be the most effective combatant imaginable, but any bonuses you get will definitely go further - try to coordinate your magic items and the other PCs abilities to compliment yours.

TheCaptain
2008-02-15, 01:02 PM
The best thing to do is take the fleshraker dinosaur but personally i don't really like using dinosaurs in my campaign.