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Dizlag
2008-02-12, 12:09 PM
Here's the article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20080208a).

Rivers and streams crisscross the world, and upon these waterways, the nomadic halflings quietly do the same. Legend says that Melora and Sehanine together crafted the halflings, instilling in these small folk a love of water and nature, as well as an innate wanderlust and stealth. The same stories say that both goddesses then left the halflings to their own devices.

Left to themselves, halflings lived for ages. They formed close families and communities, centered on their wisest elders. Clans of halflings wandered creation, never stopping for long, and rarely claiming any particular spot as their own. Their traditions formed and survived among a population constantly on the move and influenced little by the ways of other races. Unassuming, resourceful and independent, halflings hardly ever attracted much notice.

But Avandra, the goddess of boldness, luck and travel, took note of the halflings traversing the world. It seemed to her as if these little people, whom she didn’t create, were hers nonetheless by virtue of the fact that they were living manifestations of her best-loved ideals. Halflings say Avandra smiled on them that day, adopting them as her people and blessing them with good fortune through their worldly struggles. Anyone who knows halflings has little doubt that chance is indeed on their side.

Halflings, for their part, hold fables such as these as true, and their rich oral tradition of such tales is an important part of their culture. Young halflings learn the lore of their people, clan and family from hearing stories. From these, halfling children also pick up lessons on morality and knowledge of many subjects. Outside the political struggles, wars, and other concerns of nations and empires, but widely traveled, halflings have observed and preserved what they learned in their common yarns.

Favorite sagas retell the life and deeds of halflings bold enough to strike out on their own to see the world, right a wrong, or accomplish a great task. Most halflings are practical folk, concerning themselves with the simple things in life. Adventurous halflings are of the same stripe but practice such habits in a different way. A halfling leaves the security of family and clan not for high ideals, fame, or wealth. Instead, he goes to protect his community or friends, to prove his own capabilities, or to merely see more of the world than his nomadic lifestyle can offer.

A halfling hero might be the size of a preteen human child, but he has quick feet, deft hands and quick wit. He is forthright, bold and nigh fearless. His talents run toward sneakiness and craftiness. Pluck and fortune carry him to success where others would fail. He is an expression of all that halflings esteem, and so he is a valuable ally and a daunting foe.

All this went into creating halflings for the 4th Edition Dungeons & Dragons game. The popular halfling of 3rd Edition is only slightly re-imagined so the race’s mechanical elements make the story elements true. Halflings are still Small, even though they are not 3rd Edition’s versions—in which halflings are the size of 3- or 4-year old humans. They still make great rogues, but they also make good rangers. A few new aspects, such as a tweak to Charisma and a slight influence over luck, in addition to making halfling warlocks viable, reinforce the halfling as a lucky, loveable protagonist. A halfling can also be a hard-to-kill enemy sharp of tongue and blade.

In other words, halflings are exactly what veteran D&D players expect from the 4th Edition refinement to something that worked well in 3rd Edition. Similar flavor, mechanical underpinning to the story, and as much, if not more, fun.

It's been mentioned over at EN World about a nice copy & paste job this article is from Races & Classes. I agree. I bought R&C and this article is a word for word fluff copy from that book. Come ON WoTC! Give us something new!

/rant

With that said. I like the fluff of the new halflings and the fact that they are slightly bigger and not toddler size anymore. :smallsmile:

Enjoy!

Dizlag

Newtkeeper
2008-02-12, 12:18 PM
Their new size, I like. I never really was able to take any creature the size of a toddler seriously as a fighter. Oldish child, I think is good.

The fluff is interesting, and I can't say I prefer 3e halflings in that regard either.

On the other hand, Tolkien is probably rolling in his grave ("I said hobbits hate boats, you idiots!"). On the third hand, we diverged from Tolkien after 2e, so we're really no worse off in that regard- and, after all, there is more to fantasy than copying Tolkien word for word, so I really shouldn't complain.


Now, a word from a few famous halflings:

Frodo: Well, hobbits were nomads before the shire, they can be nomads after. But I thought it was a road that goes ever on, not a river...

Smeagol: Yea, rivers! That's where we found our precious!

Belkar Bitterleaf: Okay, but can we get back to stabbing?

KIDS
2008-02-12, 12:27 PM
Short. Simple. Elegant. I like it!

I can't tell you how much the height differences annoyed me, I'm very glad this is being changed (elves to slightly taller than humans, halflings to more than babies - yay!)...

Morty
2008-02-12, 12:27 PM
Finally, the absurd of halflings being the same size as human toddlers is over. In other aspects, the only major difference between 3ed halflings and 4ed halflings is that now halflings travel on rivers.

Swooper
2008-02-12, 12:50 PM
Why don't they just call them kender and get it over with? These things don't have anything to do with halflings besides being roughly the same size, and unfortunately, sharing a name. :smallannoyed:

NB, I don't mind these guys all that much, it's just that they're not halflings. They even wear shoes for Tolkien's sake!

Newtkeeper
2008-02-12, 12:53 PM
Why don't they just call them kender and get it over with? These things don't have anything to do with halflings besides being roughly the same size, and unfortunately, sharing a name. :smallannoyed:

NB, I don't mind these guys all that much, it's just that they're not halflings. They even wear shoes for Tolkien's sake!

True, but we're no worse off now than in 3.x. At least they live in rivers now, to distinguish them from kender.

RTGoodman
2008-02-12, 12:56 PM
I like the Luck aspect (carried over from 3.x stuff, but still cool), and I know that if any of my players happen to read this, they'll latch on to the idea of a Halfling Warlock and not let go. :smallsigh:


Also, to those who fret that these aren't Tolkien's halfling, well... they're not. That's been gone for a while. And either way, I doubt there's anything mechanically tying them to rivers (well, maybe some skill stuff, but that's changeable), so you just need to re-fluff them and you'll be set.

Indon
2008-02-12, 12:57 PM
Why don't they just call them kender and get it over with? These things don't have anything to do with halflings besides being roughly the same size, and unfortunately, sharing a name. :smallannoyed:

NB, I don't mind these guys all that much, it's just that they're not halflings. They even wear shoes for Tolkien's sake!

Think of them as the ancient hobbits, well before shire habitation - nomadic river-dwellers, like Smeagol was.

(And some of the Brandybucks fish, if I recall)

As for Kender, we all know that Kender society consists of only one facet, and we all know what that facet is, and these halflings don't appear to have it.

Roderick_BR
2008-02-12, 12:59 PM
Apparently they are changing a bit the size rules, with small being comparable to human pre-teens. Maybe actual human kids (and halflings pre-teens) will be the 3.0 small size, with more additional sizes. Maybe

I'll kinda miss the old small bugers, crawling through spaces too small for an adult human. But I guess most people will like these changes. I know a friend that likes to play halflings, and while they still get their stealth bonuses, it won't matter to him that they are taller now.

Cybren
2008-02-12, 01:06 PM
Legend says that Melora and Sehanine together crafted the halflings, instilling in these small folk a love of water and nature, as well as an innate wanderlust and stealth.

And stealth? and stealth?
Okay, i didn't expect much in the way of quality writing, but jeez, something better than "and stealth".

horseboy
2008-02-12, 01:26 PM
Hooray for the plucky side kick!

Human Paragon 3
2008-02-12, 01:27 PM
Never liked halflings and still don't. I would have cut them, personally. Halflings are easily the least appealing of the races in my opinion- who wants to play a slightly-smaller nomadic human?

Skjaldbakka
2008-02-12, 01:33 PM
Never liked halflings and still don't. I would have cut them, personally. Halflings are easily the least appealing of the races in my opinion- who wants to play a slightly-smaller nomadic human?

Blasphemy! Halflings are the only civilized race! Let's get hime boys! Who brought the rope?

In response to your question. ME. If they had cut halflings I would have bought a copy to burn in effigy. Or perhaps pirated a copy, printed it out, and burned it in effigy. Before you ask, no I don't have any rational statement defending the inherent superiority of halflings. Its inherent. It doesn't have to be rational.

:smallwink:

KIDS
2008-02-12, 01:35 PM
I'm quite glad that it were gnomes who were removed from the "honor starting races" part and not halflings. Eat that :smallwink:

Newtkeeper
2008-02-12, 02:15 PM
I like halflings. Without hobbits, there would have been no The Hobbit, no LoTR, no modern fantasy as we know it, and (in all probability), no DnD or any other RPG. We owe them, not the other way round.

Admittedly, the modern halfling has distanced himself from his hobbit ancestry- or, at least, adapted a version closer to that of before the colonization of the Shire. Still, a halfling's a hobbit, I say, I say.

Person_Man
2008-02-12, 02:26 PM
River people don't wander. They live on a river. A river has a very definite and well traveled geographic area. You travel up the river. You travel down the river. You stop at the towns and cities established along the river, which are there precisely because everyone uses the river for commerce and travel. And if you're not single, one of these cities probably has your family in it, since nearly impossible to raise children on boats. Space on them is just too precious. Civilization always starts and spreads along the established water ways, whereas nomadic/wandering people tend to move away from them.

I'm not impressed. I don't know where the heck they got the river thing from. And the rest just seems to be cobbled together from whatever was lying around in the 99 cent bin.

Weirdlet
2008-02-12, 02:35 PM
I suppose it depends on your world's geography- I happen to like the new flavor, and just because your main schtick is marsh- and river-gypsy, doesn't mean you can't spread out into other directions and enviroments and adapt on the way. It gives a nice starting-point. The mechanics I'm hearing about don't entirely impress me, aside from starting with no negatives, but some of the fluff-writing appeals to me a lot more than prior examples.

Newtkeeper
2008-02-12, 02:41 PM
River people don't wander.

I'm not convinced. If you have rivers that go into unsettled lands, and have enough branches to make things doable... perhaps not realistically, but at least plausibly enough to head off 'that can't be done' at the pass.

Regarding size of boats, and families: halflings are smaller, and the rivers are just as big- so the boats can be relatively bigger, compared to the traveller.

Anyway, it's fantasy- heroic, sword and sorcery fantasy. We don't worry too much about the logistics, any more than how gryphons are aerodynamically impossible.

To sum up: This is the first 4e fluff change (as compared to 3e) I have nothing against. Hobbit boat people seem just plausible enough to work, while being fantastic enough to invoke wonder- and that is the real goal of fantasy, eh!

Kurald Galain
2008-02-12, 02:48 PM
Well, it's nice and all that, but the piece really isn't telling us much of anything. I think WOTC started their marketing campaign for 4E too early, as their signal-to-noise ratio for the previews is too low for my taste.

Subotei
2008-02-12, 02:57 PM
I guess its time to call them threequarterlings now they're taller? I wanted bigger Gnomes personally - oh, and smaller giants....

<sighs>

Drakron
2008-02-12, 03:28 PM
I don't know where the heck they got the river thing from.

A night of heavy drinking.

Pronounceable
2008-02-12, 06:08 PM
It's not that bad. But it's not very good either. This is just halfling v1.01, without much change, as they admit.


I guess its time to call them threequarterlings now they're taller?

That's exactly what I thought at first. But kid size is better than toddler size.


Halflings are easily the least appealing of the races in my opinion- who wants to play a slightly-smaller nomadic human?

Better than a smaller human with a bigger nose.

Rutee
2008-02-12, 06:16 PM
Well, it's nice and all that, but the piece really isn't telling us much of anything. I think WOTC started their marketing campaign for 4E too early, as their signal-to-noise ratio for the previews is too low for my taste.

I can definitely agree with this, as regards this article. There's really not a change here, aside from making them larger-then-toddlers.

Mewtarthio
2008-02-12, 06:32 PM
River people don't wander. They live on a river. A river has a very definite and well traveled geographic area. You travel up the river. You travel down the river. You stop at the towns and cities established along the river, which are there precisely because everyone uses the river for commerce and travel. And if you're not single, one of these cities probably has your family in it, since nearly impossible to raise children on boats. Space on them is just too precious. Civilization always starts and spreads along the established water ways, whereas nomadic/wandering people tend to move away from them.

I'm not impressed. I don't know where the heck they got the river thing from. And the rest just seems to be cobbled together from whatever was lying around in the 99 cent bin.

Clearly, you have never tried to outrun a fearsome Halfling Landkayak before.

Talya
2008-02-12, 06:34 PM
Respectable Halflings do not live on rivers. They do not swim. That is left for the disreputable Brandybucks of the world.

Fearless? Halflings? Yeah, so they're all Kender now, are they?

TheThan
2008-02-12, 06:40 PM
While I’m not impressed with the fluff they’ve come up with, it has given me some ideas, like halfing swamp Cajuns, complete with voodoo and the like.

Roderick_BR
2008-02-12, 06:47 PM
Respectable Halflings do not live on rivers. They do not swim. That is left for the disreputable Brandybucks of the world.

Fearless? Halflings? Yeah, so they're all Kender now, are they?
They have been kenders since 3.0... :smallannoyed:

Thinker
2008-02-12, 07:08 PM
Respectable Halflings do not live on rivers. They do not swim. That is left for the disreputable Brandybucks of the world.

Fearless? Halflings? Yeah, so they're all Kender now, are they?

Yes. Anytime something is similar to something else it is being turned into that. Halflings != hobbits. Who would want to play "the weak-spined halflings" in a heroic fantasy game?


While I’m not impressed with the fluff they’ve come up with, it has given me some ideas, like halfing swamp Cajuns, complete with voodoo and the like.

I was thinking the same and I like that direction.

Talya
2008-02-12, 07:27 PM
Halflings != hobbits.


Hobbits are a diminutive race that inhabit the lands of Arda. Known as "Halflings" to most and "Periannath" by the Elves, the word "Hobbit" is derived from the name "Holbytlan" which means "hole-dwellers" in the tongue of the Rohirrim.

I certainly wouldn't call Tolkien's hobbits "weak-spined" in any sense of the word, however. They are, perhaps, the strongest willed of the race of Men on Arda.

holywhippet
2008-02-12, 09:06 PM
Never liked halflings and still don't. I would have cut them, personally. Halflings are easily the least appealing of the races in my opinion- who wants to play a slightly-smaller nomadic human?

Me. Halflings get a lot of + bonuses - saving throws, thrown weapons, saves vs fear etc. Their low strength and small size means they aren't so great as a fighter - unless you give them weapon finesse. Their lower carrying capacity is offset when you get your hands on a bag of holding.

VanBuren
2008-02-12, 10:21 PM
I certainly wouldn't call Tolkien's hobbits "weak-spined" in any sense of the word, however. They are, perhaps, the strongest willed of the race of Men on Arda.

Yeah, but a "respectable" Hobbit is the least suited to be a PC. I mean, most of what made them "respectable" was that they shied away from things that could be adventurous.

Talya
2008-02-12, 10:48 PM
Yeah, but a "respectable" Hobbit is the least suited to be a PC. I mean, most of what made them "respectable" was that they shied away from things that could be adventurous.

Indeed. Adventurers of any race tend to be rarities, though.

Durendal
2008-02-12, 11:01 PM
I wonder if any of this "water affinity" came from Unearthed Arcana and the Water Halfling elemental race variant.

That and, another quote from dear Smeagol: "The rock and pool, is nice and cool, so juicy sweet. Our only wish, [WHACK] to catch a fish, [WHACK] so juicy sweet. "

EvilElitest
2008-02-12, 11:04 PM
Here's the article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20080208a).

Rivers and streams crisscross the world, and upon these waterways, the nomadic halflings quietly do the same. Legend says that Melora and Sehanine together crafted the halflings, instilling in these small folk a love of water and nature, as well as an innate wanderlust and stealth. The same stories say that both goddesses then left the halflings to their own devices.

Left to themselves, halflings lived for ages. They formed close families and communities, centered on their wisest elders. Clans of halflings wandered creation, never stopping for long, and rarely claiming any particular spot as their own. Their traditions formed and survived among a population constantly on the move and influenced little by the ways of other races. Unassuming, resourceful and independent, halflings hardly ever attracted much notice.

But Avandra, the goddess of boldness, luck and travel, took note of the halflings traversing the world. It seemed to her as if these little people, whom she didn’t create, were hers nonetheless by virtue of the fact that they were living manifestations of her best-loved ideals. Halflings say Avandra smiled on them that day, adopting them as her people and blessing them with good fortune through their worldly struggles. Anyone who knows halflings has little doubt that chance is indeed on their side.

Halflings, for their part, hold fables such as these as true, and their rich oral tradition of such tales is an important part of their culture. Young halflings learn the lore of their people, clan and family from hearing stories. From these, halfling children also pick up lessons on morality and knowledge of many subjects. Outside the political struggles, wars, and other concerns of nations and empires, but widely traveled, halflings have observed and preserved what they learned in their common yarns.

Favorite sagas retell the life and deeds of halflings bold enough to strike out on their own to see the world, right a wrong, or accomplish a great task. Most halflings are practical folk, concerning themselves with the simple things in life. Adventurous halflings are of the same stripe but practice such habits in a different way. A halfling leaves the security of family and clan not for high ideals, fame, or wealth. Instead, he goes to protect his community or friends, to prove his own capabilities, or to merely see more of the world than his nomadic lifestyle can offer.

A halfling hero might be the size of a preteen human child, but he has quick feet, deft hands and quick wit. He is forthright, bold and nigh fearless. His talents run toward sneakiness and craftiness. Pluck and fortune carry him to success where others would fail. He is an expression of all that halflings esteem, and so he is a valuable ally and a daunting foe.

All this went into creating halflings for the 4th Edition Dungeons & Dragons game. The popular halfling of 3rd Edition is only slightly re-imagined so the race’s mechanical elements make the story elements true. Halflings are still Small, even though they are not 3rd Edition’s versions—in which halflings are the size of 3- or 4-year old humans. They still make great rogues, but they also make good rangers. A few new aspects, such as a tweak to Charisma and a slight influence over luck, in addition to making halfling warlocks viable, reinforce the halfling as a lucky, loveable protagonist. A halfling can also be a hard-to-kill enemy sharp of tongue and blade.

In other words, halflings are exactly what veteran D&D players expect from the 4th Edition refinement to something that worked well in 3rd Edition. Similar flavor, mechanical underpinning to the story, and as much, if not more, fun.

It's been mentioned over at EN World about a nice copy & paste job this article is from Races & Classes. I agree. I bought R&C and this article is a word for word fluff copy from that book. Come ON WoTC! Give us something new!

/rant

With that said. I like the fluff of the new halflings and the fact that they are slightly bigger and not toddler size anymore. :smallsmile:

Enjoy!

Dizlag

WOTC doesn't need to give us something new, they've already made the annoying "look at me i'm different" elves, tieflings, and dwarves, at least they kept halflings the same. They don't need to change them, because they made the stereotypes in the first place generally, that is waht subraces or setting specific books are for
from
EE

Rutee
2008-02-12, 11:08 PM
Indeed. Adventurers of any race tend to be rarities, though.

3rd Ed. Halflings were, within core, written to be mobile and roaming merchant types, as a whole. I think we already moved away from Tolkien's hobbits.

EvilElitest
2008-02-12, 11:25 PM
3rd Ed. Halflings were, within core, written to be mobile and roaming merchant types, as a whole. I think we already moved away from Tolkien's hobbits.

Didn't halfings differ from hobbits back in 2E?
from
EE

horseboy
2008-02-12, 11:45 PM
While I’m not impressed with the fluff they’ve come up with, it has given me some ideas, like halfing swamp Cajuns, complete with voodoo and the like.
I can just hear the banjos now. And to think the halflings from Dark Sun were much feared. :smallwink:

And, yeah, Hobbits were called halflings all through the trilogy.

snoopy13a
2008-02-13, 12:24 AM
In Tolkien, Hobbits call themselves Hobbits, it is the other people who call them halflings (with the exception of the Big Folk of Bree who call them Little Folk).

Am I the only one confused about "nomadic halflings leaving their clan and seeing the world"? Aren't nomads by their very nature "seeing the world?"

I suppose it really doesn't make a difference to hobbit-fans though. People can just house-rule in Hobbits and house-rule out the nomads.

Hawriel
2008-02-13, 12:48 AM
ok so they are not Tolkien Hobbets. All of this is not very far off from what I have invision haflings being. 3rd ed turned them into Bilbo/Taslehof highbreds. I just cut out the parts of the racial personality fluff that where anoying. This 4ed sampling is really not much different. Ive alwasy seen Hobbets/haflings as being the size of an eight or ten year old humen. This river traveler fluff just makes me think WOTC is using Huck Fin or Tom Soyer as the base idea insted of Kender. Not any thing to be amazed by its just new. I just see a little more gnome put into the race. Then again in my little world Halflings had that aspect to them already. IMO wizards didnt really change the halfling they just added some culture fluff to them. I see no reason why these halflings could not be in the same world as Tolkien Shire or 3rd ed Kender/bilbo halflings.

I do not recal in any world from D&D there ever being an independent city or country for halfings. Is there one in any world setting? I kind of imagine its like Willow's village.

Brawls
2008-02-13, 01:07 AM
River people don't wander. They live on a river. A river has a very definite and well traveled geographic area. You travel up the river. You travel down the river. You stop at the towns and cities established along the river, which are there precisely because everyone uses the river for commerce and travel. And if you're not single, one of these cities probably has your family in it, since nearly impossible to raise children on boats. Space on them is just too precious. Civilization always starts and spreads along the established water ways, whereas nomadic/wandering people tend to move away from them.

I'm not impressed. I don't know where the heck they got the river thing from. And the rest just seems to be cobbled together from whatever was lying around in the 99 cent bin.

I tend to agree. You can have "river people" who live on barges or boats, but that presumes fairly tame waters. I picture this working in an environment where you have an extensive river/canal system, like in lowland Europe. In which case, Halflings as riverbound traders might work similar to Gypsies (or Gyptons from The Golden Compass). Still, a sophistocated and extensive canal system tends to reflect a far more advanced civilization than most of the campaigns I play in.

I tend to be too much of a Tolkein fanboy to accept that Halflings are now a waterbound culture. The size things doesn't bug me much, but I'll take my pastoral and sensible Hobbits, thankyouverymuch!

Brawls

ShadowSiege
2008-02-13, 01:50 AM
Dark Sun and Eberron halflings are the best halflings. Or a combination thereof. Cannibal halflings riding dinosaurs!

But in regards to the article, it's a relatively minor change to 3.x halflings. Seems like it'll work fine.

Kurald Galain
2008-02-13, 07:39 AM
Didn't halfings differ from hobbits back in 2E?

No, that was mainly done to avoid lawsuits from the Tolkien estate.

The ones that are really different are the Kender from Dragonlance, and the wild halflings from Dark Sun. Ironically, those kender seem to have become more popular than Tolkien hobbits - just like Tinker Gnomes have supplanted "original" gnomes.

AtomicKitKat
2008-02-13, 08:48 AM
Me. Halflings get a lot of + bonuses - saving throws, thrown weapons, saves vs fear etc. Their low strength and small size means they aren't so great as a fighter - unless you give them weapon finesse. Their lower carrying capacity is offset when you get your hands on a bag of holding.

Those are precisely the things I dislike most about them. The whole "We're small, so give us lots of stuff to overcompensate!". It's really just flipping the "bigger is better" mantra on its head, and no better. Size needs to do more statistically anyway, like every size category away from Medium, you get X*10% more/less HP. Makes Giants truly fearsome, and Pixies truly fragile.

AD&D had Hairfoots, Tallfellows, and Stronghearts. All they're gonna do is just dust off the Tallfellows and make them the default.

jamroar
2008-02-13, 09:00 AM
I do not recal in any world from D&D there ever being an independent city or country for halfings. Is there one in any world setting? I kind of imagine its like Willow's village.

Luiren in the Southern Realms. That Shire ripoff nation from D&D Mystara. Kenderhome (if you count kender as halflings).

Vilehelm
2008-02-13, 09:34 AM
As a Dark Sun player, this is what my kind of halfling looks like:

http://www.harshweb.com/Athasian%20Halfling%20Forum.jpg

AtomicKitKat
2008-02-13, 10:15 AM
As a Dark Sun player, this is what my kind of halfling looks like:*snip*

Looks rather a lot like those legends of African Pygmies.