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Akennedy
2008-02-14, 06:38 AM
I've been playing with the idea of skillmonkies lately and I was wondering if there was any good builds our there for Tricksters. I was thinking I would be able to ask my DM to move the Arcane Trickster's BAB to rogue's if I play a battle sorcerer. So, To all of you out there... any suggestions? Caster level isn't that big of an issue, as I will be focusing more on my skills and my spells will be there to get me out of situations (and in them occasionally). Any and all suggestions/help appreciated! Thank you for your time and effort!

Ellisthion
2008-02-14, 08:40 AM
If you're not fussed about Evasion, taking a level of Assassin is a good way of qualifying for Arcane Trickster earlier. Means you get there 1 level earlier, and get all the lvl1 Assassin abilities.

Person_Man
2008-02-14, 10:41 AM
If you have Tome of Battle, you can use Martial Study + Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance) to get 2d6 Sneak Attack. This allows you to qualify for Arcane Trickster without losing any caster levels, though you can't enter the class until much later in your progression due to Skill requirements.

Or you could go Rogue 1/Wizard 5/Unseen Seer/Arcane Trickster. Unseen Seer (Comp Mage) only requires 1d6 Sneak Attack to enter, and it also gives you some Sneak Attack progression.

Nebo_
2008-02-14, 10:48 AM
Or you could go Rogue 1/Wizard 5/Unseen Seer/Arcane Trickster. Unseen Seer (Comp Mage) only requires 1d6 Sneak Attack to enter, and it also gives you some Sneak Attack progression.

+1 but with spellthief and master spellthief

Person_Man
2008-02-14, 12:04 PM
+1 but with spellthief and master spellthief

Hey, that's quite a good idea.

Spelltheif 1/Wizard 5/Unseen Seer X/Arcane Trickster Y. 19/20 Wizard caster progression. And with the Master Spellthief feat, you can steal spells as a 20th level Spellthief. And since you can "borrow" spells from willing subjects, you can do all sorts of crazy combinations if you have a Cleric in the group. Polymorph + Greater Invisibility + Divine Might + 8d6 Sneak Attack FTW!

valadil
2008-02-14, 12:18 PM
This isn't for a specific build, but I don't recommend Arcane Trickster if you have to play from level 1. I tried that and wizard and rogue both progressed way too slowly for my liking. If the game is starting at level 10, you're probably okay, but if you have to play from level 1 Beguiler is probably a better choice.

Just out of curiosity has anyone tried making a Trickster out of a Beguiler?

Rad
2008-02-14, 12:23 PM
Beguiler is good, Trickster si... not that good, so if you have a Beguiller you keep it...
The Unseen Seer/Thing is nice but has steep prerequisites; last time I considered it it took the Able Learner feat to qualify by the minimum level.
In general I would avoid Sorcerer for the casting class because of the Int synergy that Rogue/Wizard has.

Frosty
2008-02-14, 12:24 PM
Why the heck for? Beguilers and attacking people physically just don't mix well.

valadil
2008-02-14, 03:50 PM
Why the heck for? Beguilers and attacking people physically just don't mix well.

Umm. For all those ray spells Beguilers get! Well, maybe if you were a shadowcrafter who liked shadow evocation. 6 beguiler, 5 shadowcrafter, 2 rogue, 7 arcane trickster, or something? (Note that I didn't actually look at a single prereq for that build.) Maybe it'd be cool in gestalt.

SadisticFishing
2008-02-14, 03:52 PM
My build has always been:

Spellthief 1/Wizard 4/Spellwarp Sniper 5/Arcane Trickster 10. (Get master spellthief)

Using Unseen Seer has never appealed to me, as you lose caster levels and are supposed to be a damage dealer, so spells that do damage will be out of the picture.

Oh, as an aside, if you sneak attack with Vampiric Touch... do you gain more temporary hitpoints?

Frosty
2008-02-14, 03:55 PM
Oh, as an aside, if you sneak attack with Vampiric Touch... do you gain more temporary hitpoints?

Yes, yes you do.

CasESenSITItiVE
2008-02-14, 03:57 PM
there was a nice feat in cityscape that allows you to make it look like a spell was coming from somewhere else. it had no mechanical benefits, apart from keeping you hidden after casting the spell. this is particularily useful, however, if you like getting smeak attacks of rays and ranged touch attacks

Stabby
2008-02-14, 05:00 PM
the feat is called "Invisible Spell" and I love it. Its a 0 spell level adjustment, so it can be applied to flippin everything. Can use say invisible prismatic wall? I get that feat on most of my spell slingers.

Fax Celestis
2008-02-14, 05:33 PM
the feat is called "Invisible Spell" and I love it. Its a 0 spell level adjustment, so it can be applied to flippin everything. Can use say invisible prismatic wall? I get that feat on most of my spell slingers.

My (new) favorite trick is enlarged invisible disintegrate. I shoot you from incredible distance with an invisible ray. If you die, you're dust. It'd be excellent for sniping.


My build has always been:

Spellthief 1/Wizard 4/Spellwarp Sniper 5/Arcane Trickster 10. (Get master spellthief)I much prefer Spellthief 1/Duskblade 5/Warblade 1/Jade Phoenix Mage 10/Eldritch Knight 3. Casting, maneuvers, and thievery!

Chronos
2008-02-14, 08:25 PM
I personally don't recommend Arcane Trickster at all, unless you can combine it with Spellthief. The "trickster" part of Arcane Trickster is all based around Sneak Attack, which (in my opinion) is the rogue's least valuable ability. On the other hand, Spellthief provides a way to use Sneak Attack to good effect, so Impromptu Sneak Attack suddenly becomes much more valuable.

Then again, though, pure Spellthief by itself is also a decent choice, and gives you good skills and some spellcasting (plus the Steal Spells ability) all together, in one neat little package.

Squash Monster
2008-02-14, 09:30 PM
Arcane Tricksters are great, but the early levels are really painful. And the advice on using Rogue 1 + Unseen Seer 1 to qualify is very good.

The trick to Arcane Tricksters is that you should be using sneak attack with ray spells. And what has a good flatfooted touch AC? Next to nothing, that's what. Keep yourself invisible, or keep your opponents on Grease (I think Sculpt Spell is a must for the AT), and enjoy the ability to nearly auto-hit your enemies.

Nebo_
2008-02-14, 09:52 PM
the feat is called "Invisible Spell" and I love it. Its a 0 spell level adjustment, so it can be applied to flippin everything. Can use say invisible prismatic wall? I get that feat on most of my spell slingers.

No, there's another one, too. I do so love invisible spell.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-02-15, 12:15 AM
Beguiler -1, Spell Thief -1, Rogue -1, Beguiler +5*, AT - 10, X-2

Evil Beguiler -1, Spell Thief -1, Beguiler +5*, Assassin -1, AT- 10, X-2

Magical Training feat (PGtF version not FRCS version) for Mage Hand at first level plus a second cantrip. Master Spell Thief feat already mentioned.

X-2 to PRCs to personal taste (*with a possible 3 other PRCs for fewer Beguiler levels)

Factotum -3 could be really nice with a few extra Font of Inspiration feats for less spellcasting.

No spell book keeping or daily spell slot planning. No ASF in light armor. Decent weapon proficiencies (Just in case or for some occassional fun). Just need to have a copy of the Beguiler spell list (Pencil or sticky in Mage Hand + another cantrip). UMD addresses other magic uses in game. Lots of feats for customizing.

A single Arcane Disciple feat like the Spell Domain (or other domain to personal taste) adds a lot of utility to the PC for spellcasting. Of course there is always the Luck Domain and High Arcana for no experience point arcane Miracles 2/day as a spell like ability and 1/day for the bonus domain Miracle.

Taking a Bloodline feat or two from Dragon magazine would probably be a good ideal for increasing known spells.

I like the Nexus method for a Beguiler if your DM will let you take it (I like +0LA planetouched humans for PCs without LA buydown).

With LA buydown the +2 LA Shadow Creature template could be really nice for the PC.

http://realmshelps.dandello.net/datafind/feats.shtml Edit: Unfortuneately the Magical Training feat page 41 PGtF was not picked up in realms help dandello (probably because it has the same name as the original feat in FRCS).