Gestalt Build Challenge III: The Urge To Theurge

[Duke of URL]

GESTALT BUILD CHALLENGE III: THE URGE TO THEURGE

A man cannot serve two masters, but a master may have multiple servants.

"Gestalt Build Challenge" General Rules

Unless otherwise specified in the specific challenge, the following rules and guidelines are always in effect:
Gestalt builds; 28-point buy; use any WOTC 3.5 product (including Dragon magazine) except where noted (only 3.0 products with an official upgrade to 3.5 are allowed)
Make all builds to ECL 20. However, indicate the minimum ECL the build is playable at (the level at which all LA and/or racial HD, if applicable, are accounted for) and label any level that indicates a "power break" where the build has a significant jump in power level. Provide a detailed description of how the build operates.
Any race with a listed level adjustment is allowed (no racial progressions from Savage Species, please). LA and HD each apply to one side of the gestalt; you may include LA and HD on the same side as each other, or on other sides. No LA buyoff. LA is applied before racial HD, which must be paid off before class levels on that side. Examples: LA X / RHD Y / class Z / ... // class A / ... -OR- LA X / class Y / ... // RHD A / class B / ...
Multiclass at will, but see "voting".
Up to two flaws are allowed, but see "voting".
Templates are allowed, but see "voting".
Voting: Upon the close of entries for each challenge, members of the forum may vote in-thread for the build that best represents the goals set out by the challenge. The voting criteria should consist of: Functionality: How well does the build do in its primary role as specified in the challenge? Weaknesses: Does the build have any glaring weaknesses that can be exploited? Playability: How much of the 1-20 level range can the build be played at and be effective? Creativity: Clever use of races, classes, and/or feats that may not be "typical" choices Cheese: Minimizing the number of cheese points Using flaws (1 point each) Ignoring mutliclassing penalties -- some DMs actually do enforce this in gestalt (1 point each) Single-level dips that would require several pages of justification to RP properly (1 point each) Templates that would require several pages of justification to RP properly (1 point per +1 LA) Attempting to use more than one PrC at any given level (1 point each) Attempting to use "dual progression" PrCs (1,000,000 points each -- "dual progression" refers to PrCs that advance the key features of two entry classes at pretty much every level... use common sense) Over-dependence on items (1 point per indispensable item) Over-dependence on Diplomacy or Use Magic Device skills (1,000,000 points each)

"The Urge To Theurge" Specific Rules
Entries may be submitted and edited up until noon PST on Tuesday, Feb. 19, 2008.
Challenge goals: Create a build that excels in two different types of magical, or magic-like disciplines; that is, any two of: Arcane Spellcasting, Divine Spellcasting, Invocations, or Psionic Manifestation.
Please try to follow the format of the example (but also a legit entry) in the next post
Entries Received: "Touched By A Devil" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3936208&postcount=2)
"All Sorts of Creepy" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3937102&postcount=3)
"The Booky" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3938311&postcount=4)
"Nathan" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3939466&postcount=5) <== Winner (on tiebreak)
"Dark Anime" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3940146&postcount=9)
"Holy Avenger" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3941099&postcount=13)
"The Dark Orator" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3941785&postcount=16)
"The Urge To Merge Theurges" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3941852&postcount=18)
"Two Heads Are Better Than One" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3942146&postcount=21)
"Aethon Frost" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3944749&postcount=37)
"The Omnicaster" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3945177&postcount=38)
"You can't hide from me..." (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3946305&postcount=42)
"Gods in the Machine" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3946467&postcount=44)
"Cebremancer on Meth" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3955791&postcount=50)
"Righteous Threatener" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3957614&postcount=52)
"Presto the Digitator" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3958522&postcount=53)
"Sapphire Seductress" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3960103&postcount=58)


Upcoming Challenges
Army Of One -- single-creature adventuring parties
Invocation Vocation -- invokers need a little loving, too
Double Dippers -- double arcane, double divine, or double psionic progressions
Home On The Range(d) -- those who attack from afar
Vulnerable Villains -- BBEGs with flair but an exploitable (if not necessarily obvious) weakness
Riders On The Storm -- combatants who focus on using mounts
Magnificent Monsters -- only high LA and racial HD creatures allowed
more to come... (I hope. Feel free to suggest some!)


Previous Challenges
Melee Masters (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3873051)
Great Gishes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71548)

[Duke of URL]

(Work in progress)

Name: Touched By A Devil
Build: Human Favored Soul 20 // Warlock 15 / Hellfire Warlock 3 / Chameleon 2
Starting Ability Scores: STR 8, DEX 16, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 16
Cheese Points: 0
Minimum Playable Level: 1
Power Break: None really

Human: [Able Learner]
1: Favored Soul 1 // Warlock 1: Battle Caster
2: Favored Soul 2 // Warlock 2: {Detect Magic at will}
3: Favored Soul 3 // Warlock 3: x {Deity's Favor (single), Damage Reduction (cold iron)}
4: Favored Soul 4 // Warlock 4: {Deceive Item}
5: Favored Soul 5 // Warlock 5: {Resist 10 Sonic}
6: Favored Soul 6 // Warlock 6: x
7: Favored Soul 7 // Warlock 7:
8: Favored Soul 8 // Warlock 8: {Fiendish Resilience}
9: Favored Soul 9 // Warlock 9: x
10: Favored Soul 10 // Hellfire Warlock 1: {Resist 10 Acid, Hellfire Blast}
11: Favored Soul 11 // Hellfire Warlock 2: {Hellfire Infusion, Resist 10 Fire}
12: Favored Soul 12 // Hellfire Warlock 3: x {Deity's Favor (all), Hellfire Shield}
13: Favored Soul 13 // Chameleon 1: {Aptitude Focus}
14: Favored Soul 14 // Chameleon 2: {(Daily) Bonus Feat}
15: Favored Soul 15 // Warlock 10: x {Resist 10 Electricity, Resist 5 Cold, Resist 5 Fire (stacks with above)}
16: Favored Soul 16 // Warlock 11:
17: Favored Soul 17 // Warlock 12: {Wings, Imbue Item}
18: Favored Soul 18 // Warlock 13: x
19: Favored Soul 19 // Warlock 14:
20: Favored Soul 20 // Warlock 15: {Damage Reduction (silver)}


Offense

The offense comes from the Warlock side, with Eldritch Blast at 8d6 plus any blast additions from Hellfire abilities. Other invocations (TBD) can be used for battlefield control, with CHA being the main stat to increase save DCs. UMD is a secondary way of being effective, and the Chameleon levels allow for basically any crafting feat to be used at will when using the Warlock's Imbue Item ability. The Chameleon PrC only costs 1d6 on the blast and one Dark invocation (on offense, at least). The floating feat can also be used to pick up an extra invocation (eventually up to Greater) or other useful ability when not used for crafting.

Defense

The Favored Soul side is used primarily for buffing and healing (including ability damage from Hellfire -- resotration, lesser is a must-have spell). Since this focuses exclusively on spells that do not require saves, WIS can actually be dumped, as it's only purpose is to increase save DCs.

Saving throws are good all around (thanks to Favored Soul). HPs are decent. Can wear medium armor (without ASF problems) and use shields (ASF is an issue, but easily overcome). Energy resistances of Fire 15, Acid/Electric/Sonic 10, and Cold 5. Damage resistance of 10/silver and 4/cold iron. Flight from wings. The ability to detect magic at will (a 1st level ability!) shouldn't be disregarded either.

Weaknesses

It is not as potent offensively as a build using 9th-level spells for that, but it has a good deal of flexibility and can deliver solid damage all day long.

Low skill points -- and pretty much all of them will be dedicated to Hellfire Warlock and Chameleon prerequisites through level 12.

Alignment must be LE or NE to qualify for both Warlock and to get silver DR at level 20.

[Ganurath]

Name: All Sorts of Creepy
Build: Dromite Dread Necromancer 19 // Warlock 20
Starting Ability Scores: STR 10, DEX 14, CON 12, INT 12, WIS 6, CHA 18
Cheese Points: Unless benefiting from Imbue Item to get more out of Item Creation feats than a Dread Necromancer should is UMD cheese, 0
Minimum Playable Level: 1
Power Break: Two and whatever level you can get undead the soonest.

{table]Level|Class A|Class B|Suggested Feats
1|Warlock 1|LA +1|Tomb-Tainted Soul, Blind-Fight (Racial)
2|Warlock 2|Dread Necromancer 1|
3|Warlock 3|Dread Necromancer 2|Spell Focus (Necromancy)
4|Warlock 4|Dread Necromancer 3|
5|Warlock 5|Dread Necromancer 4|
6|Warlock 6|Dread Necromancer 5|Battle Caster
7|Warlock 7|Dread Necromancer 6|
8|Warlock 8|Dread Necromancer 7|
9|Warlock 9|Dread Necromancer 8|Black Lore of Moil
10|Warlock 10|Dread Necromancer 9|
11|Warlock 11|Dread Necromancer 10|
12|Warlock 12|Dread Necromancer 11|Craft Magic Arms and Armor
13|Warlock 13|Dread Necromancer 12|
14|Warlock 14|Dread Necromancer 13|
15|Warlock 15|Dread Necromancer 14|Spell Penetration?
16|Warlock 16|Dread Necromancer 15|
17|Warlock 17|Dread Necromancer 16|
18|Warlock 18|Dread Necromancer 17|Greater Spell Penetration?
19|Warlock 19|Dread Necromancer 18|
20|Warlock 20|Dread Necromancer 19|[/table]


Offense

Packs a modest punch at level 1 with the Fire (personal choice, balances later Cold Resistance) Energy Ray providing backup to the Eldritch Blast, which is in turn backed up by Baleful Utterance. Things progress nicely once you start getting DN levels, with Charnel Touch and Eldritch Blast cover all your damage dealing needs and free your daily spell slots up for more utilitarian choices like Spectral Hand. A feat that I personally consider to be a must is the Black Lore of Moil, as it turns all those utilitarian spells into offensive spells as well. During the late game, you have Utterdark Blast, Eldritch Chain, and a legion of Wights commanded via rebuke.

Defense

Between natural armor, light armor, and a fair Dexterity bonus, that vulnerable first level isn’t too difficult to manage. I call it vulnerable because you don’t have Dread Necromancer right away, so that first level Tomb-Tainted Soul is dead weight that becomes infinite healing later. Once you start pumping out undead (do NOT take The Dead Walk) you can use them as shields to cast from behind. If you’re worried about enemy casters, feel free to throw around voracious dispels for countermagic and removing buffs so your minions can close the gap.

Weaknesses

Relatively vulnerable early on, since all it takes is a lucky blow to drop. Creepy naturally hates Clerics of a positive energy variety, or any variety for that matter. Unless they use PDMM cheese, in which case a voracious dispel burns up over a half-dozen turnings and deals some damage to boot. In short, the best way to address the class’s vulnerabilities is to stay out of melee and eliminate enemy clerics ASAP.

Oh, and you have to be evil. You can technically be chaotic neutral and meet the requirements of both classes, but you'll wind up being evil eventually. Hope you aren't partnered up with a paladin.

Feat Reasoning
1. Tomb Tainted Soul is dead weight at the level you take it. At the very best, you’re going to surprise an evil cleric who hoped to drop you with a touch spell, and that’s a stretch.

3. Spell Focus (Necromancy) is mainly there to meet requirements for the Black Lore of Moil, but it increases the DCs of all those fear inducing and debuffing necromancy spells, so that’s always a plus.

6. Battle Caster lets you get some lovely magic armor that’s more protective than your chitin. You could interchange it with Spell Focus, but odds are that early on the boost to DC is going to do more to save your hide than a boost to AC.

9. Odds are whatever spell you’re casting at this level is going to be affecting either your living opponent or your undead minions. Throwing in a negative energy chaser never hurt your side.

12. Craft Magic Arms and Armor lets you control what sort of boosts your mithral full plate will be sporting, as well as let you equip your incorporeal undead subordinates with ghost touch weapons.

15+. Spell Penetration helps you overcome Spell Resistance just as well as it helped me overcome writer’s block. Feel free to do whatever from 15 onward. If you plan on going epic, Eschew Materials is a prerequisite for the epic feat that frees you from your addictions to runebones and black onyx.

Race Reasoning
Dromites have natural armor which, combined with light armor and dex, provides Fighter grade AC at early levels. Add in their Charisma bonus, and it's a wonder why they don't go into either of these classes more often.

{table]Voting Criteria|Why Creepy Deserves the Vote
Functionality|Maxed out Warlock, and Dread Necromancer is as high as it can be without bringing their convoluted lichdom into play (huzzah Occam's Razor!) and making things needlessly confusing. Can lead an undead army with an infinite supply of invoked destruction, so it represents both classes and their unison rather well.
Weaknesses|Between the finite number of invocations and the dread necromancer's really devoted specialization, the build has a narrow arsenal of magic. However, this isn't too big of a weakness if you select invocations that cover the weak spots of the DN like voracious dispel and charm.
Playability|Although the first level is a little sensative without the Charnel Healing trick, this build is playable at any level.
Creativity|Although it synergizes well, the Dromite is not a typical pick for Cha spellcasters due to the psionic association. Also, I find it unlikely that the Black Lore of Moil was intended to be used on nondamaging spells.
Cheese|No cheese here, not even cheese that wouldn't have registered as cheese points like Persistent DMM.[/table]

[Squash Monster]

"Name": The Booky

The Idea: Archivist and Wizard go together like bread and, well, bread. They both prepare spells out of books, what more do you want? We take this bread and fill it up with some delicious extras like War Weaver and Sacred Exorcist to make a delicious optimized sandwich.

Race: Illumian (Uurkrau)

{table=header]ECL | Class 1 | Class 2 | BAB | HD | Class Features
1 | Archivist | Wizard | 0 | d6 | Focused Specialist: Conjuration, Abrupt Jaunt (replaces Familiar), Scribe Scroll (twice, heh), Dark Knowledge (tactics) 3/day
2 | Archivist | Wizard | 1 | d6 | Lore Mastery
3 | Archivist | Wizard | 1 | d6 | Dark Knowledge 4/day
4 | Archivist | Wizard | 2 | d6 | Still Mind
5 | Archivist | Wizard | 2 | d6 | Dark Knowledge (Puissance), Domain Granted Power (replaces bonus metamagic)
6 | Archivist | War Weaver | 3| d6 | Dark Knowledge 5/day, Eldritch tapestry
7 | Archivist | War Weaver | 3 | d6 | Lore Mastery, Quiescent weaving 1
8 | Archivist | War Weaver | 4 | d6 | Dark Knowledge (foe), Quiescent weaving 2
9 | Archivist | War Weaver | 4 | d6 | Dark Knowledge 6/day, Quiescent weaving 3
10 | Archivist | War Weaver | 5 | d6 | Bonus Archivist Feat, Quiescent weaving 4, Enlarged Tapestry
11 | Archivist | Sacred Exorcist | 5 | d8 | Dark Knowledge (dread secret), Exorcism, Turn Undead
12 | Combat Medic | Wizard | 6/1 | d6 | Healing Kicker: Sanctuary
13 | Combat Medic | Wizard | 6/1 | d6 | Defensive Casting, Field Healer
14 | Combat Medic | Wizard | 7/2 | d6 | Healing Kicker (reflex saves), Mobility
15 | Combat Medic | Wizard | 7/2 | d6 | Evasion
16 | Combat Medic | Wizard | 8/3 | d6 | Healing Kicker (aid), Domain Granted Power (replaces bonus metamagic)
17 | Archivist | Archmage | 8/3 | d6 | Dark Knowledge 7/day, High Arcana
18 | Archivist | Archmage | 9/4 | d6 | Lore Mastery, High Arcana
19 | Archivist | Archmage | 9/4 | d6 | Dark Knowledge (foreknowledge), High Arcana
20 | Archivist | Archmage | 10/5 | d6 | Dark Knowledge 8/day, High Arcana
[/table]

Expected HP:
19d6 + 1d8 + 40 = 111 HP

Casts as:
20th level Archivist
19th level Wizard (20th caster level due to Krau sigil)

Specialization:
Focused Conjuration (Drops Enchantment, Evocation, Abjuration)

Feats:
1st: Extend Spell
3rd: Enlarge Spell
6th: Skill Focus: Spellcraft
9th: Spell Focus: Conjuration
10th Archivist: Spell Focus: Transmutation
12th: Extra Turning
15th: Divine Metamagic: Persist
18th: Extra Turning

Other feat-like bonuses:
2nd Lore Mastery: Religion
5th Domain Granted Power: Travel
7th Lore Mastery: Arcana
16th Domain Granted Power: Undeath
17th High Arcana: Mastery of Shaping
18th High Arcana: Mastery of Elements
18th Lore Mastery: Nature
19th High Arcana: Arcane Reach
20th High Arcana: Spell-Like Ability: Shapechange

Strengths:
Spells. No, seriously: Archivist casts every Divine spell, Wizard casts almost every Arcane spell. All you're missing are a few Bard and Sorcerer specific spells.
Single Attribute Dependency: both of your classes are Intelligence based. Archivist gets bonus spells from Wisdom, but your Uurkrau sigil makes that Dexterity, instead. And Dex is a good stat.
War Weaver: You can drop buffs you know up to 5th level on all your allies at once. Because the Healer class gets Heal at level 5, and Archivist can get spells from any Divine source, Heal qualifies. Because of your Combat Medic levels, you can actually convert any 6th or higher spell into a Heal for this purpose spontaneously.
Divine Metamagic: Persist. You can do this twice per day by the end. Because you can get Druid spells as an Archivist, this includes dropping a DMM:Persisted Greater Vigor through your Weave on your entire party.
Decent saves: your Will is through the roof, your Fort is good, and your Reflex is not too bad, on account of Combat Medic.
Abrupt Jaunt: you can teleport 3+intmod times per day as an immediate action. This is for if you mess up and get next to something that could kill you with your horrible HP.

Weaknesses:
Pretty low HP. You mostly have d6 for your hitdice.

Base Stats:
STR: 8
DEX: 14
CON: 14
WIS: 8
INT: 18
CHA: 8
Put all your bonuses into Intelligence.

How it works:
DMM: Persist a Greater Vigor and cast it through your weave at the start of the day to give everyone fast healing 4. If they somehow get hurt, spontaneously turn something into Heal and pop it through the weave. You can also DMM: Persist your favorite buff on yourself, or find any other use for it.

When you get into a fight, you can unload buffs on everyone at once using your War-Weaver abilities, or you can cast battlefield control spells, as you see fit. You are, after all, a focused specialist conjurer. Don't forget Quiescent Weaving, either: at the start of a battle you can cast your four favorite buffs as a move action and use your standard action for another buff or a battlefield control spell.

Of course, your decent dex score allows you to ray somebody to death, if that's your thing.

Protection:
You are a focused specialist conjurer. If something gets close enough to you to hurt you, you're doing something very wrong.

Get the usual AC-enhancing items to be safe. And remember, when you cast Displacement on the entire party, that includes you too.

Playability:
This build is great for all levels, but slightly behind the power curve until level 6. While you'll have more spells available than any other caster, you still only can cast one per action. Once you get your Weave ability, you can cast one spell on multiple people, which fixes this.

At level 10 you don't need your friends to be next to you when you're casting touch-range buffs. This is huge.

At level 11, you get Turn Undead. Not too big of a deal. Yet.

At level 15, you get Divine Metamagic Persist. Now your Turn Undead is useful. Enjoy your Persisted Greater Vigor.

At level 16, you get the ability to do spontaneous Heals, which is amazing, really.

At level 17, you can live in an Anti Magic Field Doughnut, hooray.

At level 20, you might want to consider more standard DMM: Persist Cheese, as you can be a Divine Powered Righteous Mighted Shapechanged god of death. Or you can keep sitting back and buffing your friends, that's fun too.

[_Puppetmaster_]

entry:

Name: Nathan
Build: Neutral Human Warmage 10/Rainbow Servant 10//OA Shaman 16/Archmage 4
Cheese Points: 0
Starting Ability Scores: Str 10, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 16
Level 20 Ability Scores: Str 10, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 30 (24 w/out cloak)
Minimum Playable Level: 1
Power Break: Level 16 (spontaneous cleric spells)


Human [Warrior Shugenja (ancestral)]

OA Shaman 1//Warmage 1: Spell Focus (Evocation) [Improved Unarmed Strike] {Armored Mage (light), Warmage Edge, Animal Companion (Riding Dog), Shaman Domains (Celestial, Nature)}
OA Shaman 2//Warmage 2 {Spirit Sight}
OA Shaman 3//Warmage 3: Spell Focus (Conjuration) {Advanced Learning, Turn Undead}
OA Shaman 4//Warmage 4 [Iron Will] {Cha +1}
OA Shaman 5//Warmage 5 {Spirit’s Favor}
OA Shaman 6//Warmage 6: Extend Spell {Advanced Learning}
OA Shaman 7//Rainbow Servant 1 {Detect Evil at will, Extra Domain: Good (Applies to Warmage)}
OA Shaman 8//Rainbow Servant 2 [Combat Reflexes] {Cha +1}
OA Shaman 9//Rainbow Servant 3: Persistent Spell
OA Shaman 10//Rainbow Servant 4 {Extra Domain: Air (Applies to Warmage)}
OA Shaman 11//Rainbow Servant 5 {Extra Shaman Domain (Wood)}
OA Shaman 12//Rainbow Servant 6: Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) [Ki Shout] {Cha +1}
OA Shaman 13//Rainbow Servant 7 {Extra Domain: Law (Applies to Warmage), Detect Chaos at will}
OA Shaman 14//Rainbow Servant 8
OA Shaman 15//Rainbow Servant 9: Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
OA Shaman 16//Rainbow Servant 10 {Clerical Spell Access (Applies to Warmage), Detect Thoughts at will, Cha +1}
Archmage 1//Warmage 7 [Sudden Empower] {High Arcana (Mastery of Shaping)}
Archmage 2//Warmage 8: Improved Toughness {High Arcana (Mastery of Elements), Armored Mage (Medium)}
Archmage 3//Warmage 9 {High Arcana (Arcane Reach)}
Archmage 4//Warmage 10 [Sudden Enlarge] {Wis +1, High Arcana (Mastery of Counterspelling)}


Spells per day (Warmage [in order, levels 0-9]): 6/6/6/6/12/6/6/6/6/5


Spells Known (Warmage):
0: All Warmage, All Cleric,
1st: All Warmage, All Cleric, One Wizard Evocation Spell
2nd: All Warmage, All Cleric,
3rd: All Warmage, All Cleric, One Wizard Evocation Spell
4th: All Warmage, All Cleric,
5th: All Warmage, All Cleric,
6th: All Warmage, All Cleric,
7th: All Warmage, All Cleric,
8th: All Warmage, All Cleric,
9th: All Warmage, All Cleric, One Wizard Evocation Spell


Spells per day (Shaman[in order, levels 0-9+Domain Spells]): 6/4+2/4+2/4+2/4+1/4+1/2+1/1+1/1+1

Offense:
Being a Warmage, Nathan has his share of offensive spells, and his Warrior Shugenja feat lets him almost always avoid attacks of opportunity from enemies when he is casting.
He should stay out of melee reach, however, because he is somewhat squishy.
He also has backup: his Fleshraker Dinosaur animal companion with abilities as if Nathan was a 13th-level druid.

Defense:
His armor is a +5 Bluring Heavy Fortification Mithril Full-Plate, a ring of protection +5, and an amulet of natural armor +5, plus protective persistified buffs.
AC 32 without buffs is good.
He is also immune to critical hits and, thanks to the blurring enchantment, attacks against him always have a 20% miss chance.

Weakness:
He is somewhat squishy at 96 hit points (using the average values in the DMG)

Equipment:
+5 Bluring Heavy Fortification Mithril Full-Plate (146,500gp)
Ring of Protection +5 (50,000gp)
Amulet of Natural Armor +5 (50,000gp)
Ring of Wizardry IV (100,000gp)
Tome of Leadership and Influence +5 (used) (137,500gp)
Tome of Understanding +1 (used) (27,500gp)
Cloak of Charisma +6 (36,000gp)
Heward’s Handy Haversack (2,000gp)
Divine Focus (0gp)
Pearl of Power (6th, 5th) (70,000gp)

Money Left: 125,500gp

[Chronos]

Squash Monster, did you mean to put Sacred Exorcist on the other side, or can that advance arcane spells?

Also,
Focused Conjuration (Drops Enchantment, Evocation, Abjuration)I presume you're using Archivist spells to pick up the slack on essential Abjurations like Dispel Magic? Because that's about the only way one can ever justify dropping Abjuration.

[Ganurath]

Squash Monster, did you mean to put Sacred Exorcist on the other side, or can that advance arcane spells?*flips through Complete Divine* Sacred Excorcist has no stipulations about arcane and divine spellcasting.

[Squash Monster]

Sacred Exorcist does advance either. Advancing Wizard is, in this case, ever so slightly better (archivist has more class features), so I did that.

Abjuration is not a terribly powerful school, and it's fairly reasonable to drop if you're not a gish. The main loss is Dispel Magic, which is painful but you can handle it. However, this doesn't matter at all, because Abjuration is also a school with lots of overlap between the Arcane and Divine sides. So yes, the slack is meant to be picked up with Archivist.

[Jack_Simth]

Name: Dark Anime
Build: Magical Talents Variant Swordsage-20//Savage Bard-5/Ur-Priest-10/Hierophant-5
Starting Ability Scores: STR 8, DEX 10, CON 16, INT 10, WIS 16, CHA 12. All level boosts go into Wisdom.
Cheese Points: 0 (or 1, if you decide that the Ur-Priest is inherently cheesy, but it's on the list of permitted sources, so....).
Minimum Playable Level: 1
Power Breaks: 9th (Adaptive Style for a quick recharge and reselect of today's set of Magical Talents Variant Swordsage powers). 14th or 15th (depending on how boosted Wisdom is by then - 9th level Cleric spells).

Human: Able Learner
1: Magical Talents Variant Swordsage -1 // Savage Bard-1 Spell Focus(Evil)
2: Magical Talents Variant Swordsage -2 // Savage Bard-2
3: Magical Talents Variant Swordsage -3 // Savage Bard-3 Iron Will
4: Magical Talents Variant Swordsage -4 // Savage Bard-4
5: Magical Talents Variant Swordsage -5 // Savage Bard-5
6: Magical Talents Variant Swordsage -6 // Ur-Priest-1: Any Metamagic Feat
7: Magical Talents Variant Swordsage -7 // Ur-Priest-2
8: Magical Talents Variant Swordsage -8 // Ur-Priest-3
9: Magical Talents Variant Swordsage -9 // Ur-Priest-4: Adaptive Style
10: Magical Talents Variant Swordsage -10 // Ur-Priest-5
11: Magical Talents Variant Swordsage -11 // Ur-Priest-6
12: Magical Talents Variant Swordsage -12 // Ur-Priest-7: Feat Available
13: Magical Talents Variant Swordsage -13 // Ur-Priest-8
14: Magical Talents Variant Swordsage -14 // Ur-Priest-9
15: Magical Talents Variant Swordsage -15 // Ur-Priest-10: Feat Available
16: Magical Talents Variant Swordsage -16 // Heirophant-1
17: Magical Talents Variant Swordsage -17 // Heirophant-2
18: Magical Talents Variant Swordsage -18 // Heirophant-3: Feat Available
19: Magical Talents Variant Swordsage -19 // Heirophant-4
20: Magical Talents Variant Swordsage -20 // Heirophant-5
Offense

The offense comes from the Magical Talents Variant Swordsage side - per the Tome of Battle Adaptation notes, he gets arcane spells in place of maneuvers of equivalent level, with spells from the Abjuration, Transmutation, and Evocation schools (Especially personal spells) being the most appropriate. Time Stop and Shapechange are both personal transmutation spells. Meteor Swarm is Evocation. They can be used on a per-encounter basis (with a full-round action recharge time, due to Adaptive Style.... and he can technically do that during a Time Stop), and he can start getting 9th level effects at level 17 from the Swordsage side. He also has access to 9th level Cleric spells at 14th, assuming he can pump Wis up to 28 or better by then... and he gets a 9th level Cleric spell at 15th, if his Wisdom is at least 19 by then. Enough said, I think.

Defense
He's got ten levels of a good Fort save (Heirophant, Savage Bard), and a good Reflex and Will for the entire progression. In light or no armor, he gets Wisdom to AC, and has Cleric spells available to buff up with, say, Magic Vestments. It's also Wisdom based casting... on both sides. Hit Dice are okay - five levels of d6 (Savage Bard and the selected Variant Swordsage both get d6 hit dice), fifteen levels of d8 hit dice. Add Clerical buffs to flavor. If you want to go that route, he gets turning attempts from the Ur-Priest, and has feats available for Divine Metamagic.

Weaknesses
Relatively low hit dice (for Gestalt), but that's not a requirement of the build.
Alignment must be CE or NE to qualify for both Savage Bard and Ur-Priest (although changing to a Lawful alignment after 5th doesn't hurt the build, as Bards retain all class features when they change to a prohibited alignment). Antimagic Fields are a pain (most abilities are either spells or Su) but aren't too bad - he's still left with 3/4ths BAB, a reasonable hit die, Wis to AC, and light armor; the biggest problem is that his offense is stripped away in such circumstances.

[Chronos]

Sacred Exorcist does advance either. Advancing Wizard is, in this case, ever so slightly better (archivist has more class features), so I did that.In that case, I agree. Dark Knowledge isn't all that much, but it's more than advancing your familiar. For that matter, actually, even multiclassed wizards still advance their familiars some.

Jack_Smith, you're actually using the Arcane Swordsage / Adaptive Style / Timestop trick, and you're worried about Ur-Priest possibly being cheesy? I can smell the Limberger from here.

EDIT:
Oh, one more question, Squash: Why the Mastery of Elements? The other Arcana you picked, I can see the reasoning, but you've barred Evocation, which eliminates most of the spells you could apply it to, and most blasty spells aren't worth bothering with anyway. You're pretty much left with the Orbs, and those come in one for each element already.

[Squash Monster]

In that case, I agree. Dark Knowledge isn't all that much, but it's more than advancing your familiar. For that matter, actually, even multiclassed wizards still advance their familiars some.Actually, it's even worse than that. The character used an alternate class feature (Immediate Magic: Abrupt Jaunt) that replaces the familiar. As long as a given prestige class advances caster level, giving up a Wizard level loses nothing at all (except for the Domain Granted Powers every five levels).

[Jack_Simth]

Jack_Smith, you're actually using the Arcane Swordsage / Adaptive Style / Timestop trick, and you're worried about Ur-Priest possibly being cheesy? I can smell the Limberger from here.
Most battles don't actually last long enough for that to matter. Generally, in a battle, you'll time stop exactly once, buff or summon, then zap away. With a full Dozen manuevers readied at the start of a battle (at 20th), even if he finds a way to use three per round (Swift, Move, and Standard action effects) he's got four rounds before he actually runs out. If the battle runs that long at that level, he's pretty much either losing anyway, the DM is throwing an absurd number of opponents at him, or his opponent is weak enough that he's toying. In the first case, he's still losing, so it doesn't really matter; in the second, they're either mooks (in which case, it doesn't really matter) or he's being thrown an encounter level outside his league (which is an issue to take up OOC with the DM - the instant recharge simply makes it possible to deal with); in the third, it doesn't matter anyway as the target isn't a threat to begin with. It's sort of like using Divine Metamagic on Vigorous Circle - you're spending three feats and seven turning attempts to fill the role of Party Healer - and all you're really doing is avoiding the continued expense of Wands of Cure Light Wounds, as said Wands cover 99% of the same role that the fast healing does. Really, it essentially just fixes an endurance issue - you still can't affect an opponent during a Time Stop, and Conjouration(Summoning) spells aren't on the list of appropriate things to give him on the swordsage side for use with Time Stop. Any allies he Summons have to come off his Ur-Priest list, and he can't affect opponents during the Time Stop.

[Talic]

Code Name: Holy Avenger
Build: Lammasu 7/Cleric 11 Warlock 6 and 7
Gest: ECL +5/Warlock 5/Enlightened Spirit 10
Racial Mods: Str +12, Dex +2, Con +6, Int +6, Wis +6, Cha +4
Final Stats: Str 20, Dex 16, Con 20, Int 14, Wis 25, Cha 20
HP: 251 at level 20, assuming average HP.
Cheese Points: 0 (assuming a race that casts as a 7th level cleric has cleric for a favored class)
Saves: F +18, R +12, W +20
Min Play level: 7
Final BAB:+15/+10/+5
Final casting stats: Casts as a Cleric 18, Warlock 17, Eldritch Blast 9D6.
Feat Breakdown: Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, DMM, Power Attack, Leap Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper.
Skill Breakdown: Jump, UMD, various knowledges (religion, the planes, arcana), Spot, Listen, Diplomacy.


Abilities:
Racial:

Magic Circle Against Evil (Su): Constant, 20 ft radius
Spell Like Abilities: 2/day - Greater Invisibility. 1/day - Dimension Door. CL 7.
Pounce(ex): Full attack + Rake on a charge.
Rake(ex): +19 to hit, 1d6 + 3.
Racial +2 to Spot.
Fly 60 ft, Avg.
Natural Armor +10

Cleric:

Turns as 11th level Cleric, 8 turn attempts per day.
Casts as 18th level cleric, domains Good and Healing.

Warlock:

Eldritch Blast +4d6
Invocation: Least or Lesser.
Spell like Ability: At Will: Detect Magic. CL 7.
Damage Reduction: 2/Cold Iron
Deceive Item.
4 invocations known, 3 are least or lesser, 1 is any, up to dark.

Enlightened Spirit:

Aura of Courage
Aura of Menace
Eldritch Blast +5D6
Spirit Blast
Holy Blast
Celestial Flight
Tongues, continuous.
Fire and Electricity Resistance 5
Least, Lesser, or Greater Shape invocation
Transform Magic.
Death Ward, continuous.
Spirit Armor +3 (Sacred)


Invocations Chosen:
Eldritch Spear (Warlock)
Beguiling Influence (Warlock)
Eldritch Chain (Warlock)
Eldritch Cone (Enlightened Spirit)
Eldritch Doom (Warlock)

Equipment: Mithril Breastplate +1, Heavy Fortification
Flavor to taste, not very dependent on items, though they will help.

Combat style: COMBAT. Uses DMM to Persist 1 spell/day, usually defensive in nature. Loves Greater Magic Fang. Typically uses Eldritch blasts at a distance with greater invis or flight, then closes to melee with a pouncing charge. Can Fly 60' with average maneuverability, or 30 with good, and typically switches between the two as needed. Uses Enlightened Spirit abilities to control magic and heal. Devoted to fighting evil in all its forms, but bears a special grudge against demons and devils. Uses cleric spells mostly to help allies as needed, and typically stores at least one miracle each day for emergencies.

Prefers to talk, rather than fight, with nonevil creatures, and even evil ones, provided they're not of irredeemable evil (devils, demons, most undead, etc). This is the reasoning behind Beguiling influence and diplomacy. UMD is chosen for synergy with Warlock class abilities, and is not intended to be used as cheese. Likely the only common UMD this would use is Scrolls of Scintillating Scales. Total ranks in UMD will be exactly enough to make taking 10 on checks for this scroll possible. The class has scads of HP and a good AC, combined with natural constant defenses and a few useful spell like abilities. It's able to shoot its pewpewpew beam from good range, and if it wants to close, has multiple options at both 60' and melee. It has natural 10' reach, and is one of the few times warlock can actually USE eldritch doom. The Auras certainly help, as well, with an AC of 28 above, with only the one magic item. a Greater Magic Vestment will make that 31, and from there, Natural Armor, Improved Dex, and perhaps defending armor spikes would push the AC up to a respectable 40 or so.

This was built with the Lammasu's racial beliefs and mindset in mind. I wanted to capture the feel of a holy warrior, with the raw power of a high level invocation specialist/high level cleric. Designed to stay at range and harass, until one swift pounce can bring total victory in combat.

Power Breaks to easily playable at Level 9. This is when it gets power attack, 5th level cleric spells, and Deceive item. It can DMM Persist from level 7, but doesn't gain much benefit, with no more than 1 use a day, and a BAB already equal to a fighter (hooray, magical beast), making Divine Power, the most commonly abused spell, less eye-catching.

[Nebo_]

The Arcane Variant Swordsage is one of the most ambiguous and broken things ever printed. It is so broken, in fact, that the WotC CharOp boards won't touch it with a 10 foot pole. These are the people who made such things as the Cheater of Mystra and Pun-Pun. And they won't touch it.

As far as cheese points go, your total score should shoot into the negatives for even considering that variant. Shame on you.

[Kurald Galain]

Ok, I got an interesting idea...

does this have to be viable anywhere below level 20? Or just at 20?

[Draz74]

This space reserved for re-writing my Dark Orator build ... soon.

Name: The Dark Orator
Build: Human Binder 5/Anima Mage 10/Scion of Dantalion 5//Bard 10/Sublime Chord 5/Fatespinner 4/Mindbender 1
Starting Ability Scores: STR 10, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 12, WIS 8, CHA 16
Cheese Points: 10 (1 flaw, 9 levels with two PrCs*)
Minimum Playable Level: 1
Break Points: Level 3 (able to Persist one buff per day using Metamagic Song), Level 9 (Vestige Metamagic 1/day), Level 11 (able to cast non-Bard arcane spells)

This seasoned pact-maker chants ancient prayers as he fights. Foes seldom understand the prayers, which are in the dead languages of strange spirits known only to a few reckless individuals. But in the mouth of this man, such prayers cause magic to leap from his hands, as if he were a mighty spellcaster of the bardic tradition, though no note of music escapes his throat.

Flaw: Murky-Eyed
Level 1: Binder 1//Bard 1 - Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Extra Music
Level 2: Binder 2//Bard 2 - {Pact Augmentation 1, Suppress Sign}
Level 3: Binder 3//Bard 3 - Metamagic Song
Level 4: Binder 4//Bard 4 - Sudden Ability Focus
Level 5: Anima Mage 1//Bard 5
Level 6: Anima Mage 2//Bard 6 - {Exploit Vestige}, Sculpt Spell
Level 7: Anima Mage 3//Bard 7
Level 8: Anima Mage 4//Bard 8
Level 9: Anima Mage 5//Bard 9 - {Vestige Metamagic 1/day}, Rapid Metamagic
Level 10: Anima Mage 6//Bard 10
Level 11: Anima Mage 7//Sublime Chord 1 - {Vestige Metamagic 2/day}
Level 12: Anima Mage 8//Sublime Chord 2 - Quicken Spell
Level 13: Anima Mage 9//Fatespinner 1 - {Vestige Metamagic 3/day}
Level 14: Anima Mage 10//Fatespinner 2 - {Vestige Casting}
Level 15: Scion of Dantalion 1//Fatespinner 3 - Empower Spell
Level 16: Scion of Dantalion 2//Fatespinner 4 - {Swift Awe of Dantalion}
Level 17: Scion of Dantalion 3//Mindbender 1 - {Overwhelming Thoughts}
Level 18: Scion of Dantalion 4//Sublime Chord 3 - {Improved Thought Travel}, Chain Spell
Level 19: Scion of Dantalion 5//Sublime Chord 4 - {Read Multiple Thoughts}
Level 20: Binder 5//Sublime Chord 5 - {Pact Augmentation 2}

Mediocre HP (119 + whatever you get from CON boosts). Good base saves (Fort +11, Ref +9, Will +21). Good skill points at lower levels; many of them will, of course, be used on PrC prereqs (e.g. Profession) or Perform (Oratory), but there should be some left over to make him an all-around decent party face. Mediocre BAB (+12).

Effective Binder Level: 20
Effective arcane caster level: 20 (with 9th level spells as a Sorcerer ... well, as a Sublime Chord, to be precise)
NOTE: Anima Mage is a dual-progression class, but I don't think it should earn me any cheese points, since I'm not using its arcane casting progression at all. I'm using it solely to advance my Effective Binder Level and to get arcane-related class features.

Vestiges to bind:

Naberius - improve the use of those good social skills.
Focalor, Chupoclops - impose -2 saves on nearby foes; also, Focalor is easy to bind and therefore good to Exploit; give up his lame Breath ability to get an extra spell slot of your highest spell level!
Karsus - Add +2 save DC to any attacks you make with magic items
Dantalion - obviously a favorite, since the Orator invests 5 levels in improving his Dantalion abilities. More teleportation abilities is never a bad thing to have.
Andromalius, Haures, Halphax, Orthos - good save-or-lose type abilities, and a few other interesting options.

Of course, Binders are flexible, and with a day's warning, you can do lots of other roles. For example, you can be a decent archer, if need be, by binding Leraje and Paimon. But it's not your normal focus.

The Dark Orator has two main offensive abilities.

First, use a save-or-lose spell (or vestige ability), and make sure your opponent doesn't save. To do this, you use your Fatespinner abilities, as well as the auras of Focalor and/or Chupoclops.

Second, use metamagic like mad. (Isn't it refreshing to see some metamagic abuse that doesn't involve Incantrix or DMM/Nightsticks?) You've got Metamagic Song and Vestige Metamagic to make things cheap ... actually, almost all of your feats are focused in this direction. So take advantage of it! This is a very flexible caster build.

[Squash Monster]

Or any cool feats that can make 10 levels' worth of Bardic Music into something powerful?Snowflake Wardance (Frostburn).

[Fax Celestis]

Name: The Urge To Merge Theurges
Build: Human Wizard 3/Shadowcaster 3/Noctumancer 10/Mystic Theurge 4//Rogue 2/Druid 1/Bard 4/Archivist 3/Fochlucan Lyrist 10
Starting Ability Scores: STR 8, DEX 10, CON 12, INT 16, WIS 10, CHA 16
Cheese Points: 300,010
Minimum Playable Level: 1
Power Break: ECL 7, when it enters Noctumancer

{table=head]ECL | Left Class | Right Class | Casting As
1 | Wizard | Rogue | Wizard 1
2 | Wizard | Rogue | Wizard 2
3 | Wizard | Druid | Wizard 3, Druid 1
4 | Shadowcaster | Bard | Wizard 3, Shadowcaster, Druid 1, Bard 1
5 | Shadowcaster | Bard | Wizard 3, Shadowcaster 2, Druid 1, Bard 2
6 | Shadowcaster | Bard | Wizard 3, Shadowcaster 3, Druid 1, Bard 3
7 | Noctumancer | Bard | Wizard 4, Shadowcaster 4, Druid 1, Bard 4
8 | Noctumancer | Archivist | Wizard 5, Shadowcaster 5, Druid 1, Bard 4, Archivist 1
9 | Noctumancer | Archivist | Wizard 6, Shadowcaster 6, Druid 1, Bard 4, Archivist 2
10 | Noctumancer | Archivist | Wizard 7, Shadowcaster 7, Druid 1, Bard 4, Archivist 3
11 | Noctumancer | Fochlucan Lyrist | Wizard 8, Shadowcaster 8, Druid 1, Bard 5, Archivist 4
12 | Noctumancer | Fochlucan Lyrist | Wizard 9, Shadowcaster 9, Druid 1, Bard 6, Archivist 5
13 | Noctumancer | Fochlucan Lyrist | Wizard 10, Shadowcaster 10, Druid 1, Bard 7, Archivist 6
14 | Noctumancer | Fochlucan Lyrist | Wizard 11, Shadowcaster 11, Druid 1, Bard 8, Archivist 7
15 | Noctumancer | Fochlucan Lyrist | Wizard 12, Shadowcaster 12, Druid 1, Bard 9, Archivist 8
16 | Noctumancer | Fochlucan Lyrist | Wizard 13, Shadowcaster 13, Druid 1, Bard 10, Archivist 9
17 | Mystic Theurge | Fochlucan Lyrist | Wizard 14, Shadowcaster 14, Druid 1, Bard 11, Archivist 10
18 | Mystic Theurge | Fochlucan Lyrist | Wizard 15, Shadowcaster 15, Druid 1, Bard 12, Archivist 11
19 | Mystic Theurge | Fochlucan Lyrist | Wizard 16, Shadowcaster 16, Druid 1, Bard 13, Archivist 12
20 | Mystic Theurge | Fochlucan Lyrist | Wizard 17, Shadowcaster 17, Druid 1, Bard 14, Archivist 13[/table]

In Progress

[Fax Celestis]

A relevant question: 100,000 cheese points per dual-progression PrC, or 100,000 cheese points per level of a dual-progression PrC?

[Duke of URL]

Ok, I got an interesting idea...

does this have to be viable anywhere below level 20? Or just at 20?

Yes. :smallbiggrin:

Making it viable at as much of the 1-20 range as possible is suggested as a voting criterion, however.


A relevant question: 100,000 cheese points per dual-progression PrC, or 100,000 cheese points per level of a dual-progression PrC?

I think you've cornered the worldwide cheese market.

[TheMeanDM]

Name: Two Heads Are Better Than One
Build: Human Psion 20 // Wizard 5 / Incantatrix 10 / Abjurant Champion 5
Starting Ability Scores: STR 9, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 17, WIS 10, CHA 8
Cheese Points: 1 or 2 (multiclassing?)
Minimum Playable Level: 1
Power Break: 5, 7, 15, 17, 20

{table=header]Class 1 | Class 2 | Class 2a | Class 3 | Manifester Level | Caster Level
Psion 1 | Wizard 1 | - - | - - | 1 | 1
Psion 2 | Wizard 2 | - - | - - | 2 | 2
Psion 3 | Wizard 3 | - - | - - | 3 | 3
Psion 4 | Wizard 4 | - - | - - | 4 | 4
Psion 5 | Wizard 5 | - - | - - | 5 | 5
Psion 6 | - - | - - | Incantatrix 1 | 6 | 6
Psion 7 | - - | - - | Incantatrix 2 | 7 | 7
Psion 8 | - - | - - | Incantatrix 3 | 8 | 8
Psion 9 | - - | - - | Incantatrix 4 | 9 | 9
Psion 10 | - - | - - | Incantatrix 5 | 10 | 10
Psion 11 | - - | - - | Incantatrix 6 | 11 | 11
Psion 12 | - - | - - | Incantatrix 7 | 12 | 12
Psion 13 | - - | - - | Incantatrix 8 | 13 | 13
Psion 14 | - - | - - | Incantatrix 9 | 14 | 14
Psion 15 | - - | - - | Incantatrix 10 | 15 | 15
Psion 16 | - - | Abjurant Champion 1 | - - | 16 | 16
Psion 17 | - - | Abjurant Champion 2 | - - | 17 | 17
Psion 18 | - - | Abjurant Champion 3 | - - | 18 | 18
Psion 19 | - - | Abjurant Champion 4 | - - | 19 | 19
Psion 20 | - - | Abjurant Champion 5 | - - | 20 | 20
[/table]

Stats at 20th Level: STR 9, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 22, WIS 10, CHA 8

Casts As:
20th Level Wizard
20th Level Psionic

Strengths:
Wide spell selection
Wide manifestation selection
Metamagic Feats at reduced cost
High potential AC
Decent BAB (12/7/2)
2x Standard Actions per round (18 or 36 rounds)
Does not have to be heavily reliant on equipment

Weaknesses:
Anti Magic Zone (any caster has this problem)
Null Psionics Field


A note on Undead:
This build is not weak to Undead like a Telepath would be. All the mind affecting manifestations of the Telepath discipline (as well as powers like Psychic Crush, Ultrablast, Mind Thrust, etc) do not affect undead.

But, as I said, this build isn't so concerned about undead, because I (for one) would not choose a great deal of mind-affecting.

But, even if I were to, the Wizard side makes up for that with other spells that can (and do) affect undead.

Level Feats:
1 Human Bonus - Keen Intellect (OA) (INT instead of WIS for Will saves, Spot, Survival)
1 Improved Initiative
3 Iron Will
6 Arcane Thesis: Mage Armor, Greater
9 Psionic Meditation
12 Psionic Endowment
15 Energy Admixture
18 Arcane Thesis: (Fireball or Orb of X -- Acid, for example)

Psionic Feats:
1 Extend Power
5 Power Penetration
10 Expanded Knowledge: Schism
15 Greater Psionic Endowment
20 Expanded Knowledge: True Metabolism

Wizard/Incantatrix Feats:
5/- Extend Spell
-/1 Persistent Spell
-/4 Maximize Spell
-/7 Energy Substitution
-/10 Twin Spell

Combat/Defense:
A decent BAB of 12/5/2, thanks to Abjurant Champion...but that isn't what you want to have happen (obviously).

With Abjurant Champion and Greater Mage Armor, you can get to an AC of 21.
Apply Persistence to it and then subtract for your Incantatrix/Arcane Thesis, and you use only a 7th level slot for a 24 hr spell.

With the Shield spell, you get 4 base, +5 from Abj Champ for 9 total. Apply Persistence and then subtract for Incantatrix, and it's a 6th level spell.

That's an effective AC of 30, with no armor.

If you boost your dex (spells or a +6 item) then you're at 35 AC. Ring of Protection +5 = 40 AC.

You've also got Manifestations to draw from that can increase that as well. Precognitive Defense, for example. With a Torc of Power Preservation, you can expend 15 power points and get a +5 Insight for AC 45. Amulet of Natural Armor +5 makes it a 50 AC. Expend your Psionic Focus and make it last 2x as long!

Not too bad at all.

Spells/Manifestations:
This is where the combination truly, truly shines.

Regardless of which Discipline you take (I like Nomads and Telekinetics myself), make certain you get Schism, the 4th level Telepath discipline power.

For 1 round per level (doubled with Extend Power--36 rounds) you get to "split" your personality into two halves.

Your first (primary) brain can take 1 standard action of any sort each round.

Your second (new) brain can take 1 standard action that involves only mental use (manifesting powers of 1st - 3rd level).

What's this mean?

For 36 rounds, you can cast 1x Spell per round AND manifest 1x power.

Or, you can Manifest 2x mental powers per round.

What's the Power Point cost? A mere 8 points (with Torc of Preservation) or 9 without it.

And, with Psionic Meditation, you can gain your Psionic Focus as a move-action.

So, let's see...here's one example of the power of this build:

Round 1:
move action: Psionic Meditation (Psionic Focus)
manifest Schism (apply Extend Power)

Round 2:
move action: Psionic Meditation (Psionic focus)
standard 1 (new brain) mainfest Twinned Energy (Cone/Burst/Bolt) Augmented with 10 extra PP (expending 15 total) for 30d6

standard 2 (prime brain) cast Twinned, Energy Admixtured Fireball (say, Fire and Cold). That equals a 7th level slot. Apply Instant Maximize (Incantantrix).

That's a total of 20d6 Fire and 20d6 Cold + Maximized = 240 damage

Plus, on average, 105 from the manifested energy cone/etc. That's 345 damage in one round.

Other Spell Benefits:
Swift "Dispel Magic" as counterspells (Abjurant Champion)

Depending on Discipline, you can Dominate people, Control Body people, Plane Shift, Time Hop....tons of fun potential.

If you're in need of healing, Body Adjustment is a great use of your "new" brain (1d12 + augmentable).

Imagine Schism-ing yourself, casting your Maximized Twinned Admixtured Fireball of death for 40d6, then Time-hopping a few rounds into the future to appear and do the same thing again (a 9th level slot, since you used your Incantatrix freebie).

The Shapeshift spell allows you to retain your mental manifesting abilities..nice, eh? Shapeshift into a nasty arse Dragon...and then how about instant Persistence from Incantatrix...wouldn't that be sweet?

Break Points:
First level with a decent Dex (+2) and Improved Initiative (+4) will help you with initiative. Magic Missile will be your friend.

Obviously 5th level is a big break point when you get access to 3rd level spells and 3rd level manifestations.

At 7th Level, you get Expanded Knowledge: Schism, and from then on out, it's double-action-goodness every combat. At that point, you'll have 60 power points to spend.

The final level of Incantatrix (15th) is another break-point.

17th level is access to 9th level Mage spells and 9th level manifestations.

And finally, 20th level will allow you that uber AC thanks to Abjurant Champion.

Equipment:
As has been mentioned, these things would be nice to have:
Ring of Protection +5
Amulet of Natural Armor +5
Gloves of Dexterity +6
Headband of Intellet +6
---alternatively, you can buy a 200k Belt of Magnificence +6
Ring of Wizardry IV
Ring of Spell Battle
(if combined with Ring of Evasion, that'd be even better)
Vest of Resistence +5
Tome of Clear Thought +5 (may as well!)

Stats with Equipment (Belt +6 and Tome +5):
STR 15, DEX 20, CON 20, INT 33, WIS 16, CHA 14

Those stats give you +3 1st to 3rd level spells, +2 4th to 7th, and +1 8th and 9th level spells.

It also gives you +110 power points to add to your 343 for a total of 453 / day.

That's my entry. I like it. I like it...a lot!

[Ganurath]

TheMeanDM, don't you need Energy Substitution before Energy Admixture? Also, what energy type are you substituting/admixing?

[TheMeanDM]

Ah, yes.. I miscalculated. I took Substitution as a 15th level PC, and Admixture as a 7th level Incantatrix--effective to 12th level PC...I need to switch those around.

As far as substituting or admixing goes..it really doesn't matter what you choose.

If you want to use Substitution to memorize your Fireball as an "Acid"ball, and then Admix Electricity into it...you can do that.

[Ganurath]

Ah, yes.. I miscalculated. I took Substitution as a 15th level PC, and Admixture as a 7th level Incantatrix--effective to 12th level PC...I need to switch those around.

As far as substituting or admixing goes..it really doesn't matter what you choose.

If you want to use Substitution to memorize your Fireball as an "Acid"ball, and then Admix Electricity into it...you can do that.Actually, since the Admixed Energy needs to be the same type as the prerequisite Energy Substitution is for, you can't.

[Chronos]

I think this got lost in a cross-post edit:
Oh, one more question, Squash: Why the Mastery of Elements? The other Arcana you picked, I can see the reasoning, but you've barred Evocation, which eliminates most of the spells you could apply it to, and most blasty spells aren't worth bothering with anyway. You're pretty much left with the Orbs, and those come in one for each element already.

[Ganurath]

Ah, yes.. I miscalculated. I took Substitution as a 15th level PC, and Admixture as a 7th level Incantatrix--effective to 12th level PC...I need to switch those around.

As far as substituting or admixing goes..it really doesn't matter what you choose.

If you want to use Substitution to memorize your Fireball as an "Acid"ball, and then Admix Electricity into it...you can do that.Actually, since the Admixed Energy needs to be the same type as the prerequisite Energy Substitution is for, you can't.

[TheMeanDM]

I see what you're saying.

Either way, you'll still end up with a Maximized/Twinned Fireball/x

x = Admixed portion of the spell

So if you have Acid as a Substitution, you have a Fire/Acid Fireball dealing 10d6/10d6 and then twinned for an additional 10d6/10d6.

You can also customize the feats to include other instances of the Sub/Admix combo if you prefer.

I'd recommend keeping Persist Spell (and Extend Spell) though.

[Swooper]

I feel a strong need to one-up Fax's cheesemonster with something involving Beholder Mage and Ur-Priest. I'll see what I can put together over the weekend...

[Ganurath]

I feel a strong need to one-up Fax's cheesemonster with something involving Beholder Mage and Ur-Priest. I'll see what I can put together over the weekend...Fight the urge! Minimal cheese is 20% of the voting block!

[Fax Celestis]

Fight the urge! Minimal cheese is 20% of the voting block!

I'm going for the "Your DM Will Never Let This Build Into His Game" vote. :smallbiggrin:

[Ganurath]

I'm going for the "Your DM Will Never Let This Build Into His Game" vote. :smallbiggrin:I'm shooting for the "Reads The Judging Categories" and "Team EVIL" demographics myself.

[Kurald Galain]

Name: The Urge To Merge Theurges


Hey, I was going to do that! You read my mind :smallfrown:

[Talic]

I'm going for the "Your DM Will Never Let This Build Into His Game" vote. :smallbiggrin:

How's it power break at 7? It's still casting no better than 2nd level spells!

[Fax Celestis]

How's it power break at 7? It's still casting no better than 2nd level spells!

Because it's casting 2nd level spells in three different kinds of magic.

[Talic]

Because it's casting 2nd level spells in three different kinds of magic.

Three different kinds of crap is still crap. At ECL 7, there's things that you should need 3rd to 4th level spells for. The versatility from added spells just doesn't offset the lack of power. I mean, it's hard to compare that level of versatility, good as it is, to the crippling loss of not having, just from the core selection, spells such as:
Wizard

Black Tentacles, Dimension Door
Phantasmal Killer, Greater Invis
Charm Monster, Confusion
Shout, Wall of Ice
Enervation, Fear
Polymorph
Stoneskin, Globe of invulnerability, Lesser

Cleric

Cure Crit. Wounds
Restoration
Divine Power
Death Ward
Freedom of Movement


To be fair, I chose 1-2 gems from each school for wizard, and a few gems from cleric. Each of these has the potential to be a major asset in combat. Just a straight Wizard 7/Archivist 7 has more, far more, ability at this level. And a nearly equivalent amount of versatility, probably more when you factor in other options from 2 levels of magic. Your build seems a bit underpowered for Gesthalt prior to access to the actual theurge classes, which only seem to put it on par, power level wise.

Heck, even a druid 7/cleric 7 could be effective at that level, with casting augmenting wild shape... And natural spell, of course.

[Draz74]

Heck, even a druid 7/cleric 7 could be effective at that level, with casting augmenting wild shape... And natural spell, of course.

Well, "it's weaker than a Cleric//Druid!" is a poor reason to say something is a weak build. :smalltongue:

I mean, I think if all the optimizers on these boards made a "top 5" list of the most powerful Gestalt builds, the two builds that would be in every list would be:
Wizard//Archivist (+PrCs)
Monk 1/Cloistered Cleric 19//Druid 10/Planar Shepherd 10.

You just don't get more powerful than a Cleric//Druid. Good thing it's not what this contest is asking for, since divine and divine aren't two separate types of magic. :smallsmile:

[TheFlamingHobo]

Name: Aethon Frost: Impervious Sanctity of Mind and Body

Description: Aethon is an imposing figure standing tall at a little over six foot tall, his body is powerfully built and pulsing with subtle magical augmentation. Revealed beneath his scuffed and worn plate mail is skin that is as equally cold and tarnished as the armour encasing it. A solid metal banded orb slowly orbits about Aethon, except in times of conflict when the orb rabidly moves to intercept and deflect blows aimed at him.

Iridescent blue eyes that focus a fraction of a second ahead of his target are set within the iron visage of his face, occasionally it appears as though a mote of light passes behind the shining orbs. Around his neck Aethon wears a bejewelled talisman, three cobalt spherical gems set into a platinum band. Although it is plainly obvious that he carries no weapons on his person, he carries himself with the confidence of a trained combatant.

Concept:
This is the first gestalt character I have ever attempted so I was a bit lost when it came to doing the saves so if anyone can help me with it that would be helpful. The build boils down to uber melee combat using cleric and ardent casting to optimize his damage and number of attacks. He has all the cleric casting at his disposal along with a lot of the best psionics has to offer to make him the ultimate theurge.

{table=header]ECL | Class 1 | Class 2 | BAB | HD | Class Features | Domains/Mantles
1 | Cleric | Ardent | 0 | d8 | Turn Undead, Assume psionic mantles (2) | Conflict, Freedom, Planning, Wrath
2 | Cleric | Ardent | 1 | d8 | Assume psionic mantle | Fate
3 | Cleric | Ardent | 2 | d8 | |
4 | Church Inquisitor | Ardent | 3 | d8 | Detect evil, Inquisition domain | Inquisition
5 | Church Inquisitor | Ardent | 3 | d8 | Assume psionic mantle, Immune to charms | Time
6 | Church Inquisitor | Ardent | 4| d8 | Pierce illusions |
7 | Church Inquisitor | Ardent | 5 | d8 | Pierce disguise |
8 | Church Inquisitor | Ardent | 6 | d8 | Immune to compulsions |
9 | Church Inquisitor | Ardent | 6/1 | d8 | Force shapechange |
10 | Sacred Exorcist | Ardent | 7/2 | d8 | Assume psionic mantle, Exorcism, turn undead | Destruction
11 | Contemplative | Ardent | 8/3 | d6 | Bonus domain, divine health | Spell
12 | Ordained Champion | Ardent | 9/4 | d8 | Bonus domain, combat feats, continued advancement, modified spontaneous casting | War
13 | Ordained Champion | Ardent | 10/5 | d8 | Diehard, smite |
14 | Ordained Champion | Ardent | 11/6/1 | d8 | Channel spell, divine bulwark |
15 | Ordained Champion | Ardent | 12/7/2 | d8 | Assume psionic mantle, Fist of the gods, rapid spontaneous casting | Energy
16 | Contemplative | Warmind | 13/8/3 | d10 | Slippery mind, Chain of personal superiority +2 |
17 | Contemplative | Warmind | 14/9/4 | d10 | Divine wholeness, Chain of Defensive posture +2 |
18 | Contemplative | Warmind | 15/10/5 | d10 | Enduring body (DR1/-) |
19 | Contemplative | Warmind | 16/11/5/1 | d10 | Divine body |
20 | Contemplative | Warmind | 17/12/6/2 | d10 | Bonus domain, Sweeping strike | Undeath
[/table]

Hitpoints
1d6 + 14d8 + 5d10 con = enough

Casting:
19th level Ardent
18th level Cleric
5th level Warmind

Feats and Feat-like bonuses:
Conflict Mantle: Weapon Focus: Claws
Planning Domain: Extend Spell
Flaw (Shaky): Persistent Spell
Flaw (Inattentive): Divine Metamagic Persistent Spell
Human: Divine Metamagic Extend Spell
1: Power Attack
3: Extra Turning
6: Extra Turning
9: Extend Power
Destruction Mantle: Improved Sunder
War Domain: Weapon Focus: Bite
Ordained Champion Combat Feats: Leap Attack, Combat Brute
12: Practiced Manifester: Ardent
Die hard
15: Expanded Knowledge: Schism
18: Holy Warrior (or Expanded Knowledge: Psionic, Contingency)
Undeath Domain: Extra Turning


Why it works:
First off the cleric side uses 8 turn undead attempts to fuel persistent extended buffs, he alternates these every other day to effectively double the amount of persistent spells he has active.

Turn Attempts – 4 + 4 + 4 + 3 + cha + n
Where n = amount of nightsticks x 4

Recommended Persistent Spells:
Divine Power, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Righteous Might Channeled Divine Shield, Divine Retaliation, Holy Star, Rhino’s Rush, Wraithstrike, Holy Transformation, Legion’s Conviction

On his first action he uses an Extended Temporal Acceloration to cast what ever else he needs.

Recommended Pre-combat buffs:

Delay Death, Expansion, Footsteps of the Divine, Stone Body, Recitation, Divine Favor, Precience Offensive, Precience Defensive, Schism, Stone Body, Superior Resistance, Interfaith Blessing,Claws of the Beast, Girallons Blessing, Bebliths Blessing, Claws of the Savage (This gives you 8 claw attack and increases the damage of each by 2 size catergories. (which stacks with actual size increase))


Defense:
Not sure how to work out saving throws in gestalt but he should still have fantastic base will and fort save as well as a pretty good reflex save. Due to a few spells (Legion’s Conviction, Precience Defensive, Superior Resistance, Holy Transformation) Aethon has morale, insight, resistance and sacred bonuses to all his saving throws making him nigh untouchable. And with the option to use Fate of One or Evade Burst to ensure he doesn’t fail.

He should also have exceptionally high AC with Magic Vestment on his armour and animated shield as well as deflection from Holy Star, insight from Prescience Defensive, natural from Thicken Skin, luck from Recitation, and probably more AC from other sources that I don’t recall right now. Additionally each attack aimed at him causes Divine Retaliation to strike at his attacker.

If somebody should hit him he is protected by layers of damage reduction and a meat shield of temporary hit points, and the ability to heal himself at a moments notice. Diehard keeps him conscious at negative hitpoints and Delay Death keeps him from dying from hitpoint damage.

To combat his biggest glaring weakness, the damage that a dispel magic could do he wears a Ring of Counterspells containing a dispel magic, when this is extinguished he can cast another at a moments notice. Holy Star protects him against other forms of dispelling with a spell turning effect. Finally in combat Aethon’s schismed mind gains the benefit of practiced manifester and as such can ready to counterspell with a fully augmented psionic dispel magic which includes his +4 bonus to the check due to his inquisition domain. Alternatively he can use his shcismed mind to concentrate on a Dimension Slide to aid in his already impressive manoeuvrability.

In the event that he is some how dispelled (and to some degree in an Antimagic Field) he still retains most of his combat prowess with a mix of combat feats a high base attack bonusa nd the ability to spontaneously as a swift action recast Divine Power.

If using Expanded Knowledge: Psionic Contingency rather then the Holy Warrior option, Aethon uses a contingency to activate an extended Temporal Acceleration if a detrimental action is taken against him. This essentially means he can always get out of trouble, if by preparing and countering the effect or ending the the duration of Footsteps of the Divine and running away at an absurd speed.

Offense:
Aethon begins combat by manifesting an extended Temporal Acceloration for 6 rounds of apparent time to buff and put himself in the most tactically appropriate position.

With Footsteps of the Divine and the Freedom mantle he has extreme mobility.

Between his absurdly high strength score, luck, insight, morale and sacred bonuses to attack, as well as wraith strike for touch attacks Aethon can safely afford to leap attack and power attack for full on each of his attacks (which effect two opponents thanks to sweeping strike). Aethon uses Combat Brute in the following round for even more damage.

Thanks to a few spells Aethon can make 9 claw attacks and 1 bite attack on a full attack.

For the purposes of Aethons smite attack he effectively turns as a 18th level cleric (8th without items) and as such deals an extra 18 (8) points of damage, if using the Holy Warrior feat rather then Expanded Knowledge he also does an additional 9 points of damage as long as he has a 9th level War domain spell prepared. (which should be always).

The first attack on the end of a charge will be a smite attack with a channelled spell, (depending on what he’s facing and how much he wants it dead this could be: energy ray (19d6) harm (150), or even an antimagic field). This attack also automatically does double damage because of Rhino’s Rush. He can make a full attack at the end of a charge with Psionic Lion’s Charge.

This first attack should always hit as he can augment Fate of One for 2 more chances to hit should he fail.


Playabilty:
1st can persist a spell
5th can cast Girallons blessing
7th Divine power
11th access to Anyspell
12th leap attack and combat brute
14th channel spell
20th sweeping strike

Viable at every level, with power breaks at the above points. Though not reliant on any equipment this build of course benefits from the addition of as many Nightsticks as he can get his hands on. Equipment that raises Aethons effective turning level such as the Sacred armour ability and the Rod of Authority directly effect the damage his smite ability deals so getting a hold of those should be a priority.

For preference a Necklace of Natural Weapons enchanted with Mindfeeder and Bodyfeeder would be ideal, temporary power points and hitpoints is always fun. Be sure to coup de grace as often as possible to collect a few extra if your not landing enough crits. Incidentally a charging smiting channelled harm leap attacking full power attack critical hit nets you about
200 temporray hitpoints and power points for you to go nova with.

Cheese:
2 points for Flaws
5 points for Advancing two PrC’s simultaneously
n points for each Nightstick
? points for abusing DMM persist
? points for abusing DMM extend
? points for abusing the Spell Domain
Minus lots of points for not going any where near polymorph and all its bastard children

[Kurald Galain]

The Omnicaster

Aka the Bookkeeper's Bane. The build is based on getting the highest obtainable effects from every single caster class I could find. Thus, the Omnicaster has 9th-level arcane spells, 9th-level divine spells, 9th-level psionic powers, lesser invocations, four soulmelds, a chakra bind, 4th-level vestiges, 5th-level shadowcasting, Perfected Map truenaming, and a maximized UMD skill. Many of these can be combined in novel and interesting ways, through a number of prestige class powers. Basically, if the power exists, you can cast it.

Also, it scores exceptionally well on the cheese point meter. As a bonus, it contains a substantial number of prestige classes with similar sounding names :smallwink:

As a full psionicist at low-to-medium levels, and a full ur-priest at high ones, this build is playable at any level. Also, it comes with a ludicrously high will saving throw.

{table]Level|Class A|Class B|Feats, abilities, etc.
1|Psion|Wizard|Precocious apprentice, quicken power, iron will, bind vestige, improved bind vestige, scribe scroll, alternate class ability instead of familiar
2|Psion|Totemist|Wild empathy
3|Psion|Warlock|Spell focus: evil
4|Cerebremancer|Truenamer|
5|Cerebremancer|Shadowcaster|Travel to the metamagic storm
6|Cerebremancer|Ur-priest|Minor utterance of the evolving mind
7|Psychic theurge|Anima mage|
8|Psychic theurge|Anima mage|
9|Psychic theurge|Anima mage|Utterance of the evolving mind
10|Psychic theurge|Anima mage|
11|Psychic theurge|Anima mage|Vestige metamagic
12|Psychic theurge|Anima mage|Azure talent
13|Psychic theurge|Anima mage|Vestige metamagic x2; tenebrous vestige; open chakra power
14|Eldritch disciple|Anima mage|
15|Eldritch disciple|Soul manifester|Utterance of the crafted tool
16|Eldritch theurge|Soul manifester|
17|Eldritch theurge|Shadowcaster|Quicken spell
18|Eldritch theurge|Shadowcaster|Utterance of the perfected map
19|Noctumancer|Soul manifester|
20|Noctumancer|Soul manifester|Innate counterspell
[/table]

The omnicaster must be evil in alignment to contain this many powers. Additional cheese points are gained by employing the Precocious Apprentice trick for early entry to "2nd level arcane spells" prestige classes. The Tenebrous vestige is required to enter Eldritch Theurge; the Open Chakra psi power is required to enter Soul Manifester.

As we can see, the early levels in the build are rather feat-intensive. This is mainly to pass the outrageous prerequisites for the Ur-priest. As a result, only humans (or other races with a bonus feat) can qualify. Furthermore, we need a few extra feats. There are a number of ways to do this: (1) take two flaws; (2) sell your character's soul to a devil, per the Fiendish Codex; (3) take a legacy weapon; (4) craft a custom magical item that allows it, or (5) convince your DM that Iron Will belongs on the fighter bonus feat list, and take the UA alternate class feature to give your wizard fighter feats.

More feats can be used for additional utterances, or meta-anything. Finally, around level five it will be necessary to travel to the Metamagic Storm, which gives us a free metamagic feat for the period of one year. Again, to qualify for ur-priest. Alternatively, convince your DM that a metapsi feat is an acceptable substitute.

In terms of skills, it works out perfectly for a human with 16 int, or a non-human with 18. After level 7, we have enough to qualify for all prestige classes. The UMD skill is optional, but a build like this reeeally needs more versatility.
{table]Level|Bluff|Arcana|Psionics|Religion|Spellcraft|Pl anes|Intim|Truesp|UMD
1|1 cross|4 wiz|4 psion|4 wiz|4 wiz|4 wiz|||1 cross
2||1 totemist|2 psion|2 psion|2 totemist|1 totemist||
3|5 warlock|1 warlock||||||
4||NEED 6|NEED 6|2 truenam||||6 truenam
5|||||2 cerebre||4 shcast|
6|NEED 6|2 cerebre|1 cerebre|NEED 8|NEED 8|NEED 5 3 urpriest||NEED 6
7|||1 psyth||||NEED 4|2 cross
etc||||||||1 cross|2 cross
[/table]

Ability scores: Str 8, Dex 8, Con 14, Int 16 [+5 level, +6 headband], Wis 14 [+6 periapt], Cha 14

[Talic]

Well, "it's weaker than a Cleric//Druid!" is a poor reason to say something is a weak build. :smalltongue:

I mean, I think if all the optimizers on these boards made a "top 5" list of the most powerful Gestalt builds, the two builds that would be in every list would be:
Wizard//Archivist (+PrCs)
Monk 1/Cloistered Cleric 19//Druid 10/Planar Shepherd 10.

You just don't get more powerful than a Cleric//Druid. Good thing it's not what this contest is asking for, since divine and divine aren't two separate types of magic. :smallsmile:

Perhaps, then, it's less powerful than a non-gestahlt Wizard OR Cleric 7. Gestahlt is supposed to be high power. This guy'd be able to pull his weight in a standard party... Maybe. Not gestahlt. I could see him listing a power break at 10, when the class gets access to 4th level magic (which is a real boost from 3rd level spells)... But not when he's dropping Acid Arrows in response to his opponent's Black Tentacles.

[Chronos]

Kurald, does Totemist count as "arcane caster level 1st"? Because that's a prerequisite for Precocious Apprentice. If not, is there any reason you couldn't swap the Totemist and Wizard levels?

And Fax, why bother with the one level of druid spellcasting, instead of using that level to progress some other class?

[Fax Celestis]

Kurald, does Totemist count as "arcane caster level 1st"? Because that's a prerequisite for Precocious Apprentice. If not, is there any reason you couldn't swap the Totemist and Wizard levels?

And Fax, why bother with the one level of druid spellcasting, instead of using that level to progress some other class?

I need to get Druidic to qualify for Fochlucan Lyrist.

[Beren One-Hand]

Name: You can't hide from me... I know EVERYTHING!!!!
Build: Grey Elf Cloistered Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 10/Divine Oracle 3/Contemplative 1/Seeker of the Misty Isle 1/Lore Master 2//Psion(seer) 20
Starting Ability Scores: STR 6, DEX 16, CON 12, INT 16, WIS 15, CHA 10
Cheese Points: 0-3 (For the dips in Divine Oracle, Contemplative, Lore Master, and Seeker of the Misty Isle) or 1,000,003 (if you count the maxed out UMD ranks at the end to be able to cast the few arcane divinations unavailable to this build)
Minimum Playable Level: 1
Power Break: 12th level (Access to first DMM persistant spell), 18th level (Access to second DMM peristant spell and Persistant Second Chance power)

{table=head]ECL | Left Class | Right Class | Casting As | Available Domains | Special Abilities
1 | Cloisetered Cleric | Psion (seer) | Cleric 1, Psion 1 | Fate, Knowledge, Mind | Lore (Seer alternate ability), Psicrystal, Turn Undead, Uncanny Dodge, +1 CL on Divinations, +2 Bluff, Diplomacy, & Sense Motive
2 | Cloisetered Cleric | Psion (seer) | Cleric 2 / Psion 2 | Fate, Knowledge, Mind | -
3 | Cloisetered Cleric | Psion (seer) | Cleric 3 / Psion 3 | Fate, Knowledge, Mind | -
4 | Church Inquisitor | Psion (seer) | Cleric 4 / Psion 4 | Fate, Inquisition, Knowledge, Mind | Detect Evil, +4 to Dispel checks
5 | Church Inquisitor | Psion (seer) | Cleric 5 / Psion 5 | Fate, Inquisition, Knowledge, Mind | Immune to Charm, Psion Bonus Feat
6 | Church Inquisitor | Psion (seer) | Cleric 6 / Psion 6 | Fate, Inquisition, Knowledge, Mind | Pierce Illusion
7 | Divine Oracle | Psion (seer) | Cleric 7 / Psion 7 | Fate, Inquisition, Knowledge, Mind, Oracle | Scry Bonus, +3 CL on Divinations (total)
8 | Divine Oracle | Psion (seer) | Cleric 8 / Psion 8 | Fate, Inquisition, Knowledge, Mind, Oracle | Prescient Sense, Trapsense +1
9 | Divine Oracle | Psion (seer) | Cleric 9 / Psion 9 | Fate, Inquisition, Knowledge, Mind, Oracle | Divination Enhancement, Imp. Uncanny Dodge
10 | Church Inquisitor | Psion (seer) | Cleric 10 / Psion 10 | Fate, Inquisition, Knowledge, Mind, Oracle | Pierce Disguise, Psion Bonus Feat
11 | Contemplative | Psion (seer) | Cleric 11 / Psion 11 | Dream, Fate, Inquisition, Knowledge, Mind, Oracle | Divine Health, Immune to Fear
12 | Church Inquisitor | Psion (seer) | Cleric 12 / Psion 12 | Dream, Fate, Inquisition, Knowledge, Mind, Oracle | Immune to Compuslsion
13 | Church Inquisitor | Psion (seer) | Cleric 13 / Psion 13 | Dream, Fate, Inquisition, Knowledge, Mind, Oracle | Force Shapechange
14 | Church Inquisitor | Psion (seer) | Cleric 14 / Psion 14 | Dream, Fate, Inquisition, Knowledge, Mind, Oracle | -
15 | Church Inquisitor | Psion (seer) | Cleric 15 / Psion 15 | Dream, Fate, Inquisition, Knowledge, Mind, Oracle | Immune to Possession, Psion Bonus Feat
16 | Church Inquisitor | Psion (seer) | Cleric 16 / Psion 16 | Dream, Fate, Inquisition, Knowledge, Mind, Oracle | Discern Lies 3/day
17 | Church Inquisitor | Psion (seer) | Cleric 17 / Psion 17 | Dream, Fate, Inquisition, Knowledge, Mind, Oracle | Learn the Truth 3/day
18 | Seeker of the Misty Isle | Psion (seer) | Cleric 18 / Psion 18 | Dream, Fate, Inquisition, Knowledge, Mind, Oracle, Travel | Proficient with all melee weapons and medium armor, Freedom of Movement: 3 rounds/day
19 | Lore Master | Psion (seer) | Cleric 19 / Psion 19 | Dream, Fate, Inquisition, Knowledge, Mind, Oracle, Travel | Secret (+2 Ref)
20 | Lore Master | Psion (seer) | Cleric 20 / Psion 20 | Dream, Fate, Inquisition, Knowledge, Mind, Oracle, Travel | Psion Bonus Feat[/table]

Final Base Attack Bonus: +12 (using fractional BAB)
Final Base Fortitude Save: +9 (using fractional saves and only counting the +2 good bonus once)
Final Base Reflex Save: +8 (using fractional saves and counting the +2 good bonus from Seeker of the Misty Isle)
Final Base Will Save: +12 (using fractional saves and only counting the +2 good bonus once)

Final Base Attack Bonus: +10 (using normal BAB)
Final Base Fortitude Save: +9 (using normal saves)
Final Base Reflex Save: +7 (using normal saves)
Final Base Will Save: +18 (using normal saves)

Required Feats
Skill Focus [Knowledge (religion)] by 6th level
Any three metamagic or item creation feats by 18th level

Required Skills
Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks by 3rd level
Knowledge (religion) 4 ranks by 3rd level
Spellcraft 4 ranks by 3rd level
Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks by 6th level
Knowledge (religion) 13 ranks by 10th level
Survival 8 ranks by 17th level
Knowledge (any other one) 10 ranks by 18th level

Suggested Feats
1) Extend Spell
3) Persistant Spell
5) Psion Bonus: Extend Power
6) Skill Focus [Knowledge (religion)]
9) Divine Metamagic (persistant spell)
10) Psion Bonus: Overchannel
12) Extra Turning
15) Extra Turning
15) Psion Bonus: Persistant Power
18) Extra Turning
20) Psion Bonus: Quicken Power or Expanded Power Knowledge

Suggested Skills
Knowledge (history) 5 ranks
Use Magic Device 23 ranks (due to class skill from Loremaster)

Suggested Equipment
Headband of Intelect +4 to gain access to 9th level powers (if boosting Wis with natural ability increases)
Or
Amulet of Wisdom +4 to gain access to 9th level cleric spells (if boosting Int with natural ability increases)
Nightsticks (if you feel like extra cheese)

Special Abilities to Note
Lore: From 2nd level on it is essentially a knowledge (everything) check with a bonus equal to your character level + 5 + any enhancements to Int.
Pierce Illusion: From 6th level on does not have to interact with an illusion to get a Will save, just has to see it.
Prescient Sense: From 8th level on has Evasion, but is not restricted by armor (useful if all power points are spent to persist powers before wearing armor)
Divination Enhancement: From 9th level gets to roll twice on divination truthfullness percentages, keeping the better roll.

Fun Spells to Persist
Foresight: Gain a permanent +2 insight bonus to AC and Reflex saving throws. You are never surprised, so can always act in the surprise round.
Dream Sight: You can scout just about anywhere and be almost undetectable. If you persist your detect spells and truesight first, then you can see auras, see all invisible/etheral things, as well as read the minds of those you are spying on.

Fun Powers to Persist
Second Chance: By 18th level you can Overchannel for a +3 bonus to ML (taking 5d8 damage which you can just heal right away) to persist this 5th level power. For the rest of the day you can now reroll one attack roll, skill check, saving throw, or ability check each round. Never worry about failure again.

[Magnor Criol]

I know that Fax's and Kurald's builds are so cheesy that mice will be attracted to my computer for the next five years simply for having them displayed on the screen, but I'm not gonna lie - the ability to cast spells from, well, anything does hold a mighty allure.


I'm going for the "Your DM Will Never Let This Build Into His Game" vote. :smallbiggrin:

Won't most of these builds qualify for that category? =p

[The Gilded Duke]

Gods in the Machine
Cheese Factor: 1
First Viable Level:3rd
First Optimum Level: 5th

Gods in the Machine was a former priest of the Becoming God. Followers say that the Becoming God made the Warforged soul and mind. In return, the Warforged should make the Becoming God a body. Gods in the Machine, or "Ego Whip" as he was known at the time was a proud Warforged. With his mastery of summoning and of shape shifting, he thought that he was the perfect body for the new god.

Other followers of the becoming God were not convinced. "Ego Whip" tried to summon in the becoming God anyway. It didn't work. Ego Whip could summon any matter of creature, but never a God.

It was obvious, there were no creatures above the various elementals and devils, angels and coatls. They were the only Gods. He was their master. Ego Whip discarded his old name and became Gods in the Machine.

Strategy:
Gods can summon nearly any non-unique creature in the game. Gods also has multiple methods of polymorphing into any creature with up to 20 hit dice. Gods can gain up to three of the creature's supernatural abilities while in that form. Gods can then use Fusion on himself and one of his summoned creatures giving him a total of both of their hit points, the best ability scores of both, all racial features, all class features, all spell and psionic and truename abilities and so on.

Gods also has a single outsider or elemental cohort, whose combined ECL cannot be greater then his own. I haven't yet found a specific creature that might work best as a cohort, however there are plenty of options.

Whenever Gods summons an Evil Outsider he can do so at a discount price, with the summoned creature augmented, automatically extended, and getting an additional creature with no additional cost.

Gods has a contingent Planar Ally spell set up to summon a Dybbuk or other creature with immunity to acid. If Gods then polymorphs into a War Troll and Fusions the Dybbuk he has regeneration that cannot be overcome.

One of Gods favorite forms is actually that of the Overseer. Gods uses his Metamorphic Transfer to gain The Overseer's Eye Rays ability. Gods can use each of the thirteen eye rays in a round as a free action. Only five eye rays can be targeted at a single opponent. The two most important Eye Rays are reactive spell turning and reactive spell immunity.

Gods uses Sense Danger to allow himself to Temporal Accelerate to give himself two turns at the beginning of combat regardless of who wins initiative. It is also important to note that when he shapeshifts, his psi-crystal can shapeshift as well.

Abilities:
Psion Egoist powers 19th / 20th level caster:
Metamorphosis
Greater Metamorphosis
Fusion
Schism
Astral Construct
Sense Danger (Act out of Initiative Order Cheese)
Temporal Acceleration

Divine Spells from multiple spell lists 19th level caster
Summon Monster
Planar Ally
Planar Binding
Nature's Ally
Gate
Shapechange



Psiforged (Warforged) Egoist 10 / Slayer 10 // Archivist 10 / Thaumaturgist 5/ Malconvoker 5

First Ten Levels:

Egoist 10 / Slayer 10 D6 HD

BAB: +5
Fort: +7
Ref +3
Will +7

Skills: (4+Int)x13
Class Skills: Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Search, Spellcraft, Knowledge, Profession, Psicraft, Autohypnosis, Balance, Heal

Feats:
1st Psiforged Body
3rd Track
6th Expanded Knowledge: Psionic Repair Damage
9th Metamorphic Transfer

1st Psion Bonus: Overchannel
5th Psion Bonus: Metamorphic Transfer
10th Psion Bonus: Expanded Knowledge Schism

Scribe Scroll, Still Mind
Archivist 10th Level bonus Feat: Spell Focus Conjuration

Necessary Skill Ranks: Knowledge Dungeoneering

88 Base Power Points, 21 Powers Known, 5th Level Powers
Up to 5th Level Divine Spells.

===========================================
11-15 Slayer // Thaumaturge d8 hd

BAB: +10
+8 Fort
+4 Ref
+11 Will

Skills: (4+Int)x5
Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Knowledge Dungeoneering, Knowledge Religion, Knowledge The Planes, Listen, Psicraft, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival, Profession, Spellcraft


Base PP 147, 25 Powers Known, Max Power Level 7
8th Level Divine Spells

Improved Ally, Augment Summoning, Extended Summoning, Contingent Conjuration, Planar Cohort, Favored Enemy +4, Enemy Sense, Brain Nausea, Lucid Buffer

Feats:
Expanded Knowledge: Astral Construct
Metamorphic Transfer

Skills Required: Bluff 4, Knowledge the Planes 4, Celestial, Infernal
=================================================
16-20 Slayer // Malconvoker 5 d8 hd

BAB: +15
Fort:+9
Ref:+5
Will:+15

Skills (4+int)x5
Bluff, Craft, Concentration, Disguise, Knowledge Arcana, Knowledge Religion, Knowledge the Planes, Knowledge Dungeoneering, Listen, Psicraft, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival, Profession, Spellcraft

Favored Enemy +8, Blast Feedback, Cerebral Immunity, Breach Power Resistance, Deceptive Summons (Fury), Unrestricted Conjuration, Planar Binding, Skill Focus Bluff, Fiendish Legion

18th Level: Psi-crystal Affinity

311 Base PP, 34 Powers Known, Max Power Level 9
9th Level Divine Spells

[Kurald Galain]

Kurald, does Totemist count as "arcane caster level 1st"? Because that's a prerequisite for Precocious Apprentice. If not, is there any reason you couldn't swap the Totemist and Wizard levels?

Not really, but Totemist has better hit points and skill points for level one. I'll swap them around, good point.

(edit) turns out that there's a spare feat, so it does hit the Perfected Map level of utterances as well. Also, turns out I get an extra metamagic feat, and can max out UMD skill.

[Illiterate Scribe]

Duke of URL - would variants that WotC has published on their website be justified? I'm considering a build of surprising erudition.

[Nebo_]

Duke of URL - would variants that WotC has published on their website be justified? I'm considering a build of surprising erudition.

Spell to Power is pure cheese. A Gouda nominee in the making.

[Illiterate Scribe]

Spell to Power is pure cheese. A Gouda nominee in the making.

I believe that there's also a Power to Spell trick out there somewhere. :smallamused:

[Ganurath]

Spell to Power is pure cheese. A Gouda nominee in the making.If the erudition was surprising, how did you know what it was going to be without him saying?

[Swiftblu]

To Nalin, the world is a young child's sand castle waiting to be knocked over. She studied for years in both schools of arcane magic and psionic power, refining her ability to blow things up as quickly and loudly as possible. Her only goal is to disassemble the multiverse before she dies. She spends her time researching both ways to annihilate all that exists and a way for her to attain immortality, with the occasional foray into gambling.

Name: Cebremancer on Meth

Build:

Nalin, Chaotic Evil Gray Elf

1 Wizard // Psychic Warrior
2 Wizard // Psion (Kineticist)
3 Wizard // Psion
4 Wizard // Psion
5 Wizard // Psion
6 Swiftblade // Wizard
7 Swiftblade // Psion
8 Swiftblade // Psion
9 Swiftblade // Wizard
10 Swiftblade // Psion
11 Swiftblade // Anarchic Initiate
12 Swiftblade // Anarchic Initiate
13 Swiftblade // Anarchic Initiate
14 Swiftblade // Anarchic Initiate
15 Swiftblade // Anarchic Initiate
16 Fatespinner // Anarchic Initiate
17 Fatespinner // Anarchic Initiate
18 Fatespinner // Anarchic Initiate
19 Fatespinner // Anarchic Initiate
20 Fatespinner // Anarchic Initiate

Features:
Nalin gets 9th level spells and powers (casts as a 17th level Wizard, manifests as a 17th level Psion). Can cast Haste as a free action, and use it in it's old, broken form. Gets Wild Surge +2, can tear open a hole to Limbo, and gets some Fatespinning fun. No real power breaks, Good BAB and hit points. All-in-all, an uber-blaster.

Weaknesses:
Useless in an Anti-Magic Field.

Statistics:

Initial Racial Leveling Items
STR 08 06 06 06
DEX 12 14 14 20
CON 15 13 14 20
INT 18 20 24 30
WIS 08 08 08 08
CHA 08 08 08 08

Hit Dice:1d8+4d4+15d6 = 67
67+5*20=167 HP

220,000gp
64,000 +6 Headband of Intellect
64,000 +6 Gloves of Dexterity
64,000 +6 Amulet of Health
-------
28,000gp

[Draz74]

Bump, to announce that my Dark Orator build is now pretty much complete.

I may have to quickly pop off another Tome of Magic Theurge build too. Let's see if Gestalt can save the Truenamer from sucking, huh?

EDIT: Yikes, crap. I must have accidentally hit "Edit" instead of "Quote" when I tried to write out my Truenamer Theurge. As a result, my Dark Orator is, again, nowhere to be found on the thread. :smallfrown: I'll try to get time to re-write it tonight ...

[Draz74]

Here goes ... the Truenamer Theurge, an excellent counterpart to the Dark Orator, flavor-wise.

Name: Righteous Threatener
Build: Human Truenamer 20//Archivist 6/Marshal 1/Loremaster 10/Exemplar 1/Sacred Exorcist
Starting Ability Scores: STR 8, DEX 10, CON 12, INT 18, WIS 8, CHA 14
Cheese Points: 2 (Marshal dip, Exemplar dip)
[B]Minimum Playable Level: 1
Break Points:

"Back, foul spawn of nightmares! I not only know all your dark secrets, but I know how to tell the universe that it should hate you for them!"

Level 1: Truenamer 1//Archivist 1 - Scribe Scroll, Skill Focus (Knowledge (The Planes)), Skill Focus (Truespeak)
Level 2: Truenamer 2//Archivist 2
Level 3: Truenamer 3//Archivist 3 - Craft Wondrous Item
Level 4: Truenamer 4//Archivist 4
Level 5: Truenamer 5//Archivist 5
Level 6: Truenamer 6//Marshal 1 - Extend Utterance, {Motivate Intelligence aura}
Level 7: Truenamer 7//Archivist 6
Level 8: Truenamer 8//Sacred Exorcist 1
Level 9: Truenamer 9//Sacred Exorcist 2 - Craft Rod
Level 10: Truenamer 10//Loremaster 1
Level 11: Truenamer 11//Exemplar 1
Level 12: Truenamer 12//Loremaster 2 - Quicken Utterance
Level 13: Truenamer 13//Loremaster 3
Level 14: Truenamer 14//Loremaster 4
Level 15: Truenamer 15//Loremaster 5 -
Level 16: Truenamer 16//Loremaster 6
Level 17: Truenamer 17//Loremaster 7
Level 18: Truenamer 18//Loremaster 8 -
Level 19: Truenamer 19//Loremaster 9
Level 20: Truenamer 20//Loremaster 10

So. The Righteous Threatener is an 18th level divine caster. He has no bonus spells, but has an excellent (or perfect, even) selection of spells on his spell list, and can cast some powerful spells as lower-level versions of themselves, and has good save DCs and so on.

He can then supplement his divine casting with full, 20-level Truenamer abilities. His all-important Truespeak checks are helped in reaching ridiculously high DCs (at later levels) by: adding his Charisma bonus to Truespeak checks (and Knowledge checks); using Exemplar class abilities; using any Divine spells that increase skill checks; and using whatever custom items he can craft himself.

Some of the synergy between the two sides, besides the INT SADependency, is the Archivist's ability to cast Truenaming-related divine spells found in Tome of Magic with ease.

Pick Utterances Known from the small number of utterances that can't be emulated by any divine spell in existence.

Great Will save, medium Fort save, poor Ref save, medium BAB, mediocre HP.

If I have time (unlikely), I'll work on picking feats for my leftover feat slots, and so on. In the meantime, the basics of this build are already well in-place.

This isn't the most powerful build I could enter. The most powerful build would ... frankly not involve Truenaming in the first place. Or at least, it would be a Wizard//Truenamer with all kinds of wizard PrCs. Or, at least, if it's an Archivist//Truenamer, it should focus on its Archivist side (high Wisdom, no caster levels lost, and feats that focus on casting). But I wanted this build to be primarily a Truenamer, as much as possible; and if nothing else I think it has fantastic flavor, Truenamers and Archivists both being the knowledge-lust-motivated adventurers that they are.

[Chronos]

Well, I think The Booky has "Party Animal" all sewed up, and competition is furious for the Gouda award, so that only leaves two categories in which I can hope to compete. So, I present:

Presto the Digitator
Build: Half-elf Bard 1/Adept 1/Half Elf Paragon 1/Human Paragon 2/Spellthief 1/Geomancer 1/Assassin 1/Geomancer 4/Arcane Trickster 1/Loremaster 1/Arcane Trickster 1/Loremaster 1/Arcane Trickster 1/Loremaster 1/Arcane Trickster 1/Wizard 1 // Half-Elf Paragon 1/Human Paragon 1/Ranger 4/Half-Elf Paragon 1/Fighter 1/Dragon Disciple 1/Arcane Duelist 1/Psychic Warrior 1/Eldritch Knight 1/Blackguard 1/Paladin of Slaughter 3/Lich 4
Cheese Points: Level Dips, Ignoring Multiclass Penalties, Simultaneous PrCs
Minimum Playable Level: 1
Power Break: Level 0, at which point the build is about as powerful as it's ever going to get.

{table=head]ECL | Left Class | Right Class | Feats | Abilities | Casts as
1 | Bard 1 | Half-Elf Paragon 1 | Flaw: Quarter Elf, Flaw: Arcane Fatigue, Precocious Apprentice (Whispering Wind), Dodge, Mobility, Fiery Spell | Bonus Feat, Divided Ancestry, elven vision, bardic music, bardic knowledge | Bard 1
2 | Adept 1 | Human Paragon 1 | | Adaptive Learning | Bard 1, Adept 1
3 | Half-Elf Paragon 2 (+adept) | Ranger 1 | Track, Blistering Spell | Persuasion, Favored Enemy: gnome, Wild Empathy | Bard 1, Adept 2
4 | Human Paragon 2 (+adept) | Ranger 2 | Craft Wondrous Item, Two Weapon Fighting | Bonus Feat, Combat Style: Two-Weapon | Bard 1, Adept 3
5 | Human Paragon 3 (+adept) | Ranger 3 | Endurance | Con +2 | Bard 1, Adept 4
6 | Spellthief 1 | Ranger 4 | Master Spellthief | Sneak Attack +1d6, steal spells, trapfinding, Animal Companion | Bard 1 (CL 2), Adept 4, Ranger 4
7 | Geomancer 1 (+spellthief) | PsiWar 1| Power Attack | Bonus Feat | Bard 1 (CL 3), Adept 4, Ranger 4, PsiWar 1
8 | Assassin 1 | Fighter 1 | Cleave | Sneak Attack +2d6, Death Attack, Poison Use | Bard 1 (CL 4), Adept 4, Ranger 4, PsiWar 1, Assassin 1 (CL 4)
9 | Geomancer 2 (+adept) | Dragon Disciple 1 | Skill Focus: Knowledge: Local: The East 23rd-24th Block of Harvard Ave., Cleveland, OH | Natural Armor Increase, Bonus Spell | Bard 1 (CL 4), Adept 5, Ranger 4, PsiWar 1, Assassin 1 (CL 4)
10 | Geomancer 3 (+adept) | Arcane Duelist 1 | | Chosen Weapon, Enchant Weapon +1 | Bard 1 (CL 4), Adept 6, Ranger 4, PsiWar 1, Assassin 1 (CL 4)
11 | Geomancer 4 (+adept) | Half-Elf Paragon 3 | | Con +2 | Bard 1 (CL 4), Adept 7, Ranger 4, PsiWar 1, Assassin 1 (CL 4)
12 | Geomancer 5 (+adept) | Eldritch Knight 1 | Improved Sunder, Practiced Spellcaster (bard) | | Bard 1 (CL 8), Adept 8, Ranger 4, PsiWar 1, Assassin 1 (CL 4)
13 | Arcane Trickster 1 (+spellthief) | Blackguard 1 | | Aura of Evil, Detect Good, Ranged Legerdemain | Bard 1 (CL 9), Adept 8, Ranger 4, PsiWar 1, Assassin 1 (CL 5), Blackguard 1
14 | Loremaster 1 (+spellthief) | Paladin of Slaughter 1 | | Instant Mastery (Craft: Basket), Smite Good 1/day | Bard 1 (CL 10), Adept 8, Ranger 4, PsiWar 1, Assassin 1 (CL 6), Blackguard 1, Spellthief 4 (CL 6)
15 | Arcane Trickster 2 (+assassin) | Paladin of Slaughter 2 | Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Gnome Hooked Hammer| Divine Grace, Deadly Touch, Sneak Attack +3d6 | Bard 1 (CL 11), Adept 8, Ranger 4, PsiWar 1, Assassin 1 (CL 7), Blackguard 1, Spellthief 4 (CL 7)
16 | Loremaster 2 (+blackguard) | Paladin of Slaughter 3 | | Debilitating Aura, Divine Health, Lore | Bard 1 (CL 11), Adept 8, Ranger 4, PsiWar 1, Assassin 1 (CL 7), Blackguard 2, Spellthief 4 (CL 7)
17 | Arcane Trickster 3 (+ranger) | Lich LA 1 | | Impromptu Sneak Attack, Lich Qualities | Bard 1 (CL 11), Adept 8, Ranger 5, PsiWar 1, Assassin 1 (CL 7), Blackguard 2, Spellthief 4 (CL 7)
18 | Loremaster 3 (+paladin) | Lich LA 2 | Spell Hand | Secret Health | Bard 1 (CL 11), Adept 8, Ranger 5, PsiWar 1, Assassin 1 (CL 7), Blackguard 2, Spellthief 4 (CL 7), Paladin 4
19 | Arcane Trickster 4 (+paladin) | Lich LA 3 | | Sneak Attack +4d6 | Bard 1 (CL 11), Adept 8, Ranger 5, PsiWar 1, Assassin 1 (CL 7), Blackguard 2, Spellthief 4 (CL 7), Paladin 5
20 | Wizard 1 | Lich LA 4 | Scribe Scroll | Call Familiar| Bard 1 (CL 12), Adept 8, Ranger 5, PsiWar 1, Assassin 1 (CL 8), Blackguard 2, Spellthief 4 (CL 8), Paladin 5, Wizard 1 (CL 8)[/table]

At every level, Presto gains spellcasting ability (new or increasing previous) in at least one class, and his spellcasting classes include both arcane and divine (including a prestige class which requires both arcane and divine casting), making him a valid candidate for this competition. The Quarter-Elf flaw removes most of the benefits of being a half-elf, without granting all of the benefits of just being a human in the first place, and Arcane Fatigue makes it difficult to use what spells he has. Both of his metamagic feats are applicable to only a single spell (Burning Hands, as an adept). His ability score increases from his Paragon levels both go into Con, which will become wasted upon becoming a lich. Precocious Apprentice gives him the second-level arcane spell needed for Geomancer (notably, he doesn't have any first-level arcane spells until level 8). Geomancer lets him treat his Adept spells as arcane, allowing him to meet the "at least one third-level arcane spell" requirement for Arcane Trickster and Loremaster. Master Spellthief means, among other things, that all of his arcane classes (Bard, Spellthief, Assassin, and Wizard) count as CL 8, and Practiced Spellcaster further raises his Bard CL enough to qualify for lichdom. The Spell Hand feat, taken at level 18, gives him 1/day each use of Mage Hand, Open/Close, and Tensor's Floating Disk, in case he runs out of real spells. Finally, at level 20, he gains a level of wizard, far too late to do him any good. In combat, the spell he's most likely to use is Longstrider, from the ranger list, because really, his only hope is to run away as fast as possible.

[Ganurath]

*snip*...OW. That hurt my head. Bad.

[Draz74]

OK, both my ode-to-Tome-of-Magic entries are now up in reasonably complete form. Let me know if I forgot any critical details or explanations.


Well, I think The Booky has "Party Animal" all sewed up,

You think so? I think "best theurge" would be hard to win away from him, but "party animal," not so much. No denying that a Wizard//Archivist (etc.) is powerful, but I'm not so sure it's fun.


and competition is furious for the Gouda award,
No kidding!


so that only leaves two categories in which I can hope to compete. So, I present:

Presto the Digitator
Build: Half-elf Bard 1/Adept 1/Half Elf Paragon 1/Human Paragon 2/Spellthief 1/Geomancer 1/Assassin 1/Geomancer 4/Arcane Trickster 1/Loremaster 1/Arcane Trickster 1/Loremaster 1/Arcane Trickster 1/Loremaster 1/Arcane Trickster 1/Wizard 1 // Half-Elf Paragon 1/Human Paragon 1/Ranger 4/Half-Elf Paragon 1/Fighter 1/Dragon Disciple 1/Arcane Duelist 1/Psychic Warrior 1/Eldritch Knight 1/Blackguard 1/Paladin of Slaughter 3/Lich 4

Wow.

... wow.

... yeah, I think I need to look at the table, further down, to have any hope whatsoever of comprehending that mess!

Not much doubt which award you're going for, hum? Way to be focused on your goals.

... although history seems to indicate that you might have had a better shot if your went with some kind of Anthropomorphic Animal, you know? Weasel might have been a good choice.

[Duke of URL]

Duke of URL - would variants that WotC has published on their website be justified? I'm considering a build of surprising erudition.

If WotC has published it for 3.5, it's fair game. Behold, the power of cheese, however.

[Illiterate Scribe]

HAHAHAHAHA!

Ahem, that was me just coming up with possibly the most broken use of persistent spell ever. It probably fits better into the 'Invocation Vocation' challenge, though; I'll save it till then.

[Tokiko Mima]

Name: "Sapphire Seductress"
Build: Succubus Favored Soul 3/ Contemplative 3/ Incarnate 3/ Sapphrire Heirarch 5// Warlock 4/ Hellfire Warlock 3/ Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7
Starting Ability Scores: STR 14+2 (16), DEX 14+2 (16), CON 10+2 (12), INT 10+6 (16), WIS 10+4 (14), CHA 16+16 (32)
Cheese Points: 1,000,007 (Flaws x2, PrC's on both side x7, and Dual Progression class x1)
Minimum Playable Level: 7
Power Break: 13 (Hellfire levels)

{table=head]ECL | Left Class | Right Class | Feats | Ability Increase | Special abilities
1 | Succubus | Level Adjustment | Flaw: Skill Focus(Spellcraft), Flaw: Spell Focus(Abjuration), True Believer | |
2 | Succubus | Level Adjustment | | |
3 | Succubus | Level Adjustment | Spell Focus(Conjuration) | |
4 | Succubus | Level Adjustment | | Charisma +1 |
5 | Succubus | Level Adjustment | | |
6 | Succubus | Level Adjustment | Supernatural Transformation(GT) | |
7 | Favored Soul | Warlock | | | Favored Soul Spellcasting, Warlock Invocations
8 | Favored Soul | Warlock | | Charisma +1 |
9 | Favored Soul | Warlock | Extend Spell, Weapon Focus(Deity) | |
10 | Contemplative | Warlock | | | Divine Health, Bonus domain
11 | Contemplative | Hellfire Warlock | | | Hellfire Blast +2d6, Slippery Mind
12 | Contemplative | Hellfire Warlock | Persistant Spell | Charisma +1 | Hellfire Blast +2d6, Hellfire Shield, Divine Wholeness
13 | Incarnate | Hellfire Warlock | | | Hellfire Blast +2d6
14 | Incarnate | Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | | |
15 | Incarnate | Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | Divine Metamagic: Persistant | |
16 | Sapphire Heirarch | Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | | Charisma +1 |
17 | Sapphire Heirarch | Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | | |
18 | Sapphire Heirarch | Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | Power Attack | |
19 | Sapphire Heirarch | Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | | |
20 | Sapphire Heirarch | Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | | Charisma +1 | [/table]

Offense: More of a fun defensive build (and less super optimized killer), this builds offense is keyed off it's melee attack power which is relatively high thanks to Favored Soul and Outsider Hit Dice's base attack bonus. Divine Metamagic allows buffs to be applied for much longer than normally possible.

Defense: Initiate of the sevenfold veils much? I don't see a need to cover defense much beyond that.

Weaknesses: It's not a full caster, so it's always going to suffer for that. Caster level is innately 20 for Warlock, and 17 for Favored Soul and can be buffed much higher.


I'm going for the "Party animal" vote with this one. :smalltongue:

[Chronos]

You think so? I think "best theurge" would be hard to win away from him, but "party animal," not so much. No denying that a Wizard//Archivist (etc.) is powerful, but I'm not so sure it's fun.I have no idea how fun it would be to play that build, but it seems pretty well designed to buff and heal everybody else in the party. Everyone likes being buffed, and everyone likes being healed.

The best in show award, there's still plenty of time left, if anyone actually tries for it. And there are a lot of ways a build might potentially be "best". So I'll wait until Brunhilde's solo to make a judgment on that.

And I've noticed a couple of errors in Presto, so I'm off to edit that now.

[Beren One-Hand]

The best in show award, there's still plenty of time left, if anyone actually tries for it. And there are a lot of ways a build might potentially be "best". So I'll wait until Brunhilde's solo to make a judgment on that.

Since this is my first time participating, I'm not sure what categories there are... I just had this idea of the ultimate oracle floating around for a while, so I thought I'd give this a whirl.

If anyone would care to critique my creation, I'd be most glad.

[Duke of URL]

ENTRIES CLOSED - Please do not add or revise entries after this point.

NOW VOTING: Please vote in-thread (this is to keep my mailbox under control)

The entries submitted by the deadline are: "Touched By A Devil" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3936208&postcount=2)
"All Sorts of Creepy" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3937102&postcount=3)
"The Booky" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3938311&postcount=4)
"Nathan" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3939466&postcount=5)
"Dark Anime" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3940146&postcount=9)
"Holy Avenger" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3941099&postcount=13)
"The Dark Orator" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3941785&postcount=16)
"The Urge To Merge Theurges" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3941852&postcount=18)
"Two Heads Are Better Than One" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3942146&postcount=21)
"Aethon Frost" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3944749&postcount=37)
"The Omnicaster" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3945177&postcount=38)
"You can't hide from me..." (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3946305&postcount=42)
"Gods in the Machine" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3946467&postcount=44)
"Cebremancer on Meth" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3955791&postcount=50)
"Righteous Threatener" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3957614&postcount=52)
"Presto the Digitator" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3958522&postcount=53)
"Sapphire Seductress" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3960103&postcount=58)

Please vote in any or all of the following categories:

Top Theurge - The build that best satisfies the challenge goals

Theurgic Balance - The build the shows the best balance and synergy between the two chosen disciplines

Huh? - The most unusual theurge

Party Animal - The build you'd most like to either play or have in your party

Gouda - The build most likely to be disallowed by your DM (or you, if you're the DM) on the grounds of extreme cheese

[Squash Monster]

Top Theurge: Aethon Frost. Top-level abilities in two classes, complete with lots of prestige-class based pimpin'.
Theurgic Balance: All sorts of Creepy. Two completely different things, equal parts each, good flavor synergy between them despite being different.
Huh: Presto the Digitator. Never mind how weak the build is. It's kinda funny.
Party Animal: You Can't Hide From Me... Because having a diviner on your side is always fun.
Gouda: Omnicaster. Running two prestige classes at once. Using dual progression classes. Using two dual progression classes. Running two dual progression prestige classes at once. Yeah. Cheese.

Once again, not voting for myself.

[Chronos]

Hm, that was quicker than I realized... I had intended to go back and make a couple more changes to Presto. Specifically, I was thinking of replacing the fighter level with Slayer (favored enemy couatls, of course). With that change, the build would be pure: Every class would either provide spellcasting, advance spellcasting, or require spellcasting.

[Nebo_]

Top Theurge - Aethon Frost. Full psionics, full divine and awesome melee to boot.

Theurgic Balance - Booky.

Huh? - Presto the Digitator. Way to pick lots of classes that don't help each other at all.

Party Animal - Aethon Frost. Who wouldn't like to have persisted Recitation and various other party buffs?

Gouda - Dark Anime. Arcane Swordsage is one of the most broken and cheesy things ever to be printed. It is ambiguous and poorly thought out. I can't believe someone actually tried to put it in a build.

[Beren One-Hand]

Since I don't have access to most of the stuff used to create the other entries I'm abstaining from several categories, as it wouldn't be fair to just pick from the ones I know about.

That being said I have to say that the Huh? award can only go to Presto the Digitator... Any build that takes Spell Hand at level 18 in case he runs out of real spells is just plain weird

While it is a close race between The Urge to Merge and the Omnicaster for the Gouda award, I can only vote for the th Omnicaster. Both have two prestige classes at once as well as using dual progression classes, but the fact that the Omnicaster uses various tricks to qualify for the dual progression classes without actually having the spells/abilities available is just pure cheese.

[Draz74]

Top Theurge - Aethon Frost. Full psionics, full divine and awesome melee to boot.

Um ... technically, it doesn't have full psionics or full divine casting.
Only 7th level powers. 9th level spells, but only a caster level of 18.

Still a strong build? Yeah (though I don't think it will be getting my top vote). But not in the way you were accrediting it.

[TheFlamingHobo]

Um ... technically, it doesn't have full psionics or full divine casting.
Only 7th level powers. 9th level spells, but only a caster level of 18.

Still a strong build? Yeah (though I don't think it will be getting my top vote). But not in the way you were accrediting it.

Actually Ardent maximum power level known is based on manifester level so Practiced Manifester gives Aethon 8th and 9th level powers. He has a cleric CL of 18 a Warmind ML of 5 and an Ardent ML of 19.

[Nebo_]

Um ... technically, it doesn't have full psionics or full divine casting.
Only 7th level powers. 9th level spells, but only a caster level of 18.


Close enough. He has access to 9th level powers by virtue of a really weird manifesting system for the Ardent. If you have high enough ML, then you can manifest it, regardless of what your Ardent level is.

Edit: Ninja'd

[Chronos]

My votes:

Top theurge: Nathan. I feel a sort of kinship to someone seeking to emulate couatls, and combining Rainbow Servant with a full-list spontaneous caster is a clever trick (although I probably would have used Beguiler instead of Warmage).

Theurgic balance: All Kinds of Creepy. I like how the two halves are so similar in flavor, while giving completely different capabilities.

Huh?: Holy Avenger, because I have no idea what that build is supposed to be. Near as I can figure, he's trying to take the 6th and 7th levels of Warlock without taking the first five, and I'm not sure how an always lawful good creature gets any warlock levels at all.

Party Animal: Booky. The character looks like it was built explicitly for purposes of buffing and healing party members.

Gouda: Dark Anime. Yeah, the mixed dual-progression entries were cheesier by the points, but they also weren't trying to get away with it.

[avr]

My 2c:

Best Theurge: Nathan. Takes the warmages inflexibility & blows it away very effectively. Persistent spell without DMM cheese. I like.

Theurgic balance: Righteous threatener. It makes the Truenamer work! Well, probably. Synergy between two very different classes.

Huh?: Presto, the saddest lich in the world. He probably got the cash to make a phylactery from a good church which wanted to make an example of why people shouldn't seek to become liches.

PA: Booky. What Chronos said. Rather a lot of the other entries are Eeeevil or cheese competitors, too.

Gouda: Omnicaster. OK, it's trying for the cheese award. I think in this case it should get it.

[Draz74]

Thanks for the vote avr ... although personally I think Dark Orator is by far the superior of my two entries. I don't know why he's not getting any attention. People just don't know or appreciate Tome of Magic stuff? Oh well.

Top Theurge - The Booky. Tough to beat Archivist//Wizard, with DMM cheese, good PrCs, and a focus on buffing the party.

Theurgic Balance - Aethon Frost. The Ardent is just a classy ... class. I wish this wasn't yet another DMM Persist build, though. I got tired of reading this same trick on build after build.

Huh? - Presto of course ... not that one more vote matters anymore in this category anyway.

Party Animal - Nathan. Good flexibility, and I've never played either an OA Shaman nor a Warmage, so it would be fun to try.

Gouda - The Urge to Merge Theurges. It beats the other two Honorable Mentions (Omnicaster and Dark Anime) strictly on the basis of its catchy name.

Honorable mention - You Can't Hide From Me. Great flavor, with both sides specializing in "knowledge" abilities. Too bad it's MAD, which is a great sin in Gestalt theurge optimization; and also that it's yet another DMM Persist type.

[Talic]

My votes:
Huh?: Holy Avenger, because I have no idea what that build is supposed to be. Near as I can figure, he's trying to take the 6th and 7th levels of Warlock without taking the first five


Levels 1-5 are taken care of on the other side of Gestahlt at earlier levels.

[Chronos]

Ah, didn't notice that before. It still leaves the question of how a lammasu gained a class that requires chaotic or evil alignment, though.

Meanwhile, I've done some digging on it, and it turns out that Rainbow Servant only gives 6/10 spellcasting progression, so I'm suddenly not sure how Nathan gets level 9 spells as a Warmage. It looks like he might be trying to double-up his progression in the last four levels, gaining +1 casting each from Archmage and Warmage (which doesn't work). The build could still be salvaged, though, at the cost of a little cheese, by putting Warmage levels opposite Rainbow Servant at RS levels 1, 4, 7, and 10, and then going Shaman // Archmage for the last four levels, instead of Archmage // Warmage (giving total spellcasting as Warmage (including cleric, good, law, and air) 20, Shaman 16).

[Overlord]

Nice builds, everyone!
Votes:

Top Theurge: Dark Anime- I dunno why, exactly, but I just liked the build.

Theurgic Balance: Aethon Frost- Nice fluff synergy, and the build is quite playable.

Huh?: Presto the Digitator- It's cherrypicking classes to the max! That's awesome. Every contest needs at least one Nup-Nup style entry.

Party Animal: Dark Orator- Tough call here, but I like the binder/bard thing.

Gouda: Omnicaster- For obvious reasons.

Lol, sorry about the quad-post. Forum lag is annoying.

[Duke of URL]

As I failed to put a timeline on the voting, let's say it's open until noon PST on Tuesday the 26th.

[Kurald Galain]

As I failed to put a timeline on the voting, let's say it's open until noon PST on Tuesday the 26th.

So? Are you going to post results, or something?

[Duke of URL]

Yes, but I've been busy. Thanks to all 6 folks who actually bothered to vote.

Top Theurge: Nathan (2/6, wins tiebreaker [my vote] over Aethon Frost)

Theurgic Balance: All Sorts of Creepy (2/6, wins tiebreaker [my vote] over Aethon Frost)

Huh?: Presto the Digitator (5/6)

Party Animal: The Booky (2/6)

Gouda: The Omnicaster (3/6)