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View Full Version : Flavor and mechanics-wise, who is best for exalted vows?



Frosty
2008-02-14, 01:59 PM
If you had to build a character with who would get (for free, at char-gen), Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, and Vow of Non-violence, what kind of character would would build for it, both flavors-wise and mechanics-wise? Assume that the Vow of Poverty is loose enough to let you own basic gear like a musical instrument, divine focus, or a spellbook, etc if the gear is instrumental to your class abilities.

My vote is for a Beguiler or Bard. They don't rely a whole bunch on gear, and the Vows will help a lot with the save DCs. And hey, Beguilers already specialize at getting past encounters non-violently. They've only got the non-lethal forms of blasting, and both Bards and Beguilers also make great Faces so they can diplo-cheese out of many situations.

valadil
2008-02-14, 02:08 PM
I see any of those vows as being exceptionally lawful. I don't know if you actually have to be lawful to take them, but it just doesn't seem chaotic to me to swear off violence and actually stick to it. As bards can't be lawful by RAW, I just don't see them taking these vows. Beguilers don't strike me as especially lawful either.

I'm not saying it doesn't work, but you need some actual backstory instead of generic bard #4 who just so happens to oppose vioence. Maybe a hippie bard?

Aside from non violence, vows have always struck me as a very monkly set of feats.

Frosty
2008-02-14, 02:20 PM
Hippe Bard backstories practically write themselves :smallbiggrin:

And it doesn't have to be lawful. It can be a set of personal convictions. Much like how Paladins of Freedom have their convictions about personal freedom and rights.

Miles Invictus
2008-02-14, 02:42 PM
Freelance diplomat. Walks the earth, ending wars, making peace.

Refrains from personal nouns.

dyslexicfaser
2008-02-14, 02:44 PM
Mechanically, druids get the most mileage out of vow of poverty because they keep those bonuses with them when they wildshape. It can get pretty ugly. And by 'ugly' I mean 'so awesome it hurts'.

If you already have the vow of non-violence, work towards Apostle of Peace. They get some good stuff.

Fax Celestis
2008-02-14, 02:44 PM
Mechanically, Incarnates, Druids, and Totemists make the best of Vow of Poverty.

Starbuck_II
2008-02-14, 02:53 PM
Mechanically, Incarnates, Druids, and Totemists make the best of Vow of Poverty.

Binders are pretty good too, but you need Feat: Ignore Special Requirements to get some Vestiges.

Frosty
2008-02-14, 03:34 PM
True, Druids get a lot of mileage, but I'm not sure how well Druids mesh with Voe of Non-violence.

SadisticFishing
2008-02-14, 03:38 PM
I once had a player with all those vows in one of my campaigns, his character was pretty awesome - though the group hated him. Violent peoples, they were.

Illumian Sorcerer 4/Monk 2/Paladin 2/Apostle of Peace 2/Mystic Theurge 10 (not quite in this order)

At the time, Ur-Priest + Mystic Theurge didn't seem so cheesy to me, so why not allow AoP + MT? Possibly a mistake, but having one Good character in the group was awesome.

It gets: 7th level sorcerer spells, 9th level Apostle spells, charisma to AC and saves (get Ascetic Mage), and a LOT of Illumian sigils, all of them, I think.

Tokiko Mima
2008-02-14, 04:14 PM
If you had to build a character with who would get (for free, at char-gen), Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, and Vow of Non-violence, what kind of character would would build for it, both flavors-wise and mechanics-wise? Assume that the Vow of Poverty is loose enough to let you own basic gear like a musical instrument, divine focus, or a spellbook, etc if the gear is instrumental to your class abilities.

My vote is for a Beguiler or Bard. They don't rely a whole bunch on gear, and the Vows will help a lot with the save DCs. And hey, Beguilers already specialize at getting past encounters non-violently. They've only got the non-lethal forms of blasting, and both Bards and Beguilers also make great Faces so they can diplo-cheese out of many situations.

I'm going to have to go with Druid with Vow of Poverty. Every other class benefits from their magic items a great deal. Druids are the only class that spends a large portion of their time (Wild Shape) unable to access magic items, so when magic items are disallowed away Druid is the only class that doesn't take as much of a substantial penalty. The gap gets even more pronounced as you go up levels. High level characters *NEED* their magic items, and yes that does include Monks.

As far as the other significant Vows (Peace and Non-violence) Bard and Beguiler do well for these, but so can Sorcerers, or any Diplomancer/skill heavy classes. If you were going to take them *all* though I'd still do it as a Druid if I had to touch VoP, because of the free Exalted Feats from VoP and how much Druid handles these situations better. Sentinel of Bharrai by the way is a great Druid PrC for this, also. It gives you Metamagic that right away makes your spells less violent towards nature.

Xefas
2008-02-14, 04:32 PM
I'm just going to make a flavor note. If you take away the inane "Good Alignment" requirement of the Vow feats, you might be surprised by some of the new and interesting combinations that present themselves.

For example, I had a Chaotic Evil Cleric of Erythnul. He was a holy meatgrinder on the battlefield, tearing through normal soldiers like they were paper and screaming with glee. But, that changed when he was fooled by the opposition in such a way as to lose Erythnul one of his MacGuffins. Vengeful as the God was, this Cleric was too powerful of a mortal agent to just kick his soul to the Abyss, and so he let him atone. This atonement entailed giving up the one thing the Cleric loved most in all the world- Battle. Wanting to appease his God (and not wanting to be prematurely sent to an eternity of suffering), the Cleric begrudgingly agreed. He now has the Vow of Nonviolence and Vow of Peace. The benefits of the feats are blessings to keep him safe from aggressors while he's "incapacitated".

I find the idea of a man who was previously only a thinly veiled pot of boiling rage having to solve all his problems for an indefinite amount of time without hurting any living thing a fun one.

Also, doesn't forcing your followers to sacrifice the things they enjoy in their life for your blessing just sort of feel evil? If you were good, wouldn't you just bless them anyway? "Oh, no, you don't have to give up having sex. Here's +2 to Diplomacy *zap*" instead of "Pfft? You want +2 to Diplomacy? Ah, you're gonna have to die a virgin for that."

dyslexicfaser
2008-02-14, 04:49 PM
I'm just going to make a flavor note. If you take away the inane "Good Alignment" requirement of the Vow feats, you might be surprised by some of the new and interesting combinations that present themselves.

For example, I had a Chaotic Evil Cleric of Erythnul. He was a holy meatgrinder on the battlefield, tearing through normal soldiers like they were paper and screaming with glee. But, that changed when he was fooled by the opposition in such a way as to lose Erythnul one of his MacGuffins. Vengeful as the God was, this Cleric was too powerful of a mortal agent to just kick his soul to the Abyss, and so he let him atone. This atonement entailed giving up the one thing the Cleric loved most in all the world- Battle. Wanting to appease his God (and not wanting to be prematurely sent to an eternity of suffering), the Cleric begrudgingly agreed. He now has the Vow of Nonviolence and Vow of Peace. The benefits of the feats are blessings to keep him safe from aggressors while he's "incapacitated".

I find the idea of a man who was previously only a thinly veiled pot of boiling rage having to solve all his problems for an indefinite amount of time without hurting any living thing a fun one.

Also, doesn't forcing your followers to sacrifice the things they enjoy in their life for your blessing just sort of feel evil? If you were good, wouldn't you just bless them anyway? "Oh, no, you don't have to give up having sex. Here's +2 to Diplomacy *zap*" instead of "Pfft? You want +2 to Diplomacy? Ah, you're gonna have to die a virgin for that."

Ah, that sounds like an interesting character concept. An enforced-pacifist who really wants nothing more than to rip out your heart through your spleen.

I wonder if it would be possible to have an entire non-violent party? People gathered from good, neutral, and evil, who for one reason or another must refrain from violence, and instead have to solve everything peacefully.