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Sxoa
2008-02-16, 01:58 PM
One of the big dangers from arrows (if they didn't kill a person outright) was taking them out. Barbed arrowheads and other innovations make yanking the arrow out an uncomfortable proposition. The arrow obviously still has to be removed though otherwise the wound is almost guaranteed to fester, and of course having an arrow sticking out of you is awkward at most social gatherings.

I'd like to replicate this effect in D&D if possible for a couple of reasons:
It's my opinion that archery is underpowered as compared to meleeing it due to the lack of power attack and other such things. This would help rectify this, though really only at lower levels admittedly, but still it's a start.
I think it would be an interesting addition, that would add a little more realism.
I'd like to point out here that this thread is not a discussion about the above two reasons. If you disagree, that's fine, but please hold your tongue. Please only post if you're going to contribute something constructive. I also acknowledge that this would likely add more book keeping to the game, which isn't to the taste of everyone, and that's fine. They're obviously optional rules.

So, lets role up our sleeves and get cracking!
There already exist two weapons that remain embedded, the ritiik and the harpoon, both from Frostburn, and they are probably a good place to start. Each of them become embedded if the hit creature fails a DC 10+damage dealt Reflex Save and remain embedded in the victim unless pulled out. Pulling them out without a DC 15 heal check does the same amount of damage as the original hit. I think that seems reasonable for an arrow too, but both of those are exotic weapons, so maybe that's too powerful for your basic arrow? What are peoples thoughts? Maybe only 1/2 the damage since an arrow is much smaller compared to a harpoon?

I'm not a huge fan of the reflex save as applied to arrows. It seems pretty low for the amount of damage that can be dealt with an arrow. Too easy to make the save. It seems an arrow (since it's not being thrown, and is being fired) would stick a lot better, so if the reflex save is retained, perhaps up it to 15+damage dealt? Thoughts?

Harpoons (and noticeably not Ritiiks) cause the stuck creature to suffer additional consequences. A stuck creature only moves at half speed and cannot charge or run. This seems a little extreme for a single arrow, but I like the idea of being bogged down by arrows sticking out of a character to the point where it's hindering movement. Maybe if a creature has more arrows embedded in it than it has HD (or twice as many if that seems low, but twice seems too high to me) it can only move at half speed and cannot run or charge.

I'm not sure about festering. I think I'll address that after theres been some feedback on embedding. Thanks for your input!

Innis Cabal
2008-02-16, 02:02 PM
There is a wounding property

RTGoodman
2008-02-16, 02:07 PM
I think it seems like a decent way to power up archery, but just realize that PCs are gonna suffer a lot more from the system than NPCs (since they usually last more than one encounter).

I think the damage from taking it out seems fine, but I don't know about the amount. I was thinking that maybe it just does a straight 1d4 or 1d6 to remove it, but no damage with a DC 15 Heal check.

For lingering damage, maybe a simpler way would be just to say 1 damage per arrow per round. Keep the Reflex save to avoid the arrow sticking, since you could conceivably take damage without it actually going in you (that is, you just took a glancing blow, or maybe they just wear you out having to dodge them or something).

I don't like the penalties to moving and running and whatnot - I think the harpoon has that because it's designed to hurt things that you don't want to get away from you, and it's a big freakin' spear sticking in you. For arrows, I'd just avoid it for simplicity's sake.

Caracol
2008-02-16, 03:18 PM
There is a wounding property

So, you need to give your weapon a magical propety even if the fact that an arrow remains embedded by itself happens actually, without magic involved?

I think that 1 damage per round is good, but only if the character is moving. No Reflex save to avoid to be embedded, an arrow that hits just goes in, that's all. The base damage of the weapon that fired the arrow would be enough if you want to remove it (if you have been hit by a composite longbow's arrow, it's 1d8 + magic bonuses, if any)
Agree with the Heal check to avoid taking the damage for removal.

Sxoa
2008-02-16, 11:05 PM
Interesting points. I hadn't thought of them causing continued lingering damage. The festering thing I commented on would be a more long term thing, if an arrow head remained lodged in a wound or something like that, there would be a chance of contracting disease.

I'm definitely aware that this would affect characters more than NPCs. That's part of why I was trying to come up with something similar to the hampering effect of harpoons, creatures would have an incentive to rip the arrow out (and therefore take the extra damage).

@rtg0922: I agree about the purpose of harpoons (though arrows were originally designed for that as well insomuch as they started as hunting tools), and that they are large in comparison to arrows. That being said though, one would still start to get bogged down with dozens of arrows sticking into them. Additionally, going by the rules, a harpoon's size is not accounted for, only it's harpoonyness. An storm giant's huge harpoon hinders movement just as much as a pixie's tiny harpoon (which is probably of comparable size to a storm giant's longbow arrows). A straight damage die seems like it doesn't take into account an arrow that lodges deeply because of a tremendous shot from a strong orc barbarian with a mighty (+6 strength) bow vs. one fired by a human peasant.

@Caracol: What about a mighty bow or the like? It seems like it would penetrate deeper and thus be more quarrelsome to pull out.