Battle Royale IN SPACE

[Seraph]

So, one day, Q gets bored. Deciding he'd like to see a duel to the death, he snatches up four characters from various fictional universes. universi? nevermind.

The four are:

An Ultramarine (Warhammer 40k)
Gordon Freeman (Half-Life)
Master Chief (Halo)
Samus Aran (Metroid)

Q pulls them out of their respective universes and places them on a space station. The station is half a mile wide and on a direct course with a star, which will go supernova and become a black hole at the same time the station impacts it, and said black hole, as well as the surrounding 300 light years, will be carebearstared into oblivion just for good measure.

Each combatant has their optimal weapon/equipment loadout and as much ammo as they can carry. they each start out equally distant from each other, and have a document with profiles of the other three combatants.

the combatants have three days to escape the station. the only way to not be killed in the ensuing destruction is a dimensional transporter at the very center of the station, which will return the user to their home universe. however, the transporter only has enough power for one trip. furthermore, the only way to access the transporter is by use of a key. each combatant has 1/4th of the key, which can only be assembled when just one combatant is left.

which of the four will escape with their life?

[Raging_Pacifist]

It really comes down to Samus and Chief. Maybe Ultramarine. Freeman killed in first five hours.

[Darth Mario]

Yeah, comes down to Samus and Master Chief. Then again, they've fought before...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL-mR79GErU

[Selrahc]

Samus with optimal equipment and gear, as well as maximum ammo?

Yeah. Samus wins so hard its not even funny.

The only thing that could stop her is if the Ultramarine was given one of the more mental superguns in 40K.A vortex grenade(rips a hole in space time.), or a stasis bomb(Stops time for anyone in the blast radius, although eventually it reasserts itself) or a gravity cannon(Not like the one Freeman has. Basically a device that increases the gravity around a person or object to levels that they get popped like watermelons) or a Ctan Phase sword (Goes through anything.) Or a haywire grenade, to shut down all weapons and armour.

Most of those would also destroy the key. And are so rare that a space marine would be very unlikely to have them.

Anything less than superweapons however, aren't going to work. Samus takes hundreds of tank busting shots to defeat when shes at full health. And shes shooting back with some ridulous guns.


Between the other three then... Well John and the Ultramarine would be good matches for each other, with the winner being whoever gets the drop on their opponent. Freeman isn't on the same level as Space Marines or Spartans, even in his nifty HEV suit.

[konfeta]

Gordon's ability to win against these power armor totting people depends entirely oh whenever he gets the super-grav-cannon and who gets the first shot.

So either he gets lucky or dies. So overall he is fourth.

MC is a Space Marine lite in every aspect. He is down there with Gordon.

So yeah, Samus or Marine.

[Icewalker]

Freeman, while totally awesome, and extremely proficient with the crowbar, just isn't armed on par with the rest of these. He gets gunned down.

Master Chief is slightly worse off in armament, and quite a bit worse off in protection than Samus, who I think would win in a fight between them.

I don't know enough about the WH40K universe to compare to a Space Marine.


Also, space stations filled with mysterious evilness is Samus' specialty. I think she'd be able to manage it best.

[Eita]

Space Marine uses his jump pack (he did so optimal weapons load out...) to sneak up on people and uses his twin powerfists to crush the life out of Samus.

[warty goblin]

Hmm, optimum loadout for a Space Marine has some significant room for interpretation. I mean technically under that we could be looking at a Dreadnaught with plasma cannon, heavy flamer and powerfist... after all it is all equipment used by a Space Marine.

In which case I'm gonna give it to the Space Marine.

Now going by optimum loadout for a tactical marine, which is what I think the OP meant, than it's Samus all the way.

[Emperor Ing]

Samus Aran wins everything

unlike the other 3 power armor, Samuses actually INCREASES the agility of the wearer. With it, Samus can fly (space jump), turn a somersault into a devastating weapon (skrew attack) run and fly at incredible speeds, while being deadly to touch (speed boost and shinespark)

And Samus's beam weapons have infinite ammo.

[puppyavenger]

Samus Aran wins everything

unlike the other 3 power armor, Samuses actually INCREASES the agility of the wearer. With it, Samus can fly (space jump), turn a somersault into a devastating weapon (skrew attack) run and fly at incredible speeds, while being deadly to touch (speed boost and shinespark)

And Samus's beam weapons have infinite ammo.

1. and space marine armour is more than a metre thick and has energy diruption field around it, it's as hard to damage as necron living metal.
2. Space Marines have Jetpacks
3. a screw jump would be pretty easy to disrupt a heavy bolter/plasma cannon/rocket launcher
4. Space marines have a full auto .75 cal. grenade launcher with pin-point accuracy.

[Selrahc]

unlike the other 3 power armor,

Or alternatively... exactly like the other power armours.

Gordons suit enables him to jump far higher than a normal human, and run faster.

Master Chiefs suit dramatically increases run speeds, and has things like magnets to enable combat in zero g.

And Space Marine armour is a second skin. It doesn't hinder mobility, but doesn't really help either.


Samus of course, wins in this category. But the other armours don't hurt mobility.

[Emperor Ing]

1. and space marine armour is more than a metre thick and has energy diruption field around it, it's as hard to damage as necron living metal.
2. Space Marines have Jetpacks
3. a screw jump would be pretty easy to disrupt a heavy bolter/plasma cannon/rocket launcher
4. Space marines have a full auto .75 cal. grenade launcher with pin-point accuracy.

1)To counter the supertough superthick armor, just a LOT of concentrated power beam fire combined with missle, or one charged plasma shot, or one super missle, might be enough to take down a space marine
2) yeah, and while space marine is flying, Samus skrew-attacks the space marine. :smalltongue:
3)I definitely recall that in all of the metroid games ive played, when skrew attacking, your immune to damage. Frankly, the damaging field of the skrew attack could devastate projectiles, But whether or not this can be applied is debatable
4)Ice Beam FTW :smallbiggrin:


Please paradon my plurals :smalltongue:

[_Puppetmaster_]

I havent played Halo, Half-Life, or Warhammer 40k, but from the information posted here, I'm going to say that samus wins this battle.

samus could just use a charged up freeze-missile to freeze everybody near her for a while, while she takes the keys off of their paralyzed bodies.

[LordVader]

I'm sorry, but a Space Marine would beat Master Chief.

However, as Samus is from a video game that doesn't even attempt to be realistic (Halo, and from what I've seen, Half-Life, are decently realistic) she more or less automatically wins.

1. Samus
2. Ultramarine
3. Master Chief
4. Gordon Freeman


Evidence for a Marine beating the Chief is that Marine power armor is tougher, and WH40k weaponry will easily beat its Halo equivalent- Marine wins. Plus, I believe Marines have superior genetic modifications.

[Metal Head]

The Samus wins, as the randomizer pointed out. Now, I'm wondering what hell would ensue if Marcus Fenix (Gears of War), Altair (Assassin's Creed), and Dearth Vader were thrown in.

[LordVader]

Heh, Vader would own both, followed by Fenix, and then Altair. Hell, he'd kill Samus too.

Even Altair's badassness can't compensate for the lack of modern weaponry and armor.

[Icewalker]

1. and space marine armour is more than a metre thick

Either this isn't true or I should give up on the idea of looking into WH40K lore. That would be the most ridiculous attempt at protection ever. A meter thick? You wouldn't be able to move, regardless of super technology, unless you are inside a little chamber in the middle with controls. Perhaps you meant half a foot...or maybe a foot at most. Isn't most tank armor nowadays a few inches at most?

So yeah, I think the list above is probably accurate. Samus > Space Marine > Master Chief > Gordon Freeman, who is, despite his awesome, sadly outclassed.

[Mr. Scaly]

For versatility of equipment I give it to Samus, particularly when it's shown to work well against heavily armoured foes before.

[Darth Mario]

I'm sorry, but a Space Marine would beat Master Chief.

What? The one defense the SM is lacking is one that all of the other combatants have, and it's the most important one of all!

Plot armor! :smallbiggrin: :smalltongue:

[puppyavenger]

Either this isn't true or I should give up on the idea of looking into WH40K lore. That would be the most ridiculous attempt at protection ever. A meter thick? You wouldn't be able to move, regardless of super technology, unless you are inside a little chamber in the middle with controls. Perhaps you meant half a foot...or maybe a foot at most. Isn't most tank armor nowadays a few inches at most?

So yeah, I think the list above is probably accurate. Samus > Space Marine > Master Chief > Gordon Freeman, who is, despite his awesome, sadly outclassed.

sorry, yes a foot not a metre.

[Mr._Blinky]

Actually, unlike what other people seem to think, I can definitely see Gordon Freeman being a viable threat. Sure, he gets pwned hard in any form of combat against these guys, but he's also a certified genius. Probably more genius than any of the others, actually. So he doesn't get into a fight.

Instead, he figures out some way to set up traps against the other combatants. Locks the Marine in a passage way and vents him into space, for instance (though he'd need to figure out some way to get the key back). And don't forget that he has the gravity gun: maybe not as effective against these three as against his normal foes, but it still counts for something.

Now, if you want my opinion, throw Darth Vader (at his peak, just after turning to the Sith, assuming he isn't still a pansy) and Marcus Fenix into the mix like Metal Head said (leave Altair out, there's no possible way his weapons can compete), and also throw in Delta 38 (Republic Commando), Sarah Kerrigan (pre-Queen of Blades), and the Predator. Boost the size of the station, and that would be an interesting fight.:smallamused:

Also, puppyavenger, Space Marine armour is not a metre thick. As Marines themselves are three metres tall, armour with a thickness a third their height would be ridiculous. It's more like six inches, meaning they're armoured like a tank, not a battleship.

For the record:
1. Samus
2. Darth Vader
3. Space Marine
4. Master Chief
5. Delta 38
6. Predator
7. Marcus Fenix
?. Gordon Freeman

Freeman is "?" because I think he's got the potential to be anywhere in the rankings, depending on how fast he can put his genius to use. He'll get outclassed quickly in a straight-up fight unfortunately, but if he avoids one he might be one of the last survivors. I doubt he'd win though, unless he got really lucky (as in if all of the others were duking it out in the same bay, and he just increased the gravity a hundred-fold or something).

How durable are these keys, btw? That's kind of vital for some of the things people can do: if you blow up the key along with your enemy, you're screwed.

[Ozymandias]

Optimal equipment?

Rainbow Beam!

[bugsysservant]

For the record:
1. Samus
2. Darth Vader
3. Space Marine
4. Master Chief
5. Delta 38
6. Predator
7. Marcus Fenix
?. Gordon Freeman

Samus outclasses Darth Vader? He could block her smaller blasts/missiles with the force or his lightsaber, and if she waited for her powerup he could easily force jump to close the gap and cut her to shreds. Seriously, if nothing else, he could force crush her. Didn't Anakin do that to a tank during the clone wars? Seriously, if he can crush a tank, one non force user won't put up much of a struggle.

[Mr._Blinky]

Samus outclasses Darth Vader? He could block her smaller blasts/missiles with the force or his lightsaber, and if she waited for her powerup he could easily force jump to close the gap and cut her to shreds. Seriously, if nothing else, he could force crush her. Didn't Anakin do that to a tank during the clone wars? Seriously, if he can crush a tank, one non force user won't put up much of a struggle.

Hmmm, haven't seen the Clone Wars cartoon (though I heard it was excellent), so it's entirely possible there's stuff in there that gives him the edge.

[factotum]

What? The one defense the SM is lacking is one that all of the other combatants have, and it's the most important one of all!

Plot armor! :smallbiggrin: :smalltongue:

How so? There are WH40K novels including Space Marines, you know...

[Cubey]

I'm not a Halo fanboy, and I sure as hell would want to say Samus would own them all, however...
Master Chief wins. (http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=128)

[Rutee]

How so? There are WH40K novels including Space Marines, you know...

If you don't have a name, you don't have plot armor.

[konfeta]

If you don't have a name, you don't have plot armor.

Clearly you aren't familiar with SMURFS. They are, by definition, the plotshield of the Imperium. :smallwink:


The uniforms of the Imperial Guard are camouflaged in order to protect their wearers by hiding them from sight. The principle is that what the enemy cannot see he cannot kill. This is not the way of the Adeptus Astartes. A Space Marine’s armour is bright with heraldry that proclaims his devotion to his Chapter and the beloved Emperor of Mankind. Our principle is that what the enemy can see, he will soon learn to fear…+++ Chaplain Aston, 10th Company, Fire Hawks Chapter +++

I mean, consider the kind of overpowered crap they are fighting. Also, they seem to be subject to the inverse ninja law to an extent.

Lastly, what kind of a Space Marine? A Tactical Squad Member? Terminator? Librarian? A (god have mercy on their souls) Chapter-Master?

[Zencao]

If you don't have a name, you don't have plot armor.

Unless you're an ominous looking stalker/villain D:

[Captain van der Decken]

Samus Aran wins everything

unlike the other 3 power armor, Samuses actually INCREASES the agility of the wearer. With it, Samus can fly (space jump), turn a somersault into a devastating weapon (skrew attack) run and fly at incredible speeds, while being deadly to touch (speed boost and shinespark)

And Samus's beam weapons have infinite ammo.

MC's armour does actually increase his strength and agility. By a helluva lot.

[LordVader]

As does Space Marine powered armor.

But Vader ownz Samus, as he can just deflect/block her missiles, force-push her into a wall, rip off her helmet, and force choke FTW.

[Selrahc]

As does Space Marine powered armor.

It doesn't help agility. Just strength.

[Emperor Ing]

Vader owns everyone. Thats the problem. :smalltongue:

But the battle is between a Space Marine, Samus Aran, Master Chief, and Gordon Freeman.

[LordVader]

It doesn't help agility. Just strength.

I was pretty sure it made the wearer faster than he was before, too.
Or maybe that's the genetic enhancements, and the armor is just powered.

[Selrahc]

Or maybe that's the genetic enhancements, and the armor is just powered.

Yeah.

Welll... higher leg strength makes people faster. So there might be a slight boost. But it doesn't really add to agility.

[sikyon]

Space marine armor increases strength by a proportionate amount to be able to lift the armor, and doesn't increase agility but doesn't detract from it either. You become "stronger" in the sense that you're strong enough to move around in the power armor as before, but your increased strength is countered by the weight of power armor, which is very heavy.

Space marine power armor is also not a foot thick. General depiciton is a space marine without power armor is ~7 feet tall and a space marine with armor is ~8 feet tall. That's about a half foot of armor,of which there are servos and electronics inside taking up space as well.

Optimal Space Marine would be a Librarian with artificer armor (same protection as terminator armor, but without loss of agility), force weapon (death on contact), and iron halo/rosarius for energy shield.

But generally speaking, your optimal space marine is a librarian who will devastate you with psychic powers.

[SurlySeraph]

Vader certainly would not own everyone. If he can instantly force-crush/ force-choke anyone through power armor... why didn't he do that to Obi-Wan? Or Luke? Or the Emperor? Or Han? Or anyone else he disliked? Sure, he's good at offense, since powered armor doesn't block lightsabers. But Vader's armor is not particularly thick. I'd say Master Chief or Gordon Freeman could probably take him out with a few well-placed pistol shots, and the Space Marine would need a single bolter round. You can't reflect bullets with a lightsaber. Vader probably would be able to beat Samus, though - her ranged attacks are mostly energy blasts that he can reflect with his lightsaber, her armor is useless against the lightsaber, and his Jedi precognition/reflexes mostly negate her agility advantage.

Overall, though, Samus gets the win. She's got the best agility, her weapons outclass even the Space Marine's weapons, she's fast, and she's still pretty durable.

[Rutee]

Why doesn't he choke everyone? Drama. Shall we assume he acts intelligently, or as a BBEG or Dragon /ought/ to act? I like the latter better, personally.

[Selrahc]

Space marine armor increases strength by a proportionate amount to be able to lift the armor, and doesn't increase agility but doesn't detract from it either. You become "stronger" in the sense that you're strong enough to move around in the power armor as before, but your increased strength is countered by the weight of power armor, which is very heavy.

No. You become stronger, even once you've taken into account the weight of the armour.

As borne out by Inquistor, and more recently, Dark Heresy. Power armour accounts for its own weight, and then boosts your strength a nice amount.


That's about a half foot of armor,of which there are servos and electronics inside taking up space as well.

On the chest or shoulder blades at least. I'd say that the arms, helmet or legs are going to only be three inches thick or so, with even less protection on the joints.



But generally speaking, your optimal space marine is a librarian who will devastate you with psychic powers.

It depends what rank really. An epistolary or chief Librarian is going to be doing all sorts of crazy stuff. Wheras a Codicier or other low ranked librarian is going to have much less spectacular powers, as well as being markedly less martial than the average marine.


her armor is useless against the lightsaber,

Samus's armour on its optimal load out, is an item of incredible toughness.

It has an energy shield fueled by dozens and dozens of tanks, which are each ridiculously powerful. And since energy shields are shown to reisist Lightsabers, I have trouble believing that Vader will be able to do much at all to Samus with his lightsaber.



her ranged attacks are mostly energy blasts that he can reflect with his lightsaber,

Except she can shoot some really big beams. If she blasts him with a charge beam thats bigger than he is then a lightsaber won't help. Similarly, she could blast him with missiles, supermissiles or those mine things she drops. Or zap him with a grapple beam and smash him into a wall.


You can't reflect bullets with a lightsaber

But you don't need to reflect bullets. You just need them to not hit you. Which a lightsaber could do, by vaporizing them.

[Cubey]

On Vader's choking habits: did you see him use that ability in combat? Or against major combatants? I am pretty sure that people with better determination, resolve and pain tolerance than rebel mooks or Empire fleet officers, for example EVERYONE ELSE in this thread, wouldn't be completely immobilised by his choke. They'd have enough willpower to at least launch a shot at him, forcing him to either: A. deflect or dodge it, thus ending the choke or B. take it on and, due to his lack of any serious armor, die or be heavily wounded.

[bugsysservant]

Vader certainly would not own everyone. If he can instantly force-crush/ force-choke anyone through power armor... why didn't he do that to Obi-Wan? Or Luke? Or the Emperor? Or Han? Or anyone else he disliked?

Well, its either assumed or stated somewhere that other force users have a much easier time counteracting the powers of the sith. For instance, the spirit of Exar Kun, one of the greatest sith lords of all time who was stated by some to be greater than Revan, couldn't force choke a padawan. Presumably he could force choke someone like Han though. And anyone who's seen the original movies does know that he does indeed force choke anyone he dislikes. :smallbiggrin:

[Thangorodrim]

1. and space marine armour is more than a metre thick and has energy diruption field around it, it's as hard to damage as necron living metal.

Are you on crack ?


sorry, yes a foot not a metre.

I think thats pushing it a touch as well!

Call it several inches.



Instead, he figures out some way to set up traps against the other combatants. Locks the Marine in a passage way and vents him into space

Unlikely to be a problem for the marine, sealed, heated armour, zero-gee manoeuvre capability with even the standard backpacks, mag-boots, or even big spikes to stick into the floor.


How so? There are WH40K novels including Space Marines, you know...

Indeed, the Anime ninja law seems to apply to marines as well!


Space marine armor increases strength by a proportionate amount to be able to lift the armor, and doesn't increase agility but doesn't detract from it either.

Um, Marine armour exoskeletons are self supporting, and increase the strength of the marine.


but your increased strength is countered by the weight of power armor, which is very heavy.

Not particularly, there is a distinct and repeatedly referenced increase in physical capability, beyond that of simply carrying the armour.


On the chest or shoulder blades at least. I'd say that the arms, helmet or legs are going to only be three inches thick or so, with even less protection on the joints.

Considering the superior materials technology of the Imperium, I'd be wary of assigning them equivalent armour values.

Space hulk describes bolters as being able to penetrate 8 inches + "plasteel" armour, Bolters aren't reliably able to penetrate marine armour.


It depends what rank really. An epistolary or chief Librarian is going to be doing all sorts of crazy stuff. Wheras a Codicier or other low ranked librarian is going to have much less spectacular powers, as well as being markedly less martial than the average marine.

Less martial ? A Librarian's training is going to harder if anything, even a Codicier or Lexicanum can incinerate an armoured human or Ork with their powers, or something equally unfortunate.


It has an energy shield fueled by dozens and dozens of tanks, which are each ridiculously powerful. And since energy shields are shown to reisist Lightsabers, I have trouble believing that Vader will be able to do much at all to Samus with his lightsaber.

Some quantification of Samus' armour might be useful, I've not been impressed by the games portrayal.


On Vader's choking habits: did you see him use that ability in combat? Or against major combatants?

I saw Dooku, a weaker Sith Lord do it effortlessly.

[Talkkno]

On Vader's choking habits: did you see him use that ability in combat? Or against major combatants? I am pretty sure that people with better determination, resolve and pain tolerance than rebel mooks or Empire fleet officers, for example EVERYONE ELSE in this thread, wouldn't be completely immobilised by his choke. They'd have enough willpower to at least launch a shot at him, forcing him to either: A. deflect or dodge it, thus ending the choke or B. take it on and, due to his lack of any serious armor, die or be heavily wounded.

On Vader's armor, we do deflect Luke's errant glancing lightsaber hit with no damage to himself. And Jorrus'C Boath manage to only merely fall unconscious in Dark Force Rising by getting shot at by a low powered X-Wing's laser cannon, which are kiloton level. And Vader can absorb energy attacks, as seen when Han shot at him in ESB and had no effect whatsoever. And it said General Grevious's armor can resist starfighter level laser cannons

[Mr._Blinky]

a low powered X-Wing's laser cannon, which are kiloton level.

Uhhhhh...no.

I don't care how many different cross-sections, books, cartoons, video games, and cereal boxes you quote at me, an x-wing "laser" does not have a kiloton yield. Not anywhere close. Numerous times in the movies, we see the blasts from Star Wars fighters and cannons hit things in atmosphere, and the amount of energy released is more akin to a small tank round. The people who write Star Wars have no concept of physics, and it really pisses me off when people insist that they do, despite all of the contrary evidence.:smallannoyed:

[Seraph]

Okay, allow me to clarify. I don't mean Librarians as it's an unfair advantage to give anybody psychic powers in this match. I mean an average Ultramarine battle Brother, with optimal equipment, not a librarian with mindcontrol.





low powered X-Wing's laser cannon, which are kiloton level

Considering that "kiloton level" is about the range that the hiroshima bomb fell into, I call bull****.

[Selrahc]

Less martial ? A Librarian's training is going to harder if anything, even a Codicier or Lexicanum can incinerate an armoured human or Ork with their powers, or something equally unfortunate.


Less martial in that they aren't as good pure fighters. Much much less actual combat training, because a large portion of their time is spent either in the Chapter Library, or on psychic training.

As well, their psychioc powers at that level are only going to be semi developed. About the level of a powerful normal psyker, but not at the level where you can kill a man with a glance, or control minds easily. And they have much less defence from the warp, so they'd be more wary of using their powers.



Considering the superior materials technology of the Imperium, I'd be wary of assigning them equivalent armour values.

Um? Equivalent to what?

I was just giving a guesstimate of how thick the armour was in various areas.

I do know though that a perfectly ordinary human with a knife can stab through it with a powerful thrust if they attack the joints(Behind the knee).

Also that Heavy Bolter Rounds will leave giant craters, and cracks in the armour, but not break it easily, and modern weaponry equivalents(Autoguns) are near useless.



Some quantification of Samus' armour might be useful, I've not been impressed by the games portrayal.

At the begining of the games, or in the multiplayer, you are saddled with lameass armour. It can take two missiles, and has almost no energy tanks.

As you continue through the game however, the protection capabilities of the armour are upgraded exponentially.

Shots that would kill you at the start, now take off less than 1% of your health. Running through lava for a long long time is completely viable. You have(IIRC) 120 or so times the health(120 energy tanks) you had at the begining of the game.

[Cubey]

120 energy packs? Woahthatsalot. What game is that from, Metroid Prime? I only played Super Metroid, where you had ~14 energy banks +4 reserve banks (same thing basically).

On kilowatt lasers... I always said SW writers had no sense of scale. But no, the technical book was written by an astrophysicist, so it HAD to be accurate. Well, astrophysicists can be fanboys too, and add a few zeros after a number to make it look cooler.

[Mr._Blinky]

On kilowatt lasers... I always said SW writers had no sense of scale. But no, the technical book was written by an astrophysicist, so it HAD to be accurate. Well, astrophysicists can be fanboys too, and add a few zeros after a number to make it look cooler.

Well, add on the fact that astrophysics is specifically the study of celestial bodies and their movements, and has absolutely nothing to do with experimental weapons technology, armor, or even space-flight for that matter. Its like asking a poet to write you an encyclopedia. Similar principles, completely different application.

[Seraph]

Well, add on the fact that astrophysics is specifically the study of celestial bodies and their movements, and has absolutely nothing to do with experimental weapons technology, armor, or even space-flight for that matter. Its like asking a poet to write you an encyclopedia. Similar principles, completely different application.

nah, see, a poet is versed in the english language. it's more like asking a mathematician to do 3-D modeling.

[Talkkno]

Uhhhhh...no.

I don't care how many different cross-sections, books, cartoons, video games, and cereal boxes you quote at me, an x-wing "laser" does not have a kiloton yield. Not anywhere close. Numerous times in the movies, we see the blasts from Star Wars fighters and cannons hit things in atmosphere, and the amount of energy released is more akin to a small tank round. The people who write Star Wars have no concept of physics, and it really pisses me off when people insist that they do, despite all of the contrary evidence.:smallannoyed:

Mind you provide some evidence and calcs for your presumptions? Your going to need kiloton level weaponary to deal with armor that is several orders of magnitudes stronger then steel to surive their rates of acceleration, given that Rebel starfighters were seen to traverse more than 300,000km in less than 5 minutes just before the battle of Yavin, requiring accelerative capabilities on the order of at least 13,000 m/s². And we know X- and Y-wings are slower then bog standard TIE fighters, and they are flimsy as cardboard compared to them.

[Seraph]

Mind you provide some evidence and calcs for your presumptions? Your going to need kiloton level weaponary to deal with armor that is several orders of magnitudes stronger then steel to surive their rates of acceleration, given that Rebel starfighters were seen to traverse more than 300,000km in less than 5 minutes just before the battle of Yavin, requiring accelerative capabilities on the order of at least 13,000 m/s². And we know X- and Y-wings are slower then bog standard TIE fighters, and they are flimsy as cardboard compared to them.

I don't need calculations to tell me that X-wing blasters aren't powerful enough to liquefy japanese cities.

[munchlord]

*lobs in Radamanth Nemes or the Shrimp and ends the battle once and for all*

in more seriousness, consider this when talking blast power: the x-wing shots are lasers, not explosives. An explosive causes a lot higher area of devastation compared to the energy in it than a laser, and looks much more massive.
A laser can have infinite amounts of energy stored in one point, making the devastation very localized but where it hits it is -severe- AoE from lasers are the results of stuff radiating off heat and increasing rapidly in size due to heating. This means that it should be able to cause a lot smaller explosions and stuff while retaining extreme amounts of energy.

Also it would be worth noting that the normal way of referring to laser power is in watt, since the exact amount of energy delivered depends on time as well.

[Talkkno]

Also it would be worth noting that the normal way of referring to laser power is in watt, since the exact amount of energy delivered depends on time as well.

Well, they aren't lasers they're some sort of plasma weapon given that we know that they "energize" whatever "Tibanna gas" into a plasma state.

[Renegade Paladin]

It really comes down to Samus and Chief. Maybe Ultramarine. Freeman killed in first five hours.
Query: Which of Master Chief's weapons do you expect to hurt the Ultramarine, anyway? Apart from the rocket launcher he doesn't have much that could do it, and even that's iffy.

[Selrahc]

Query: Which of Master Chief's weapons do you expect to hurt the Ultramarine, anyway? Apart from the rocket launcher he doesn't have much that could do it, and even that's iffy.

Energy Sword, Gravity Hammer, Sniper Rifle, Beam Rifle, Brute Shot, Charged up plasma pistol, Spartan Laser.

The rocket launcher isn't iffy. A rocket launcher would certainly damage a marine if it hit them full on.

[Renegade Paladin]

Energy Sword, Gravity Hammer, Sniper Rifle, Beam Rifle, Brute Shot, Charged up plasma pistol, Spartan Laser.

The rocket launcher isn't iffy. A rocket launcher would certainly damage a marine if it hit them full on.
Oh, please. A charged up plasma pistol won't even kill a SPARTAN; it certainly wouldn't be a much bigger deal to a much heavier armored Marine. The sniper weapons could do it, but he'd have to very carefully hit the joints. The brute shot is just a grenade launcher; Marines can withstand much more powerful explosions than that. Gravity hammers and energy swords I could see, but he'd have to somehow close while taking bolter rounds, each of which packs roughly the power of a rocket launcher round; as Astartes armor can take bolter rounds, one can infer that they could withstand a rocket launcher.

[Mr._Blinky]

I don't need calculations to tell me that X-wing blasters aren't powerful enough to liquefy japanese cities.

And considering that in The Phantom Menace we see guns from a comparably powerful fighter scoring direct hits on marble and not doing much more than blowing a small crater, I think we can assume that even without an AoE, they're nowhere near even a ton of explosive force. If they were anywhere close to the kiloton range, they would have blown up the whole structure, or at least killed everyone in the hangar bay.

Hmm, oh yeah, and then there's the snowspeeders, also with similar main guns, hitting the ground at Hoth. Huh, all we see is a puff of smoke and a somewhat impressive blast, comparable to a tank round. I wonder where all of the rest of their power went...?

I know, maybe the Rebellion was taking cues from the Empire and routinely going into battle with their weapons at fractional power![/sarcasm]

[hylian chozo]

Samus finds and defeats Ridley, then the station blows up. Don't ask me how he gets there, he's Ridley, he just does.

Master Chief can't take a pistol-whip to back of the head, much less a wave beam to the face. Gordon Freeman may be able to steal the keys with the gravity gun; How big are they? (I cannot get the image of Gordon Freeman firing the morph-ball out of the gravity gun out of my head) And Vader? Seriously? He may be able to deflect a few shots, but can he handle the spazer? I wonder if the ultramarine can withstand a shot a the plasma/nova beam, a beam designed to pierce enemies?

Seriously,though; ultimate Samus is just as overpowered as ultimate Link. Off the top of my head, a list of Samus's weapons:
Power beam
Charge beam
Wave beam
Plasma beam
Spazer beam
Ice beam
Nova beam
Missiles
Super missiles
Ice missiles
Diffusion missiles
Light beam
Dark beam
Annihilator beam
Bomb
Power bomb
BEAM/MISSILE COMBO'S:
Ice spreader
Flamethrower
Sonic boom
Wavebuster

And don't forget hypermode!

[Renegade Paladin]

And considering that in The Phantom Menace we see guns from a comparably powerful fighter scoring direct hits on marble and not doing much more than blowing a small crater, I think we can assume that even without an AoE, they're nowhere near even a ton of explosive force. If they were anywhere close to the kiloton range, they would have blown up the whole structure, or at least killed everyone in the hangar bay.

Hmm, oh yeah, and then there's the snowspeeders, also with similar main guns, hitting the ground at Hoth. Huh, all we see is a puff of smoke and a somewhat impressive blast, comparable to a tank round. I wonder where all of the rest of their power went...?

I know, maybe the Rebellion was taking cues from the Empire and routinely going into battle with their weapons at fractional power![/sarcasm]
Aren't you talking about this in the wrong thread? In any case, a given amount of energy will manifest quite differently in a laser than in an explosive device, for the obvious reasons. Surely this isn't that difficult to see.

[Talkkno]

Aren't you talking about this in the wrong thread? In any case, a given amount of energy will manifest quite differently in a laser than in an explosive device, for the obvious reasons. Surely this isn't that difficult to see.
Note: It's not a laser, its a energized "Tibbana" gas thats converted to plasma, kind of like IOM's plasma weapons, which use hydrogen instead.

[sikyon]

Aren't you talking about this in the wrong thread? In any case, a given amount of energy will manifest quite differently in a laser than in an explosive device, for the obvious reasons. Surely this isn't that difficult to see.

Not really, there's no "How inconsistent is Star Wars" thread that I'm aware of.

Though I should start one.

Regardless, as you can see you can make estimates that vary in many, many magnitudes based on what sorts of assumptions you want to make. For example, if you want to go the "How did the hull withstand all that acceleration" route I'll shoot back with "why weren't the people dead if they were accelerating that fast?" If you call "inertial dampners" or something like that, then that's how they make the hull not feel the force of acceleration.

What's going to happen is you're going to start pulling out all the high ball estimates, with blasters vapourizing chunks of rock and people who think that's rediculous (OCCAM'S RAZOR) are going to start pulling out lowball estimates like how a blaster didn't do anything to Leia's arm. You can't reconcoile the two figures without massive contrivances, and if you seriously want to apply them then a serious discussion becomes moot because frankley there's not enough data.

[Talkkno]

Not really, there's no "How inconsistent is Star Wars" thread that I'm aware of.



There was a "The Great Star Wars power debate" thread once, made for intention of resolving these "inconsistencies" and determining if things like the ICS and there like were addmissble for evidence due to their convinced wankery, though Renegade Paladin argued all the naysayers back and it is unto oblivion. The Imperium vs Empire(the first one) one had some good tidbits and the end of it also.

[sikyon]

There was a "The Great Star Wars power debate" thread once, made for intention of resolving these "inconsistencies" and determining if things like the ICS and there like were addmissble for evidence due to their convinced wankery, though Renegade Paladin argued all the naysayers back and it is unto oblivion. The Imperium vs Empire(the first one) one had some good tidbits and the end of it also.

I think I posted in them, came to the realization that if you approached them with high-low power scenarios then the numbers just didn't add up. I spent the rest of the time trying to argue that star wars didn't have self-consistency, but warsies just start trying to refute low end numbers for star wars, such as arguments on how different types of energy affect different materials(true, but immaterial as such variation prevents any estimate at all). For the most part I've given up on trying to convince them, as trying to drill it into their heads that due to special effects budgets, sliding timeline of science and the fact that star wars was plot, not science based that true reconciliation is ridiculous.

[ShadowSiege]

I figured out how Gordon wins: AR2's secondary fire is the Combine Ball. Insta-kill, the AR2 holds 2 shots. BUT he can also grab it with the grav gun, and bounce it around, making it last theoretically infinitely long. He uses one on MC & the SM, saving the other for Samus along with his newly acquired gear from MC & the SM.

Failing that, Gordon doesn't die. Period. The Gman or the Vorts step in and haul him out of the situation just in the nick of time, leaving behind the key piece he had for Samus to use to escape.

[Selrahc]

Oh, please. A charged up plasma pistol won't even kill a SPARTAN; it certainly wouldn't be a much bigger deal to a much heavier armored Marine. The sniper weapons could do it, but he'd have to very carefully hit the joints. The brute shot is just a grenade launcher; Marines can withstand much more powerful explosions than that. Gravity hammers and energy swords I could see, but he'd have to somehow close while taking bolter rounds, each of which packs roughly the power of a rocket launcher round; as Astartes armor can take bolter rounds, one can infer that they could withstand a rocket launcher.

You appear to be thinking I Meant "Instantly kill a marine". I didn't. I do believe a proper shot from any of those weapons would hurt a Space Marine.

[Emperor Ing]

Seriously,though; ultimate Samus is just as overpowered as ultimate Link. Off the top of my head, a list of Samus's weapons:
Power beam
Charge beam


Thats all she needs to wipe the floor clean! Any additions would cause major overkill


Oh, please. A charged up plasma pistol won't even kill a SPARTAN; it certainly wouldn't be a much bigger deal to a much heavier armored Marine.
A charged up plasma pistol shot destroys energy shields and temporarily overloads vehicles. It doesnt kill, but it does make it a lot easier

I can see the charged plasma shot at worst, shorting out a few of the Marine's systems, at best, overloading all suit mechanics preventing all movement temporarily, letting MC get close to *ker stab* with the sword

[Talkkno]

I can see the charged plasma shot at worst, shorting out a few of the Marine's systems, at best, overloading all suit mechanics preventing all movement temporarily, letting MC get close to *ker stab* with the sword

Marine armor can at least deal with Tau pulse rifles, which are more powerful and out range bolters.

[warty goblin]

Note: It's not a laser, its a energized "Tibbana" gas thats converted to plasma, kind of like IOM's plasma weapons, which use hydrogen instead.

And even if it was an actual laser, with that kind of power behind it it would have almost certainly cut straight through the floor and probably several floors underneath it, instead of just blowing a crater into it.

[SurlySeraph]

I figured out how Gordon wins: AR2's secondary fire is the Combine Ball. Insta-kill, the AR2 holds 2 shots. BUT he can also grab it with the grav gun, and bounce it around, making it last theoretically infinitely long.

Actually, no. I've tried that. The energy ball explodes after a while, even if you hold it still. Unless all of his enemies were in the same room at the same time, it wouldn't work.

[Selrahc]

Marine armor can at least deal with Tau pulse rifles, which are more powerful and out range bolters.

It offers protection against them. It doesn't stop them without fail.

The same way it would offer protection against an overcharged plasma pistols shot, but not completely protect.

[Meshakhad]

The battle begins. Ultramarine runs around looking for targets. Samus does the same with more finesse. Master Chief tries to access the computer systems. Gordon hides in the ventilation ducts and tries to find the armory.

The first to die is the Ultramarine. Samus ambushes and kills him.

Gordon dies to MC when they both reach the armory. Actually, Gordon is snatched away by the G-Man just before MC kills him, but Gordon loses.

Now it's down to MC and Samus. Samus has superior firepower and speed. MC, however, has superior brains. He lays a devious ambush for Samus.

What happens next is unsure. It mostly depends on whether or not Cortana is around. If she's there, I give MC a 3/4 chance of killing Samus. If she's not there, I give MC only a 1/4 chance.

[Selrahc]

Ultramarine runs around looking for targets. Samus does the same with more finesse.

Yeah? These marines spent their inaugral years in a scout unit. Stuff that would make elite special forces from the real world cringe is standard for these guys.

Plus they have the whole "better than peak human reaction times, enhanced dexterity and a perfect sense of balance" thing going on.

Samus is more mobile. Shes faster. But she is not a more stealthy individual.



The first to die is the Ultramarine. Samus ambushes and kills him.

I don't think she can get an ambush.
Hes probably a better warrior than her, and has hypersenses and scanning tech.

Not that knowing she is there would help him much, because she is much much better equipped.


MC, however, has superior brains.

Uh... as does the Ultramarine. If you are a Space Marine you are a tactical genius, who studies war constantly for centuries (Your average Marine is going to be just under a century old. The eldest can be around 700 years old, and in some chapters you have marines who age at over a thousand). You're picked from the best of the best, which includes mental capacities. In the Ultramarines tactical training is even more important that it is for the majority of chapters.

Everything the Chief can do, the Ultramarine can do.

However, that doesn't really matter, because they could both stand next to Samus and empty entire clips into her to no effect.