PDA

View Full Version : Best build with 3 in all stats?



Aquillion
2008-02-17, 02:15 AM
What's the most mechanically optimized character you can come up with, given that you have to start with a 3 in all stats? No game-breaking cheese. Your character advances as normal other than the 3 in all stats, has usual WBL, and gets the usual bonus stats as you go up in level (not that they'll help you much.)

You can aim for being effective at whatever level you want, or at being effective in whatever role you want, but characters that are effective (relatively) for more of their career and characters effective in a more useful role score more points. Er, if we were awarding points, which we aren't.

A character with a good or interesting background etc is worth points, too, but the real goal is to be at least remotely useful and effective in some role.

Raroy
2008-02-17, 02:43 AM
A character with 3 in all stats wouldn't be out adventuring. They would be the equivalent of a heavy mentally and physically handicapped person. With three con you would have to be hooked up to tubes to live. This challenge is just improbable.

VerdugoExplode
2008-02-17, 02:48 AM
Well, with a 3 in con he wouldn't need tubes to live, he would just have to live in a bubble as even a strong breeze or common cold could prove fatal. 3 dex means he's barely capable of movement. 3 strength means he can barely crawl and a 3 in all the non-physical stats means he has all the cognitive capacity and personality of a carrot, and not a very delectable carrot either, but that carrot you find at the bottom of the crisper drawer left over from the roast you made several months prior and forgot about leaving it to become discolored and misshapen, a cruel mockery of its once bright orange glory.

As stated before this person wouldn't be adventuring, he wouldn't be doing much of anything unless you consider the occupation of doorstop a rewarding career path.

SofS
2008-02-17, 03:02 AM
I can't find anything in the warlock's class description that actually requires an ability score to simply operate. Perhaps a low-level warlock that fought mostly by summoning swarms and hiding in fog clouds and such could survive some well-planned fights, having turned from an evidently sadistic god to a devil that at least grants neat powers instead of crippling illnesses.

Solo
2008-02-17, 03:03 AM
He could be a manservant to an arrogant and sharp witted Elizabethan era nobleman.

Quellian-dyrae
2008-02-17, 03:04 AM
Warlock, no question. Eldritch blast is a touch attack, which will offset your pathetic chance to hit against many enemies, and bonus damage from Strength is meaningless. Invocations, as far as I can tell, do not have a minimum ability requirement to use, so your only loss is in save DC. Find the ones that don't allow a save. You also get UMD, which is actually better for you than for a normal caster, since in this case, using the item's ability score is a great boost.

Backstory is, you've been pathetic in everything all your life, so you were easily convinced by some apostle to make a pact with some sort of infernal being for power, and are now on a deluded quest to prove that you have become stronger than anyone.

Take Leadership at 6th level. Your cohort is the apostle that converted you. The apostle is the brains of the operation, acting like a minion while really calling the shots (and allowing you to actually do intelligent things during play).

EDIT: ::Sigh::Beaten to the punch...

And, to satisfy the requisite "build someone even weaker than you have to who dies and then roll up a new character" joke that must be included in all threads like these: The other option is a CWar samurai. Even if you somehow survive your first mission, you'll no doubt fail it so spectacularly that you can commit ritual suicide for dishonoring your Lord.

Kurald Galain
2008-02-17, 03:21 AM
The other option is a CWar samurai. Even if you somehow survive your first mission, you'll no doubt fail it so spectacularly that you can commit ritual suicide for dishonoring your Lord.

Soooo, you want to commit ritual suicide, eh? Make a dex check.

D'oh!

Quellian-dyrae
2008-02-17, 03:25 AM
Soooo, you want to commit ritual suicide, eh? Make a dex check.

D'oh!

::Snicker::Sadly, that is not too entirely dissimilar to something that actually happened to me in a game...

Admiral Squish
2008-02-17, 03:29 AM
He has all the cognitive capacity and personality of a carrot, and not a very delectable carrot either, but that carrot you find at the bottom of the crisper drawer left over from the roast you made several months prior and forgot about leaving it to become discolored and misshapen, a cruel mockery of its once bright orange glory.

I must have this statement. May I siggify it?

Crow
2008-02-17, 04:26 AM
Druid. The animal companion does all the fighting until level 5, then wildshape. Hp will still be low. We just need a way to boost the CON through WBL.

Rutee
2008-02-17, 04:35 AM
Druid. The animal companion does all the fighting until level 5, then wildshape. Hp will still be low. We just need a way to boost the CON through WBL.

And here I was praying to god that someone wouldn't figure out a way to make it Druid. Along with Con, you would want to get some Wis; If you could get up to +6 Wis by level 12, you'd be able to cast Owl's Wisdom on yourself, and then access the lion's share of your spells

Edit: Or would those both be Enhancement bonuses? Hm.. well you could at least cast the others... I recommend you save all your WBL for the Bracers, I guess.

Crow
2008-02-17, 04:40 AM
And here I was praying to god that someone wouldn't figure out a way to make it Druid. Along with Con, you would want to get some Wis; If you could get up to +6 Wis by level 12, you'd be able to cast Owl's Wisdom on yourself, and then access the lion's share of your spells

Edit: Or would those both be Enhancement bonuses? Hm.. well you could at least cast the others... I recommend you save all your WBL for the Bracers, I guess.

He can probably afford a wand of Aid for a little extra hp...and other bonuses.

It really is a testament to the power of that class. I mean seriously. Holy crap.

Tengu
2008-02-17, 04:49 AM
(cliche answer)

Wizard - sell your spellbook (which you cannot use anyway), buy a pair of magebred hounds. Might not work if the number of spells in your starting spellbook depends on your intelligence (I forgot does it or not).
Alternatively - wizard or sorcerer, feats: weapon proficiency (greatsword), monkey grip. Round 1: cast True Strike from a scroll or wand. Round 2: charge and attack with your Large greatsword for 3d6-4 damage, AB+16. Round 3: hope that no enemies around decide to kick your chewy AC 4, HP 1 arse. Hmm, kinda expensive. I think druid or warlock do better in that department.

Jack Zander
2008-02-17, 05:36 AM
Human Barbarian. 4 ranks in the survival skill. Take the feats Skill Focus: Survival and Self-Sufficient.

At level 1:
Your survival check is now a +5 even with a -4 Wis. Your hp is 8 (10 when raging) and your fast movement lets you run away from those pesky housecats. Your sole role in the party is to provide them with food and Fort bonuses when in the wild while they protect you. And you do a fairly decent job at it too.

Alternatively, select fight and always choose toughness as your feat. You've got 15 hp at level 1 and an average of 3.7 hp each level thereafter (If my math is correct). At level 20 you've got 88 hp (148 if all your stat bonuses went to Con, 248 if you've got the amulet of health +6 and the book that gives +4 (or 5 if you want for some reason)). Not impressive, but with an enchanted set of full plate, an enchanted tower shield, and a defending weapon you could be the party meat shield.

One more: UMD rogue can have a +32 in the skill at level 20 (Skill Focus and Magical Affinity, +5 Charisma from leveling, +6 Cloak, +4 (or 5) Tome. Even at level 1, he'd have a +5 in the skill (30% chance to use a wand)

Tam_OConnor
2008-02-17, 05:47 AM
Because it's early and I can't really think yet:
At level 1:
Dwarven Fighter 1; Fey bloodline (from UA)
Race reasons: No movement penalty for heavy loads and armor
Attack, dodge and save bonuses
Con bonus
Other possibilities: Halfling or Gnome (more stealthy and squishy version), Half-orc (Ranger)
Class reasons: Can't go caster, period, the end (unless you go druid for the wild-shaping <see endnote>). Therefore, either Adventurer or Warrior.
Barbarian: Whirling frenzy might be viable, but even better would be a variant from Dragon magazine that gives bonuses to Dex and Con. High HP and full BAB are nice.
2nd:Bard: Possible, but only if you find something to trade in those spells for something you can actually use... At most, three skills, so not much to work with from a skill perspective.
Fighter: Not as many hit points as the Bbn, but feats like Toughness and Weapon Focus can make you mediocre instead of dreadful.
Ranger: Favored enemies is nice if you can predict them, but TWF requires more rolls (something this character can't do) and Archery means shooting arrows at a damage penalty. Possible with a half-orc.
Rogue: Sneak attack would be nice, and the massive number of skills (5 max) means this is a possibility. Take 20s often.
Bloodlines: You don't have to worry about losing caster levels, so you may as well have a bloodline and give up non-existent BAB.

Base stats: Str 3 Dex 3 Con 5 Int 3 Wis 3 Cha 1
What this means: Max carrying capacity of 30lbs. That's total: armor, weapons, gear, etc. -4 to Str, Dex, Int and Wis based rolls, -5 Int-based, -3 Con-based.

Skills: Hide, and be a sniper. Yes, I know it's a cross-class skill. But most of the time, orc and goblin warbands aren't observant. And you get a +2 bonus from your bloodline. True, you've got a -5 modifier (2 ranks, +2 racial, -4 Dex, -5 armor), but you can take 20 when you prepare the site.
Feats:
1st: Dauntless (Faerunian bonus feat; +5 hp)
Fighter 1st: Weapon Focus: Light crossbow (You need all the help you can get)

Assuming standard starting gold (150gp), items:
Scale Mail (+4 AC, -4 armor check, 30 lbs (15 worn), 50gp)
Buckler (+1 AC, -1 armor check, 5 lbs (2.5 worn), 15gp)
Light crossbow (Atk -2, 1d8/19-20, 4 lbs, 35 gp)
40 bolts (4 lbs, 4gp)
Put the rest of the gp (46) into gems, so they weigh less.

HP: 12 AC:11 BAB +1 Fort -1 Ref -4 Will -4 (w/o racial mods; +2 vs poison, spells)

As you level (HP is average: 1/2 +1, 1/2, 1/2+1, etc)
2nd: Ftr 2: Point Blank Shot; Bloodline feat: Iron Will.
Gear: Mwk lt xbow, mwk buckler, mwk chainmail, 96gp
Stats: HP: 15 AC: 12 BAB +2, Ranged Atk -1; Hide -4 (2.5); Fort +0 Ref -4 Will -2

3rd: Bloodline Level: Gain hp, but no BAB, SVs. Feat: Rapid Reload; Bloodline: +1 Cha (2)
Gear: Mwk Full plate, 546gp
Stats: HP: 17 AC: 15 BAB +2, Ranged Atk -1; Hide -5 (2.5); Fort +0 Ref -4 Will -2

4th: Dwarven Paragon 1: Ability boost: +1 Con (6), +paragon lvl on dwarfcraft, imp. stonecunning. Bloodline: Charm person 1/day (Will DC 7)
Gear: +1 lt xbow, +1 full plate, 246gp
Stats: HP: 20 AC: 16 BAB +3, Ranged Atk +1; Hide -4 (3); Fort +2 Ref -4 Will -2

5th: Dwarven Paragon 2: Imp. darkvision, Imp. saves. Bloodline: Fey affinity +2
Gear: Gloves of Dex +2 (Dex 5), 846gp
Stats: HP: 22 AC: 17 BAB +4, Ranged Atk +3; Hide -2 (3.5); Fort +3 Ref -4 Will -2

6th: Bloodline level: Gain hp, but no BAB, SVs. Feat: Power Critical: Light Crossbow; Bloodline: low-light vision.
Gear: +1 shadow full plate, +1 buckler, 96gp
Stats: HP: 25 AC: 18 BAB +4, Ranged Atk +3; Hide +3 (3.5); Fort +3 Ref -4 Will -2

7th: Dwarven Paragon 3: +2 Con (8); Bloodline: +2 Move Silently.
Gear: +2 cloak of resistance, Heward's handy haversack, 96gp
Stats: HP: 34 AC: 18 BAB +5, Ranged Atk +4; Hide +4 (4); Fort +5 Ref -1 Will +1

8th: Fighter 3: Ability boost: +1 Dex (6); Bloodline feat: Alertness
Gear: +1 shock lt xbow, ring of protection +1, 96gp
Stats: HP: 38 AC: 20 BAB +6, Ranged Atk +5; Hide +4 (4.5); Fort +5 Ref +0 Will +2

9th: Fighter 4: Bonus feat: Weapon Specialization (light crossbow); feat: Improved Critical (Light crossbow); Bloodline: +1 Dex (7)
Gear: +2 buckler, Amulet of Health +2 (Con 10), 2096gp
Stats: HP: 51 AC: 21 BAB +7, Ranged Atk +7; Hide +6 (5); Fort +7 Ref +1 Will +2

10th: Rogue 1: Sneak atk +1d6, trapfinding. Dump all skill points into Hide. Bloodline: Speak with animals 1/day.
Gear: +1 shock, frost lt xbow, cloak of resistance +3, 96gp
Stats: HP: 54 AC: 21 BAB +7, Ranged Atk +7; Hide +10 (9); Fort +8 Ref +4 Will +3

11th: Fighter 5: Bloodline: Fey affinity +4
Gear: Gloves of Dexterity +4 (Dex 11), 5096gp
Stats: HP: 60 AC: 21 BAB +8, Ranged Atk +9; Hide +11 (9.5); Fort +8 Ref +5 Will +3

12th: Bloodline level: gain HP, no BAB or saves; feat: Lightning Reflexes; ability modifier: +1 Dex (12); Bloodline: Invisibility 1/day
Gear: +1 shock, frost, flaming lt xbow, Amulet of Health +4 (Con 12), 4096gp
Stats: HP: 78 AC: 22 BAB +8, Ranged Atk +10; Hide +12 (9.5); Fort +9 Ref +7 Will +3

13th: Fighter 6: Bonus feat: Precise Shot; Bloodline: +2 Perform checks
Gear: Cloak of resistance +5, 12096gp
Stats: HP: 84 AC: 22 BAB +9, Ranged Atk +11; Hide +13 (10); Fort +12 Ref +10 Will +6

14th: Fighter 7: Bloodline: DR 1/cold iron
Gear: 52096gp
Stats: HP: 91 AC: 22 BAB +10, Ranged Atk +12; Hide +13 (10.5); Fort +12 Ref +10 Will +6

15th: Fighter 8: Bonus feat: Greater Weapon Focus: Light crossbow; feat: Power Critical: light crossbow; Bloodline: +1 Wis (4)
Gear: +1 brilliant energy, shock, frost, flaming lt xbow, 4096gp
Stats: HP: 98 AC: 22 BAB +11, Ranged Atk +13; Hide +14 (11); Fort +13 Ref +10 Will +6

16th: Fighter 9: Ability modifier: +1 Dex (13); Bloodline: Deep slumber 1/day (DC 9)
Gear: Amulet of Health +6 (Con 14), Ring of evasion, +1 improved shadow full plate, 13846gp
Stats: HP: 125 AC: 22 BAB +12, Ranged Atk +14; Hide +19 (11.5); Fort +14 Ref +11 Will +7

17th: Fighter 10: Bonus feat: Power Critical: light crossbow; Bloodline: fey affinity +6
Gear: +1 brilliant energy, shock, frost, flaming, thundering lt xbow, +5 improved shadow full plate, Ring of Protection +4, 5846gp
Stats: HP: 133 AC: 29 BAB +13, Ranged Atk +15; Hide +20 (12); Fort +15 Ref +11 Will +7

18th: Fighter 11: feat: Sharp-Shooting; Bloodline: Speak with plants 1/day
Gear: Ring of Protection +5, +5 greater shadow mithral full plate, Gloves of Dex +6 (15), +4 animated large mithral shield, 3096gp
Stats: HP: 142 AC: 33 BAB +14, Ranged Atk +17; Hide +29 (12.5); Fort +15 Ref +11 Will +7

19th: Fighter 12: Bonus feat: Greater Weapon Specialization: Light crossbow; Bloodline: +2 Bluff checks
Gear: +5 animated large mithral shield, manual of gainful exercise +2 (Str 5), 75096gp
Stats: HP: 150 AC: 34 BAB +15, Ranged Atk +18; Hide +29 (13); Fort +16 Ref +12 Will +8

20th: Ranger 1: Favored Enemy: Orcs, Goblins or the like, bonus feat: Track, wild empathy -3; ability modifier: +1 Dex (16); Bloodline: DR 5/cold iron
Gear: Manual of bodily health +4 (Con 18), Tome of understanding +5 (Wis 8), 7596gp
Stats: HP: 199 AC: 34 BAB +16, Ranged Atk +20; Hide +31 (15); Fort +18 Ref +14 Will +11

By my estimates, lowering all the base stats to 3 means that at 9th level archer can match the sample gnoll ranger 5 in the DMG. The 15th level gnoll ranger and him can trade blows, and both die at about the same time. Of course, this is only in archery. Anywhere else, this guy goes down hard. Take 20 to set up your hiding spot, and go prone while you wait. Fire on unsuspecting creatures. Drop 10lb rocks on them from a height of 50ft. If anything gets close, run. This really shouldn't be run as anything other than a one-shot PC in a defensive situation, when it has smarter folk around to tell it where to fall back to and prepare ambushes.

Story-wise, we have a dwarf child stolen by the faeries and replaced with this sickly, weak, animalistic creature. The dwarves are kindly, and slowly teach the creature to bear arms. Despairing of it ever entering combat in the traditional dwarven way, they give it a crossbow and plant it in a tower, telling it to 'shoot any not-dwarf.' The clan prospered, and gifts were given to the quasi-dwarf in appreciation of his skill with a crossbow and to placate the hidden fey.

Endnote:
A druid who somehow survived the early levels could just become a slightly more intelligent animal with wild shape; the problem is lasting that long.
And when I started this, there weren't any responses yet.
EDITED FOR: Whoa, where'd all the responses come from?

Quorothorn
2008-02-17, 06:02 AM
Soooo, you want to commit ritual suicide, eh? Make a dex check.

D'oh!

My aching left ribcage would like a word with you.

That word is "Harm".:smallamused:

Orzel
2008-02-17, 06:13 AM
If you roll very bad and you can't reroll, you play Wildshape non-spellcasting ranger.

It's the law.

Bayar
2008-02-17, 06:27 AM
I was thinking about a Orc barbarian 1/fighter rest. You get alot of feats, rage, +4 STR, but you would be the epitomy of epic fail against will saves...

Stats: STR 7, dex 3, con 3, Int 3 (always 3, cant drop lower), wis 1, cha 1.

this is more of a kamikaze version...as it would result in the characters death after the first encounter, since he only has 1 rage. You can go pure barbarian, but dunno...fighters get more feats...and some feats kick ass on their own :smallbiggrin:

Tengu
2008-02-17, 07:44 AM
If you roll very bad and you can't reroll, you play Wildshape non-spellcasting ranger.

It's the law.

You do realize that a Wildshape Ranger still has to wait to level 5 to get Wildshape?

Diamondeye
2008-02-17, 08:17 AM
I can't find anything in the warlock's class description that actually requires an ability score to simply operate. Perhaps a low-level warlock that fought mostly by summoning swarms and hiding in fog clouds and such could survive some well-planned fights, having turned from an evidently sadistic god to a devil that at least grants neat powers instead of crippling illnesses.

Not to disagree with the choice of warlock, but how would a character with a 3 in wisdom and intelligence conduct well-planned fights?

LCR
2008-02-17, 08:22 AM
He could be a manservant to an arrogant and sharp witted Elizabethan era nobleman.

Blackaaaaader, Blackaaaadder ...

TheSteelRat
2008-02-17, 08:27 AM
What about Druid 10 / Planar Sheperd 10? Wouldn't the ability to Wildshape into creatures with significantly greater mental stats actually allow them to use their casting, albiet you'd be dependent upon a) your animal companion till b) lvl 5 gives you Wildshape. Does the Druid's basic class abilities count as "cheese?" I know there's potential abuse once you get Planar Sheperd due to being able to Wish yourself daily for +1 to attributes, so you'd become all 8's + level increases, bringing yourself into the area of being able to cast with the help of Owl's Insight (it's +8, right?), Periapt of Wisdom, or Owl's Wisdom. Basically, so long as you've got natural spell, most animals have higher wisdom than you do.

Btw... beyond having penalties at skills, saves, hp, attack, and damage, doesn't a dex of 3 have no effect on movement?

Besides Animals, if you'd want to ever be somewhat smart, there's aberrations with good casting attributes. Using the Aberrant Blood / Aberrant Wildshape combo could help as well if there are any intelligent ones available. Beast Totem / Beast Shape also gives this advantage.

PS - What about a Vow of Poverty Druid build for this? Don't have Exalted Deeds, so not sure if there's an attribute requirement for it.

Ellisthion
2008-02-17, 08:46 AM
Heh, back in 1st Ed a friend of mine, in a game I was running, rolled 3, 3, 3, 5, 4, 18... in that order. And hence was born the 18 Cha "Bobby the Bimbo", female human fighter. Due to luck, she killed more than anyone else... although, technically, such a character could not exist in 1st ed, since she was banned from every class.

Swooper
2008-02-17, 09:35 AM
Blackaaaaader, Blackaaaadder ...
Wow. Your avatar reeks of awesome manliness. Woof! :smallbiggrin:

Armoury99
2008-02-17, 10:34 AM
Backstory is, you've been pathetic in everything all your life, so you were easily convinced by some apostle to make a pact with some sort of infernal being for power, and are now on a deluded quest to prove that you have become stronger than anyone.

Take Leadership at 6th level. Your cohort is the apostle that converted you. The apostle is the brains of the operation, acting like a minion while really calling the shots (and allowing you to actually do intelligent things during play).

You know, as time goes on, I'm starting to feel quite attached to this enfeebled, idiot-savant wannabe hero... he might actually have to be a villain in my next campaign.


Heh, back in 1st Ed a friend of mine, in a game I was running, rolled 3, 3, 3, 5, 4, 18... in that order.

I love generating statistics on 3d6 in order. In fact, I still use it. 'cos you definately get a character with character. :smallsmile:

bugsysservant
2008-02-17, 10:57 AM
1.Become a wizard.
2.Sell your spell book.
3.Pay someone to someone PAO you into something with a permanent duration and better stats. To qualify for permanent you may need to take a bloodline or something, but if you are a human with flaws, you still get 3 unused feats. The remainder should probably go to toughness, just for the hps.
4.???
5.Profit!

AmberVael
2008-02-17, 11:01 AM
So I was thinking to myself about this puzzle, and for a while I couldn't really find a class that would be effective without at least one high score.
Mundane combatants seem out to me- they're far too handicapped in comparison to what they could be, and one might as well go with the warlock, since they at least get invocations and touch attacked based EB blasts.
On the other hand, most spellcasting classes are straight out, since it'll take you heaps of effort, money, and levels to get your abilities up to a passable stat that will allow you to cast spells. As for using animal companions and the like, I've always thought that was just cheap, so I wanted to avoid that idea.

Of course, that left me with more skill based classes, and while a skill monkey might be the best way to go, you're still not going to be extremely effective in combat.

So here are my two thoughts, on examining the other, less well known classes:

Dragonfire Adept.
-Like the warlock, they don't actually require any stats to work, and they have a one up on the warlock as well, namely that their staple ability doesn't require an attack roll at all. Sure, with the terrible save you'll have on it, people will be taking half damage all the time, but better half than none, yes? To overcome the problem of people with evasion, you'll have to rely on invocations, namely Scalding Gust (which allows no save no matter what, even if it does do a pitiful amount of damage).
Furthermore, as a dragonblood creature, you can pick up some Draconic Auras to boost your friends (and yourself) a respectable amount.
Some of the feats you can take will allow you to boost your HP and possibly the Save DC on your dragon breath (draconic heritage feats work nicely for this purpose) and you can also focus on pumping your UMD skill to get the use of some wands and scrolls. Go take some flaws to help you get more feats- it's not like making yourself worse in the other areas will make you die any faster. :smalltongue:

Truenamer
-Yes, I said it. That terrible class is back and it wants your pocket change. The key here is that while normally it is terrible, it's entirely skill based, so while your ability scores will be a set back, it won't prevent you from doing things. You can still boost the skill in obscene ways, so that handicap will be overcome fairly quickly.
At level three your first priority will be to get an item familiar. This familiar will do all the thinking for you once it becomes intelligent, AND it will boost your truespeak skill via use of its investing.
Focus on boosting other people to win with this class- they won't get a save because they won't be making one, allowing you to be effective without needing the high save that comes with charisma.
It won't be great, sure, but it's better than being a fighter wandering around with your pants on backwards.

Benejeseret
2008-02-17, 11:40 AM
Since I am on a spellthief blitz lately I'll say spellthief.

Go will feats that improve saves. Perhaps start as a dwarf for the spell save boost.

Hang out with a spell caster.

Touch him, and suddenly have the ability to throw around spells like the best of them (at the stolen caster's level etc). Likewise steal spells from enemies whenever you can and hopefully absorb what is thrown at you.

mabriss lethe
2008-02-17, 02:43 PM
I may have to go with a little trick I figured out a while back.

step 1: 1st level... Doesn't matter what class. pick Death devotion as one of your feats.

step 2: Use the feat at the first opportunity

Step 3: Fall on your sword. Fail your save, you may not even have to do it intentionally.

Step 4: Rise as a level 1 wight from Libris Mortis. Your Con score is now 0. You're immune to lots of stuff and your monster level progression will take some of the suck out of all those 3 ability scores.

Miles Invictus
2008-02-17, 05:11 PM
It sounds like crazy talk, but a Dragon Shaman might do all right. With the exception of Touch of Vitality, none of their class features depend on stats. The auras can help compensate for your penalties, and more importantly they give untyped bonuses to your party.

Power: Melee types love you. Two-weapon melee types love you twice as much.
Presence: The diplomancer becomes a bit more awesome.
Senses: Improved listen, spot, and initiative for everyone.
Vigor: Everyone starts a battle with at least half their hit points; the cleric becomes even less of a walking band-aid.

Some of the adaptations are pretty nice, too. Especially once you hit 13th level, and can apply the benefits to the entire party. I would suggest going with a black dragon totem for the skills, or a copper dragon totem for the adaptation.

You won't be anywhere close to good, but you'll still have a positive effect on the party.

Orzel
2008-02-17, 06:30 PM
You do realize that a Wildshape Ranger still has to wait to level 5 to get Wildshape?


Of course. That's why you take track a werebeast and...

SofS
2008-02-17, 11:16 PM
Not to disagree with the choice of warlock, but how would a character with a 3 in wisdom and intelligence conduct well-planned fights?

Voices in his head doing the planning for him?
The woodland creatures (who are his only) friends standing around and helping him make the necessary Intelligence and Wisdom checks?
Seeing as creatures with 3 Int might count as animals (can't remember right now), maybe he invests in the Handle Animal skill and teaches himself the trick "make good plans".




Use your imaginations.

Overlord
2008-02-18, 12:14 AM
Well, I think that Warlock/Dragonfire Adept is probably the best choice, I'll throw another option out there: Bard.

Specifically, Bard/Sublime Chord. AFAIK, bardic music is not reliant upon ability scores, except maybe for save DCs--it's reliant upon skill checks. While you've got a -3 Cha, that's only a -4 to perform. You can overcome that easily.

Also, you should definitely play a race that has a multitude of racial ability score penalties. When you have a 3 in a score, an ability score penalty at character creation can't take you below 3, to my knowledge. If I'm correct, that means ability score penalties mean nothing to this character. Looking at the Crystalkeep index, here are some tasty-looking choices:

Elans have only a -2 to charisma, and no bonus. But their extra abilities are complete freebies if you aren't paying the -2 charisma for them.

Arctic Dwarves take a -4 penalty to Dex and a -2 to Cha in exchange for a +2 to Str and Con, numerous abilities. HAH!

The "Water Orc" Takes a -2 to Int, Wis, and Cha, but gets a +4 to Str and a +2 to Con. Plus they have a natural swim speed, and they don't even suffocate out of water like Aquatic races do! Score!

Norkers get a -2 to Int, Wis, and Cha, and a +2 to Dex and Con. More importantly, they get an enormous +5 natural armor class bonus, not to mention a +4 Move Silently bonus, and 30' movement despite being Small. Sweet! Plus, they have no LA! Sweeter!

And if you're willing to deal with a +4 LA, Warforged Chargers take a -6 to Int, a -4 to Wis, and a -8 to Cha, but get a whopping +10 to Str and Con, plus a bunch of warforged-related bonuses. Woah!

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-02-18, 12:24 AM
*slowclap*
filler

Idea Man
2008-02-18, 12:30 AM
I thought it was only Intelligence that was exempted from going below 3 at character creation.

Hmm, I see something in the half-orc description.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm#halfOrcs

Cuddly
2008-02-18, 12:32 AM
What's the most mechanically optimized character you can come up with, given that you have to start with a 3 in all stats? No game-breaking cheese. Your character advances as normal other than the 3 in all stats, has usual WBL, and gets the usual bonus stats as you go up in level (not that they'll help you much.)

You can aim for being effective at whatever level you want, or at being effective in whatever role you want, but characters that are effective (relatively) for more of their career and characters effective in a more useful role score more points. Er, if we were awarding points, which we aren't.

A character with a good or interesting background etc is worth points, too, but the real goal is to be at least remotely useful and effective in some role.

Emphasis mine.
Starting with 3 in all stats means just that; starting with a 3 in all stats. No racial help.

The_Snark
2008-02-18, 12:41 AM
Druid.

At low levels, you hang back and do nothing; you're far too inept to use spells or accomplish anything in combat. Fortunately, your pathetic ineptitude does not extend to your wolf animal companion, who is a pretty decent melee fighter. Probably decent enough to support you until level 5... at which point, wild shape means you don't have to worry about those physical stats anymore. Put feats into Improved Toughness to offset your Con penalty to hit points, and maybe later on take a few wild shape enhancing feats (not Natural Spell; things like). Stat increases should go to Con as well, with maybe a point or two devoted to Wisdom eventually if you have a stat-boosting item and want those 1st-level spells.

Then go into Master of Many Forms and Warshaper. You have nothing to lose, because it's not like you were casting spells anyway.

Roderick_BR
2008-02-18, 07:22 AM
I can't find anything in the warlock's class description that actually requires an ability score to simply operate. Perhaps a low-level warlock that fought mostly by summoning swarms and hiding in fog clouds and such could survive some well-planned fights, having turned from an evidently sadistic god to a devil that at least grants neat powers instead of crippling illnesses.
The problem is convincing a DM that your warlock with Int3 and Wis3 can make plans at all...

Now, if we did something like 8 on all stats (not crippled, only weak), now THAT would be an interesting challenge.

bugsysservant
2008-02-18, 07:35 AM
The problem is convincing a DM that your warlock with Int3 and Wis3 can make plans at all...

Now, if we did something like 8 on all stats (not crippled, only weak), now THAT would be an interesting challenge.

Would it help if the challenge was to instead play someone who took the flaw "idiot savant," where they are competent at optimizing themselves and can form plans and strategies, but treat all ability scores as 3s? The point is to find the class that is the least dependent on ability scores, and I think most people have seen that.

Artanis
2008-02-18, 01:15 PM
Commoner.

Find the nearest house cat and commence rolling new stats.