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Tempest Fennac
2008-02-17, 10:04 AM
Are Battle Sorceres a good choice if you want a melee warrior/Arcanist? I thought he fact that they can avoid Arcane Spell Failure with light armour while having a d8 HD and Rogue BAB would give them an edge over multi-class Sorcerers/Wizards and Fighters, but I thought the fact that they only have proficiency with 1 light or one-handed weapon while having a really small number of spells and slow progression would make them liabilities in combat.

Kurald Galain
2008-02-17, 10:15 AM
Essentially, no.

The problem with a sorcerer is that he knows not all that many spells for each level. The battle sorc is worse in that area.

I'd suggest playing a Duskblade instead.

Nebo_
2008-02-17, 10:30 AM
No.

A lot of people make the mistake of putting it in real gish builds thinking that the 1 point of BAB is worth munted casting.

Tempest Fennac
2008-02-17, 10:33 AM
Thanks for telling me. I find it strange that people would use it in Gish builds due to how it's already a combination of 2 classes. In regards to Duskblades, what are good choices for playing a class which has more of a focus on magic then fighting?

MorkaisChosen
2008-02-17, 10:47 AM
For slightly-fighty magical types, you probably want a level or two something with a decent unarmoured AC.

Animefunkmaster
2008-02-17, 10:55 AM
I would like to expand on this answer.

In a SRD only environment it is a viable option, over say bard. Mithril breastplate can be employed and more importantly armor enhancements and the medium bab will give you a slight edge.

Once you start adding more sources, like CW's Spell Sword (1 level dip), CM's Abjurant Champion or Stalwart Variant, ToB's Jade Phoenix Mage, CAr's Warlock, PHB2's Dusk Blade, or 5 Nation's Knight's Phantom the usefullness of a battle sorcerer decreases dramatically. Even then in most situations (sand Duskblade) you will still have a dip in a fighter.

or as MorkaisChosen said, you just want a dip in something that doesn't need armor... monk, ninja, swordsage, battle dancer are all base classes that offer bonuses to AC.

Not to mention you could always buy armor without arcane spell failure by use of mithril, or twilight, or githcraft.

Reinboom
2008-02-17, 11:01 AM
I would like to expand on this answer.

In a SRD only environment it is a viable option, over say bard. Mithril breastplate can be employed and more importantly armor enhancements and the medium bab will give you a slight edge.

Once you start adding more sources, like CW's Spell Sword (1 level dip), CM's Abjurant Champion or Stalwart Variant, ToB's Jade Phoenix Mage, CAr's Warlock, PHB2's Dusk Blade, or 5 Nation's Knight's Phantom the usefullness of a battle sorcerer decreases dramatically. Even then in most situations (sand Duskblade) you will still have a dip in a fighter.

Depends on the optimization level.
Ruathar and Dragonslayer both significantly allow fighter dips to be less needed.

Triaxx
2008-02-17, 11:18 AM
Monk is my Unarmored of choice since I play high Wisdom Sorcerors. I usually go two levels at least so I get Evasion.

Animefunkmaster
2008-02-17, 11:38 AM
Depends on the optimization level.
Ruathar and Dragonslayer both significantly allow fighter dips to be less needed.

Agreed. However, I have always found dragon slayer to be less than optimal, with its feat pre reqs. Don't get me wrong, if it is the difference between having 9th level spells or not, I would take it. but two feats spent to gain 1 more caster level has never seemed too worth it to me.

Ruathar is another option to make weapon proficiency not a situation, but it still doesn't let you qualify for spell sword, Eldritch Knight or knight phantom. But is still good for Abjurant Champions.

Edit: Might I sugest looking into battle dancer if you are looking into unarmored sorcerer. Cha to AC +1 bab and improved unarmed strike at level 1, sign me up. May or may not stack with monk and the monk/sorcerer aesthetic feat (?aethetic mage?).

Zincorium
2008-02-17, 12:46 PM
Battle sorcerers are a real mixed bag, and in terms of spells...duh, they're not as good. That's why it's even close to balanced.

Here is why you might want to use battle sorceror-

Battle Caster and mithril plate mail.

Builds that focus on a single spell anyway (abjurant champion or swiftblade)

Builds that are going to lose a lot of caster levels anyway (swiftblade)

Playing in a low level game where there's a good chance the tanks will not be able to protect your otherwise squishy self.


And then there's the fact that in Gish builds it actually allows you to get higher level spells before a regular sorc. A fighter 1/battle sorcerer 4/spellsword 1/abjurant champion 5/knight phantom (for example) will end up casting as an 18th level battle sorcerer with 19 BAB.

With a regular sorcerer, you will lose BAB or caster levels- and if you lose even a single casting level more than the above build, you won't get 9th level spells pre-epic (without the kobold sorcerer cheese). Your only choice is to sack BAB.

Tempest Fennac
2008-02-17, 01:42 PM
Thanks for the advice (I'll look up Battle Dancers later).

Starsinger
2008-02-17, 01:49 PM
Edit: Might I sugest looking into battle dancer if you are looking into unarmored sorcerer. Cha to AC +1 bab and improved unarmed strike at level 1, sign me up. May or may not stack with monk and the monk/sorcerer aesthetic feat (?aethetic mage?).

May I inquire as to where that's from? Although I have a sinking suspicion you're about to break my heart and say some issue of Dragon Magazine..

Kimi11
2008-02-17, 02:02 PM
May I inquire as to where that's from? Although I have a sinking suspicion you're about to break my heart and say some issue of Dragon Magazine..

DragMag#159/DragComp p26


http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=320889

Tempest Fennac
2008-02-17, 02:08 PM
Where exactly are Battle Dancers mentioned on that page, Kimi11? I couldn't see them anywhere.