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Duskrider_Moogle
2004-07-01, 12:43 AM
Wow. Forget my previous theory, we're not even gonna NEED divine intervention to mess with this relationship :P

That said, Durkon's look on the last panel is priceless.

So what are the odds that Hilgya is still around by the time they get back to the party?

The Voice of Mod: Edited the "teh" out of the title. There will be no use of l334 on my board! :P ;)

The Voice of the Dude who Made the Topic: It's not l33t, merely a little rearrangement of letters! But if you insist...however, Kirby insisted on making an appearance.

ShadowDragon8685
2004-07-01, 12:55 AM
Hilgya's Chaotic is showing...

Musrum
2004-07-01, 01:29 AM
So is her Evil!!

What's the odds that hubby is from Durkon's clan?

fendermallot
2004-07-01, 01:34 AM
or a close relation... hehe

go go married harlot!

Matuse
2004-07-01, 02:08 AM
Is that Durkon, or Michael Douglas?

I guess I feel most sorry for Ivan...he was sweet, but she tried to (apparently repeatedly) poison him...yikes.

ShadowDragon8685
2004-07-01, 02:46 AM
It's only been established that she's Chaotic, not nessessarily Evil.

Granted, Poisoning someone is usually considered evil, but if she was really, really pissed off enough... I mean, she said she coulden't stand the guy...

Wanderer
2004-07-01, 07:39 AM
Nah. Maybe I'm biased, but I doubt a chaotic evil character would be able to restrain themselves long enough to manage something like this. It would be more like... "Oh look, there's a cute little bunny hopping through the dungeon. FLAMESTRIKE! Muahahahahaha! How I love the smell of burning fur in the morning!"

Of course, I could be prejudiced since the other folks I roleplay with once made themselves a chaotic evil party, that proceeded to slaughter entire towns just for the fun of it...

mossfoot
2004-07-01, 09:00 AM
Crossbow wedding, huh? ;)

Well, part of me says "I can see this won't work out. I remember when Fry (in Futuruama) was having a good time with Amy until she said, "I like hanging out with you", and then he freaked out. Could be something like that"

Part of me thinks of Vir (from Babylon 5) who was engaged to be married to a woman, who was nice and pleasant and charming, but also killed hundreds of Narns and blankly thought nothing of the fact. "Maybe we can work it out. All relationships have problems."

;) Either way, it's going to be funny, and one heck of a ride, I think.

Caledonian
2004-07-01, 09:14 AM
Ah, yes, Durkon's first glimpse of the Wonderful World of Intimate Relationships.

First, there's the fun.
Then come the nightmarish revelations and the crushing responsibilities.

Just imagine the new things he'll experience if Hilgya is now with child! Oh, the things he'll do and the places he'll go!

Starbuck_II
2004-07-01, 10:55 AM
She is either Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral.
Neurtal would be alignment if she didn't think of Poison herself.

If an outside force motivates you toward evil act then you are Chaotic Neutral, but if yu think of it yourself you are evil!

Its what the Player's handbook says :P

Fry married once didn't he? Fish girl but she couldn't put out. (Fish don't have sex sadly)

Alarra
2004-07-01, 11:01 AM
Fry did indeed marry. Hey cool! I've actually seen that episode. I have seen so few episodes of that show that the fact that I can actually comment on one amazes me.

Duskrider_Moogle
2004-07-01, 11:14 AM
Granted, Poisoning someone is usually considered evil, but if she was really, really pissed off enough... I mean, she said she coulden't stand the guy...

The guy seemed like a nice person, though, and it seemed like she was overreacting. Offering someone a foot massage doesn't really qualify as "crushing their spirit", methinkupos

Scorpina
2004-07-01, 11:14 AM
Fry married once didn't he? Fish girl but she couldn't put out. (Fish don't have sex sadly)

Which of course leads us to ask "How do merfolk make babies?"

The Giant
2004-07-01, 11:20 AM
She is either Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral.
Neurtal would be alignment if she didn't think of Poison herself.

If an outside force motivates you toward evil act then you are Chaotic Neutral, but if yu think of it yourself you are evil!

Fascinating, but quite untrue. A character does not become Evil the moment they think of or perform an Evil action. Whether or not you think of something yourself is also irrelevent; there is no "I was following orders" exception on Evil acts.

Scorpina
2004-07-01, 11:22 AM
...Unless you're under a Geas.

Alarra
2004-07-01, 11:23 AM
Which of course leads us to ask "How do merfolk make babies?"
They had an explanation for that...which is what made Fry freak out in the first place....sadly i cannot remember what it was.

AngelSword
2004-07-01, 11:29 AM
Well, you see, the male fish ejects his seed into the water, and the female absorbs it into her egg sac, fertilizing them in the process.

There was also the episode that Fry made it with his grandmother.
"Yep, I did the nasty in the pasty."

>_>
<_<

Who thinks that Helgya is actually Durkon's grandmother?

mossfoot
2004-07-01, 11:32 AM
Well, not to side track this any more than need be, but she would lay the eggs and Fry would pass over them and fertilize them.

(cut to Fry running from the merbabe's home as fast as possible)

(got all 5 seasons, seen them more times than I care to admit ;) Course I could be wrong... I've only seen that episode twice )

back on topic: I would so not want to be Durkon right now. In all likelyhood the term "screwed" just took on a whole new meaning for him. ;D

(okay a bit out of line, but I couldn't resist)

Scorpina
2004-07-01, 11:33 AM
"Oh great, a lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm My Own Grampa!" ;D

Wouldn't Helgya be significantly older than Durkon, if that were the case?

AngelSword
2004-07-01, 11:36 AM
Well, dwarves are all funky anyway. I'm surprised she doesn't have a beard of some sort. :P

BollaertN
2004-07-01, 11:39 AM
I would place her Alignment as Chaotic Neutral. She is completely and blindly self-centered, to the extent that she interpreted her Husband's actions as truly 'stifling.'

She chose poison, not because she is 'evil' - her actions were really not intended to cause harm for the sake of causing harm, or because she held real malice for her husband, but rather she is so selfish that she simply chose the most expedious option to get what she wants - in this case it would be her husband's death, and when that failed, chose the next most expedious option, to run away.

Doug
2004-07-01, 12:09 PM
I would place her Alignment as Chaotic Neutral. She is completely and blindly self-centered, to the extent that she interpreted her Husband's actions as truly 'stifling.'

She chose poison, not because she is 'evil' - her actions were really not intended to cause harm for the sake of causing harm, or because she held real malice for her husband, but rather she is so selfish that she simply chose the most expedious option to get what she wants - in this case it would be her husband's death, and when that failed, chose the next most expedious option, to run away.


Selfishness to the extent that you will kill others for your own benifit is Evil in D&D3.x terms.

To quote the rules: "Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without qualms if doing so is convenient."

Sounds like what we see to me.

CE does not mean ravening maniac any more than CN means insane.

JD
2004-07-01, 12:33 PM
Ah poor Durkon, I would be very careful around her now ("Eh.. A sanwich? May I cast Detect Poison? Whaddaya mean 'no'!?").

I so hope that he leaves in the middle of the night, rejoins the Order (of the Stick) and declares that Elan will have to take his role as cleric. ALL BOW TO BANJO THE CLOWN ("He's called Banjo because he has a litte...." "Yeah I get it")


EDIT: Lets dance!

(>'.')> <('.'<)

BollaertN
2004-07-01, 01:29 PM
Selfishness to the extent that you will kill others for your own benifit is Evil in D&D3.x terms.

To quote the rules: "Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without qualms if doing so is convenient."


While that is true, and equally as valid an interpretation, I still tend to give her the benefit of the doubt, because her outlook seems more capricious than steadafstly evil. I suppose the argument could be made she's on the cusp of both Alignments.

Generally speaking, Alignments in D&D are objective rather than subjective, so you can definitely make a strong case for Evil.

But for me the matter of her apparent lack of insight is a potential mitigating factor. For example, if she REALLY believed that her husban doting on her, loving her, and trusting her, was indicative that he was a horrible person out to crush her spirit, I would doubt she has the mental capacity to choose evil. In modern parlance, she might be a sociopath or otherwise clinically mentally ill. And while she may be capable of great acts that are evil, I tend to reserve the title of Evil for those whose actions are not mitigated by mental imbalance.

On the other hand, this is a lot of deep speculation for a well-drawn stick figure comic strip, deisgned to be humorous, so I freely admit I'm reading WAY too much into it :-)

Tzor
2004-07-01, 01:54 PM
Crossbow wedding? I'm seeing a good case for an annulment here. My guess is that this happened before her conversion to Loki, but if not that's also grounds for an annulment, since I doubt that any priests of Loki would officiate at the crossbow wedding of a priestess of Loki.

Of course the poisoning the husband is a bummer.

On the other hand, she choose Durkon of her own free will, so she might be safe as long as you do the cooking and never ever ask if she wants her feet massaged.

Still, there's no reason they can't be "friends." ;D

BollaertN
2004-07-01, 02:22 PM
Still, there's no reason they can't be "friends." ;D

Friends with Benefits, even! :-p

However, I suspect this will not end well.

Duskrider_Moogle
2004-07-01, 03:45 PM
However, I suspect this will not end well.

Mmm. Since there's all this talk about Futurama (which I love also), lemme throw in a Bender quote that sums up what is probably going to happen, any way you slice it:

"Comedy's a dead artform. Now tragedy...heh, heh, heh, THAT's funny."

GypsyThorn
2004-07-01, 05:05 PM
Okay, it's right-wing, fundamentalist religion time here in the Not-so-Okie-dokie Corral!

So, what happened here? Durkon listened to the voice of temptation, and succumbed to the evils of un-married intimacy! For shame, for shame, thus shall he be verily punished!

BUT!!!!!

He can't die the heinous death he doth truly deserve, due to the fact that he's not Janet Leigh. But already he is seeing how badly he's erred, and already he's realizing the depth of his sin.

So, Hilgya (sorry, didn't remember the spelling) is due for a cosmic-sized put down, so that we can all learn the lesson that out-of-wedlock intimacy, even if it is of the sweet dwarven kind, must never be tolerated, and thusly shall all who engage in it be punished.

Wow, I never knew right-wing, religous fundemtalist ranting could be so invigorating! Who's got a beer?

Matuse
2004-07-01, 05:16 PM
"Why couldn't she be the one with the fishy part on top, and the lady part on bottom?" -Fry

Then later:

"Well, I found that I loved her, but I wasn't IN love with her" -Fry
whispering"Trouble in bed" - Amy
*nods* - Leela

And my all time favorite Bender quote: "Life is hilariously cruel".

Nim
2004-07-01, 05:44 PM
Poor, poor Durkon. I really feel sorry for him. There's just so many problems: the "already married" thing, the fact that she seems either CN or CE, and I think he's LG, her interpretation of foot massages as unkind, the opposed deities . . .

Of course, because I'm a hopeless romantic, I think this will all work out. But it probably won't.

Sonofapreacherman
2004-07-01, 06:53 PM
Is it just me, or does Ivan bare a striking resemblance to The Giant's avatar (sans glasses, fuller beard, slightly darker hair)?

Is Rich trying to tell us about a really nasty girlfriend from his past?

ShadowDragon8685
2004-07-01, 06:56 PM
Poor Durkon..

Of course, he might be able to turn her to the Light... Or slap a Helm of Opposite Alignment on her head. At the least, it'll Lawfulize her, and if the worst-case scenario is already prevalant, it'll make her Lawful Good. :)

Duskrider_Moogle
2004-07-01, 08:52 PM
Of course, he might be able to turn her to the Light... Or slap a Helm of Opposite Alignment on her head. At the least, it'll Lawfulize her, and if the worst-case scenario is already prevalant, it'll make her Lawful Good. :)

Oh man. What if Elan uses the gender-belt on her?

Hilarity would ensue!

mossfoot
2004-07-01, 08:55 PM
Poor Durkon..

Of course, he might be able to turn her to the Light... Or slap a Helm of Opposite Alignment on her head. At the least, it'll Lawfulize her, and if the worst-case scenario is already prevalant, it'll make her Lawful Good. :)


Ah, but wouldn't that be an evil act?

I started a thread about that elsewhere that just never seemed to end. It all boiled down to arguements about the ends justifying the means. After all, by putting the Helm of Alignment change on her, you are changing who she is against her will (let's assume she wouldn't willingly put it on). Some people compared it to brainwashing. Others claimed it was a removal of free will. Still others said you were doing them a favor and it wasn't wrong at all. Hey, I'm not here to judge ;)

As for GypsyThorne's "right wing" argument... I can't think of a better reason for the exact opposite to happen (though perhaps not right away) :)

Musrum
2004-07-02, 01:20 AM
It would be an evil act in today's society, but a good act in the D&D fantasy setting.

Musrum
2004-07-02, 01:21 AM
Oh man. What if Elan uses the gender-belt on her?

Hilarity would ensue!

I think Elan is saving that little toy for hirself...

Yellow
2004-07-02, 04:06 AM
Poor little virgin Durkon.. ;D

Anyone else notice she doesn't seem to have any cleavage? I guess Giant didn't want to get that detailed.. XD

Hopefully it does work out, but that expression Durkon has seems to show just how inexperienced he is... they always tell you the bad stuff AFTER you can't escape. (without being considered a deadbeat anyway.. :P)

ShadowDragon8685
2004-07-02, 04:38 AM
Ummmm, it could also be because the cover is up over her. :)

Hehehe. Yeah, I figure Elan's going to take off for a week after they get out of this dungeon, to a private inn room to have some exploration.

Doggie
2004-07-02, 05:36 AM
Eeeaaaahhhh!

That's disturbing.

Nim
2004-07-02, 09:42 AM
Just about every comic this week has been disturbing, why shouldn't we be disturbing about them?

Tzor
2004-07-02, 11:35 AM
Of course, because I'm a hopeless romantic, I think this will all work out. But it probably won't.

But almost by definition the characters of OOTS are flat two dimensional characters. It's sort of like a bad sci fi TV seiries where everything sort of has to reset by the end of the epsiode so that they don't have to change the character concept.

It almost seems necessary that all good things must end, and end with a sour note. Elan and Nale being the best example.

My guess is she finally runs off with Banjo the Clown. :P

(Note my record on guesses is exactly 0%)

mossfoot
2004-07-02, 12:32 PM
But almost by definition the characters of OOTS are flat two dimensional characters. It's sort of like a bad sci fi TV seiries where everything sort of has to reset by the end of the epsiode so that they don't have to change the character concept.

It almost seems necessary that all good things must end, and end with a sour note. Elan and Nale being the best example.

My guess is she finally runs off with Banjo the Clown. :P

(Note my record on guesses is exactly 0%)


You have a good point. For most strips I would agree, but if there is one thing The Giant manages to do really well, is both do exactly what you would expect (in terms of general direction) and throw you a curve ball at the same time (in the details and how it ultimately turns out).

The introduction and build up of OOTS against the Linear Guild being a perfect example. You KNEW these were the evil alternate universe Star Trek opposites, you KNEW there would be an eventual double cross, but almost everything else came as a surprise.

My guess, she'll have to leave Durkon for some reason, but nothing fatal, though possibly tragic in its circumstances. However, she will come back at some key point in the future.

Zherog
2004-07-02, 01:24 PM
However, she will come back at some key point in the future.

And she'll be expecting! ;D

That should make for some interesting art - a pregnant stick figure!

Nim
2004-07-02, 01:27 PM
There should be spells only used by midwives that are like pregnancy tests.


Well, it makes sense to my strange mind!

Rashna
2004-07-02, 03:48 PM
In any scenario with female magic users, a spell would have been developed long ago to banish those inconvenient feminine monthly events.

"Prevention of Pregnancy" might be an extension of that effect, or its own spell found under the Protection or Trickery domain (hehe)

Maybe there's even an orison for "Remove Unsightly Body Hair"...

Nim
2004-07-02, 03:54 PM
What about the controversial spell Abort, which is illegal in some places, and used to be done illegally and unsafely with other material components (the safe ones are very expensive)?

Scorpina
2004-07-02, 04:02 PM
Actually, I think "Lesser Abort" is used by most illegal practicioners, and has a higher chance of causeing problems then "Abort" and "Greater Abort" used by legal professionals.

Nim
2004-07-02, 04:04 PM
Oh, yes, that makes more sense. And of course, the material component for Lesser Abort is a coat hanger.

Matuse
2004-07-02, 05:16 PM
And people were commenting that the comic had delved into shady territory...the board women are CRAZY!!!!

Scorpina
2004-07-02, 05:30 PM
And people were commenting that the comic had delved into shady territory...the board women are CRAZY!!!!


Yes, but we're a good kind of crazy. ;) :-*

Rodrick_the_Red
2004-07-02, 06:47 PM
I like your kind of crazy. ;) :-*

Also, thanks for the insight of how female spell casters would use their spells. I am starting a new character and will incorporate them.

Oh, better add:

I think we are missing somethnig important;

Elan was RIGHT about something, Hilgya did LIKE Durkon and he was so "in" OotS #52

This has shaken my faith in the order of the universe.

(Whew, back on topic)

Vaal
2004-07-02, 07:23 PM
Don't worry, Durkon! Love will always triumph! Even with the potential of her getting tired and killing you! Justice will find a way for your love to work! [/Ameria]

mossfoot
2004-07-02, 08:49 PM
You know the thing is, those spells all make good sense. I wonder if there is any official publication with them involved?

A wizard is kind of like a scientist, and like scientists here, there are going to be those interested in "pure" science and those interested in "practical" science. Spells, potions, scrolls, etc... that can make a quick buck by serving the needs of the merchant class and higher that can afford it.

Now, for political reasons, I doubt an "abort" spell will ever see print (though I think it should, it is addressing a reality after all). But contraceptive spells/potions/etc, "that time of the month", "unsightly hair removal", "weight loss", "eye correction" for people with bad eyesight, etc... are mundane things that could turn out a huge profit.

The Giant
2004-07-02, 10:30 PM
That's a great topic for discussion. Unfortunately, it's not THIS topic of discussion, which is OOTS. I encourage you to start a new Gaming thread devoted to feminine hygenie magic. (There's a sentence that has never been written before!)

Oh, and female dwarves would need Greater Remove Unsightly Body Hair. ;)

GypsyThorn
2004-07-03, 12:48 AM
...

Oh, and female dwarves would need Greater Remove Unsightly Body Hair. ;)

Why? remember the immortal words of O. Nash:

Behold the hippopotamus
We laugh at how he looks to us,
But he no doubt delights the eye,
of other hippopotami.

Mikey_Boy
2004-07-03, 07:39 AM
So what are the odds that Hilgya is still around by the time they get back to the party?

Personally, I was wondering what the odds are that Durkon is still around.

Mike

Nighthawk4
2004-07-03, 09:37 AM
Is it just me, or does Ivan bare a striking resemblance to The Giant's avatar (sans glasses, fuller beard, slightly darker hair)?

Is Rich trying to tell us about a really nasty girlfriend from his past?

Hehe - exactly what I thought when I first saw that strip ;)

Incidentally - Durkon is LG? - so isn't adultery against the Law?

Although I suppose he didn't actually know she was married until after the evil deed was done.

mossfoot
2004-07-03, 09:47 AM
Perhaps Thor will demand Durkon to perform a quest in penance or lose his powers? Or he WILL lose his powers until he completes the quest...

...leaving everyone else to rely on Banjo!

Zagaroth
2004-07-03, 11:50 AM
actually, she's the one commiting the sin of adultery, since she is the one who is married. Durkon hadn't taken any vows...

evileeyore
2004-07-03, 03:50 PM
While that is true, and equally as valid an interpretation, I still tend to give her the benefit of the doubt, because her outlook seems more capricious than steadafstly evil. I suppose the argument could be made she's on the cusp of both Alignments.

Huh? The 'capricious' bit is all Choas. The 'commit murders' before attempting nicer ways (like running away) is the Evil bit.

Had she tried to run first, and resorted to murder as a last resort i would agree to CN. However the methods aside, she went straight for murder. Evil.

Eeeeevvviiiiiiilllll, I say.




But for me the matter of her apparent lack of insight is a potential mitigating factor. For example, if she REALLY believed that her husban doting on her, loving her, and trusting her, was indicative that he was a horrible person out to crush her spirit, I would doubt she has the mental capacity to choose evil.

Agian, huh? I see no lack of mental capacity, just selfishness. She was probably lying to poor Durokon. It would make her look less evil, remember she knows Durokon is a good guy. She just doesn't inherently understand that he would see running from marriage (even a horrible abusive one that she is trying to portray) as a bad thing.


In modern parlance, she might be a sociopath or otherwise clinically mentally ill. And while she may be capable of great acts that are evil, I tend to reserve the title of Evil for those whose actions are not mitigated by mental imbalance.

Hmmm, interesting view point. I see them as Evil, regardless of whether they choose Evil or not, and therefore all desrving of the Smite.


On the other hand, this is a lot of deep speculation for a well-drawn stick figure comic strip, deisgned to be humorous, so I freely admit I'm reading WAY too much into it :-)

Reading to much into things is fun.

--EvilE

evileeyore
2004-07-03, 04:03 PM
actually, she's the one commiting the sin of adultery, since she is the one who is married. Durkon hadn't taken any vows...

Yes and in Judeo/Catholic/Christian terms (generally), he is commiting adultery.*

By Jewish definition adultery is unlawful sex between a man and woman when at least one is married and the marriage is not to each other.

Christian and catholics pretty much hold the same view.

However Durkon is a faithful of Thor. As I recall Thor was pretty open about such things, but his clergy might not be. Also we must consider what are the laws of Durkon's clan? Adultery is probably against the Law.

Poor Durkon.

--Evil

*As I know it, and as is defined here (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&oi=defmore&q=define:adultery).

Arian
2004-07-03, 09:13 PM
Christian and catholics pretty much hold the same view.

ITYM "Protestants and Catholics". Catholics are Christians. Indeed, they've been Christians for longer than Protestants have. ;)

fendermallot
2004-07-04, 11:07 AM
since Durkon didnt know til after, would it still be considered adultery? More like coersion ;D

Nim
2004-07-04, 02:40 PM
Hilgya committed adultery by knowingly having sex with someone who was not her husband, even though she was married. However, Durkon did not commit adultery because he did not know Hilgya was married. Even if he had, he probably couldn't be considered an adulterer, as I think it was Hilgya who seduced Durkon, not the other way around.

The Giant
2004-07-04, 05:57 PM
ITYM "Protestants and Catholics". Catholics are Christians. Indeed, they've been Christians for longer than Protestants have. ;)

The Voice of Mod: Just a reminder that discussion of real-world religions are explicity Not On Topic for this board.

The Giant
2004-07-04, 08:24 PM
Also, since I'm going out ofr fireworks tonight, I posted the strip early. Happy Fourth of July, fellow American posters; sorry the strip is such a downer today.

Mizkyu
2004-07-04, 09:09 PM
Aw... poor Helgya... poor Durkon... *sniff* :'(

ShadowDragon8685
2004-07-04, 09:39 PM
Now his TRUE colors come out.

Specifically, he lies about here:



_______
__|__|__
XX|__|__
__|__|__



That's my way of taking a jab and calling him Lawful Heartless.

Bogotter
2004-07-04, 10:49 PM
Also, since I'm going out ofr fireworks tonight, I posted the strip early. Happy Fourth of July, fellow American posters; sorry the strip is such a downer today.

Yeah....that was kind of a downer......not much "comic" in that strip. [/cry]

Shadeogrey
2004-07-04, 11:48 PM
Just finished reading today's strip,
and I realised I am actually a dwarf.
Ack. Or it's just because I'm Asian.
And Lawful Neutral.

hooah! :)

Duskrider_Moogle
2004-07-04, 11:59 PM
:-[ And here I was beginning to think Durkon was all happy-go-lucky, but now I realize he's full of inner turmoil and stuff.

I hope Hilgya mellows him out.

Doggie
2004-07-05, 12:30 AM
Or we see Hilgya dissappear for a while. Recover from her grief.... but then that grief turns to hatred for being spurned by Durkon.
Thus begins her bloody rampage!

Grey Watcher
2004-07-05, 12:58 AM
Wow, poignancy. I feel bad for Helgya. Hasn't Durkon ever heard of "I love you, but your values suck."? (Great line from a Law and Order episode.)

Medesha
2004-07-05, 01:25 AM
I smell a recurring villain. Hell hath no fury and all that.

Doug
2004-07-05, 01:39 AM
She could become a recurring villian, or turn on Durkon, or be driven to even greater evil, but people forget that the Gods were watching. And D&D gods are nothing if not capricious and incompetent. (Seriously, that's why they always need a bunch of low to mid level PC's to save the world.)

Seeing them in love may provoke a Yuck from both Gods, but now that they are leaving each other I am betting that Thor suddenly says, "Wait you dummy, you could have redeamed her, she really loved you, that would really stick it to that bastard Loki, go back to her and try again". While Loki sees Durkon being unhappy that she has left and says, "Wait you dummy, you almost had him corrupted, go back and try again".

Arian
2004-07-05, 06:37 AM
The Voice of Mod: Just a reminder that discussion of real-world religions are explicity Not On Topic for this board.

Sorry, my bad. :-[

- Being a classicist, I'd normally use the expression "mea culpa"; but I wouldn't want to be thought to be making a religious reference! ;D

Grey Watcher
2004-07-05, 09:40 AM
Being a classicist, I'd normally use the expression "mea culpa"; but I wouldn't want to be thought to be making a religious reference! ;D

Religious references are OK, I think. It's full fledged discussions of religion that need their own thread.

Grey Watcher
2004-07-05, 09:41 AM
Seeing them in love may provoke a Yuck from both Gods, but now that they are leaving each other I am betting that Thor suddenly says, "Wait you dummy, you could have redeamed her, she really loved you, that would really stick it to that bastard Loki, go back to her and try again". While Loki sees Durkon being unhappy that she has left and says, "Wait you dummy, you almost had him corrupted, go back and try again".

Well, so much for that plotline.

mossfoot
2004-07-05, 10:29 AM
Ah, Love em and leave em Durkon ;)

I don't think we see a recurring villian here, though it might START out that way. But you know, I'm thinking we might see something special in the make. It wasn't funny (well, a bit in terms of dwarven attitude, but the emotion downplayed it), and when that happens, it's important to pay attention to the details, because the writer has a reason for it. If each character has (or will get) an overall major story arc that will come back again and again, we've just seen Durkon's.

Nighthawk4
2004-07-05, 12:54 PM
So what happens when he goes back to join the rest of the group - and finds that they don't need him now that Elan has multi-classed to Cleric of Banjo?


Of course, Elan still doesn't have the car headlights, to let him see in the dark. :(

The Giant
2004-07-05, 01:50 PM
Religious references are OK, I think. It's full fledged discussions of religion that need their own thread.

To be clear, full-fledged discussions of religion need their own message board. As in, don't have them here. :P That, and real-world politics are the first two entries on the "Not On This Board" hit parade.

Scorpina
2004-07-05, 02:17 PM
Aww...its so sad! :'(

Stupid Durkon and his stuffy old "duty". >:(

Prince_Stefano
2004-07-05, 06:39 PM
Poor guy who was supposed to be married. He looked really in love with her. If I was married to him I'd be happy I think.... and if I was a girl... and a Dwarf.... and if I lived in the Dwarven Lands.... and had a clan.... oh, nevermind.

Matuse
2004-07-05, 07:52 PM
Yeah....that was kind of a downer......not much "comic" in that strip.

Well, up until the bottom row, I found it quite funny.

"What the heck does happiness have to do wit bein a dwarf?"

"Ye sound like one of the humans with their 'if it feels groovy do it'"

Caleb
2004-07-05, 08:04 PM
Durkon, that's one Lawful Stupid bugger. :D

Duskrider_Moogle
2004-07-05, 08:12 PM
This is kind of surprising, though. Thor was all for wenching and wining. You wouldn't think a devotee of his would mind this so much.

Lilly
2004-07-05, 09:55 PM
Thor commanded him to go because of her.

(and if I keep thinking about that the comic dosen't make me cry)

Ravenproject
2004-07-06, 03:40 AM
Now, that's what I call a dwarf. Very well done Mr. Burlow. That's the way I always imagined the culture of the dwarfs.

JD
2004-07-06, 08:27 AM
Funniest Greatest comic yet, it really made one think... So funny great

The Giant
2004-07-06, 10:23 AM
This is kind of surprising, though. Thor was all for wenching and wining. You wouldn't think a devotee of his would mind this so much.

He's a dwarf first. You would have to think dwarven clerics of Thor would worship differently than human clerics.

Fezlin
2004-07-06, 10:31 AM
Wow, what happened? All on the serious tip. Very unexpected twist. Very cool. KUTGW (Keep up the good work)

Redrik
2004-07-06, 01:29 PM
What a bunch of sappy, sentimental crap. Rich should be smacked for this latest comic.

;) :P

Signed,
The Surly One ;D

Starbuck_II
2004-07-06, 01:56 PM
So anyone see Elan playing Matchmaker?

I loved the quote," My momma taught me that I should always take feelings like that, and bury them in a deep dark part of my soul. And never ever talk about them again. Its the Dwarven way."

Note: fixed for english dialect.

Wonder why the High preist hasn't called for him yet?

Redrik
2004-07-06, 04:46 PM
Wonder why the High preist hasn't called for him yet?

The long-distance charges suck, plus cel-phone reception in a deep dungeon like that is terrible!

The Giant
2004-07-06, 04:49 PM
Plus you have to roll on the Random Roaming Charge Generation table every tim you make a call.

Kashinn
2004-07-06, 05:14 PM
Plus you have to roll on the Random Roaming Charge Generation table every tim you make a call.

...which might have an especially bad outcome if your dice roll "Bastard Operator From Hell" - who settles the charge by taking your poor soul as payment - no credit cards accepted!

marketingman
2004-07-06, 06:37 PM
Well that what happens when the Lawful and chaotic make a booty call on each other..

Just goes to show talking ruins everything after sex.\

Don't ask don't tell it is not just for the military anymore ;)

Savienne
2004-07-06, 10:51 PM
Wow. How sad. Here's hoping that Thursday's is a little more upbeat.

Caleb
2004-07-06, 11:16 PM
Now, on an entirely different subject, I am going to complain a bit here:

Giant, why aren't you developing more on Haley, V, and most of all, Belkar? The other three characters have been mostly developed during the strip but I presume that you will balance it out soon enough, right? :D

Mikey_Boy
2004-07-07, 08:11 AM
Aww...its so sad! :'(

Stupid Durkon and his stuffy old "duty". >:(

Heh... one minute this board is all, "No, Durkon, don't stay with her! She's evil and she tried to murder her last partner!" and the next it's "Aww, Durkon should've stayed with her!"

Personally, I think ol' Durk's got off lightly. Hurrah for Dwarven duty!

Mike

Kashinn
2004-07-07, 08:18 AM
Yeah maybe Durkon got off lightly, but as he said himself: "What tha heck has happiness to do wit' bein' a dwarf?"

...conclusion: He should have let her stay, even if only so she could make his life miserable - making him a good, old-school dwarf.

...okay to be true I think they would have fit together quite well and could've been very happy...

mossfoot
2004-07-07, 10:36 AM
For all sad words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are those 'It might have been.'"

;)

The Giant
2004-07-07, 10:38 AM
Giant, why aren't you developing more on Haley, V, and most of all, Belkar? The other three characters have been mostly developed during the strip but I presume that you will balance it out soon enough, right? :D


All in good time. I would remind you that before this run of strips, Durkon was the least developed character.

Redrik
2004-07-07, 10:48 AM
Now, on an entirely different subject, I am going to complain a bit here:

Giant, why aren't you developing more on Haley, V, and most of all, Belkar? The other three characters have been mostly developed during the strip but I presume that you will balance it out soon enough, right? :D

Oh great another "character development balance" freak... Why don't you go back where you came from, troll!

Screw balance! I say make the story all about Roy! Roy in mithril armor carrying a +5 broadsword!

:P

(You really need an "angel" smiley. It would me so well :D )

Baron
2004-07-07, 11:08 AM
Oh great another "character development balance" freak... Why don't you go back where you came from, troll!


Baron Von Mod: Play nicely. Someone asking for something from the comic is no reason to hurl abuse at them. So don't.

Redrik
2004-07-07, 11:32 AM
*chuckles* sorry. Was mocking the "good old days" (I mean that sarcasticly) over at the WotC boards.

Zherog
2004-07-07, 01:29 PM
Redrik got in trouble! HA HA!
[/simpsons moment]

Redrik
2004-07-07, 05:21 PM
When don't I? :P

aynrandgirl
2004-07-07, 05:33 PM
I noticed that Hilgya's left braid was inexplicably longer than her right in #84, until she ran away from Durkon, when suddenly her right braid became longer.

[Looking back at previous installments, I see her braids seem to change length depending on what direction she's looking. Still, very odd]

Caleb
2004-07-07, 07:24 PM
Well, a girl's hair is only as long as the plot. :D

Doug
2004-07-08, 12:04 AM
So if Cuthulu is for when you are tired of the lesser of two evils when do you go for Banjuhlu?

When you are going for the least of all evils?

Matuse
2004-07-08, 12:05 AM
It really was only a matter of time before Cthulhu made it into OOTS...but I wasn't expecting it then. Poor Banjo, talk about your flash in the pan cult.

Lilly
2004-07-08, 12:10 AM
Thank you.

Espresto!
In crayon!

;D

Wanderer
2004-07-08, 12:49 AM
...Elan is scaring me now. Especially since he's figured out more of how to use his magic. ;)

Arian
2004-07-08, 04:06 AM
Wow. How sad. Here's hoping that Thursday's is a little more upbeat.

Naah, I thought it was great. If it's upbeat *all* the time, it can't be Art. ;-)

mossfoot
2004-07-08, 04:18 AM
Hmmm... if Banjo were to "magically" change someone's gender (Elan's belt), maybe the sudden spurt of "belief" would bring about Banjothulhu... er and the stars being right and all that stuff ;)

Kashinn
2004-07-08, 05:00 AM
..the good thing about "Banjulhu" is simply this:
If he's going to be awakened by dark priests in aeons to come - the dark priests first have to know about him. Since the cult had about 3 worshippers at its peak time, it's quite unlikely that there'll be a dark cult forming in the future - because simply no one knows about Banjuhlu (and his powers are -and have always been- too meager to attract any new worshippers).

...maybe we should really be paying more attention to Elan. We know his brain contains much unused space that Banjulhu can infest. Behold Elanyrlathatothep! Voice of Banjulhu!

Nighthawk4
2004-07-08, 08:34 AM
Never mind - 9 out of 10 new religions fail within the first year [Simpsons moment again]

Kapture
2004-07-08, 12:03 PM
Ha. Thank you, giant. Banjulhu made my day a little brighter

MacDude
2004-07-08, 12:09 PM
Luckily, I don't have a brain so Banjulhu can't drive me insane!

::)

Callista
2004-07-08, 12:26 PM
Yeah maybe Durkon got off lightly, but as he said himself: "What tha heck has happiness to do wit' bein' a dwarf?"

...conclusion: He should have let her stay, even if only so she could make his life miserable - making him a good, old-school dwarf.

...okay to be true I think they would have fit together quite well and could've been very happy...
Uh-huh. Kinda like Elan and Nale's parents? Suuuure...

And to add my opnion to the growing list of opinions about Helgya's alignment (as though there weren't enough opinions as it is!):

It's not a matter of alignment. It's a matter of Charisma.

If we hadn't met Helgya, we'd all say that attempting to murder your husband, then seducing another man (dwarf?) was an Evil act. So why do we so want not to peg her as Evil?

Simple: We like Helgya. It's the way she says things, the innocent way she does things, that makes us think, "Hey, this dwarf chick is pretty cool. She must've had some good reason for wanting to kill her husband." That's Charisma, not alignment.

Heads up, guys, and roll Sense Motive checks.

I'll admit that a high Charisma isn't all that common in a dwarf. But then, you don't meet all that many who are either Chaotic or Evil, either; and Helgya is both.

And yes, I like Helgya too. I've always liked dwarves, and you've got to admit the girl has got some serious moxie!

Starbuck_II
2004-07-08, 02:07 PM
Well said Callista. I rolled my Sense Motrive and got a natural 18 so i'm guessing with my +2 wisdom bonus thats a 20.
Is that enough?
On a side note: Callista was my favorite person turned god in the show Hercules and Xena.
She was ruthless, had a sense of humor, and a lot like the little halfling Belkar in violence.

Anyway, those are good argument points.
What spell did Elan cast?

The Giant
2004-07-08, 03:35 PM
Prestidigitation.

Grey Watcher
2004-07-08, 05:29 PM
Any theories on Banjo's new appearence? Maybe the Mind Flayer did more with Elan than play scrabble.

And as far as the Girdle of Gender goes, I think we (the fanse) have spent so much time building up a spectacular appetite for the resolution to that, that the Giant might actually be a little intimidated to use it again.! ;D

ShadowDragon8685
2004-07-08, 06:51 PM
I think Helgya's CN, not CE.

mossfoot
2004-07-08, 07:48 PM
I think Helgya's CN, not CE.

I dunno. If we assume that Helgya's husband was a basically decent dwarf, how could you reconsile the (apparantly multiple) attempts to murder him? Just because she didn't succeed?

One doesn't have to be Darth Vader (OLD school DV, yo!) evil to be concidered of evil alignment.

And how's THIS for screwing with your emotions: Durkon, after long and painful introspection, finally decides "Ach, t' hades with it, I love her!" and decides to be with her anyways.

BUUUUT, the whole "Chaotic evil" thing ends up becoming a major problem for him.

So, he puts a Helm of Alignment (or some similar change) on her. Problem solved! Now she's Lawful Good.

Except now she wants to go back to her husband because it's her duty, and they can never be together again ;D

Grey Watcher
2004-07-08, 10:06 PM
And how's THIS for screwing with your emotions: Durkon, after long and painful introspection, finally decides "Ach, t' hades with it, I love her!" and decides to be with her anyways.

It could also happen that, having been spurned, she's too proud and hurt to get back together. So then HE gets his heart broken!

Of course, as we speak, each of these plotlines gets axed, so who knows what will happen? ;D

Duskrider_Moogle
2004-07-08, 10:25 PM
I'm going to do a 2nd-edition PlaneScape cop-out and peg Helgya as "Chaotic Neutral-Evil".

That said. I hope she's OK...she seems like she's compotent, but it's still not good for ANY adventurer to be alone in a dungeon :o

oh, and Banjulthu = beautiful!

But what would Roy say "for the love of"...? Since he is apparently agnostic.

"for the love of Sun Tzu", maybe?

mossfoot
2004-07-09, 03:54 AM
Of course, as we speak, each of these plotlines gets axed, so who knows what will happen? ;D

Naw, I find that generally the audience guesses wrong in the first place on things like this, and even when they guess right there are so many other opposing theories out there there is no real need to change the original plan. ;)

Callista
2004-07-09, 08:37 AM
If 's going to be awakened by dark priests in aeons to come - the dark priests first have to know about him. Since the cult had about 3 worshippers at its peak time, it's quite unlikely that there'll be a dark cult forming in the future - because simply no one knows about Banjuhlu (and his powers are -and have always been- too meager to attract any new worshippers).

Are we forgetting that odd plane called "Real Life"? Banjo has a surprising number of worshippers there... ;D probably because many perceive the gods of that plane have very little to do with daily life, and even zapping Roy's head can be impressive.

Maybe Roy was gonna say something like, "Oh, for the love of Pete"--only some D&D equivalent. Did any of the gods have notable disciples? :)

(And if anybody starts a religious debate, they will surely bring the wrath of The Giant down upon them!)

GypsyThorn
2004-07-09, 12:59 PM
Are we forgetting that odd plane called "Real Life"? Banjo has a surprising number of worshippers there... ;D probably because many perceive the gods of that plane have very little to do with daily life, and even zapping Roy's head can be impressive.
....

Actually, the followers of Banjo in that thread have mostly turned inward and have started worshipping each other in a sort of narcissistic frenzy. Typical chaotic congregation...

Nim
2004-07-09, 06:19 PM
Narcissitic frenzy? How dare you insult the Faith of the Dessert so?! You shall be punished for thy words by the Orthodox Sect!

(No! Think: Neutral GOOD, Neutral GOOD, Neutral GOOD!)

TheChris
2004-07-10, 03:20 AM
"Typical chaotic congregation..." HOW DARE YOU!? Behold the wrath of the goddess is upon you for your heretical ways! You will bow before your end comes! You will eat the pudding, you will like it and you will ask for more!

Only due to your disturbing lack of faith, it shall be denied and you shall have to spend your afterlife walking the land without a deity to care for you!

Duskrider_Moogle
2004-07-11, 11:20 PM
So how is Elan gonna hold up his end of the "double-burnt-offerings back" guarantee? Say that since it was just a verbal contract, he doesn't have any obligation? Tell her to take it up with Banjo himself? Steal her stuff and give it back to her? Something else, to be determine in like 30 minutes from now?

ShadowDragon8685
2004-07-12, 12:24 AM
Well, she didn't MAKE any Burnt Offerings, so she gets 2*0=0 burnt offerings back.

He does, however, owe Belkar two kids.

Lilly
2004-07-12, 12:37 AM
And Lo.... we have completed our quest... for the bathrooms.

Edit: Woo! I get a page!

Terandir
2004-07-12, 01:09 AM
So now we're getting somewhere. Most interesting, me thinks, is: Which door will Vaarsuvius choose? ::)

Greetings,
Terandir

mossfoot
2004-07-12, 08:07 AM
Not that it's going to happen, but I remember Stephen King talking about a story idea (which he had to abandon because he couldn't find a way to end it) in which people kept going into an airport washroom and never came out. Passengers, then security, then professional investigators, then the national guard, but nobody came out. It was a good setup, but he just never found a way to give it a good ending.

Invariel
2004-07-12, 09:56 AM
I think the only appropriate ending would be for the author of the book to go into the bathroom, and never come out. (Don't get me wrong, I like Stephen King's work.)

As for the comic, there still has yet to be a day where I'm not impressed.

Nareth
2004-07-12, 11:20 AM
How sad, the mighty Giant reduced to toilet humor....

Funny, funny stuff Giant :) Thank you again for making my day a little better

Vik
2004-07-12, 12:50 PM
Yeah this one was great ! ;D
Reminded me a very interesting conversation about ... uh ... this stuff while dungeon-crawling (I guess lotta dnd players had this kind of conversation). By the way, it's the same thing in 24 : J.Bauer seems to have a bladder of holding ::)

GypsyThorn
2004-07-12, 01:47 PM
I do have to say that our regular D&D games occasionally do rise to the level of the gutter.

In any case, I know it wasn't explicitly stated way back in the '70s, but wasn't the purpose of the gelatinous cube to take care of these problems? And how about those empty rooms? Shouldn't it be the goal of the compulsive adventurer to fill them?

Finally, let's think about the role of bathrooms in traditional fiction/film/television. Bathrooms have NEVER been in a narrative except to further the plot. Think of the movie "Godfather" (part 1). The bathroom had to be there for the gun to be in the toilet. "Harry Potter" (forgot which one) where the troll needed a hiding place. Any number of spy/cop movies/TV shows where the hero/villian escapes through the window in the toilet. An episode of "West Wing" from last year where the kidnapping takes place in the bathroom. "Something About Mary" where the highly anticipated date is cut short. Anyone think of any others? I'm sure there's quite a few.

All of these scenarios include bathrooms only because they were needed to advance the plot. In OOTS, we have the very first fictional story where a toilet was included for its functional purpose.

Congratulations, Rich.

Starbuck_II
2004-07-12, 01:52 PM
Actually Hermione was actually going to the bathroom when the troll came.
Same with her meeting Myrtule (I spelled wrong I think) the ghost in another bathroom.
But usually you are right, no one uses Tiolet much lol.

Alarra
2004-07-12, 02:12 PM
Actually, no Hermione wasn't. She was in there crying because she was upset because Ron said that nobody liked her.

Starbuck_II
2004-07-12, 02:58 PM
Actually, no Hermione wasn't. She was in there crying because she was upset because Ron said that nobody liked her.

I'll take your word for it.(i can't remember). Well no one did liked Hermoine she was a know it all :P

Everyone knows V is a She

Mizkyu
2004-07-12, 03:10 PM
Everyone knows V is a She

V is V. V is a V. Zi is V. V's a zi!


..yeah. That's the only reason V's annoyed ;)

Grey Watcher
2004-07-12, 09:31 PM
I do have to say that our regular D&D games occasionally do rise to the level of the gutter.

In any case, I know it wasn't explicitly stated way back in the '70s, but wasn't the purpose of the gelatinous cube to take care of these problems? And how about those empty rooms? Shouldn't it be the goal of the compulsive adventurer to fill them?

Finally, let's think about the role of bathrooms in traditional fiction/film/television. Bathrooms have NEVER been in a narrative except to further the plot. Think of the movie "Godfather" (part 1). The bathroom had to be there for the gun to be in the toilet. "Harry Potter" (forgot which one) where the troll needed a hiding place. Any number of spy/cop movies/TV shows where the hero/villian escapes through the window in the toilet. An episode of "West Wing" from last year where the kidnapping takes place in the bathroom. "Something About Mary" where the highly anticipated date is cut short. Anyone think of any others? I'm sure there's quite a few.

All of these scenarios include bathrooms only because they were needed to advance the plot. In OOTS, we have the very first fictional story where a toilet was included for its functional purpose.

Congratulations, Rich.




Not necessarily, toilets serve their intended function in such places as Babylon 5 and The Simpsons ("I've been sittin' on the toilet, all the live long day!")

The Giant
2004-07-12, 09:46 PM
"For Pak'ma'ra Use ONLY."

Grey Watcher
2004-07-12, 10:02 PM
As off-topic as this is, it is fun to note that one of hte langages you see on the signs in the bathroom is apparently Vorlon! :o

dktsang
2004-07-12, 10:54 PM
I've been wondering this for a long time: why would anyone trust a room labeled "Men's" (or Women's) in a dungeon for even half a second? Unless there's some Code that dungeon-builders and dungeon-maintainers must follow that says you're not allowed to trap them in any way...

(aside: anyone read "The Kobayashi Maru", by Julia Ecklar? Looks like you can download it in Microsoft E-Book form from Amazon for $3, or download James Doohan reading it from Audible.com for about $8...)

Lilly
2004-07-12, 11:22 PM
I've been wondering this for a long time: why would anyone trust a room labeled "Men's" (or Women's) in a dungeon for even half a second? Unless there's some Code that dungeon-builders and dungeon-maintainers must follow that says you're not allowed to trap them in any way...



They have to pee soooooo bad that they really do not care weather or not it's trapped. It's the same as with porta-potties, at some point you stop caring.

And anyways, the dungeon wasn't built by xykon, he probably wouldn't bother trapping them. Anyways, minions gotta go to!

Edit: Yay another page for me.

Shadeogrey
2004-07-13, 03:46 AM
As off-topic as this is, it is fun to note that one of hte langages you see on the signs in the bathroom is apparently Vorlon! :o
...
...
...
Yes.
...

Ferret_Dragon
2004-07-13, 08:37 AM
Trapped toilets...

There is a dungeon where a mimic hides out in the toilet...

GypsyThorn
2004-07-13, 10:50 AM
In every single dungeon I've ran in that ever had a chamber pot, outhouse, or poop pit, the party absolutely, positively had to thoroughly investigate the scene. I have to wonder how this might have affected our ability to sneak up on creatures that had any sense of smell whatsoever.

lartinger
2004-07-13, 11:29 AM
That mimic was in the upper levels of Rappan Athuk (spelling?). It was in the "toilet" so long it had mutated into a sort of "dung-monster" that was basically unstoppable. Our party's solution -- it chased them to an underground river and the druid softened the ground on the shore underneath it, sliding it into the fast moving current, and effectively flushing it to the lower levels of the dungeon!

Now back to our regularly scheduled topic. :)

davericsdamsel
2004-07-13, 07:08 PM
So now we're getting somewhere. Most interesting, me thinks, is: Which door will Vaarsuvius choose? ::)

Greetings,
Terandir

well, based on the universal symbol for wearing a dress - the one on the left.
Too bad there wasn't a third door for dwarves

tee hee

Lord_Nathanel
2004-07-14, 12:51 AM
Eeh gods! Thursday before I see what's gonna happen, I don't think I can hold it that long :o

Mizkyu
2004-07-14, 08:08 AM
That assumes V even needs the loo, of course ;)

Ascaron
2004-07-14, 09:38 AM
again elan was the best :)

I hope for the soon revenge of the great "banjuhlu" :D

ahem and to the whole vaasavius thing... of course he's a guy, because ron entitled him "mr.V"! some pages ago!

JD
2004-07-14, 10:07 AM
Well, I haven't seen any of the party members drink yet, nor eat (not counting the T-shirts). So why would Belkar need to go to the bathroom (Drugs in stomach comes to mind)?

Durkon is better off now, although I find his personality to unappealing for my taste

Starbuck_II
2004-07-14, 10:12 AM
Maybe Belkar ate and drunk the Kobold: that would be a liquid and food...

Did he just cut him up or did he eat him?

Nighthawk4
2004-07-14, 02:37 PM
Just a thought - I DO hope that the aim of this whole quest was not just to find the, er...... amenities >:(


Please, please, Giant - let the quest continue. Please say this is just a comfort break. ;)

Nim
2004-07-14, 03:15 PM
Why, naturally it's just a comfort break. But it's a comfort break . . . OF DOOM!!!

Terandir
2004-07-14, 05:02 PM
ahem and to the whole vaasavius thing... of course he's a guy, because ron entitled him "mr.V"! some pages ago!

Ever read the FAQ of this page?

I may quote...

"Keep in mind that while certain other characters might refer to V as being male or female, that simply reveals their perception—not the actual reality of the situation."

So the mistery remains... ;)

Greetings,
Terandir

evileeyore
2004-07-14, 09:12 PM
Just a thought - I DO hope that the aim of this whole quest was not just to find the, er...... amenities >:(


Please, please, Giant - let the quest continue. Please say this is just a comfort break. ;)

You'ld think you people have never seen a side quest before!

--EvilE

Ashlock
2004-07-15, 12:00 AM
Giant, this latest episode (#87) is one of the best. You really crammed a whole bunch of goodies in this one! ;D

ShadowDragon8685
2004-07-15, 12:06 AM
I know what V is like!

V is the ultimate heartthrob!

Guys can think V is a female with little chest but beautiful and sweet (and a firebrand)

Gay guys can think V is a bishie boy,
Straight girls can think V is a bishie boy,

And gay girls can think V is a female with little chest but beautiful and sweet (and a firebrand.)

Congratulations, Giant. You've created someone to get EVERY fanboi/girl going over. Does that make you kinda feel proud?

Personally, I think V is a guy, mostly because of how, during the Chimera arc, when V was complaining that his mind was aflame with all these spells he wanted to unleash, then Haley and the blueblunder squad come running in with the Chimera on their heels, Roy says "It's all you, dog."

By the way - Can we have the 3.5 D&D stats for Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion?

Lilly
2004-07-15, 12:20 AM
So we remain in eternal uncertanity: Camel or Dromadry?

Matuse
2004-07-15, 02:17 AM
Let's see, left to right:

Human, Orc, Pixie, Green Hag, Drow, Succubus, Stoned Half Orc, Medusa who stoned the Half Orc, Harpy, Marilith Demon.

Musrum
2004-07-15, 02:57 AM
You missed one.

Between the Drow and the Succubus.

Hard to tell what she is though...

Matuse
2004-07-15, 05:09 AM
You mean the blue tentacled thing in the stall?

Far too impossible to guess at what that might be. Could be arms, could be limb buds, could be hair, could be tentacles, could be the special effects of a "wipe" spell....

Bogotter
2004-07-15, 05:27 AM
I was hoping the hag was put in their as a tribute to my Annis! (joke from the boards....long ago)

Anyway.....today's strip was awesome Giant.


Nice SNL Pat reference with V not going to either bathroom. Next thing we know he/she will be dating someone named Chris!

bor
2004-07-15, 06:47 AM
Let's see, left to right:

Human, Orc, Pixie, Green Hag, Drow, Succubus, Stoned Half Orc, Medusa who stoned the Half Orc, Harpy, Marilith Demon.



HI Y'all
new to this board, but been a lurker for some time..

First of; Giant, great stuff!

Second: I don't think we're talking orc here, but goblins (see avatar).
So strictly speaking we're also talking half-goblin (novelty of The Giant?). It seems that the goblinoids have stronger genes than humanoids, as the racial characteristics of this half-breed tend more towards her goblin origin (notice her fangs, her pointy-ears (or horns?), her trippled feet) than her human heritage (just a nice haircut).

btw - did anyone notice that but for Haley, Ron & Belkar everyone walks barefoot? Does this imply anything special regarding the footwear of these three forementioned characters? (I also refer to #3)

Musrum
2004-07-15, 08:12 AM
Nice SNL Pat reference with V not going to either bathroom. Next thing we know he/she will be dating someone named Chris!
A horrible frustrating plot twist would be for the big V to get zapped by Elan's belt. And for the audience to still not know what gender she/he is (or was).

Meroim
2004-07-15, 08:59 AM
Hi there, first time poster here.

I want to thank Rich for making my co-workers think I'm a loon.

The strip (#87) made me laugh *that* hard.

Just my 2 cents re: Vaarsuvius. She's a she. Her conversation with Haley about the lime green boots of speed was the dead givaway!

PS: Marilith demons will always be "Type V" demons to me. ('cause I'm old)

The Giant
2004-07-15, 10:06 AM
btw - did anyone notice that but for Haley, Ron & Belkar everyone walks barefoot? Does this imply anything special regarding the footwear of these three forementioned characters? (I also refer to #3)

Belkar IS barefoot--those are his hairy halfling feet you're seeing there. And Elan, Durkon, and V aren't actually barefoot, I just don't draw their shoes in any detail, because it would make the character design too busy.

Starbuck_II
2004-07-15, 10:27 AM
Lazy lol

But great comic, V is Metrosexual. He watches Queer guy for the Straight guy.

See and that would explain him talking about "lime green boots of speed ". I mean metros are weirdish, so its entirely possible.

All respectable Halfings/Hobbits wear no shoes.
And its true woman's bathroom's have lines alot. 8)

Ashlock
2004-07-15, 10:32 AM
Poor V. Poor guy, so misunderstood. He was established as a "he" long, long ago now.

Mizkyu
2004-07-15, 12:33 PM
Second: I don't think we're talking orc here, but goblins (see avatar).
So strictly speaking we're also talking half-goblin (novelty of The Giant?). It seems that the goblinoids have stronger genes than humanoids, as the racial characteristics of this half-breed tend more towards her goblin origin (notice her fangs, her pointy-ears (or horns?), her trippled feet) than her human heritage (just a nice haircut).

Alternatively, it could just be a female goblin. :)

Calyn
2004-07-15, 01:19 PM
You can't claim the boots are a giveaway for V to be a girl, because V could just as easily be gay or metro, as posted above.

Moreover, V is an elf, and we all know elves are all a bit fruity to begin with.

Maybe V is some sort of weird asexual elven thingamabob? Neither man, nor woman! He/she gave up his/her gender to obtain Ultimate cosmic power!

GypsyThorn
2004-07-15, 02:01 PM
Re: V's gender

I used to have the same problem figuring out the sex of pancakes, until I realized you could tell by the way they were stacked....

(Sorry, sometimes I can't help myself.)

Nim
2004-07-15, 02:45 PM
Hm . . . ultimate arcane power . . . Ya know, it seems to me (although maybe I'm wrong) that the debate of V's gender started sometime after the doily incident. Perhaps the discovery of ultimate arcane power stripped V of xis (either-gender pronoun) gender, transforming xer (another either-gender pronoun) into an asexual being.

For those of you wondering about those pronouns:
he, his, him
she, her, her
xe, xis, xer

Matuse
2004-07-15, 02:46 PM
PS: Marilith demons will always be "Type V" demons to me. ('cause I'm old)

Well, I figured that if I said Type V, people wouldn't understand. Plus, if you look at the heading for the Monster Manual, after it lists the Type for each of the greater demon types that can possess a name, it lists several of them. The first for the Type Vs is Marilith. I've always prefered to use those names vs the types...type just doesn't carry enough emotive depth.

Nim
2004-07-15, 02:47 PM
Oh, hey, I just discovered that apparently the succubus and my avatar get their clothes at the same place.

The Giant
2004-07-15, 02:54 PM
Yeah, they both shop at "It's 11:30 and Rich Hasn't Finished the Strip Yet". ;)

Nim
2004-07-15, 02:58 PM
That sounds trendy. I wonder if they have a store in Harvard Square . . .

Tzor
2004-07-15, 03:09 PM
It was at that moment, The Giant realized that his real goal in life was not to be a game designer but a fashion designer. One day, he thought, he would become more famous than Izod, more popularly recognized than Nike, and a whole lot easier to pronounce than Calvin Klien.

GypsyThorn
2004-07-15, 05:27 PM
I just realized a gap in my knowledge. How did men in full armor handle the problems of elimination? I don't think Number one should be a problem, as long as they're careful maintaining the gap in the process. Number two might be more difficult. Was there something like long johns - a panel that came off easily - or was it a process that involved the participation of their trusty squires? I'm really wondering...

In any case, in the fantasy world, the male fighters would have this problem, but the female fighters would be a lot better off. For heaven's sake, all they have are a couple of bowls and a chain mail bikini bottom. And for that, they get +10 to their AC? Doesn't seem fair, but that's the way it is.

And, if this is the case, then the lines in the bathrooms should be evened up a bit. Given the women take a bit longer (or a lot longer, if they're married to me). But the men have a lot more they have to take off and hang on those hooks in the stalls.

But what it all boils down to is that bathroom breaks proceed at the speed of plot. (or plop?)

Nim
2004-07-15, 05:56 PM
They APPEAR at the speed of plot, as well.

davericsdamsel
2004-07-15, 06:47 PM
I just realized a gap in my knowledge. How did men in full armor handle the problems of elimination? I don't think Number one should be a problem, - a panel that came off easily -

i think the word you are searching for is codpiece. (at least for as you put it #1)

and just for fun

http://www.thehendricks.net/codpiece_history.htm

Starbuck_II
2004-07-15, 07:48 PM
Thank you Damsel, that was a great lesson in history on that link.
Everyone should read it, because You need to know!
(Little Star flys by like on tv)

Mizkyu
2004-07-15, 08:09 PM
You can't claim the boots are a giveaway for V to be a girl, because V could just as easily be gay or metro, as posted above.

Moreover, V is an elf, and we all know elves are all a bit fruity to begin with.

Maybe V is some sort of weird asexual elven thingamabob? Neither man, nor woman! He/she gave up his/her gender to obtain Ultimate cosmic power!


I'm not so sure. I mean, if V had already obtained the ultimate cosmic power, would zi still be adventuring with Roy et al? I think not ;)

I think V's more the type of person who's searching for the ultimate cosmic power (and has discovered a route through the doilies, but is it yet to unlock the precise details), but is interested only in the ultimate cosmic power. So little things like gender sort of fall by the wayside, to the point that if zi ever were to don Elan's belt of gender change for some reason, zi wouldn't notice until zi needed the loo ;)

On top of that, if shedding mortal boundaries (including gender) were required to achieve ultimate cosmic power... V wouldn't have any problems with that either. :)


..Yeah. I spend far too much time thinking about this strip. The sigline says it all... :o




In any case, in the fantasy world, the male fighters would have this problem, but the female fighters would be a lot better off. For heaven's sake, all they have are a couple of bowls and a chain mail bikini bottom. And for that, they get +10 to their AC? Doesn't seem fair, but that's the way it is.



Ah, so that's why the fantasy genre is so full of chainmail bikinis. And here I was, thinking it was all due to undersexed males.. ::)

ShadowDragon8685
2004-07-16, 01:51 AM
A little from collum A, a little from collum B...



I think V is a He.

See again, the "It's all you, dog" strip, and the evil smirk. :)

Shadeogrey
2004-07-16, 04:36 AM
Seeing the "clank clank" happening in the cubicle with Durkon reminds me of this old movie about Sir Gawain.

Anyone else watched it?

Gawain was a new knight putting on his armour, and he asked someone (his squire?) what he should do if he needed 'to go'.
And the squire promptly produced a litte device that looked like a can opener..

That's gotta hurt!!!

Bogotter
2004-07-16, 05:44 AM
A little from collum A, a little from collum B...



Collum.....Collum.......my precious!

Sorry couldn't help myself.

;D

Callista
2004-07-16, 11:38 AM
I can't beleive no one's mentioned the piece of toilet paper stuck to Durkon's foot yet...

Grey Watcher
2004-07-16, 12:31 PM
We're all being polite and hoping he'll notice it on his own. ;D

Quantum_Alchemist
2004-07-17, 04:29 AM
I suspect the 'stoned half orc' is a caryatid column!

Matuse
2004-07-17, 01:13 PM
Would have a sword, not an axe..and I don't think that the column is a 3E import...would have been in the pit with the flumphs ;)

David
2004-07-17, 03:47 PM
Hello...

This is my first post and i quite impressed by the quality of this comic strip.

It's amazing... i'm waiting to finally see the dark monster who is the right hand of the evil lich.

I have just one question:
Don't female dwarves have beards just like the males?

I always supported this point, because that's why you never find the females... they're so alike her males partners.

For those who saw the movie... remember the quote of the dwarf: "you don't need a slim elf... you must have a female dwarf to pull her beards...". Well, or something like that

David

Starbuck_II
2004-07-17, 05:21 PM
I believe the words were closer to:
"Ya dun want a thin little elven woman, you want a dwarven one with a beard you can pull on!" ;D

I think that is it. Oh welcome David.

Nim
2004-07-17, 05:33 PM
Well, really, the question of whether female dwarves have beards depends on whom you ask. Some say no, others say yes. 'Tis a matter of personal preference. I prefer beardless, but really 'tis your choice.

evileeyore
2004-07-17, 10:09 PM
You can't claim the boots are a giveaway for V to be a girl, because V could just as easily be gay or metro, as posted above.

You can't claim V is anything other than what V is based on such flimsy arguements as boot color preference nor Doily Knowledge.

For instance I am all Man, however I have the power to crochet doilies.

Point 2: the quote


Haley:...so the Boots of Speed were totally powerful, but they were, like, lime green.

V: Indeed. A most grave conundrum you faced.

Sounds to me like the typical male blow off to a conversation way below his intellectual level. Atleast to me.

I know I have a 'special' ability to zone out most people's niose and respond with vaguely appropriate responses.

Just replace the typical male response of: "Uh-huh" "That's nice" and "Must have been serious" with "A most grave conundrum" and "The forces of the cosmos are mine to command, and yet you cannot comprehend the dark dismal end in store for you and your wicked compatriots. Nay! Your little brains can only leave you gasping in horror as I bend reality to my very will!

So you have it. No clear proof of V being a female, male, or anything in between.

Personally, I got 10 gold on V being an Elf.

--EvilE

Duskrider_Moogle
2004-07-17, 11:29 PM
Personally, I got 10 gold on V being an Elf.

--EvilE

Are you crazy? V is obviously a robot golem masquerading as an elf! Remember in comic #25+13i when he said "*beep* DESTROY" and then Thog revealed his miraculous ancestry about how he was really half-Dabus and therefore doesn't need a spell or anything to fly.

Duh.

Quantum_Alchemist
2004-07-18, 12:32 PM
True, it would have been a sword instead...

But no, the Caryatid Column (as well as many other worthies, such as the Crypt Thing, Dark Ones, Digester, Demoands, and more!) were saved from the Flumph Pit by the 3e Fiend Folio.

...and, may I note, the caryatid columns are heinous. CR 6 my lily-white ***.

Matuse
2004-07-18, 03:58 PM
The other issue would be: Why would a golem need to use the bathroom?

So, Giant...any confirmation on what that one is?

evileeyore
2004-07-18, 05:52 PM
Are you crazy? V is obviously a robot golem masquerading as an elf! Remember in comic #25+13i when he said "*beep* DESTROY" and then Thog revealed his miraculous ancestry about how he was really half-Dabus and therefore doesn't need a spell or anything to fly.

Duh.

Hmmm, you might be on to something there.

I do recall seeing V mumbling "EX-TER-MI-NATE" in V's trancing...

Hmmm.

--EvilE

The Giant
2004-07-18, 07:41 PM
So, Giant...any confirmation on what that one is?


It's a goblin who was standing facing the medusa. Do the math. ;)

Alarra
2004-07-18, 11:48 PM
Tee hee....love the newest comic, quite funny!

Grey Watcher
2004-07-19, 12:06 AM
Clinches that Roy's father was indeed a wizard by training, which would be why he wanted Roy to go to Wizard school. After all, my father wanted me to be an engineer, though he seems to have grudgingly accepted that I'm an actor. So yeah, I understand.

And I love the idea of discount-quality magical items. Still, I have a feeling the spell wil either fail shortly, or the Giant will have to come up with some way to show us invisible people. Of course, an episode or two from Xykon et al's perspective might help him work around that.

Lilly
2004-07-19, 12:16 AM
It's great! Can't someone carry Belkar or Durkon on their shoulders so alieveate some of the space and well groping problems?

(singing) Haley and Elan sittin' in a tree....

Edit: I'm gooood. Another page for me.

Grey Watcher
2004-07-19, 12:28 AM
It looks like they DID put him up on their shoulders. And I don't want to think about hoisting a plate armored dwarf on my shoulders.

Nighthawk4
2004-07-19, 05:03 AM
A cheap discounted spell is obviously going to fail at the most inconvenient moment, I think.

I love the reasoning - Roy says that Haley and Belkar will probably complain - so he has no objection at all.

Great lines again. Very funny.

Rhia
2004-07-19, 09:37 AM
;D

If I were in that sphere, Elan is not the one I'd be groping. ;)

Starbuck_II
2004-07-19, 10:16 AM
;D

If I were in that sphere, Elan is not the one I'd be groping. ;)

You're groping Belkar aren't you? You like the wee little folk. ;D
But I think Haley and Elan make a good couple, I mean Bards and rogues do get along well 8)

Duskrider_Moogle
2004-07-19, 10:17 AM
And I love the idea of discount-quality magical items. Still, I have a feeling the spell wil either fail shortly, or the Giant will have to come up with some way to show us invisible people. Of course, an episode or two from Xykon et al's perspective might help him work around that.

Easiest way to do that would be a running clank-clank-clank-clank-"Ow! Stoppit!"-*noises of discomfort*-clank-clank...

and two very confused goblins.

I don't think the spell'll malfunction...more likely it'll fail to Belkar's violent nature and D&D's "If you attack you break the spell" clause.

Tarlonniel
2004-07-19, 11:44 AM
Elan would be my choice ;D If anyone tries to grope Haley, I bet they lose an arm...

Mizkyu
2004-07-19, 01:47 PM
;D

If I were in that sphere, Elan is not the one I'd be groping. ;)


I'm with Rhia on this one, though something tells me we'd be in disagreement as to who gets groped :-X

David
2004-07-19, 01:51 PM
I believe that the discount spell will have shorter duration... than expected.

If the master giant needs a translator to my native tongue: castilian. I offer myself to the task

For those who ask what castilian is... it's one of the 4 languages spoken in Spain (the most common), along with: gallician, euskera and catalá. It's often refered as spanish, but that's a common mistake... as spanish is the name of the people of Spain.
I also believe that are some regions in the north where some peoble still speaks gaelic.

David

Tzor
2004-07-19, 02:16 PM
When I was a young lad in the US (circa late 70's) they used to call it "Castailian Spanish" in order to distinguish it from the "Spanish" native to the Americas, for example Mexico. It's somewhat like the differences between American English and British English just different enough to be downright annoying.

Chaotic_Wun
2004-07-19, 06:14 PM
Since they need to be squashed in such a small amount of space, how about Elan's banjo, or hand, or puppet, or something else of his sticking outside the sphere, seeming to float along in midair?

Lord_Nathanel
2004-07-19, 07:31 PM
Hey yeah! That might land ol' Banjo a few more worshippers if they play their cards right. ;D

Matuse
2004-07-19, 08:10 PM
Apparently that 18 Charisma is worth a lot under the hood.

erbrooks
2004-07-19, 08:51 PM
I'm surprised nobody noticed this -- according to Elan, V is male.

"Unless he's half dromedary..."

Nim
2004-07-19, 08:54 PM
And you think what Elan says has any bearing on the truth? Where'd you leave your comic archives and FAQ? Go read those again.

Chaotic_Wun
2004-07-19, 09:05 PM
V is supposed to be female? I always considered him to be male, and no, I never read the FAQ.

Nim
2004-07-19, 09:07 PM
Well, here's a quote from it:
Q: Is Vaarsuvius male or female?
A: I will never reveal the truth! Bwahaha! Keep in mind that while certain other characters might refer to V as being male or female, that simply reveals their perception—not the actual reality of the situation.

Chaotic_Wun
2004-07-19, 09:13 PM
I see, well thanks for clearing that up. ;)

I'll just call V an 'it' from now on.

Nim
2004-07-19, 09:15 PM
Actually, the proper word is "xe".
xe, xer, xis
he, him, his
she, her, her(s)

Chaotic_Wun
2004-07-19, 09:58 PM
What about 'shim' or 'herm'?

mossfoot
2004-07-20, 07:23 AM
Actually, the proper word is "xe".
xe, xer, xis
he, him, his
she, her, her(s)


You know, if we ever encouter tri-sexual or a-sexual aliens... that could actually come in useful ;)

Tarlonniel
2004-07-20, 12:08 PM
V, V, V's

Works for me ;)

Scorpina
2004-07-20, 12:15 PM
Hang about there, even if other characters are wrong about V's gender, why doesn't he/she/it/xe correct them? I mean, if people thought I was a guy I'd punch them. Hard....

Vik
2004-07-20, 12:36 PM
V simply doesn't care. V is above all these annoying differences, the only thing that matter is magic - spells, magical items, XP to gain more magic power.

The Giant
2004-07-20, 01:52 PM
Hang about there, even if other characters are wrong about V's gender, why doesn't he/she/it/xe correct them? I mean, if people thought I was a guy I'd punch them. Hard....

Careful examination will reveal that no one has made reference to their belief of V's gender in V's presence (except for one strip, and V was deep in meditation at the time).

Duskrider_Moogle
2004-07-20, 03:07 PM
Actually, the proper word is "xe".
xe, xer, xis
he, him, his
she, her, her(s)

In this case, I think "ve, ver, vis" would be appropriaetupo.

Starbuck_II
2004-07-20, 03:18 PM
Hang about there, even if other characters are wrong about V's gender, why doesn't he/she/it/xe correct them? I mean, if people thought I was a guy I'd punch them. Hard....

You aren't? Just joking ;D

I agree with "ve, ver, vis" being most correct.

Nim
2004-07-20, 06:37 PM
D'oh, I shouldah figured that out. ::) Actually the x was based on the idea of x being a variable.

If we encounter asexual aliens, we can just call them "it".

Grey Watcher
2004-07-20, 11:05 PM
If we encounter asexual aliens, we can just call them "it".

I was always under the impression that using "it" for sentient life forms was a bit of a put down. After all, "it" is generally used for objects, and is usually only applied to animals when said animal is of little emotional value. Using "it" to refer to sentients seems to me to be tacitly saying that the person is of little more value than an object.

Chaotic_Wun
2004-07-21, 01:14 AM
Well, maybe they don't have genders. Maybe they just screw themselves to have children.

ShadowDragon8685
2004-07-21, 04:37 AM
Let's just hope when they try to translate their own personal pronouns into our hideiously backwards english, they don'y come up with "She-he-it"

:)

Starbuck_II
2004-07-21, 11:42 AM
I was always under the impression that using "it" for sentient life forms was a bit of a put down. After all, "it" is generally used for objects, and is usually only applied to animals when said animal is of little emotional value. Using "it" to refer to sentients seems to me to be tacitly saying that the person is of little more value than an object.

On second thought in Spanish you use male pronoun for gender neutral things. If its not female or male you use El.
So maybe V would perfer a male pronoun?

Scorpina
2004-07-21, 12:37 PM
If we encounter asexual aliens, we can just call them "it".

Won't that hurt their feelings? I mean, we don't want to offend them, in case they have some sort of death-ray capable of destroying the Earth...

Lord_Zaryn
2004-07-21, 03:28 PM
well it is better then a "whatever"...poor poor Gonzo.

Chaotic_Wun
2004-07-21, 03:59 PM
What about "thingies" and "thingers"?

By the way, what DO you call a transexual person? Is "shim" or "herm" an official name, or just a joke?

The Giant
2004-07-21, 04:24 PM
You address or refer to a transgendered person by the pronoun appropriate to the gender they have become. So a woman who becomes a man is "he/him/his".

Personal experience has shown that in regular conversation, these tend to be preceeded by a pause every time as you force yourself to use the right one. It's kind of difficult when you've known the person for years, too.

Lord_Nathanel
2004-07-21, 07:00 PM
You know, at first I thought a person placed their own personal conception based on their own gender. I thought he was a boy because I am a male. But that theory was shattered when my wife read the comics and I asked her what gender she thought V was and she said a boy. With that out the window, I no longer feel secure...hold me....

;D

Alarra
2004-07-21, 07:16 PM
I always thought V was a girl, until the thread last month where everyone was insisting V was a guy. Then I started thinking of V as a guy....now I'm just confused. =)

Chaotic_Wun
2004-07-21, 07:26 PM
I always considered V to be a guy.

Giant, I wasn't talking about people who went through a sex change; I'm talking about people who have sex organs from both genders fully developed at the same time.

mossfoot
2004-07-21, 07:57 PM
I believe you're refering to a hermaphordite, which isn't quite as clear cut as you might think.

http://users.southeast.net/~help/sexdiff.html